| LaserJock | Lns: the problem with red hat's tools are they are fairly red hat-specific | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| Lns | LaserJock: sure, but that's the case for any distro mostly | 00:16 |
| Lns | no reason to avoid making it more distro agnostic | 00:16 |
| LaserJock | sure, it just makes it non-trivial to use their stuff | 00:16 |
| Lns | unless people put the pressure on them to split up parts of the app so others can use it | 00:17 |
| LaserJock | i.e. I believe the Desktop Team has already looked at it and said it was iffy if it'd be worth using over starting from scratch | 00:17 |
| Lns | jeez...that's too bad | 00:17 |
| Lns | well at least we can use their UI? =) | 00:17 |
| LaserJock | long term it sounded like maybe that's what will end up happening (using their tool) | 00:18 |
| nubae | most opensuse stuff is totally gpl | 00:18 |
| nubae | have u looked at some of their stuff? | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | but it was going to take more work than the Desktop Team had | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | yes | 00:18 |
| nubae | I know its kinda integrated with yast | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | not me personally | 00:18 |
| nubae | but user managament might be able to be ripped out | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | but I've talked with people who've looked at it | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | and Yast was worse than Fedora's stuff for being distro-specific | 00:18 |
| LaserJock | the question might be how much we actually need | 00:19 |
| nubae | I believe that... it works so well, it has to be reallly tied into the system | 00:19 |
| LaserJock | if we want to reuse lots of code then it makes sense | 00:19 |
| LaserJock | but if we only want a small part it's maybe more trouble than it's worth | 00:19 |
| LaserJock | either way it's not trivial but really needs to be worked on | 00:19 |
| nubae | though yast used to be horrible, but one of the great things is its usable from teh command line as much as from the gui | 00:19 |
| nubae | we'd need something like that for ubuntu... a terminal window based thingy a la midnight commander | 00:20 |
| nubae | or gui based | 00:20 |
| nubae | that way it works great for server and desktop environments | 00:21 |
| LaserJock | right yes | 00:21 |
| LaserJock | that's why you have backend scripts/library | 00:21 |
| LaserJock | and then you can have either GUI or CLI UI | 00:21 |
| nubae | the real problem comes with integration with 3rd party stuff though like ldap and samba | 00:21 |
| nubae | both of which are pretty much required | 00:22 |
| LaserJock | yep | 00:22 |
| nubae | and both of which are horrible with ubuntu | 00:22 |
| Lns | well the thing is there's no "standard" for ldap groups, thats why you have so many different implementations | 00:22 |
| nubae | I mean really really horrible | 00:22 |
| LaserJock | Users and Groups is not great for that at all | 00:22 |
| nubae | yeah but both redhat and novell seem to have done a good job | 00:22 |
| Lns | any gui attempt to be completely general would fail at the hands of "you might as well craft your own from the shell" | 00:22 |
| nubae | just picking one works ok I think | 00:22 |
| LaserJock | yes, they have the luxury of having paid peiole | 00:23 |
| LaserJock | *people | 00:23 |
| nubae | sure but if their stuff is gpl, it can be copied and reused | 00:23 |
| Lns | well it doesn't necessarily help the overall community when you tie your tools to your distro..but whatareyagonnado i guess | 00:23 |
| LaserJock | except it's often distro-specific | 00:23 |
| nubae | I thik there its just a vanity thing... ubuntu wants to do its own thing | 00:23 |
| LaserJock | we have the GPL'd software | 00:23 |
| Lns | nubae: nah, *everyone* wants to do their own thing | 00:23 |
| nubae | sure, I'm just saying thats not always a good thing | 00:24 |
| nubae | reinventing the damn wheel all the time | 00:24 |
| LaserJock | the Ubuntu Server Team is looking a lot at ldap/samba I believe | 00:24 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it sucks to have to keep doing this stuff over and over | 00:24 |
| LaserJock | part of that whole "Linux is choice" bit | 00:24 |
| Lns | if only there were GNU gui tools | 00:25 |
| Lns | of course they'd probably all be written in the oldest widget set imaginable ;) | 00:25 |
| LaserJock | ncurses | 00:25 |
| Lns | remember linuxconf? | 00:25 |
| Lns | i'd favor ncurses over gui | 00:26 |
| LaserJock | I like gui's :-) | 00:27 |
| LaserJock | or just plain CLI | 00:27 |
| LaserJock | I never really got into curses stuff very much | 00:27 |
| LaserJock | granted most of my "UI" development has been curses ;-) | 00:28 |
| nubae | ncurses and gui | 00:28 |
| nubae | why choose? | 00:29 |
