[01:04] <elky> MTecknology, pleia2 is here, please talk to her.
[01:04] <MTecknology> she said she has a meeting right now
[01:05] <pleia2> yes, but I said you could talk about it here
[01:05] <pleia2> I have frequently asked you to tone down your language in #ubuntu-us - you always say you will but you don't
[01:05] <MTecknology> I'm not arguing that I've used bad language. I'm arguing what I was kicked on
[01:06] <pleia2> I understand that you disagree that "holy crap" is not a swear, *I* don't feel it's appropriate but the core of the issue here is that you've been repeatedly asked to stop and you haven't
[01:06] <pleia2> I don't feel that you take the channel rules seriously, or that you're trying to change
[01:06] <MTecknology> I'm looking for a script to block my messages atm
[01:06] <MTecknology> not replace, just drop
[01:07] <pleia2> (and for the record, I didn't kick or ban, it was a remove to let you cool off, I told you that you could come back if you toned it down)
[01:07] <MTecknology> isn't that the same as kick?
[01:08] <MTecknology> I agree that my language has been bad and I admit I haven't tried hard enough to restrain myself. I have and I've caught myself right before Enter many times. My issue is what I was removed for
[01:08] <elky> MTecknology, if you want your messages blocked from the channel, why be there at all?
[01:09] <MTecknology> elky: I mean so if I use any bad word it won't let me send it
[01:09] <pleia2> MTecknology: that's fine, you're welcome to disagree for the specific thing, I concede that not everyone agrees what is a swear and what is not
[01:10] <pleia2> I simply grow tired of having to frequently warn you for what you admit has been poor language
[01:11] <MTecknology> I can agree that crap may be a bad word, however it's swearing by any means. The word holy is entirely a religious matter as far as being offensive and in daily language is used only for emphasis.
[01:12] <MTecknology> If I was kicked or banned for anything from before I wouldn't argue, but not being able to say 'holy crap' seems a tad extreme.
[01:12] <pleia2> the specific phrase is really not the issue
[01:12] <MTecknology> it is for me though - that's what's bothering me
[01:12] <pleia2> you're welcome to return if you work harder to restrain yourself
[01:12] <pleia2> I'm not going to give you a list of words that are not ok to say, such a thing does not exist
[01:13] <MTecknology> I don't want one
[01:13] <pleia2> you asked for one
[01:13] <MTecknology> no I didn't
[01:13] <pleia2> different things are offensive to different people, I just want you to consider this when communicating in #ubuntu-us
[01:14] <MTecknology> If I asked for one it's not in my logs this year
[01:14] <elky> MTecknology, in discussion with me, you proceeded to start asking if individual words were ok after we finished discussing previous words. that's 'wanting a list'
[01:15] <pleia2> you also specifically told me that such a list "really does need to be built"
[01:15] <MTecknology> if the case of what I said being bad, yes
[01:16] <MTecknology> When I return, will 'holy crap' be acceptable? Provided of course I refrain from other language that we can agree is bad?
[01:17] <pleia2> the issue is not the phrase itself, you just need to tone it down and chill out a bit
[01:18] <pleia2> not everything you discover is worth an expletive
[01:20] <MTecknology> agreed, I'm easily excitable
[01:20] <MTecknology> You never did answer that though, is that acceptable or not?
[01:21] <MTecknology> I'm just looking for a yes/no... nothing fancy. I've read and understood everything you've said
[01:21] <pleia2> no, it's generally not ok
[01:22] <pleia2> people swear, that's part of life, it's the consistancy with which you do that is the issue here, not the specific words
[01:22] <MTecknology> that bothers me - that's what I've been trying to argue - nothing else
[01:22] <MTecknology> I'm not trying to argue my frequency either
[01:23] <pleia2> I am just saying, the frequency is the issue, not that it happened
[01:23] <elky> MTecknology, because you're missing the point of the issue, and pleia2 is trying to get you to stop focussing on specific phrases. you're arguing the wrong case if you're going to demand every word in the english language to be rated for your convenience.
[01:24] <MTecknology> elky: I'm arguing the placement of one
[01:24] <MTecknology> if I use 'holy crap' once a day, will you remove me?
[01:24] <pleia2> once a day, yes
[01:24] <elky> MTecknology, that's one too many.
[01:24] <elky> that's one placement too many
[01:25] <MTecknology> that's what's bothering me, I'm not seeing where that is offensive
[01:25] <MTecknology> what if I said 'holy cow'... would you consider that bad?
