[02:27] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: good morning
[02:27] <robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: hi rick
[02:28] <rickspencer3> how was you weekend?
[02:32] <robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: good, I managed to annoy a lot of people with a compiz flood on Friday though.  I didn't realize launchpad likes to notify everyone of duplicate status (I think it shouldn't) and I merged 3 bug reports with 100 duplicates each.  Lots of angry email this morning :)
[02:33] <rickspencer3> heh
[02:33] <rickspencer3> sorry about that
[02:33] <rickspencer3> I've been working on pm-dashboard and quickly
[02:33] <robert_ancell_> It happens, it happened enough times with GNOME bugzilla :)
[02:33] <robert_ancell_> No more threading issues?
[02:34] <rickspencer3> I'm trying to figure out the "best" pattern for pygtk and uimanager
[02:34] <rickspencer3> no, that one issue that you found was the source of all my worries
[02:34] <rickspencer3> in terms of the design patter, I'm think that you can create a file for a widget you want to subclass, like a window
[02:35] <rickspencer3> and then create a .ui file with the UI definition with the exact same name (so MyWidge.py, MyWidge.ui) and write the code to load in the ui from the file
[02:36] <rickspencer3> that seems like the best system with current pygtk stuff, but it would be mean no using glade
[02:36] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[02:36] <robert_ancell_> I would think Glade would be a big help for fast development so we would want to use it at much as possible
[02:37] <robert_ancell_> There is an issue with subclassing though as Glade doesn't support it
[02:37] <rickspencer3> yeah, except you can only create a file that has windows and dialogs, and you can inherit
[02:37] <rickspencer3> right, no subclassing, and no designed just a decendent of say HBox
[02:37] <robert_ancell_> VB doesn't have subclassing right? That doesn't seem to be an issue for VB apps?
[02:38] <rickspencer3> VB does
[02:38] <rickspencer3> when you go Window->New WIndow, it create a sub class for form
[02:38] <robert_ancell_> How do you do it?  (I haven't used VB since Win3.1/95 days)
[02:39] <rickspencer3> you just use the "New Form" command, and it creates a form derived from the class Form
[02:39] <robert_ancell_> but what value is the form subclass you have created? Do you treat it differently from any other form?
[02:40] <rickspencer3> for one thing, it supports properties on itself without having to proxy them
[02:40] <rickspencer3> this is really important for things like Dialog, which have complex to use functions, like "run()" (or whatever it is)
[02:41] <rickspencer3> subclassing widgets let's you divide your code up into logical self-contained and reusable chungs
[02:41] <rickspencer3> chunks even
[02:42] <robert_ancell_> We could have a FooWindow class that copies all the method/property links on instanciation in Python.  It would have no runtime overhead however it wouldn't be instanceof(gtk.Window)
[02:43] <robert_ancell_> i.e. FooWindow.realize = window_instance_from_gtkbuilder.realize
[02:43] <rickspencer3> what does "realize" do?
[02:44] <robert_ancell_> Creates the X instances I think, just an example method that is on gtk.Widget
[02:45] <rickspencer3> so when you do self.function_pointer = self.instantiated_object.function_point ...
[02:45] <rickspencer3> self.function_pointer() will call self.instantiated_object.function_pointer() ?
[02:47] <robert_ancell_> Actually no it wont work because the method will get passed FooWindow instead of gtk.Window as the first value.  So it would have to be proxied.  We could automatically do the proxying though
[02:47] <robert_ancell_> Hmm.
[02:48] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: you mean autogen the proxying, that was kind of my plan for Dialog at least
[02:48] <rickspencer3> so I suppose we could use Glade  for Window and Dialog object, and create the code the way you say
[02:48] <rickspencer3> but then you could create Widgets just in the XML
[02:49] <rickspencer3> like, you have to hand compose the xml for widgets
[02:49] <robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: yeah, it will be a bit crappy though.  I guess the problem is we want WYSIWYG designer but maximum code flexibility.  But that doesn't work right now for the standard case
[02:49] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[02:49] <rickspencer3> right
[02:49] <rickspencer3> Glade does not quite do what I think would be the best way for users
[02:49] <rickspencer3> I *think*
[02:49] <robert_ancell_> Hand composing XML is just evil.  I can't imagine opportunistic programmers really wanting to do that
[02:50] <rickspencer3> well, it's pretty much like writing HTML, but ...
[02:50] <rickspencer3> I agree it is suboptimcal
[02:50] <rickspencer3> however, creating Widgets would be a corner case for these guys anyway
[02:50] <robert_ancell_> How important is subclassing?  Especially for the type of user we want?  I mean, we don't expect them to write "software engineering" quality programs
[02:51] <rickspencer3> so if you think hand editing the XML is a non-starter for this user, then we'll have to just generate proxy classes like you say
[02:51] <rickspencer3> and making widgets directly could just be a less common task that unfortunately requires hand editing XML
[02:51] <robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: I don't have the market research to say but that would be my guess.  I mean I wouldn't bother if I had to write XML and it wouldn't be that hard for me to do it
[02:52] <rickspencer3> yeah
[02:52] <robert_ancell_> The "pygtk/glade" way is to make Glade files for all your static elements of your UI then write GTK+ for the dynamic stuff (which is annoying but the best solution I know of at the moment)
[02:52] <rickspencer3> so Glade support is more important than structuring the code in a way that would be natural for *me* personally
[02:53] <rickspencer3> right
[02:53] <robert_ancell_> agreed
[02:53] <rickspencer3> well, it looks like the docs think you should be using uimanager and using inline xml or xml in files
[02:53] <rickspencer3> for dynamic ui
[02:54] <rickspencer3> though there appears to be absolutely reams of boiler plate code for setting up the commands and hot keys and such
[02:54] <robert_ancell_> Are you talking about http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkUIManager.html?
[02:54] <rickspencer3> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-UIManager.html
[02:55] <robert_ancell_> I think UIManager is effectively obsolete now GtkBuilder exists.
[02:55] <rickspencer3> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtkuimanager.html
[02:55] <rickspencer3> oh
[02:55] <rickspencer3> that is not at all clear from the docs
[02:55] <rickspencer3> so gtkbuilder it is
[02:56] <robert_ancell_> It is kind of a proto-GtkBuilder.  It did things that Glade 1.x couldn't (like actions) but afaik GtkBuilder still supports this
[02:56] <rickspencer3> so how are you supposed to do actiongroups and all that crap?
[02:56] <rickspencer3> it's insanely tedious, and really hard to figure out how you are supposed to do it from the docs
[02:56] <robert_ancell_> I've always been a little confused why UIManager exists at all.  My guess is there were two development teams solving similar goals
[02:57] <robert_ancell_> In Glade
[02:57] <rickspencer3> I thought uimanager was a subclass of gtkbuilder, or implemented the same interface or something
[02:58]  * robert_ancell_ looking in Glade
[02:58] <robert_ancell_> Yeah, you can even add a GtkUIManager element from Glade.  To create an action you create an object like a button and then you can choose an action from it
[02:58] <rickspencer3> so I suppose that we would need to set up actiongroup and all that stuff in the generated file for the mainwindow
[02:58] <robert_ancell_> No it can all be in the XML file I think
[02:59] <rickspencer3> so you can define hot keys and such in the xml
[02:59] <rickspencer3> ?
[02:59] <robert_ancell_> (this is why I'm confused, GtkBuilder seems to have all the UIManager features yet no-one has deprecated UIManager)
[03:00] <rickspencer3> okay, I need to learn how to do this action stuff in Glade
[03:01] <robert_ancell_> I've made a button which I can attach accelerators to and linked it to an action
[03:01] <robert_ancell_> So that will all be expressed in the XML
[03:02] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: and then you can use gtkbuilder in your  code to a handle to the action and use that for the action of a widget you are creating on thef ly?
[03:02] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[03:02]  * robert_ancell lights his flaming torch to lead the crowd to burn down GtkUIManager...
