[00:00] <MontelEdwards> Bodsda: i didnt know their was a mailing list.
[00:00] <MontelEdwards> where is the signup link?
[00:00] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: yes there is, but lets keep that chatter to #ubuntnu-beginners please
[00:00] <MontelEdwards> Bodsda: agreed.
[00:01] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in #kubuntu-devel
[00:03] <MontelEdwards> Are we go for the meeting now?
[00:04] <Rocket2DMn> I think we're waiting for bodhizazen
[00:06] <MontelEdwards> Rocket2DMn: oh ok
[00:09] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler, let's get started
[00:10] <Ash_R> +1 Rocket2DMn
[00:10] <nhandler> #startmeeting
[00:10] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:10. The chair is nhandler.
[00:10] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:10] <nhandler> Ok, time for the Ubuntu Beginners Team meeting
[00:10] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams
[00:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams
[00:11] <nhandler> Discussion has already taken place on the mailing list about this topic, and it appears that a good portion of the team has no objections to this
[00:11] <bodhizazen> :)
[00:11] <jamesrfla> Welcome bodhizazen
[00:11] <nhandler> Hey bodhizazen, feel free to take over, I'll just send the MootBot commands :)
[00:12] <bodhizazen> do we have an agenda ?
[00:12] <Bodsda> o/ I have no objections
[00:12] <nhandler> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:12] <jamesrfla> bodhizazen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:12] <Bodsda> bodhizazen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings/#General%20Agenda%20Items%20and%20Proposals
[00:12] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:13] <bodhizazen> got it :)
[00:13] <bodhizazen> I think it is a good idea nhandler
[00:13] <nhandler> To summarize the agenda item, by having the council as an admin, they would be able to add/remove members as well as modify various details about the team. They would not take over running the teams, this would be left to the Focus Group Leaders
[00:14] <Rocket2DMn> Does this apply to the umbrella team as well?
[00:14] <bodhizazen> I also feel we should consolidate LP wiki pages and mailing lists where at all possible
[00:15] <nhandler> bodhizazen: All mailing lists aside from the main team one and the council one should have been disabled
[00:15] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: This would apply to all teams except ~ubuntu-beginners-council
[00:15] <bodhizazen> IMO it is important to be able to administrate these LP teams if an administrator goes AWOL (which has not happened recently, but is a problem when it occurs).
[00:15] <Rocket2DMn> do we know if the other mailing lists have been disabled?
[00:15] <Bodsda> the original ufbt mailing list no longer works
[00:16] <Rocket2DMn> thats b/c the team name changed
[00:16] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Yes. Unless they have been manually recreated, they were all deleted when the teams were renamed
[00:16] <Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks nhandler
[00:16] <bodhizazen> sweet
[00:16] <nhandler> Think we can vote on this issue?
[00:16] <bodhizazen> I do not feel our mailing list is so active that we really need more then one list at this tiem
[00:16] <bodhizazen> +1vote :)
[00:17] <Rocket2DMn> agreed bodhizazen , we discussed that a few months ago
[00:17] <Bodsda> +1
[00:17] <nhandler> [VOTE] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams.
[00:17] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams..
[00:17] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:17] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:17] <nhandler> +1
[00:17] <bodhizazen> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhizazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:17] <swoody> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:17] <Ash_R> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:17] <Bodsda> +1
[00:17] <jgoguen> bodhizazen: +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:17] <MontelEdwards> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from MontelEdwards. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:17] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:17] <Snova> +1
[00:17] <jgoguen> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:17] <drs305> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:17] <bgs100> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from bgs100. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
[00:18] <nhandler> Any more votes?
[00:18] <ibuclaw> +1
[00:18] <st33med> +1
[00:18] <MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12
[00:18] <MootBot> +1 received from st33med. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13
[00:18] <bodhizazen> lol
[00:18] <MontelEdwards> Think that was it, lol
[00:18] <nhandler> #endvote
[00:18] <st33med> I just came in lol
[00:19] <st33med> I didn't know what I voted on so... I SCREWED THE VOTES, RECOUNT!
[00:19] <st33med> XD
[00:19] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:19] <MootBot> Final result is 13 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 13
[00:19] <Vantrax> lol
[00:19] <nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to contact LP team owners to get necessary permission changes made
[00:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to contact LP team owners to get necessary permission changes made
[00:20] <bodhizazen> thank you nhandler
[00:20] <nhandler> [AGREED] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams.
[00:20] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams.
[00:20]  * cprofitt apologizes for being late
[00:20] <nhandler> [TOPIC]  	  Add a logo to the beginners team social group
[00:20] <MootBot> New Topic:   	  Add a logo to the beginners team social group
[00:20] <Vantrax> we have a social group?
[00:20] <Ash_R> On ubuntu forums the social group Beginner Team Members  [ http://ubuntuforums.org/group.php?groupid=79 ] lacks a logo.  It has the default question mark.   Should it not be changed to something else,  such as the logo used on launchpad ( https://launchpadlibrarian.net/15997130/branding.png ) ?   Another idea,  could be to do a similar logo to that of the unanswered posts team ( http://ubuntuforums.org/image.php?groupid=52&dateline=1229
[00:20] <Ash_R> 849008 ) .  If any action is to be taken I think only bodhi can change the logo as he created the social group.
[00:21] <Ash_R> any thoughts?
[00:21] <bodhizazen> I am "OK" with that, but to be honest was consiering disbanding the social group as we all hang on IRC
[00:21] <MontelEdwards> bodhizazen: all hang?
[00:21] <MontelEdwards> what do you mean?
[00:21] <bodhizazen> LOL
[00:22] <Bodsda> if we keep the social group, which i dont think brings anything to the team, then we should get a logo, but I have no issues with disbanding it
[00:22] <bodhizazen> hang-out, ie are active on IRC
[00:22] <nhandler> Are there any reasons to have the social group?
[00:22] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: we are an IRC orientated team
[00:22] <cprofitt> bodhizazen, I would not disband
[00:22] <Bodsda> who work heavily on the forums
[00:22] <nhandler> cprofitt: Why not?
[00:22] <cprofitt> it still serves as an ad that we exist
[00:22] <bodhizazen> When we started the team, social groups were the rage
[00:22] <nhandler> Don't we have a moderated user group on the forums already?
[00:23] <Ash_R> nhandler,  wasn't it a place to introduce ourselves not only to the team but also to the forum based community
[00:23] <bodhizazen> now we have irc and mailing lists and what noe
[00:23] <bodhizazen> *not*
[00:23] <MontelEdwards> woah woah woah, do you mean take away the team IRC?
[00:23] <Ash_R> some may bot be on irc
[00:23] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: no
[00:23] <Ash_R> *not
[00:23] <cprofitt> I do not see a reason to have more than one social group, but keeping one would still serve a purpose
[00:23] <cprofitt> and does no harm
[00:23] <MontelEdwards> Bodsda: then what?
[00:23] <bodhizazen> Well, the problem was ...
[00:23] <nhandler> Ash_R: If they have any intention of joining the team, they will need to get on IRC
[00:23] <bodhizazen> we got a ton of join requests from non-members
[00:24] <bodhizazen> so ...
[00:24] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: the forums have social groups, just a little team page thingy.. we have one but hardly use it
[00:24] <bodhizazen> we made 2 social groups
[00:24] <bodhizazen> one moderated, members only
[00:24] <bodhizazen> the other unmoderated
[00:24] <bodhizazen> over time it seems the social groups have been used less and less
[00:25] <bodhizazen> if we keep it, I am OK with adding an icon
[00:25] <MontelEdwards> Oh forget that then
[00:25] <cprofitt> if it was causing some damage I could see getting rid of it...
[00:25] <cprofitt> but it really does no harm...
[00:25] <Bodsda> it does no harm keeping it
[00:25] <nhandler> Should we vote on this?
[00:25] <swoody> I'm in favor of keeping, and adding an icon
[00:25] <cprofitt> and people looking at members profiles will see it and see that a group exists
[00:25] <Ash_R> its a subtle minor change :)
[00:25] <nhandler> [VOTE] Delete the UBT Social Group on the Forums?
[00:25] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Delete the UBT Social Group on the Forums?.
