[00:10] <TheMuso> Morning robert_ancell.
[00:11] <robert_ancell> TheMuso: Hey Luke
[00:11] <awe>  /back
[00:16] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: TheMuso hi
[00:16] <rickspencer3> awe, hi
[00:16] <TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
[00:16] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hi
[00:16] <rickspencer3> sorry, I was tuned out, I was capturing the ntoes from this morning's team meeting
[00:16] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-16
[00:16] <TheMuso> np
[00:16] <awe> rickspencer3: hey back
[00:16] <rickspencer3> eer, last nights team meeting for you guys :)
[00:16]  * TheMuso reads
[00:17] <rickspencer3> awe: are you just hanging out, or are you here for the team meeting, Eastern edition?
[00:17] <awe> just hanging out...
[00:17] <awe> i was gonna ask you when this meeting was... now I know.  ;)
[00:18] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: robert_ancell: how do you want to do this?
[00:19] <rickspencer3> do you want me to drive like in the big meeting?
[00:19] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes, I think that will work best
[00:19]  * TheMuso is reading the minutes and is looking at things he may want to discuss, just a sec.
[00:21]  * rickspencer3 drums fingers
[00:21]  * rickspencer3 whistles
[00:21] <TheMuso> I still have 1 spec to finish drafting and get approval for, which is audio, however I've asked for help from dtchen to get his input.
[00:21] <TheMuso> He has done that so far as he has told me, I still need to have a look, but I suspect things are almost in good shape. I'll get that finished off today.
[00:22] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:22] <rickspencer3> let's go through quickly in order
[00:22] <rickspencer3> Feature Definition Freeze
[00:22] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: do you have any blueprints for Karmic?
[00:23] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: I have the compiz blueprint, I'm not sure if it needs the same actions as the other blueprints - feedback?
[00:23] <rickspencer3> can you paste a link?
[00:23] <robert_ancell> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/compiz-bug-management
[00:24] <rickspencer3> yes, I think it would be good to go through the process
[00:24] <rickspencer3> I think your "actions" could be considered work items
[00:24] <rickspencer3> you may not need a spec, though
[00:24] <rickspencer3> perhaps add some detail, and ask pitti to review
[00:24] <robert_ancell> My current status: Have produced a wiki page for users, triaged ~200 bugs, bug count is reduced by 100 since starting
[00:24] <robert_ancell> OK, will work on that today
[00:25]  * rickspencer3 adds to notes
[00:26] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: sounds like you are on track
[00:26] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah I think so at this point.
[00:26] <rickspencer3> next was the partner update
[00:27] <rickspencer3> DXE is gearing up, not expecting any particular issues there
[00:27] <TheMuso> Right, I'll be watching gdm closely however due to possible accessibility issues.
[00:27] <rickspencer3> U1 is undergoing Main Inclusion Review, looks like the filesynching should be in main by next week
[00:27] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: are you aware of any accesibility issues now?
[00:28] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Not with current gdm, but I haven't tried the new one yet. Accessibility issues that I have in mind are related to accessible loginw tih speech/magnification.
[00:28] <rickspencer3> can you please ping kenvandine and tell him how to test it?
[00:28] <rickspencer3> he has it running in a VM
[00:28] <rickspencer3> if there are issues, I would like to know asap
[00:29] <TheMuso> Ok, I am not sure if the new GDM has a different architecture/configuration mechanism to what we currently hae, so I need to look into that.
[00:29] <TheMuso> s/hae/have/
[00:29] <rickspencer3> it would be useful to tell kenvandine what to look for
[00:29] <rickspencer3> so that we spread the skill around a bit
[00:29] <rickspencer3> is that okay?
[00:29] <TheMuso> Ok, I'll email him.
[00:29] <TheMuso> Fine by me.
[00:30] <rickspencer3> ACTION: TheMuso to email kenvandine regarding accessibility testing for new GDM
[00:30] <TheMuso> I'll also need to test empathy once its part of the desktop for accessibility issues as well
[00:30] <rickspencer3> Kubuntu is rocking and rolling as always
[00:30] <rickspencer3> you can see a couple of new features there
[00:30] <rickspencer3> next ...
[00:31] <rickspencer3> Till has fixed a fairly widespread issue with printing, looks like there will be an SRU for Jaunty, fix will be in Karmic shortly
[00:31]  * TheMuso can help with merges.
[00:31] <rickspencer3> ACTION: All - review https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and ask pitti for assistance if needed
[00:31]  * rickspencer3 suspects TheMuso is reading ahead :)
[00:31] <TheMuso> I am./
[00:31] <robert_ancell> Also look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html, it is easier than MoM
[00:31]  * TheMuso is used to MoM, but looks at seb's script as well.
[00:31] <TheMuso> c/
[00:32] <rickspencer3> looks like  you are both mentioned in pitti's report
[00:32] <rickspencer3> next ... we are going to switch to empathy this week
[00:32] <rickspencer3> next ... bug assignment
[00:33] <rickspencer3> this was a big discussion you guys missed last week, but essentially it boils down to:
[00:33] <rickspencer3> having a bug assigned to you is a commitment to try to fix it in the current release
[00:33] <rickspencer3> have either of you been treating them differently than that?
[00:34] <robert_ancell> Assigned means "commitment to fix" to me but not necessarily in next release
[00:34] <TheMuso> No, although I probably have a few bugs that are languishing that I need to either look at or kill off.
[00:34] <robert_ancell> but I think next release is appropriate
[00:34] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: you said we are mentioned in Martin's report. Which report?
[00:35] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, please unassign bugs that you aren't going to fix
[00:35] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah I intend to.
[00:35] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: ok
[00:36] <rickspencer3> in terms of the report, i was referring to ACTION: All - review https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and ask pitti for assistance if needed
[00:36] <rickspencer3> I just grepped your nicks though, so not sure what context you were mentioned
[00:36]  * rickspencer3 has been totally busted being lazy
[00:36] <TheMuso> oh ok
[00:37] <rickspencer3> ok .. so then there was this pretty long discussion about quality measures
[00:37] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Since I changed teams, I had my performance review with Robbie, but you and I need to sort out my goals for this cycle/6 months.
[00:37] <rickspencer3> I am looking for some indicators about the current quality of the product so that I can sleep at night
[00:37] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, let's chat about that right after the meeting
[00:38] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Ok sounds good.
[00:38] <rickspencer3> in terms of quality measures, I'm looking for something to measure, like incoming bugs versus resolved bugs, etc...
[00:38] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[00:38] <TheMuso> Not really atm.
[00:39] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: that metric will probably be getting worse as ubuntu gets more popular
[00:39] <rickspencer3> hmm
[00:39] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: right, that was brought up
[00:39] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: perhaps a debian "testing" style measurement
[00:39] <rickspencer3> just a raw number of bugs is a measure of popularity, not quality
[00:39] <TheMuso> Audio hardware bugs are always going to be a pain, due to the pain of hda.
[00:39] <rickspencer3> I don't know what those are
[00:39] <robert_ancell> i.e. no critical bugs open, no big bugs being opened
[00:40] <rickspencer3> so percentage of bug severities?
[00:40] <rickspencer3> that's a good idea
[00:40] <robert_ancell> See "Testing" on http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/control-center.html
[00:40] <robert_ancell> "Testing status"
[00:40]  * rickspencer3 book marks
[00:40] <robert_ancell> They have a very mature system of validating which packages are stable enough to go from unstable to testing (all automatic)
[00:40] <rickspencer3> ok, I'll be dinking with that over the next week or so
[00:40] <rickspencer3> thanks for the link
[00:41] <rickspencer3> any other thoughts on that?
[00:41] <robert_ancell> +1 to have a metric
[00:41] <rickspencer3> :)
[00:41] <rickspencer3> okay, next topic should be a relief to robert_ancell
[00:41] <rickspencer3> quickly mailing list and disussion time
[00:41] <rickspencer3> I'll set that up
[00:41] <TheMuso> What is quickly?
[00:41] <rickspencer3> what's quickly?
[00:42] <rickspencer3> what isn't quickly?
[00:42]  * robert_ancell someone hasn't heard of rickspencer3 baby :)
[00:42] <rickspencer3> it mows the law, slices your bread, feeds the hungry
[00:42] <TheMuso> I thought it was an ap of some sort
[00:42] <TheMuso> s/ap/app/
[00:42] <rickspencer3> there is nothing more important in this world than quickly

[00:42] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: seriouslu
[00:42] <rickspencer3> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickly
[00:43] <rickspencer3> it's a system to make application development on Ubuntu much easier
[00:43] <TheMuso> ok
[00:43] <TheMuso> ah
[00:43] <rickspencer3> including project templates and making things like creating PPAs and such much easier
[00:43] <TheMuso> ok sounds good.
