[00:26] <buntu_> joining
[00:35] <buntu_> how do i connect to xubuntu?
[00:50] <yodz-> Heyall, was wondering if anyone was able to tell me a fix for this wierd mouse lockup bug, cant select/alt tab from task to task when it happens.
[00:50] <yodz-> Happens after a random period of time, its like something doesnt let go of the mouse/keyboard events.
[00:52] <snakazi> sorry to bother you people
[00:52] <snakazi> but im looking for help
[00:53] <snakazi> im on xubuntu 6.06, when i try to upgrade it tells me that xubuntu desktop cannot be upgraded and failed to upgrade the entire distribution
[00:53] <snakazi> has anybody got an idea of  what the problem is ?
[00:54] <zoredache> what did you try to upgrade it too?
[00:54] <snakazi> i tried upgrading the entire distribution with the automatic tool
[00:55] <snakazi> and after  updating the channel it crashes
[00:55] <snakazi> then it throws me the message xubuntu desktop couldnt be upgraded
[00:55] <zoredache> I haven't used the tool, what release did it try to upgrade too?  6.10, or 8.04?  You would have to go straight to 8.04
[00:56] <snakazi> yeap thats rigth
[00:56] <snakazi> from 6.06 to hardy heron
[00:56] <zoredache> 6.06 is kinda on the old side, it might be easier to make a backup and then to do a clean reinstall
[00:56] <snakazi> i ve just installed it today
[00:56] <snakazi> an hour or 2 ago
[00:57] <snakazi> i had this xubuntu old cd i used
[00:57] <snakazi> i have a hardy kubuntu, and an ubuntu 8.10
[00:58] <snakazi> but cant get to update anything from them
[00:58] <snakazi> zoredache do you understand spanish ?
[00:59] <zoredache> no
[00:59] <snakazi> i ve installed xubunutu in spanish
[00:59] <zoredache> !spanish
[00:59] <snakazi> would it help to tell you exactly what the error  message said?
[00:59] <zoredache> probaby not...
[01:00] <snakazi> i would translate it before
[01:00] <zoredache> maybe someone is awake on that channel that could help
[01:00] <snakazi> cant install xubuntu-desktop
[01:01] <snakazi> the error message was in english
[01:01] <zoredache> personally, I would suggest you skip the gui tools, and instead try upgrading via the cli
[01:01] <jasonmchristos> how do i do file sharing in xubuntu?
[01:01] <snakazi> via the what zore ?
[01:01] <zoredache> !samba | jasonmchristos
[01:01] <zoredache> command line
[01:02] <jasonmchristos> i dont want samba
[01:02] <jasonmchristos> its to ubuntu
[01:02] <zoredache> who do you want to share with?
[01:02] <jasonmchristos> my ubuntu laptop
[01:02] <zoredache> you sharing from Linux to Linux?
[01:02] <jasonmchristos> yes
[01:02] <zoredache> nfs will work if you trust your network
[01:02] <jasonmchristos> i have my desktop xubuntu
[01:03] <zoredache> sshfs is a good choice if you don't need it to be fast
[01:03] <jasonmchristos> im going to stream movies
[01:03] <jasonmchristos> it has to be fast
[01:03] <zoredache> !nfs
[01:03] <jasonmchristos> thanks
[01:36] <jasonmchristos> ok its installed
[01:36] <jasonmchristos> how do i connect to it?
[01:36] <jasonmchristos> or how do i verify that it is sharing
[01:37] <jasonmchristos> zoredache: u there?
[01:42] <zoredache> did you read the link that was part of ubottu's answer?
[02:19] <DrLite> Is this where I'd go for support?
[02:19]  * DrLite found his sound went to hell
[02:27] <TheSheep> it's here
[02:27] <TheSheep> how did that happen?
[02:28] <DrLite> I muted it earlier today, and it never unmuted although it looks like it did.
[02:30] <DrLite> Also, solving this is urgent because I need it to drown out a torrent of rage and insults.
[02:31] <TheSheep> try opening a terminal and typing 'alsamixer' in it
[02:31] <DrLite> I did the windows thing and restarted, as well.
[02:31] <DrLite> I will, thanks.
[02:31] <TheSheep> then using that to make sure it's all unmuted
[02:31] <TheSheep> restarting/reinstalling usually doesn't fix things on linux :)
[02:31] <DrLite> It did for me once today.
[02:32] <DrLite> Wait, no it didn't.
[02:32] <DrLite> What is PCM?
[02:32] <DrLite> Because that was at 0
[02:32] <TheSheep> the main output
[02:32] <DrLite> ...thank you.
[02:34] <DrLite> Also, how do I change the balance?
[02:45] <TheSheep> right click on the panel, select 'add item', look for the volume plugin, drag it on your panel, then click on it
[02:45] <TheSheep> it should show you a mixer
[02:48] <DrLite> Thank you.
[02:48] <DrLite> You've allowed me to block out the sounds of madness.
[04:25] <box_alpha> Sup people
[04:25] <box_alpha> sup people
[04:25] <box_alpha> I have a xubuntu 9.04 CD and im trying to install xfce on my old computer which is running ubuntu. Can anyone help me with that please?
[06:09] <Laibsch> Can I somehow get xfce-terminal to display a smaller font in the current session?
[06:10] <Laibsch> for reference, the gnome Terminal has ctrl++ and ctrl+- for that
[06:15] <TheSheep> Laibsch: I don't think so
[06:15] <Laibsch> bummer
[06:15] <Laibsch> thanks
[07:26] <lsemple_> how com I can't play lossy mp3 files ?
[07:28] <lsemple_> with audacious or exaile..
[07:28] <lsemple_> maybe I don't know what I am doing
[07:32] <TheSheep> !mp3
[08:56] <maythem> Hi everyone
[08:57] <gabkdlly> hi
[08:58] <maythem> I have a problem regarding accessing the internet through xubuntu via MS ISA server. does anyone have a knowledge about that ?
[09:03] <meglo> Haha what is this silly 'Listen' music program in Jaunty? It is 'For GNOME' but it doesn't comply to the HIG, or even try to have a coherent interface, and the guy who codes it seems to be a loner w/ an @gmail.