[03:03] <rickspencer3> hehe
[03:03] <robert_ancell> yes, you can get the action from the GtkBuilder object and then use it for anything else you want
[03:03] <rickspencer3> I feel like I've been looking at the internet of the last two days just asking "can't you tell me how to do this simple thing", and I think it can't tell me
[03:04] <rickspencer3> it's like all the people who kindly contributed to this system never documented exactly how it was all supposed to work together
[03:04] <rickspencer3> so hopefully just bringing together the way you are *supposed* to this into one place will be a contribution
[03:04] <robert_ancell> This is where GTK+ does really bad - there never seems to have been a plan for what GTK+ does (well, it did fall out of GIMP development)
[03:05] <robert_ancell> And it looks like there may be more of a plan for GTK+ 3.0 but everyone is pretty skeptical based on previous direction
[03:06] <rickspencer3> k
[03:06] <rickspencer3> I'll dink with the ubuntu-project template tomorrow afternoon
[03:07] <robert_ancell> I'll try out the current code later as my idea of a "new developer" and give you some feedback
[03:07] <rickspencer3> feel free to provide your feedback in the form of patches
[03:07] <robert_ancell> :)
[03:07] <rickspencer3>  ;)
[03:08] <robert_ancell> I knocked off 40 bugs in compiz on Friday!! Only 600 to go!!
[03:08] <rickspencer3> nice
[03:08] <rickspencer3> at this rate you'll be done in 15 weeks
[03:08] <rickspencer3> :)
[03:08] <robert_ancell> I know.  I just don't like to extrapolate that much...
[03:09] <rickspencer3> 15 weeks isn't that long
[03:09] <rickspencer3> compiz! compiz!
[03:09] <robert_ancell> (yeah but I will be a raving lunatic after 15 weeks of that)
[03:09] <rickspencer3> heehe
[03:09] <robert_ancell> The next plan is once the list is in better shape to harness the masses to check which bugs are present in Jaunty
[03:09] <rickspencer3> right
[03:09] <rickspencer3> I'm sure you'll get good collaboration with that
[03:10] <robert_ancell> I'm *hoping* that a significant percentage will then be closed as "can't repeat"
[03:10] <rickspencer3> by knocked off, what do you mean?
[03:11] <robert_ancell> either duplicates, invalid or reassigned to xorg (driver issues)
[03:11] <rickspencer3> poor bryce
[03:11] <rickspencer3> ;)
[03:11] <robert_ancell> he asked me for them!
[03:12] <rickspencer3> so:
[03:12] <rickspencer3> 1. contain, not derive from, window and dialog. Autogen necessary proxying
[03:13] <rickspencer3> 2. gtkbuilder for dynamic ui generation
[03:13] <rickspencer3> 3. use action designer thing in glade
[03:13] <rickspencer3> 4. subclass from widget requires hand editing xml
[03:13] <rickspencer3> didrocks: ^^^^^
[03:13] <robert_ancell> 1. proxying, but only if required
[03:13] <rickspencer3> thanks robert_ancell, see you tomorrow morning
[03:14] <robert_ancell> 2. static UI?
[03:14] <robert_ancell> 3. yes
[03:14] <robert_ancell> 4. not sure, will have to see use case
[03:14] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: see you
[03:14] <rickspencer3> 2. static ui for windows and dialogs is glade
[03:15] <robert_ancell> gtkbuilder==glade
[03:15] <rickspencer3> but gtkbuilder is also a class in gtk
[03:15] <rickspencer3> you should use that class when creating UI on the fly, right?
[03:16] <robert_ancell> no, the GtkBuilder instance just contains all the widgets in the XML files you loaded
[03:16] <rickspencer3> (not gtk.uimanager, for example)
[03:16] <rickspencer3> so how do you create UI on the fly?
[03:16] <robert_ancell> custom_window = gtk.Window()
[03:16] <rickspencer3> surely not just with the DOM like way (my_label=gtk.Label() )
[03:16] <robert_ancell> custom_window.foo(), .blah()...
[03:17] <robert_ancell> oh yes!
[03:17] <rickspencer3> really? then what are all those functions for creating UI from xml strings  for?
[03:17] <robert_ancell> I guess you could do it that way too.
[03:17] <rickspencer3> (personally, I don't mind the DOM-like way of doing it, but it seems like it's been replaced with new stuff)
[03:17] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[03:17] <robert_ancell> Lets make some use cases and then try the different methods and pick what we think is the most appropriate
[03:17] <robert_ancell> (to recommend)
[03:18] <rickspencer3> right, but is *the* way you are *supposed* to do it?
[03:18] <rickspencer3> not recommend, choose
[03:18] <robert_ancell> the way you feel most comfortable with
[03:18] <robert_ancell> I've seen most code use the DOM method
[03:18] <rickspencer3> right
[03:18] <rickspencer3> me too, but that's because most code is old, I assumed
[03:19] <robert_ancell> There is a reasonable amount of overhead doing it the other way so I wouldn't expect developers to use GtkBuilder for dynamic stuff often
[03:19] <rickspencer3> I suppose one think is, that the DOM-like manner seems to be required for many things
[03:19] <robert_ancell> GtkBuilder is just serialisation without storing state
[03:19] <rickspencer3> like, you can't make a treeview without a million DOM like calls
[03:20] <robert_ancell> but you can make a .ui file with a treeview and use that
[03:20] <rickspencer3> it also provides a seperation of presention and logic
[03:20] <rickspencer3> don't you have to hand code columns and renderers and all?
[03:21] <robert_ancell> you can do a lot of that in GtkBuilder now (that's very new functionality that's been wanted for ages)
[03:21] <rickspencer3> son of a bitch, so you can
[03:22] <robert_ancell> (this is why i've been so eagerly uploading new Glade versions - I want these features!!!)
[03:23] <rickspencer3> huh
[03:23] <rickspencer3> I can't seem to find the treeview widget though, I'll have to dink with that a bit
[03:23] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: interesting you say that.  There was a bug about that the other day - it's definitely there though
[03:23] <robert_ancell> maybe it needs a new icon
[03:23] <rickspencer3> too bad you can't just design a treeview and load that <ui> </ui> into a sub class
[03:25] <rickspencer3> huh
[03:26] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I just added a VBox to a window, and then did "remove parent"
[03:26] <rickspencer3> and now I can edit just the vbox
[03:26] <robert_ancell> yes, you don't need toplevel windows in GtkBuilder
[03:26] <rickspencer3> will the file load?
[03:27] <rickspencer3> like, can I got gtkbuilder.load(that file)
[03:27] <robert_ancell> it doesn't appear to
[03:28] <rickspencer3> oh well
[03:28] <rickspencer3> I guess a  workaround would be that it could be contained in a window
[03:28] <rickspencer3> never mind
[03:28] <rickspencer3> off to non-work stuff!
[03:28] <rickspencer3> see you tomorrow morning
[03:28] <robert_ancell> later
[03:28] <rickspencer3> :)
[07:10] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[07:18] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[07:19] <pitti> hey ajmitch, hello TheMuso; had a good weekend?
[07:19] <TheMuso> Indeed.
[07:19] <ajmitch> yeah it wasn't too bad, expecting a bit of snow overnight though
[08:11] <huats> morning everyone
[08:13] <crevette> hello
[08:13] <crevette> good morning
[08:19] <didrocks> morning o/
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: hey !
[09:30] <seb128> didrocks: hello
[09:30] <huats> hello seb128 !
[09:30] <seb128> lut huats
[09:30] <didrocks> seb128: how was your week-end?
[09:30] <seb128> pretty relaxing and good but too short ;-)
[09:30] <mvo> hey seb128, didrocks and huats!
[09:30] <seb128> yours?
[09:30] <huats> hey mvo
[09:30] <pitti> hey seb128 *hug*
[09:30] <didrocks> hi mvo!
[09:30] <seb128> mvo: alter! ;-)
[09:30]  * mvo hugs the french gang :P
[09:30]  * seb128 hugs pitti, hello
[09:31] <asac> dobey: ok. please define how often it disconnects
[09:31]  * pitti hugs mvo, didrocks, and huats
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: full of ubuntu related stuff (ubuntu party meeting, quickly programming and gnome-python-desktop splitting :p)
[09:31] <pitti> and asac, too!
[09:31] <seb128> new GNOME today, everybody is ready? ;-)
[09:31]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[09:31] <pitti> hohoo
[09:31]  * pitti sharpens the sponsoring knife
[09:31] <mvo> seb128: let me know if you need sponsoring
[09:31] <huats> seb128: I am here for that !
[09:31] <seb128> I've a script building a versions table now
[09:31] <mvo> hey pitti and asac :)
[09:31] <seb128> mvo: will do thanks!
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: yelp is ready (bug 387195) :)
[09:31] <seb128> the script is slow though, I might rewrite part of it
[09:32]  * huats hugs pitti and asac too
[09:32] <asac> hi mvo
[09:32]  * asac hugs back
[09:32] <seb128> I'm calling rmadison for each package twice (one for debian one for ubuntu)
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: I have some code which parses Packages.gz, it's very quick
[09:33] <didrocks> seb128: hum, yes, rmadison is not very fast, so, your script might suffer :)
[09:33] <seb128> I had a previous script to look for merges which is using python-apt
[09:33] <asac> didrocks: does that yelp still use gecko?