[00:43] <rickspencer3> so you can say "quickly release" and it does all the magic to make a ppa for you
[00:43] <rickspencer3> if either of you are interested, please join the mailing list!
[00:43] <rickspencer3> that goes for everyone really
[00:44] <rickspencer3> (but this should cut down on me harassing robert_ancell first thing in the morning)
[00:44] <rickspencer3> ;)
[00:44] <TheMuso> I'll probably check it out when its more mature for a11y stuff it has a GTK UI.
[00:44] <TheMuso> a11y = accessibility
[00:44] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: didn't get time to look at it yesterday, will try to today
[00:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:45] <rickspencer3> schnext is seb128's script, which you've already pointed to
[00:45] <rickspencer3> and also ccheney, besides changing his nick, has also added rosetta support to OOo, which is kinda cool
[00:45] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[00:45] <TheMuso> not from me
[00:46] <robert_ancell> Note malone is probably going to stop sending notifications of bug duplicates: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/46237
[00:46] <robert_ancell> Yay!
[00:46] <rickspencer3> coolio
[00:46] <robert_ancell> (I sent out ~300 duplicate emails to ~300 people triaging compiz...)
[00:47] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:47] <TheMuso> haha
[00:47] <rickspencer3> it happens to everyone eventually
[00:47] <robert_ancell> Yeah, they didn't find it so haha...
[00:47] <rickspencer3> this means you are fully integrated!
[00:47] <ajmitch> a very welcome change to malone there
[00:47] <rickspencer3> well, if it impacted them negatively, they need to tune their automated bug handling
[00:48] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: TheMuso: was this useful for you?
[00:48] <robert_ancell> yes
[00:48] <rickspencer3> it took about 22 minutes
[00:48] <TheMuso> Yes, although I was reading ahead to deal with items that concerned me talking to you. A lot of that stuff probably didn't need repeating in here, since it was informational.
[00:48] <TheMuso> but that will vary from week to week depending on the agenda.
[00:49] <robert_ancell> I think we're currently more reviewing the western meeting, I think in future there will be more discussion from my side
[00:49] <TheMuso> Right.
[00:49] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: do you have anything to discuss?
[00:49] <robert_ancell> I'm done
[00:49] <rickspencer3> there were no agenda items
[00:50] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: same for you?
[00:50] <rickspencer3> did you have agenda items that I missed?
[00:50] <robert_ancell> I'm working on compiz + updating packages this week so not a lot to report
[00:50] <TheMuso> No I didn't. I'd indicate them in my report if I did.
[00:50] <rickspencer3> ok
[00:50] <rickspencer3> next week we should start with me asking you for agenda items
[00:50] <rickspencer3> and discuss those first
[00:51] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: was the review of the western meeting useful?
[00:51] <TheMuso> I'd put any in my report, so I don't think asking is necessary if they are in our reports.
[00:51] <rickspencer3> I can just pull out announcements next time
[00:51] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, but sometimes there are things to *discuss* rather then just report
[00:51] <rickspencer3> like if you want help, or see a problematic issue, etc...
[00:51] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes
[00:51] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes I know, but I would mark those for discussion in my report.
[00:52]  * TheMuso is trying to be efficient with these meetings.
[00:52] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, I'll try to look out for those
[00:52] <rickspencer3> sweet
[00:52] <rickspencer3> I'll add a few things from here to meeting minutes before I send them out
[00:53] <rickspencer3> cheers!
[00:53] <TheMuso> np
[01:01]  * robert_ancell eats breakfast. mmmm
[01:01] <TheMuso> Wow thats late. :)
[01:02] <TheMuso> Breakfast was a little over 2 hours ago for me.
[01:02] <robert_ancell> :)
[01:03]  * TheMuso freely admits he is an early riser.
[01:03] <TheMuso> Especially in winter, when walking of a morning in the cool air is enjoyable.
[01:05] <robert_ancell> ok, now that is crazy
[01:06] <TheMuso> Once you warm up, you're fine. And warm gear is needed of course, but thats no big deal.
[06:39] <TheMuso> Is evolution 2.27.3-0ubuntu1 crashing at startup for anyone else?
[06:39] <pitti> Good morning
[06:41] <pitti> rickspencer3-afk, robert_ancell: indeed I consider "assigned" as "I will realistically get to this in a reasonable time frame", which doesn't necessarily mean "this release"
[06:42] <pitti> (which is pretty unrealistic for bugs which you get close to the end of the cycle anyway)
[07:26] <didrocks> good morning
[07:52] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:01] <didrocks> pitti: how are you? The flu is definitevely gone? :)
[08:01] <pitti> didrocks: oh, absolutely (for some time already)
[08:01] <pitti> it was just a cold, not a real flu
[08:03] <crevette> hello
[08:06] <didrocks> robert_ancell: hum, I think you didn't understood how quickly is looking for commands
[08:08] <robert_ancell> didrocks: how should it be?
[08:08] <didrocks> robert_ancell: commands can be built in are in a template
[08:09] <didrocks> so, you never know if the commands exist when parsing args
[08:09] <didrocks> that's why I detected the commands in a second step
[08:09] <didrocks> for instance, now, if I take your version in a ubuntu-project based template project
[08:09] <didrocks> and try "quickly release"
[08:09] <didrocks> I get an unkown command
[08:10] <didrocks> even if release is in templates/ubuntu-project/release.py
[08:10] <robert_ancell> didrocks: ok, can  we then assume everything preceeding a command starts with '-'?
[08:10] <didrocks> robert_ancell: no, commands doesn't begins with -
[08:10] <didrocks> for instance, new is a command, so we have "quickly new ..."
[08:10] <robert_ancell> didrocks: no, preceeding (before) the command
[08:11] <didrocks> robert_ancell: that is to say, we have options ?
[08:11] <robert_ancell> yes
[08:11] <didrocks> robert_ancell: no
[08:11] <didrocks> look at the spec, we can have a template
[08:11] <didrocks> but this one can be included in the .quickly file
[08:11] <didrocks> I make this check after
[08:12] <didrocks> and print "unkown command" if needed
[08:12] <didrocks> the only thing you have to change to your stuff is to accept unkown command at this stage
[08:12] <robert_ancell> didrocks: where is the spec?
[08:13] <didrocks> 5qlsom your removed some of the variables I use later :/
[08:13] <didrocks> (opt_hat_template and opt_template)
[08:13] <didrocks> robert_ancell: still drafting but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Quickly
[08:14] <robert_ancell> didrocks: can that be linked off the quickly LP page easily
[08:14] <didrocks> robert_ancell: you can add it, but as long as it has not been approved...
[08:16] <pitti> robert_ancell: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/compiz-bug-management is still "drafting"; I guess you don't actually want to produce a full spec wiki page about this? the whiteboard seems okay to me
[08:17] <pitti> robert_ancell: do you still want to work on this, or shall I review it for approval?
[08:17] <pitti> robert_ancell: most actions look fine to me, just "Consider how to manage incoming bugs to keep manageable" is blurry
[08:17] <pitti> the other action items address this, though
[08:18] <pitti> robert_ancell: I do like action 4
[08:19] <robert_ancell> pitti: I just made some work items for it.  The actions was what was proposed in the meeting.  I consider that a list of things we should do and the actions items things we will do
[08:20] <pitti> robert_ancell: e. g. action 4 should get a work item (write/run script to mark all old bugs as incomplete and ask for re-testing)
[08:20] <pitti> and another script to time out bugs without response (bryce has this already, I think)
[08:21] <didrocks> robert_ancell: I'm fixing it right now
[08:22] <robert_ancell> didrocks: ok, I was just doing it too! :) you do it
[08:22] <didrocks> robert_ancell: if you want, you can :)
[08:23] <bryce> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/expire-bugs.py
[08:23] <didrocks> robert_ancell: it it clearer now, how we find commands?
[08:23] <robert_ancell> didrocks: I think it's really important the command-line is clear and give appropriate feedback.  When I checked it out and ran it it gave a very odd warning.  And if I pass --laskjda to it it didn't complain at all
[08:24] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, the option handling wasn't great. I didn't focussed on it
[08:24] <bryce> robert_ancell, pitti: this one might be easily adaptable for your action 4:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/needs-retest.py
[08:24] <robert_ancell> bryce: thanks
[08:25] <robert_ancell> didrocks: I was running it as a first user might and it wasn't clear to me (understand not the first priority though).