[09:04] <meglo> also replacing gqview w/ that lxde image viewer makes me sad :(
[09:04] <meglo> But all the major user internet programs(web, email, irc, bittorrent) are all my favorites packaged right up.
[09:04] <meglo> Two thumbs up for Xubuntu :D
[09:06] <Gatton> trying out 9.04 live on usb right now. my fav xfce distro is zenwalk but xubuntu looks nice so far. and i'm a fan of the giant repos so hopefully everything will work ok :-)
[09:06] <Gatton> i never heard of that music player either meglo
[09:07] <meglo> Gatton: IIRC they had rhythmbox, I understand they don't want to copy all the gnome apps, but I think there might be better choices out there.
[09:07] <meglo> I haven't tried Banshee but I hear it is good or superior, and hooks in w/ last.fm/jamendo/etc
[09:07] <meglo> Listen is just LOL
[09:07] <Gatton> meglo, i was happy with bmpx but that was discontinued. rhythmbox works fine for me though so if i keep xubuntu i'll probably install that
[09:08] <meglo> Like a programmer trying to design a GUI.
[09:08] <meglo> (some can, but apparently this one not so much)
[09:09] <meglo> Also I'm surprised xubuntu hooks people up with this 'aumix' thing to play with the volume(or something). It opens up Terminal with some ncurses interface that I can't decipher at first look. Not very usable. Reminds me of Sun OS letting people 'configure' their window manager by click on a launcher that opened 'vi ~/.somethingrc' hahaha
[09:11] <Gatton> yea aumix is usually the first thing mentioned for sound questions. i thought pulseaudio was supposed to take care of all that?
[09:11] <meglo> Everything else is just fine and just beef w/ the xfce DE(can't drag and drop menu items onto toolbars, and can't edit the menu with a nice GUI configuration util)
[09:11] <meglo> Gatton: I never used aumix. I know the first thing people do is use amixer or alsamixer(ncurses frontend to amixer)
[09:12] <meglo> But this aumix deal I have no idea.
[09:12] <meglo> But xfce does provide a way to manipulate mixer setting with "Mixer" on the panel.
[09:12] <Gatton> lately on this laptop i haven't had to do that with most distros. pulse seems to correctly identify everything. i just have to manually add Master and PCM to the controls
[09:12] <meglo> So I'm not sure why this aumix thing exists
[09:12] <Gatton> hmm i said pulse but you're right xfce panel says it is alsa mixer. so i don't know then :-)
[09:13] <meglo> Gatton: eh things will get better. I don't like learning about things unless I have to. My friend had trouble with alsa/pulseaudio for a while, and ended up installing OSS.
[09:13] <meglo> Worked fine. This was on Hardy.
[09:13] <meglo> Gatton: I have no idea how linux audio works, it might be... eh whatever
[09:13] <Gatton> well i have Mint 7 on this hard drive right now and everything just works. so depending on how much tweaking is needed i may or may not be replacing it
[09:14] <meglo> I like to use mainline supported Ubuntu distros from Canonical because otherwise you aren't exactly suppose to take advantage of their forums, wiki, irc channel, mailing lists, or launchpad really.
[09:14] <meglo> You're in 'unsupported' land.
[09:15] <meglo> Also I don't care to experiment much anymore so I make sure I'm using something in the top 20 of distrowatch or 50 whatever
[09:15] <meglo> actually i never check distrowatch
[09:15] <meglo> i'm so lazy these days
[09:15] <meglo> but right now i have the flu so i'm kinda blabbing and feeling like i'm lazy
[09:15] <meglo> blah blah blah
[09:16] <Gatton> ahh i hope you have some good medication then :-)
[09:20] <meglo> There is only like one theme for xfce here that is 'dark'
[09:20] <meglo> all the other ones make my monitor look like a lightbulb
[09:20] <meglo> I hate staring at lightbulbs
[09:20] <Slonkie> xfce-look.org
[09:20] <meglo> Gatton: medication for flu?
[09:20] <meglo> Slonkie: yeah i'm sure there are good ones out there
[09:20] <meglo> buuuuuut for tonight
[09:20] <meglo> i'm just going to chill
[09:21] <meglo> gnome/kde/xfce-look probably would have come up my way if i bothered to search
[09:21] <meglo> thanks anywy
[09:22] <Gatton> meglo, yes. or at least something to ease your symptoms
[09:23] <meglo> Gatton: I'm not certain it is the flu. I worked doing some labor and over-exerted myself within three days doing that
[09:23] <meglo> after 3 years of not doing a thing
[09:23] <meglo> I knocked out my immune system and probably caught a cold
[09:24] <meglo> I'm just taking super-doses of vitamin C and some calcium to help absorb it
[09:24] <meglo> 2000mg of C vitamin a day
[09:24] <meglo> large glasses of water for hydration
[09:24] <meglo> lots of blankets, icepacks for forehead
[09:24] <meglo> sleeping
[09:24] <Gatton> ahh ok. hopefully that will help. linus pauling would approve :-)
[09:24] <meglo> even if i feel better i'll do that for another day and half or so
[09:25] <meglo> to completely knock out the virus
[09:25] <Gatton> good idea
[09:25] <meglo> Gatton: I'm not sure who linux pauling is ?
[09:26] <Gatton> he was a physicist who was a big advocate of vitamin C. he used to take thousands of milligrams of it a day
[09:26] <Gatton> i'm sorry. physicist should be chemist i believe
[09:33] <Laibsch> Is there any other terminal program apart from gnome-terminal that I could use in XFCE and that support dynamic resizing of the font?  It's a rather cool thing.
[09:48] <meglo> ah Gatton left
[09:48] <meglo> you don't get much benefit above 2000mg a day of vitamin C it seems from modern research
[10:02] <MikeChelen> Laibsch, what do you mean by dynamic resizing?
[10:03] <Laibsch> If you press Ctrl+- in Gnome-Terminal, the display font will get smaller and you get more text to display
[10:04] <Laibsch> MikeChelen: makes sense?