[09:33] <seb128> but that requires to have a set of directory with sources.list config, index, etc
[09:34] <pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/sru-report does version comparison as well, and builds a version map from Packages.gz
[09:34] <didrocks> asac: yes, this release only remove glade. No mention to gecko
[09:34] <seb128> that's fast to run but annoying to configure
[09:34] <seb128> pitti: ok thanks
[09:34] <pitti> info = tagfiletodict('http://foo/Packages.gz')
[09:35] <pitti> version = info['package']
[09:35] <pitti> essentially
[09:37] <seb128> pitti: that seems an efficient way to do that ;-)
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: Sources.gz, of course
[09:38] <seb128> the other way is to use apt_pkg
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: you need the local sources for that, no?
[09:38] <seb128> but you have to maintain etc, var, etc directories and sources.list for each distro you want to track
[09:38] <seb128> pitti: local sources?
[09:38] <pitti> ah, right
[09:39] <seb128> you can tell apt to use ./karmic which has {etc,var}
[09:39] <seb128> etc
[09:39] <pitti> right, I think I did that in the past
[09:39] <pitti> but it's fairly complicated, as you said
[09:40] <seb128> my current code do some other not so great thing
[09:40] <mvo> I can make python-apt create those dirs if that is the thing that makes it complicated?
[09:41] <seb128> mvo: well, what would be nice would be able to magically get the apt index for a distro and work on it
[09:41] <seb128> without having to create the cache directories, write a sources.list, etc
[09:49] <didrocks> if nobody is against, I can handle gnome-doc-utils
[09:50] <pitti> I object!!
[09:51]  * pitti hugs didrocks, j/k
[09:51] <didrocks> pitti: energically? ;)
[09:51]  * didrocks hugs pitti :)
[09:51] <mvo> seb128: ok, I added dir/file auto-creation now, so that only sources.list needs to be modified
[09:52] <seb128> mvo: how does that work?
[09:52] <seb128> mvo: ie what do we need to call or have on disk with your new code?
[09:52] <mvo> seb128: cache=apt.Cache(rootdir="my-dir") - it will create all files it needs in that my-dir subtree
[09:53] <seb128> so only require an etc directory with a sources.list?
[09:53] <mvo> seb128: then put something mydir/etc/apt/sources.list and use cache.update() etc
[09:53] <seb128> ok excellent, thanks!
[09:53]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[09:53] <mvo> seb128: yes, it will create a empty file automatically
[09:54] <mvo> seb128: :) np I need to merge and upload next
[09:54] <seb128> no hurry, I will be busy with the new GNOME today
[09:54] <seb128> and my versions script has other things that need to be changed too
[09:54] <seb128> ie
[09:55] <seb128>     for lines in urllib.urlopen("https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade" % source):
[09:55] <seb128>         if lines.find("bugs.launchpad.net") != -1:
[09:55] <seb128> I should look at using launchpadlib
[09:55] <seb128> but I hate the authentification thing they have and I'm not sure there is an efficient way to ask for all the bugs with a tag on a component
[09:59] <geser> there is a searchTasks() method on the distribution object which gives you a list of bug tasks matching the criterias of your search
[10:05] <seb128> geser: could be useful, still the authenfication part is annoying
[10:08] <pitti> seb128: there's lots of standard code for this around now; please let me know if you need help with the auth bits
[10:08] <pitti> seb128: I think the code in ubuntu-dev-tools is best, since your script could just land there
[10:09] <seb128> why one?
[10:09] <seb128>     lp = lp_libsupport.get_launchpad("ubuntu-dev-tools", lp_server)
[10:09] <seb128> that?
[10:09] <didrocks> (I'm giving gvfs a go)
[10:10] <seb128> didrocks: don't touch, gvfs is mine!
[10:10] <seb128> ;-)
[10:10] <pitti> (lol)
[10:10] <didrocks> seb128: ok ok :p
[10:10]  * didrocks hands up
[10:10]  * pitti sponsors texlive-bin
[10:10] <seb128> didrocks: do you run karmic now?
[10:10]  * seb128 sponsors glade3
[10:10] <didrocks> seb128: on a VM, yes, I'll on my daily machine in two weeks (during RMLL)
[10:10] <geser> there is already a singleton around libsupport.get_launchpad() in the u-d-t trunk
[10:11] <seb128> geser: "singleton"?
[10:11] <seb128> didrocks: ok, gvfs needs testing on real hardware if possible due to the devicekit-disks changes so I prefer to do that on my box since I'm running karmic
[10:11] <didrocks> is there anybody going to kill me if I work on mousetweaks? :)
[10:12] <didrocks> seb128: no pb :)
[10:12] <geser> seb128: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton_(patron_de_conception)
[10:12] <didrocks> ok this one is already up to date in karmic
[10:13] <seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
[10:14] <didrocks> seb128: what orange and yellow mean?
[10:14] <seb128> didrocks: refresh
[10:14] <seb128> it's on the bottom
[10:14] <didrocks> seb128: ok, that's what I guessed :)
[10:15] <seb128> geser: *shrug*, I still don't understand what you mean, just that lp_libsupport.get_launchpad() is handy way to do that?
[10:15] <didrocks> I'm taking gnome-themes
[10:16] <lool> Is it on purpose that the Effects tab in gnome-appearance-properties selects no radio button when custom effects are in place?
[10:16] <seb128> cool
[10:16] <seb128> lool: yes, because the default choice match a set of effects
[10:17] <lool> Ok; I have an issue where compiz doesn't honor my config, I wasn't sure whether this was another symptom
[10:17] <didrocks> pitti: seb128 : is it intended that gnome-themes source package is in main and binaries in universe (reading rmadison output)
[10:18] <pitti> didrocks: we only have g-t-selected in main
[10:18] <pitti> yes, it's intended
[10:18] <lool> mvo: Just noticed the longish get_current_window_manager() in gnome-control-center/capplets/appearance/appearance-effects.c; any reason not to use gdk_x11_screen_get_window_manager_name()?
[10:18] <geser> seb128: the problem was that get_launchpad() was called at several places around the scripts and the ubuntutools modules instead of using one object for all LP API calls (and also authenticate only once)
[10:19] <lool> mvo: (I thought the window manager name wasn't detected properly; it turned out to be correctly detected, but I rewrote this function with the Gdk function as it was known-working for me)
[10:19] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so, I'm going to the regular sponsorship process :)
[10:19] <pitti> didrocks: yes, you should be able to commit (it's ~ubuntu-desktop)
[10:19] <mvo> lool: no reason, probably ignorance - thanks for fixing it
[10:20] <lool> mvo: Should I change it to http://paste.ubuntu.com/196177/ ?  (module some other changes to stop freeing the string and use static char everywhere)
[10:21] <lool> I feel a bit bad about that as I don't know if it matches 100% with the current code; wouldn't want to introduce regressions just for a code cleanup   ;-)
[10:23] <mvo> lool: if you have tested it I'm fine with it, it removes a whole bunch of code (always a good thing)
[10:24] <mvo> lool: thanks for the python-apt merge from the not-commited upload btw (not sure if I thanked for that already)
[10:25] <lool> Well I had forgotten I had done that, and whether you had thanked me; happy if it helped
[10:28] <alejandra>  hello. I installed the nvidia drivers from the 'restricted drivers manager' to fix the screen resolution issue on Ubuntu on my Mac. Since I did that X-chat either crashes my machine or renders incorrectly (with letters missing and colout patches). Any ideas?
[10:28] <seb128> alejandra: try #ubuntu
[10:28]  * pitti grabs g-p-m
[10:29] <alejandra> seb128, thank you, will try there
[10:32] <Ampelbein> seb128: hi there. I'm ready to do some GNOME-updates, is there anything urgent to do?
[10:32] <seb128> Ampelbein: hi, no, nothing yet to do, there is few tarballs for the moment and didrocks did those already
[10:32] <didrocks> (I'm putting epiphany-browser into bzr)
[10:33] <Ampelbein> ok, will wait then ;-)
[10:33] <seb128> didrocks: epiphany-browser is deprecated in favor or epiphany-webkit but feel free
[10:33] <seb128> ie I don't expect it will change much from now
[10:34] <didrocks> seb128: really? I was thinking it was still the same package. But well, I can still update it (maybe we can put it in universe, though?)