[08:25] <bryce> both of those expect 'arsenal_lib.py' to be in the current working dir; that file is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/arsenal_lib.py
[08:25] <didrocks> robert_ancell: ok, so, please, fix it and tell me. I will then try it :)
[08:25] <didrocks> robert_ancell: to assure the basic work, you can try to run:
[08:26] <didrocks> quickly new ubuntu-project project1
[08:26] <didrocks> cd project1
[08:26] <didrocks> quickly release
[08:26] <robert_ancell> pitti: update
[08:26] <didrocks> "quickly -t ubuntu-project release" must work as well
[08:26] <robert_ancell> didrocks: But a first user will try
[08:26] <robert_ancell> quickly
[08:26] <robert_ancell> quickly --help
[08:26] <pitti> robert_ancell: nice; please set it to 'review' once you are ready
[08:27] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, quickly or quickly --help must give the usage :)
[08:27] <robert_ancell> didrocks: and if you run:
[08:27] <robert_ancell> quickly new template name --arg
[08:27] <robert_ancell> or
[08:28] <robert_ancell> quickly --arg new template name
[08:28] <robert_ancell> does both work/it warn you you have entered it wrong?
[08:28] <didrocks> no, it should both work (it was the case with the limitted option I gave)
[08:28] <didrocks> robert_ancell: we only use for quickly our know option
[08:29] <didrocks> robert_ancell: for unkown one, we give it to the command
[08:29] <robert_ancell> and:
[08:29] <didrocks> when calling subprocess.call(...)
[08:29] <robert_ancell> quickly new --arg template name gives odd response :)
[08:29] <didrocks> robert_ancell: in my version of code ?
[08:31] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, that's bad handled :)
[08:31] <didrocks> robert_ancell: again, I didn't focussed on command parsing, just making it a little better than the first draft I had
[08:31] <robert_ancell> didrocks: no worries, I'm just be pedantic too early :)
[08:31] <didrocks> robert_ancell: so, if you can make it better, you're really welcome :)
[08:32] <robert_ancell> didrocks: I've pushed it back to how it was, you may want to check if the usage description seems appropriate though
[08:32] <robert_ancell> I think we need to add to the spec how the command processors can pass back to quickly "I got stuff I didn't understand, show the usage + my usage"
[08:33] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, add it :)
[08:33] <didrocks> robert_ancell: but option parsing must be cleverer than it is, if you have something to propose, don't hesitate :)
[08:34] <didrocks> robert_ancell: if the user case I gave you works, the basics are there
[08:34] <robert_ancell> didrocks: I'll think about it :)
[08:34] <robert_ancell> didrocks: also, was there a reason why there is a .ui file for the about dialog?  Usually you just generate it on demans
[08:35] <robert_ancell> s/demans/demand
[08:36] <didrocks> robert_ancell: I completed the usage()
[08:36] <didrocks> robert_ancell: not sure, I didn't handled this part
[08:36] <didrocks> robert_ancell: it's on pygtk?
[08:37] <didrocks> some kind of "about dialog" function
[08:37] <didrocks> (I'm giving myself the target to learn pygtk be the end of the summer)
[08:37] <robert_ancell> didrocks: gtk.show_about_dialog
[08:38] <robert_ancell> because you probably don't ever need to customise it
[08:38] <robert_ancell> I'll make the change
[08:38] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, a way better :)
[08:38] <robert_ancell> didrocks: did you push?
[08:39] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, it's pushed
[08:39] <didrocks> robert_ancell: if you have some time and can confirm that quickly release in an "ubuntu-project project" works for you... :)
[08:40] <robert_ancell> didrocks: ?
[08:41] <didrocks> robert_ancell: /path/to/quickly.py new ubuntu-project dummyproject ; cd dummyproject ; /path/to/quickly.py release
[08:45] <didrocks> robert_ancell: the main issue is that unkown arguments and options are given to the command we execute in subprocess.call() and we don't know if they wait for parameters or not. So, we have to triage between our options "--template, --staging" and leave others alone...
[08:46] <robert_ancell> didrocks: it should probably notify what launchpad settings it required
[08:46] <robert_ancell> requires
[08:47] <didrocks> robert_ancell: look at the comment in commit 55
[08:48] <robert_ancell> didrocks: hehe
[08:49] <didrocks> at first glance, I used manage-credential to do it automatically, without asking the user
[08:49] <didrocks> but well, this is bad to ask for email/password in a third-app
[08:49] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:49] <seb128> hello there
[08:49] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:49] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:49] <didrocks> so, we have to wait for LP team to fix this, I think :)
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: just to avoid double work, I just sponsored gnome-games, libsoup2.4, and eog
[08:50] <pitti> grabbing some more now
[08:50] <seb128> pitti, you rock ;-)
[08:50] <seb128> didrocks, to fix what?
[08:50] <pitti> grabbing vte now
[08:51] <didrocks> seb128: asking from restricted options when use lp crendential (for instance, just "full access" or "deny" in the web page)
[08:52] <robert_ancell> didrocks: turns out that gtk.show_about_dialog is segfaulting at the moment, so wont add that in...
[08:52] <robert_ancell> seb128: is there a way to run versions from a desktop? It doesn't like the files in index/
[08:52] <didrocks> robert_ancell: that's a good reason to avoid adding it, yes ^^
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: sponsoring with bzr bd is just too much fun :)
[08:53] <seb128> indeed ;-)
[08:53] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey, what do you mean?
[08:53] <didrocks> (thx for sponsoring pitti, btw ;))
[08:53] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm running it on my karmic laptop usually, what error do you get? do you use karmic?
[08:53] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for the updates
[08:54] <robert_ancell> seb128: if i check out and run i get errors i.e. E:Archive directory ./index/karmic/var/cache/apt/archives/partial is missing.
[08:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, using karmic uptodate? the python-apt mvo uploaded some days ago is supposed to create those directories now
[08:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise you need to create the directories by hand
[08:55] <robert_ancell> seb128: also, is there a reason why not all the GNOME stuff in in there?
[08:55] <robert_ancell> seb128: ah, I have a pending python-apt upgrade...
[08:55] <seb128> what is not listed?
[08:55] <robert_ancell> seb128: anjuta, cheese...
[08:55] <seb128> I've been trying to list things we focus on, ie default install
[08:56] <seb128> we can probably add a second table with some universe components
[08:56] <robert_ancell> seb128: I was going to make a patch so you could toggle core and everything
[08:56] <seb128> that would be nice
[08:56] <robert_ancell> and make the columns sortable
[08:56] <robert_ancell> seb128: now I can run locally I'll throw a bunch of patches tomorrow :)
[08:56] <seb128> good ;-)
[08:57] <seb128> it works after the python-apt update?
[08:57] <robert_ancell> yes
[08:57] <robert_ancell> :)
[08:57] <seb128> cool
[08:57] <robert_ancell> seb128: do you mind if I commit directly?
[08:58] <seb128> as long as you don't break it feel free to do the changes you want ;-)
[08:58] <robert_ancell> seb128: that's what version control is for! Rolling back breakages :)
[08:58] <seb128> I need to set a cron job somewhere to get the page regularly updated too
[08:58] <seb128> lol, right
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: don't you run the script on rookery?
[08:59] <pitti> oh, you need karmic's p-apt
[08:59] <seb128> pitti, no, I run it on $localhost for now
[08:59] <seb128> pitti, I don't "need" the python-apt from karmic, it's just handy because it create the cache, etc dir for you
[08:59] <seb128> otherwise you can do that by hand and use an old python-apt
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: ok, so you could run it on rookery? (that's much easier for cron'ing)
[09:00] <seb128> I guess so, though when I tried to run it the other day it created dapper indexed for some reason
[09:00] <seb128> indexes
[09:01] <seb128> I need to ping mvo about it
[09:02] <mvo> seb128: it uses lsb_release for the dist, but that is easy to fix, I will add a commandline switch for it
[09:02] <seb128> mvo, I'm not using your code
[09:02] <mvo> aha
[09:02] <seb128> or rather not your command, I copied the code in the versions.py source
[09:02] <seb128> mvo, bzr get lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
[09:03]  * mvo gets
[09:04] <robert_ancell> gtg, see you guys tomorrow
[09:05] <pitti> bye robert_ancell
[09:05] <mvo> bye robert_ancell
[09:05] <didrocks> bye robert_ancell
[09:05] <seb128> robert_ancell, good evening
[09:05] <robert_ancell> seb128 has to be different :)
[09:09] <pitti> seb128: grabbing pdf2djvu, koffice, metacity
[09:09] <seb128> ok
[09:09] <seb128> I'm still catching up with emails from the night
[09:10] <seb128> pitti, I will do gnome-system-monitor gconf if you didn't do those yet
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: no, I planned to stop after those
[09:11] <pitti> vte is still building
[09:11] <pitti> meh, debcheckout -a metacity gives me jaunty
[09:11] <seb128> it didn't change since?
