[00:01] <Riddell> hello
[00:01] <Riddell> who's all here for a meeting?
[00:01] <nhandler> o/
[00:01] <apachelogger> \o
[00:01] <Quintasan> \o
[00:02] <Mamarok> \o
[00:02] <neversfelde> more or less :)
[00:02] <lex79> \o
[00:02] <tsimpson> it's insanely late, but I'm here
[00:02]  * nhandler is going to try and attend two meetings at once
[00:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna is attending via http://paste.ubuntu.com/197289/ :D
[00:03] <Riddell> Tonio_, seele, Nightrose, yuriy: council ping
[00:03] <Nightrose> council pong? :D
[00:03] <Riddell> shtylman_: I don't think there's anything especially needing you
[00:03] <shtylman_> cool
[00:04] <Riddell> hmm, a bit short of council the night
[00:04] <Riddell> good thing we're going to get a new one :)
[00:04] <apachelogger> lol
[00:04] <seele> hmm?
[00:04] <Quintasan> :D
[00:04] <Riddell> let's start with membership
[00:05] <yuriy> hi all
[00:05] <Riddell> lex79: want to go first?
[00:05] <lex79> yeah
[00:05] <Riddell> could you tell us who you are and why you want to be into kubuntu?
[00:05] <lex79>  I'm Alessandro Ghersi
[00:05] <lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi
[00:05] <lex79> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/alessandro-ghersi
[00:05] <lex79> I helped in kde 4.2.3, .2.4 packaging and in 4.3beta2,
[00:06] <lex79> also I did the backport for Jaunty
[00:06] <lex79> I keep update some packages in Universe/Multiverse
[00:06] <lex79> I wrote many wiki pages in Italian wiki and in my loco team I'm member
[00:06] <lex79> of marketing team
[00:06] <lex79> I partceipe in italian cd project and stickers project
[00:06] <lex79> *partecipe
[00:07] <lex79> and I want become kubuntu member because kubuntu is cool :D
[00:07] <nhandler> lex79 has my support for becoming a Kubuntu Member. He has been a hard working ninja, and definitely deserves the title of Kubuntu Member.
[00:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna says: "Alessandro is an excellent candidate for Kubuntu membership. I stole him as my minion when apachelogger left, and he has shown most excellent work during the KDE packaging sprints. (Quick learner) Give him membership so I can stop sponsoring bzrish stuff for him and can use him more as my minion. >:3"
[00:07] <lex79> oh :D
[00:07] <Riddell> lex79: how did you learn packaging?
[00:07] <seele> hehe
[00:08]  * apachelogger says: "I luv lex79 being a kubuntu minion :D"
[00:08] <lex79> Riddell: with wiki...
[00:08] <lex79> I read many wiki pages
[00:08]  * Nightrose likes new minions... hmmmm
[00:08] <Riddell> lex79: is the documentation intuitive to read?
[00:08] <neversfelde> new?
[00:09] <lex79> Riddell: sometimes not
[00:09] <apachelogger> lex79: what is the status of kubuntu/linux/floss in italy?
[00:09] <Nightrose> lex79: do you use a translated version of kubuntu? or the english one?
[00:10] <lex79> English one
[00:10] <Nightrose> k
[00:10] <apachelogger> lex79: should use translated to squash issues early :P
[00:10] <Riddell> lex79: but you translate the deb descriptions?
[00:10] <lex79> apachelogger: users in Italy use only windows :)
[00:10] <lex79> Riddell: yes
[00:10] <apachelogger> jeez, that really gotta change :D
[00:10] <lex79> there is many works to do for translation deb description
[00:11] <lex79> too packages in archive :)
[00:11] <Riddell> lex79: what do you think most needs improving in Kubuntu?
[00:11] <seele> lex79: are you a student or working?
[00:11] <lex79> add software is not easy in kubuntu
[00:12] <lex79> in ubuntu i think is better
[00:12] <lex79> seele: working
[00:12] <neversfelde> lex79: that has nothin to do with membership, but I'd like to know how kubuntu is integrated in the italian loco. Probably we could have a talk about it somedays?
[00:12] <seele> lex79: this is done as a hobby or do you work on open source as well?
[00:13] <lex79> neversfelde: in italian forum ubuntu is most appreciated than kubuntu i think
[00:13] <lex79> dunno for why...
[00:13] <lex79> seele: hobby
[00:13] <apachelogger> lack of  promotion I would think
[00:14] <lex79> for now
[00:14] <lex79> apachelogger: yes
[00:14] <lex79> :(
[00:14] <apachelogger> need to fix that really :)
[00:14] <lex79> yes I think, I'm trying
[00:15] <yuriy> lex79: what are your goals for the karmic cycle and beyond?
[00:15] <lex79> packaging and packaging :) each release of kde
[00:15] <lex79> and fix bugs if I can
[00:15] <Riddell> yay
[00:15] <Riddell> +1 from me for packaging and packaging
[00:15] <apachelogger> +1 fro bug fixing :P
[00:15] <lex79> :)
[00:16] <seele> +1 for wiki/documentation since nixternal isn't here to cheer
[00:16] <Nightrose> +1 from me for packaging help
[00:16] <yuriy> +1
[00:16] <Riddell> looks like +1s all around, congratulations lex79
[00:17] <lex79> thanks guys
[00:17] <neversfelde> lex79: I'll come back to you with this topic, I am really interested in how kubuntu is promoted in other countries
[00:17] <Quintasan> grats lex79
[00:17] <neversfelde> lex79: congrats
[00:17] <Mamarok> congratulations lex79 :)
[00:17] <lex79> neversfelde: ok....
[00:17] <Riddell> onto the agenda https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[00:17] <lex79> thanks :)
[00:17] <nhandler> Congrats lex79
[00:17]  * apachelogger hugs lex79 and hands him a cookie
[00:17] <Riddell> Karmic spec review https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicSpecs
[00:17] <lex79> apachelogger: :D
[00:17] <Riddell> anyone any queries or comments about the specs we wrote up at UDS?
[00:18] <Riddell> it's a challenging bunch of targets
[00:18] <seele> what is this ubiquity blueprint? i see mockups listed as a todo item
[00:18] <apachelogger> I find the social stuff spec rather utopistic
[00:18] <neversfelde> yes, I would like to bring the missing import feature for ssl certs in arora to attention
[00:18] <apachelogger> shoudl probably write a mail about that to the list though
[00:18] <yuriy> lol @ "UDS Creator"
[00:19]  * Mamarok wonders what that is
[00:19] <seele> the social stuff seems like it should be karmic +1. social desktop is a 4.4 goal
[00:19] <Riddell> seele: shtylman_ had some mockups, we'll make sure he sends them your way
[00:19] <yuriy> a little more than mockups even, I think that was a screenshot
[00:19] <seele> i also have some questions about this netbook thing
[00:19] <Riddell> "USB Creator"  I was tired and at the end of a long week when tidying up that wiki page
[00:20] <Riddell> seele: probably best to grab tonio, ScottK, rgreening for netbook, they're most interested in it
[00:21] <Riddell> we can start off with social stuff in karmic, there's the open desktop plasmoid and micro blogging to be made use of
[00:21] <seele> and is webbrowser just a question if we package arora or is to it replace firefox/konq as default?
[00:21] <apachelogger> seele: I would mail the list about netbook questions too
[00:21] <Riddell> seele: it's to replace konq as default (if they do everything we ask them to do)
[00:21] <seele> hmm
[00:21] <seele> i have irc on my todo list as well
[00:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: I do not think the open desktop plasmoid will be all that useful
[00:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: also we have to keep in mine the space constraints
[00:22] <apachelogger> using those 2 plasmoids will probably eliminate anything else on the desktop
[00:22] <neversfelde> Riddell: the open desktop plasmoid is very buggy, do you think it will reach a usable state till KDE 4.3 release?
[00:22] <apachelogger> well possibly we can desktop folder in
[00:22] <socceroos> Hello fellows, just read the news about the OpenOffice KDE4 theme upgrade
[00:22] <apachelogger> but that is it
[00:22] <socceroos> any ideas where I can get this for intrepid?
[00:22]  * seele wonders what the open desktop plasmoid is
[00:23] <javi> can I suggest something?
[00:23] <Mamarok> what's the advantage of Arora over Konq? Acid3 test only?
[00:23] <Riddell> neversfelde: maybe not, I believe some of the bugs are down to qt graphicsview issues, so I'll probably put it in and we can decide at beta time if it's sensible to keep it
[00:23] <apachelogger> Mamarok: faster
[00:23] <apachelogger> Mamarok: more reliable
[00:23] <apachelogger> nsplugin doesn't eat your memory
[00:23] <Riddell> Mamarok: able to read slashdot.org
[00:23] <apachelogger> etc. etc.
[00:23] <Quintasan> I think Arora is faster than Konq, and flash works for me
[00:23] <Mamarok> does it use webkit?
[00:23] <apachelogger> Mamarok: yes
[00:24] <Riddell> socceroos: we're in a meeting.  there's no packages yet.
[00:24] <Mamarok> great :)
[00:24] <apachelogger> QWebKit it is
[00:24] <Riddell> javi: sure, if it's relevant
[00:24] <Mamarok> konq tends to die often in webkit mode for me in 4.2.90
[00:24] <socceroos> Riddell: apologies. Thanks for the info.
[00:24] <neversfelde> Riddell: k, it lacks features too. When we integrate it, we should create a wiki page of what it is and what it is for. I would do this, if it is wanted?
[00:24] <apachelogger> Mamarok: that is not comparable
[00:24] <apachelogger> the webkit kpart is rather awful currently
[00:24] <Riddell> neversfelde: please
[00:24] <apachelogger> which is why we are pondering a change to another browser at all
[00:25] <seele> wouldnt it make sense to maybe install arora alongside konq for one release before making a decision to switch to it exclusively?
[00:25] <Mamarok> what's the view of upstream on that?
[00:25] <javi> Kubuntu doesn't use the activities yet, it's something the user has to add. Maybe it would be a good idea to add two activities by default, one with the default desktop, another with the new plasmoids or something like that
[00:25] <Riddell> we'll keep konq on the CD
[00:25] <seele> it's a pretty new browser and although it's popular, it doesnt have nearly as many users as konq and firefox
[00:25] <kb9vqf> how is aurora better than, say, Firefox?
[00:25] <Quintasan> kb9vqf: lighter and faster
[00:26] <Riddell> kb9vqf: it's KDE (well semi, Qt with bits of KDE)
[00:26] <Mamarok> javi: users can add activities in Jaunty too
[00:26] <kb9vqf> Ah, thanks :)
[00:26] <neversfelde> does somebody know if arora realizes the ssl certs imported with konqui?
[00:26] <Riddell> Mamarok: upstream Arora is all for it
[00:26] <javi> I know, what I mean is it doesn't use activities by default
[00:26] <Mamarok> what about upstream KDE?
[00:26] <apachelogger> javi: that would be eating user's memory by default, which is rather bad, espcially since activities are a discoverable feature, so using them by default might not be too visible to the user but actually using up system resources
[00:26] <Riddell> javi: is interesting, although activities don't seem to be sensibly discoverable yet
[00:27] <Riddell> neversfelde: it uses Qt's certificates, which I believe are the same as KDE's in KDE 4
[00:27] <Riddell> Mamarok: you're upstream KDE, you tell us :)
[00:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: KDE still got KSSL
[00:27] <apachelogger> which is completely independent from Qt
[00:28] <Quintasan> +1 for javi's suggestion, Social activity seems like a good idea
[00:28] <Mamarok> Riddell: so are most of us, no?
[00:28] <neversfelde> generally I think it is not a bad idea to get a real an standalone webbrowser along dolphin as filemanager, but I am afraid that arora is in a to early state of development. I am looking forward in changing this with upstream authors :). But seems to be a very good idea to keep konqui for a while.