| LaserJock | my lovely data acquisition program is curses + pgplot | 00:29 |
| Lns | The catch 22 is, once you have a 'universal gui' you become monolithic in nature, and that hinders development of new, possibly better ways of doing things | 00:29 |
| LaserJock | you don't have to be universal | 00:29 |
| LaserJock | just flexible | 00:29 |
| nubae | damn damn... have to wake up in 3 hours... train ride at 5 in the morning :-( | 00:29 |
| nubae | laters.... | 00:29 |
| LaserJock | nubae: cya | 00:29 |
| Lns | hahaha, by nubae =) | 00:29 |
| Lns | bye* | 00:29 |
| Lns | LaserJock: I guess so, huh.. it's all about 'parting out' the functions so anyone can get to them | 00:30 |
| LaserJock | I think a lot of it is looking at what you're doing and especially the assumptions you're making | 00:30 |
| Lns | yeah..cater to your environment | 00:31 |
| LaserJock | if you're doing something and you need to make a big assumption | 00:31 |
| LaserJock | you should perhaps look at a more generalized approach | 00:31 |
| LaserJock | but for sure there's a balance | 00:32 |
| Lns | of course | 00:32 |
| LaserJock | if you overgeneralize it's no use to anybody because you haven't gotten anything done :-0 | 00:32 |
| Lns | hopefully most of the generalization can be done 'under the hood' | 00:32 |
| Lns | hence the gnu tools we already have, and have had for ages | 00:32 |
| LaserJock | a lot of the unix/GNU philosophy has been to have small programs that do a specific task very well | 00:33 |
| LaserJock | and then later writing "glue" that pulls together the small tasks to do what you ultimately want to do | 00:34 |
| Lns | yep | 00:34 |
| Lns | +100 | 00:34 |
| LaserJock | so I'd like to start with "add a user", "remove a user", "modify a user" .... | 00:34 |
| LaserJock | then as things build we can use a CLI and/or GUI to put it all together into a Control Panel type thing | 00:35 |
| LaserJock | of course that's assuming we ever get that far ;-) | 00:35 |
| Lns | so maybe write scripts to do the specifics we want (mass user add/modify/remove, etc.) that are simply wrapping around useradd/mod/del | 00:36 |
| Lns | in the spirit of those underlying tools | 00:36 |
| LaserJock | right, that would be a first step | 00:37 |
| Lns | then making a gui around THAT would be that much easier | 00:37 |
| LaserJock | or perhaps use a python library instead of useradd/mod/del directly | 00:37 |
| LaserJock | we know how to add/remove/modify users individually | 00:38 |
| LaserJock | what we're missing is how to do it on a mass scale | 00:38 |
| LaserJock | and from there how to do it in a user/teacher/admin friendly way | 00:38 |
| Lns | sure..well what about the simple 'for i in foo' method? | 00:38 |
| Lns | i dunno, i'm thinking on a higher level than i should be probably | 00:39 |
| Lns | i dont' know much of anything about the underlying libs | 00:39 |
| LaserJock | well, you just need to check your assumptions | 00:39 |
| LaserJock | useradd, etc. don't do LDAP, right? | 00:39 |
| LaserJock | so you're assuming local users, but given a set of usernames and passwords it exactly a for i in foo | 00:40 |
| Lns | right...well you have to start somewhere | 00:41 |
| Lns | you can't assume everyone will use ldap either ;) | 00:41 |
| LaserJock | yep | 00:41 |
| LaserJock | so that's why I want to collect the scripts that people are actually using | 00:41 |
| Lns | ldap users is such a mess | 00:41 |
| LaserJock | then we can find commonalities and generalize | 00:41 |
| Lns | yeah | 00:41 |
| Lns | for sure | 00:41 |
| erosa | Hi.I think it'd b a good idea to have al least a mentor in https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+mentoring | 07:54 |
| erosa | I have the will to learn and help, but the few tries I made didn't have any sucess. | 07:56 |
| tall | hello. | 08:44 |
| tall | is this a place for technical question about open office in Ubuntu 9.04 ? | 08:44 |
| alkisg | tall, I think it's more suited for #ubuntu | 08:45 |
| alkisg | But you can also ask here, I don't think anyone would mind, I just don't know if you'll have enough feedback :) | 08:46 |
| === ogra_ is now known as ogra | ||
| stgraber | highvoltage: ping | 15:52 |
| === alkisg1 is now known as alkisg | ||
| jonathan1 | Has anyone recently upgraded to 9.04 with an on-board intel graphics chipset and have the graphics go crazy. My graphics, and I am using that term loosely because it could be the video driver, looks like it it is only covering the top 2 inches of my monitor and it repeats a good half dozen times across. Any ideas how to fix it anyone? | 18:26 |
| jonathan1 | I understand that ubuntu, in general, has a long running issue with intel chipset. Was curious if anyone else had the same problem that I did/do. | 18:32 |
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