nick_schembriCan anyone point me to the status of aufs and it's replacement?00:47
dtchenubuntu status and/or upstream status?00:48
dtchenas far as ubuntu is concerned, it's gone from karmic00:48
dtchenit was turned down from upstream recently, too00:48
nick_schembrithat is sad. :(  can you point me to the replacement?00:49
dtchennick_schembri: whatever Fedora/Red Hat is using00:56
nick_schembripeter graner talked about dm-snapshot.  I'm just trying to make sure I get the correct project.00:59
dtchenthat's correct01:00
nick_schembridtchen: thanks for the help.01:00
dtchennick_schembri: yw01:02
cwilluquestion:  the mainline daily ppa hasn't had an i386 build show up in nearly a week04:19
cwilluis that known?04:19
johanbrcwillu: what happened with your kernel lockups?04:20
cwillujohanbr, nothing yet really04:21
cwillujohanbr, although kms screws up suspend even quicker :p04:22
johanbrdid you try the older kernel with newer userspace?04:22
cwilluya, that seemed to work fine, although I didn't run it for more than an hour or two, and I've had the newer kernel work that long once in a while04:23
cwilluI'll try that again tomorrow for work04:24
cwillulatest daily that has an i86 panics on boot with a allocation of page_cgroup was failed04:33
* cwillu boots a mainline-ppa 2.6.2904:37
cwilluoh right, I remember why I hadn't tried 2.6.28 during a full work day04:39
cwilluext4 delete crasher :)04:39
cwillualthough that didn't exist in the mainline 2.6.28, so I'll grab one of those04:39
cwillu2.6.29-020629 looks good so far04:45
solarionSo I have in my hands at least partial docs for programming a programmable HD DSP/Amp from AMD's HTPC platform.  Where should I start looking for coding up a driver for it?04:53
solarionis there any sort of ALSA interface for programming a programmable dsp?04:54
solarionlooks like it's controlled over the HD Audio bus; where do I find docs on using it?04:57
cwillujohanbr, 2.6.29 seems to be working, I'm going to try that one tomorrow unless it gives me some trouble tonight05:00
johanbrgood luck05:00
cwillujohanbr, quick question (I'm on my way out, but I'll read when I'm back), if this 2.6.29 works, am I in bisect-land, and if so, should I be bisecting between 2.6.29 and an early 2.6.30, or is there a better starting point?  (I remember you saying something about big suspend changes landing early on)05:32
zeroproghey guys when trying to write a driver for an undocumented piece of hardware where should i begin in the reversing process07:26
AceLanzeroprog: what kind of driver? and what's its interface?10:06
* apw wonders how Keybuk's machine is ...10:12
apwthere must be communities who specialise in the reverse engineering process.  i think nouveau was whole reverse engineered from the hardware.  they may be a good group to approach10:13
Keybukapw: still trying to work out why these renames fail10:21
apwKeybuk, which renames, i thought all should fail pretty much10:26
Keybuksince it should be a rename of something on cow to something else on the cow10:26
Keybukwell you should be able to create a new file, then rename it elsewhere, no10:26
apwyeah that is true, and those don't work either?10:27
Keybukthat's what I'm investigating10:30
Keybukit seems not10:30
apwthat would be limiting indeed10:31
Keybukapw: of course, this could be an APT bug, arguably10:49
apwyou would think that apt would have hit this issue before10:50
Keybukdunno, I can't work out what it's doing at the moment ;)10:51
Keybukthe syscalls don't make much sense10:51
apwheheh .... if you can't figure it out we are in a lot of trouble :)10:51
KeybukInvalid cross-device link (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic-security_Release -> /var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic-security_Release).10:52
Keybukcorrect me if I'm wrong10:52
Keybukbut aren't those the same path?10:52
sorenTheir md5sum is identical, at least.10:52
apwto my eye yes10:52
mvointeressting behaviour10:53
* Keybuk clears out partial and tries again10:54
Keybukok, I get a different error now10:54
Keybukapt clearly has a bug there, it's just one you can only hit if you first experience the failure mode of a union mount <g>10:54