[00:25] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:25] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:25] <jamesrfla> +1 nhandler
[00:25] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:26] <jamesrfla> oh
[00:26] <cprofitt> -1
[00:26] <Bodsda> -1
[00:26] <MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:26] <MootBot> -1 received from Bodsda. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[00:26] <nhandler> +0
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[00:26] <Ash_R> -1
[00:26] <MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 1 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:26] <jamesrfla> -1
[00:26] <drs305> +1
[00:26] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[00:26] <bodhizazen> 0
[00:26] <swoody> -1
[00:26] <ibuclaw> 0
[00:26] <MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 2 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:26] <bodhizazen> +0
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhizazen. 2 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:26] <Rocket2DMn> +0
[00:26] <jamesrfla> um I want to change mine to -1
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 4 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:26] <duanedesign> -1
[00:26] <MootBot> -1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:26] <ibuclaw> +0
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 2 for, 5 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:26] <bgs100> +0
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from bgs100. 2 for, 5 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:26] <nhandler> jamesrfla: Just vote again
[00:26] <Joeb454> 0
[00:26] <Joeb454> +0
[00:26] <MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 2 for, 5 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:26] <jamesrfla> it said I already votted
[00:27] <Bodsda> jamesrfla: dont worry, its minus anyway
[00:27] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:27] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 5 against. 6 abstained. Total: -3
[00:27] <MontelEdwards> crap
[00:27] <MontelEdwards> i forgot to vote
[00:27] <ibuclaw> MontelEdwards, ideally, only members should vote
[00:27] <nhandler> [VOTE] Add icon from Launchpad to Social Group
[00:27] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Add icon from Launchpad to Social Group.
[00:27] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:27] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:27] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:27] <Joeb454> +1
[00:27] <ibuclaw> +0
[00:27] <MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:27] <nhandler> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:27] <Bodsda> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:27] <Ash_R> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:27] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:27] <MontelEdwards> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from MontelEdwards. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:27] <swoody> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:28] <drs305> +1
[00:28] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 9 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:28] <bodhizazen> +1
[00:28] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhizazen. 10 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:28] <cprofitt> +0
[00:28] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 10 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:28] <duanedesign> -1
[00:28] <MootBot> -1 received from duanedesign. 10 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:28] <bodhizazen> which icon do we want ?
[00:28] <nhandler> bodhizazen: The icon on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners
[00:28] <Snova> +1
[00:28] <MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 11 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:29] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:29] <MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10
[00:29] <Ash_R> bodhizazen, perhaps we should leave it open for submissions
[00:29] <Ash_R> or maybe not as it would be good for unity of the logos on the forum and launchpad
[00:29] <nhandler> [AGREED] Add icon from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners to Social Group
[00:29] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Add icon from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners to Social Group
[00:30] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Discuss purpose of the council
[00:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss purpose of the council
[00:30] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Jedi%20Council
[00:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Jedi%20Council
[00:30] <nhandler> The purpose of the council is briefly discussed above
[00:30] <nhandler> Sadly, paultag is not present
[00:31] <nhandler> Based on the discussion on the mailing list, it appears that several members want the council to take a more active role in the running of the team
[00:31] <Bodsda> note: agenda item added (sorry for last minute addition)
[00:31] <nhandler> Before doing this, I would like to decide on a clear purpose and guidelines for the council
[00:31] <duanedesign> what is not being done?
[00:32] <bodhizazen> icon has been changed ;)
[00:32] <Bodsda> yay :)
[00:32] <nhandler> [IDEA] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting
[00:32] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting
[00:32] <nhandler> This is what the motu-release team did during the Jaunty cycle
[00:33] <cprofitt> it may take more than one meeting to iron out a charter
[00:33] <bodhizazen> I think I missed the discussion nhandler =)
[00:33] <cprofitt> but the idea is sound...
[00:33] <Rocket2DMn> Just FYI, I won't be here for the next meeting.   I'm leaving Friday for vacation
[00:33] <cprofitt> I also did not catch this discussion on the mailing list...
[00:33] <bodhizazen> what is it we want the council to do ?
[00:33] <Rocket2DMn> I won't be able to participate in such a discussion at this time
[00:33] <cprofitt> I will have to make sure I am on it...
[00:33] <bodhizazen> in general
[00:33] <cprofitt> Rocket2DMn, why?
[00:33] <ibuclaw> nhandler, afaik, the "Knights" are the proactive role members in general who try to keep the peace
[00:34] <Rocket2DMn> cprofitt, i can right now (this evening), but ill be gone for a few weeks starting on Friday, and I'm very busy up til then.
[00:34] <nhandler> ibuclaw: I agree. I expressed my opinion on the issue on the list
[00:34] <ibuclaw> the "Council" make decisions when things escalate beyond what the "Knights" can handle (ie: temp bannings, etc,etc)
[00:34] <Rocket2DMn> so i wont be able to help much with putting together a proposal
[00:34] <cprofitt> k
[00:35] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Ok, we will be sure to catch you up when you return
[00:35] <nhandler> [VOTE] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting
[00:35] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting.
[00:35] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:35] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:35] <Rocket2DMn> thats fine nhandler
[00:35] <Rocket2DMn> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <ibuclaw> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <Bodsda> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Bodsda. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <jamesrfla> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from jamesrfla. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <Ash_R> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Ash_R. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <bodhizazen> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhizazen. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <nhandler> I will abstain since I am on the council
[00:35] <nhandler> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <bodhizazen> lol
[00:35] <cprofitt> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:35] <duanedesign> +1
[00:35] <swoody> +1
[00:35] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:35] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 2 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:35] <Joeb454> +0
[00:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 2 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:36] <Rocket2DMn> Team members need to vote plesae
[00:36] <cprofitt> I am indifferent to this... but we have been running fairly well w/o such a charter
[00:36] <bodhizazen> nhandler: or someone please forward the email to me, I can not find the discussion in my inbox
[00:36] <drs305> +0
[00:36] <MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 2 for, 0 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:36] <Joeb454> I only abstained because I'm currently on the council, and we seem to be doing OK as is
[00:36] <cprofitt> nhandler, please forward it to me as well
[00:36] <cprofitt> unless the discussion was all today
[00:36] <nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to forward email to entire council
[00:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to forward email to entire council
[00:36] <bodhizazen> thank you :)
[00:37]  * cprofitt nods
[00:37] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:37] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 10 abstained. Total: 2
[00:37] <nhandler> [AGREED] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting
[00:37] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting
[00:37] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[00:37]  * bodhizazen would like to suggest there are always things to do if people would like "assignments" , lol
[00:37] <duanedesign> I think the main proponent of the council taking on a more active role was ptag
[00:37] <nhandler> [ACTION] Council to schedule meeting to start work on a charter
[00:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Council to schedule meeting to start work on a charter
[00:37] <Rocket2DMn> Did you want to include paultag directly in creating that charter?
[00:37] <nhandler> Yes Rocket2DMn ?
[00:38] <jamesrfla> bodhizazen: is there a wiki on that?
[00:38] <cprofitt> woah...
[00:38] <cprofitt> that was 10 abstentions... I do not think the measure passed
[00:38] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I have no objections to including him
[00:38] <bodhizazen> no jamesrfla  , we had a discussion  on a task list at one point ...
[00:38] <MontelEdwards> cprofitt: is right
[00:39] <nhandler> cprofitt: A vote of +0 is non-blocking on the issue
[00:39] <cprofitt> nhandler, ?
[00:39] <cprofitt> We had less than 50% of the members vote yes
[00:39] <nhandler> cprofitt: Only a vote of -1 is considered "blocking" on an issue. +0 does not block.
[00:39] <swoody> cprofitt:  but nobody voted to stop it :)
[00:39] <cprofitt> if we are going to have a +1 and 20 +0s = a yes vote I will stop voting +0
[00:39] <duanedesign> even if a charted is a reiteration of already established procedure, at least it was addressed
[00:40] <MontelEdwards> MootBot: should take off +0 because its pointless
[00:40] <cprofitt> do we have rules for votes...