[10:04] <MikeChelen> Laibsch, ahh ok, i understand
[10:05] <MikeChelen> xfce4-terminal can adjust the font size, looks like there are no shortcut keys however
[10:10] <Laibsch> Oh, I guess that could be easily done, then
[10:11] <meglo> Oh shoot. I tried to install the nvidia binary blob, but the Jockey backend crashed and it wanted me to file a bug report. I was going to write up something in mousepad but pressed enter and closed the window :<
[10:11] <MikeChelen> Laibsch, im not sure, because i don't see any options for font size key shortcuts
[10:12] <meglo> It said something about restarting the backend... not sure what to do
[10:12] <meglo> i'll check any init.d scripts maybe?
[10:13] <Laibsch> MikeChelen: when I changed the font size in the pref, the display was dynamically resized, even while choosing the font size
[10:13] <Laibsch> now all that needs to be done (if it's not done, yet) is to hook that up with a keyboard shortcut
[10:13] <Laibsch> that should be reasonably easy
[10:14] <Laibsch> I was afraid that xfce-terminal did not support dynamic resizing of the font or any changes to font size at all
[10:15] <marcPV> hi there
[10:16] <marcPV> i installed another linux on a new partition on my laptop and now xubuntu cant  see that partition, anyone can help me please?
[10:16] <Slonkie> !fstab
[10:17] <Slonkie> Tried mounting it?
[10:18] <marcPV> let me read that, thanks (no, i dont see it on file manager so i cant mount it)
[10:19] <marcPV> by the way, gparted tell me that "The enclosing drive for the volume is locked"
[10:20] <MikeChelen> Laibsch, it definitely supports font resizing, however im not sure how to use it through a keyboard shortcut
[10:23] <marcPV> that fstab configuration is a bit hard for me...
[10:27] <Laibsch> MikeChelen: I don't think it is currently implemented, but I don't think it would be that hard to add, either
[10:27] <Laibsch> that is what I meant, low-hanging fruit for an RFE
[10:28] <MikeChelen> Laibsch, would be a nice feature to see, reminds me of firefox zoom in/out keyboard shortcuts :)
[11:42] <MikeChelen> anyone know if there is a search utility in xubuntu?
[11:42] <Slonkie> search like what?
[11:43] <Slonkie> Searching trough your local files?
[11:44] <gabkdlly> I see some search stuff under Accessories, but then again I also have gnome installed
[11:53] <Slonkie> xubuntu comes with catfish which can search trough local files
[12:18] <SiDi> !info libindicate1
[12:19] <SiDi> !info libindicate-dev
[12:25] <MikeChelen> Slonkie, for example to recursively find all files in a directory with a certain extension
[12:25] <MikeChelen> maybe catfish is what im looking for
[12:26] <Slonkie> I'd say so
[12:26] <SiDi> ls -R <foldername>  | grep extname
[12:27] <Slonkie> geek.....
[12:27] <Slonkie> :P
[12:27] <SiDi> if you want the folder where they are : ls -R XFCE/ | grep -E "(\.h)|(XFCE)"
[12:28] <SiDi> this for instance searches all .h files in my XFCE folder
[12:28] <gabkdlly> find -name \*.extname <foldername>
[12:28] <SiDi> meh
[12:30] <MikeChelen> what about simply "ls -R *.xcf" ?
[12:31] <SiDi> clever
[12:31] <MikeChelen> need to find how to sort by modification date though
[12:43] <gabkdlly> MikeChelen: that will not work, since your shell (rather than ls) will expand *.xcf
[12:45] <MikeChelen> oh hmmm
[12:53] <gabkdlly> MikeChelen: if you know your files have not been created or deleted in the past 24 hours, you can use locate
[12:54] <gabkdlly> locate is a bit faster since it reads entries out of a database, rather than actually doing the search
[12:56] <MikeChelen> gabkdlly, any idea if that will work over SSHFS?
[13:00] <gabkdlly> MikeChelen: by default, no, since sshfs is pruned in /etc/updatedb.conf
[13:00] <gabkdlly> but you can change that file to make the database include them
[13:01] <MikeChelen> gabkdlly, ah okay thanks
[13:03] <MikeChelen> gabkdlly, is it listed as shfs? the files are actually in an encfs mount, with the encrypted files existing in the sshfs directory
[13:06] <gabkdlly> MikeChelen: my guess is that they would be included then, since sshfs is not included in PRUNEPATHS
[13:06] <gabkdlly> and encfs is not included in PRUNEFS
[13:06] <gabkdlly> but keep in mind that the database is only updated once per day
[13:07] <gabkdlly> so if the encfs was not connected while the cron job was running, your files would not show up
[13:09] <MikeChelen> i'm pretty sure it has been, however the files aren't showing up in locate
[13:13] <MikeChelen> "find" would be okay if it would sort results by modification date
[13:17] <gabkdlly> MikeChelen: you can do some magic to accomplish this
[13:18] <gabkdlly> check out the -printf option to find
[13:18] <gabkdlly> you will have to lipe the output to "sort -n" though
[13:18] <gabkdlly> probably only worth the trouble if you are looking to do this with a script
[13:19] <MikeChelen> newp just need to find this 1 file :D
[13:19] <gabkdlly> :)
[13:20] <gabkdlly> the -atime option to find might do what you need
[13:20] <gabkdlly> check out the man page to find
[13:21] <MikeChelen> hmm yeah maybe, with a little trial & error since i dont recall the exact date
[13:24] <gabkdlly> the xfce terminal GUI used to allow me to move the cursor with my mouse's scrollwheel
[13:24] <gabkdlly> I miss this feature
[13:26] <gabkdlly> then again, I am still using intrepid, so perhaps this feature has returned in jaunty
[13:27] <MikeChelen> the wheel seems to scroll the window, although not necessarily the cursor
[13:28] <gabkdlly> yes, for example if I want to scroll through a document with an editor/viewer I started in the terminal
[13:30] <MikeChelen> hmm, doesn't seem work in vi
[13:30] <meglo> xfce4.6's workspace switcher doesn't account for resolution changes when presenting a mini-view of windows inside the virtual desktops. I go from 1280x1024 to 1024x768 and the WorkSpace Switcher has the virtual desktops appear bigger than the maximized windows inside them.