KeybukI clearly need a smaller test case than apt10:56
Keybukstrace strace ...11:04
Keybukgives unexpected output ;)11:04
KeybukI think they just didn't bother to implement rename at all ;)11:06
Keybukroot@union:/# echo "foo" > a_file_in_the_cow11:06
Keybukroot@union:/# ./overwrite a_file_in_the_cow11:06
Keybukrename: Invalid cross-device link11:06
=== smb is now known as smb_afk
Keybukapw: see my mail ;)11:12
Keybukit shouldn't be a problem for rename ("some_path", "some_path.bak") to fail11:14
Keybukbecause apps doing that should11:14
Keybuk a) check the return value and cope11:14
Keybuk b) not do that11:14
Keybukbut the other three rename()s I highlighted there should work, because they're not doing much cross-device11:15
apwyeah i think the first one they lilley don't support, but it sounds like a sane description in tha tyou can do it all at the top level only ever looking at the toplevel11:16
apwthe other two sound like bugs, but i think there is rename code in there11:17
apwso it must be broke11:17
Keybukit should be easy enough to do11:18
Keybukif source is on the top layer, the rename() should always be permitted11:19
apwyeah that i think makes sense11:19
Keybukif source is on a lower layer, the rename() should return EXDEV11:19
Keybukif the source is on the top layer, and there's something of the same name on a lower layer, the rename() should be permitted and leave a whiteout in the old location11:19
Keybuk(otherwise you could overwrite a file on the top layer, rename() it, and suddenly the old file comes back)11:20
apwits likely you could _always_ leave a whiteout, so you don't have to check the lower level11:20
apwthough i think once the names are copied up the first time, they directory becomes opaque anyhow11:20
apwthere is some mind bending optimisation in there11:20
Keybukrename(src-on-lower, dest-on-upper) can't work because you need to copy up11:21
Keybukbut that's ok11:21
apwsounds like we might be able to live with that11:21
apwthat the critical erm atomics are top to top only11:21
KeybukI'd be interested if anything is actually trying the other form of rename()11:22
Keybuksince it shouldn't11:22
apwright other than mv11:22
Keybukyou shouldn't rename() files to ".bak" because you end up with the permissions round the wrong way11:22
apwand it really should cope11:22
Keybukyou should create .bak and copy into it before trunc()ing the original11:22
Keybukand if you have a genuine reason to rename() a file, you should at least cope with EXDEV ;)11:23
cwilluKeybuk, I'm curious: how does that interact with the ext4 delayed allocation semantic workaround?11:24
cwillui.e., does it still trigger an implicit fsync, or does that end up looking like something else?11:24
Keybukcwillu: ?11:25
apw+       /* renaming on unions is done by the user-space */11:26
apw+       error = -EXDEV;11:26
apw+       if (is_unionized(oldnd.path.dentry, oldnd.path.mnt))11:26
apw+               goto exit5;11:26
apw+       if (is_unionized(newnd.path.dentry, newnd.path.mnt))11:26
apw                goto exit5;11:26
apw 11:26
apwKeybuk, dispite the commentry in the patches saying that this is supported it appears that rename is simply not supported at all, fail.11:26
cwilluKeybuk, currently with ext4, if you rename over top an existing file, you get an implied fsync of the new contents.  This 'fixes' the empty-file-after-a-crash bug that people complained about11:26
apwext4 does not support union11:27
Keybukcwillu: this is all done at the VFS level11:27
apwits ext2 and tmpfs only right11:27
cwillusorry, I didn't read enough scrollback.  I thought you were discussing application behaviour, not unions11:27
Keybukcwillu: if you were using an ext4 top layer, and both the source and destination were on that, its semantics would apply11:27
Keybukapw: I didn't think the patches were ext2 specific11:28
apwthe upper level fs has to have the ability to support whiteout entries11:28
apwand i only see patches for tmpfs and ext2 for that11:28
Keybukext4 is based off that ext2 code though, right?11:28
apwi don't think it is in this context11:29
apwbut we should ask.  for our use cases i don't think we care11:29