[00:28] <seele> +1 neversfelde
[00:28] <apachelogger> +1
[00:28] <kb9vqf> +1
[00:28] <Riddell> neversfelde: that's why we sent them a list of things we'd like to see
[00:28] <Mamarok> +1
[00:28] <apachelogger> but we should at least try to push it along
[00:28] <Riddell> and why Konqueror will stay on the CD
[00:29] <apachelogger> quassel made good progress for 9.04
[00:29] <javi> maybe one could be Default, or Desktop and the other Highlights, New on Karmic, ...
[00:29] <apachelogger> if arora can compete with that we should have a sensible product at some point :D
[00:29] <seele> i hope quassel can get that amarok patch working to remove the lines.. i think it will help the look and feel
[00:29] <Mamarok> apachelogger: what an elegant transition :)
[00:29] <neversfelde> ok, I did not know that konqui will stay on the cd. Is it possible to keep konqui standard and have arora as the second choice on the cd, if upstream can not implement the wanted features?
[00:30] <neversfelde> just to prepare it for beeing default browser in karmic +1?
[00:30] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes we'll decide at beta time which to set as default
[00:30] <neversfelde> nice :)
[00:30] <apachelogger> that being said, we need to transit bookmarks
[00:30] <apachelogger> by default
[00:30] <apachelogger> which is kinda fancy I assume, something we need to look into nonetheless
[00:31] <yuriy> neversfelde: not much point in having arora there if it's not the default. the whole point is not to have the user start out screaming my sites don't work
[00:31] <apachelogger> yuriy: like we had that before? :P
[00:31] <apachelogger> we have like 10 bug reports related to that topic
[00:32] <yuriy> sure, everyone just goes and installs firefox
[00:32] <apachelogger> righto
[00:32] <apachelogger> arora will not change that fact IMHO
[00:32] <apachelogger> firefox is just more scalable and more public etc.
[00:32] <javi> apachelogger: only addon support will do, and that's not on aroras roadmap, am I right?
[00:32] <neversfelde> yuriy: I think it should be easier to support a user, that does not like konqui, because it is not working, when araor is installed by default. Probably changing the webbrowser is also a log time task and we should be careful in karmic
[00:33] <neversfelde> btw I like arora :)
[00:33] <Riddell> let's move on
[00:33]  * apachelogger thinks this is mailing list topic anyway :)
[00:33] <neversfelde> +1
[00:33] <Riddell> Kubuntu Council membership refresh
[00:34] <Riddell> at this time of year we traditionally replace half the council membership
[00:34] <apachelogger> javi: addon support for firefox addons really .. because it will be pretty difficult for arora to build up an addon database as big as firefox'
[00:34] <Riddell> nixternal, Tonio and yuriy have said they can step down for fresh blood
[00:35] <Riddell> so we're looking for volunteers and nominations to step up
[00:35] <nhandler> I nominate JontheEchidna
[00:35] <apachelogger> <= volunteer
[00:35] <Riddell> I belive the community council wants to run a poll to decide who gets on so it'll be a bit of a beauty pagent
[00:35] <javi> apachelogger: maybe it would be smarter start working on jetpack support for the future https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/
[00:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: a volunteer!
[00:36] <nhandler> Riddell: What team will own the poll? ~kubuntu-members?
[00:36] <Riddell> nhandler: no idea.  that would make sense though
[00:36] <Riddell> vorian told me he wanted to stand
[00:36] <Riddell> and rgreening said at UDS he'd be interested
[00:37] <rgreening> me 2
[00:37] <rgreening> Sorry Im late
[00:37] <Riddell> a volunteer!
[00:37] <apachelogger> IMHO it would be good if some non-developer would volunteer as well
[00:37] <rgreening> I'm a BARBIE_GIRL, So I win the pagent
[00:37] <Riddell> I guess JontheEchidna isn't around to accept or decline the nomination
[00:37] <seele> as in non coder or non packager?
[00:37] <apachelogger> aye
[00:38] <seele> we have 2 non developers already (although i think Nightrose does some packaging) so it's not like we're at a loss
[00:38] <yuriy> volunteers! to the stake with them!
[00:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'll accept for him since I am his official representee
[00:38] <apachelogger> seele: well, ultimately it would be half non-devs and half devs :)
[00:38] <yuriy> but i'll nominate him (JontheEchidna) again anyway
[00:39] <seele> was ScottK not interested?
[00:39] <Riddell> isn't ScottK on enough committees already :)
[00:39] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:39] <apachelogger> hm, good point :P
[00:39]  * Nightrose thinks we have a good selection by now for a vote
[00:40] <rgreening> Am I on the guest list :P
[00:40] <Riddell> ok, I'll check with JontheEchidna and forward him, vorian, rgreening and apachelogger to community council
[00:40] <rgreening> schweet
[00:40]  * rgreening should send in my video resume :P
[00:40] <Riddell> they'll organise a wresting match or something similar to sort out the three winners
[00:40] <Nightrose> rgreening: no need - we got that already ;-)
[00:40] <seele> where is voting? doodle?
[00:41]  * apachelogger needs to do a fundraiser first
[00:41] <Riddell> seele: on launchpad I expect
[00:41] <rgreening> :>
[00:41] <nhandler> Riddell: Could you please check with the CC about what team will own the poll?
[00:41] <rgreening> I think it should be a Pub crawl
[00:41] <Riddell> nhandler: will do
[00:42] <Riddell> Tutorials Day
[00:42] <Riddell> there was general approval at UDS for another Tutorials Day
[00:42] <Riddell> who has something interested to teach the world?
[00:42] <apachelogger> RUBY! :P
[00:42] <Riddell> ooh, a volunteer :)
[00:42] <apachelogger> yus! :D
[00:43] <Nightrose> apachelogger: how about "easy the packaging pain with ruby" or something similar?
[00:43] <neversfelde> volunteers all around here :)
[00:43] <Nightrose> *easing
[00:43] <apachelogger> rapid package deployment with ruby
[00:43] <nhandler> o/
[00:43] <Riddell> Nightrose: think any amarok dudes would be interested in telling us how amarok plasmoids are made?
[00:43]  * apachelogger is not competely sober and probably will volunteer for anything :P
[00:43] <nhandler> For those of you who haven't noticed, we are holding weekly packaging training sessions
[00:43] <yuriy> packaging: the blood runs redder if you start with ruby
[00:44] <nhandler> If someone would be interested in leading a session this Thursday (or any Thursday) it would be greatly appreciated
[00:44] <Nightrose> Riddell: lfranchi is too busy but i might be able to convince our newest plasmoid guy to have a go at this (takahani)
[00:45] <Riddell> writing a python plasmoid would interest me
[00:45] <neversfelde> would be good to have a general session in how to get in touch with kubuntu development?
[00:45] <Riddell> yes it would
[00:45]  * Riddell wonders if neversfelde is volunteeting :)
[00:45] <apachelogger> neversfelde would be a perfect minion for that
[00:45] <neversfelde> I would like to listen and get in touch with development, so I am probably not a good choice :)
[00:46] <apachelogger> darn it
[00:46] <Riddell> some ideas there anyway, I'll collate them into a wiki page and poke people into committing and find a suitable date
[00:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: mail the list
[00:46] <Riddell> oh aye, e-mail, I always forget about that
[00:46] <apachelogger> I would expect JontheEchidna to do a general devleopment session
[00:46] <rgreening> Riddell: I'd do something, as long as it's after  finish usb-creator (god knows I'll catch hell if it doesnt get done)
[00:46] <apachelogger> since he is master of the minions nowadays
[00:47] <Riddell> it's fun being one of JontheEchidna's minions, he gets all the blame for my bugs
[00:47] <rgreening> bwahahahahah
[00:47] <Quintasan> lol
[00:47] <Riddell> who added "Karmic defaults" to the agenda?
[00:47] <rgreening> Tonio_: ?
[00:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna maybe
[00:48] <apachelogger> he got a complaint from upstream
[00:48] <apachelogger> quoting...
[00:48] <Riddell> it was JontheEchidna indeed
[00:48] <neversfelde> all ninjas should be available for a qa session and the minions could probably speak about their experiences with starting to be a kubuntu dev
[00:48] <rgreening> complaint?
[00:48] <apachelogger> The default screen edge timeout should be reverted to the upstream defaults (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-default-settings/1:9.10.6)
[00:48] <apachelogger> The timeout was there for a reason, (to prevent accidental triggering) and upstream thinks its a bad idea:
[00:48] <apachelogger> [Mon Jun 15 2009] [15:34:16] <mgraesslin> JontheEchidna: I don't think that's a good idea
[00:48] <apachelogger> [Mon Jun 15 2009] [15:34:23] <mgraesslin> "set electrib borders timeout to 0"
[00:48] <apachelogger> [Mon Jun 15 2009] [15:34:52] <JontheEchidna> agreed
[00:48] <Quintasan> +1 neversfelde
[00:48] <apachelogger> We should heed upstream's wishes and revert this change.
[00:49] <Riddell> tonio isn't here to defend himself but I've not heard any support for his change
[00:49] <apachelogger> revert it is
[00:49] <neversfelde> I have to leave, gn8 everyone
[00:49] <rgreening> nn neversfelde
[00:49] <Quintasan> night  neversfelde
[00:49] <lex79> nn neversfelde
[00:49] <rgreening> The fonts got smaller in Karmic :)
[00:49] <rgreening> yay
[00:49] <apachelogger> + mgreasslin is pretty awesome with kwin so I will trust his judgement of this stuff
[00:50] <Mamarok> gn8 neversfelde
[00:50] <Riddell> any other business?
[00:50] <apachelogger> yes
[00:50] <apachelogger> kdeaccessibility is all triaged
[00:50] <apachelogger> but judging from bug reports in incredibly bad shape
[00:50] <Riddell> it lacks much of an upstream alas
[00:51] <apachelogger> it would be highly appreciated if someone could check every app there and report bugs or even fix them
[00:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: true that
[00:51] <apachelogger> promo is needed for accessibility as well :D
[00:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna also got the following: Standalone GTK theme KCM almost ready to go: https://code.launchpad.net/kcm-gtk (Just a few touchups req'd) It might be nice to integrate color scheme config and push this upstream for 4.4 (since it doesn't seem too distro-specific), but it'll probably cause issues with gtk-qt-engine installations at the present so that'd have to be resolved first
[00:51] <Riddell> one day, any year now, the dbus accessiblity stuff we've been promised for yonk will get done, then people can actually do accessibility with qt
[00:52] <apachelogger> :D
[00:52] <Riddell> top stuff JontheEchidna
[00:52] <rgreening> Riddell: do we have (or should we create) a low-hangin-fruit list of things for junior members to work on? People keep mentioning "it would be nice to ..." and invariably these never get done...
[00:52] <Riddell> rgreening: yes although such lists usually end up unmaintained
[00:53] <apachelogger> well
[00:53] <yuriy> a list being a tag in LP
[00:53] <rgreening> Maybe ryanakca or someone coul dmaintain :)
[00:53] <apachelogger> IMHO those shoudl be filed as bugs and be offered mentoring for
[00:53]  * rgreening voluntells ryanakca
[00:53] <seele> is kubuntu participating in the 100 usability papercuts thing?
[00:53] <apachelogger> IMHO that is the primary usecase of mentoring offers on launchpad bugs
[00:53] <yuriy> apachelogger: hmm mentoring, even better!
[00:53] <seele> it's getting a lot of press, apparently it was hot discussion on UTEST today
[00:53] <yuriy> seele: that's kind of how this has been coming up
[00:54] <Quintasan> oh mentoring, that's how I found #kubuntu-devel :D
[00:54] <apachelogger> I pulled quite some good contributions out of mentoring offers in the past, even though it was not advertised at all
[00:54] <yuriy> seele: 100 papercuts is a canonical project and they are not looking at KDE, but can we do something similar and what would we get out of it?