[00:40] <bodhizazen> abstentions do not prevent a measure from passing, you need to -1
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign makes a good point
[00:40] <cprofitt> please change my vote to a -1 then
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> we can just reiterate what we already do
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> (and dont do)
[00:40] <nhandler> cprofitt: No, we have not created clear guidelines for the votes
[00:40] <Hellow> What if the entire team votes +0?
[00:40] <cprofitt> as the voting does not follow any rules I am familiar with
[00:40] <Hellow> er, 0
[00:40] <MontelEdwards> Good question habtool
[00:40] <MontelEdwards> ah
[00:40] <MontelEdwards> Hellow:
[00:40] <nhandler> cprofitt: We have been using the standard voting procedure used by most other teams in the community
[00:40] <bodhizazen> we have, however, discussed votes before
[00:41] <bodhizazen> In general ....
[00:41] <bodhizazen> to block an action you need to -1
[00:41] <cprofitt> nhandler, I did not know we had a procedure to handle such a large contingent of +0 votes
[00:41] <bodhizazen> In general if the majority of the team abstains we put the item on the next meetings agenda
[00:42] <cprofitt> bodhizazen, +1
[00:42] <cprofitt> that is what I thought
[00:42] <Joeb454> I'd say put it on the next agenda
[00:42] <nhandler> However, in this case, we are just having the council propose a charter (which won't take affect until approved at the next meeting)
[00:42] <Joeb454> paultag isn't here either
[00:42] <Ash_R> me too
[00:42] <cprofitt> and with only 2 votes for and 10 abstentions I would not count it as passed
[00:42] <Joeb454> though nhandler does have a point...
[00:42] <bodhizazen> we have no "rules" for how many voting members need to be present to hold a vote or what % an action needs to pass
[00:42] <MontelEdwards> bodhizazen nhandler cprofitt can we just re vote?
[00:42] <bodhizazen> has been "simple majority"
[00:42] <MontelEdwards> Now that we know the rulew
[00:42] <bodhizazen> yes :)
[00:42] <Hellow> I would have to say that 10 abstentions and 2 +1s would not pass
[00:42] <zu22> hi guys
[00:42] <st33med> 2/3s?
[00:43] <Joeb454> MontelEdwards: you're not on the team, technically you shouldn't be voting :
[00:43] <Hellow> at least, if it was under my control :)
[00:43] <bodhizazen> well Hellow 2 +1 and 10 0 technically =
[00:43] <nhandler> [IDEA] Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting
[00:43] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting
[00:43] <bodhizazen> 2 + votes
[00:43] <st33med> 2/3s of the votes have to be +1
[00:43] <zu22> 0
[00:43] <bodhizazen> as abstensions are deciding not to vote
[00:43] <Joeb454> +1
[00:43] <bodhizazen> IMHO
[00:43] <Rocket2DMn> lol, vote on voting guidelines
[00:43] <MontelEdwards> Joeb454 true, but im more active than you so i dont see the point of me not voteing
[00:43] <MontelEdwards> no offense
[00:44] <Hellow> MontelEdwards: That's debatable, but lets discuss it in a different channel
[00:44] <Hellow> Also, only team members can vote
[00:44] <Hellow> eod :P
[00:44] <jamesrfla> zu22: do a + then your number
[00:44] <bodhizazen> MontelEdwards: you are too new to see the point
[00:44] <zu22> +1
[00:44] <bodhizazen> ask the young members team :)
[00:44] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:44] <zu22> i vote for Ubuntu Beginners Team
[00:44] <zu22> :)
[00:44] <MontelEdwards> bodhizazen: i have been here for 3 months
[00:44] <jamesrfla> bodhizazen: young members team?
[00:44] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: please, discuss in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:44] <bodhizazen> Well some of us have been here for longer
[00:45]  * Hellow has been here for... over a year, I think
[00:45] <bodhizazen> so please ask in a more appropriate venue, lol
[00:45]  * jamesrfla about the same a Hellow probably less
[00:45] <nhandler> So do we just want to discuss the voting on the mailing list for now?
[00:45] <MontelEdwards> no, its been more than 3 months its 5
[00:45] <Hellow> Also, lol voting on voting
[00:45] <Ash_R> jamesrfla, we have a focus group :)
[00:45] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: enough, please
[00:45] <Hellow> MontelEdwards: Only team members can vote. EOD.
[00:45] <zu22> Bodsda +1
[00:46] <Hellow> yes, +1 Bodsda
[00:46] <MontelEdwards> Hellow: eod?
[00:46] <Bodsda> end of discussion
[00:46] <Hellow> MontelEdwards: End Of Discussion
[00:46] <nhandler> [VOTE] Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting
[00:46] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting.
[00:46] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:46] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:46] <Bodsda> can we get back ontopic please
[00:46] <cprofitt> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:46] <Bodsda> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:46] <zu22> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from zu22. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:46] <jgoguen> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:46] <swoody> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:46] <Hellow> +0
[00:46] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> Abstention received from Hellow. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:46] <duanedesign> +1
[00:46] <bodhizazen> +0
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:46] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhizazen. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:46] <Rocket2DMn> +0
[00:46] <MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:46] <MontelEdwards> +0
[00:46] <MootBot> Abstention received from MontelEdwards. 7 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:46] <nhandler> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 8 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:46] <Joeb454> +1
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 9 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:47] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:47] <MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 9
[00:47] <Ash_R> +0
[00:47] <nhandler> [AGREED] Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting
[00:47] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting
[00:47] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Team Renaming
[00:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team Renaming
[00:48] <nhandler> For those who have not noticed, the team has been renamed
[00:48] <bodhizazen> :)
[00:48] <bodhizazen> dead horse :)
[00:48] <cprofitt> [LINK] http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#6
[00:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#6
[00:48] <Rocket2DMn> what?! really!?
[00:48] <Hellow> Was about to ask if we had already done thing :P
[00:48] <nhandler> We went from the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team (UFBT) to the Ubuntu Beginners Team (UBT)
[00:48] <Hellow> this*
[00:48] <ibuclaw> Rocket2DMn, I'm just as shocked as you
[00:48] <duanedesign> \o/
[00:48] <nhandler> This means that all Launchpad teams were also renamed
[00:48] <bodhizazen> and the channel :)
[00:48] <nhandler> So our main team is now https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners
[00:48] <nhandler> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners
[00:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners
[00:49] <zu22> kewl
[00:49] <nhandler> The Focus Group teams went from ~ubuntuforums-beginners-foo to ~ubuntu-beginners-foo
[00:49] <nhandler> During this transition, the mailing lists and their archives were deleted
[00:49] <bodhizazen> Rocket2DMn: It was a request from the CC really
[00:49] <nhandler> However, the mailing list for the main team and for the council are now back up (but with new addresses)
[00:49] <Hellow> Not really a request, more of a suggestion :P
[00:49] <zu22> nhandler: lol why delete the archives? isn't that useful to have?
[00:50] <nhandler> zu22: It made it a LOT easier on the LP admins. And many team members have copies if needed
[00:50] <Rocket2DMn> bodhizazen, i know, i was playing dumb :)
[00:50] <zu22> nhandler: ah
[00:50] <nhandler> The IRC channel also moved to #ubuntu-beginners
[00:50] <bodhizazen> Ah, you got me Rocket2DMn
[00:50] <nhandler> Now, we are working on ensuring that all wiki pages have the correct information
[00:50] <bodhizazen> lol
[00:50] <swoody> o/
[00:51] <nhandler> Go ahead swoody
[00:51]  * bodhizazen suggests a team task / to-do list
[00:51] <jamesrfla> +1 Bod
[00:51] <nhandler> bodhizazen: Generating the to-do list for the transition would probably be harder than the transition itself ;)
[00:51] <jamesrfla> +1 bodhizazen
[00:51] <cprofitt> bodhizazen, the headers are all that likely need to be changed...
[00:51] <cprofitt> so it should be simple to ensure that...
[00:51] <Hellow> bodhizazen: Although I admit that would be nice, isnt that covered, at least in part, by the various agendas that we have?
[00:51] <duanedesign> will #ubuntuforums-beginners eventually stop forwarding to #ubuntu-beginners?