apwas any volatile and any non-volatile upper layer is fine11:29
Keybukyeah looks like it's ext2 only - but relatively trivial to patch to ext3 and ext4 later11:31
apwyeah and for the two uses we absolutly need for this work for karmic i think tmpfs and ext2 would be fine right?11:31
Keybukthough I think the existing COW is ext311:33
Keybukwhich briefly surprised me11:33
* Keybuk tries to remember whether USB and journalling filesystems are friends or enemies11:33
apwits all very perplexing11:34
KeybukSubject: Re: [PATCH 15/32] union-mount: Documentation11:36
KeybukMessage-ID: <20090618190558.GB22206@shell>11:36
Keybukapw: val posted the old rename() patch to lkml11:36
Keybukmight be worth looking at11:37
Keybuksee if it's possible to keep rename() on top layers without the copy-up11:37
apwyeah i think your minor exceptions would be implementable as they occur in one layer only11:37
apwKeybuk, well it still seems to apply to the current stack, i'll apply it and get a kernel building and we can see what happens11:46
StevenKapw: I was curious if it has been accepted upstream11:47
apwvfs union-mounts ?11:47
apwnot yet, they are still being developed, i think they were given the nod as the right approach11:47
StevenKapw: Yup11:47
apwwhich is more than half the battle11:47
apwthey seem much less invasive than the alternatives to my eye11:48
Keybukplus aside from a few minor issues, they work11:48
StevenKWell, so did aufs :-P11:48
apwyeah that they are this close to working so soon is always a good sign11:48
apwcirtainly worth us spending a few man days playing with anyhow11:49
apwKeybuk, i do wish .deb's were rsyncable11:59
Keybukyou can make them rsyncable11:59
apwi can?  how?12:00
* apw slobbers at the thought12:00
Keybukthere's a patch to add it directly to dpkg12:03
apwoh hrm. so not just a simple option then12:03
Keybukyou can manually recompress a .deb after making it with gzip --rsyncable as well12:03
apwoh now that i would be happy to do12:04
apwis that documented anywhere/so obvious i should know12:04
StevenKapw: ar x .deb12:06
StevenKgunzip *.tar.gz12:06
Keybukar p THINGY.deb | gunzip -c | gzip --rsyncable > data.tar.gz12:06
StevenKgzip --rsyncable ...12:06
Keybukar r THINGY.deb data.tar.gz12:06
Keybukar p THINGY.deb data.tar.gz | gunzip -c | gzip --rsyncable > data.tar.gz12:06
apwheh thanks both, will give it a go12:07
apwthese 28 min uploads are killing me12:07
=== smb_afk is now known as smb
ivoksanyone around?15:19
ivoksi'm looking at linux/connector.h in karmic15:19
ivoksshouldn't connector unique ids be uniq?15:20
ivoksi remember having problems with drbd when it had the same cn_idx as v86d15:21
ivoksboth modules couldn't be loaded at the same time15:21
ivoksactually, they could, but only the first one loaded worked, and the other didn't15:22
ivoksby bad, they are unique :)15:23
apwKeybuk, ok finally got that rename patch to build at least, so i've uploaded it to the same PPA.  should be there in an hour ish16:04
Keybukapw: tvm16:05
apwits taken me an hour to get the PPA to accept it, what a waste of time16:06
apwKeybuk, actually waht arch are you testing16:08
apwi'll get you a dirty binary from my build farm ... much quicker16:10
apwgetting overly into PPAs and actually they are slowing me down16:10
rtgapw: just sent you a note about GEM/PAE. Have you any test results from your patch set?16:21
apwnot seen anything will poke them16:21
mdzis the kernel packaging (debian/ dir) kept in git as well?16:32
rtgmdz: yes16:32
mdzrtg: thanks.  so if I have a packaging patch to submit, I should do it the same way as one would a kernel code patch?16:33
rtgmdz: exactly16:33
lionelHi all. Digging with a collegue of mine today on bug #243393, we found that a one line fix (removing a warning) could fix it. Do you think this low risk fix could be integrated in the next hardy SRU kernel upload?16:33
ubot3Malone bug 243393 in linux "dmesg is flooded with warnings in kvm/mmu.c" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24339316:33
rtgmdz: as an example, see how Luke has done it for the ports config changes: 'git://kernel.ubuntu.com/themuso/ubuntu-karmic.git master'16:34