[01:25]  * pleia2 sighs
[01:26] <elky> MTecknology, what's bothering me is you've been told 'no', yet you cannot accept the rule. i am inclined to agree with pleia2 that you have no respect for the rules at all.
[01:26] <elky> MTecknology, stop it.
[01:26] <MTecknology> I was wondering which part of that was bad
[01:26] <elky> MTecknology, what's bad is that you're asking.
[01:27] <MTecknology> I did a little reading and I'll agree that 'crap' can be considered offensive - I don't see how 'holy' can be considered such in the ubuntu namespace
[01:27] <elky> MTecknology, if you're driving along and get pulled over by a cop for doing 40 in a 30 zone, do you proceed to negotiate which of those miles was the bad one?
[01:28] <MTecknology> elky: they do have good/bad ones... if you're under 5 over they don't consider it a big deal and arguing in court (as I've done) will get any ticket waived
[01:29] <elky> MTecknology, i said 10 miles over
[01:29] <elky> now you're arguing about 5 miles
[01:29] <elky> BIG difference
[01:29] <MTecknology> exactly MY point
[01:29] <elky> accept the 10 miles and shut up about the 5.
[01:29] <MTecknology>  10 mmiles over = 'sh**' ; 4 over = 'holy crap'
[01:29] <elky> no
[01:30] <elky> holy crap is 10 miles over because pleia2 said so. you're trying to argue it's 4 miles instead. pleia2 has already said it's 10.
[01:30] <elky> accept what she says and move along like an adult.
[01:30] <elky> you're wasting her time, and mine.
[01:31] <MTecknology> please remove my ubuntu hostmask
[01:31] <elky> MTecknology, please go do something else for a while and calm down.
[01:32] <elky> go for a walk or something.
[01:33] <MTecknology> it's rainging pretty hard right now
[01:34] <elky> then find something of a similar nature
[01:34] <MTecknology> ... ya, I'll just go grab a bottle and head to the park
[01:34] <MTecknology> I'll sum up my thoughts when I get back
[01:43] <nalioth> before we start censoring folks, let's think about what we're doing
[01:44] <pleia2> this wasn't about specific censoring of words, it's a pattern of behavior marked by offensive language that has not been stopped when we've asked
[01:44] <pleia2> (he has admitted as much)
[01:44] <nalioth> then we need to make sure we're "censoring an individual" rather than language
[01:45] <pleia2> agreed
[01:45] <pleia2> as I said, it's not a huge deal if someone says an inappropriate word or phrase out of turn from time to time (we're human, it happens)
[03:24] <MTecknology> /b/b
[03:26] <MTecknology> pleia2: I've thought about everything you said good and hard. I absolutely can't agree with what you're saying. I tried to discuss it however I don't think you considered my pov. I don't think I'll return to -us anytime soon. Your actions very much bother me. I would reiterate however if you read backlog it'll be plainly obvious. I will continue to work on my loco as well as work on the locomap project because it is not ubuntu
[03:29] <MTecknology> elky: From above, I won't stop working on projects in the Ubuntu realm, however I still would like to remove the ubuntu/member portion of my hostmask. I feel that IRC is the blood of the Ubuntu community and I feel rather detatched. Perhaps after a few months I will feel better, but the outlook at rather uncertain. It won't be for a couple months before I reconsider my stance, but after a walk and some relaxing I can pretty fi
[03:30] <MTecknology> If anything was cut off, please let me know.
[03:30] <elky> MTecknology, both got truncated. pastebin instead maybe
[03:31] <MTecknology> http://mteck.pastebin.com/d665a685e
[03:34] <pleia2> I'm afraid I don't understand what you disagree with me about, you admit that your "language has been bad and I admit I haven't tried hard enough to restrain myself"
[03:34] <elky> MTecknology, you pasted the versions your client truncated
[03:34] <pleia2> I admitted that there were differing views of the specific phrase you were removed for, and explained that the problem is the continued behavior rather than specific words
[03:35] <MTecknology> pleia2: I disagree about 'holy crap' it's what I've been tyring to discuss. You said if I were to use it I would be removed again.
[03:36] <elky> MTecknology, which would be because you'd been told not to but did anyway.