[13:31] <gabkdlly> ah, so at least I am not the only one :)
[13:31] <MikeChelen> or nano
[13:31] <meglo> I'm extremely upset about this and am thinking about throwing away all my computers.
[13:31] <MikeChelen> maybe there is a config setting somewhere that controlls scroll wheel behavior?
[13:31] <meglo> Actually no but do I really have to hand edit an xml file to configure my menu?
[13:32] <MikeChelen> meglo, what does the menu have to do with the workspace switcher?
[13:32] <meglo> MikeChelen: Nothing which is why I wrote that prior thing I said off as a joke with "Actually no but..."
[13:32] <meglo> heh
[13:32] <gabkdlly> bye all
[13:32] <meglo> MikeChelen: to add launchers to the panel I have to seek out the binaries in my /, and same for the icons it seems.
[13:33] <MikeChelen> well i assumed you were referring to the "throwing away all my computers" as a joke :P
[13:33] <meglo> I can't drag and drop menu items onto the toolbar for easy access :[
[13:34] <meglo> Right clicking xfce-menu and clicking properties should open up a menu editor like gnome has. But then again I never considered xfce a real DE and it needs many many gnome components to be workable as in xubuntu.
[13:34] <MikeChelen> meglo, one alternative for launchers is to right click the panel, add new item -> launcher, then you can click & drag items from desktop or filemanager (though not the menu)
[13:34] <MikeChelen> into the launcher window
[13:34] <meglo> How do I add icons/items to the desktop first off, so I can then drag them onto the launcher window?
[13:35] <meglo> I assume the filemanager way is navigating /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/x11/bin or whatever
[13:35] <meglo> then looking for the icon in /usr/share/pixmaps/oh/my/god/this/is/stupid
[13:36] <meglo> If I had money I'd hire a developer to work on xubuntu integration who would throw a massive amount of usability patches upstream to make this stuff work way better.
[13:36] <meglo> But as it stands now it works fine as I feel I'm competent enough to work around limitations.
[13:37] <meglo> But I'm really, really, really lazy.
[13:38] <meglo> I'm going to stick with this because it certainly has to get better and I'm patient. Can't wait for xfce 5.
[13:38] <meglo> Especially if GNOME is going to be rewritten in Mono is Miguel De Microsoft has to do it all by himself.
[13:38] <meglo> :>
[13:38] <meglo> in mono even if*
[13:40] <MikeChelen> yeah i think the menu is one place xfce could improve
[13:40] <MikeChelen> in alot of other cases, the workarounds are more practical
[13:40] <meglo> and launcher apps for quick access. and possibly having a larger preset of key-shortcuts
[13:40] <MikeChelen> all the icons are in one place, so you don't have to hunt around for them
[13:40] <meglo> I don't want to read the developer docs to see what bindings I can use to switch virtual desktops.
[13:41] <meglo> MikeChelen: except when you have core apps you want fast access to, like how the firefox icon is presented to you on the panel when you first boot up xubuntu
[13:41] <meglo> then the user thinks "oh cool, you can have your favorite apps there instead of the desktop for easy access"
[13:41] <MikeChelen> you can use compiz for desktop keyboard shortcuts as well
[13:42] <meglo> But then that defeats the purpose of running a lightweight xfce wm
[13:42] <meglo> I hate compositioning too
[13:42] <gabkdlly|afk> theoretically, I think you could use the gnome panel under XFCE, though I have never tried this ;)
[13:42] <meglo> I don't want to get this stuff all hacky
[13:43] <meglo> I went back to *ubuntu from BSD because I just couldn't bother to care anymore.
[13:43] <MikeChelen> the compiz effects can actually be pretty lightweight for system performance, because they offload everything to the graphics chip
[13:44] <meglo> MikeChelen: except my graphics chip might not have accelerated drivers, as many other people could have problems with.
[13:44] <MikeChelen> its not too difficult to add apps from the menu to a launcher, it just takes 2-3 steps when it should only take 1
[13:44] <meglo> You can't count on that, xfce's wm or whatever provides keyboard shortcuts already, can't we just improve on that?
[13:44] <MikeChelen> meglo, the question of whether your system supports compiz is another one
[13:45] <meglo> MikeChelen: for someone who knows what they're doing.
[13:45] <meglo> as i suspected...
[13:45] <meglo> I right click the panel, click Add New Items...
[13:45] <meglo> select Launcher
[13:45] <meglo> +Add
[13:45] <MikeChelen> yup
[13:45] <meglo> Command? Lets click this folder by this input box...
[13:45] <meglo> OMG WHAT IS THIS CRAP
[13:45] <meglo> *quickly closes window because user doesnt want to break system*
[13:46] <MikeChelen> to find command from existing menu items, go to applications > settings > menu
[13:46] <meglo> why can't they just import listed programs from the xml file and present those with icons, or /something/
[13:47] <meglo> MikeChelen: I can figure this out myself, and give all my commands nice arguments and play with the icons in imagemagick to apply different effects to them as recognition between launching xchat itself or 'xchat -a' to avoid connecting to networks and whatever
[13:47] <MikeChelen> sounds good to me :)
[13:47] <meglo> I'm not sure about all the distros out there
[13:48] <meglo> what are the main competitors to Ubuntu?
[13:48] <meglo> Mandriva?
[13:48] <meglo> It seems the only worthwhile competent linux-on-the-desktop is Ubuntu, but only Ubuntu+GNOME.
[13:48] <meglo> For the real average user.
[13:48] <meglo> KDE4 is really a mess right now.
[13:49] <meglo> XFCE really isn't a DE. Too young to be a women too old to be a girl.
[13:49] <meglo> Too bloated to be a window manager too small to be a desktop environment.
