[00:25] <pleia2> oh hey, you guys are experts, a fellow in an ubuntu channel is trying to argue with me that "holy crap" is not bad and wants a list of bad words/phrases he shouldn't say in ubuntu channels
[00:25] <pleia2> obviously such a list is nonsense, but I am not sure how to handle this
[00:25] <pleia2> ("family friendly" didn't work, apparently he says this in front of kids too)
[00:25] <pleia2> this user has a history of bad language, has been warned repeatedly
[00:30] <Seeker`> "whatever the channel operator deems to be bad language"
[00:30] <Seeker`> I believe that there is something in
[00:30] <Seeker`> !guidelines
[00:30] <Seeker`> that states that ops have the final say on what is/isn't appropriate
[00:31] <Seeker`> pleia2: can I ask which channel?
[00:31] <elky> pleia2, let me guess, this is mteck?
[00:32] <elky> he's come crying to me in PM
[00:32] <pleia2> elky: MTecknology in #ubuntu-us
[00:32] <pleia2> Seeker`: thank you
[00:33] <pleia2> I haven't banned him (just removed), and told him he could return if he can sort out how to conduct himself
[00:34] <pleia2> but he's having a difficult time understanding that his frequent expletives are not welcome
[00:35] <elky> pleia2, how do you expect people to express exlaimation?
[00:35] <elky> 'by golly'?
[00:37] <pleia2> I'm really not sure :)
[00:37] <pleia2> and it doesn't bug me if it's infrequent (even if I might joke about a swear jar) but this has been pretty constant, daily "WTF?!" "holy crap!" etc
[00:38] <elky> the former i can sympathise with, but the latter i just cant... there's a game called 'craps' for crying out loud.
[00:39] <pleia2> it very well might be a regional thing
[00:39] <elky> and you are in a different region of the US to him?
[00:39] <pleia2> I am not sure I would have said anything if I hadn't just spoken to him an hour before about "WTF?!"
[00:40] <pleia2> yeah, he's quite a bit further west
[00:41] <Seeker`> elky: I think the existance of a game called "craps" is probably coincidental
[00:41] <elky> Seeker`, here 'craps' means 'the runs'
[00:42] <elky> so unless people are not allowed to say various other non-s words for defecation in the channel...
[00:42] <elky> pleia2, he's trying to claim it's not daily
[00:42] <pleia2> a few times a week
[02:33]  * Pici personally doesn't have a problem with the word 'crap'
[02:37] <elky> Pici, it's not so much the word as the constant use despite being asked not to
[02:44] <Pici> elky: yes, well that would be annoying
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> elky: btw, it has always been my understanding that the game name is unrelated.  anywho..back to life
[03:23] <Flannel> It comes from the french word for toad.
[03:24] <elky> tonyyarusso, my point was the word itself is ambiguous
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> elky: Fine by me - I'm not really trying to give input on that aspect.
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> Flannel: Really?  Interesting.  How are toads related to dice?
[03:27] <elky> in aus, crap is an acceptable word for poop, 'the craps' is diarrhoea and a crapper is a toilet. an i find it hard to swallow that a culture that names a bear 'pooh' is so allergic to poop words 
[03:28] <Flannel> No idea.
[03:28] <Flannel> I just read wikipedia
[03:34] <Flannel> tonyyarusso: someone suggests that it might be because the french brought it over to the US
[04:33] <ajavid> I'm here.
[04:33] <Flannel> ajavid: Shoving someone to ##windows for asking how to remove grub from their boot.ini is *not* support
[04:33] <ajavid> Flannel, look at previous history. I was never rude to anyone, and still am not. I am NOT supporting widnows
[04:33] <ajavid> I'm not telling anyone how to edit boot.ini
[04:33] <Flannel> No, but you need to tell them *what* to edit from it
[04:33] <ajavid> regardless of what you may think constitutes rudeness
[04:34] <ajavid> Flannel, if you go to boot.ini and you see wubi, would you remove windows?
[04:34] <Flannel> As I just said: I don't care about how you feel about windows.  Nor do the people you're helping.  If someone tried Ubuntu and chose not to keep it, for *whatever* reason, giving them the finger as they're leaving is *not* going to get them to come back.