[03:36] <MTecknology> elky: I'm reading that and it's not truncated - just funky spacing from my client
[03:37] <elky> which would indicate your lack of ability to respect the requests of other people
[03:37] <MTecknology> elky: http://mteck.pastebin.com/d6c9b5795
[03:38] <MTecknology> elky: I'm not trying to argue anymore. I'm not even trying to discuss
[03:38] <pleia2> yes, just like we warned you not to keep repeating other words, but you continued to do so
[03:38] <pleia2> as I said, it's the repetition and continued disregard for our requests to stop that is the problem
[03:38] <elky> MTecknology, i'm not going to remove your cloak just because you're disagreeing with one of the hundred+ channels.
[03:39] <elky> that would be ridiculously premature.
[03:42] <MTecknology> pleia2: if you'd just said that the issue is that I used a word that could possibly be considered offensive which would be fine except for the repeated offensisive language. I would not have argued. What I said, I do not see as offensive and I fail too see where it is offensive beyond the age of which others can read/write.
[03:42] <elky> she did say that several times.
[03:43] <MTecknology> pleia2: you did not do that, I tried to approach you about how I felt that specific language was ok and you disgreed and you would not discuss the specific language. You kept referencing past rather than discussing the specific language I used which is language I have not used before and previous precedents dictate are ok.
[03:45] <elky> you are contradicting yourself.
[03:48] <MTecknology> here's what it really truely comes down to. pleia2 will win because it's gray line and she's boss. Here's a torvalds quote, "If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do." No matter how true the last part, it doesn't really matter.
[03:48] <MTecknology> I'm going to leave the -us discussion at that unless someone wishes it be discussed further.
[04:41] <MTecknology> pleia2: If I use language I have not used previously, will you please warn me that it is not acceptable? You have now informed me that 'holy crap' is not acceptable in #ubuntu-us. I will accept that because 'you're the boss' but I was never given warning prior to that. I obviously felt that language was not offensive and you failed to prove to me that it is. I would like to make some sort of truce that will be in your favor. C
[04:42] <pleia2> you got cut off again
[04:42] <MTecknology> where at?
[04:42] <pleia2> in your favor. C
[04:42] <MTecknology> in your favor. Can you at least agree to that?
[04:42] <pleia2> regardless, yes that is acceptable
[04:43] <pleia2> I never really wanted you to leave the team :) it just seemed like you didn't care to change your behavior (for other phrases you knew were not great) and that was troubling
[04:44] <MTecknology> elky: I'm still not certain of the hostmask thing but a certain GC was able to help me reaffirm my ubuntu community relations.
[04:45] <MTecknology> pleia2: I do care, that's why I used that instead. That's also why it bothered me that you removed me for such
[04:45] <MTecknology> n
[04:46] <pleia2> ok
[19:23] <m4v> jpds: ping
[20:44] <jpds> m4v: Hola.
[20:46] <m4v> jpds: es sobre la fundación de #kubuntu-es, Riddell ahora está deacuerdo en sacarle a Timido su posición de fundador
[20:46] <jpds> m4v: Para mi, es todo tuyo si quieres.
[20:48] <m4v> jpds: nosotros (Elidix, krawek y yo) pensabamos en ofrecertelo a vos, pero Riddell me comentó que te distanciaste de kde y como no estás tanto en ku-es como antes, que capaz no estarías interesado en asumir ese rol
[20:49] <m4v> jpds: bueno, si no te interesa realmente, seguramente lo asumiré yo
[20:49] <niko> m4v: ubuntu concil don't put a status on that ?
[20:50] <niko> who manage u-it ?
[20:50] <remix_tj> niko: ubot-it ?
[20:50] <m4v> niko: I only talked with Riddell, I don't know about the ubuntu council, we're talking about kubuntu-es here
[20:50] <niko> ( question about remove or not uBOTu-fr from #ubuntu-it )
[20:51] <remix_tj> niko: jester- is the manager
[20:51] <niko> ok :)
[20:51] <remix_tj> but i'm also one of irc team
[20:51] <remix_tj> now i ask :-)
[20:51] <niko> and for #ubuntu-ru ?
[20:51] <niko> cause i receive A4tech request about hosting or provide bot for u-ru
[22:36] <remix_tj> niko: you can remove ubotu-fr from u-it, jester says
[22:36] <remix_tj> thanks for the "rental" :-)
[22:36] <remix_tj> 'hight
[22:37] <remix_tj> 'night
[22:40] <niko> !part #ubuntu-it