[13:49] <meglo> Yeah I honestly really dislike computers sometimes
[13:49] <meglo> I'm not have any problems at all
[13:50] <meglo> i keep forgetting I have a flu right now
[13:50] <meglo> sorry :(
[13:53] <MikeChelen> Fedora is good, Debian is popular too
[13:53] <MikeChelen> Ubuntu is based on Debian though
[13:54] <MikeChelen> what is wrong with KDE4? been meaning to try it
[13:54] <MikeChelen> i know some people still run Redhat and openSUSE
[13:54] <meglo> I tried Fedora 11
[13:54] <meglo> They pack so much beta stuff into it just to be bleeding edge.
[13:54] <MikeChelen> centos is also highly regarded
[13:54] <meglo> Why not run a rolling release distro like arch? You'll probably deal with just as much or even fewer problems.
[13:55] <MikeChelen> is kde4 unstable?
[13:55] <meglo> CentOS is for a server
[13:55] <meglo> MikeChelen: It sure is.
[13:55] <MikeChelen> yeah but some people still like it as desktop, depends on the type of user
[13:55] <meglo> KDE3 was too. I love that bomb symbol.
[13:55] <meglo> OpenSuSe I don't know about.
[13:55] <MikeChelen> my favorite was always debian + gnome, which is the basis for ubuntu
[13:55] <meglo> Debian is good, I was considering running it but again I'm getting p. lazy and I like that ubuntu is just debian as a tweaked and fine-tuned desktop system
[13:56] <meglo> MikeChelen: yeah but Debian doesn't have dependable release cycles like Canonical does
[13:56] <meglo> I mean, you could try to compare it to LTS, but it is still 'when its ready'
[13:56] <MikeChelen> suse is supposed to be good if you want a lot of flexibility under the hood
[13:56] <MikeChelen> meglo, true but in some cases that doesn't really matter
[13:56] <meglo> Ok we're talking about distros now. What are Desktop Linux distros that compete head-to-head with ubuntu.
[13:57] <MikeChelen> for someone that wants rock-solid desktop and isn't so concerned about the latest version apps
[13:57] <meglo> They could run Ubuntu LTS. Probably get a longer support cycle than debian.
[13:57] <MikeChelen> debian, fedora, pclinuxos, opensuse
[13:58] <meglo> debian is not desktop oriented, it still uses debian-installer(which I love)
[13:58] <meglo> fedora is for tinkerers
[13:58] <MikeChelen> support isn't the only consideration, generally Debian stable version has been more thoroughly vetted to contain no bugs than even Ubuntu LTS
[13:58] <meglo> who like cutting edge stuff
[13:58] <meglo> pclinuxos i have no idea what that is
[13:58] <MikeChelen> depends who the desktop user is
[13:58] <meglo> opensuse I think I remember their installer being something for corporate OEM deployments
[13:58] <meglo> way too much for a user desktop
[13:59] <MikeChelen> pclinuxos is meant to be user friendly and comes installed with oem
[13:59] <meglo> MikeChelen: oh just maybe 90% of your average windows users.
[13:59] <MikeChelen> meglo, that is a different classification than all desktop users
[13:59] <meglo> Ubuntu reaches towards this, and the only one I think you pointed out seems to be pclinuxos.
[13:59] <MikeChelen> fedora has seemed quit stable to me even as of a few years ago
[13:59] <meglo> But what I really think we'll see are vendor tailored linux distros for their mass produced netbooks.
[14:00] <MikeChelen> there are a bunch of other ubuntu derivatives such as linux mint
[14:00] <meglo> MikeChelen: They acknowledge that it is unstable and cutting edge, 'so be prepared to fix a few things if you want to run this way'
[14:00] <MikeChelen> yeah thats what dell has been doing, however when they break updating from main repos it causes problems
[14:01] <MikeChelen> meglo, its a relative description, windows crashes very often for me yet contains no such honesty
[14:01] <meglo> when I cancel trying to add a launcher it leaves unconfigured launcher icons in my system tray
[14:01] <meglo> or near it
[14:01] <meglo> actually does xfce have a definitive system tray
[14:01] <meglo> 'Notification Area'
[14:01] <meglo> ah ok
[14:01] <meglo> FreeDesktop.org compat
[14:02] <meglo> how about switching out nm-applet for wicd?
[14:02] <MikeChelen> hmm idk
[14:02] <meglo> does nm-applet let you have as much control over your networking as wicd these days
[14:02] <meglo> it loves to autoconfigure everything and put your samba shares up for everyone on the LAN
[14:02] <meglo> shut down samba
[14:02] <meglo> change mac
[14:03] <meglo> connect with wicd
[14:03] <meglo> VPN out
[14:04] <meglo> nm-applet sorta sucks, IIRC they don't care about supposedly 'power user' features of wicd(like making fully sure you have control over connecting to networks)
[14:04] <meglo> Network-Manager people I mean
[14:04] <meglo> nm-applet is just some gnome-frontend i think
[14:04] <meglo> oh wait
[14:04] <meglo> it isn't nm-applet anymore
[14:04] <meglo> err
[14:05] <MikeChelen> hmm i never saw samba shares being created automatically
[14:06] <meglo> MikeChelen: for example on some networks I share files publicly. On other ones I might want to boot my machine carefully and shut down services before connecting to a network.
[14:06] <meglo> I don't remember too much about this anymore because I haven't used wifi in years
[14:06] <meglo> but some people just suggested 'boot into a lower runlevel and do that stuff first'
[14:06] <meglo> and i think i'm getting a bit sick again
[14:06] <meglo> :(
[14:08] <MikeChelen> oh okay i see, i haven't tried that because i only use wifi on networks which i admin
[14:09] <meglo> I act sorta vagrant so I don't plan to always have my own administrated networks.
[14:09] <meglo> It is just some greasy bearded guy in the library typing on his netbook.