[00:51] <cprofitt> I will check the EDU team header after the meeting
[00:52] <bodhizazen> no duanedesign
[00:52] <nhandler> cprofitt: I think I got the headers fixed. But many pages include the mailing list URL or links to the LP page or IRC channel
[00:52] <cprofitt> k
[00:52] <cprofitt> I will check the EDU pages tonight
[00:52] <bodhizazen> nhandler: make the to-do list generic enough to be fast and easy to maintain
[00:52] <nhandler> [ACTION] cprofitt to check EDU pages
[00:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt to check EDU pages
[00:52] <Rocket2DMn> I think FG leads should check their own pages
[00:52] <nhandler> bodhizazen: If it is too generic, it won't help with anything
[00:52]  * MontelEdwards wouldnt mind scanning all the pages, he has nothing better to do.
[00:53] <zu22> swoody: wb
[00:53] <nhandler> [IDEA] Each FG Lead takes care of their own wiki pages
[00:53] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Each FG Lead takes care of their own wiki pages
[00:53] <duanedesign> what happened toour launchpad job thig?
[00:53] <zu22> nhandler +1
[00:53] <duanedesign> s/thig/thing
[00:53] <bodhizazen> probably should discuss a team to-do list of some kind
[00:53] <swoody> ty zu22
[00:53] <zu22> [IDEA] Everyone add the new address to their .signature file
[00:53] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Everyone add the new address to their .signature file
[00:53] <nhandler> bodhizazen: Would you like to create one?
[00:54] <bodhizazen> I would like to see if the team will use it first
[00:54] <swoody> So, the renaming hasn't affected any subscriptions, correct? We don't have to re-join all the LP groups we had joined previously?
[00:54] <bodhizazen> some say yea some say Ni
[00:54] <nhandler> Correct swoody
[00:54] <nhandler> [VOTE] Should we have a team todo list?
[00:54] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we have a team todo list?.
[00:54] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:54] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:54] <Ash_R> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:55] <bodhizazen> +1
[00:55] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhizazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:55] <cprofitt> +0
[00:55] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:55] <swoody> +1
[00:55] <Hellow> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:55] <zu22> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from zu22. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:55] <duanedesign> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:55] <Bodsda> +0
[00:55] <MootBot> Abstention received from Bodsda. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:55] <drs305> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:55] <Rocket2DMn> -1
[00:55] <MootBot> -1 received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:55] <nhandler> +0
[00:55] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 8 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:55] <MontelEdwards> +1
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from MontelEdwards. 9 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:55] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:56] <MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 8
[00:56] <Hellow> MontelEdwards: Why are you voting?
[00:56] <nhandler> [AGREED] Create a team todo list
[00:56] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Create a team todo list
[00:56] <nhandler> bodhizazen: Would you like to create it?
[00:56] <bodhizazen> the only way we can restrict that Hellow is to use Votebot
[00:56] <duanedesign> did we decide not to manage jobs through Launchpad?
[00:56] <bodhizazen> mootbot is open
[00:56] <zu22> MOntelEdwards: please respect the team guidelines. Onlt members can vote. Thank you.
[00:56] <Hellow> Also, shouldnt we be more specific on what we do with our team Todo?
[00:56] <nhandler> duanedesign: That was a project through the -dev FG
[00:56] <MontelEdwards> bodhizazen: i cannot vote?
[00:56] <bodhizazen> I will, but should discuss how to use it
[00:57] <swoody> MontelEdwards:  You are not a member of the BT, so no
[00:57] <bodhizazen> MontelEdwards: that has already been addressed with you ;)
[00:57] <Bodsda> MontelEdwards: this is not the place. please, discuss those issues in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:57] <nhandler> [ACTION] bodhizazen to create todo list
[00:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bodhizazen to create todo list
[00:57] <bodhizazen> MontelEdwards: Mootbot allows you to vote , but team rules do not :(
[00:58] <jamesrfla> we had a discussion on one of these meetings
[00:58] <nhandler> bodhizazen: Can we discuss how to use the todo list in the main channel and via the mailing list?
[00:58]  * Hellow senses the issue of using Mootbot rising
[00:58] <MontelEdwards> bodhizazen: Sorry, i wont vote any more
[00:58] <MontelEdwards> I thought Hellow was just saying that, i didnt believe him
[00:59] <Hellow> MontelEdwards: I never lie, even to those that I want to
[00:59] <bodhizazen> mailing list or channel, does not matter
[00:59] <nhandler> [TOPIC] FG meetings please!
[00:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  FG meetings please!
[00:59] <bodhizazen> +1
[00:59] <nhandler> Bodsda: You are up
[00:59] <Bodsda> cheers
[01:00] <Bodsda> so, I would like to see FG meetings, they are always TBA atm, lets get some meetings going to make members feel more involved and to help more people
[01:00]  * bodhizazen reminds team we are at the 1 hour mark :)
[01:00] <bodhizazen> +1 Bodsda
[01:00] <jamesrfla> yeah I have another meeting that should be starting soon
[01:00] <nhandler> bodhizazen: No team is after us, so we are fine.
[01:00] <Ash_R> bodhizazen,  if me and Joeb454  are still awake i say go for it :D
[01:00] <Ash_R> carry on!
[01:01] <cprofitt> I need to talk to bodhi about the EDU team
[01:01] <bodhizazen> OK, but people hate it when meeting goes over is all
[01:01] <cprofitt> but I agree on needing meetings
[01:01] <Hellow> I dont think I have seen a FG meeting in a while
[01:01] <bodhizazen> I think the Eduteam has grown beyond this team
[01:01] <cprofitt> did we as a team every hold the FG lead vote?
[01:01] <Bodsda> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#Focus%20Group%20Meetings
[01:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#Focus%20Group%20Meetings
[01:01] <Joeb454> +1 for ending the meeting if we need to :) but I'm still up Ash_R
[01:01] <nhandler> No cprofitt
[01:01] <Bodsda> FG leads, please add any meetings to that table
[01:01] <Rocket2DMn> I'll be having a Wiki FG meeting after I get back from vacation in early July
[01:02] <cprofitt> we can always move the meeting to #ubuntu-beginners
[01:02] <ibuclaw> Ash_R, don't forget ibuclaw and Bodsda
[01:02] <Bodsda> ibuclaw: huh?
[01:02] <nhandler> cprofitt: No need, nobody is after us
[01:02] <Ash_R> true,  i didn't see you around ibuclaw + bodsa
[01:02] <Bodsda> what have i done?
[01:02] <nhandler> Ok, I don't think there is anything to vote on here
[01:03] <Bodsda> nope, just a kick up the backside
[01:03] <nhandler> Bodsda: Do you want to send out an email to the list so we can discuss it more?
[01:03] <Hellow> [IDEA] More Individual FG Meetings
[01:03] <MootBot> IDEA received:  More Individual FG Meetings
[01:03] <MontelEdwards> Im going to eat dinner, bye =D
[01:03] <bodhizazen> Team members can always discuss to-do and FG on the main channel at any time
[01:03] <Bodsda> nhandler: sounds like a plan
[01:03] <bodhizazen> that is what the channel fsi 4
[01:03] <Bodsda> ty Hellow
[01:04] <nhandler> [ACTION] Bodsda to send email to mailing list to discuss FG meetings
[01:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Bodsda to send email to mailing list to discuss FG meetings
[01:04] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Any additional meeting topics?
[01:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any additional meeting topics?
[01:04] <Hellow> lol
[01:04] <nhandler> Anything else to discuss tonight?
[01:04] <cprofitt> Status of EDU FG team -- though that may be council based first
[01:04] <bodhizazen> o/
[01:05] <nhandler> Go ahead bodhizazen
[01:05] <cprofitt> and when the elections are going to happen
[01:05] <bodhizazen> I would like to get a sense of how the team feel behavior in teh channel is going in general
[01:05] <nhandler> I think the EDU FG issue might be better for the council to discuss first cprofitt
[01:05] <bodhizazen> problems ?
[01:05] <Vantrax> edu fg issue?
[01:06] <duanedesign> good i think
[01:06] <Hellow> bodhizazen: Sometimes behavior with some of our newer visitors gets out of hand
[01:06] <bodhizazen> cprofitt: there was a last minute change and the team became disinterested in "elections"
[01:06] <bodhizazen> lol
[01:06] <cprofitt> lol
[01:06] <Hellow> Otherwise, we are good imo.