[09:11] <pitti> 1:2.26.0-0ubuntu1 is in karmic
[09:12] <seb128> ok, so maybe somebody didn't update bzr?
[09:12] <pitti> apparently
[09:12] <pitti> and robert committed on top of the jaunty version
[09:12]  * pitti will fix
[09:17] <pitti> lool: ^ I commit your 1:2.26.0-0ubuntu1 to bzr now; please check Vcs-Bzr: for uploads
[09:24] <seb128> didrocks, there?
[09:25] <YokoZar> pitti: I'm finished drafting https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-wine-integration   if you'd kindly set it to "needs review" (or whatever the next state is supposed to be), thanks :)
[09:25] <pitti> YokoZar: thanks! oh, you can't set it yourself? that's weird
[09:25] <seb128_> ups
[09:26] <YokoZar> pitti: oh I guess I can
[09:26] <YokoZar> pitti: never been master of a spec before ;)
[09:27] <pitti> soren: ok, sponsoring queue is all your's, did my daily hour ;)
[09:27] <pitti> erm, I actually meant seb128, but it equally applies for soren I guess :)
[09:27] <seb128> pitti, you rock!
[09:27] <seb128> pitti, btw do you track the polkit-1, etc changes?
[09:27] <pitti> seb128: (huge *sigh*)
[09:28] <pitti> I discussed that extensively with mbiebl in Barcelona
[09:28] <pitti> this makes me weep
[09:28] <seb128> I don't know about it
[09:28] <pitti> seems David keeps introducing new APIs without providing a transition path and finishing other transitions first :(
[09:28] <seb128> but we can't build the current gvfs 2.27 version on karmic
[09:28] <seb128> because it requires gdu trunk which apparently requires polkit-1 now
[09:28] <pitti> it's a new API, new storage backend, new architecture
[09:29] <pitti> having both in parallel would be a very bad idea
[09:29] <seb128> those guys are on crack sometime
[09:29] <pitti> and not everything is ported yet
[09:29] <seb128> ok, so we are sort of blocked for now
[09:29] <pitti> frankly I'm pretty lost on this one, it was excessively badly planned
[09:29] <seb128> agreed
[09:30] <seb128> I will try to get that sorted during GUADEC
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> some builds of vte are failing with this error:
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables "
[09:30] <seb128> at least to have a reliable plan for GNOME 2.28
[09:30] <pitti> it would be nice to get to know the GNOME and David's plans, also for migrating the existing polkit DB
[09:30] <seb128> yeah, some archs are broken apparently
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> what would cause that?
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> ah
[09:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: see #u-devel, seems that the recent binutils wreaks havoc
[09:30] <pitti> it happens a lot
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> some = most
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> thanks pitti
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: when is the desktop summit again?
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, july 3 to 11
[09:40] <seb128> *shrug*
[09:40] <seb128> -discuss is turning to a troll list
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - whats happening on -discuss then?
[09:58] <seb128> ?
[09:58] <seb128> the mailing list?
[09:58] <seb128> lot of useless discussions
[09:58] <seb128> today's one is about gnote
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i saw that one. i notice there is a big mono thread, but i've not read any of that
[10:01] <seb128> I didn't either, I just see the number of message on the topic, what a waste of time discussing the same things
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i tend to skip over discussions like that now. i don't have the time to read them anymore
[10:18] <mdz> I just got a GPU hang on i965 :-/
[10:18] <seb128> karmic or jaunty?
[10:19] <mdz> karmic
[10:19] <mdz> I got dmesg, X backtrace, intel_gpu_dump and will file a bug
[10:20] <seb128> did you get that after being away from the computer for a while?
[10:21] <mdz> seb128, no, i was typing in vi at the time
[10:21] <seb128> ok
[10:21] <mdz> hey, I changed my prefs in xchat to use : instead of , and it seems to have changed back
[10:21] <seb128> my laptop tend to be crashing when i'm away
[10:22] <mdz> seb128, you have i965 as well?
[10:22] <seb128> yes
[10:27] <asac> i disabled "monitor" powersave to work around hangs that happened while my system was idle
[10:30] <seb128> asac, intel965 too?
[10:36] <mdz> filed as bug 388357
[10:42] <soren> pitti: I have the day off, so I think I'm off the hook today :)
[11:09] <lool> pitti: I see you added seahorse-plugins as a Recommends of seahorse to enable seahorse-agent out of the box in 2.23.92-0ubuntu2; it seems this was dropped silently in a later merge; I think we should seed it as a Recommends instead; what do you think?
[11:10] <lool> pitti: Also, my actual goal is to _not_ run seahorse-agent myself, but that's unrelated  :-)
[11:13] <pitti> lool: I'd also like it to not be there by default, for the startup time impact
[11:14] <pitti> AFAIR that was actually semi-deliberate
[11:14] <lool> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/197578/
[11:15] <pitti> lool: right, I remember that; I meant the dropping of it in karmic
[11:15] <lool> pitti: My removal is also driven by the startup time impact of it; it's not pulled in new installs currently
[11:16] <lool> pitti: Ok, as long as you're happy with the situation, it matches my own use case so it's fine
[11:16] <pitti> somehow there must be a better way of using a GPG agent than to start it in xsession.d
[11:16] <lool> Just didn't seean explicit mention, so wanted to double check
[11:16]  * pitti waves with d-bus activation
[11:16] <pitti> lool: I think I am
[11:16]  * crevette_ was thinking the same
[11:16] <lool> pitti: Well I just filed a bug about that to seahorse upstream's BTS
[11:16] <lool> Asking to register the env vars via gnome-session's Setenv
[11:17] <lool> There's already a sehorse thingy started by xdg autostart, but seahorse-agent was a separate helper to set the env vars in the whole Xsession
[11:18] <lool> rickspencer3-afk, didrocks: How about using the quickly mailing-list as the Maintainer:?
[11:18] <lool> (I hope that's ok in terms of email filtering/setup of the ML)
[11:18] <lool> rickspencer3-afk, didrocks: Currently debian/control has no-email-yet@invalid
[11:33] <asac> seb128: yes intel 965 (sorry, you were out when i wanted to reply)
[11:34] <seb128> asac: ok, no problem, I'm restarting my session a lot on new GNOME weeks to try updates ...
[11:34] <seb128> brb on extra time and should be stable for today ;-)
[11:35] <seb128> ok, all good
[11:36] <seb128> the table of versions is almost all green now
[11:38] <seb128> didrocks: there is gedit-plugins in universe to update if you want to do this one
[11:38] <seb128> and bug-buddy
[11:53] <soc> vuntz: *ping*
[11:59] <didrocks> seb128: there now :)
[11:59] <didrocks> seb128: ok, doing it :)
[11:59] <seb128> didrocks: stop slacking! ;-)
[11:59] <didrocks> seb128: slacking for ubuntu = working at my paid work
[12:00] <didrocks> and the contrary is true, too :)
[12:00] <seb128> ;-)
[12:00] <seb128> I'm updating the list there is also vino and vinagre to resync on debian
[12:00] <seb128> they were not listed
[12:01] <seb128> didrocks: but they are your name on merge.ubuntu.com apparently ;-)
[12:01] <seb128> anyway if somebody want to do do those
[12:01] <seb128> and gtk-engines and gnome-menus
[12:01] <seb128> I will do the sponsoring ;-)
[12:02] <didrocks> seb128: there are new merges, I downed my list to 0 previously. I can do gtk-engines as well :)
[12:02] <mdz> argh, it just hung again
[12:06] <seb128> mdz: I get the same dmesg traces when my screen doesn't come back after being away
[12:06] <seb128> it doesn't happen during use though
[12:06] <seb128> mdz: do you use workrave or something which try to lock the screen?
[12:07] <seb128> I'm just doing random guess work there but I only got the issue while being away, ie when the screensaver triger
[12:08] <mdz> seb128, no, nothing
[12:08] <mdz> and both times it has happened while I was actively using it
[12:10] <mdz> seb128, what's the bug number for your idle hang?
