[00:01] As far as I know, we don't have any Canonical devs assigned to this [00:01] not explicitly [00:01] I am driving DUX team involvement, and community participation [00:02] ok, in that case i really dont think we could do 30 bugs in 12 weeks.. i was thinking more like 10-15 which is a small enough number to count towards the 100 without taking too big of a chunk out of ubuntu [00:03] hmm [00:03] i can think of 2, maybe 3 people i could get to work on patches, and possibly some upstream participation [00:04] I just don't want to say "Ubuntu fixed 10 paper cuts, Kubuntu fixed 1", I feel that will not look fair. [00:04] i don't think perception here is necessarily a fair metric, so i would just ignore that [00:04] i dunno.. i think have a spin off project would look worse, but that's just my own perception of how it would be interpreted [00:04] We are going to drive these weekly milestones, and if we show 9 Ubuntu bugs and 1 Kubuntu bug, would that make the Kubuntu community feel good about it, or bad? [00:05] the fact there are kubuntu bugs at all i think is good [00:05] it would be something people dont expect [00:05] well, I agree, all bug fixes are good [00:05] I am just afraid splitting the 100 sounds good, but might not actually make people happy then they see the results [00:05] when they* [00:06] I am getting too tired to think or type straight. [00:06] i'm with seele on it; seeing kubuntu bits is a great start [00:06] yeah, i dunno. i'm thinking positively. kubuntu is hardly ever mentioned when it comes to ubuntu PR. that's why i think any kubuntu participation in the official project will be seen as good [00:07] ok, so, let's plan this for now [00:07] seele: will you confirm a kubuntu papercut in hundredpapercuts that I can add to next week's milestone? [00:08] djsiegel1: ok [00:08] We will try to deliver 10 Ubuntu paper cuts and 1 Kubuntu paper cut for Friday, and we can see what next week teaches us about our capacity. [00:08] do i have to be part of the hundredpapercuts project to confirm a bug to it? [00:08] no [00:09] ok [00:09] The kubuntu paper cut will be part of the milestone, so it will be celebrated along with all of the others, discussed in all the blogs, etc. [00:10] djsiegel1: ok cool [00:10] Each week, we can try to plan 1 or 2 kubuntu bugs for the milestone after the next [00:10] so each week we have kubuntu paper cuts to celebrate [00:11] and at the end, if all goes perfectly, we will have 100 ubuntu + 10 or more kubuntu paper cuts [00:11] ok sounds good. i guess the question left is do i talk about it as the same 100 papercuts project or the kubuntu papercuts projec? [00:11] it seems like there were some questions about that on my blog [00:11] it's all the same project [00:11] hundredpapercuts [00:11] ok [00:11] but kubuntu bugs should be tagged in launchpad [00:12] so now it's 100+ paper cuts [00:13] well, were you really giong to stop if ubuntu hit 100 by itself? === rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3 [00:13] no, we have other work to do! :) [00:13] We are planning 10 each week at this point [00:13] when we get to 100, by all means we can continue working [00:14] ok. [00:14] but at the end I want a changelog with 100 ubuntu paper cuts [00:14] and the kubuntu papercuts [00:14] not 107 ubuntu paper cuts :) [00:15] who knows, we might not even be able to deliver 40 [00:16] hehe, then i'll be sure kubuntu eats the remaining 60 ;) [00:16] sounds great [00:16] do the papercuts include network manager? [00:16] seaLne: network manager requires major surgery, not a bandaid ;) [00:16] seaLne: if the fixes are trivial, yes [00:16] network manager is like, a sliced off finger you need to use leeches on [00:17] really not looking forward to going to gran canaria with no working wireless [00:17] for example, one of this week's bugs is replacing the string "auto eth0" [00:17] ah [00:17] ah, actually getting your wifi working is not a paper cut :) [00:17] the problem is network manager not my actuall wifi [00:18] even with wired connection it still continually pretends its trying to connect on wlan0 [00:19] seaLne: yeah, big usability issue, but too big to be a paper cut -- I think that issue has already been filed in hundredpapercuts [00:19] but on the vague bonus side in karmic i can use the video software i