[04:34] <ajavid> I highly doubt it.
[04:34] <ajavid> Flannel, you're a victim of your own perception
[04:34] <ajavid> there is nothing I can do about that
[04:35] <Flannel> ajavid: If you are dismissive to users like that again, you will be removed.
[04:35] <ajavid> I am/was not dismissive
[04:35] <Flannel> It reflects poorly on you, and our community.
[04:35] <ajavid> Flannel, please, look at at the past hours log
[04:35] <ajavid> Flannel, see how many people I'ved helped and how many thanks I've reciieved and how nice and courteous I've been
[04:35] <Flannel> Helping N people doesn't give you the right to be rude to 1.
[04:35] <ajavid> Flannel, kindly treat me with a bit more respect
[04:35] <Flannel> Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
[04:36] <ajavid> Flannel, you're right, but I Was not being rude
[04:36] <ajavid> I agree, no reason/right to be rude to anyone, that is, IF i was eing rude
[04:36] <ajavid> I Wasn't (typo control-b)
[04:38] <ajavid> if they ask how to remove wubi from boot menu, and I say, edit boot.ini, its in there, and go to ##windows to find out how to edit boot.ini, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that
[04:38] <ajavid> which is exactly what happened
[04:38] <Flannel> "Edit this file!!" isn't being helpful.
[04:38] <ajavid> you're saying I should have specifically told him to remove the wubi line from the file
[04:38] <ajavid> if you edit the file, and you see wubi line, thats wha tyou remove
[04:38] <Flannel> something along those lines, yes.
[04:38] <ajavid> I'm sorry i don't treat people like complete idiots
[04:38] <ajavid> you can feel free to do so, I won't
[04:39] <Flannel> ajavid: You wouldn't be treating him like an idiot, you'd be answering his question.
[04:39] <ajavid> Flannel, I think my answer was good enough.
[04:39] <Flannel> How much more effort would it have taken you to be more specific?
[04:39] <ajavid> hardly any
[04:39] <Flannel> Practically none.  How much better would your support have been?
[04:39] <Flannel> many times moreso.
[04:39] <ajavid> it would have been better, I agree
[04:39] <ajavid> but it was fine as it was too
[04:40] <ajavid> you're point is valid, it could have been better, but it was fine
[04:40] <ajavid> there was nothing WRONG with it
[04:40] <Flannel> "edit this file" is not nearly as helpful as it ought to be.
[04:40] <ajavid> I dont' think we're going to see eye to eye on this
[04:40] <ajavid> if you feel the need to remove me, that is your perogative, feel free to do so
[04:40] <elky> Flannel, did he at least check the competence of the person first?
[04:41] <Flannel> elky: No, he just said "edit boot.ini" when someone asked about it
[04:41] <elky> eep
[04:41] <Flannel> and then said ask in ##windows
[04:41] <ajavid> no
[04:41] <ajavid> paste actual log 
[04:41] <Flannel> Alright.
[04:41] <ajavid> I lost mine, I dunno exactly whatI said
[04:41] <ajavid> sorry
[04:42] <Flannel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/196778/
[04:42] <nalioth> i'm personally not seeing an issue.
[04:43] <ajavid> nalioth, neither am I, however Flannel is giving me a hard time about it,and I didn't feel that is right
[04:43] <ajavid> if you can convince me that I did make a mistake and I was rude, I will apologize to whoever 
[04:43] <elky> nalioth, i am. you dont tell people to edit windows .ini files
[04:44] <Flannel> nalioth: ##windows shouldn't have to know how to deal with grub
[04:44] <ajavid> Flannel, you miss the point completely
[04:44] <Flannel> ajavid: Yes, you despise windows, I know.
[04:44] <ajavid> I sent him to ##windows to figure out HOW to edit the boot.ini file
[04:44] <Flannel> ajavid: Just *skip* the question next time
[04:44] <ajavid> as it is not a trivial as editing
[04:44] <ajavid> you  have to set soe system/hidden attributes off
[04:44] <Flannel> ajavid: And ##windows knows what to remove?