[12:12] <seb128> mdz: I didn't open a bug yet, I didn't have an another computer to ssh the laptop the few times I got it and I only have the dmesg trace
[12:12] <seb128> I was waiting to get some extra informations to open one
[12:13] <seb128> mdz: bug #383822 seems similar
[12:13] <mdz> seb128, thanks, I've mentioned that in my bug
[12:20] <mdz> seb128, I've turned off desktop effects for now, to see if it goes away
[12:21] <tkamppeter> pitti, your repo is out of date. it misses cups 1.3.9-17ubuntu3.1
[12:22] <pitti> I guess they did a security update and didn't commit it there
[12:22] <tkamppeter> pitti, I make the new package based on the security update and send you a debdiff.
[12:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: works for me; I'll commit both then
[12:23] <tkamppeter> pitti, did you get my debdiff for Poppler?
[12:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes
[12:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, here I have one idea to improve LP: Instead of rejecting a non-core-dev upload into main completely, one could put it into the moderation queue (like a -proposed update of a non-release-team uploader). This would make sponsored uploads much easier.
[12:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: jaunty bzr updated
[12:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: poppler updated
[12:36] <pitti> erm, uploaded
[12:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
[12:39] <vuntz> soc: pong
[12:41] <soc> ah hi vuntz! seb128 told me to contact you about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585963
[12:41] <soc> what do you think?
[12:42] <soc> my patch adjusts the default values in both the source code and in gconf, i think that should be correct that way (although i wonder why we hardcode these settings in the source)
[12:46] <vuntz> soc: the default values in the source are needed in case the gconf config is broken
[12:47] <vuntz> soc: I don't think setting unhide to 0 is fine
[12:47] <vuntz> soc: it probably happens that the mouse move there by accident for a small bit
[12:50] <vuntz> soc: would 100 be fine?
[12:51] <seb128> vuntz: what do you think about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499148?
[12:53] <vuntz> seb128: hrm
[12:53] <vuntz> seb128: that's a bit broken; if you manually ship alacarte, it will still work
[12:54] <seb128> vuntz: "manually"?
[12:55] <soc> yes
[12:55] <soc> vuntz: 100 looks ok
[12:55] <soc> should i redo the patch?
[12:56] <vuntz> seb128: alt+f2 ?
[12:56] <vuntz> seb128: gnome-terminal ?
[12:56] <vuntz> soc: nah, this'll be fine
[12:57] <vuntz> heh, seb128 always hates me ;-)
[12:57] <rodrigo_> hey vuntz!
[12:58] <rodrigo_> where do I get json-glib package for karmic?
[12:58] <vuntz> rodrigo_: hola my friend
[12:58] <crevette_> salut vuntz
[12:59] <seb128> vuntz: don't you have a key to lock commands run too?
[13:00] <vuntz> seb128: I really doubt that bash looks at this :-)
[13:00] <vuntz> but yeah
[13:00] <vuntz> maybe it's a good first step
[13:00] <seb128> vuntz: well, how do you get a bash if there is no menu item to open a command line and "run a command" is locked?
[13:00] <vuntz> the thing is: when the panel is locked down, you can still configure the applets
[13:00] <vuntz> and the menu could be considered like an applet
[13:00] <vuntz> so...
[13:01] <seb128> well, the sysadmin can uninstall applets that would be an issue
[13:01] <seb128> I don't say it's perfect but I don't see an issue with masking the editor entry when gnome-panel is locked
[13:02] <vuntz> it's more a consistency thing
[13:02] <vuntz> maybe it's right
[13:02] <vuntz> just unsure right now
[13:02] <seb128> ok
[13:02] <seb128> let me know
[13:03] <rodrigo_> seb128: so where do I copy packages for karmic to my PPA from?
[13:03] <seb128> having the option to edit the menu seems an obvious flaw for a locked environment
[13:03] <seb128> rodrigo_: what do you mean?
[13:03] <soc> vuntz: ok, so the changes are accepted?
[13:03] <rodrigo_> seb128: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Copying%20packages
[13:04] <vuntz> soc: I will commit that at some point today, yes
[13:04] <rodrigo_> seb128: or should I just apt-get source?
[13:04] <seb128> rodrigo_: go to your ppa webpage
[13:04] <rodrigo_> ah, hadn't seen the 'Copy packages' link :)
[13:04] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa
[13:04] <seb128> ;-)
[13:05] <soc> vuntz: ok, thanks!
[13:05] <soc> hope that will from gnome into ubuntu in time then ...
[13:05] <soc> will it work for 2.26.2?
[13:05] <rodrigo_> seb128: hmm, that allows me to copy packages from my PPA only, it seems
[13:05] <seb128> rodrigo_: did you manage to get your tomboy update to build?
[13:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS debdiff in your mail.
[13:06] <rodrigo_> seb128: yes, although Laney already did it, so didn't dput it
[13:06] <seb128> ok
[13:06] <rodrigo_> seb128: in fact, I've removed tomboy package from my PPA, now trying to package newest json-glib
[13:06] <seb128> rodrigo_: I'm not sure, try asking on #launchpad maybe, I never copied packages between different ppas so I don't know
[13:06] <rodrigo_> ok
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> anyone mind if i take the gnome-applets update?
[13:09] <didrocks> seb128: gtk-engines is ready :)
[13:09] <seb128> didrocks: good
[13:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson: go for it
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[13:10] <seb128> thank to you for working on the update ;-)
[13:14] <Laney> rodrigo_, seb128: You can upload if you want; I don't know when meebey will sponsor to Debian
[13:14] <rodrigo_> Laney: hmm, you didn't upload it for karmic?
[13:16] <Laney> rodrigo_: No I want to sync it
[13:16] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[13:20] <pedro_> I'm so in love with empathy
[13:21] <pedro_> adium theme support aaaww
[13:21] <pedro_> hi seb128, rodrigo_
[13:21] <rodrigo_> hey pedro_
[13:21] <seb128> pedro_: ola!
[13:21] <rodrigo_> pedro_: I started using it last week, but it doesn't color the tabs when someone talks to me, so back to pidgin for a while
[13:22] <rodrigo_> pedro_: but yeah, it looks good
[13:23] <Laney> I've not used it, but if what I read about the notification icon behaviour is right then I'd be pretty irritated with that
[13:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have updated bug 382379
[13:24] <didrocks> hey pedro_
[13:25] <pedro_> salut didrocks!
[13:25] <seb128> I'm a bit puzzled by their focus, ie they spend lot of efforts adding this geolocalization which is cool but not really something useful in an im client where basic im options are not working
[13:25] <rodrigo_> Laney: that it shows a notification for all messages in all channels/conversations?
[13:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, when you have uploaded cups to -proposed, please add the instructions to the bug and tell that BOTH packages are needed.
[13:27] <rodrigo_> seb128: the no-color-in-tabs sucks indeed a lot, it's very hard to follow what's going on
[13:27] <rodrigo_> seb128: I just had to look over all channels every little bit :(
[13:27] <seb128> I'm not using an IM as IRC client so I can't comment on that
[13:28] <seb128> brb
[13:28] <rodrigo_> lunch time for me, bbl
[13:32] <Laney> rodrigo_: It puts an icon in the notification area when someone new messages you instead of opeing a new window or tab
[13:38] <didrocks> gedit-plugins uploaded
[13:38] <seb128> go go didrocks!
[13:38] <didrocks> :-)
[13:38] <didrocks> (I'm remerging sgt-puzzles)
[13:39] <Laney> that is a really fun package
[13:39] <Laney> <3 tents
[13:40] <Laney> why isn't the diff forwarded?
[13:40] <seb128> which one?
[13:40] <Laney> for sgt-puzzles
[13:40] <seb128> wrong channel?
[13:40] <Laney> dunno, didrocks bought it up here
[13:40] <seb128> not clue about this package, that's not a desktop component
[13:40] <seb128> ok, so dunno
[13:40] <Laney> yeah you can ignore it :P
[13:43] <didrocks> Laney: the diff was forwarded for the .desktop creation (even if Debian doesn't care). The only point upstream disagree is about svg file use.
[13:44] <Laney> i don't see it on the bts
[13:45] <didrocks> Laney: it was on the first patch proposal and when I mailed Ben, he told me he would take the .desktop file but not svg one.
[13:45] <Laney> xpm?
[13:45] <didrocks> Laney: sorry, yeah, xpm
[13:46] <Laney> weird
[13:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: okay
[13:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, I want to say one additional thing: The new CUPS package NEEDS the new Poppler package. As I do not know how it works with SRUs I did not add the appropriate versioned Depends: to the debian/control file of CUPS. Please add it before upload if it is needed and correct to have it there.
