[00:00] Bodsda: i didnt know their was a mailing list. [00:00] where is the signup link? [00:00] MontelEdwards: yes there is, but lets keep that chatter to #ubuntnu-beginners please [00:00] Bodsda: agreed. [00:01] ** Kubuntu meeting in #kubuntu-devel [00:03] Are we go for the meeting now? [00:04] I think we're waiting for bodhizazen [00:06] Rocket2DMn: oh ok [00:09] nhandler, let's get started [00:10] +1 Rocket2DMn [00:10] #startmeeting [00:10] Meeting started at 18:10. The chair is nhandler. [00:10] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [00:10] Ok, time for the Ubuntu Beginners Team meeting [00:10] [TOPIC] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams [00:10] New Topic: Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams [00:11] Discussion has already taken place on the mailing list about this topic, and it appears that a good portion of the team has no objections to this [00:11] :) [00:11] Welcome bodhizazen [00:11] Hey bodhizazen, feel free to take over, I'll just send the MootBot commands :) [00:12] do we have an agenda ? [00:12] o/ I have no objections [00:12] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:12] bodhizazen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:12] bodhizazen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings/#General%20Agenda%20Items%20and%20Proposals [00:12] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:12] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:13] got it :) [00:13] I think it is a good idea nhandler [00:13] To summarize the agenda item, by having the council as an admin, they would be able to add/remove members as well as modify various details about the team. They would not take over running the teams, this would be left to the Focus Group Leaders [00:14] Does this apply to the umbrella team as well? [00:14] I also feel we should consolidate LP wiki pages and mailing lists where at all possible [00:15] bodhizazen: All mailing lists aside from the main team one and the council one should have been disabled [00:15] Rocket2DMn: This would apply to all teams except ~ubuntu-beginners-council [00:15] IMO it is important to be able to administrate these LP teams if an administrator goes AWOL (which has not happened recently, but is a problem when it occurs). [00:15] do we know if the other mailing lists have been disabled? [00:15] the original ufbt mailing list no longer works [00:16] thats b/c the team name changed [00:16] Rocket2DMn: Yes. Unless they have been manually recreated, they were all deleted when the teams were renamed [00:16] ok, thanks nhandler [00:16] sweet [00:16] Think we can vote on this issue? [00:16] I do not feel our mailing list is so active that we really need more then one list at this tiem [00:16] +1vote :) [00:17] agreed bodhizazen , we discussed that a few months ago [00:17] +1 [00:17] [VOTE] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams. [00:17] Please vote on: Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams.. [00:17] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:17] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:17] +1 received from bodhizazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from swoody. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from Ash_R. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:17] +1 [00:17] bodhizazen: +1 [00:17] +1 received from Bodsda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from MontelEdwards. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from Snova. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8 [00:17] +1 received from jgoguen. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from drs305. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from bgs100. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11 [00:18] Any more votes? [00:18] +1 [00:18] +1 [00:18] +1 received from ibuclaw. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12 [00:18] +1 received from st33med. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13 [00:18] lol [00:18] Think that was it, lol [00:18] #endvote [00:18] I just came in lol [00:19] I didn't know what I voted on so... I SCREWED THE VOTES, RECOUNT! [00:19] XD [00:19] [ENDVOTE] [00:19] Final result is 13 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 13 [00:19] lol [00:19] [ACTION] nhandler to contact LP team owners to get necessary permission changes made [00:19] ACTION received: nhandler to contact LP team owners to get necessary permission changes made [00:20] thank you nhandler [00:20] [AGREED] Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams. [00:20] AGREED received: Add ~ubuntu-beginners-council as administrator for all Ubuntu Beginners Team Launchpad teams. [00:20] * cprofitt apologizes for being late [00:20] [TOPIC] Add a logo to the beginners team social group [00:20] New Topic: Add a logo to the beginners team social group [00:20] we have a social group? [00:20] On ubuntu forums the social group Beginner Team Members [ http://ubuntuforums.org/group.php?groupid=79 ] lacks a logo. It has the default question mark. Should it not be changed to something else, such as the logo used on launchpad ( https://launchpadlibrarian.net/15997130/branding.png ) ? Another idea, could be to do a similar logo to that of the unanswered posts team ( http://ubuntuforums.org/image.php?groupid=52&dateline=1229 [00:20] 849008 ) . If any action is to be taken I think only bodhi can change the logo as he created the social group. [00:21] any thoughts? [00:21] I am "OK" with that, but to be honest was consiering disbanding the social group as we all hang on IRC [00:21] bodhizazen: all hang? [00:21] what do you mean? [00:21] LOL [00:22] if we keep the social group, which i dont think brings anything to the team, then we should get a logo, but I have no issues with disbanding it [00:22] hang-out, ie are active on IRC [00:22] Are there any reasons to have the social group? [00:22] MontelEdwards: we are an IRC orientated team [00:22] bodhizazen, I would not disband [00:22] who work heavily on the forums [00:22] cprofitt: Why not? [00:22] it still serves as an ad that we exist [00:22] When we started the team, social groups were the rage [00:22] Don't we have a moderated user group on the forums already? [00:23] nhandler, wasn't it a place to introduce ourselves not only to the team but also to the forum based community [00:23] now we have irc and mailing lists and what noe [00:23] *not* [00:23] woah woah woah, do you mean take away the team IRC? [00:23] some may bot be on irc [00:23] MontelEdwards: no [00:23] *not [00:23] I do not see a reason to have more than one social group, but keeping one would still serve a purpose [00:23] and does no harm [00:23] Bodsda: then what? [00:23] Well, the problem was ... [00:23] Ash_R: If they have any intention of joining the team, they will need to get on IRC [00:23] we got a ton of join requests from non-members [00:24] so ... [00:24] MontelEdwards: the forums have social groups, just a little team page thingy.. we have one but hardly use it [00:24] we made 2 social groups [00:24] one moderated, members only [00:24] the other unmoderated [00:24] over time it seems the social groups have been used less and less [00:25] if we keep it, I am OK with adding an icon [00:25] Oh forget that then [00:25] if it was causing some damage I could see getting rid of it... [00:25] but it really does no harm... [00:25] it does no harm keeping it [00:25] Should we vote on this? [00:25] I'm in favor of keeping, and adding an icon [00:25] and people looking at members profiles will see it and see that a group exists [00:25] its a subtle minor change :) [00:25] [VOTE] Delete the UBT Social Group on the Forums? [00:25] Please vote on: Delete the UBT Social Group on the Forums?. [00:25] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:25] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:25] +1 nhandler [00:25] +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:26] oh [00:26] -1 [00:26] -1 [00:26] -1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:26] -1 received from Bodsda. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1 [00:26] +0 [00:26] Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1 [00:26] -1 [00:26] -1 received from Ash_R. 1 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:26] -1 [00:26] +1 [00:26] +1 received from drs305. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1 [00:26] 0 [00:26] -1 [00:26] 0 [00:26] -1 received from swoody. 2 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:26] +0 [00:26] Abstention received from bodhizazen. 2 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:26] +0 [00:26] um I want to change mine to -1 [00:26] Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 4 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2 [00:26] -1 [00:26] -1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:26] +0 [00:26] Abstention received from ibuclaw. 2 for, 5 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:26] +0 [00:26] Abstention received from bgs100. 2 for, 5 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:26] jamesrfla: Just vote again [00:26] 0 [00:26] +0 [00:26] Abstention received from Joeb454. 2 for, 5 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now -3 [00:26] it said I already votted [00:27] jamesrfla: dont worry, its minus anyway [00:27] [ENDVOTE] [00:27] Final result is 2 for, 5 against. 6 abstained. Total: -3 [00:27] crap [00:27] i forgot to vote [00:27] MontelEdwards, ideally, only members should vote [00:27] [VOTE] Add icon from Launchpad to Social Group [00:27] Please vote on: Add icon from Launchpad to Social Group. [00:27] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:27] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +0 [00:27] Abstention received from ibuclaw. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:27] +1 received from Joeb454. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from Bodsda. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from Ash_R. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6 [00:27] +1 received from MontelEdwards. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7 [00:27] +1 [00:27] +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8 [00:28] +1 [00:28] +1 received from drs305. 