[10:34] <seb128> didrocks: how same package?
[10:34] <lool> mvo: Ok; I tested the final version which is http://paste.ubuntu.com/196182/
[10:34] <lool> Will commit to bzr now
[10:35] <didrocks> seb128: I was thinking that epiphany-browser was transitionned to use webkit
[10:35] <seb128> mvo: speaking about review, want to have a look to bug #383461?
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks: apt-cache showsrc epiphany-webkit
[10:36] <pitti> seb128: want me to sponsor bug 386035 ?
[10:36] <didrocks> seb128: yes yes, I believe you, I just assumed wrongly ^^ (epiphany-webkit is not in your tabular, btw)
[10:36] <pitti> seb128: (I can reproduce the crash)
[10:36] <seb128> pitti: you are welcome to do so
[10:37] <pitti> taking then
[10:37] <seb128> didrocks: right, I was wondering if we should list both or only epiphany-webkit
[10:37] <seb128> pitti: danke
[10:38] <mvo> seb128: yes, I can have a look
[10:38] <seb128> mvo: danke
[10:38] <didrocks> seb128: maybe 2 tabulars? One for "important stuff", and another one for less important ones?
[10:38] <mvo> lool: thanks, I like the amount of "-" in that patch
[10:38] <didrocks> and so, epiphany-browser will be in the second one.
[10:39] <seb128> didrocks: I've no code right now to handle a different GNOME serie for a tarball, need to do that
[10:39] <seb128> didrocks: ie saying that epiphany-browser tracks 2.26
[10:40] <didrocks> seb128: ok. It's not a priority in any case :)
[10:40] <lool> mvo: So I have this weird problem that the keyboard shortcut to launch a custom command doesn't work anymore; this happens frenquently to me, and usually editing the shortcut is enough to fix it; would you like to debug this with me now?
[10:41] <lool> The keyboard shortcut is Alt-m and instead of the command being launched, I get "í" on the focused app as the shortcut isn't intercepted by the wm
[10:43] <lool> Oh that's interesting; because I ran gnome-appearance-properties from a random work dir and it started compiz, all commands I start with keybindings are started with that new cwd
[10:43] <mvo> seb128: patch looks good
[10:43] <lool> (Anyway, unrelated)
[10:43] <seb128> mvo: excellent ;-)
[10:44] <pitti> mvo: can you review the compiz change? the package branch is still owned by ~compiz
[10:44] <pitti> mvo: bug 305740 I mean
[10:44] <pitti> also, perhaps it's time to hand over the compiz package bzr to ~ubuntu-desktop?
[10:45] <didrocks> taking nautilus before having my lunch :)
[10:45] <lool> (gnome-window-properties:12227): capplet-common-WARNING **: Couldn't load window manager settings module `/usr/lib/window-manager-settings/libmetacity.so' (/usr/lib/window-manager-settings/libmetacity.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
[10:46] <seb128> didrocks is stealing all my tarballs!!!
[10:46] <didrocks> oh seb ^^
[10:46]  * pitti sponsores transmission
[10:46] <mvo> pitti: sure - how about adding ubuntu-desktop as a member to compiz? or will that result in some mail spam?
[10:47] <didrocks> seb128: welcome back :p
[10:47] <pitti> mvo: depends on whether ~compiz has an explicit contact address
[10:47] <seb128> didrocks: hey ;-)
[10:47] <pitti> mvo: if it does, it won't add spam
[10:47] <didrocks> seb128: if you can't live with it, you can do it ;)
[10:47] <seb128> didrocks: no that's ok do it, I will do sponsoring and try to get my versions table working better meanwhile
[10:48] <didrocks> seb128: ok (and that's why I announce there what I'm planning to do, avoid collision or stealing gvfs :p)
[10:48] <mvo> pitti: ok, I set the contact adress to me for now and add ubuntu-desktop
[10:48] <pitti> mvo: cool, thanks
[10:48] <seb128> didrocks: you can do gvfs too if you want ;-)
[10:49] <didrocks> seb128: I prefer first nautilus, as I don't have real hw to test gvfs ;)
[10:49] <seb128> ok, doing gvfs there then
[10:51] <seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html updated to list epiphany-webkit (and gvfs and not gconf in duplicate)
[10:51] <lool> Hmm Robert broke the autoreconf patch
[10:51] <didrocks> seb128: cool!
[10:52] <didrocks> seb128: if you have some time to sponsor gnome-python-desktop today, here are some thoughts (http://paste.ubuntu.com/196201/ or you can ask me if I'm online)
[10:54] <seb128> didrocks: ok, will look at that a bit later
[10:54] <didrocks> seb128: ok, no hurry :)
[10:55] <seb128> didrocks: to reply to the -dbg one, dh_strip moves debug symbols on the side, python-dbg is a different interpreter with different binary and code
[10:55] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so this is specific for python
[10:55] <seb128> yes
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - at the rate you're going at, there will be no updates for me to do when i finish work ;)
[10:56]  * pitti watches seb128 drink cocktails and watching his packaging army
[10:56] <seb128> there is already no update to do for me at work! ;-)
[10:57] <pitti> you just wave the sponsoring club, eh? :-)
[10:57] <seb128> indeed ;-)
[10:57] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, just motivated today. Sure that tomorrow, we will die under tons of updates to do :)
[10:57] <seb128> Ampelbein: want to rebase gconf-editor xchat-gnome and zenity on debian?
[10:59] <Ampelbein> seb128: sure, will do.
[10:59] <seb128> thanks
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: any objections if I do bug 334446 now?
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: no
[11:02] <pitti> great
[11:07] <seb128> brb
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: will you sponsor bug 375844, since you reviewed it several times already?
[11:22] <Ampelbein> I have a question about the use of scrollkeeper in ubuntu and debian. In most ubuntu packages, scrollkeeper is disabled via debian/rules. Is this a delta needed in ubuntu or can this changes be forwarded to debian? Can someone point me to documentation why scrollkeeper is disabled on ubuntu buildd?
[11:23] <seb128> pitti: yes
[11:24]  * pitti grabs pidgin
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: which one?
[11:24] <seb128> Ampelbein: what change? --disable-scrollkeeper in the configure options? that can go to debian
[11:24] <pitti> seb128: bug 378710
[11:25] <seb128> ah ok, I guess this one is ok
[11:25] <seb128> there is some pidgin bugs on the sponsoring list I'm not sure about
[11:25] <seb128> changes upstream don't want to use and that i'm not sure to understand for custom msn smileys, etc
[11:26] <Ampelbein> seb128: yes, the --disable-scrollkeeper one. And I quess the build-dep on scrollkeeper can go, too? (If the configure script is smart enough to not fail when scrollkeeper is not present)
[11:26] <seb128> Ampelbein: yes
[11:26] <Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
[11:32] <pitti> seb128: yes, I reviewed the other two, they are too crackful
[11:42] <seb128> didrocks: gvfs requires a newer glib so can't be updated right now
[11:55] <pitti> ugh!
[11:55] <pitti> kenvandine: new telepathy synced, and builds now
[11:58] <pitti> oh, "glib", not "glibc"
[11:59] <seb128> doing the gnome-settings-daemon update
[12:00] <pitti> ok, sponsored 10 packages now; 'nuff for today
[12:00]  * seb128 hugs pitti, good work ;-)
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: any idea whether we can stop libpurple0 from depending on pidgin-data?
[12:01] <pitti> with telepathy-haze being installed by default, we need to keep libpurple0
[12:01] <pitti> but I wouldn't like to waste 1 MB for -data
[12:01] <seb128> no idea
[12:04] <lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/196230/ fixes LP #385220 for me
[12:05] <lool> mvo: I suspect the wnck code doesn't deal correctly with this display mode and compiz, but I'm not sure that's worth researching
[12:05] <lool> The change seems correct in all cases in gnome-panel; could you please proof read and perhaps ack?
[12:07] <didrocks> seb128: oki. i'm back from lunch and will finish nautilus test before push it.
[12:15] <lool> mvo: I've tested all four combinations of display_all = true/false and compiz/metacity and it worked fine in all cases
[12:34] <lool> mvo: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/387262 I believe the implications are more serious than just lang-sel
[12:58] <Ampelbein> seb128: bug 387245, bug 387256 and bug 387267 done
[12:58] <seb128> Ampelbein: thanks
[13:06] <didrocks> seb128: there is no method ATM to put the bug number is comment (do you want me to show every bug numbers or you will take them in your inbox?)