[13:59] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, it's needed
[14:00] <crevette> ah, it reminds me I have a bug fix that worth a SRU
[14:03] <pitti> dobey: don't worry if you get a rejection mail about icontool_0.1.0-1ubuntu1; I uploaded the wrong version number first
[14:17] <dobey> pitti: ok. thanks
[14:22] <seb128> didrocks: do you want to do some other merges or updates?
[14:25]  * dobey rushes to get a proper tarball of ubuntuone-client
[14:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - whats happening about bug 349569?
[14:29] <pitti> seb128: nice, lots of green on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html :)
[14:30] <seb128> pitti: indeed ;-)
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> the current situation doesn't need to stop the merge going ahead does it?
[14:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I agree
[14:30] <Laney> seb128: toss some my way if you want
[14:31] <seb128> pitti: and 3 extra lines will turn green after the next publisher run
[14:31] <Laney> not that there's very many
[14:31] <seb128> Laney: vinagre and vino need review, they might be syncable
[14:31] <Laney> ok
[14:31] <seb128> if you want to look at those
[14:31] <seb128> thanks
[14:31] <Laney> i'll get on it tonight
[14:31] <pitti> seb128: is it cron'ed now?
[14:33] <seb128> pitti: no, I'm waiting for mvo to reply to my ping from this morning
[14:33] <seb128> mvo: hello ;-)
[14:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was looking at the recent debian changes to the gnome-session packaging. they've split the package in to gnome-session and gnome-session-bin now, and also nautilus is no longer a required component in the default session, on the basis that it has an autostart file instead and should start like any other application
[14:35] <chrisccoulson> does our nautilus package install an autostart file though, and do we want that change?
[14:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson: I would just not rebase gnome-session on debian they have too many weird changes
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll leave that one for now then
[14:36] <seb128> ok
[14:36] <didrocks> seb128: if they are still some stuff to do, yes, please :)
[14:37] <seb128> didrocks: gnome-menus and bug-buddy
[14:37] <pitti> asac, kenvandine, seb128, bryce, YokoZar: work items ping (http://paste.ubuntu.com/197710/)
[14:37] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I take them :)
[14:37] <seb128> pitti: we said for thursday?
[14:37] <seb128> pitti: ie, it's on my list but I though I was not late yet ;-)
[14:37] <pitti> just a reminder
[14:38] <seb128> ok, it's on my todolist, finish with GNOME updates first
[14:39] <walters> chrisccoulson: nautilus handles media insertion right now, so it's a bad idea to autostart (though really the media handling should be somewhere else)
[14:40] <pitti> Riddell, rickspencer3-afk: http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png collects WIs from https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic now
[14:40] <pitti> workitems.py now can take (multiple) --moin URL arguments
[14:49] <kenvandine> pitti, how do we signify that a blueprint has "no action now"
[14:49] <kenvandine> ?
[14:51] <seb128> kenvandine: how do you have a blueprint with nothing to do?
[14:51] <kenvandine> well it was a discussion and there wasn't any real actions
[14:51] <seb128> kenvandine: could be marking as informational if that's something which require work or tracking
[14:51] <seb128> +not
[14:51] <kenvandine> ah
[14:51] <kenvandine> that is perfect
[14:51] <kenvandine> thx
[14:51] <seb128> you're welcome
[14:52] <Riddell> pitti: yay, thanks
[14:54] <kenvandine> pitti, ok, mine should be all good now
[15:03] <pitti> kenvandine: desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one isn't your's?
[15:03] <pitti> oh, right, SteveA's
[15:03] <kenvandine> nope
[15:05] <kenvandine> pitti, oh, looks like james_w already finished the review for python-configglue and said he would upload
[15:06] <mvo> hello seb128
[15:06] <seb128> mvo: !!!
[15:06] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, it's in NEW
[15:06] <kenvandine> hey mvo
[15:07] <mvo> hey kenvandine
[15:07] <mvo> seb128: so you want to run your code on dapper? I can give it a go
[15:07] <seb128> mvo: well, I want to run it on rookery
[15:07] <seb128> mvo: when I do I get that error
[15:07] <seb128> SystemError: E:Could not open file ./index/karmic/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic_main_source_Sources - open (2 No such file or directory)
[15:07] <seb128> mvo: but the sources.list points correctly to karmic
[15:08] <seb128> and
[15:08] <mvo> give me a sec, I have a dapper chroot that I can use
[15:09] <seb128> mvo: index/karmic/var/lib/apt/lists get dapper indexes apparently
[15:09] <dobey> james_w: is there an MIR for python-oauth, btw?
[15:13] <pitti> seb128: idea for your versions script: add links to Vcs-Bzr:
[15:14] <seb128> pitti: good idea
[15:14] <pitti> seb128: and if you are bored, run bzr log <URL> and check if there are newer commits than the latest upload :)
[15:15] <pitti> it might be useful if we want to replace sponsoring bugs for those
[15:15] <seb128> we don't
[15:15] <pitti> then folks wouldn't need to create them
[15:15] <seb128> we still need a way to claim we work on an update and comment etc
[15:16] <pitti> seb128: ah, we use sponsoring bugs for claims?
[15:16] <seb128> that's what I've been encouraging people to do
[15:16] <seb128> open a bug when they start working on something
[15:17] <seb128> and subscribe the sponsor team when ready
[15:17] <pitti> I see
[15:17] <pitti> do we have a way now to automatically link those bugs to versions.html?
[15:17] <seb128> it's not perfect but i've no good solution to that yet
[15:17] <seb128> the page add bugs tagged "desktop-upgrade" in the comments column
[15:18] <seb128> that's rather a proof of concept that a stable way though
[15:18] <seb128> I'm still pondering how to do that in an efficient way
[15:18] <seb128> and not too racy
[15:18] <pitti> seb128: you look for all open bugs tagged desktop-upgrade?
[15:18] <pitti> seems simple enough
[15:19] <seb128> I look for the desktop-upgrade bugs for each component yes
[15:19] <seb128> this code is very non optimal, I'm parsing the html
[15:19] <seb128> I need to port that to launchpadlib
[15:20] <seb128> reading "https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade" is a very easy way to look for those bugs, but it's hackish ;-)
[15:20] <pitti> seb128: why not just parse the numbers and packages from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade ?
[15:20] <pitti> seb128: it's a single call
[15:20] <pitti> it's still a hack, but at least its fast
[15:20] <seb128> I was pondering that but then I need to parse the component
[15:21] <seb128> should be easy enough
[15:21] <pitti> seb128: don't you already have that in your downloaded Sources.gz?
[15:21] <pitti> in p-apt?
[15:21] <seb128> and it would be much faster to do one query than one for each componehnt
[15:21] <seb128> have what?
[15:21] <pitti> seb128: the component
[15:22] <seb128> well not the one corresponding to bug numbers
[15:22] <seb128> but that's easy parsing on the page
[15:22] <seb128> I will do that
[15:22] <pitti> no, but bug page gives you the bug # and packages
[15:22] <pitti> and p-apt gives you package -> component
[15:23] <seb128> right
[15:23] <seb128> that should be easy
[15:23] <seb128> but I'm still not so sure about using bugs to claim tasks
[15:24] <pitti> seb128: if we write a small script to create one, it should be easy?
[15:24] <seb128> that works for people who need sponsoring but not so much for people who do work and upload
[15:24] <seb128> well, do we want to open bugs for each upload we do?
[15:24] <pitti> ah, I see what you mean
[15:25] <seb128> the other way is to say that we dispatch task
[15:25] <seb128> ie "desktop-bug-tool <component> need-upgrade"
[15:25] <pitti> seb128: what about handling it like merges, with TIL being the default assignee?
[15:25] <seb128> a small tool which create tasks
[15:25] <seb128> and we tell contributors to work only on open bugs
[15:26] <didrocks> seb128: gnome-menus done. Off for now. I will work on bug-buddy then :)
[15:26] <seb128> didrocks: ok, thanks
[15:27] <seb128> pitti: well, some packages have regular updater and some are in a pool of who comes faster do the update
[15:27] <seb128> I think we could have this small tool to quickly open bugs
[15:27] <pitti> seb128: sounds good as well
[15:27] <seb128> so we can quickly open bugs for packages in the pool
[15:28] <seb128> since we usually know which ones those are
[15:28] <pitti> seb128: this would look in versions.html which ones need updating and don't have a bug open yet, and create new ones for the missing ones?