[01:06] <cprofitt> so we are back to bodhi dictator... tis ok with me...
[01:06] <Hellow> also, lol
[01:06] <bodhizazen> so FG leads are appointed
[01:06]  * bodhizazen prefers elections
[01:06]  * nhandler is still looking for a new LP FG lead
[01:06] <cprofitt> I respect your lead... and you have built us so far bodhizazen
[01:06] <cprofitt> we should change the wiki then
[01:07] <nhandler> cprofitt: Do you want to handle that?
[01:07] <cprofitt> updating the wiki ?
[01:07] <nhandler> Yes cprofitt
[01:07] <cprofitt> sure... I can do that with the EDU review tonight
[01:07] <nhandler> [ACION] cprofitt to modify wiki to reflect that no FG elections will be held.
[01:07] <nhandler> [ACTION] cprofitt to modify wiki to reflect that no FG elections will be held.
[01:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt to modify wiki to reflect that no FG elections will be held.
[01:08] <bodhizazen> OK, well if there is a behavior issue bring it to the mailing list please :)
[01:08] <nhandler> [ACTION] Council to discuss Education FG issue
[01:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Council to discuss Education FG issue
[01:08] <nhandler> Anything else to discuss?
[01:08] <Bodsda> o/
[01:08] <nhandler> Yes Bodsda ?
[01:08] <bodhizazen> FYI we formed a young new users group to help with immature behavior, regardless of chronologic age, although I bet ie is more common in the chronologic short members
[01:09] <jamesrfla> yeah I just signed up for that team :)
[01:09] <ibuclaw> bodhizazen, how is that different from what is already out there?
[01:09] <drs305> o/
[01:09] <Bodsda> I'd just like to politely request that biccerring between members should not be done in #ubuntu-beginners  -- i know there is some anamosity between some members so please take it elsewhere
[01:09] <Ash_R> group page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/YNU
[01:09] <ibuclaw> ie: ##ubuteens or ##ubuntu-youths
[01:09] <drs305> +1 Bodsda
[01:09] <Hellow> Also related is GNUTeens, but heh
[01:09] <jamesrfla> ibuclaw: they can take my ##ubunteen channel
[01:10] <nhandler> Bodsda: If 2 members have a problem, it should be brought to the Council's attention
[01:10] <ibuclaw> sorry if there are any spelling mistakes :)
[01:10] <bodhizazen> ibuclaw: we have some people on the team interested in helping me with the young members
[01:10] <bodhizazen> so hopefully more guidance will be provided
[01:10]  * zu22 gotta go
[01:10] <Hellow> bodhizazen: I will help, even though I am young myself :P
[01:10] <bodhizazen> the idea is to do in discreetly
[01:10] <bodhizazen> *it*
[01:10] <Bodsda> nhandler: ok, il go there in future, ty
[01:11] <bodhizazen> and not embarrass people on the main channel
[01:11] <nhandler> Any more things to discuss?
[01:11] <bodhizazen> it is a behavior group, not a social club if you catch my drift =)
[01:11] <bodhizazen> Thanks Hellow
[01:11] <nhandler> I guess I will handle the minutes for this meeting again.
[01:11] <bodhizazen> we could probably use a wiki page :)
[01:11]  * Hellow gets on it
[01:11] <nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to handle minutes for meeting
[01:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to handle minutes for meeting
[01:12] <bodhizazen> nhandler: are the minutes not automagic on this channel ?
[01:12] <nhandler> [ACTION] Hellow to create wiki page for Young New Users Group
[01:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Hellow to create wiki page for Young New Users Group
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> those arent minutes, those are just logs
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> we dont really keep minutes
[01:12] <nhandler> bodhizazen: We have the MootBot minutes, but they are not usually complete
[01:12]  * Hellow is lost
[01:12] <bodhizazen> oic, lol
[01:12] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: The team reporting page has the minutes
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah nhandler , i forgot about that
[01:13] <bodhizazen> nhandler: you are doing a ton for the team
[01:13] <nhandler> :)
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler is a BT monster
[01:13] <bodhizazen> are you sure you are not taking on too much ?
[01:13] <jamesrfla> +1 Rocket2DMn
[01:13] <bodhizazen> I do not want to see youburn out
[01:13] <Hellow> BT Monster = rawr
[01:13] <nhandler> bodhizazen: Neither do I. Which is one reason I am intentionally not taking all of the meeting actions ;)
[01:13] <bgs100> Hellow, lol
[01:14] <jamesrfla> I can help you out nhandler just tell me what to do if I can
[01:14] <nhandler> jamesrfla: Sure thing
[01:14] <nhandler> [VOTE] End the meeting?
[01:14] <MootBot> Please vote on:  End the meeting?.
[01:14] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[01:14] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[01:14] <Hellow> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[01:14] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[01:14] <jgoguen> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[01:14] <drs305> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[01:14] <jamesrfla> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[01:14] <Vantrax> +1
[01:14] <cprofitt> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[01:14] <swoody> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[01:14] <ibuclaw> +1
[01:14] <MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
[01:14] <Bodsda> -1
[01:14] <MootBot> -1 received from Bodsda. 9 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[01:14] <bodhizazen> +0
[01:14] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhizazen. 9 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
[01:15] <Bodsda> i wanna stay
[01:15] <Vantrax> lol
[01:15] <Hellow> lol
[01:15] <nhandler> +1
[01:15] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 10 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9
[01:15] <Ash_R> +1
[01:15] <MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 11 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 10
[01:15] <duanedesign> +0
[01:15] <MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesign. 11 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
[01:15] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[01:15] <MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10
[01:15] <nhandler> The next meeting will take place two weeks from now on June 30th at 23:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:15] <Hellow> I have to wonder why we called a vote for that...
[01:15] <nhandler> #endmeeting
[01:15] <duanedesign> because we can :)
[01:15] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:15.
[01:16] <Joeb454> 19.15? it's 01.15 here
[01:17] <jamesrfla> Joeb454: I think that is UTC or military time
[01:17]  * Ash_R wishes is was 19:15
[01:17] <Ash_R> jamesrfla, the meeting didn't start until 23:00 UTC
[01:18] <jamesrfla> okay so not UTC time then,...
[01:18] <Bodsda> jamesrfla: its 01:18 UTC+1 atm
[01:19] <Vantrax> mootbot is confused..
[01:19]  * Ash_R should probably get to bed.   i have work in 5 hours 40 minutes
[01:20] <jamesrfla> +1 Ash_R
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <mterry> Hello!
[16:00]  * robbiew slides into the room at the last minute :)
[16:00] <liw> yo
[16:00] <mvo> jo
[16:01] <evand> hi-ya
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:02] <robbiew> okie dokie...let's get this thing rolling
[16:02] <robbiew> [TOPIC] DMRaid Update
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  DMRaid Update
[16:02] <mterry> That's me I guess
[16:02] <robbiew> mterry: so I gather TheMuso has informed you of the hardware requirements
[16:02] <robbiew> heh
[16:03] <mterry> I'm bailing on dmraid.  I don't have access to multiple hard drives after all.  Mostly what I and OEM have is netbooks that can't use more than one.  And apparently dmraid doesn't let me chain thumb drives
[16:03] <cjwatson> (here)
[16:04] <robbiew> :/
[16:04] <robbiew> poor dmraid...no one loves it :*(
[16:04] <mterry> I don't even own a tower, and OEM doesn't seem to either
[16:04] <evand> I have a laptop from Dell that has software RAID that I can send your way, but last I checked the card wasn't supported by dmraid.  Let me double check
[16:05] <liw> mterry, do you have the hw requirements handy?
[16:05] <mterry> yes...  hold on
[16:05] <mterry> From Luke: You will need a motherboard bought in the last few years, which has an Intel ICH SATA chipset, I think this can be anywhere from ICH7 through ICH10. YOu also need at least 2 disks of the same size, that you can allocate to dmraid testing. This will likely require you to initialize them for RAID, test data, whipe them, and then re-init them again, depending on the RAID leve you want to test. Finally, you will have to enable the RAID
[16:05] <mterry> features in the motherboard's BIOS.