[00:55] <yuriy> nixternal: something for your list then, use the offer mentoring feature more!
[00:55] <apachelogger> and promote it!
[00:55] <seele> yuriy: i thought it was an ubuntu thing
[00:55] <apachelogger> yuriy: KDE is in main, so it is of general interest to canonical as well :P
[00:55] <seele> yuriy: 100 papercuts is too many for us to handle and would probably be more appropriate as a kde thing since it would require development
[00:56] <seele> my only concern is that they take what is seemingly a small usability issue and bandaid it with a stop gap solution without fully investigating and solving the problem
[00:56] <apachelogger> I think we should move papercuts discussion to the mailing list
[00:56] <seele> just because an effect is small doesnt necessarily mean the fix is small
[00:56] <yuriy> apachelogger: I asked rickspencer3 about this when the project was discussed at UDS. at least the first round of the project will only be looking at Ubuntu GNOME
[00:57] <yuriy> at least insofar as what the canonical usability team will be doing
[00:57]  * apachelogger notes that this would barely get sponsoring from a kubuntu developer, since we are workign pretty closely with KDE
[00:57] <rickspencer3> do you guys think t should include Kubuntu?
[00:57] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: most likely, it certainly shouldn't exclude it
[00:58] <rickspencer3> I'll be happy to discuss with the design team
[00:58] <apachelogger> Kubuntu, being next to Ubuntu adderessing the other big market (namely those people who want KDE) should deserve at least some attention
[00:58] <rickspencer3> I just need to know *exactly* how you would envision it working, if possible
[00:58] <apachelogger> though we know that KDE is near perfection and thus barely will need fixes anyway ;-)
[00:58] <rickspencer3> you make a good point
[00:58] <rickspencer3> ;)
[00:58] <Mamarok> hear hear
[00:59] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: I would discuss this at the kubuntu-devel list so we can outline targets etc.
[00:59] <apachelogger> will poke you once we have reached some sensible vision though :)
[00:59] <Nightrose> rickspencer3: can you tell us what our options are?
[00:59] <rickspencer3> do you envision a separate set of bugs, or some of the paper cuts are Kubuntu bugs?
[01:00]  * apachelogger would go with the latter really
[01:00] <rickspencer3> Nightrose: honestly, when it cam up at UDS, I was fried to a crispy brown
[01:00] <apachelogger> feels more natural for the user anyway
[01:00] <Nightrose> rickspencer3: *lol* sorry to hear that
[01:00] <seele> rickspencer3: how does it work currently with ubuntu? is there a list of 100 bugs that the design team is working on addressing?
[01:00] <rickspencer3> so I couldn't really process it then (last session of UDS = very tired track lead) ;)
[01:00] <Nightrose> alright
[01:00] <rickspencer3> seele: they are in phase 1 right now
[01:00] <rickspencer3> 1. have users nominate bugs
[01:00] <seele> rickspencer3: we could come up with n number of bugs and have them count towards the 100, that could be a way of including kubuntu
[01:00] <seele> instead of having us run our own tally
[01:01] <nixternal> bah, sorry was at dinner
[01:01] <rickspencer3> 2. close bugs that are non-trivial to fix, there is no clear fix, etc...
[01:01] <Nightrose> rickspencer3: anyway I'd also rather se a seperate list - makes it easier to find kde people to help with the bugs
[01:01] <rickspencer3> 3. assign bugs to developers
[01:01] <Nightrose> *see
[01:01] <seele> hmm.. isnt there a problem with users nominating bugs?
[01:01] <rickspencer3> 4. developers can close if they are non-trivial to fix
[01:01] <seele> users aren't the best judge on whether something is a usability bug or not
[01:01] <seele> or is this bugs of any type?
[01:01] <rickspencer3> seele: well, nominating the bug is just like asking a designer to look at it
[01:02] <rickspencer3> they have a rather clear definition of a paper cut
[01:02] <apachelogger> is that public somewhere?
[01:02] <Nightrose> jono's blog iirc
[01:02] <seele> there should be a better way of getting info out to the community than jono's blog :P
[01:02] <apachelogger> how about this: kubuntu maintains its own list and takes care of 1. an d.2
[01:02] <nixternal> my thoughts was just to utilize a tag, ie. kubuntu-100, kubuntu-low-hanging-fruit or such, and then we can go through the list daily selecting the ones that are valid and removing the ones that aren't
[01:02] <apachelogger> then they get moved to the ubuntu paper cuts list
[01:03] <rickspencer3> it's not Jono's blog, actually, it's David Seigel (sic?)
[01:03] <Nightrose> ah ok
[01:03] <seele> personally i would prefer we integrate with the ubuntu list and get a certain percentage of bugs
[01:03] <rickspencer3> I would ask that you review the way they are doing it, and simply suggest how to get hooked in, and I will help with that
[01:03] <seele> i dont know if the separation is necessarily good for the community
[01:03] <seele> we should be working more with ubuntu rather than maintaining this separation
[01:03] <apachelogger> aye
[01:03] <Nightrose> seele: having a percentage means people moaning that it is too little or too much
[01:03] <Nightrose> i fear
[01:03] <rickspencer3> seele: I think integration is fine ... I wouldn't necessarily limit the % or go for a certain %, just whatever comes naturally
[01:04] <apachelogger> seele: but if we maintain our own list and only after 1. and 2. pass it along to the ubuntu papercuts we can also take away some of the design teams work
[01:04] <nixternal> rickspencer3: when I asked about integration I was told that the team currently handling 100 paper cuts was to small to handle ours as well
[01:04] <seele> if only 3 or 4 bubble up out of all the ubuntu users, that's not necessarily good for us :P
[01:04] <rickspencer3> nixternal: I can change that perception
[01:04] <nixternal> and was told to start up a similar project if needed
[01:04] <rickspencer3> I'm sure we can just talk about it
[01:04] <nixternal> rickspencer3: :) get um!
[01:04] <seele> would aurelian be available to work on some of the bugs?
[01:04] <yuriy> seele: i see that as 3 or 4 more bugs fixed than otherwise
[01:05] <rickspencer3> hmm
[01:05] <apachelogger> you know, I love rickspencer3
[01:05] <seele> yuriy: but in perspective, the bugs will be relatively small. 3-4 out of 100 is not that many
[01:05] <rickspencer3> perhaps, but I think you guys would be the developers working on this, and I think seele would probably have to triage the bugs the way david siegel is doing for ubuntu
[01:05] <seele> and not really great participation from kubuntu. i was hoping for a reserved number, like we get 10 bugs out of the 100 poll
[01:05] <rickspencer3> I say we go for it
[01:06] <seele> rickspencer3: is there a project plan somewhere? like a date we need to select bugs by?
[01:06] <apachelogger> IMHO we really need to discuss this in depth :P
[01:06] <rickspencer3> seele: I would support a soft target like that, but wouldn't consider it a limit, or a failure if only 9 come out of it
[01:06] <nixternal> I can run it if need be to take some of the stress off of others
[01:06] <nixternal> I am just coding now, not so much packaging of late as the ninjas have that covered
[01:06] <seele> rickspencer3: sure, but a target is better than saying "whatever bubbles up out of the ubuntu noise"
[01:06] <rickspencer3> well, I think you guys will have to drive your community participation
[01:07] <rickspencer3> here is what I would ask:
[01:07] <seele> if you look at brainstorm, for a long time kubuntu ideas were a tiny percentage until we started pushing it
[01:07] <rickspencer3> 1. see if you find the documented process
[01:07] <nixternal> rickspencer3: ditto, and I am working on a *plan* for that, guide us differently than the past
[01:07] <rickspencer3> 2. suggest a way to integrate with it
[01:07] <rickspencer3> 3. tell me what you want to do and I'll work with you and the design team to make it happen
[01:07] <rickspencer3> make sense?
[01:07] <nixternal> works for me
[01:07] <Nightrose> jep
[01:07] <seele> i dont understand 1.
[01:07] <apachelogger> +1
[01:07] <rgreening> u rock rickspencer3 :)
[01:08] <rickspencer3> seele: david wrote down somewhere what their process is
[01:08] <nixternal> right, I know where it is and already planned on building on top of it if we went forward on this
[01:08] <rickspencer3> I don't have this at my finger tips, but unfortunately I have someone waiting for call form me right now
[01:08] <rickspencer3> rgreening: :)
[01:08] <rickspencer3> thanks for the kudos :)
[01:08] <nixternal> I have talked to both David and Jorge concerning this as well
[01:08] <seele> rickspencer3: well if it is on the canonical wiki where most UX/DX  stuff is we wont ever find it
[01:09] <rgreening> np
[01:09] <seele> or do you mean the forum post?
[01:09] <rickspencer3> if they pushed back, I would just put something together and let me work with them on it
[01:09] <nixternal> seele: it is 75/25, the 25 that is on canonical's wiki I understand well enough to document a process for us
[01:09] <nixternal> plus I can get feedback from Jorge and David as needed
[01:09] <rickspencer3> I guess that they don't understand Kubuntu too well, and they are pretty worried about doing a good job, so we need to help them
[01:10] <rickspencer3> later guyses!
[01:10] <rickspencer3> I'll stand by
[01:10] <seele> hmm.. where is the official 100 papercuts announcement? the forums are complaining that ars is the only resource
[01:10] <nixternal> seele: jorge and david's blog really
[01:10] <yuriy> thanks rickspencer3
[01:10] <nixternal> there is also a gobby write up of it
[01:10] <seele> oh launchpad. goody
[01:10] <nixternal> and some docs on the wiki
[01:10] <apachelogger> mailing list!!!!
[01:10] <apachelogger> you are making me stay up longer than I want to :P
[01:10] <rickspencer3> there is a launchpad project, perhaps they linked to the process there?
[01:11] <Nightrose> ok folks I really need to get some sleep - good night :)
[01:11] <seele> Nightrose: 'night
[01:11] <Quintasan> night Nightrose
[01:11] <nixternal> g'nite Nightrose
[01:11] <apachelogger> can we move on?
[01:11] <Riddell> is there any other business?
[01:11] <seele> rickspencer3: hmm.. i only see guidelines for the participants, not administrative stuff
[01:11] <yuriy> seele: https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts
[01:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna got something else: On a more minor note I think that amarok's splash screen should be re-enabled since Amarok may not have launched by the time the launch feedback (bouncy icon/taskbar entry) may disappear before Amarok is done launching, making me think it crashed. :( Perhaps we should ask upstream's position?
[01:12] <apachelogger> I think that this makes perfectly sense, amarok needs a lot of time to start on both my desktops and my laptop
[01:12] <apachelogger> having no visual feedback is kinda bad
[01:12] <Mamarok> hm, I am absolutely for that too
[01:12]  * Quintasan notes Amarok is very slow here
[01:12] <seele> yuriy: right, i see that. that's not the info i need
[01:12] <apachelogger> especially if $user got a slower machine than mine
[01:12] <apachelogger> which is very likely :D
[01:13] <Riddell> can't say I'm a fan of splash screens
[01:13] <nixternal> ditto
[01:13] <Quintasan> +1 on this
[01:13] <apachelogger> true, but in this case it is almost necessary
[01:13] <nixternal> I will always be a fan of the bouncy icon!!! :)
[01:13] <apachelogger> Amarok 2 is quite a drag
[01:13] <apachelogger> nixternal: on some occasions that might timeout before amarok is actually showing anything
[01:13] <nixternal> heh, send a call to keep the icon bouncing :)
[01:13] <apachelogger> as JontheEchidna suggested
[01:14] <apachelogger> so he might have experienced it as well
[01:14] <Riddell> I think we should get a new council then take a vote :)
[01:15] <nixternal> when are we going to get a new council?