[15:28] <pitti> that wouldn't need any arguments then
[15:28] <seb128> well we don't want to open bugs for everybody
[15:28] <seb128> ie I usually update glib and gtk, I know pango comes from debian, etc
[15:29] <seb128> but I know anybody can do gedit, gconf-editor, etc
[15:29] <seb128> so I would say "upgrade-tasks gconf-editor gedit"
[15:29] <seb128> and it would open bugs for those
[15:29] <pitti> so if that's a know list, write it down somewhere and do versions.html | filter needs update | filter "anyone list" | filter already existing bugs
[15:29] <seb128> which make the "feel free to pick work there" list
[15:30] <mvo> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/197746
[15:30] <seb128> mvo: danke!
[15:30] <pitti> seb128: then you just need to maintain the list of those "free game" packages in a wiki, and all the parsing and bug opening can be in cron
[15:30] <mvo> seb128: you will have to add some dirs in index/debian/
[15:30] <seb128> mvo: is that working by luck in karmic or a bug in dapper?
[15:30] <mvo> manually
[15:30] <seb128> mvo: I did that already
[15:30] <seb128> thanks
[15:30] <mvo> seb128: dapper is ancient ;)
[15:31] <mvo> its much less complete than the karmic version
[15:31] <seb128> yeah, don't tell me about dapper being ancient ;-)
[15:32] <Ampelbein> seb128: i pushed a change to your versions-script to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions. I made it to use python-launchpadbugs to process the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade.
[15:32] <pitti> speaking of dapper, shouldn't the desktop part go EOL just about now?
[15:32] <seb128> Ampelbein: hi, thanks
[15:32] <Ampelbein> seb128: i tried using python-launchpadlib but had no luck so far.
[15:33] <seb128> ok
[15:34] <pitti> Ampelbein: please don't use p-lp-bugs; it's broken and unmaintained
[15:35] <Ampelbein> pitti: ok. I used it because it seemed easier to me than py-lp-lib. ;-)
[15:40] <seb128> grr
[15:40] <seb128> IOError: Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/../project/experimental/Release.gpg Could not connect to ftp.debian.org:21 (130.89.149.226). - connect (111 Connection refused)
[15:40] <dobey> hrmm
[15:43] <dobey> pitti, seb128: do you know if it's possible to use pycentral with autotools?
[15:43] <seb128> no clue
[15:45] <pitti> dobey: I don't think so
[15:45] <pitti> mixing two build system is very confusing
[15:50] <dobey> yes, i know it is :)
[15:59] <asac> rickspencer3: dialing in now
[15:59] <rickspencer3> asac: I'll set up the bridge
[16:26] <huats> hello everyone
[16:26] <seb128> lut huats!
[16:26] <huats> how are you seb128 ?
[16:26] <huats> still nothing to do ?
[16:26] <seb128> good:
[16:26] <seb128> !
[16:26] <seb128> you?
[16:26] <huats> good too
[16:26] <huats> :)
[16:26] <seb128> no, people are faster than you nowadays
[16:27] <huats> ok
[16:27] <huats> :)
[16:27] <seb128> huats: see
[16:27] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
[16:27] <huats> great then
[16:27] <huats> cool :)
[16:27] <huats> the comments are working ?
[16:27] <seb128> sort of, they are in the source file so there is no easy way to add those right now
[16:28] <huats> ok
[16:29] <huats> it will be great to have that kind of table
[16:29] <seb128> indeed ;-)
[16:30] <huats> right now the main lack is the lack of information of someone's working on something
[16:31] <huats> to know if it worth that I do the bug-buddy stuff
[16:31] <huats> :)
[16:32] <huats> or not (btw I should do it seb128 right that is what we agreed at the UDS IIRC)
[16:32] <seb128> didrocks said he would do it later
[16:32] <seb128> talk to him ;-)
[16:32] <huats> hehe
[16:32] <huats> :)
[16:32] <huats> I will
[16:32] <huats> he can let me do some :)
[16:33] <huats> didrocks: once you are around talk to me :)
[16:33] <seb128> you can look at ekiga if you want
[16:43] <Laney> that versions.html could get a MoM style status field
[17:03] <rickspencer3> seb128: asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bug-workflow
[17:04] <rickspencer3> pitti asked you guys for a quick review before he ok'd the spec
[17:04] <rickspencer3> when you get a chance?
[17:04] <rickspencer3> thanks
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3: right, should I comment on the whiteboard?
[17:21] <Ampelbein> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions now uses python-launchpadlib to get the list of bugs tagged desktop-upgrade.
[17:22] <seb128> thanks
[17:22] <Ampelbein> (at least I hope it does so) ;-)
[17:22] <rickspencer3> seb128: sure, whatever is easy
[17:22] <Ampelbein> seb128: unfortunately I can't test it now, home-DSL got broken and i'm stuck with mobile internet again, so no big downloads for me
[17:23] <seb128> rickspencer3: ok, I'm going for sport soon but I will look at that later today or tomorrow morning
[17:23] <seb128> Ampelbein: I will give it a try later, from a quick look it seems correct
[17:23] <asac> same here. tomorrow is mostly dedicated to spec work :/
[17:26] <Ampelbein> seb128: please use rev 7 for review, revision 6 had some wrongly pasted lines in it.
[17:26] <seb128> ok
[17:42] <didrocks> huats: yes? :)
[17:44] <huats> didrocks: rarding bug-buddy do you take care of it, or do I ?
[17:44] <huats> regarding I mean
[17:44] <didrocks> huats: have you ever updated it? :)
[17:45] <huats> nope but I read it :)
[17:45] <didrocks> huats: because it's not straightforward, you have to dsfg it :)
[17:45] <huats> yeah i know
[17:46] <huats> I have seen that
[17:47] <didrocks> huats: if you feel you have the time instead of working on *framakey* *ubuntu-fr* *remix* where you should do some test, do it :p
[17:47] <huats> I have started to do it right after the UDS
[17:47] <huats> I haven't received my key yet...
[17:47] <huats> so...
[17:47] <didrocks> that's easy :p
[17:47] <didrocks> ok, it will give me more time to fix final stuff there :)
[17:48] <huats> ok so I take care of bugbuddy if you are ok
[17:48] <huats> I might have some time tomorrow
[17:49] <huats> (and tonight)
[17:49] <huats> I need to leave know
[17:49] <huats> now...
[17:49] <huats> TTYL
[18:04] <mdz> bryce, awake?
[18:04] <bryce> mdz: yep
[18:05] <mdz> bryce, good morning
[18:05] <bryce> heya
[18:05] <mdz> bryce, when you get a chance, you might want to have a look at bug 388357.  I've since seen two other bugs which have similar symptoms (the dmesg backtrace), and seb128 says it's the same with the hang he sees when his system is idle
[18:07] <mdz> I'm not sure whether they all have the same root cause, but I got a GPU dump for mine at least
[18:10] <pitti> for bryce, /me alters burndown.py to do
[18:10] <pitti> +        if state == 'completed':
[18:10] <pitti> +            state = 'done'
[18:10] <mdz> bryce, also, in bug 388467, I attached a script I wrote to help collect debug information from these hangs.  some of the code might be useful elsewhere, e.g. filing a bug on the appropriate driver package based on which one the X server is using
[18:11] <bryce> pitti: whoops, I'll use 'done'.  For some reason I recalled that it used completed
[18:11] <pitti> bryce: it's fine, I just updated the script :)
[18:12] <bryce> mdz, thanks this report has a ton of good detail.  Still reading through it but I think we can get upstream's attention on it.
[18:12] <pitti> bryce: I have a consistency check in workitems.py which spews cron mail at me when a state is unknown
[18:12] <bryce> pitti: okie
[18:13] <pitti> bryce: still doesn't work, though, hmm
[18:13] <mdz> pitti, the script in 388467 is a good example of one where we want to collect the debug info at the time of the problem, rather than when the user decides to submit the problem report
[18:14] <pitti> right
[18:14] <mdz> and in this case, it also has to be collected as root :-/
[18:19] <pitti> mdz: that would implicitly happen then
[18:26] <bryce> mdz: interesting; I notice the 3 bugs with similar backtraces all occur in relation to (presumably) some sort of fullscreen activity - period of time after doing video playback, return from blanked screen after idle, and escaping from a screensaver
[18:27] <bryce> mdz: could be coincidental, however we had a crash bug relating to full screen stuff when we first uploaded the current versions.  mayhaps this is related to that.
[18:27] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:27] <bryce> night pitti!
[18:34] <mdz> bryce, well spotted
[18:34] <bryce> upstreamed - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22336
[18:34] <bryce> will work on it some more after breakfast
[18:35] <bryce> mdz: I'm betting there's a kernel patch already for this one.  I checked the intel git log but didn't see anything obvious.