[14:10] <meglo> Paranoid about other users. What if a blackhat dropped by our little town? :O
[14:10] <meglo> reading openbsd-misc does stuff to you
[14:11] <meglo> Oh I also don't give a CRAP about proper admin beyond a firewall and only secure internal LAN configuration of the gateway
[14:11] <meglo> so i got like a modem/router combo from my ISP that runs embedded linux and you can connect to it w/ telnet
[14:11] <meglo> or use the web interface with https(not sure how they squeezed that in there)
[14:11] <meglo> and that is basically my whole network
[14:11] <meglo> except this switch I found in the trash so my dad could use it too
[14:12] <meglo> 25$ 256Kbps Symmetric DSL
[14:12] <meglo> Best deal you can find around here.
[14:12] <MikeChelen> yeah on public wifi its probably a good idea not to have open shares
[14:12] <meglo> Oh, except for those 15$ 1.5mbit DSL offers that last 12 months and want you to install Windows Live and sign up with a more expensive phone service
[14:12] <MikeChelen> since theres no way to tell who is on the network, of if its properly secured in any way
[14:12] <MikeChelen> lol
[14:12] <meglo> MikeChelen: my open shares are stuff I want everyone to have sometimes
[14:13] <meglo> free books and texts
[14:13] <meglo> buuut sometimes you don't want that share popping up on some people's wifi
[14:13] <meglo> because you don't want them to know someone is bumming their internet
[14:13] <MikeChelen> well you could start & start the samba server when you move between networks
[14:13] <meglo> MikeChelen: there is other stuff too tho yeah
[14:13] <MikeChelen> yah just thinking what is simplest
[14:14] <meglo> I'd like a nice applet that would have the control of wicd but let me easily setup a VPN
[14:14] <meglo> so NFS/NTP/millions_of_other_daemons don't have their stuff sniffed
[14:15] <meglo> I think I might use smb client to connect to their shared printer and print them out a thank you card with my total bandwidth usage and how much i appreciated it
[14:15] <MikeChelen> lol
[14:16] <meglo> but then again it is sorta obvious who it is when you got this balding greasy beard dude with this laptop
[14:16] <MikeChelen> bandwidth is so cheap, probably the paper & ink will cost more :P
[14:16] <meglo> no i'm not trying to look like rms
[14:16] <meglo> this just happens
[14:17] <meglo> how do you properly clean a keyboard
[14:17] <meglo> pop out all the keys with a butter knife
[14:17] <meglo> get a bowl of soap and water and put them in...
[14:17] <meglo> q-tips with water + soap on the actual board
[14:17] <meglo> I wish I had one of those roll-up keyboards
[14:17] <meglo> but like those ergonomic MS type
[14:17] <meglo> i hear that can help
[14:17] <MikeChelen> yeah pretty much
[14:18] <meglo> you know those roll up keyboards
[14:18] <meglo> they should make one of htose
[14:18] <MikeChelen> use some compressed air after taking out the keys
[14:18] <meglo> in the ergonomic form
[14:18] <meglo> ah i don't have any
[14:18] <MikeChelen> yeah i love ergo, can't go back to regular :D
[14:18] <meglo> MikeChelen: what model of ergo do you have/
[14:18] <meglo> ?
[14:18] <MikeChelen> the tactile response the rollups suck though
[14:18] <meglo> i never was able to buy one
[14:18] <meglo> MikeChelen: I don't need tactile response that bad
[14:18] <MikeChelen> microsoft natural ergonomic 4000
[14:19] <meglo> how much was that?
[14:19] <MikeChelen> not bad, somewhere under $50
[14:19] <meglo> nice
[14:19] <MikeChelen> probably around $30 oem
[14:19] <meglo> is that really the best keyboard ergonomics has to offer
[14:19] <meglo> or is there better design out there
[14:19] <meglo> i'm kidding about the old/balding/beard stuff
[14:19] <meglo> i'm 19 and want to get a good keyboard to avoid arthritis in the future
[14:19] <MikeChelen> when the keys have short travel distance it can make your fingers more tired
[14:20] <MikeChelen> lol
[14:20] <MikeChelen> its my favorite so far, idk if there are any better ones
[14:20] <meglo> i saw
[14:20] <MikeChelen> at least for consumer prices
[14:20] <meglo> (i bet it is expensive if sold at all)
[14:20] <meglo> some kind of glove keyboard thing
[14:20] <MikeChelen> there are some awesome vertical keyboards that are kind of pricey
[14:21] <meglo> vertical keyboards?
[14:21] <meglo> acccckk
[14:21] <meglo> where do i learn about keyboards
[14:21] <meglo> is there an enthusiast site/
[14:21] <meglo> ?
[14:21] <MikeChelen> this what id like: http://www.it-your-way.co.uk/_wp_generated/wp9c35dc83.gif
[14:21] <MikeChelen> not that i know of, there are some ergo hardware sites, but they are usually very small with only a few reviews each
[14:22] <meglo> An "adjustable split keyboard" has the keyboard split into several independent pieces, so the angle between them can be easily changed. Either of these types of keyboards may include elevated sections at various angles.
[14:22] <meglo> Haha
[14:22] <meglo> So these keyboards are like transformer robots sorta
[14:22] <MikeChelen> haha yeah
[14:22] <MikeChelen> they are still like $100-200 though
[14:22] <meglo> oooh vertical keyboards
[14:22] <meglo> :<
[14:22] <MikeChelen> probably worthwhile in professional workstations
[14:22] <meglo> 100$ for a keyboard was what best buy was wanting to sell this crappy USB one for
[14:22] <meglo> probably worthwhile if you're going to spend your life typing away at keys
[14:23] <meglo> i fell like i should stop typing RIGHT NOW
[14:23] <meglo> and get something better
[14:23] <MikeChelen> yah well half of best buy's stuff is crazy overpriced
[14:23] <meglo> before i get crippled
[14:23] <MikeChelen> grab any of the ergo ones, they are not too expensive
[14:23] <meglo> as a linux user do you bother trying to get those hotkeys to do anything
[14:23] <MikeChelen> the import things are split and angled
[14:23] <MikeChelen> actually they all work fine
[14:24] <meglo> i hear you can catch their control codes with some x<something> program and bind them to functions
[14:24] <MikeChelen> i dont use them too often though
[14:24] <meglo> waaaaat
[14:24] <meglo> MikeChelen: import things?