[01:15] <apachelogger> lol :lol, you are just deferring :P
[01:15] <seele> after we vote i guess
[01:15] <Mamarok> hm, the SVN build starts very fast on my laptop though
[01:15] <nixternal> well vote you turkeys :)
[01:15] <seele> how long will the poll be up on launchpad, one week?
[01:15]  * nixternal can't vote - no longer on the KC
[01:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I recommend you move the amarok stuff to the mailing list
[01:16] <javi> think about it this way, are you going then to solve this adding a splash to every app that takes a while to load? ktorrent takes it's time here too ...
[01:16] <rickspencer3> http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/15/calling-all-paper-cutters/
[01:16] <apachelogger> all said from JontheEchidna's and my side... so if there is nothing else
[01:17] <Mamarok> javi: Amarok has a splash screen by default
[01:17] <Mamarok> and a nice one too :)
[01:18] <nixternal> Riddell: Feedback - I should have a www mockup done tonight followed up by a plasmoid
[01:18] <apachelogger> that is debatable :P
[01:18] <Riddell> nixternal: lovely.  did you fix the kdebase-runtime packaging issue?
[01:18] <nixternal> no, I can do that though
[01:18] <nixternal> I will do that now
[01:18] <apachelogger> meeting done?
[01:19] <Riddell> I think so, I need to sleep
[01:19] <Riddell> I'll write up minutes in the morning if nobody else does first
[01:19] <Riddell> guid nicht all
[01:19] <nixternal> g'nite
[01:19]  * apachelogger is wondering what lang that is :P
[01:19] <javi> Mamarok: agree to that, but i like all my apps behabing the same way, what I mean is that the bouncy cursor shoudn't ... bouncin :D if amarok isn't loaded
[01:19] <Mamarok> Riddell: that was almost like ym mother tongue...
[01:19] <Mamarok> guet nacht alli
[01:19]  * apachelogger hopes he doesn't get dragged out of bed for shopping again :S
[01:20] <javi> *shouldn't stop bouncing
[01:20] <Mamarok> my*
[01:21] <Quintasan> argh I forgot
[01:21] <Quintasan> >_<
[01:22] <Mamarok> Quintasan: soemthing important?
[01:22] <Quintasan> Mamarok: not really, just something with Phonon dev libs
[01:23] <seele> rickspencer3: thanks
[01:23] <Quintasan> or me being not informed
[01:23] <javi> buenas noches ;-)
[01:23] <seele> rickspencer3: maybe we should set up a meeting with relevant people to talk about this?
[01:23] <Mamarok> Quintasan: mailing list then :)
[01:24] <Mamarok> ok, gn8 everyone, I need sleep
[01:24] <seele> Mamarok: 'night!
[01:24] <Quintasan> g'night Mamarok
[01:26] <rickspencer3> seele: I am concerned about adding to the design team's stress
[01:27] <rickspencer3> I would strongly recommend that I approach them with a well thought out proposal from the Kubuntu side
[01:27] <rickspencer3> that make it look easy for them
[01:27] <rickspencer3> make sense?
[01:27] <seele> kindof hard to come up with a proposal without getting questions answered, but i'll see what i can do
[01:30] <rickspencer3> seele: I'll be glad to help with the proposal
[01:30] <rickspencer3> and I can probably bring the right people in if we hit road blocks
[01:30] <rickspencer3> (tomorrow ;) )
[01:31] <seele> rickspencer3: ok.. i'll talk to you tomorrow then :)
[01:32] <seele> everyone else: did we decide to move the papercuts discussion to mailing list or can we talk about it here for a bit?
[01:33] <nixternal> we can talk about it here...I can help you out there as well if needed
[01:33] <seele> i dont think we need everyone's input just to come up with ideas for a plan of action
[01:33] <seele> nixternal: are you familiar with what they are trying to do? the details are a little wishy washy
[01:33] <nixternal> I say we utilize a *tag* named 'kubuntu-100' or something instead of creating an entire project just for it
[01:33] <nixternal> seele: yes
[01:33] <nixternal> I have been in talks with David and Jorge about starting it up for us
[01:33] <seele> i can understand some of their guidelines for voting on a bug or else they would get all sorts of junk, but it is a little restricting
[01:34] <nixternal> I decided to hold back until you were around so we could discuss it further, as it would really be you confirming most of them
[01:34] <seele> like i said, i dont know if starting up a separate parallel project is in our best interest
[01:34] <seele> imo would rather participate in the official project and contribute to the 100 papercuts
[01:34] <Tonio_> hey seele :)
[01:34] <Tonio_> and nixternal
[01:34] <seele> Tonio_: yo! you missed the meeting ;)
[01:34] <nixternal> right, and honestly, if you go through the current bugs, I could not find any little annoyances that would qualify for their project
[01:34] <nixternal> hiya Tonio_!
[01:34] <Tonio_> seele: I know, I had an interview for some job :)
[01:34] <seele> nixternal: we could look at kde bugs or we can do a UI review and come up with our own bugs
[01:35] <Tonio_> it was late cause the company isn't in france
[01:35] <seele> nixternal: i think the issue is how to select bugs, they are using a voting system on existing bugs
[01:35] <Tonio_> seele: sorry if I missed something important...
[01:35] <seele> er, doing submissions too
[01:35] <nixternal> seele: we could do that, but another thing behind this 100 papercuts project is to get people contributing to easy code fixes
[01:35] <Tonio_> but there are priorities at some points :)
[01:35] <seele> nixternal: eh, i see it more as a UX initiative than a coder initiative, but i'm biased
[01:36] <nixternal> right
[01:36] <yuriy> seele: from what I understand they are also doing some of their own testing to come up with these bugs
[01:37] <nixternal> the one thing I do want to do though is a "Kubuntu Low Hanging Fruit" setup and we start utilizing "Offer mentoring" so we can start getting more contributors
[01:37] <seele> yuriy: yes, but they also just have a review list of minor annoyances they have been collecting
[01:37] <seele> i think we could do our own independent UI review and review KDE bugs to come up with a list
[01:39] <nixternal> hey, I can review controls automation HMIs :p
[01:44] <rickspencer3> seele: it is a Ux initiative
[01:44] <rickspencer3> except, I reserved some developer time for these
[01:45] <rickspencer3> so like, the expectation is that maybe one or two fewer features will be implemented, but lots of paper cuts will be fixed
[01:45] <rickspencer3> make sense?
[01:45]  * nixternal thinks they should have been called blisters as they are far more annoying...I have 2, 1 on each thumb, for 130 miles of bike riding this weekend and they are annoying!
[01:45] <nixternal> ;p
[01:45] <rickspencer3> hehe
[01:46] <rickspencer3> also, the developer feedback is meant to be lightweight ...
[01:46] <rickspencer3> if a developer looks at it and thinks it will involved to fix, they just set it to invalid and say why (making sure to point out that it is invalid for the paper cuts project, not all projects)
[01:48] <rickspencer3> all, gotta go and have a life, but ...
[01:48] <rickspencer3> I wanted to mention that yesterday I was playing Mario Kart onlne, and one of my oppents was nicknamed sebas
[01:49] <rickspencer3> so now I think sebas has a secret life as a Mario Kart racer
[01:49] <rickspencer3> :)
[01:53] <nhandler> I brought this topic up earlier, but would any Kubuntu Ninja/Developer (or anyone else) be interested in leading a Packaging Training session (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training) at 18:00 UTC on Thursday?
[01:57] <JontheEchidna> aloha
[01:57] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: \o
[01:58] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: you got nominated to KC :3
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> neat
[01:58]  * JontheEchidna reads backlog
[01:58] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: See my last message. Any interest?
[01:59] <Quintasan> good luck, I got lost somewhere in middle
[01:59] <Quintasan> >_<
[02:06] <Quintasan> from #kubuntu
 quassel irc
 that's a weird one
[02:06] <Quintasan> :D
[02:08] <ryanakca> Riddell: Is there anything you can do to prod the Sysadmins? We've been waiting for them to finish "reviewing" our wiki theme for three months as of today, I filed the RT on March 16th, this is getting ridiculous.
[02:08] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: sure, I'd do a session
[02:11] <Quintasan> oh, well I'm outta here, night everyone
[02:12] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Would you be able to do one this Thursday (I know it is short notice, but we are desperate)
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> yes
[02:13] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: You rock! Could you update the wiki page?
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> just did ;-)
[02:17]  * Quintasan hopes for learning something new
[02:24] <lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks for sponsoring my membership :P
[02:31] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[02:33] <nixternal> Riddell: kubuntu-runtime fixed...I made a booboo and did a bzr up and not a pull, so I didn't get you 0ubuntu3 changes and already did a dput on 0ubuntu3, so I bumped your changes in bzr to 0ubuntu4 :)
[02:41] <nixternal> hrmm, Riddell never mind that, kdebase-runtime rejected as 0ubuntu3 was already there...oh well, the fix is in bzr it can be sorted out for the next KDE release
[02:42] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: the old qt-creator package needs deleting
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> (moved to qtcreator)
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> source only
[03:22] <ScottK> Nice: http://jawnsy.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/experiences-with-debian-and-kubuntu/
[03:29]  * nhandler notes that jawnsy is another Perl dev ;)
[03:29] <vorian> evening
[03:30] <vorian> did I miss anything good at the meeting?
[03:30] <nhandler> vorian: You were nominated for the council
[03:32] <vorian> i noticed that part
[03:32] <vorian> did we decide on Arora tonight?
[03:32] <nhandler> vorian: I'm not sure. I was split between two meetings and haven't had a chance to read through the logs yet
[03:33] <vorian> noted
[03:34] <ScottK> I think we decided we'll decide at beta to see if Arora is up to ti.
[03:34] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Quick question, any prerequisites for your packaging training session that we should inform users about?
[03:34] <ScottK> ti/it
[03:34] <yuriy> interestingly his last big gripe is the one thing I think linux handles sooo much better than windows (especially right now because I've been trying to get a windows install to run in a VM)
[03:34] <ScottK> nhandler: Be able to recognize a clue when it's shown to you?
[03:36] <yuriy> ScottK: this kind of clue? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/doc/writing-clue-files :P
[03:36] <ScottK> Heh.
[03:36]  * yuriy hopes we aren't giving out clues in XML
[03:49] <ScottK> Well it's not like that'd be overly useful.
[03:52]  * vorian is lost
[03:54] <nhandler> vorian: JontheEchidna volunteered to lead a packaging training session on Thursday. I then asked him about prerequisites.
[03:54] <vorian> ah, fantastico!
[03:54] <vorian> is it this thursday?
[03:55] <nhandler> vorian: Yes at 18:00 UTC
[03:55] <vorian> and is this kubuntu days, or classroom stuff?
[03:55] <nhandler> vorian: It is the weekly packaging training session thing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
[03:56] <vorian> ah, excellent
[03:57] <vorian> ooo, nhandler is doing a session on pbuilder
[03:58] <nhandler> vorian: I would have done the one on packaging perl modules, but I decided to try and get the Debian pkg-perl team involved
[04:03] <vorian> wee
[04:03] <vorian> i'm tired
[04:04]  * ScottK hands vorian a double espresso.
[04:04]  * vorian is NOT TIRED ANYMOAR!!!
[04:05]  * ScottK hands vorian another one since clearly he needs to build up his tolerance.
[04:05] <vorian> ha
[04:05] <vorian> wow the topic is short
[04:53] <shtylman_> Riddell: do we still want that feedback widget we talked about at UDS?
[05:44] <DaskreeCH> shtylman: I want it
[09:01] <freinhard> hi!
[09:02] <freinhard> Riddell: do you intend to port install-package to (k)packagekit?