[13:06] <seb128> didrocks: "is comment"?
[13:06] <seb128> what comment? where?
[13:06] <didrocks> s/is/in
[13:06] <didrocks> (in versions.html)
[13:07] <seb128> it should list bugs tagged "desktop-upgrade"
[13:07] <seb128> you can try on one bug if you want
[13:07] <didrocks> ok, I will try on nautilus one
[13:08] <didrocks> ok, let's way now
[13:15] <pitti> asac, seb128: BTW, did you notice that LP can search for "not this tag" now?
[13:15] <pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bugs?field.tag=-apport-crash
[13:16] <seb128> pitti: no
[13:16] <pitti> not released yet, but works on edge
[13:16] <seb128> cool
[13:17] <pitti> with an appropriate quick bookmark this is pretty convenient
[13:17] <seb128> indeed ;-)
[13:18] <seb128> brb trying gsd upgrade
[13:18] <asac> cool
[13:19] <asac> step by step ;)
[13:37] <seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
[13:37] <seb128> that works
[13:38] <didrocks> seb128: Nice! I'm tagging the others bug
[13:39] <pitti> ah, "comment" is from a bug tag?
[13:40] <pitti> didrocks: sooner or later these bugs should be autogenerated
[13:40] <pitti> or perhaps become merge requests
[13:40] <pitti> seb128: great list now!
[13:41] <seb128> pitti: no, comment is a from a comment table (in my script for now but will be a file somewhere) and it adds "desktop-upgrade" tagged bugs too
[13:41] <didrocks> pitti: yes, I read that. It will be easier for us :)
[13:41] <seb128> the tag might need to be changed, I just picked a name for testing
[13:42] <seb128> could be "desktop-todo" or something
[13:49] <mpt> mvo, I just mailed you a draft mockup for simplifying the Update Manager window
[13:50] <mpt> ok for a call in ten minutes?
[13:50] <mvo> mpt: thanks!
[14:01] <lool> mvo: I'm pushing + uploading the gnome-panel changes; shout if there's any issue
[14:06] <didrocks> seb128: do you think I'm crazy if I take the evolution-mapi update (we still have the issue of testing it properly, but well...)?
[14:06] <seb128> didrocks: not at all, go for it ;-)
[14:06] <didrocks> oki ;-)
[14:09] <mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SummerOfUsability
[14:18] <didrocks> seb128: I need evolution-dev 2.27.2. Do I gain a new update to do? :)
[14:19] <seb128> didrocks: yes if you want to, the evo* stack is to merge on debian and update, feel free to work on that
[14:19] <seb128> I'm fighting python-apt
[14:19] <seb128> I think I will need mvo soon ;-)
[14:20] <didrocks> hum, merge and update evolution, seems not fun ^^ Well, trying it :)
[14:22] <seb128> Ampelbein: new gnome-utils version if you want to do the update
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've just realised i'm still sitting on the gnome-panel update. it's pretty much done now, but i might need you to take a look at it later before i commit it, as the current version has diverged quite a lot from debian.
[14:24] <seb128> ok
[14:25] <Ampelbein> seb128: will do that. I'll disable the maintainer-mode of autotools completely for that one since it gave some FTBFS in the current version, ok?
[14:25] <seb128> ok
[14:30] <pitti> hello rickspencer3
[14:30] <rickspencer3> pitti: hello!
[14:30] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:31] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[14:31] <rickspencer3> pitti: did you see that I pimped out the burndown chart script?
[14:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, but I'm going nuts with this
[14:31] <rickspencer3> with what?
[14:31] <pitti> if I just call ./burndown.py, or add some options like --output, etc.
[14:31] <pitti> I get a cross-hair mouse cursor similar to ghostscript, and a hang
[14:31] <rickspencer3> ?
[14:32] <rickspencer3> weird
[14:32] <pitti> and I have to click and press enter a couple of times
[14:32] <pitti> and this produces three new files:
[14:32] <pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963580 2009-06-15 15:31 datetime
[14:32] <pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963578 2009-06-15 15:31 getopt
[14:32] <pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963575 2009-06-15 15:31 sys
[14:32] <pitti> and no output
[14:32] <rickspencer3> wtf?
[14:32] <pitti> from: can't read /var/mail/pychart
[14:32] <pitti> ./burndown.py: line 6: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[14:32] <pitti> ./burndown.py: line 6: `def usage():'
[14:32] <pitti> the three new files are postscript
[14:32] <rickspencer3> well
[14:32] <rickspencer3> hold on
[14:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: does that work for you somehow?
[14:33] <rickspencer3> it certainly worked when I uploaded it
[14:33] <rickspencer3> let me try it on this machine
[14:34] <mvo> lool: thanks, sorry - I was in a call
[14:36] <rickspencer3> pitti: works for m
[14:36] <rickspencer3> :/
[14:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: oooh *slapping head*
[14:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: I did ./burndown.py, since the file is executable
[14:37] <lool> mvo: NP, I'm reasonnably confident, but I think you were the original author; I saw you were just busy  :)
[14:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: but it doesn't have a shebang
[14:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, WFM now, sorry
[14:37] <rickspencer3> my fault
[14:37] <rickspencer3> sorry
[14:38] <pitti> n/p, should have looked before
[14:38] <rickspencer3> inconsistent code for the fail
[14:38] <pitti> rickspencer3: with your example data I get a trend line
[14:39] <pitti> but with the current desktop data I don't
[14:39] <rickspencer3> hmm
[14:39] <pitti> do I need to explicitly specify it with arguments?
[14:39] <rickspencer3> no
[14:39] <rickspencer3> perhaps the trend line is right on top of one of the axes
[14:39] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/data.csv
[14:40] <pitti> python burndown.py - < /tmp/data.csv
[14:40] <kenvandine> pitti: cool, thx
[14:40] <rickspencer3> try python burdown.py --start_items = 50
[14:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^ produces http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/burndown.png
[14:40] <rickspencer3> python burdown.py --start_items=50
[14:40] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:40] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
[14:40] <rickspencer3> back?
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> anyone here mind if i work on gnome-terminal merge with debian?
[14:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: ah, now I see one
[14:41] <rickspencer3> how's the ear surgery go?
[14:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: probably because the first couple of days have 0 data
[14:41] <rickspencer3> pitti: right
[14:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: I think I'll just drop the empty section before the real data begins
[14:41] <asac> hi. so i found lp:~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart ... is the blueprint parser in there, pitti?
[14:41] <rickspencer3> if start_items is not specified it just uses the number of open items in the first day
[14:41] <rickspencer3> asac: yes
[14:42] <pitti> asac: no, that's not in bzr yet; didn't find a place for that yet
[14:42] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: yup... glad i am not a stay at home dad...  thats hard work
[14:42] <rickspencer3> asac: no
[14:42] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:42] <Nafallo> hmm. my gnome-power-manager (or whatever) makes my jaunty laptop go to sleep whenever I leave it locked and goes for lunch
[14:42] <asac> pitti: ok. please put it in same project ;)
[14:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: hehe
[14:42] <Nafallo> anyone else seen that?
[14:42] <kenvandine> Nafallo: well i just noticed a problem sort of like that, gonna file a bug
[14:42] <kenvandine> sometimes when i resume the display lights, but doesn't wake up
[14:43] <kenvandine> the computer resumes though
[14:43] <Nafallo> kenvandine: kewl. want to subscribe nafallo? :-)
[14:43] <kenvandine> i get back online... etc
[14:43] <kenvandine> will do
[14:43] <kenvandine> Nafallo: does that sound like what you are seeing?
[14:43] <pitti> rickspencer3: hmm: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/burndown.png
[14:43] <Nafallo> kenvandine: hmm. I think it's actually sleeping. the moon is lit.
[14:43] <pitti> rickspencer3: it just seems to count the DONE tasks, not open/postponed
[14:43] <Nafallo> kenvandine: is/was/you know what I mean.
[14:44] <kenvandine> Nafallo: yeah, but does it resume properly?
[14:44] <Nafallo> kenvandine: yes/.
[14:44] <kenvandine> ok
[14:44] <kenvandine> not the same then
[14:44] <kenvandine> :)
[14:44] <kenvandine> mine resumes, but X doesn't resume
[14:44] <rickspencer3> pitti: remaining = total-done
[14:44] <Nafallo> my problem is that it is sleeping in the first place :-P
[14:44] <kenvandine> just noticed it over the weekend
[14:44] <kenvandine> Nafallo: well... i want mine to sleep :)
[14:44] <pitti> rickspencer3: I mean the trend line should start at the total number of items, not number of open items, right?