[14:24] <meglo> sorry i'm not familiar
[14:24] <MikeChelen> *important
[14:24] <meglo> split/angled yes, are they adjustable?
[14:24] <meglo> oh
[14:24] <MikeChelen> naw, no cheap adjustable yet
[14:24] <meglo> yes split/angled
[14:24] <meglo> how much are adjustables?
[14:24] <MikeChelen> this one has a single clip on base which helps with the angle though
[14:25] <MikeChelen> i have not seen them for under $100, but haven't looked in a while
[14:25] <meglo> hmmm
[14:25] <MikeChelen> also might find deals on ebay or such
[14:25] <meglo> so the adjustable ones are in the same price range as the verticals?
[14:25] <meglo> Yeah I don't have a method to buy online... hmmm
[14:26] <MikeChelen> yeah well at least all the ones i have seen, because they adjust to be vertical
[14:27] <MikeChelen> even getting a regular ergo keyboard makes a huge difference
 Hello everyone, I was wondering if somone could suggest a good ergonomic keyboard to help with muscle strain. If it should have features like hotbuttons/scrollwheels then they should be compatible with Ubuntu or workable with minor modification of the system. Would anyone know of a good model?
[14:27] <MikeChelen> same with ergo mouse, this is the one i have: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergonomics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/
[14:27] <meglo> Just asked that in Ubuntu for more input
[14:27] <meglo> Wow they have ergo mice too
[14:27] <MikeChelen> i wouldn't worry too much about ubuntu compatibility
[14:28] <meglo> I would, I don't want to have a bunch of useless flashy features
[14:28] <MikeChelen> because comfort is more important than hotkeys imho
[14:28] <meglo> yeah
[14:28] <meglo> hmmm
[14:28] <meglo> MikeChelen: does your scroll wheel on the keyboard work?
[14:28] <MikeChelen> guess it depends what you like to use
[14:28] <meglo> on xfce/xorg/xubuntu?
[14:29] <MikeChelen> hmm i dont think so
[14:29] <MikeChelen> i think it worked in gnome though
[14:29] <meglo> That would be a very cool feature
[14:29] <meglo> hotkeys + scroll wheel
[14:29] <MikeChelen> honestly i never really bothered it though
[14:29] <meglo> I could use a DE GUI without touching the mouse too much
[14:29] <meglo> hmmmmm
[14:29] <MikeChelen> i dont like to take my fingers off home keys when typing
[14:30] <meglo> people don't like taking their hands off their keyboards when they're computing
[14:30] <MikeChelen> i dont mind switching back and forth, because both kb and mouse are ergo
[14:30] <meglo> so they start using tiling window managers like awesome, ion3, and ratpoison or stumpwm
[14:30] <meglo> and that is ridiculous
[14:30] <MikeChelen> there is alot which can be done with keyboard shortcuts that dont require movement from home keys
 meglo: ##hardware may be a better place to ask (or even #ubuntu-offtopic), most keyboards Just Work™ with Ubuntu/Linux
[14:30] <meglo> Haha
[14:30] <meglo> In the same way most soundcards 'Just Work' with linux
[14:31] <meglo> (except surround sound, or hardware mixing, or spdif, or or or)
[14:31] <MikeChelen> i figure if i have to move to hit a special shortcut key, i might as well use the mouse
[14:31] <MikeChelen> yeah well at least the basic features work
[14:31] <MikeChelen> but it does take some research to find out about advanced features
[14:32] <meglo> if you map your ctrl key to your caps lock, you can have your left pinky on your home row hit that and have tons of combinations of commands to use in order to have rebindable shortcut keys
[14:32] <MikeChelen> although iirc everything did work okay in gnome without special effort
[14:32] <meglo> hmmmm
[14:32] <meglo> Well I'm pawning a bunch of stuff
[14:32] <MikeChelen> i can reach left ctrl without moving my hands
[14:32] <meglo> to get a cellphone with better prepaid, a bus ticket, etc
[14:33] <MikeChelen> plus & shift, so between that there are alot of possible combos
[14:33] <meglo> might pawn enough to get a comfortable keyboard
[14:33] <meglo> oh do they sell ergonomic keyboards + mice?
[14:33] <MikeChelen> if you really want something budget there are some decent options
[14:33] <meglo> MikeChelen: you use your pinky to hit left control?
[14:33] <meglo> You're going to get emacs pinky
[14:33] <meglo> rebind that to capslock
[14:33] <meglo> :O
[14:33] <MikeChelen> yeah, but its usually more expensive, and the combo vertical mice are not as good as 3m's
[14:33] <meglo> MikeChelen: Well those budget options have to be available at major retailers
[14:33] <MikeChelen> ahaha
[14:34] <MikeChelen> thats more difficult, i do all ordering online
[14:34] <meglo> or I have to have massive luck at finding them at pawn shops or thrift shops
[14:34] <MikeChelen> why cant you purchase online?
[14:34] <meglo> no credit, no bank account, no paypal
[14:34] <meglo> and I don't want them either
[14:34] <MikeChelen> go to any 7-11 and get a prepaid credit card
[14:34] <meglo> like I don't want a car or a house or a wife or children
[14:34] <meglo> and have it delivered to my place and have it stolen by the neighbors
[14:34] <MikeChelen> if its the only way to get the proper computer hardware...
[14:35] <meglo> and if it doesn't work I have to RMA it instead of taking it back to the store and getting a new one instantly
[14:35] <meglo> or being able to touch and feel it at the store
[14:35] <MikeChelen> hmm, can you have them hold it at the post office for pickup?