[18:37] <mdz> bryce, thanks
[18:37] <mdz> I'm off for the evening, back tomorrow
[18:40] <kenvandine> pitti, how are we doing on CD size?
[18:45] <kenvandine> oh... i missed pitti...
[18:49] <crevette> !:
[20:25] <Ampelbein> FYI: I updated seb128 to use python-launchpadlib and added a comment-system. Test available at http://217.11.53.243/new/versions.psp, code at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions
[20:25] <Ampelbein> erm
[20:25] <Ampelbein> i did not update seb128, i updated his script.
[20:25] <pochu> heh
[20:26]  * pochu thinks seb128 is a script too
[20:26] <pochu>  /usr/bin/seb128 --update-gnome
[20:26] <Ampelbein> lol
[21:28] <crevette> pochu, don't forget /usr/bin/seb128 --triage-bugs
[21:29] <pochu> crevette: that's handled by alternatives, and pedro_ is also registered ;)
[21:29]  * pochu waves at pedro_ and rodrigo_ :)
[21:30] <pochu> why do the spanish people end their nick with _ ?
[21:30] <pedro_> lol
[21:31] <pedro_> pochu_: because we're cool ? ;-)
[21:32] <pochu_> I'm cool now too :)
[21:42] <crevette> pedro_, just replied to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/342401
[21:43] <crevette> does status "incomplete" means the bug is closed?
[21:43] <pedro_> crevette: ok thanks. Nope it just like the NEEDINFO at bugzilla
[21:44] <crevette> okay, would you like I set it as INVALID ?
[21:44] <pedro_> crevette: sure, Invalid is ok
[21:47] <Ampelbein> pedro_, crevette: that bug was fixed by fixing bug 352653
[21:48] <Ampelbein> at least i think thats the one.
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> anyone know what 02_disable_G_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES.patch is for in gnome-terminal? there's no mention of it in the changelog, no bug report entry and no comments in the patch
[21:51] <crevette> chrisccoulson, I believe it disables the build with the flag G_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES, but I didn't read it :)
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> crevette - thanks. i sort of guessed that, but i was wondering why that is necessary, and what problem is tries to solve
[21:52] <crevette> chrisccoulson, there is a policy to replace multiple includes from the same lib  with only the "top" include like <gtk/gtk.h>
[21:52] <Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: gtk+ code cleanup i think. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/CleanupGTKIncludes
[21:52] <crevette> ah sorry
[21:53] <crevette> perhaps it wouldn't copmile with single include?
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> thanks, that makes sense now:)
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> i'll try it without the patch and see if it builds
[21:53] <Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: according to the link i posted it should build fine.
[21:54]  * crevette tries to package obexd
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[21:59] <crevette> is there a tool that ease the check of various licences used in a tarball
[22:31] <dobey> crevette: sed, awk, perl, tar, gzip, bzip2? :)
[22:36] <crevette> :)
[22:37] <Laney> crevette: licensecheck
[22:38] <Laney> but it doesn't get it right, so verify it manually too
[22:38] <crevette> the names seems obvious :)
[22:38] <crevette> arf, I have it installed ...
[22:45] <crevette> Laney, and does it exist somethink like copyrightcheck ?
[22:45] <crevette> :
[22:45] <crevette> :)
[22:45] <pochu_> unfortunately not
[22:46] <pochu_> I wish we didn't have to list copyright holders in debian/copyright
[22:46] <pochu_> crevette: I usually do grep -i -R copyright * | sort | some magic
[22:46] <pochu_> then manually check them
[22:46] <Laney> but since we d have to list them, it's good that there's no copyrightcheck
[22:46] <Laney> because it would get it wrong too much
[22:47] <pochu_> do you think so?
[22:47] <pochu_> just grepping for copyright or something, then packing it as appropriate would do the right thing I think
[22:47] <crevette> what should I do when some years are different for the same person?
[22:47] <Laney> newlines and such
[22:47] <pochu_> crevette: I usually pack them in one line
[22:47] <Laney> just compress them as you can
[22:47] <pochu_> crevette: like "Copyright (C) 200X - 200Y Foo Bar"
[22:48] <Laney> start-end if they're continuous
[22:52] <dobey> what the heck do these icons in the bluetooth prefs dialog even mean?!
[22:53] <chrisccoulson> dobey - no idea. i've always wondered that too
[22:54] <crevette> dobey, know bug
[22:54] <crevette> will be resolved with gnome-bluetooth
[22:54] <crevette> I'd advice you to install that
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> wow, my desktop is going amazingly slow right now
[22:56] <dobey> crevette: are there packages for jaunty?
[22:56] <crevette> ah, humm not officially sorry
[22:56] <dobey> crevette: and will it magically make connecting to the devices i'm having trouble with now, work correctly?
[22:58] <crevette> ah, this is a interesting question. connection problems could come from various component, and I must admit I don't really understand bluetooth thingy enough to give an insightful answer
[22:58] <crevette> however lastest version is really really better
[22:58] <crevette> with one click I can connect to my audio gateway and stream sound over there
[22:59] <crevette> I have a 2 month old version for jaunty
[22:59] <crevette> not sure if it works fine
[23:00] <dobey> well i just got this shiny new bluetooth keyboard for my shiny new laptop
[23:00] <crevette> latest version release today needs obexd which I'm trying to package
[23:00] <dobey> and i can't get it to maintain a connection
[23:01] <crevette> dobey, when does the connection fails?
[23:01] <crevette> -s
[23:01] <crevette> ho it's late
[23:02] <dobey> crevette: it shows up as connected for like a second in the prefs dialog, and then the connected icon drops
[23:02] <dobey> crevette: but there is an ominous key icon, which i have no idea what the meaning is
[23:03] <crevette> key means trusted
[23:03] <crevette> IIRC
[23:06] <dobey> so not helpful
[23:06] <dobey> i mean, if i paired a device, i probably trust it :)
[23:09] <dobey> this is crazy :(
[23:20] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[23:21] <pochu> buenos dias
[23:22] <rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
[23:23] <rickspencer3> thanks for setting up Google Calendar
[23:41] <Laney> How firm is the "Never introduce a patch system to a Debian package" rule?
[23:42] <Laney> i.e. if I'm doing an autoreconf patch
[23:48] <Corey> Will Adobe and Ubuntu be discussing terms to get all Adobe products to work on Ubuntu has like the Mac and Windows ???
[23:49] <Ampelbein> Laney: Are there any other ubuntu-changes?
[23:50] <Laney> yes
[23:50] <Laney> hence the autoreconf patch
[23:50] <Laney> I have been told in no uncertain terms to never introduce a patch system before, but that is what we have done here
[23:50] <Ampelbein> Laney: how are those other changes made? directly in the diff.gz?
[23:50] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: np, now I just have to update this morning and try evolution again.
[23:50] <Laney> no, as a patch
[23:51] <Ampelbein> Laney: is it likely those changes are applied in debian? what package is it?
[23:51] <Laney> it's a patch for lp integration, so no
[23:52] <chrisccoulson> Laney - we use quilt in transmission even though debian doesn't use a patch system for that (at least, they never used to)
[23:52] <chrisccoulson> noone complained about that
[23:52] <Ampelbein> in that case, I guess it's ok to use a patch system. lpi is pretty invasive to be handled inline.
[23:52] <Laney> nah the patches aren't that big
[23:53] <Laney> I don't like the rule myself, but it exists
[23:56] <Ampelbein> Laney: where is this rule being written down? I have not found it on the wiki.
[23:57] <Laney> no idea
[23:58] <Laney> like I said, I don't care for it so if the rest of you don't
[23:58] <Laney> let's all carry on our days like I never mentioned it
[23:58]  * Laney whistles
[23:58] <Ampelbein> Laney: and btw, if it's a desktop-package and you work on an upgrade, you should use "desktop-upgrade" as a tag from now on.
[23:58] <Corey> Will Adobe and Ubuntu be discussing terms to get all Adobe products to work on Ubuntu has like the Mac and Windows ???
[23:58] <Laney> Ampelbein: where's this written?
[23:59] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: here's my daily gtk harassment
[23:59] <rickspencer3> what the heck is an actiongroup *for*?
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> Corey - no need to ask the same question twice. If noone answered, then nobody knows the answer to your question
[23:59] <Ampelbein> Laney: seb128 proposed it in the channel here. he has a script running at http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html to automatically display the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade next to the package
[23:59] <Laney> i was using that page, but I didn't know that
[23:59]  * Laney tags