[16:07] <liw> I have ICH9 (he says, feeling clouds of doom gather overhead)
[16:07] <mterry> liw: You have disks too?
[16:07] <liw> the machine has four hard disks, yes
[16:07] <mterry> heh, ok
[16:07] <robbiew> :D
[16:08]  * mterry lives in a world of disposable crappy laptops.  Hasn't seen 4 disks together since the 90s
[16:08] <robbiew> liw: can you connect with TheMuso sometime this week?
[16:09] <liw> see, I was right about the clouds...
[16:09] <liw> robbiew, sure; I can wipe the desktop and try to get dmraid working
[16:09] <robbiew> heh
[16:09] <mterry> liw: Sorry man
[16:09] <robbiew> [ACTION] liw to enter the storm of dmraid and talk to TheMuso
[16:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  liw to enter the storm of dmraid and talk to TheMuso
[16:10] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Roadmap & Status
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Roadmap & Status
[16:10] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:10]  * robbiew created the uber-doober of wiki pages
[16:11] <robbiew> I think I've gotten every possible blueprint that *may* go into Karmic listed
[16:11] <cjwatson> yow
[16:11]  * liw thinks blueprint.lp should do that...
[16:11] <robbiew> liw: +1000
[16:12] <robbiew> I still need to defer a few more, as 40+ is too many
[16:12] <cjwatson> you *can* do milestone targeting in LP
[16:12] <cjwatson> it's more an aggregation problem ...
[16:12]  * robbiew will continue reviews and deferrals this week
[16:12] <cjwatson> so who hasn't finished drafting yet?
[16:12] <slangasek> o/
[16:12] <cjwatson> I have 1.5 to go
[16:12] <evand> robbiew: tis missing https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-usb-creator-for-windows
[16:12] <cjwatson> (sorry ...)
[16:13] <evand> I have oneish to go
[16:13] <slangasek> 1
[16:13] <robbiew> evand: damn...and that's one I told davidm we would do :/
[16:13] <robbiew> thnx
[16:13] <robbiew> adding now
[16:13] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to add http://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-usb-creator-for-windows to Karmic Roadmap
[16:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to add http://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-usb-creator-for-windows to Karmic Roadmap
[16:13]  * mterry gets cjwatson to draft his specs for him
[16:14]  * cjwatson adapts a netbook for use as a shuriken
[16:14] <robbiew> heh
[16:14] <robbiew> I need to assign http://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-i586-support
[16:15]  * robbiew notices Keybuk has been quiet
[16:15] <robbiew> :P
[16:15] <Keybuk> robbiew: you didn't ping me ;)
[16:16] <liw> I have ... three to write, assuming they don't get deferred
[16:16]  * robbiew could have sworn there were calendar invites for this meeting...as no one reminds him to attend  (heh)
[16:16] <robbiew> liw: okay
[16:16] <Keybuk> i586 => waiting on infinity to make us a build, I guess
[16:17] <cjwatson> I'm told infinity was on it (as in, when I last asked, I was told he'd already been in touch with us), but I don't know current status
[16:17] <Keybuk> robbiew: the calendar doesn't affect me being quiet though :p
[16:17] <cjwatson> perhaps somebody who has been in touch with him could file an RT ticket?
[16:17] <robbiew> Keybuk: touche'
[16:17] <slangasek> I only had the one ping from him about whether it was a good time to snapshot
[16:17] <slangasek> what's the RT ticket supposed to say?
[16:18] <Keybuk> PLATFORM TEAM CAN HAZ 586 BUILZ PLZ
[16:18] <cjwatson> we need a fresh test build of alpha 2 plus a test build with the toolchain set to 586
[16:18] <cjwatson> or words to that effect
[16:19] <slangasek> ok
[16:19] <cjwatson> realistically, now, it has to be of the current archive, not alpha 2, but ...
[16:19] <cjwatson> unless he already took a snapshot
[16:19] <slangasek> I'm hoping he did that part :)
[16:19] <Keybuk> whoah
[16:19] <Keybuk> hang on
[16:19] <Keybuk> spooling far too far ahead there
[16:19] <Keybuk> it has to be a snapshot of an archive, with a 586-optimised compiler provided for that snapshot
[16:19] <Keybuk> if we snapshot now but use last month's compiler, we're in the same crazy test we were before
[16:19] <cjwatson> right, doesn't Adam already have the necessary patch in hand
[16:20] <cjwatson> ?
[16:20] <Keybuk> no, he has a compiler package
[16:20] <Keybuk> and a snapshot of the archive taken while we were at UDS
[16:21] <Keybuk> at least, afaik
[16:22] <robbiew> Keybuk: can I assign the blueprint to you, since you are clearly "in the know" on this one?
[16:22] <Keybuk> robbiew: I thought it was assigned to me :p
[16:22] <robbiew> heh
[16:22] <robbiew> it is now
[16:23] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Feature Milestones
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Feature Milestones
[16:23] <robbiew> I would like everyone to *try* to target their features to milestones this release
[16:24] <robbiew> and will look for this in any blueprint that I review
[16:24] <Keybuk> robbiew: can I target milestones for the next release? :)
[16:24] <robbiew> it's not a "set in stone" thing, but I think having some sort of target to shoot for (besides Beta) can help folks plan a little better
[16:24] <cjwatson> I haven't been doing that consistently in my reviews yet, I'm afraid
[16:24] <cjwatson> but I can start
[16:24] <robbiew> Keybuk: yeah...the boot performance stuff is a special case
[16:24] <robbiew> cjwatson: no worry
[16:25] <robbiew> I will be going over them all this week, anyway (yipee)
[16:25] <robbiew> so I can gently nudge people ;)
[16:25] <Keybuk> cjwatson: foundations-karmic-kms-console appears to be suddenly assigned to me too, it wasn't on Monday
[16:26] <Keybuk> I didn't take any notes about that one - and IS don't appear to have published the videos yet
[16:26] <Keybuk> can you remember what we agreed?  I thought it went something like "leave it all alone"
[16:26] <cjwatson> was that one videotaped?
[16:26] <robbiew> I don't think so
[16:27] <mterry> Keybuk: That one was where you said, let's not run usplash
[16:27] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I have some memories of it but mostly of testing things to make sure they already worked right
[16:27] <mterry> Keybuk: I don't remember anything else really coming out of it
[16:27] <cjwatson> and yes, there was the only-run-usplash-when-necessary thing
[16:27] <cjwatson> what about X on VT1?
[16:27] <Keybuk> yeah, I put that decision into boot-performance
[16:27] <robbiew> do we need to obsolete it?
[16:28] <cjwatson> oh
[16:28] <cjwatson> there was something about using a userspace terminal application, wasn't there?
[16:28] <cjwatson> so that we could do better font display
[16:28] <Keybuk> that was far in the future ;)
[16:28]  * cjwatson nods
[16:28] <liw> let's break one thing at a time...
[16:28] <mterry> I do remember X on VT1
[16:28] <Keybuk> "one day, all this will be apartments" kind of thing
[16:28] <mterry> Have to tell GDM and then have to not run getty on it
[16:29] <Keybuk> mterry: oh, we could put that in and stuff
[16:29] <Keybuk> good point
[16:29] <Keybuk> there seems to be a few notes to put there
[16:29] <robbiew> heh
[16:29] <Keybuk> I shall draft
[16:29] <cjwatson> see the discussion on #whereveritwas yesterday, I listed a bunch of stuff I could think of that assume X not on vt1
[16:29] <robbiew> oh yeah
[16:29] <robbiew> #ubuntu-devel?
[16:29] <liw> X on tty -> will that be conditional on X being installed? (e.g., servers might want getty on tty1 anyway)
[16:29] <liw> cjwatson, I saw it, so probably #ubuntu-devel
[16:30] <cjwatson> I think it was #canonical or #distro unfortunately, but there was nothing secret there, it could be copied and pasted into the spec :)
[16:30] <Keybuk> cjwatson: can't see anything on irclogs.ubuntu.com :(
[16:30] <cjwatson> you commented on the discussion while it was in progress so I rather assumed you'd seen it
[16:31] <Keybuk> doesn't mean I remember it ;)
[16:31] <liw> hmm... #distro yesterday at around 18:45?