[14:35] <meglo> MikeChelen: not sure
[14:35] <meglo> But it isn't that big of deal
[14:35] <MikeChelen> i mean, if you can find a good cheap keyboard at a store, great
[14:36] <meglo> I plan on getting my computers super cheap from places like salvation army of give-aways from other people
[14:36] <meglo> haha
[14:36] <MikeChelen> but if they dont have any then i dont know what else to suggest
[14:36] <meglo> and digging parts out of trash cans
[14:36] <meglo> MikeChelen: There is probably a cheap one somewhere around this city
[14:36] <meglo> You've turned me onto the idea
[14:36] <meglo> within a month I hope to have an ergo
[14:36] <MikeChelen> if they happen to have ergo keyboards then that would be great, but i still think its worth forking out 20 bucks to save your hands :P
[14:37] <meglo> oh 20 bucks would be fine
[14:37] <meglo> also
[14:37] <meglo> you linked to this: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergonomics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/
[14:37] <meglo> it has some infrared or bluetooth adapter?
[14:37] <meglo> is there a driver for that in linux?
[14:37] <meglo> does it work?
[14:37] <MikeChelen> yah i think tis bluetooth
[14:37] <meglo> and you just plug it in and it works
[14:37] <meglo> right?
[14:37] <MikeChelen> i have the older wired version, but it should
[14:37] <meglo> Hrmmmmm
[14:38] <MikeChelen> bluetooth is pretty well supported these days
[14:38] <meglo> Well there is always google
[14:38] <meglo> I shy away from mobile/bluetooth and all that :<
[14:38] <meglo> I liked my ethernet and CRTs and towers :(
[14:38] <meglo> (they are way cheaper and easier to replace)
[14:38] <MikeChelen> this is the model keyboard i used to have, it is quite good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109028R
[14:39] <meglo> thanks for the link
[14:39] <MikeChelen> $17 + s/h
[14:39] <meglo> oh but brb one second, excuse me :>
[14:39] <MikeChelen> i wish my mouse were wireless, since i dont use it for gaming anyway
[14:39] <MikeChelen> sure sure
[14:48] <crazygir> how might I configure/mute a system's internal speaker in xubuntu.. leaving everything else
[14:48] <meglo> MikeChelen: yeah but don't wireless mice need batteries
[14:49] <meglo> i hate that
[14:49] <MikeChelen> im sure you can get the wired version if you prefer
[14:49] <MikeChelen> i dont mind batteries depending on if they are standard type and long they last
[14:49] <meglo> crazygir: Xubuntu probably can't do that for you. You should ask in ##linux or so because that is done from command line. I recall it being easy, but I don't know the commands anymore.
[14:50] <meglo> crazygir: Xfce*** can't do that for you. But you certainly can turn it off if you get the right info in xubuntu.
[14:50] <crazygir> thanks :)
[14:52] <MikeChelen> crazygir, "sudo rmmod pcspkr" or "xset b off" from command line
[14:52] <crazygir> THANK YOU :)
[14:53] <crazygir> idiots in linux say it isn't possible.. and gave me windows-types of answers
[14:53] <MikeChelen> lol
[14:53] <MikeChelen> there is some way to make the rmmod pcspkr permanent too
[14:54] <MikeChelen> see here: http://blog.jerodsanto.net/2008/05/debian-disable-sytem-beep/
[14:54] <crazygir> yea, how would you remove the module from the "auto load
[14:54] <crazygir> MikeChelen: heh.. my onboard speaker is competing with my desk-top speakers ;)
[14:54] <crazygir> thanks for the help MikeChelen
[14:55] <MikeChelen> theres a way to do this in ubuntu through the gui, however not sure how in xubuntu
[14:55] <crazygir> mmm
[14:55] <MikeChelen> crazygir, lol yeah that can be annoying, always one of the first things i do on fresh installs :D
[14:55] <crazygir> probably a gnome/xfce thing
[14:55] <MikeChelen> glad it worked out!
[14:55] <crazygir> hah.. actually it didn't
[14:55] <MikeChelen> yup it is, the option might still exist somewhere, just cant find it
[14:55] <crazygir> fsck
[14:56] <MikeChelen> lol oh now
[14:56] <MikeChelen> *oh no
[14:56] <crazygir> hrm
[14:56] <MikeChelen> did you try xset b off?
[14:56] <MikeChelen> maybe check the sound mixer and see if your onboard speaker sound card is listed
[14:57] <MikeChelen> it could be an issue with your hardware, in that plugging in external speakers are not disabling the internal ones properly
[14:59] <crazygir> alsamixer wasn't any help either
[14:59] <crazygir> yea
[15:00] <crazygir> I'll have to check the bios
[15:00] <crazygir> thanks for the help :)
[15:35] <MikeChelen> sure, it miqht require manually disconnecting the internal speakers
[16:32] <meglo> MikeChelen: i just had an emotional breakdown
[16:32] <meglo> thats about it
[16:32] <meglo> not sure why im saying this
[16:32] <meglo> but yeah
[18:53] <slow-motion> hi
[18:56] <nicklas_> hello
[21:24] <Salix_> Is there a way in 9.04 to put "switch user" on the lougout popup dialogue (as it was in 8.04)?
[21:55] <Salix_> Is there a way in 9.04 to put "switch user" on the lougout popup dialogue (as it was in 8.04)?
[23:37] <cody> im having problems with adobe
[23:38] <cody> it wont let me click allow or deny for my camera/mic
[23:38] <cody> anyone know how to fix this?
[23:40] <TheSheep> maybe ask the guys from adobe?
[23:42] <TheSheep> it' not even part of xubuntu
[23:43] <cody> I know but I never had a problem with it in windows so I figured maybe it was a common problem
[23:48] <TheSheep> adobe has a lot of different applications, which one are you having a problem with exactly?
[23:48] <TheSheep> photoshop? acrobat?
[23:49] <cody> flash
[23:50] <cody> my brother is in iraq
[23:50] <TheSheep> !flash
[23:50] <cody> so we use a website to videochat
[23:50] <cody> and you have to allow the site to use your camera
[23:50] <cody> and when I get the the allow part it wont let me click
[23:51] <TheSheep> your camera works otherwise?
[23:51] <cody> yes
[23:52] <Shiandar> Okay, I have an installation of Xubuntu about a year old.  The video card died, and I have to use a spare one for now.  I know the card works because it's just fine on a different machine with the same install.  But I don't know why the resolution stinks even after activating the proprietary drivers.
[23:54] <Shiandar> Would burning and installing the latest release just "fix it?"