smblionel, In general it could. But as this is a WARN_ON it needs to be made clear this is not just shutting the eyes in the face of some evil...16:39
lionelsmb: agreed, but considering that it is now what's is done on newer kernel16:39
lionelsmb: the problem is that is fill partitions (10GB of logs here for this :()16:40
mvofor me the crashkernel functionatlity is not work (bug #389449 and possible #364414) - is that a known issue?16:41
ubot3Malone bug 389449 in linux "linux-crashdump not working: "crashkernel reservation failed - memory is in use" " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38944916:41
smblionel, Well in that case, if you can provide that patch from upstream with an explanation on why and send it to the kernel-team mailing list.16:41
lionelsmb: Ok, will do, thanks !16:41
AraneidaeWondering where my RAM has got to: have 3GB installed, but Linux (and Memtest) only recognises 2.5G!16:46
Araneidae/proc/iomem tells a curious tale, not really sure how to interpret it...16:47
apwKeybuk, ok ... http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/vfs_union10-karmic/16:53
Keybukapw: if my computer burns, you owe me a new one :p16:55
Keybukwhich reminds me, wonder what happened to the one pgraner was supposed to have sent me16:55
apwAraneidae, look at the e820 section of the dmesg output, tells you where your ram is16:56
pgranerKeybuk: I haven't sent it yet. My wife packed it my mistake (we are moving houses) and I will get it next week. Once that happens I'll drop it in FedEx.16:56
pgranerKeybuk: Sorry I forgot to mention it to you earlier16:56
Araneidaeapw, it's a bit all over the place -- and it's not all there!16:56
Keybukahh, no worries16:56
Keybuknot in any rush, just wondered whether the postman had stolen it ;P16:56
Keybukor customs16:56
apwAraneidae, paste the e820 in a pastebin16:56
AraneidaeThat's the first page of dmesg16:57
AraneidaeI was kind of hoping 00000000 - bfffffff, but I guess that was too simple minded of me16:58
sbeattiesmb|ogasawara: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/330824/comments/191 should probably get on your radar (as a separate bug)16:59
ubot3Malone bug 330824 in linux "Soft lockups (freezes) when deleting files from ext4 partitions on 2.6.28" [Medium,In progress] 16:59
ogasawarasbeattie: thanks16:59
Araneidaeapw, am I just at the mercy of my BIOS here? 17:00
apwAraneidae, uless some of the ram has been shifted over 4GB cause of the other stuff17:00
apwyou might try booting with a pae kernel (like the server one) and see if its there17:00
smbsbeattie, Thanks. Yeah should be there17:01
AraneidaeWell, there's something funning going on -- when I tried Memtest86+ it also showed 2.5G; if I tried reconfiguring memory it crashed!17:02
AraneidaeProbe => black screen; All BIOS => many memory error messages then hang17:03
apwdefine reconfiguring memory17:03
AraneidaeOn the Memtest86+ screen it offers a couple of menu options, one is "c" => "Configure Memory"17:04
AraneidaeThis then offers a menu with a number of options, including "All BIOS" and "Probe" as well as the subset it had selected.17:05
AraneidaeUnfortunately I'm wholly unfamiliar with this tool!17:05
Araneidaeand with the BIOS interface it's using17:05
mdzis linux-meta in git as well? or just in the archive?17:06
apwmdz, in git as well, in the ubuntu/ubuntu-series-meta.git17:06
smbmdz, it is in git17:06
AraneidaeI'm guessing my motherboard is messing me about; don't know if the kernel can do any better with what it's being told.17:07
mdzapw: can you translate that to a URL for me?  I tried git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-series-meta.git but that  fails17:07
apwif the memory is mapped high, and that happens often when you get abover 3GB then the kernle won't see it unless its PAE enabled17:07
mdzapw: oh, series=karmic17:08
apwmdz s/series/karmic/ etc17:08
apwi should have said -<series>-17:08
AraneidaeIs the Ubuntu stock kernel not PAE enabled by default?17:08
smbonly the server kernel17:08
* Araneidae is running Ubuntu 9.04 "out of the box"17:08
apwno, we will have it avilable in karmic17:09