[16:31] <robbiew> [ACTION] Keybuk to draft KMS on the Console spec....based on mysterious irc discussion
[16:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to draft KMS on the Console spec....based on mysterious irc discussion
[16:31] <liw> (UTC)
[16:31] <robbiew> heh
[16:31] <cjwatson> yeah, what liw said
[16:31] <cjwatson> (took me a moment to find my logs)
[16:31] <liw> Keybuk, if you need, I can e-mail you logs
[16:32] <Keybuk> liw: please
[16:32]  * Keybuk checks irclogs.canonical.com
[16:32] <Keybuk> hah, we don't log #distro
[16:32] <cjwatson> Keybuk: you said something at one point about it being possible to run getty and X on tty1 simultaneously, with KMS
[16:32] <cjwatson> Keybuk: is this still believed to be true?
[16:32] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yeah you can
[16:32] <slangasek> Keybuk: RT 34671 for the snapshot stuff
[16:32] <Keybuk> cjwatson: of course, getty receives all the raw input events on its standard input
[16:32] <Keybuk> cjwatson: so it's a less-than-ideal situation
[16:33] <cjwatson> ah, right, so we really ought to kill getty in that case
[16:33] <cjwatson> otherwise we have an android kind of situation
[16:34] <liw> Keybuk, sent
[16:34] <Keybuk> yeah
[16:34] <Keybuk> though not quite
[16:34] <cjwatson> sure, you aren't logged in
[16:34] <cjwatson> unless you get lucky :)
[16:34] <Keybuk> because the raw input stream for the word "reboot" doesn't look much like "reboot" <g>
[16:34] <cjwatson> true
[16:34] <cjwatson> still, best not
[16:35] <Keybuk> well, indeed
[16:35] <robbiew> anything else before we move onto the sprint update (or lack thereof)?
[16:36] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Platform Sprint Update
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Platform Sprint Update
[16:37] <robbiew> so....
[16:37] <robbiew> still waiting on confirmation of the location
[16:37] <liw> the sprint invokes ct-uluhu
[16:37] <robbiew> the current situation is Dublin is the first candidate...pending some bandwidth confirmation
[16:37] <slangasek> robbiew: I sent in a request to Atlas about booking for DebConf + Dublin yesterday afternoon, and haven't heard anything back yet :P
[16:37] <robbiew> and Glasgow is the fallback
[16:37] <mterry> ahem, sorry dropped off for a sec
[16:38] <slangasek> robbiew: have you heard anything more from them?
[16:38] <robbiew> slangasek: I heard back just now...so they are probably just waking up :P
[16:38]  * robbiew forgot to provide the dates for the platform sprint :/
[16:38] <slangasek> I gave them plenty of time to reply yesterday afternoon :)
[16:38] <robbiew> so will wait for 2nd response
[16:39] <robbiew> for those planning on coming home after Debconf, you are clear to arrange travel for it
[16:39] <robbiew> and just wait on the Platform Sprint location to plan that travel
[16:40] <slangasek> yes, nothing like spending 3 days straight on a plane :)
[16:40] <robbiew> we, who cannot do such things, should get prices assuming Dublin....and then see how much it would be to change to Glasgow within the next week or so...if needed
[16:40]  * liw suspects he's never able to back home again, too much travel
[16:41]  * robbiew has very little sympathy for liw's travel...heh
[16:41] <robbiew> anyway...sorry I don't have more info, but rest assured that I will relay it as soon as I get it
[16:42] <robbiew> [TOPIC] 8.04.3
[16:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  8.04.3
[16:42] <robbiew> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.3
[16:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.3
[16:42] <robbiew> slangasek: how are we looking on this?  anything you need from folks on the team?
[16:43] <cjwatson> is it true to say that any bug for which we haven't uploaded a fix yet is too late for .3?
[16:43] <cjwatson> (that's code for "should I be deferring 250400 rather than worrying about it")
[16:43] <robbiew> heh
[16:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: it's tending to be, but given that the schedule is loose we can make exceptions if we need them
[16:44] <slangasek> robbiew: overall I think we're ok
[16:45]  * evand uploaded a new casper earlier today that he'd really like to see in that exceptions list.
[16:45] <slangasek> evand: noted, thanks
[16:45] <evand> thank you
[16:45] <cjwatson> casper's definitely more important than ssl-cert :)
[16:46] <robbiew> okay...moving on
[16:47] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:48] <cjwatson> for once, this week, I don't feel guilty at all
[16:48] <robbiew> last 30 days:
[16:48] <robbiew> cjwatson, 23 bug comments, 12 sponsored uploads vorlon, 18 bug comments, 6 sponsored uploads james-w, 10 bug comments, 7 sponsored uploads mvo, 7 bug comments, 12 sponsored uploads evand, 1 bug comments, 0 sponsored uploads doko, 0 bug comments, 1 sponsored uploads scott, 0 bug comments, 1 sponsored uploads liw, 0 bug comments, 0 sponsored uploads
[16:48]  * evand makes up for that guilt with his own.
[16:48] <slangasek> whooo I beat james_w
[16:49] <robbiew> courtesy of jono...your lovely community manager :D
[16:49]  * liw can't sponsor and feels no shame :)
[16:49] <cjwatson> we're all still hugely behind the desktop team
[16:49] <cjwatson> or indeed dholbach on his own
[16:49] <mvo> new gnome makes it somewhat easier to sponsor :)
[16:50] <robbiew> liw: so how is the MOTU progress? heh
[16:50] <robbiew> dholbach, 92 bug comments, 62 sponsored uploads
[16:50] <robbiew> :)
[16:50] <mvo> but it would be cool to get a similar sponsoring culture as #ubuntu-desktop
[16:50] <liw> robbiew, my MOTU progress is exactly where it should be right now, given the circumstances
[16:50] <mvo> dholbach: woah!
[16:51] <Keybuk> damnit, how did I get a 1 in there?
[16:51] <slangasek> presumably, "do this thing, then resubscribe u-m-s" doesn't show up in the comment count
[16:51]  * Keybuk has been trying to keep his score at 0
[16:51] <robbiew> heh
[16:51] <liw> are those all bug comments, or just to some subset of all bugs?
[16:51] <mvo> liw: just in the context of sponsoring bugs
[16:51] <robbiew> liw: dholbach should be able to give you the details on these numbers
[16:52] <mvo> (AFAIK)
[16:52] <cjwatson> comments on bugs to which ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors is subscribed
[16:52] <liw> right, I haven't touched any of those
[16:52]  * liw makes everyone else look good by being at the bottom
[16:53] <robbiew> actually....robbie.w is at the bottom
[16:53] <mterry> liw: Don't steal *all* the credit, I'm not even listed
[16:53] <mvo> robbiew: how is the motu progress ;) ?
[16:53] <robbiew> but I left that off...since I have no plans of moving up
[16:53] <robbiew> mvo: about the same as liw, apparently :P
[16:53] <mvo> lol
[16:54] <Keybuk> robbiew: I was just going to say "I can add you to MOTU", then realised I can't!
[16:54] <cjwatson> we voted to keep you on the board, but sabdfl hasn't flipped the switch back yet ...
[16:54] <Keybuk> cjwatson: the TB doesn't get to elect its own members though
[16:55] <cjwatson> the question of expiry is ... unclear
[16:55] <cjwatson> appointments have always been officially for a year, but you and mdz were never reelected
[16:55] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News
[16:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News
[16:56] <Keybuk> at least I remembered to add myself to appropriate teams such as ubuntu-core-dev ;)
[16:56] <mdz> cjwatson, I can fix that
[16:56] <mdz> cjwatson, (the expiry)
[16:56] <cjwatson> please do :)
[16:56] <cjwatson> fixing the website description (aka constitution) to be a bit less at variance from reality would be nice too, but I think there's a bug about that ...
[16:56] <mvo> is there a timeline when the vfs based union mounts will land?
[16:57]  * mvo is eagger to try them with update-manager :)
[16:57] <liw> does ubuntu participate in LCA?
[16:57] <robbiew> liw: LCA?
[16:57] <Keybuk> mvo: just waiting for a patch that works ;)
[16:57] <cjwatson> as in linux.conf.au?