need for doing gcds [00:19] seaLne: I experience it every morning [00:20] sorry just back from the pub so extra bitchy [00:21] seele: I think I failed to make something clear -- Ubuntu *will* stop counting paper cuts for Karmic at 100. Our process just doesn't account for it. 10 milestones X 10 bugs = 100 at the end. Additional fixed paper cuts can land, but will not compose "The 100" [00:22] djsiegel1: ok [00:22] I'm back [00:22] did you guys sort it? [00:22] yeah, I think so [00:22] please don't make me read back [00:22] :) [00:22] djsiegel1: so if you don't hit your target kubuntu counts towards the total? [00:23] yes, kubuntu could save ubuntu for the even 100 :) [00:23] I don't see why not. [00:23] * rickspencer3 thinks djsiegel1 <3 the number 100 [00:23] Unless we get 99... [00:23] hehe [00:23] yeah, then 1 kubuntu papercut will look weird [00:24] we will be better able to answer those questions in a few weeks [00:26] seele: what was decided? [00:27] rickspencer3: 1 paperkut per week, gets talked about in the summary tallies, will be listed in the changelog, but wont count towards the official tally unless ubuntu can't hit the target [00:28] ok [00:28] so this whole "has to be exactly 100" thing is pretty important to djsiegel1 I take it [00:29] rickspencer3: we've just already mentioned that number so many times [00:29] I feel like it's on my head if we don't do 100 [00:29] okay [00:29] I still think 100 is a concept, not a number in this context [00:29] rickspencer3: the press wont see it as a concept ;) [00:29] but, I guess my necks not on the line :) [00:29] right [00:30] hmm [00:30] everyone has already taken it as promised [00:30] I guess the press doesn't concern me much [00:30] "Ubuntu commits to fix 100 usability bugs" [00:30] the users and the contributors do though [00:30] if it's < 100, it looks bad [00:30] right, but if it's 104, that's not bad, is it? [00:30] no, not at all [00:30] or even 120? [00:31] that's great too [00:31] it only looks bad if it is < 100 :) [00:31] than I'm a tad confused by the "don't count the Kubuntu ones unless... " piece [00:31] so, there's little marginal benefit to going past 100 [00:31] 100 is magic [00:31] even going to 120 [00:31] it's not 20% better [00:31] we can actually *fix* 120 for karmic [00:31] it seems like if the concern is hitting 100, we would want to count all the ones that we can [00:31] but we should still point at 100 fixed [00:31] when we list them [00:32] and call it One Hundred [00:32] well ... it's not important for me to understand [00:32] haha [00:32] I'm just glad you guys have a plan you are happy with [00:33] when we say we will fix 100, delivering 80 looks like we failed to get them all, and delivering 120 looks like we underestimated ourselves and didn't plan right [00:34] keep in mind, it isn't just 100 bugs [00:34] they are 100 usability-related bugs [00:34] identifying that many real usability bugs that are also small enough to count as a papercut will be hard [00:34] I really don't think over shooting by 20 will have any negative conotations [00:35] i dont either, but 100 still sounds like a lot, especially compared to how many "usability" bugs have been fixed in the past [00:35] hello - it's so past my bedtime I thought I would stay out of this but I agree with seele [00:36] hi ivanka [00:36] * rickspencer3 hands ivanka a cup of coffee [00:36] * seele waves to ivanka [00:36] 100 usability bugs and 100 usability solutions is not going to terribly simple [00:36] agreed [00:36] * ivanka waves back and spills the coffee [00:36] I was hoping to see like 40 fixed [00:36] out of all the ones nominated [00:37] i think a lot of the usability bugs identified probably wont end up as papercuts. small problems do not mean small solutions [00:37] however, I also agree with djsiegel1 that it is way to early to aim for anything less than 100 [00:37] right, so let's just throw the Kubuntu ones into the mix and push hard on the total number [00:37] small solutions might have been a better aim :) [00:38] but it wouldn't have been so exciting [00:38] no, you've all got it backwards [00:38] what's backwards? [00:39] the solutions are small, the problems are big [00:39] hehe [00:39] the idea paper cut causes infinite pain and costs zero to fix [00:39] ideal* [00:39] yes [00:39] but [00:40] short of bringing down a big usability hammer and saying 'make it like this' [00:40] i think of papercuts as fleas on a dog [00:40] one isn't that bad, but a bunch of them are annoying [00:40] some of these things have implications on other things [00:40] I think of them as drops of acid on my eyeball [00:40] haha [00:40] ouch! [00:40] ivanka: exactly [00:41] yes, we discovered today that 1 of the ten for next week was not easy enough to fix [00:41] one taxonomy change and suddenly the whole menu is weird [00:41] djsiegel1: does that mean you will replace it or just take longer to fix a papercut? [00:41] replaced it [00:41] it means we were wrong about it being a paper cut [00:41] it was "Move to Trash" in the context menu of a file on a disk you are about to burn [00:42] blimey! that not a papercut? === k4v is now known as m4v [00:42] changing that to "Remove from Disc" or something turned out not to be feasible [00:42] ivanka: or moving one button and disrupting the workflow of a task [00:42] the codebase doesn't differentiate between moving a file to trash and removing a file from a disc you are burning [00:42] ew [00:42] I didn't verify, but someone checked upstream [00:43] besides, the package (nautilus-cd-burner) is deprecated [00:43] yeah, there have been a few weird things like that in kde, where we could fix something seemingly minor because of the technology [00:43] no biggie [00:43] pragmatic papercuts [00:43] I like [00:44] ok, this guy's got a date [00:44] time to go [00:45] have a nice weekend, all [00:45] have fun! [00:45] byeeeeee [00:45] bye! [00:48] anyone have a link to the proposed kubuntu start logo? [01:02] this? http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Kubuntu+start+button?content=92234 [01:09] lex79: yep, thanks [01:09] ;) [01:14] JontheEchidna: ping [01:14] lex79: anything to revu? [01:14] apachelogger: pong [01:15] JontheEchidna: what to talk about in my ruby talk for KTD? [01:15] make a plasmoid? [01:16] nah :P [01:16] apachelogger: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fotowall [01:16] the problem is: 5) All the 3rdparty components are slightly modified for Fotowall. [01:17] lex79: so? upstream shall push changes upstream :P [01:18] if upstream does modifications upstream's upstream would not be interested, upstream should not do them :P [01:19] JontheEchidna, Riddell: ruby intro + kde ruby hello + a quick look at some ruby magic (i.e. ninja scripts and amarok's release script) should be enough to fill a session [01:20] apachelogger: so, what should I do? I can't debundle the 3rdparty components [01:20] I am somewhat uninteressted in tutoring the creation of a plasmoid, since most of the effort is really backend stuff that is kinda not fancy at all :D [01:20] lex79: poke upstream again [01:21] uff :( [01:21] if he promises to get rid of it we probably can upload and hope he keeps that promise ;-) [01:21] anyone else have two batteries and have problems with the widget icon displaying properly? [01:21] also, it might make sense to mention that in a packagers readme [01:22] seele: like in bug 380251? [01:22] Launchpad bug 380251 in kdeplasma-addons "KDE4 battery monitor's icon gets screwed up with 2 batteries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/380251 [01:22] JontheEchidna: yep thanks! [01:22] maybe bug 368680 too [01:22] Launchpad bug 368680 in kdeplasma-addons "battery monitor widget shows wrong displaced battery symbols when two batteries are used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368680 [01:22] * seele wonders if that is too hard to fix as a papercut [01:22] JontheEchidna: what to do with bug 381599 [01:22] Launchpad bug 381599 in koffice2 "kword fails to start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381599 [01:22] apachelogger: close our eyes and hope it goes away? :P [01:23] aint no good :P [01:23] you know [01:23] either all other distros do not deploy koffice 2 or a debian patch screws it up [01:23] cause google only lists search results for debian and ubntu [01:24] ubuntu even [01:24] hey all [01:24] seele: I'm going to mark that as a dupe of bug 368680 [01:24] Launchpad bug 368680 in kdeplasma-addons "battery monitor widget shows wrong displaced battery symbols when two batteries are used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368680 [01:24] I probably should look upstream for a corresponding bug [01:24] I can help fix sum cuts after finishing usb-creator [01:25] so nixternal won't be the only one with C++ skillz :) [01:26] bloat skillz that is :P [01:27] JontheEchidna: fancy name suggestions for the KTD session? [01:27] lol [01:27] apachelogger: but I sure can dance for a bloated man [01:28] and you know you liked my video too apachelogger [01:28] :P [01:28] uh [01:28] hmm [01:28] The Last Ruby Unicorn [01:28] ... Barbie girl [01:29] :D [01:29] lol [01:30] JontheEchidna: kinda depressing aint it? [01:30] rgreening: I sure didn't watch it :P [01:30] hah [01:31] seele: is this still an issue for you in KDE 4.3? There seems to be one fixed bug about 2 batteries, but maybe there is more than one issue: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196721 [01:31] KDE bug 196721 in general "Battery monitor bug with 2+ battery" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [01:32] JontheEchidna: i dont know if the offset problem is the same as the broken looking icon problem [01:44] JontheEchidna: yea...the problem was that you have to have effects on and whatnot...therefore the fullscreen case is a catch all for people that don't have effects...we get a consistent look [01:45] Riddell: don't know about what file you can check...but I imagine that is one...query the username...my guess if that if it is "ubuntu" then your are probly in a live session? .. cjwatson might know what file you can query [01:45] * JontheEchidna nods [01:45] I couldn't manage to get the actual install frame transparent like a "real" plasmoid, but it still looks quite nice [01:46] right...you could get the install frame transparent if the border images were svg... but then my fear is being too crowded for the user [01:46] transparency is cool...but can also distract from the task at hand...and text reading gets harder [01:47] seele: did you manage to get a look or what me to knock out some screenshots? [01:48] I hope we can find some way to do no-borders w/o resorting to fullscreen, since otherwise you couldn't do anything while it installs [01:48] shtylman: i only saw one screenshot, if you could create a collection so i can see all the screens that would be helpful [01:49] JontheEchidna: the idea is that after you hit the install button on the last step it will minimize and you can work while it installs...we will also provide a minimize icon in the upper right corner to minimize at any time [01:49] seele: will do [01:49] clever [01:50] shtylman: thanks [01:50] have you seen the new kpackagekit animations in the new version in karmic? Mayhaps we should steal some of those... [01:50] nope..but will gladly look into it :) [01:53] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/sysadmin/kpackagekit/KPackageKit/Animations/ [01:53] buncha .mng files [01:56] cool [01:56] and those replace some icons? [01:56] seele: http://shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu_installer/steps/ [01:57] I was thinking that while ubiquity is doing its kdialogs-with-progressbars we could slap a couple of those up where appropriate [01:57] indeed...that could look nice [01:58] if we're gonna go bling we might as well go all the way and beat the pants off of ubiquity-gtk ;-) [01:58] :) [02:00] shtylman: thanks [02:01] its obviously just a mockup app...but it gets across many of the ideas I want to try [02:02] oh, have you seen krunner do its little slidy thing when you mouse over the results? [02:02] maybe when the user goes down a step it could do a slidy thing [02:03] tht would be nice...must admit I havn't the slightest idea how to do that... :) [02:03] prolly would need some QGraphicsWidget magic [02:03] though I'm not sure how I'd do it either ;-) [02:29] http://shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu_installer/ubiquity_step5_trans.png <-- with a little transparency on the main widget... [02:35] Riddell, JontheEchidna: would you like to have anything specific covered? I am currently trying to give a general syntax overview and cover the basics to get started with simple ruby stuff [02:50] anyone have a copy of kde svn? can you grep the string "Abort" and tell me how many times it occurs? [03:03] shtylman: wow.. sum blingy pic [03:07] :) [03:20] ryanakca: ping [03:51] ryanakca: There is a bug with the kubuntunew theme. You are unable to click on the links in a table of contents [03:52] hm, almost 5am [03:53] I prolly should go to bed at some point :P [03:53] the good news is that my ruby talk is somewhat complete ... well if it is long enough [03:54] nhandler: works fine for me [03:54] hm actually it only works for some of them [03:55] nellery: How does it look on tiny pages such as http://tinyurl.com/lguhy5 [03:57] nhandler: there's no table of contents that I can see on that page [03:58] (all links work fine on that page) [03:58] nellery: There isn't. I was talking more about the bottom of the page where you have hte Edit, Page history, subscribe, etc links [03:58] I just think that it looks a little ugly [04:08] nhandler: Yep, nixternal (I think) filed a bug about it. Feel free to confirm it for me, kubuntu-website project [04:09] I'll probably get to fixing it Tuesday... I'm away tomorrow, studying all day Sunday and then math exam on Monday :) [04:14] Sure thing ryanakca [04:23] fix it now! [04:23] nhandler: how about those storms? [04:23] we almost got smashed by a tree on 355 heading to frys earlier [04:23] how nobody wrecked is beyond me [04:24] we were sitting at army trail and schmale when massive winds hit...we watched a garage fall apart, watched the light pole fall down right in front of us, then watched an idiot in a honda accord try to drive over it [04:24] i think they got scared and tried to jet the area really quick thinking it was a tornado [04:24] nixternal: We had storms, but not that bad by me. Did you see the videos posted by cdavis on identi.ca ? [04:25] no I haven't [04:25] link me please [04:25] what are they of? who is cdavis? to many people on identi.ca for me to remember [04:25] nixternal: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuxstorm/ [04:26] ahh, nice flooding, we have the same at the bottom of the hill...we can't get over to lake street [04:27] just before lake on gary there is a school bus on the right hand side that sits in a yard, it is almost completely under water [04:27] how that happened I don't know [04:29] never gonna give you up [04:29] why thanks sweety! [04:29] yuuuuuuuuuusss [04:30] nhandler: sorry about mibbit - although you are the only legit person I know who used it [04:30] vorian: Yeah, now I need to find a new web-based client to use since the Freenode one is really lacking in features [04:31] might I suggest irssi [04:31] I can lend a shell if you need one [04:32] vorian: I used mibbit in school when they blocked all the damn ports but http stuff [04:32] vorian: irssi+screen over ssh would be awesome! [04:32] it all happened in the matter of minuts...one minute I am ssh'd into my server, the next minute I am not, and never again was I able to use their network and ssh into my server [04:32] I have access to one remote machine (spooky), but I doubt they would appreciate me using it for irc ;) [04:33] nhandler: I have a spare p4 with like 128mb of rambus [04:33] it will work fine for a server that you can use for that and filed [04:33] s/filed/files/ === seele changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | Alpha 2 is OUT! | We need paperKuts! https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts [04:43] make the damn kwalletd notification go the freak away [04:43] really sleep when laptop lid closes === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [06:39] Tonio_: How goes settings for netbook? [07:06] alrighty all, I have a bike race in the name of Ubuntu in the morning...wish me luck and if all goes well, I will be alive tomorrow afternoon :) [07:07] * nixternal needs a real Ubuntu/Kubuntu cycling jersey for these races...my plan jersey isn't cutting it [07:07] g'nite === fenris- is now known as e-jat === nielsslot_ is now known as nielsslot === freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying [16:08] apachelogger: neon=> kde-nightly-googlegadgets-dbg depends on kde-nightly-qt which isn't available for jaunty. === mgraesslin_ is now known as mgraesslin [16:23] freinhard: indeed [16:36] freinhard: started a stack upgrade [16:37] hopefully that doesn't fail :D [16:37] JontheEchidna: looks like dist-upgrades should be a lot faster from jaunty to karmic :D [16:37] lzma is reducing everything quite nicely :D [16:43] apachelogger: is there a progress/status page? [16:47] not really [16:50] Nightrose: /build/buildd/amarok-nightly-20090620+svn984199/src/EngineController.cpp: In member function 'void EngineController::playUrl(const KUrl&, uint)': [16:50] /build/buildd/amarok-nightly-20090620+svn984199/src/EngineController.cpp:361: error: 'class Phonon::MediaObject' has no member named 'clear' [16:50] too old phonon? [17:06] svn rev 984358 [17:06] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/?rev=984358&view=rev | svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk -r 984358 [17:16] JontheEchidna: assigned bug 340206 to you [17:16] Launchpad bug 340206 in kdebase-workspace "~/screen-configurations.xml file after kubuntu install" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340206 [18:41] if someone is in a reviewing mood: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-widget-plasmaboard [18:52] kde 4.3 rc1 will be release on 30 june right ? [18:53] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.3_Release_Schedule [19:00] is bug 66362 a "Won't Fix" or "Fix Released". Kalzium has this feature in Karmic? [19:00] Launchpad bug 66362 in kdeedu "Equation Solver not enabled in Kalzium" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66362 [19:01] and Edgy or Dapper are dead [19:04] neversfelde: fixed [19:04] ok, thanks [19:19] neversfelde: just took a look at it. At first glance the only thing I see is that debian/copyright mentions that it is licensed under GPLv2 specifically [19:19] but the source code headers mention that at your option, it can be any later version [19:20] I think dh_make offers two options when you specify GPL, one for each [19:20] (just commented in REVU) [19:24] nellery: thanks, reuploaded [19:27] DaskreeCH: k [19:30] neversfelde: numblock -> num lock, and debian recently released Standards-Version 3.8.2. Other than that it looks perfect [19:31] and to be fair lintian doesn't know about 3.8.2 yet either ;-) [19:31] JontheEchidna: I switched back to 3.8.1 because of lintian [19:32] Yeah, I wouldn't not upload it for that. It's not *that* big of a deal really [19:33] mhh, I thought that the numblock is the block right next to the keyboard [19:33] so this is the num lock or is num lock the feature [19:33] that's what I was thinking [19:33] or is it numpad? [19:34] yeah, numpad [19:34] though it wouldn't hurt to say number pad [19:34] ok, I will change it to number pad and 3.8.2 [19:36] neversfelde: have you tested it out, does it work fine? [19:36] yesm it works [19:36] but only with KDE 4.3 [19:38] * neversfelde wonders where he got the GPL text without the option [19:40] did you specify -c gpl with dh_make? [19:40] no, I did that manually [19:40] probably I should use dh_make the next time [19:41] ah [19:41] uploaded a new version [19:42] neversfelde: looks good, I'll build it one more time then advocate [19:43] thank you [19:47] neversfelde: good work, advocated [19:48] :) [19:50] neversfelde: Need another advocate? Or are you good? [19:51] is there a bigmem ppa available? or is 64bit the only way to go (would implicate a reinstallation) [19:52] nhandler: if JontheEchidna advocates, too? I am good. [19:52] neversfelde: Ok, just thought I'd offer [19:53] neversfelde: oh, right. got distracted [19:53] nhandler: thanks [19:54] advocated and uploading [19:54] that was fast :) [19:55] JontheEchidna: are new packages uploaded the same as regular packages? [19:55] congrats neversfelde :) [19:55] nellery: yeah, the same sponsorship process and all. The only difference is that you need to forward the acceptance email to ubuntu-motu [19:56] thanks [19:56] ...which reminds me, I need to do that for kcm-gtk [20:00] nellery: Did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New ? [20:02] Oh, you're a new motu? I thought you already had been one. [20:02] Congrats :) [20:05] new as in for about a week [20:05] nhandler: yep, but I don't think that details new packages [20:05] or does it... [20:06] either way, it's the same [20:08] <_Groo_> hi/2 all === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [21:50] Riddell: worked out why i was getting configfile creation errors something is wrong with my /home fs [21:50] "This should not happen.!! Data will be lost [21:51] nice ext4 error [22:01] Danger Shill Robbinson!