AraneidaeIs there a simple package to switch to PAE?  Not that keen on maintaining a separate kernel build on this machine...17:09
ogasawarasbeattie: just fyi I created - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/linux/+bug/389555.  also posted a comment to 33082417:09
ubot3Malone bug 389555 in linux "[PATCH] ext4 filesystem corruption" [Undecided,Fix released] 17:09
apwyou can install the server kernel17:09
AraneidaePackage linux-server ?17:11
mdzapw: so I have an ubuntu-karmic tree and an ubuntu-karmic-meta tree containing local changes which I would like to submit to the kernel team for review.  what's the best way to do it?17:12
mdzcommit and then format-patch?17:12
AraneidaeGuess linux-server is a meta-package, it depends on linux-image-server and linux-restricted-modules-server17:12
apwyeah thats the simplest 17:12
rtgmdz: the simplest is 'git format-patch -1 <SHA1>', then email it17:13
apwAraneidae, that will do the trick then17:13
AraneidaeAch: "There can be issues with third party drivers and the server kernel (specifically, nvidia drivers)".  I'll have to suck it and see, I guess...17:14
AraneidaeCan anybody here run `cat /proc/uptime` on a 2.6.30 kernel and tell me what it says?17:16
apwapw@dm$ cat /proc/uptime 17:16
apw270380.70 254.3917:16
AraneidaeIs that second, very small number, a likely measure of idle time on that machine?17:17
AraneidaeIf not, /proc/uptime is *still* broken17:17
AraneidaeMy patch didn't make it in...17:17
apwi'd say its a load average17:17
AraneidaeNo, it's meant to be cumulative idle time.17:17
apwbut i don't know17:17
AraneidaeAlways was up to .2817:17
apwthen its broken17:18
AraneidaeWell, damn.  I'll have to try prodding everyone who was cc'd before on this.  Dammit, I thought it went in.17:18
apwAraneidae, what was the title of the bug17:18
apwpatch eve17:18
Araneidaehang on, I'll try and hunt out the thread17:19
apwsmb, dunno if you watching the release meeting, they are on hardy .0317:19
smbapw, thanks missed it17:20
smbapw, Thought after kernel team it is done... :-P17:20
apwheh me too17:20
apwjust luck its in another window so i saw it17:21
AraneidaeThis was my repost of the patch: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=124265309620490&w=217:22
AraneidaeThere was quite a lot of traffic with titles: "linux-next: cputime tree build warning" and "[GIT PULL] cputime patch for 2.6.30-rc6"17:24
mdzapw: I've attached two nearly-trivial patches to bug 382115 which fix it (and bug 247517)17:25
ubot3Malone bug 382115 in linux "Consider building unversioned linux-doc package" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38211517:25
ubot3Malone bug 247517 in linux "linux-doc-2.6.26 unnecessarily conflicts  with other linux-doc packages" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24751717:25
AraneidaeThe build warning was an annoying accident, which probably didn't help it.17:25
apwmdz, thanks for those17:26
mdzapw: is it sufficient to attach them to the bug, or would it help if I sent them to the mailing list?17:26
apwif you have time to send them to the mainling list then they'll get sorted sooner17:28
mdzapw: done17:30
rtgapw: one of the things mdz's patch reminded me of is that we were considering the removal of generated files from the git repo, e.g., debian/control, debian/control.stub, debian/d-i/kernel, etc17:32
rtgthat would make some of these patches a bit simpler17:33
mdzrtg: yeah, I was unsure about whether I should commit the autogenerated stuff or not17:33
apwyeah i tend to send the patches without the generated stuff and let them come in automatically for that reason17:33
mdzdifferent packages handle this differently17:33
rtgmdz: I usually strip that stuff out when I'm integrating the patch anyways17:33
mdzif you want me to strip it out, that's easy enough17:33
rtgmdz: thats ok, we can deal17:33
mdzok, thanks17:33
rtgapw: so, lets try it for awhile. I'll go ahead and delete those generated files. OK ?17:34
rtgthat would also help a common packaging mistake where debian/control doesn't get regenerated correctly17:35
apwyeah i am down with that.17:35
apwas long as the packaging will clean things before making the source package we will be ok i think17:38