[09:42] <freinhard> Riddell: attached a small patch to catch SystemError in case it can't lock apt. bug #335897
[10:06] <Mamarok> ok folks, we have a serious problem here: seems that 4.2.90 was moved to the backports PPA where I point people to for Amarok 2.1 *big fail*
[10:07] <Mamarok> could you please, please, please move Amarok to the regular backports? This is not doing us any good :(
[10:32] <freinhard> Riddell: did some changes to install-packages to catch some errors. what's the easiest workflow for that? i guess you won't let me push these directly into the lp-repo, so i could send you the patches (odd) or branch it, put the changes there and you merge them back into trunk?
[10:33] <Riddell> freinhard: branch and merge is the best way
[10:33] <Riddell> freinhard: although we hope to be able to use kpacakgekit to replace its function before long
[10:35] <freinhard> Riddell: ok, next question, pulled with "bzr branch lp:install-package". how do i push that into a repo that belongs to me?
[10:35] <Riddell> Mamarok: let me try that backport now
[10:36] <Riddell> freinhard: you need to have an ssh key in launchpad, then bzr push lp:~<user>/<project>/<branchname>  should do it
[10:37] <freinhard> Riddell: but i first need to register a new branch? https://code.launchpad.net/install-package/+addbranch
[10:37] <Riddell> freinhard: should be able just to push, no registration needed
[10:38] <jussi01> Riddell: did you get everything sorted with nalioth?
[10:43] <Riddell> jussi01: I think so
[10:44] <jussi01> Riddell: excellent. we have a new resolution channel for the council #ubuntu-irc-council - so you can drop in there if you need something else. :)
[10:45] <Riddell> oh it's qtscript stuff which  makes amarok a  pain to  backport
[10:56] <Riddell> freinhard: your branch has your changes but it doesn't remove the old code
[10:56] <Riddell> commit() now has two apt_pkg.PkgSystemLock and  two self._cache.commit
[10:57] <freinhard> Riddell: already fixed but not pushed
[10:57] <Riddell> ok I'm just being premature
[11:22] <freinhard> Riddell: you can have a look at it now.
[11:27] <Riddell> freinhard: great, merged
[11:28] <Riddell> freinhard: any more changes expected or shall I upload?
[11:28] <freinhard> Riddell: nope, fixed all bugs filed against install-package, except for update-notifier not handling errors in install-package
[11:31] <freinhard> Riddell: so can i close all related bugs?
[11:32] <Riddell> freinhard: nope
[11:32] <Riddell> that'll close magically when I upload
[11:32] <freinhard> great
[11:32] <Riddell> well bug 335897 will, what's the other one?
[11:32] <freinhard> see commit messages
[11:35] <Riddell> freinhard: groovy, uploaded
[11:39] <freinhard> Riddell: hmm, looks like the launchpad magic just worked for 335897
[11:43] <Riddell> I always knew it would
[11:43] <Riddell> freinhard: oh you mean and  none of the others?
[11:44] <freinhard> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/install-package
[11:45] <freinhard> my bad, impatient.
[11:45] <Riddell> phew
[11:49] <Riddell> yuriy: userconfig in kubuntu-ppa/experimental now
[11:49] <Riddell> it suggests it should work as non-root but it doesn't?
[11:56] <Mamarok> Riddell: thanks, would be really great
[12:16] <javi> any news about the ppa of kde4 oo.org ?
[12:17] <Riddell> it hasn't been packaged
[12:17] <Riddell> I don't even know if it's in a suitable state for packaging, shtylman?
[12:46] <freinhard> are there more python apps that need some bugfixing?
[12:59] <Riddell> freinhard: you could take a look if there's bugs for any of printer-applet, jockey-kde, software-properties-kde, update-notifier-kde
[13:00] <Riddell> development needed on system-config-printer-kde and userconfig
[13:03] <freinhard> btw: can't install kdeutils on jaunty with backports. needs kde-printer-applet 4.2.90-0ubuntu1~jaunty1~ppa1 which isn't available.
[13:04] <Riddell> did it get renamed to printer-applet?
[13:05] <freinhard> it looks like it, yes.
[13:06] <Riddell> well patches welcome :)
[13:06] <Riddell> it got fixed in karmic in 4:4.2.90-0ubuntu2
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: how involved/long does this have to be?
[13:14] <JontheEchidna> I could probably vary the length depending on how much I assume they know
[13:18] <freinhard> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/197654/
[13:20] <Riddell> freinhard: ooh
[13:22] <Riddell> freinhard: hang on, where are you getting this package?  the fix is already in ~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports
[13:23] <yuriy> Riddell: what happens as non-root? it should run standalone but buttons are disabled
[13:23] <freinhard> Riddell: experimental
[13:26] <Riddell> yuriy: it does, with a handy notice at the top saying it'll ask for a root password
[13:26] <yuriy> ah that's about right then, except the message needs changing
[13:28] <Riddell> yuriy: changing to "it won't work"?
[13:30] <Riddell> yuriy: have you looked at policykit at all?
[13:30] <yuriy> plan to. I thought Sime was still trying to get it working in python?
[13:46] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: It can be as long or as short as you want. However, please try and leave some time for Q&A. The logs are on the wiki if you want to get an idea for how long they were in the past. Also, are there any prerequisites for your session?
[13:49] <Riddell> yuriy: I just packaged the policykit bindings as part of python-kde4 yesterday in karmic
[13:49] <Riddell> so worth looking at now
[13:50] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: ok, I could probably do a 15 minute session if they knew their way around debian/control
[13:50] <NCommander> is it a known bug that w/ Kubuntu alpha 2 that we show an Ubuntu logo vs Ubuntu
[13:51] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: If the session is only 15 minutes, then I would briefly explain debian/control (but it is not required)
[13:51] <Riddell> NCommander: where?
[13:51] <NCommander> Riddell, on the livecd
[13:52] <Riddell> NCommander: where on the live CD?
[13:52] <NCommander> usplash, boot menu
[13:52] <NCommander> WTF
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: yeah, I suppose that'd be a good idea
[13:52] <Riddell> NCommander: boot menu has a Kubuntu logo last I looked (yesterday)
[13:52] <NCommander> wow, I'm an idiot
[13:52] <NCommander> I downloaded and burnt the wrong CD
[13:52] <NCommander> *fails*
[13:53] <jussi01> NCommander: hahaha
[13:55] <NCommander> does the alternate CD allow you do to a badblock scan?
[13:55] <NCommander> (its been awhile)
[13:57] <Riddell> you can verify the CD from the boot menu
[13:58] <rgreening> Riddell: any ideas on this... http://paste.ubuntu.com/197677/
[13:58] <rgreening> got that from a crash with python... the drkonqi is the question...
[13:59] <NCommander> Riddell, on my harddrive?
[13:59] <NCommander> Riddell, I was to do a destructive bad blocks scan
[14:00] <Riddell> oh don't know about the hard drive
[14:01] <Riddell> rgreening: umm, none at all I'm afraid
[14:02] <rgreening> seem like something is broken?
[14:02] <Riddell> well yes, don't know what though
[14:02] <ScottK> rgreening: According to p.u.c we don't ship that file.
[14:03] <rgreening> something is still built against it .. I guess...
[14:04] <rgreening> hmm... this looks funny... libkdeinit4_/drkonqi.so
[14:04] <rgreening> the '/'
[14:05] <rgreening> I wonder if there's a typo ... libkdeinit4_drkonqi.so maybe
[14:05] <gkiagia> rgreening: drkonqi is not a kdeinit executable, it should not attempt to load such a file...
[14:05] <rgreening> gkiagia: any ideas on how to fix?
[14:06] <gkiagia> something is wrong with that binary
[14:07] <gkiagia> try "file /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/drkonqi" and also with ldd
[14:09] <gkiagia> what does it say?
[14:09] <txwikinger_work> Is KDE 4.3 out in a stable form?
[14:09] <txwikinger_work> I mean for jaunty
[14:09] <jussi01> didnt someone mention the other day that drkonqui was missing a dep?
[14:10] <Riddell> txwikinger_work: beta 2 packages are in kubuntu-ppa backports
[14:11] <txwikinger_work> kubuntu-ppa backports... Have had that one yet :)
[14:11] <txwikinger_work> Are they stable?
[14:11] <txwikinger_work> Well.. more stable than my 4.2.2 ;)
[14:14] <Quintasan> hmm, anyone can tell me if it's possible to do boot a machine via PXE with desktop iso?
[14:17] <Riddell> txwikinger_work: works for me
[14:24] <freinhard> Riddell: bug #335897, can i set that one to set to invalid for python-apt, since raising an error isn't a bug?
[14:27] <txwikinger_work> Riddell: Looks better, but the upgrade lost my desktop configuration
[14:42] <yuriy> Riddell: excellent. probably something for next week though
[14:52] <Riddell> freinhard: yes please do
[14:58] <yuriy> Riddell: userconfig failed to build. missing quilt?
[15:00] <Quintasan> <3 karmic text installer, does GUI provides encrypted LVM option?
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> Could I get a revu for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kcm-gtk ?
[15:04] <Tonio_> hum are the ppas broken ?
[15:04] <Tonio_> I can't upload anything...
[15:05] <shtylman> Riddell: talking to calc about it and trying to get it packaged...it is in a suitable state for inital packaging
[15:06] <Riddell> yuriy: tsk.  fixed
[15:06] <Riddell> Tonio_: works here
[15:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: kk
[15:08]  * JontheEchidna back in a bit
[15:08] <Quintasan> Riddell: I have a problem with building Phonon app in karmic, it complains about missing Phonon/Global, in jaunty this file was provided by libphonon-dev but in karmic it links to libqt4-phonon-dev which doesn't contain those files, I should poke upstream or it's a problem with our packages?
[15:09] <Riddell> Quintasan: both.  qt doesn't build that Phonon/Global file
[15:09] <Riddell> there's a patch but I havn't found it yet
[15:09] <shtylman> Riddell: unless you know of anyone else I should ping about the packaging?
[15:10] <Riddell> Quintasan: you can use  phononnamespace.h instead, it's exactly the same header
[15:10] <Riddell> Quintasan: or you can track down the qt patch :)
[15:10] <Riddell> shtylman: no, ccheney's the man
[15:10] <shtylman> cool
[15:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ok
[15:16] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: revued
[15:22] <yuriy> Riddell: CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-2.6/Modules/FindKDE4.cmake:44 (MESSAGE): ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config
[15:23] <Riddell> wah
[15:23] <Riddell> maybe I should have run this through pbuilder
[15:23] <Quintasan> Riddell: thx, I will poke the upstream then search through the internetz for patch
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: upstream doesn't need poked, its entirely a problem on our end
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks
[15:28] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: oh k, I will search for the patch
[15:28] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I disagree, it was a problem on their end
[15:28] <Riddell> but they fixed it
[15:28] <dajomu> Hello Kubuntu-devs. Who is maintaining KpackageKit? There are too many unnecessary mouse-clicks. Why not put Software management, Software updates and settings in one view?
[15:28] <Riddell> I've just lost the patch since
[15:28] <Riddell> dajomu: we only package is, the upstream design it
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: for  phononnamespace? I thought we patched that in Qt
[15:29] <dajomu> Riddell - Ahh
[15:29] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: nope
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: there seems to be a patch in qt-copy
[15:30] <Riddell> dajomu: Tonio_ is the packager of it, he might know the best way to get involved with upstream if you want to
[15:30] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ah hah, maybe we should steal that
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah, there are also a few more patches we may want to pick up along with that
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> from 280 up I think
[15:31] <dajomu> Riddell - Great. Thanks a lot
[15:31] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/qt-copy/patches/0281-syncqt-create-phonon-global.diff?revision=967426&view=markup  that's the one
[15:32]  * Riddell adds it to Qt
[15:33] <Tonio_> dajomu: at work now, no time to respond, but please ping me toonight :)
[15:35] <Riddell> agateau: we want your 0283-do-not-deduce-scrollbar-extent-twice.diff patch in our Qt 4.5?