[04:45] <ajavid> I refus to support this in ubuntu
[04:45] <ajavid> i sent him to windows to find out HOW to edit boot.ini
[04:45] <Flannel> ajavid: then *dont* but don't half-ass support either.
[04:45] <elky> ajavid, then ignore it next time
[04:45] <ajavid> and I told him, the entry is in boot.ini, edit this file
[04:45] <ajavid> 10:40 <+           Flannel> ajavid: Yes, you despise windows, I know.
[04:45] <ajavid> desctruvtive, uncalled for
[04:45] <ajavid> 10:40 <+           Flannel> ajavid: Just *skip* the question next time
[04:45] <ajavid> not always 
[04:45] <ajavid> I still do not think I did anything wrong
[04:46] <ajavid> 10:41 <+           Flannel> ajavid: then *dont* but don't half-ass support either.
[04:46] <elky> ajavid, you are not helping your situation at all.
[04:46] <ajavid> I have never provided half ass support
[04:46] <ajavid> I'm standing up for myself.
[04:46] <elky> ajavid, yes you have. that pastebin contains it.
[04:46] <ajavid> elky, and I agreed with hima bout it being better, however it was fine as it was
[04:46] <elky> ajavid, no it was not fine.
[04:46] <ajavid> edit boot.ini, go to windows to learn how to edit boot.ini
[04:47] <ajavid> if you edit boot ini and you you see wubi, be sure to remvoe something else, I suppose telling him exactly 
[04:47] <ajavid> 20:24 < sirninja> How do I remove ubuntu as a boot option after I uninstall wubi?
[04:48] <ajavid> he did not ask how to remove it form boot.ini
[04:48] <ajavid> as my understanding goes
[04:48] <ajavid> telling him to look in boot.ini will do it for him
[04:48] <ajavid> edit boot.ini, and rmove the wubi line
[04:48] <ajavid> Flannel
[04:48] <ajavid> ss arguemtn is that I didn't mention the 2nd part
[04:48] <elky> ajavid, you dont just tell people to edit ini files.
[04:48] <ajavid> which I didn't think was neccesery
[04:48] <ajavid> as editing boo.ini implies that the wubi entry is there
[04:48] <ajavid> like I said
[04:49] <ajavid> I wasn't trying to treat him like an idot
[04:49] <elky> ajavid, you're not helping yourself at all.
[04:49] <ajavid> if you still do not see my logic or reasoning then there is littl I can do
[04:49] <ajavid> elky, and what exactly does that mean? 
[04:50] <ajavid> I stand up for myself and somehow that merits a 'threat' that I'm not helping myself?
[04:50] <ajavid> what exactly is your reason for telling me this? that I'll be bannd?
[04:50] <elky> ajavid, it means that you're going around in circles, which is not helpful for yourself.
[04:51] <ajavid> apparantly, with all due respect, Flannel is a bit unreasonable right now
[04:51] <ajavid> which is why I thought that repeating myself a few times might help it sink in. I'll stop.
[04:51] <ajavid> Anyway, I do not believe I did anythign wrong.
[04:51] <elky> ajavid, and we believe you did. as it's our channel, it's our judgement that counts.
[04:52] <Flannel> ajavid: Just don't do it again, and there won't be any issues.  We already went over the cost/benefit analysis of proper support
[04:52] <ajavid> I've provied support almost everyday in #debian for the past 8-9 years. Never once have I been treated like this for trying to help someone.
[04:52] <ajavid> This is just plain wrong.
[04:52] <elky> ajavid, ubuntu is not debian.
[04:53] <ajavid> apparantly, in your self rightousness you fail to respect people in some manner
[04:53] <elky> debian lets anything fly. we dont.
[04:53] <ajavid> you shoudl be ashamed of yourself for imposing BS on people like this
[04:54] <ajavid> wow. great way to deal with issues.
[04:55] <ajavid> Really, with all due respect. Some of you maybe reasonable enough, but some are not. Quite honestly, SHAME on you. I'm out.
[04:55] <elky> riddance.