apwthere was something about control needing to be there before building the src pckg which would need testing17:38
rtgapw: it does 'cause everything is dependent on debian/control17:38
apwyep, so as long as dpkg-thingy doesn't need a control to exist before it hits clean we are good, and clean is the first thing in src generation17:39
rtgapw: it always does a clean first17:40
rtgI'll practice it to make sure17:41
apwdpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Andy Whitcroft <apw@canonical.com>17:41
apwdpkg-checkbuilddeps: failure: cannot read debian/control: No such file or directory17:41
apwdpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.17:41
apwdpkg-buildpackage: warning: (Use -d flag to override.)17:41
apwdpkg-buildpackage: warning: This is currently a non-fatal warning with -S, but17:41
apwdpkg-buildpackage: warning: will probably become fatal in the future.17:41
apw fakeroot debian/rules clean17:41
apwso control may need to be there still,17:41
rtgI'll work on it. 17:41
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
rtgapw: so, I think I like the side effects of removing the auto-generated files. It pretty much forces you to generate them before you can package or build.17:57
apwi can live with that, the instructions need to be 'fdr clean; debuild -s .... -sa' sort of thing i guess17:58
rtgIf we go forward with this patch, then we'd better mention it on the maintenance wiki17:58
Keybukapw: err, that one panic'd on boot17:58
apwhrm i did what?17:59
apwit even?17:59
Keybukapw: panic, on boot17:59
Keybuksomewhere in populate_rootfs17:59
apwbefore you did anything with unions ?17:59
Keybukright, before it even got as far as the initramfs ;)17:59
apwwell heck what did i do wrong there18:00
Keybukno idea18:00
Keybukeven "ls" produces wacky output18:00
Keybukd??????? ? ?? ??  grub18:00
apwthere was a lot of porting forward for that patch, so i must have bust it18:00
Keybukls: cannot access grub: File exists18:00
Keybukit looks like you screwed the VFS <g>18:01
Keybukclearly it's that special time of the week that we call "Friday"18:02
apwyeah ... clearly18:02
Keybukso I can't tell you whether the rename patch works18:04
Keybukbecause I can't access my filesystem <g>18:04
apwKeybuk, any stack info for me from it?18:09
Keybukapw: only that it's somewhere in populate_rootfs()18:11
Keybukannoyingly someone thought the top of the stacktrace should be off the top of the screen without the ability to scroll up ;)18:11
apwyeah i know ... bloody thing18:12
apwits inevitably rename18:12
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
zeroprog_if something has a usb-ttl converter(pl2303) does that mean i can use serial i/o instead of having to write a driver?20:35
cr3anyone happen to have a moment to help me understand overcommitting memory? I heard that it's possible to allocate gigabytes of memory, more than what seems to fit in the void* address space. is that right?20:59
mjg59cr3: No21:03
mjg59Overcommit relates to whether allocated pages are backed by real memory or swap, not whether you can have more than 3GB of address space on a 32-bit CPU21:04
cr3mjg59: ok, I understand the first part but not the latter part21:04
cr3mjg59: to have more than 3GB, is the address still allocated on the heap somehow?21:05
mjg59You can't allocate more than 3GB on a 32-bit CPU21:06
cr3mjg59: my bad, I misread "not whether" as "or whether". heh, maybe it was wishful thinking :)21:07
mjg59PAE means you can have more than 4GB of RAM for the platform21:08
mjg59But each process can only have 3GB in its address space21:08
mjg59What you /can/ do is use shared memory segments (backed by RAM) as if they're files21:08
mjg59Oracle does that21:08
cr3mjg59: gotcha, all makes sense again. I was given a false impression of what overcommitting really is. thanks!21:09
cwillujohanbr, 2.6.29's suspend was working fine for me today under karmic's userspace22:08
johanbralright :)22:09
johanbrso it's a problem with 2.6.30...22:09
cwillusurprise surprise :p22:16
johanbryou'd filed a bug, right?22:18
johanbrdid you add that information to the bug?22:18

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