9 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9 [00:28] +1 [00:28] +1 received from bodhizazen. 10 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 10 [00:28] +0 [00:28] Abstention received from cprofitt. 10 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10 [00:28] -1 [00:28] -1 received from duanedesign. 10 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9 [00:28] which icon do we want ? [00:28] bodhizazen: The icon on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners [00:28] +1 [00:28] +1 received from Snova. 11 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10 [00:29] [ENDVOTE] [00:29] Final result is 11 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10 [00:29] bodhizazen, perhaps we should leave it open for submissions [00:29] or maybe not as it would be good for unity of the logos on the forum and launchpad [00:29] [AGREED] Add icon from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners to Social Group [00:29] AGREED received: Add icon from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners to Social Group [00:30] [TOPIC] Discuss purpose of the council [00:30] New Topic: Discuss purpose of the council [00:30] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Jedi%20Council [00:30] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure#Jedi%20Council [00:30] The purpose of the council is briefly discussed above [00:30] Sadly, paultag is not present [00:31] Based on the discussion on the mailing list, it appears that several members want the council to take a more active role in the running of the team [00:31] note: agenda item added (sorry for last minute addition) [00:31] Before doing this, I would like to decide on a clear purpose and guidelines for the council [00:31] what is not being done? [00:32] icon has been changed ;) [00:32] yay :) [00:32] [IDEA] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting [00:32] IDEA received: Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting [00:32] This is what the motu-release team did during the Jaunty cycle [00:33] it may take more than one meeting to iron out a charter [00:33] I think I missed the discussion nhandler =) [00:33] but the idea is sound... [00:33] Just FYI, I won't be here for the next meeting. I'm leaving Friday for vacation [00:33] I also did not catch this discussion on the mailing list... [00:33] what is it we want the council to do ? [00:33] I won't be able to participate in such a discussion at this time [00:33] I will have to make sure I am on it... [00:33] in general [00:33] Rocket2DMn, why? [00:33] nhandler, afaik, the "Knights" are the proactive role members in general who try to keep the peace [00:34] cprofitt, i can right now (this evening), but ill be gone for a few weeks starting on Friday, and I'm very busy up til then. [00:34] ibuclaw: I agree. I expressed my opinion on the issue on the list [00:34] the "Council" make decisions when things escalate beyond what the "Knights" can handle (ie: temp bannings, etc,etc) [00:34] so i wont be able to help much with putting together a proposal [00:34] k [00:35] Rocket2DMn: Ok, we will be sure to catch you up when you return [00:35] [VOTE] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting [00:35] Please vote on: Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting. [00:35] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:35] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:35] thats fine nhandler [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from ibuclaw. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from Bodsda. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from jamesrfla. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from Ash_R. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from bodhizazen. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] I will abstain since I am on the council [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] lol [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:35] +1 [00:35] +1 [00:35] +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:35] +1 received from swoody. 2 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:35] +0 [00:35] Abstention received from Joeb454. 2 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:36] Team members need to vote plesae [00:36] I am indifferent to this... but we have been running fairly well w/o such a charter [00:36] nhandler: or someone please forward the email to me, I can not find the discussion in my inbox [00:36] +0 [00:36] Abstention received from drs305. 