[15:36] <Quintasan> neversfelde: ping
[15:36] <agateau> Riddell: yes please
[15:37]  * Quintasan was hoping for some work with Qt but he has encountered a good idea on his thinking process
[15:37] <dajomu> Tonio_: Ok. Thanks
[15:40] <rgreening> agateau: ping
[15:40] <ScottK> Tonio_: How are the default netbook setting coming?
[15:41] <agateau> rgreening: pong (but @phone)
[15:41] <rgreening> agateau: got a question you may be able to answer... when you have a minte
[15:42] <DaskreeCH> rickspencer3: Are you going to GCDS ?
[15:42]  * yuriy wishes make -j was as magical as it seems
[15:42] <rickspencer3> DaskreeCH: yes
[15:42] <DaskreeCH> Sweet :)
[15:42] <rgreening> agateau: If I have a function I need to connect in Qt.. and it takes parameters... how do I get the parameters to it? i.e. QObject.connect(self.timer, SIGNAL(timeout()), self.timeout(parameter_i_need))
[15:43] <JontheEchidna> ^I've never been able to do that in python
[15:43] <agateau> rgreening: you need an intermediate function :/
[15:43] <agateau> or you can try lambda
[15:43] <DaskreeCH> rickspencer3: Wold you have some extra space in your suitcase for an "unknown" Stowaway ?
[15:44] <agateau> rgreening: connect(ob, signal, lambda x: self.myfunc(12))
[15:44] <seaLne> is their a criteria for whether packages in debian are imported into *ubuntu? (package thats been in debian for a while but isn't in ubuntu repos)
[15:44] <agateau> rgreening: not sure it works
[15:44] <Riddell> seaLne: anything that isn't blacklisted
[15:44] <rgreening> agateau: so lambda param=myvalue: self.timeout(param) ?
[15:44] <Riddell> seaLne: what's missing?
[15:44] <yuriy> agateau: ooh looks neat, what's that do exactly?
[15:45] <agateau> rgreening: no sorry
[15:45] <seaLne> dvswitch which i'm using for gcds
[15:45] <agateau> lambda: self.timeout(param)
[15:45] <rgreening> agateau: but where does param come from then?
[15:46] <rgreening> Im lost :)
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kcm-gtk <- Fixed the issues
[15:46] <yuriy> agateau: where myfunc is something instead of a no argument slot you'd normally use there? clever.
[15:46] <agateau> still @phone bbiab
[15:49] <agateau> rgreening: back
[15:50] <agateau> rgreening: the idea is that you create a parameter-less lambda
[15:50] <agateau> which calls the parametered function with the parameter you want
[15:50] <agateau> and pass this lambda as connect() slot
[15:50] <rgreening> agateau: does this work in pyqt
[15:50] <agateau> rgreening: I think it does
[15:51] <agateau> It did in my PyQt3 days
[15:51] <agateau> so your example would be:
[15:51] <seaLne> Riddell: ah dvswitch is in karmic not sure why it isn't in jaunty
[15:51] <agateau> QObject.connect(self.timer, SIGNAL(timeout()), lambda: self.timeout(parameter_i_need))
[15:52] <agateau> but if you want to avoid black-magic you can just do:
[15:52] <rgreening> agateau: and the parameter is filled in at time of connect, yes?
[15:52] <agateau> rgreening: yes, it's inside of the lambda
[15:52] <rgreening> ok
[15:52] <rgreening> and avoid back magic?
[15:53] <agateau> QObject.connect(self.timer, SIGNAL(timeout()), self.slotTimeout)
[15:53] <agateau> def slotTimeout():
[15:53] <agateau>   self.timeout(parameter_i_need)
[15:53] <agateau> less fancy
[15:53] <agateau> but this one is sure to work
[15:53] <rgreening> and wont work, cause how do I know the parameter as its a variable
[15:53] <agateau> err "slotTimeout(self):" of course
[15:53] <agateau> rgreening: oooh
[15:54] <agateau> I thought it was not a variable
[15:54] <rgreening> nope, it's, in this case a QString
[15:54] <agateau> and this variable is only known at connect() time?
[15:54] <rgreening> yep
[15:55] <agateau> then try the lambda approach
[15:56] <rgreening> and lambda will bind the variable at time of connect, correct
[15:57] <rgreening> agateau: basically I am attempting to port gobject.tomeout_add calls to pyqt for usb-creator...
[15:57] <rgreening> timeout_add that is...
[15:57] <NCommander> Kubuntu alternates failed to install :-/
[15:57] <agateau> rgreening: I see
[15:57]  * rgreening does not like gtk
[15:58] <rgreening> or glibib
[15:58] <NCommander> *failed to build
[15:58] <NCommander> and I can't launch the alternate installer
[15:58] <NCommander> ARGH
[15:58] <NCommander> so frustating
[15:58] <agateau> rgreening: but if i am not mistaken, the data param of timeout_add is still known when the callback is called, am I wrong?
[15:58] <agateau> oh... maybe it's a bit different in the case of Python
[15:59] <rgreening> agateau: they are parameters which are variables, yes...
[15:59] <agateau> rgreening: but they are not part of an object, or global, that's it?
[15:59] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: were those the only problems you saw?
[15:59] <rgreening> right
[16:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes, looked like a work of perfection otherwise
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> ^.^
[16:01] <shtylman> Riddell: the kde4 integration will come when we package OO 3.1.1 .. officially it is in about a month or so, but there might be an experimental package before then
[16:02] <Riddell> a month!  that's years away!
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: the stuff installs in a different location than the gtk-qt-engine one, so this could probably go into KDE for 4.4
[16:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ask on kde-core-devel if there's interest
[16:06] <shtylman> Riddell: yea...I know...I really want to just package it up into my PPA ... :/ but havn't had a response about the library dependencies yet...
[16:10] <Riddell> shtylman: presumably we want to send yuriy's icons upstream too?
[16:10] <shtylman> Riddell: indeed...we do want to do that as soon as possible
[16:11] <shtylman> so that we can change which icon package gets used for kde4 integration
[16:11] <Riddell> shtylman: fancy doing that since you're already in contact with them?
[16:11] <yuriy> i'm not sure if the icons are ok for upstream
[16:11] <shtylman> Riddell: yea...no problem...I will ask them ... I am sure it will be good for the inital release
[16:12] <yuriy> for one thing, it's still woefully incomplete. but also calc said something about sun requiring copyright assignment
[16:13] <Riddell> I guess upstream will be go-oo rather than openoffice
[16:13] <Riddell> and incomplete is better than not at all
[16:13] <shtylman> yuriy: yea...upstream is go-oo and they are not as mean as sun :)
[16:14] <yuriy> shtylman: you've been using the icon set? do you think it looks consistent enough right now to use?
[16:14] <shtylman> yuriy: I havn't really been 'using' it ....so much as it just appears when I test the widgets :) ... I think it looks much better than the current one
[16:18] <shtylman> yuriy: ok...I am talking to them about how to get the images in and I should be able to do that for the current image set you have
[16:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: kpackagekit in the archives
[16:20] <Riddell> yay
[16:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: right now I'll try to make the syncml akonadi resource to work
[16:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: so usefull in corp environment
[16:21] <Tonio_> and next is the netbook edition...
[16:23] <shtylman> Riddell yuriy: we will need to host the zip package (or actually tar ball should be fine because it gets unpacked during build...of the icon set...preferably called something like images_oxygen_<timestamp>.tar.gz
[16:23] <shtylman> they can host it on download.go-oo.org if we like
[16:25] <Riddell> shtylman: I can put it on people.ubuntu.com but download.go-oo.org might make more sense
[16:25] <shtylman> right
[16:26] <Riddell> whichever they prefer
[16:26] <yuriy> someone suggested using some icons from NeoOffice too because they look more oxygenish. i downloaded neooffice but haven't looked into it yet. think that's a good idea?
[16:26] <Riddell> interestingly OOo_3.1.0_src_core.tar.bz2 contains ooo_crystal_images-1.tar.gz and I'm certain there wouldn't be any copyright assignment for that
[16:27] <Riddell> yuriy: best to ask the oxygen arists if it's appropriate
[16:33] <seaLne> Riddell: hmm maybe the fact dvswitch won't even build on jaunty would be the reason :(
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> The new kpackagekit is much better
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> sexy animations while updating too
[16:57] <ScottK> How about some actual cryptography?
[16:57] <shtylman> yuriy: does your oxygen icon set contain all teh icons or just the ones you used from oxygen? like...when there was no icon from oxygen what did you use? .. the go-oo people are telling me that you just need to include the oxygen icons and the ones that arn't found in that zip will go to the fallback mechanism
[16:58] <Mamarok> Riddell: yay, qtscript stuff alreday in jaunty-backports :)
[16:58] <Mamarok> already* even
[16:58] <Riddell> Mamarok: amarok should be compiling now
[16:58] <Mamarok> thx a lot!
[16:59]  * Mamarok and the Rokers are happy
[16:59] <Mamarok> Riddell: extra drink at Akademy for you :)
[16:59] <Riddell> wow, I should mess up the PPAs more often
[17:00] <Mamarok> :)
[17:00] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2009-06-17  voila
[17:07] <freinhard> Riddell: the install-package fixes won't get it into jaunty?
[17:09] <Riddell> freinhard: no, we could do a stable release update but that's only for the most serious bugs and I'm not sure their qualifies
[17:13] <freinhard> Riddell: i'd consider a crash worth updating.
[17:14] <Riddell> freinhard: the chap to convince then is pitti, do you want to ask him  if it'll get accepted?
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> How do I edit patches with simple patchsys?
[17:15] <Riddell> emacs!
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> just edit the file raw?
[17:15] <Riddell> cdbs-edit-patch should work
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> oh, neat
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> I still <3 quilt
[17:20] <freinhard> Riddell: somehow strange that it's that hard to get a crash-fix into a "stable" release.
[17:21] <Riddell> freinhard: yes it's a lot of hassle, but in the past even minor update changes have caused notable breakage because of lack of testing
[17:22]  * Tonio_ hugs JontheEchidna for not liking quilt :)
[17:22]  * Tonio_ hugs cdbs-edit-patch for being nice
[17:22] <JontheEchidna> I do like quilt
[17:22] <JontheEchidna> simple patchsys ain't bad though
[17:22]  * Tonio_ stops huging JontheEchidna
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> :P
[17:23]  * shtylman compiling openoffice again...this time with oxygen icon support...hopefully...
[17:23] <Tonio_> I don't understand how people can find it normal to have to type in 4 commands to create a patch
[17:23] <Tonio_> another 4 commands to edit a patch etc...
[17:23] <Tonio_> but well, technically quilt works
[17:24] <Tonio_> shtylman: AHHHHHHHH ? oxygen theme ???
[17:24] <ScottK> Tonio_: quilt - "The Git of patching systems".
[17:24] <shtylman> Tonio_: indeed...I am now adding in the code to use yuriy's icons by default in kde4
[17:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: yep, absolutly true
[17:25] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: I'm preparing an update for kpackagekit to turn back on the update notifier (I've turned update-notifier-kde's off in bzr)
[17:25] <Tonio_> shtylman: did yuriy finish the theme ? that fast ?
[17:25] <shtylman> Tonio_: he got alot done and migrated...anything that doesn't have an icon will just fall back to crystal
[17:26] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: oki, atm I just wanted to check out if everything worked... please do
[17:26] <shtylman> yuriy: assuming that you remove anything that isn't an oxygen icon from the package as per the suggestion :)
[17:26] <JontheEchidna> unfortunately the "turn off" patch got mixed in with another patch
[17:26] <JontheEchidna> so I had to edit it
[17:26] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I switched kpackagekit to cdbs patchsys fyi
[17:27] <JontheEchidna> I noticed ;-)
[17:27] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: :)
[17:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm turning off the zero kwin border delay, people seem to want a delay
[17:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: do they ?