[04:55] <elky> he's not even in either debian main channel that i can see
[04:56] <elky> ah, there he is
[04:59] <elky> im yet to see any support in there from him, but i have found him talking about wanting to put his *cough* in a computer...
[05:00] <elky> and how the army is what you do when you want to kill people legally...
[05:00] <elky> this is just getting worse and worse
[07:42] <Myrtti> nalioth: I think ubot3 is broken again
[08:21] <Myrtti> ubot3: ping
[08:21] <ubot3> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[08:22] <Myrtti> ubot3: info pidgin
[09:33] <jussio1> grumle. 
[09:33] <jussio1> when did I part last?
[09:33] <Myrtti> [10:07] ~~~jussi01 [n=jussi01@ubuntu/member/jussi01] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
[09:34] <jussio1> ok, so only 1 hour or so ago
[09:34] <jussio1> hrm
[09:34] <Myrtti> 90mins
[09:34]  * jussio1 goes to call people to sort out stuff
[12:36] <Myrtti> ubot3: info xournal
[13:01] <nalioth> is ubottu working?
[13:01] <jussi01> !test
[13:01] <jussi01> nalioth: looks that way...
[13:02] <nalioth> ubottu: info konqueror
[13:02] <nalioth> !info konqueror
[13:02] <jussi01> !info waon
[13:02] <jussi01> hehe
[13:02] <jussi01> ubot3: !info waon
[13:04] <nalioth> well, ubot3 usually only breaks when the db goes south
[13:05] <nalioth> so i'm pretty clueless
[13:05] <nalioth> ubot3: info konqueror
[13:05] <ubot3> konqueror: KDE 4's advanced file manager, web browser and document viewer. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid2 (intrepid), package size 1321 kB, installed size 3884 kB
[13:05] <nalioth> guess supybots need a restart every couple of months
[13:08] <jussi01> nalioth: yeah
[13:08] <nalioth> wonder if i ought to make that a cronjob
[13:09] <Daviey> Well why not put the supybots on a poor hosting provider and allow them to inadvertently reboot the server, spawning supybot on reboot? :)
[13:09] <Daviey> Dreamhost is my first thought :)
[13:09] <elky> irc is forbidden on dreamhost
[13:10] <Daviey> depends what page you read.. 
[13:10] <Daviey> but i suspect you missed the point
[13:10] <Myrtti> IST VERBOTEN!
[13:10] <elky> Daviey, i have a dreamhost account. i suspect you miss my point.
[13:11] <Daviey> ok
[13:11] <nalioth> Daviey: i've had DH for years and not had any issues
[13:11] <nalioth> elky: it's not? i'm running several cgi gateways there
[13:12] <elky> nalioth, they rather suck at monitoring
[13:12] <elky> nalioth, although, you probably signed up when they didnt have the explicit statement in their TOS
[13:12] <Daviey> nalioth: sure, but the servers do tend to get rebooted every <30 days
[13:13] <nalioth> Daviey: i've not run any continous processes, so wouldn't know
[13:14] <Daviey> nalioth: ~2 years ago i tried to run irssi+screen with them.. Having a cronjob to re-start irssi was "interesting"
[13:15] <Daviey> (for clarification, it wasn't a serious suggestion..)
[13:24] <jussi01> Daviey: we have the bots on a server that we can do pretty much anything to...
[13:30] <Daviey> jussi01: sure, it was a non-serious suggestion pointing to automating the process.
[13:30] <Daviey> Wish i hadn't of said anything now :)
[13:32]  * nalioth throws Daviey out the window
[13:32]  * nalioth throws a custard afterward
[13:33]  * jussi01 bites Daviey
[13:33] <Daviey> nalioth: your custard is lumpy :(
[13:33]  * Myrtti throws a bucket of marmite
[13:34] <popey> \o/
[13:34] <elky> jussi01, well, we have the bots on numerous vpses actually
[13:34] <elky> marmite? om nom nom.
[13:34] <jussi01> hello popey
[13:34] <elky> remind me to get some cheese tomorrow so i can have marmite and cheese on crackers plzkthx
[13:35] <nalioth> elky: you prefer marmite over vegemite? or 'our mate' ?