2 for, 0 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:36] I only abstained because I'm currently on the council, and we seem to be doing OK as is [00:36] nhandler, please forward it to me as well [00:36] unless the discussion was all today [00:36] [ACTION] nhandler to forward email to entire council [00:36] ACTION received: nhandler to forward email to entire council [00:36] thank you :) [00:37] * cprofitt nods [00:37] [ENDVOTE] [00:37] Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 10 abstained. Total: 2 [00:37] [AGREED] Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting [00:37] AGREED received: Have council create charter to be approved at next team meeting [00:37] o/ [00:37] * bodhizazen would like to suggest there are always things to do if people would like "assignments" , lol [00:37] I think the main proponent of the council taking on a more active role was ptag [00:37] [ACTION] Council to schedule meeting to start work on a charter [00:37] ACTION received: Council to schedule meeting to start work on a charter [00:37] Did you want to include paultag directly in creating that charter? [00:37] Yes Rocket2DMn ? [00:38] bodhizazen: is there a wiki on that? [00:38] woah... [00:38] that was 10 abstentions... I do not think the measure passed [00:38] Rocket2DMn: I have no objections to including him [00:38] no jamesrfla , we had a discussion on a task list at one point ... [00:38] cprofitt: is right [00:39] cprofitt: A vote of +0 is non-blocking on the issue [00:39] nhandler, ? [00:39] We had less than 50% of the members vote yes [00:39] cprofitt: Only a vote of -1 is considered "blocking" on an issue. +0 does not block. [00:39] cprofitt: but nobody voted to stop it :) [00:39] if we are going to have a +1 and 20 +0s = a yes vote I will stop voting +0 [00:39] even if a charted is a reiteration of already established procedure, at least it was addressed [00:40] MootBot: should take off +0 because its pointless [00:40] do we have rules for votes... [00:40] abstentions do not prevent a measure from passing, you need to -1 [00:40] duanedesign makes a good point [00:40] please change my vote to a -1 then [00:40] we can just reiterate what we already do [00:40] (and dont do) [00:40] cprofitt: No, we have not created clear guidelines for the votes [00:40] What if the entire team votes +0? [00:40] as the voting does not follow any rules I am familiar with [00:40] er, 0 [00:40] Good question habtool [00:40] ah [00:40] Hellow: [00:40] cprofitt: We have been using the standard voting procedure used by most other teams in the community [00:40] we have, however, discussed votes before [00:41] In general .... [00:41] to block an action you need to -1 [00:41] nhandler, I did not know we had a procedure to handle such a large contingent of +0 votes [00:41] In general if the majority of the team abstains we put the item on the next meetings agenda [00:42] bodhizazen, +1 [00:42] that is what I thought [00:42] I'd say put it on the next agenda [00:42] However, in this case, we are just having the council propose a charter (which won't take affect until approved at the next meeting) [00:42] paultag isn't here either [00:42] me too [00:42] and with only 2 votes for and 10 abstentions I would not count it as passed [00:42] though nhandler does have a point... [00:42] we have no "rules" for how many voting members need to be present to hold a vote or what % an action needs to pass [00:42] bodhizazen nhandler cprofitt can we just re vote? [00:42] has been "simple majority" [00:42] Now that we know the rulew [00:42] yes :) [00:42] I would have to say that 10 abstentions and 2 +1s would not pass [00:42] hi guys [00:42] 2/3s? [00:43] MontelEdwards: you're not on the team, technically you shouldn't be voting : [00:43] at least, if it was under my control :) [00:43] well Hellow 2 +1 and 10 0 technically = [00:43] [IDEA] Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting [00:43] IDEA received: Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting [00:43] 2 + votes [00:43] 2/3s of the votes have to be +1 [00:43] 0 [00:43] as abstensions are deciding not to vote [00:43] +1 [00:43] IMHO [00:43] lol, vote on voting guidelines [00:43] Joeb454 true, but im more active than you so i dont see the point of me not voteing [00:43] no offense [00:44] MontelEdwards: That's debatable, but lets discuss it in a different channel [00:44] Also, only team members can vote [00:44] eod :P [00:44] zu22: do a + then your number [00:44] MontelEdwards: you are too new to see the point [00:44] +1 [00:44] ask the young members team :) [00:44] +1 [00:44] i vote for Ubuntu Beginners Team [00:44] :) [00:44] bodhizazen: i have been here for 3 months [00:44] bodhizazen: young members team? [00:44] MontelEdwards: please, discuss in #ubuntu-beginners [00:44] Well some of us have been here for longer [00:45] * Hellow has been here for... over a year, I think [00:45] so please ask in a more appropriate venue, lol [00:45] * jamesrfla about the same a Hellow probably less [00:45] So do we just want to discuss the voting on the mailing list for now? [00:45] no, its been more than 3 months its 5 [00:45] Also, lol voting on voting [00:45] jamesrfla, we have a focus group :) [00:45] MontelEdwards: enough, please [00:45] MontelEdwards: Only team members can vote. EOD. [00:45] Bodsda +1 [00:46] yes, +1 Bodsda [00:46] Hellow: eod? [00:46] end of discussion [00:46] MontelEdwards: End Of Discussion [00:46] [VOTE] Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting [00:46] Please vote on: Discuss voting guidelines on mailing list and vote on it at next meeting. [00:46] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:46] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:46] can we get back ontopic please [00:46]