[17:30] <Riddell> Tonio_: seems so, see meeting last night
[17:30] <Tonio_> ok
[17:31] <Riddell> how do I even set the kwin border actions now?  the GUI seems to have disappeared
[17:32] <mgraesslin> Riddell: it's in desktop -> screen edges
[17:34] <Riddell> so it is, thanks
[17:37] <shtylman> inkscape won't open for me anymore... :(
[17:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just did the way osx did for the borders
[17:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: maybe a shorter one than the default then ?
[17:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: let's say half...
[17:42] <Riddell> 150ms isn't really a long time
[17:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: well with a touchpad it is, really
[17:43] <Riddell> no it's not, it's a fraction of a second!
[17:44] <Riddell> quite a small fraction too
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: cause the xorg screen is a pain to target
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: when you go in there, your cursor will move from one pix
[17:44] <Riddell> how does a touchpad make any difference?  a screen corner is easy to target
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's why I removed the delay
[17:44]  * apachelogger got himself an android phone \\o/
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: synaptic...
[17:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: the driver I mean :)
[17:44] <Riddell> seems easy to me
[17:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: could depend on the touchpad I think :)
[17:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: nevermind, remove it, not a big deal, if that's the only complaint about all the things I changed :)
[17:47] <Riddell> who has a tutorial inside them?  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay/Prep
[17:48] <Riddell> shtylman: inkscape encounters an internal error here
[17:48] <shtylman> Riddell: indeed for me as well :(
[17:48] <Riddell> kwwii: could you give an artwork tutorial?
[17:49] <Nightrose> Riddell: sven423 might be a good victim :D
[17:49] <Nightrose> about amarok scripting
[17:49] <Nightrose> leo and takahani are too busy for a plasmoid tutorial :(
[17:52] <shtylman> Riddell: quite upsetting as I need to edit an svg :(
[17:52] <Riddell> shtylman: dare I suggest karbon-kde4 ?
[17:52] <shtylman> Riddell: tried it...sucks.. :/
[17:52] <shtylman> Riddell: can't even figure out the size of the image... or change units to pixels...
[17:52] <ScottK> Sounds like it sucks less than inkscape right at the moment.
[17:52] <shtylman> maybe I am just retarded...
[17:53] <shtylman> actually...it doesn't even have pixels as a unit...that just...I can't deal with that :)
[17:56] <Riddell> freinhard: pitti didn't reply?
[17:57] <shtylman> anyone got any other svg editors they like?
[17:57]  * shtylman open for suggestions...
[17:59] <yuriy> shtylman: that'll need to be fixed then. the current thing is tango overwritten with crystal overwritten with oxygen, so there's a mix
[18:00] <Riddell> who's up for doing an introduction to karmic for tutorials day?
[18:00] <shtylman> yuriy: the go-oo guys suggested that you only put the oxygen specific icons that you were able to port in the package, and let the fallback mechanism handle the ones that didn't get ported
[18:00]  * Riddell eyes up rgreening 
[18:01] <freinhard> Riddell: he did, pointed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[18:01] <shtylman> basically...packages what you can and any that you don't find an appropriate fit for leave out...don't bring over the old crystal ones
[18:02] <kwwii> Riddell: sure, just not sure exactly what about ;)
[18:03] <Riddell> kwwii: I'm thinking you show us a snazzy oxygen icons and go through the steps to create that in inkscape
[18:03] <Riddell> kwwii: something simple enough we can all follow along at home
[18:04] <Riddell> freinhard: ok so it'll probably get accepted, do you know how to (and want to) make a debdiff?
[18:05] <rgreening> Riddell: what would that entail... I'm sort of knee deep in porting gobject code to qobject equivalents for usb-creator (and doing miserably)
[18:06] <Riddell> rgreening: telling people for up to an hour what's in the specs and other work for karmic, and how they can get involved
[18:06] <Riddell> rgreening: currently I have sunday 28th down as the day but that's a date I just picked, could be easily changed
[18:07] <rgreening> hmm... I can possibly do that... got anyone who can help me port some gobject code in the meantime :)
[18:10] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay/Prep  currrent stage of planning
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> KPackageKit's notifier works :)
[18:11] <Riddell> yay
[18:12]  * JontheEchidna prepares debdiff
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> update-notifier-kde is good to go in bzr
[18:13] <JontheEchidna> http://paste.ubuntu.com/197850/
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> ^If I could get a kind sponsor for kpackagekit from above and update-notifier-kde from bzr
[18:19] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: onto it
[18:20] <rgreening> anyone here good with gtk/gobject and qt?
[18:20]  * rgreening needz halp
[18:20] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: just one thing cause I didn't follow the discussion...
[18:21] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: what will update-notifier-kde do now ?
[18:21] <Tonio_> if it's not in charge for the updates ?
[18:21] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: doesn't that patch just show the settings for update notifying?  where are the settings themselves?
[18:22] <smarter> hey, is Air in the beta2?
[18:22] <Riddell>     """an applet to show a systray icon when apt has software updates to be installed, when Apport has crash reports, for reboot notification and for upgrade hook messages"""
[18:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: all but the first ^^
[18:22] <Riddell> smarter: doesn't seem to be
[18:23] <smarter> any idea if it's going to be in 4.3 at all? :)
[18:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe oki I missed the point in there :)
[18:23] <Riddell> smarter: rumours are they want it to remain fresh
[18:23] <smarter> okay, makes sense ;)
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: it also installs the kded .desktop file
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> which we weren't installing previously to stop the kpk updater from running
[18:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: aah, that's the important bit
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> yeah, a bit deceiving
[18:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: uploaded
[18:28] <Riddell> rgreening: I think I'm about to go out but e-mail us the details and I can have a look when I get a moment
[18:28] <rgreening> ok, I assume oyu mean the kubuntu-devel list
[18:28] <Riddell> that would do
[18:29] <rgreening> kk. maybe I might have a stroke of luck and figure it out.. or maybe just a regular stroke and croak...
[18:29] <rgreening> :P
[18:39] <yuriy> shtylman: ok I'll try to make that change in the next couple of days
[18:46] <shtylman> yuriy: cool
[19:12] <neversfelde> Quintasan: pong
[19:17] <shtylman> is plasmapkg not installed by default now?
[19:17] <shtylman> or is there an alternative we are supposed to use in 4.3?
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: it accidentally got removed from the packages, an update for karmic is on the way
[19:28] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: :)
[19:28] <txwikinger_work> Riddell: I still have the same plasma bu in the KDE beta
[19:28] <shtylman> got scared there for a bit...cause it breaks installing some plasmoids with get hot new stuff
[19:31] <txwikinger_work> even worse... I can't restart plasma anymore
[19:37] <shtylman> txwikinger_work: kquitapp plasma-desktop ?
[19:40]  * txwikinger_work wonders how to restart plasma in KDE 4.3 beta
[19:42] <Quintasan> neversfelde: still there?
[19:43] <neversfelde> Quintasan: yes
[19:45] <Quintasan> neversfelde: I think we should make a kubuntu-plasmoids PPA, since we both package em and I hate to discover that someone already did the job and I'm still wasting time to compile it
[19:45] <Quintasan> it could also be distributed to users
[19:45] <Quintasan> or maybe a new team?
[19:46] <neversfelde> a Bug in Launchpad should be enough to avoid double work?
[19:47] <Quintasan> neversfelde: do we really need to file a bug to package a new plasmoid?
[19:47] <neversfelde> yes, a new initial release should fix a [neeeds packaging] bug
[19:47] <Quintasan> neversfelde: I didn't saw [needs-packaging]plasma-widget-daisy, I've done it and seconds later I find it on REVU
[19:47] <shtylman> can I update twitter status from irc? ... ive heard it is doable..but never tried...
[19:47] <neversfelde> Quintasan: there was such a bug
[19:48] <neversfelde> a PPA is imo not good to avoid that two people are working at the same plasma widget, because you upload it after you have done the work
[19:49] <Quintasan> neversfelde: my point is that we won't get each plasma-widget to repos, maybe not we won't make it but I think it's not really needed
[19:51] <neversfelde> I think there are enough ppas, users are so confused about it that another one would not be a good solution. Backports of plasma-widgets should go to the backports ppa or the official ones
[20:00] <usr> Hi! Ubuntu can mount ISO images by default with Nautilu's contextual menu. It wold be possible to implement this feature in Dolphin by default for Kubuntu 9.10?
[20:00] <usr> isomount-qt can do this, include in the distro by default, please. http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=107105
[20:00] <usr> Thanks. :-)
[20:03] <jussi01> that doesnt look exactly sane to me.... but I could be wrong... or misinformed...
[20:05] <Quintasan> it asks for root password first of all, it need to use kdesudo, then it mounts the iso to cdrom0 and we don't want this (what happens when someone has already mounted a CD?)
[20:05] <Quintasan> s/need/needs
[20:06] <Quintasan> usr: use AcetoneISO for this
[20:06] <Quintasan> usr: http://getdeb.net
[20:06]  * Quintasan thinks AcetoneISO should be included in repos
[20:06] <jussi01> Quintasan: the second part of your observation was the first thing I saw
[20:07] <Quintasan> jussi01: I installed it 3 minutes ago :P
[20:07] <jussi01> Quintasan: whats this acetone like?
[20:07] <Quintasan> jussi01: it's like daemon tools
[20:08] <jussi01> Quintasan: no, I mean is it relatively sane?
[20:08] <Quintasan> jussi01: ah
[20:08] <Quintasan> I think yes
[20:08] <jussi01> have you examined the source at all?
[20:08] <Quintasan> source not
[20:08] <Quintasan> but I think I will do it
[20:09] <jussi01> Quintasan: that would be nice. Ive seen too many hackish ones, like the one mentioned above...
[20:12] <jussi01> Quintasan: be nice if that acetone added in an action in the context menu in dolphin...
[20:12] <Quintasan> first I will package it, then I will think of something :P
[20:13] <jussi01> :D
[20:15] <usr> Thank you. I know acetoneISO, but I think that this option must be included by default, like Mac OS's finder or GNOME's Nautilus.
[20:15] <usr> Thak you for all
[20:15] <jussi01> usr: yeah, the action, but not that script ;)
[20:16] <usr> O.K.
[20:20] <Quintasan> hmm how do I set dolphin OR nautilius in dependencies?
[20:21] <bddebian> Depends: dolphin | nautilus ?
[20:21] <Quintasan> can I do dolphin | nautilus | konqueror?
[20:21] <bddebian> afaik yes
[20:21] <bddebian> Or sensible-browser or somesuch
[20:29] <Quintasan> hmm if the app uses qmake in compiling process I should use kde4.mk file from pkg-kde-tools or not?
[20:33] <Quintasan> nvm, trying with cmake.mk
[20:47] <JontheEchidna> So what's this KPackageKit threading issue? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic the spec doesn't say anything about it
[20:49] <rgreening> Riddell: http://roderick-greening.blogspot.com/2009/06/usb-creator-kde-adventures-in-gobject.html
[20:50] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: do you happen to know answer to my question 4 lines up? :P
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: there is a qmake.mk in cdbs somewhere
[20:50] <Quintasan> I'll give it a try
[20:58] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: It's alive! Thanks :D
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> ^.^
[21:01] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: problem with dpkg-genchanges, you used debhelper.mk to solve this issue?
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I believe it does need debhelper.mk
[21:05]  * txwikinger_work likes the new kde crash handler
[21:16] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/acetoneiso <-- please review if you can
[21:25] <Quintasan> hmm I'm afraid I closed bug #6666666 which doesn't exist >_<
[21:26] <jussi01> *g*
[21:38] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: should be fine now
[21:54] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: outdated Standards-Version in debian/control
[21:55] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: it's possible to stop dput from uploading sauce?