[14:44] <Nafallo> kenvandine: sleep while you're on AC? :-)
[14:45] <kenvandine> no
[14:45] <rickspencer3> pitti: I usually start it at the total open on the first day
[14:45] <Nafallo> kenvandine: that's what mine is doing.
[14:45] <kenvandine> Nafallo: mine sleeps when i close the lid
[14:45] <pitti> rickspencer3: okay
[14:45] <kenvandine> on AC or not
[14:45] <kenvandine> but that is what i want
[14:45] <Nafallo> kenvandine: mine doesn't. but that's what /I/ want :-)
[14:46] <pitti> rickspencer3: okay, cron'ed
[14:47] <pitti> rickspencer3: we might either need to manually adjust the trend line, or reset the data once all the specs have WIs
[14:48] <rickspencer3> pitti: we might want to make the burndown start on Thursday
[14:48] <rickspencer3> that's feature definition after all, and everyone should be done specifying their work items by then
[14:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: np, that's an rm data/desktop.db away :)
[14:48] <rickspencer3> kewl
[14:49] <pitti> I'll set up a nice page by then
[14:50] <rickspencer3> pitti: I added the shebang line, btw
[14:50]  * rickspencer3 looks away sheepishly
[14:51] <pitti> rickspencer3: cool, thanks (please push, too)
[14:51] <rickspencer3> did that
[14:51] <pitti> then LP is just lagging
[14:51] <pitti> (weird, though, it doesn't usually)
[14:52] <kenvandine> pitti: i have noticed it lagging over the past week or so
[14:52] <kenvandine> the other day it took me nearly 10m to see a commit in gwibber
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: there are a lot of work to merge evolution. I will give it a look this week-end (I prefer to take 2 hours to do a merge in one time, not being stopped, if you don't mind).
[14:53] <pitti> http:// used to have a 3-minute delay, but bzr+ssh:// used to work immediately
[14:53] <kenvandine> i was looking with bzr+ssh://
[14:53] <kenvandine> took ages
[14:53] <seb128> didrocks: you are the one who asked for it, it was on my todolist before ;-)
[14:54] <didrocks> seb128: I can handle it, it's just that I wasn't aware of such a merge to do before updating :p (so, this week-end will be a good time for that ;))
[14:54] <seb128> didrocks: let's see if somebody does it before ;-)
[14:54] <didrocks> hehe :-)
[14:56] <Nafallo> omg
[14:56] <Nafallo> gconf-editor to the rescue.
[14:56] <Nafallo> kenvandine: the gui are set right... gconf-editor confirms that it got stuff wrong...
[14:56] <didrocks> handling libchamplain instead :)
[14:56]  * Nafallo headdesks and stops trusting gnome and seb128
[14:57] <seb128> lol
[14:58] <kenvandine> eek
[15:16] <didrocks> doing gtkhtml now :)
[15:19] <lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: I'd like to do a langsel upload to address some issues but mostly because I did some changes which affect its translations and would like to upload that as early as possible in the cycle
[15:19] <lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: Any objection?  Would you like to review and/or add some of your own changes?
[15:20] <ArneGoetje> lool: I haven't done any changes yet for karmic, so from my side, go ahead.
[15:23] <mvo> lool: have you merged them yet? I would like to have a look at the diff
[15:23] <lool> mvo: It's pushed, yes
[15:23] <lool> r246 - 249
[15:23] <lool> (so diff -r 245..)
[15:24] <mvo> lool: thanks, looks fine \o/
[15:25] <lool> Ok, pushing
[15:25] <lool> Hmm except the revision
[15:26] <lool> Pushed
[15:26] <Nafallo> oh... nice. so the gui options set aren't changed when I swapped 'suspend' and 'nothing' on 'sleep_type_{ac,battery}'
[15:26] <Nafallo> ...in gconf-editor
[15:26] <Nafallo> meh! french coward!
[15:26] <Nafallo> ;-)
[15:26] <lool> ArneGoetje: I would have liked to fix all the issues I discovered, but I swapped some I discovered myself with some I took from the BTS since I had to check the bugs to avoid dups anyway   ;-)
[15:27] <lool> ArneGoetje: I'm afraid some of the issues will be a bit time consuming to fix and I have a bunch of other things to look at right now   :-/
[15:27] <ArneGoetje> lool: saw your bug reports already...
[15:28] <lool> Some are really minor, like LANGUAGE or dmrc handling, but some are a bit scary
[15:32] <ArneGoetje> lool: LANGUAGE settings is on my todo list. .dmrc I'm not sure if that is an issue at all...
[15:33]  * mvo takes the yelp sponsoring
[15:33] <lool> ArneGoetje: If I change /etc/default/locale manually, it wont update .dmrc and it will get out of sync despite me setting the keep in sync flag
[15:34] <didrocks> seb128: in gtkhtml, the package is named libgtkhtml3.14-19. But even in the previous revision, configure.ac has GTKHTML_CURRENT=20. Is it intended?
[15:35] <ArneGoetje> lool: yes, the code currently doesn't take deliberate changes made by the user into account... needs to be fixed.
[15:35] <seb128> didrocks: yes, the binary name is according to the soname
[15:36] <lool> ArneGoetje: I think the suggested algorithm for updating .dmrc is more robust than the current one; but really this is minor, most people don't care
[15:36] <didrocks> seb128: ok. I didn't checked yet the soname (I'm doing that now), just see that in configure.ac
[15:36] <lool> I noticed because I started keeping my home in a VCS
[15:36] <lool> Which is actually incredibly useful to track which application does what, but not too exciting otherwise :)
[15:37] <seb128> didrocks: the soname is basically current - age
[15:37] <mvo> heh :)
[15:37] <didrocks> seb128: I must confess that even reading some documentation I never understood this black magic current - age thing :))
[15:38] <mvo> didrocks: the yelp I just build segfaults for me, does it work ok for me?
[15:38] <mvo> didrocks: eh, ok for you?
[15:38] <seb128> didrocks: that's how libtool is working  no need to understand ;-)
[15:38] <seb128> mvo: the current karmic version segfaults for me too
[15:38] <seb128> mvo: in case that's of any use
[15:38] <didrocks> mvo: it was ok for me (I also installed and runned it). Let me try again
[15:38] <didrocks> for build or run?
[15:39] <seb128> didrocks: run
[15:39] <didrocks> seb128: oki for the black magic :)
[15:39] <mvo> seb128: it is, then at least there is no regression ;)
[15:40] <pitti> to add to the noise, yelp segfaults for me in current karmic as well
[15:40] <didrocks> yes, I just launched "yelp --version"
[15:41] <didrocks> but the current one is also segfaulting
[15:41] <seb128> I blame it on asac and xulrunner
[15:50] <asac> wasnt yelp going for webkit ;)?
[15:58] <lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: aha, actually that quote issue is a sudo bug: Bug #387262
[15:59] <lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: So perhaps we should actually revert the double quotes changes in langsel
[15:59] <lool> As double quotes is what localechooser generates and is nicer and less risky (in case of weird locales, but that should be ok)
[16:03] <lool> cjwatson: Re: 387262; do you find it appropriate to use the same algo for sudo?
[16:04] <lool> cjwatson: (The issue was only with sudo -i as I discovered now)
[16:04] <lool> cjwatson: alternatively, we could use pam_env in the pam.d file of sudo and disable the /etc/environment reading code, but I suspect that might interact badly with some sudo flags
[16:07] <cjwatson> lool: yes, I think we should change sudo to handle the environment file in the same way PAM does, one way or another
[16:13] <didrocks> seb128: for gtkhtml3.14, do I push it under ~ubuntu-desktop/gtkhtml/ubuntu or ~ubuntu-desktop/gtkhtml3.14/ubuntu (as we have both packages)?
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks: we have both?
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks: libgtkhtml != gtkhtml3
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks: gtkhtml3.14 is the correct one to use there
[16:14] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so I will ask on #launchpad for the project creation
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks: thanks
[16:15] <seb128> didrocks: well there might be a project
[16:15] <seb128> but be careful it's different from libgtkhtml
[16:15] <seb128> could be libgtkhtml and gtkhtml already
[16:15] <seb128> adding upstream tasks work so I think there an upstream project
[16:16] <didrocks> seb128: hum, libgtkhtml is deprecated, no?