[13:35] <elky> nalioth, indeed i do.
[13:36] <nalioth> i don't like vegemite, as it's got a higher melting point than UK marmite
[13:36] <elky> marmite is the original and definately the better
[13:39] <jussi01> vegemite is better. and elky, HOW UNAUSTRALIAN ARE YOU!!!
[13:39] <Myrtti> I want to kill authors of epiphany :-(
[13:42] <popey> vegemite is marmite for wusses
[13:42] <popey> :)
[13:42] <jussi01> popey: bite me!
[13:42] <popey> vegemite has a smoother less harsh flavour imo
[13:42]  * popey nibbles jussi01 
[13:43] <elky> popey, and it's got a tackier aftertaste
[13:43] <popey> yus
[13:44] <elky> jussi01, dont make me send you a jar of promite.
[13:44] <elky> now that stuff is foul
[13:45] <jussi01> elky: yeah, well thats true
[13:47] <nalioth> i like marmite, as i can drop a spoonful in my cooking and it melts nicely - vegemite requires a higher temp to melt
[15:05] <Myrtti> nnngnghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghhghghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate people who give lmgtfy links
[15:05] <Pici> +1
[15:06] <Myrtti> "but next time he'll know how to google it"
[15:06] <Pici> In a support channel?
[15:06] <Myrtti> yup
[15:06] <Myrtti> -fi
[15:09] <Myrtti> why do I bother? I only get bad tempered in ubuntu channels these days
[15:10] <Pici> Tell them that the answer is unacceptable
[15:13] <Myrtti> Pici: he's already protested my complain with "but next time he'll know how to google it"
[15:13] <Myrtti> I'm stumped
[15:13] <nalioth> beats the alternative google URL
[15:13] <Myrtti> ooh, now he gave the link to the first page result
[15:14] <Pici> I feel that its not good behavior for a support channel. 
[15:14]  * jussio1 wonders where this is...
[15:14] <Myrtti> jussio1: the JFGI thing?
[15:14] <Myrtti> witnessed in #ubuntu-fi
[15:15] <jussio1> Myrtti: yeah, Im not in many chans if you didnt notice
[15:15] <jussio1> ooh, skype does /me :D
[15:15] <Myrtti> sure, it does replaces as well
[15:16] <Myrtti> atleast on the windows client
[15:16] <jussio1> :D
[15:16] <Myrtti> misstype something and correct it on the following line with s/client/application/
[15:21] <genii-around> Is jussi's site up and down today ? I seem to be getting a lot of disconncts
[15:21] <jussio1> genii-around: yes
[15:21] <nalioth> jussio1: I told you that random genii-disconnect script was not random enough  :P
[15:21] <jussio1> genii-around: power outages today
[15:22] <genii-around> nalioth: Bah! ;)
[15:22] <jussio1> nalioth: rofl
[15:22] <genii-around> jussio1: OK. I'll stay on Konv then for a while
[15:22] <jussio1> genii-around: Ill let you know when it comes back up. 
[15:22] <genii-around> Thanks :)
[17:05] <jussio1> !ircc
[17:06] <jussio1> ooh, someone updated it already.  :)
[17:06] <Pici> jussio1: yes, the person from the factoid factory
[17:07] <jussio1> Pici: nice :d
[17:07] <Pici> I didn't touch !appeal, we should touch the wiki page it references instead.
[17:07] <jussio1> yeah
[17:07] <jussio1> someone should do that...
[17:13]  * Myrtti assigns jussi01 on the job
[17:14] <Myrtti> first rule of the internets: "do not say 'someone should do it'"
[20:33]  * Pici thinks that <also> is hackish
[20:41] <popey> vcghjkgfdcx == Samuel_AFK
[20:42] <popey> who was banned from -uk and has changed nick to evade that ban
[20:42] <popey> and changed username
[22:46] <nalioth> hmmm
[22:48]  * genii-around sips
[22:56] <genii-around> I think bazhang's connection is broken
[22:57] <nalioth> genii-around: how about the sky?  blue, dya think?
[22:59]  * genii-around looks outside to make sure
[22:59] <genii-around> Sorta grey today :)