[21:55] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you hear 3.8.2 is out now?
[21:55] <ScottK> Quintasan: ctrl C
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: nope, hadn't heard that
[21:57] <Quintasan> so I should put 3.8.2?
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: if its not a 0ubuntu1 release, debuild -S will do that
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> otherwise debuild -S -sd
[21:58] <ScottK> Quintasan: You'd need to make sure you comply with 3.8.2 first.
[21:58] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: also:
[21:58] <JontheEchidna> E: acetoneiso source: missing-comma-between-items in depends field between 'ffmpeg' and 'mencoder',
[22:05] <neversfelde> I have a problem when updating daisy http://pastebin.ca/1464057
[22:05] <neversfelde> why does this happen and how can I solve it.
[22:08] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: fixed
[22:09] <Quintasan> neversfelde: this propably means something is wrong with the patch, check the *.rej files
[22:10] <neversfelde> mhh, but there is no patch
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> I'd just untar the new tarball manually and copy over the debian dir
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> which is basically what uscan would do
[22:11] <JontheEchidna> dunno why it's doing that tho
[22:11] <neversfelde> ok, watchfile is broken, too. He renamed to plasma-applet-daisy
[22:14] <vorian> shamalama
[22:15] <vorian> JontheEchidna: what method are you using to attempt grabbing noaa info for your desktop app?
[22:15] <vorian> as far as noaa xml/rss?
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> the weather dataengine
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> it does all of it for meh
[22:16] <vorian> ahreah
[22:16] <vorian> nevermind then :)
[22:18] <JontheEchidna> I suppose I should try to find a way to not display that provider
[22:19] <neversfelde> vorian: hi
[22:19] <vorian> hola neversfelde!
[22:20] <neversfelde> vorian: you mentioned, that I did somethin wrong last time I searched a sponsor for universe
[22:20] <neversfelde> it is not enough to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[22:20] <vorian> yes, do that
[22:20] <vorian> and set the bug as confirmed
[22:21] <neversfelde> ah ok
[22:21]  * vorian doesn't remember the exact thing he noticed last time
[22:21] <rgreening> kwwii: ping ping ping
[22:22] <neversfelde> vorian: you said something about setting it to confirmed, so I guess that was the problem :)
[22:22] <rgreening> kwwii: looking for a reccommendation on icon to use for a button (button has text Format, and when clicked formats a USB stick...)
[22:22] <vorian> neversfelde: that must be it then :)
[22:22] <rgreening> kwwii: wanting an appropriate oxygen icon name to use...
[22:22] <vorian> neversfelde: have a link?
[22:23] <neversfelde> vorian: I can't remember where it was at the moment
[22:23] <vorian> ok
[22:24] <rgreening> kwwii: maybe... drive-removable-media? but wasn't sure if something better
[22:25] <neversfelde> seven written tests each 6 hours deleted every info in my brain :)
[22:35] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: uploaded source :3
[22:38] <neversfelde> I hope that I did it right this time, bug 388680 needs a sponsor
[22:39] <Quintasan> apachelogger, Riddell
[22:39] <Quintasan> argh
[22:40] <Quintasan> apachelogger, Riddell: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/acetoneiso <-- please take a look if you can
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: btw, vorian can do revus too
[22:41] <vorian> wha!
[22:41] <vorian> ohmy
[22:41] <vorian> he wont want me to review
[22:41] <Quintasan> vorian: quoting my friend: "DO IT NAO!" :P
[22:42] <Quintasan> vorian: you are added to my list :3
[22:42] <vorian> Quintasan: did you get the proper bug?
[22:42] <Quintasan> yup :D
[22:42] <Quintasan> hmm
[22:42] <Quintasan> bug #666
[22:42] <Quintasan> :D
[22:43] <vorian> hmm
[22:43] <rgreening> evil
[22:44] <vorian> yus, very much so
[22:44] <Quintasan> rgreening: you can also do revu? :P
[22:48] <vorian> Quintasan: drop the (c) or use ©
[22:48] <vorian> control has a line that exceeds 80 chars
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> huh, how did I miss those...
[22:49] <vorian> i'm not sure about the long description - "plenty of other things"
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that was a bit iffy
[22:51]  * vorian builds
[22:51] <neversfelde> gnarf, forgot to bump debhelper and compat
[22:51] <Quintasan> well, it can download things from uT, extract audio from videos, what should I put there?
[22:52] <vorian> Quintasan: It would be great if you could be specific (like you just were)
[22:52] <vorian> list several
[22:52] <Quintasan> ok
[22:52] <vorian> it's okay for it to list more, it is the long description after all :)
[22:55] <vorian> Quintasan: it's 'Upstream Authors:' not 'Upstream Author(s):'
[22:56] <Quintasan> I didn't get rid of ()...
[22:56] <vorian> right, you need to
[22:56] <Quintasan> I always remember abut big things like build deps, right license but those all minor details...
[22:57] <Quintasan> argh
[22:57] <vorian> the .desktop file has some issues too
[22:57] <vorian> W: acetoneiso: desktop-entry-contains-deprecated-key usr/share/applications/AcetoneISO.desktop:17 TerminalOptions
[22:58] <Quintasan> hmm, I haven't looked at it though
[22:58] <vorian> I: acetoneiso: desktop-entry-contains-encoding-key /usr/share/applications/AcetoneISO.desktop:5 Encoding
[22:58] <Quintasan> worth patching I guess
[22:58] <vorian> W: acetoneiso: duplicated-key-in-desktop-entry /usr/share/applications/AcetoneISO.desktop:12 GenericName
[22:58] <vorian> last (but not least) is the MANPAGE!!!!
[22:58] <vorian> wiki pod2man
[22:59] <nixternal> anyone have any ideas on a "Feedback Application" or such that we can offer on the CDs during the development cycle? This is a task I have picked and I am arse deep in the lost forest
[22:59] <vorian> hmm
[23:00] <nixternal> I have looked at various survey apps and they are either a) utter crap or b) way to much
[23:00] <rickspencer3> seele: ping
[23:01] <vorian> Quintasan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpage
[23:02] <vorian> Quintasan: other than that, fantastic job!
[23:02] <Quintasan> vorian: kk, patching desktop file :P
[23:03] <vorian> would you like me to bullet-point my review on revu?
[23:03] <Quintasan> not really :P
[23:03] <vorian> ok
[23:03] <vorian> hold on a second
[23:04] <vorian> There is a copyrighted png
[23:04] <vorian> apsx.png
[23:05] <vorian> Quintasan: there is a playstation png in this source
[23:05] <Quintasan> hmm
[23:05] <vorian> and apple
[23:06] <vorian> and youtube
[23:06] <Quintasan> argh, I need to check license for those
[23:07] <vorian> oh, and a TACO!
[23:07] <Quintasan> I guess I should mention it below the main license in copyright?
[23:08] <vorian> I don't think we can include those, they woun't be properly licenced in the source
[23:08] <rickspencer3> http://eeepc.itrunsonlinux.com/the-news/310-kde-linux-netbook-desktop
[23:08] <vorian> wont
[23:09] <Quintasan> vorian: so how should I deal with it?
[23:11] <vorian> get with upstream about either providing the licence upon which they are able to distribute these icons, or get rid of them
[23:11] <vorian> #2 is prolly what will happen
[23:12] <vorian> 06/17/09|15:48 < vorian> he wont want me to review
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> an archive admin would probably reject it with the current licensing situation
[23:19] <rgreening> hey rickspencer3
[23:19] <rickspencer3> hi rgreening
[23:20] <rickspencer3> any movement on the 100 paper cut thing?
[23:20] <rgreening> I haven't heard anything new. I've been heads down into usb-creator-kde
[23:20] <rgreening> rickspencer3: http://roderick-greening.blogspot.com/2009/06/usb-creator-kde-in-action-and-with.html
[23:21] <rgreening> one small piece of the netbook puzzle
[23:21] <rickspencer3> sweet
[23:21] <rickspencer3> an important one
[23:21] <rickspencer3> making it possible to actually boot!
[23:21] <rgreening> :)
[23:22] <rgreening> It's getting pretty close to usable :P
[23:22] <tsdgeos> hi
[23:22] <rgreening> got a few more kinks to work out..
[23:22] <tsdgeos> which is the ppa url for alpha 2?
[23:23] <rgreening> tsdgeos: are you looking for the kubuntu desktop iso or something else?
[23:23] <tsdgeos> i'm looking for the ppa url that contains debian packages kde 4.3 alpha 2
[23:23] <tsdgeos> for jaunty
[23:24] <rgreening> beta 2 I assume you mean...
[23:24] <tsdgeos> that's it
[23:24] <vorian> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental
[23:24] <rgreening> :)
[23:24] <Quintasan> vorian: http://pastebin.com/f54355079 <-- am I doing in rifht?
[23:24] <Quintasan> right*
[23:24] <rgreening> tsdgeos: what vorian said
[23:24] <vorian> Quintasan: yep
[23:25] <Quintasan> so for now I need to kick upstream
[23:25] <vorian> Quintasan: i would resolve the .png stuff first
[23:25] <vorian> and have them fix the .desktop file while they are at it
[23:25] <Quintasan> booo, and I finished patching :P
[23:26] <tsdgeos> vorian: rgreening: tx
[23:26] <vorian> no problemo
[23:26] <rgreening> np
[23:30] <Quintasan> vorian: psx, apple, utube, ataco, did you notice more files with issues?
[23:31] <vorian> there are some crystal icons, which i think are gpl-2 or later
[23:31]  * vorian finds out
[23:32] <vorian> oh, lgpl
[23:33] <Quintasan> hmm it wont generate previews for me :/
[23:33] <vorian> in dolphin?
[23:33] <Quintasan> yup
[23:34] <vorian> no idear
[23:34] <Quintasan> which ones are lgpl? I will deal with them first
[23:34] <vorian> actually
[23:35] <vorian> he doesn't attribute any of the icons
[23:35] <vorian> are the dudes on irc?
[23:36] <vorian> oh
[23:36] <vorian> also
[23:36] <vorian> on your control file
[23:36]  * vorian stops
[23:36] <vorian> lets figure out the icons first
[23:36] <Quintasan> :D
[23:37] <vorian> :)
[23:37] <Quintasan> just to be sure, I'm thinking of going like this
[23:38] <Quintasan> images/<file> - is licensed with <license type>
[23:38] <Quintasan> hmm, maybe not
[23:39] <Quintasan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright Information
[23:39] <Quintasan> :3
[23:40] <Quintasan> wtf, there is also Nero icon
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> Whenever I try to get this down to 2,500 I never make it: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=kde
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> :(
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> I got it down to 2501 today
[23:46] <javi> ... it shows 2451 to me
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> oh, private bugs probably
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> they won't show to people who aren't bugsquad/ubuntu developers
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> usually because apport is way too careful about such things and makes tons of the autoreported bugs private
[23:48]  * ScottK thinks it is correctly careful.
[23:49] <javi> well just to contribute and make that you don't reach the 2500 mark, if i have something to report about kpackagekit, do i report it to launchpad, kdebugs or where?
[23:49] <javi> :D
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> from konsole, ubuntu-bug kpackagekit
[23:50] <Quintasan> vorian: I'm really sleepy right now. Guess I'll finish it tomorrow, if you will find something please ping me :P
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> though as long as you don't include the word kde it won't show up in that search :P
[23:51] <Quintasan> night everyone
[23:51] <javi> i'll make up something to get into it :D
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> lol
[23:53] <zaperr> alguien habla español?
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> !es
[23:54] <zaperr> ok
[23:58] <javi> JontheEchidna: ubuntu-bug, no matter if it's a more a wish than a bug?
[23:58] <ScottK> javi: Yes.
[23:59] <javi> ok, thanks