[16:16] <seb128> dunno
[16:16] <seb128> they are different libs, when I checked previous it was still used by some softwares
[16:16] <didrocks> (I only see gtkhtml |   1.1.10-9 | dapper/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc with rmadison)
[16:17] <seb128> $ rmadison libgtkhtml2 | grep karmic
[16:17] <seb128> libgtkhtml2 | 2.11.1-2ubuntu1 |        karmic | source
[16:18] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so, this gtkhtml package has been renamed, right?
[16:18] <seb128> could be
[16:18] <seb128> I don't know the specifics about this one
[16:19] <seb128> the gtkhtml<nn> abi has changed over time
[16:19] <seb128> could be that a will ago it was not versioned though
[16:19] <didrocks> seb128: yes, and there are lots of epoch too in the packaging :/
[16:20] <didrocks> seb128: well, during the project creation, I pushed it to ~didrocks/+junk/gtkhtml3.14 and will attach this branch to the bug
[16:20] <seb128> ok
[16:22] <seb128> $ time python versions.py
[16:22] <seb128> real	0m6.476s
[16:22] <seb128> that's better ;-)
[16:23] <pitti> nice
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: no more rmadison call ? :-)
[16:23] <seb128> I'm using python-apt to get versions now
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks: no, that was too slooooow ;-)
[16:23] <seb128> thanks mvo for the help
[16:24] <didrocks> seb128: I got stressed when calling it manually once. I just can't imagine what it can be in a script :-)
[16:24] <seb128> didrocks: well, building the desktop table was taking 8 minutes
[16:24] <seb128> calling rmadison 3 times for each source
[16:25] <pitti> seb128: found an easy way with p-apt?
[16:25] <didrocks> seb128: oh, I would have imagined that it will take longer... but well, if you compared it with the 7 seconds... :-)
[16:26] <seb128> pitti: sort of easy, it's 7-8 lines of python-apt by distribution now and mvo made python-apt in karmic do most of magic to create cache directories, etc
[16:26] <pitti> yay
[16:26] <seb128> so basically the current setup requires you to ship the sources.list for the distros you want and that's it
[16:29] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html updated
[16:30] <mvo> pitti: I made a lp:~mvo/+junk/compare-to-debian (needs the latest python-apt)
[16:30] <didrocks> seb128: hum, seems that "desktop-upgrade" tag is working only on the nautilus bug
[16:30] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, didn't it ctrl + R
[16:30] <didrocks> (a proxy is anoying me apparently)
[17:11] <lool> cjwatson: Mind reviewing the sudo changes?
[17:28] <seb128> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions has the code to build http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html if somebody want to have a look
[17:28] <seb128> that's still an early version and lot of things could be done better but it's mostly working
[17:31] <lool> Did you consider using fredp's code?  He refreshed it
[17:32] <lool> (or is that based on his work?)
[17:33] <seb128> lool: I looked at what he did before starting but I decided it would be faster to work on a smaller version
[17:35] <seb128> his code is quite debian specific (ie check for debian team, buildds on the debian infrastructure), it uses rmadison to get the versions which is slow and list tarballs upstream too
[17:35] <lool> That's the new one as well?
[17:36] <seb128> the one I've been pointed at one week ago when I asked on #gnome-debian
[17:36] <lool> Hmm indeed, it's rmadison based still
[17:36] <seb128> the rmadison way was taking almost 8 minutes to get the version
[17:36] <seb128> where the python-apt version takes 8 seconds
[17:37] <lool> Yeah, our rmadison emulation is really really slow
[17:37] <seb128> versions
[17:37] <seb128> also vuntz builds http://www.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-2.28 for the versions
[17:38] <seb128> and the debian code list tarballs on the ftp server
[17:53] <james_w> are there reports of gnome-screensaver being broken on karmic?
[17:54] <james_w> I think I'm seeing that, and I don't want to spend the next few days trying to not let the screensaver kick in
[17:55] <seb128> not that I know but I'm not tracking gnome-screensaver
[17:55] <seb128> knowing that it didn't change for month though it's probably rather gpm or xorg being buddy
[17:55] <seb128> buggy
[17:56] <kenvandine> james_w: what are you seeing?
[17:57] <kenvandine> i am seeing something that is related to screen blanking
[17:57] <james_w> I went away for a few minutes and when I came back my laptop was dead to me
[17:57] <kenvandine> black screen?
[17:57] <james_w> maybe it was DPMS, yeah
[17:57] <kenvandine> yes
[17:57] <kenvandine> same here
[17:57] <kenvandine> happens sometimes on resume as well
[17:57] <james_w> yeah
[17:58] <kenvandine> when i resume, the screen stays black
[17:58] <james_w> -intel?
[17:58] <kenvandine> but my laptop signs on, etc
[17:58] <kenvandine> yes
[17:58] <kenvandine> james_w: just started happening at the end of the week for me
[17:58] <ccheney> i did notice that recently the DPMS setting can now be earlier than the screensaver timeout
[17:58] <james_w> I've just upgraded, so I can't be sure
[17:58] <kenvandine> was trying to get some logs this morning before the sprint of calls today :)
[17:58] <ccheney> prior to karmic i think that this was not possible
[17:58] <seb128> I've noticed such issues on intel
[17:59]  * ccheney thinks what he saw has nothing to do with what kenvandine is seeing though
[18:00] <seb128> [43080.776561]  [<c05302d6>] __mutex_lock_slowpath+0xc6/0x130
[18:00] <seb128> [43080.776571]  [<c0530050>] mutex_lock+0x20/0x40
[18:01] <seb128> [43080.776602]  [<f851380b>] i915_gem_set_domain_ioctl+0x7b/0xd0 [i915]
[18:01] <seb128> I get such stacktrace in syslog when I get the "screen don't turn on again" issues
[18:02] <kenvandine> i'll confirm if that is what i get next time it happens to me... i couldn't get logs with no ssh and for some reason i can't get to another VT either
[18:03] <Ampelbein> seb128: i noticed bug 383973, could this be your issue to?
[18:03]  * kenvandine hadn't installed sshd since re-installing karmic
[18:03] <seb128> another VT didn't work either
[18:03] <seb128> but the log remain there for days
[18:04] <kenvandine> humm
[18:04] <seb128> Ampelbein: could be the same issue but the bug doesn't have a lot of details
[18:04] <Ampelbein> seb128: btw: bug 387394 done
[18:05] <seb128> Ampelbein: thanks, you can tag the bug desktop-upgrade so it's listed in the comments on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
[18:05] <kenvandine> i don't have an older messages file... messages and messages.0
[18:05] <kenvandine> messages.0 is from a hour ago :/
[18:05] <kenvandine> weird as well
[18:05] <seb128> no messages.<n>.gz?
[18:05] <kenvandine> no
[18:06] <seb128> weird
[18:06] <kenvandine> i did just re-install on thursday... but i have no logs older than earlier today
[18:06] <kenvandine>  ls messages*
[18:06] <kenvandine> messages  messages.0
[18:06] <seb128> Ampelbein: feel free to work on other merges or upgrade in the list, gnome-system-monitor, file-roller for example
[18:06] <Ampelbein> seb128: nice list. can i suppose to add seahorse and seahorse-plugins? they seem to be missing from your list.
[18:07] <seb128> ah right
[18:08] <Ampelbein> seb128: is there a way to add an own comment like on merges.ubuntu.com? so that one can "claim" an update? or should i just announce in channel: doing XXX upgrade now?
[18:09] <seb128> not yet
[18:09] <seb128> it's a first code drop, code available on lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
[18:09] <seb128> you are welcome to work on adding that
[18:10] <seb128> for now we still use the channel
[18:10] <seb128> but we will probably be using bugs to track work
[18:10] <Ampelbein> ok.
[18:10] <seb128> the code already lists the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade
[18:10] <seb128> and add those in the comments column
[18:13] <Ampelbein> seb128: i see. how often does it update?
[18:14] <seb128> when I run it for now  ;-)
[18:14] <seb128> I need to set up a cron job
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - have you noticed the xrandr plugin no longer loads with the latest gnome-settings-daemon/
[18:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson: no I didn't but we got bug #387391
[18:19] <seb128> does it crash your session or just doesn't work?
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> the xrandr plugin fails with "undefined symbol: gnome_rr_screen_get_timestamps"
[18:20] <seb128> does it crash your session or just doesn't work?