[16:57] <robbiew> ah
[16:57] <liw> yeah, linux.conf.au
[16:57] <Keybuk> mvo: the current patch set conflicts with autofs in an interesting way
[16:58] <Keybuk> mvo: (you can't exec anything on a union mount, basically)
[16:58] <mvo> haha
[16:58] <mvo> not ideal ;)
[16:58] <Keybuk> liw: we've always traditionally attended, though it's a long way away so some people prefer not to
[16:58] <robbiew> liw: I think so...i recall davidm possibly going last year
[16:58] <mvo> is it realistic that it still lands for karmic even with those problems?
[16:59] <Keybuk> mvo: honestly, finding a few bugs makes me feel happier about it
[16:59] <davidm> robbiew, I did indeed go to LCA last year
[16:59] <cjwatson> Keybuk: YM you've got close enough to be *able* to find bugs?
[16:59] <Keybuk> I'd be scared if we had a patch and no bugs - because I'd want to know when the big arsed bug was going to bite us
[16:59] <Keybuk> cjwatson: that too
[16:59] <robbiew> liw: ^^^^
[16:59] <mvo> ok
[16:59] <robbiew> FYI, slangasek, Keybuk, cjwatson, and me are in Millbank for the  BootPerformance Sprint next week: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/DebianUbuntuSprint
[16:59] <Keybuk> if I can mount the union, and apt-get dist-upgrade the contained squashfs, I'll be happy ;)
[17:00] <Keybuk> you mean we're not doing it on The Boat?
[17:00] <robbiew> heh
[17:00] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
[17:00] <robbiew> need to end meeting...think QA is next
[17:00] <liw> thanks
[17:01] <mvo> thanks
[17:01] <slangasek> thankee
[17:01] <al-maisan> thanks!
[17:59] <heno> hi everyone
[17:59] <davmor2> hello
[17:59] <sbeattie> hey
[18:00] <pedro_> hola hola!
[18:00] <ara> hello :)
[18:00] <ogasawara> hi
[18:00] <eeejay> marhaba
[18:01]  * fader waves.
[18:01] <heno> bdmurray is away today but might make an appearance
[18:02] <schwuk> hi
[18:02] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
[18:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <heno> doesn't look like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings has really been updated
[18:03] <heno> but many items are still relevant :)
[18:03] <pedro_> indeed
[18:03] <heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:04] <pedro_> past Thursday we celebrated a hug day based on update-manager and update-notifier
[18:04] <pedro_> we had a really good participation from the bugsquad as you can see per: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090611
[18:04]  * heno did a quick edit
[18:05] <pedro_> the heroes of that day are: mr-toph, jgoguen, showard314, Kamus, micahg
[18:05] <pedro_> thanks a lot folks for helping us ;-)
[18:05] <heno> rock!
[18:05] <heno> thanks pedro_
[18:05] <pedro_> and tomorrow we are celebrating a hug day based on empathy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090618
[18:05] <davmor2> could be fun
[18:05] <pedro_> so feel free to join us, triage some bugs, test the new application and file some bugs as well ;-)
[18:06] <heno> pedro_: should we talk about rb and pidgin bugs?
[18:06] <pedro_> if we have time, yeah
[18:07] <heno> it would be valuable to have bdmurray here for that though
[18:07] <heno> pedro_: you said you were taking it up with the desktop team this/next week?
[18:07] <pedro_> heno: ok , let me raise that with the desktop folks and we can talk about it on the next meeting
[18:07] <heno> ok, great
[18:08] <pedro_> exactly
[18:08] <heno> [TOPIC] qa.u.c landing page. Any news?
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  qa.u.c landing page. Any news?
[18:08] <heno> AFAICS it's no longer blocked on server access
[18:08] <heno> schwuk: ?
[18:09]  * ara is looking forward to seeing a beautiful landing page 
[18:09] <schwuk> heno: Last I heard it was waiting on IS to finsihed the migration, but no action. I've poked the last IS'er to touch it.
[18:09] <schwuk> And he's just come back with "it's very high on my list, in fact it's top"
[18:10] <pedro_> where was the mock up of the landing page?
[18:10]  * pedro_ can't find it
[18:10] <heno> schwuk: ok. let me know if it's still pending on them Friday
[18:10] <schwuk> heno: yes
[18:11]  * cr3 heno I'm surprised the IS team has time to go around servers and purge packages, such as my latex requirements, and not finish the landing page already <grumble> :)
[18:11] <ara> pedro_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~schwuk/homepage/
[18:11] <pedro_> ara: gracias
[18:12] <heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:12] <sbeattie> Two bits:
[18:12] <sbeattie> First up, thanks to Fumihito YOSHIDA and the Japanese LoCo team, Imtiaz Rahi Russ Miranda, and Arnaud Quette for helping out toverify fixes this week.
[18:12] <ara> schwuk: before it is too late... there is already a broken link
[18:13] <schwuk> ara: well stop renaming projects!
[18:13] <ara> schwuk: what was the new name for hwtest that I just forgot?
[18:13] <ara> schwuk: :P
[18:13] <sbeattie> and second, the next testing day will focus on SRU verifications for the upcoming 8.04.3 point release: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090622
[18:13] <schwuk> ara: touche!
[18:13] <sbeattie> (that page is still in progress)
[18:14] <pedro_> there's quite a lot of hw specific bugs to verify there, eek
[18:15] <sbeattie> Yeah, it'd be great if people could look that over to see if they have that hardware.
[18:15] <pedro_> sbeattie: what do you think about doing a blog post with a list of the required hardware for those bugs and ask people to test that packages?
[18:15] <sbeattie> pedro_: I think it'd be a good idea.
[18:15] <pedro_> planet ubuntu has a wider audience
[18:15] <cr3> sbeattie: I certainly have some hardware, like the 1420N somewhere near the top of the list
[18:16]  * heno agrees
[18:16] <sbeattie> cr3|fader: that's another point; once we get 8.04.3 isos going, can we do a round of the certification testing on them?
[18:16] <cr3> sbeattie: yep
[18:17] <fader> sbeattie: That shouldn't be a problem
[18:17] <sbeattie> awesome!
[18:17] <heno> great!
[18:17] <sbeattie> expect nagging. :-)
[18:17] <heno> ok, thanks sbeattie
[18:18] <heno> [TOPIC] Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:19] <schwuk> ara: fixed
[18:19] <heno> just 3 specs not approved now
[18:19] <ara> schwuk: thanks
[18:19] <ogasawara> heno: both mine (kernel bug handling and hwdb) are finished drafting and just pending review
[18:19] <heno> and tomorrow is the project wide drop-dead date
[18:20] <heno> ogasawara: we need to nag pgraner harder ;)
[18:20] <heno> or I can help review them, just let me know, pgraner
[18:21] <heno> and finally the checkbox enhancements spec needs more detail
[18:21] <heno> schwuk:  do you need help with that?
[18:21] <ogasawara> schwuk: I added a use case to that spec yesterday, hope you don't mind
[18:21] <schwuk> heno: site is live - there's some more cleanup to do WRT CSS, but we're not blocked on IS anymore.
[18:22] <schwuk> heno: No - still adding more detail.
[18:22] <schwuk> ogasawara: I saw - thanks!
[18:22] <heno> woho - excellent timing!
[18:22] <heno> http://qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:22] <ara> \o/
[18:23] <pedro_> woohoo!
[18:23] <ogasawara> nice!
[18:23] <fader> Huzzah!
[18:23] <heno> schwuk: ok, I'll want to do a final spec review tomorrow
[18:23] <davmor2> yay!
[18:24] <heno> yeah, it would be nice to have link colours match u.c
[18:24] <schwuk> heno: noted
[18:24] <heno> schwuk: can you clean up a few things like that and then blog about it?
[18:25] <schwuk> heno: sure
[18:25] <heno> great
[18:25] <schwuk> For everyone else: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+filebug :)
[18:25] <heno> any other topics?
[18:27] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:27] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
[18:27] <heno> that was quick!
[18:27] <schwuk> \o/
[18:27] <schwuk> thanks heno
[18:27] <pedro_> thanks you guys
[18:27] <davmor2> thanks
[18:27] <ara> thanks everyone
[18:27] <sbeattie> thanks everyone.