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't crash the session
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> it's just that plugin which fails to load
[18:20] <seb128> ok good so it can wait
[18:20] <seb128> I've to go now for sport and dinner, I will look at it later or tomorrow
[18:20] <seb128> alright
[18:21] <seb128> I guess it needs a newer gnome-desktop and that's not claimed at build time
[18:21] <seb128> anyway I've to go, bbl
[18:22] <chrisccoulson> possibly
[18:26] <dobey> hrmm
[18:26] <dobey> rickspencer3, seb128: would bug #387405 need a blueprint too? I think it's a simple change in the gnome-panel build to make
[18:30] <pitti> bye everyone, Taekwondo time
[18:32] <rickspencer3> dobey: I think a bug is fine, but it's really for pitti or seb128 to say
[18:32] <rickspencer3> well, they're not here, so I mandate, a bug is fine ;)
[18:37] <kenvandine> hehe
[18:38] <dobey> heh
[19:08] <crevette> hello
[20:56] <didrocks> gnome-themes updated to 2.27.3 so as the bug report, good night everybody :)
[20:59] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[20:59] <didrocks> thanks seb128, good luck for your sponsoring duty ;)
[21:00] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, would it be acceptable to enable AM_MAINTAINER_MODE in a package to prevent an autotools update when the package is being built?
[21:55] <yoasif> any empathy guys here?
[22:05] <istaz_> yoasif: you should ask on #telepatyh
[22:05] <istaz_> * #telepathy
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i took a look at the gnome-settings-daemon issue
[22:05] <yoasif> istaz_, thanks
[22:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson: ah good, we need a new gnome-desktop version right?
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> we do. but the version we need hasnt been released yet
[22:06] <chrisccoulson> i reported a bug against g-s-d because it should check for a newer version now
[22:06] <chrisccoulson> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585893
[22:07] <seb128> ok thanks
[22:07] <chrisccoulson> no problem
[22:08] <Ampelbein> seb128: i've done some hacking on your "desktop versions"-thingie. The result is at http://www.warperbbs.de/versions/versions.html . There are a few issues left: 1. when debian and ubuntu have same version it gets reported as out-of-sync with debian. 2. i'm rewriting the "get launchpad-bugs" part to launchpadlib, so that is not working right now.
[22:19] <seb128> re
[22:19] <seb128> Ampelbein, what was the url again? did you change lot of things?
[22:20] <Ampelbein> seb128: http://www.warperbbs.de/versions/versions.html
[22:20] <Ampelbein> seb128: i split out 3 parts: get the upstream versions, get launchpad reports and generate the html
[22:21] <seb128> how is the comment thing working?
[22:21] <seb128> where do you store the datas?
[22:21] <Ampelbein> seb128: in a seperate text-file
[22:22] <Ampelbein> i push the current state now to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions-devel
[22:23] <Ampelbein> the getting of the launchpad reports is not working atm, am writing the code for python-launchpad-bugs
[22:23] <seb128> "complete rewrite"
[22:23] <seb128> lol
[22:23] <Ampelbein> seb128: i looked at how merges.ubuntu.com did it
[22:24] <Ampelbein> seb128: that is poorly phrased, yeah.
[22:24] <Ampelbein> once i'm happy with it, i'll create new bzr branch with better fitting commit messages
[22:25] <seb128> I'm not sure how to respond
[22:26] <seb128> one thing I find counter-productive is people who start by contributing to something by rewriting everywhere
[22:26] <seb128> everything
[22:30] <Ampelbein> well, your initial version had some issues which could not be easily addressed. e.g. on every run to regenerate the html the complete list of available versions was updated. if you don't like the changes, feel free to pick only those you think are good.
[22:31] <seb128> right the complete list is updated, a run take 8 seconds that's not too expensive
[22:31] <seb128> and how do you want to know if the version changed without querying it
[22:31] <seb128> anyway thanks for the work on it, I will review the changes when you have a working version
[22:33] <Ampelbein> seb128: the versions don't change every 5 minutes or so. it is enough to fetch the list of versions once a day. the launchpad-bug list could be updated every hour, while the user comments should be up to date any given time.
[22:33] <seb128> well the right solution for that is to use a cgi or something which will read dynamically the comments datas when the client load the page
[22:34] <seb128> versions do change every half an hour on new GNOME days
[22:34] <seb128> we have around 60 tarballs in a day
[22:35] <Ampelbein> seb128: ok, point taken. i'll see to integrate the comments to your script.
[22:45] <Ampelbein> seb128: do you want to use launchpadlib or python-launchpadbugs for querying launchpad?
[22:45] <seb128> launchpadlib would probably be better nowadays
[22:47] <Ampelbein> ok
[23:05] <soc1> hi
[23:05] <soc1> does someone know which package has the default settings for gnome?
[23:06] <soc1> i'm looking into https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/387518 and wantto find out how much work it is ...
[23:12] <rickspencer3-afk> soc1: two people to ask:
[23:12] <rickspencer3> 1. robert_ancell, he should be online in the next hour or so
[23:12] <rickspencer3> 2. seb128, he should be online tomorrow
[23:19] <soc1> ah ok, thanks!
[23:20] <soc1> btw, does someone know why many applications have difficulties with different font weights?
[23:21] <soc1> for instance i have a font with weights from light, semi-light, plain, semi-bold, bold, black but no program recognizes it correctly
[23:24] <chrisccoulson> stuff that's not part of the default install shouldn't really be a papercut should they?
[23:24] <soc1> chrisccoulson: me?
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> that was directed at anybody who knows the answer really;)
[23:25] <soc1> yes, i think yopu are correct
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm doing the tracker merge now, but i'm having issues with the autotools update though. the autotools update only alters the timestamp on some files now, which doesn't get saved in the patch. when i build the package, it insists on doing the autotools update again because some timestamps are out of sync, and the build ends up failing
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> i worked around it by enabling AM_MAINTAINER_MODE, but i don't know if there's a better way
[23:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, seems the right way to me too
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll keep that in then
[23:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, and the hundredpapercut better have to focus on the default user experience
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i thought. it seems there are some enthusiastic people adding papercut tasks everywhere;)
[23:32] <seb128> right, I talked to the design team about that, they said they are fine with having lot of those to triage as long as they get 100 good ones on their list for karmic
[23:32] <seb128> so I let them deal with the enthousiastic users ;-)
[23:32] <chrisccoulson> that's ok then:)
[23:33] <chrisccoulson> i just closed one opened against gnome-mount actually, which is why i asked the question
[23:33] <seb128> ok
[23:37] <rickspencer3> imho, it's more important to have a *good* list of paper cuts, rather than a list that is arbitrarily 100
[23:50] <TheMuso> The paper cuts stuff has made it to an article on Ars Technica.
[23:52] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: right, in fact, first page of digg as well!
[23:52] <rickspencer3> soc1: robert_ancell joined, btw
[23:53] <soc1> ah thanks
[23:53] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: soc1 had a question that I thought you might be able to answer
[23:53] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: good evening
[23:53] <robert_ancell> soc1: hello
[23:53] <soc1> robert_ancell: doyou know which package has the default settings for gnome?
[23:53] <soc1> i'm looking into https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/387518 and wantto find out how much work it is ...
[23:54] <robert_ancell> soc1: They should be in the GNOME panel schema
[23:54] <seb128> hey robert_ancell, I just dropped you an email, I was going to bed now
[23:55] <robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb, cya later
[23:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, basically: feel free to work on any tarball update rolled during your day
[23:55] <seb128> you can also do evince, gnome-media, cheese
[23:55] <seb128> nobody claimed those yet
[23:55]  * robert_ancell looks at the gnome mailing list... a few updates overnight
[23:55] <seb128> open a bug when you start on something so we can track work
[23:56] <robert_ancell> seb128: sure
[23:56] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw I started working on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
[23:56] <seb128> robert_ancell, code on lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
[23:56] <seb128> there is no regular updates yet but that should be coming soon
[23:56] <robert_ancell> seb128: excellent, will look at that, very keen to have that working
[23:56] <seb128> good ;-)
[23:56] <seb128> anyway time for bed there, have a nice day!
[23:56] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[23:57] <rickspencer3> bye seb128
[23:58] <soc1> robert_ancell: which source package is that gnome scheme in?
[23:58] <robert_ancell> soc1: just looked it up.  Check out gnome-panel source and look in gnome-panel/*.schemas.in
[23:59]  * TheMuso was thinking of doing gnome-media, since its in the audio/multimedia relm.
[23:59] <TheMuso> I.e, I'm happy to track gnome-media in the future as well.