[00:00] <lifeless> Peng_: pageant has to kick in once; latency kicks in hundreds of times
[00:01] <lifeless> Peng_: if the CPU is so slow that starting pageant and having it hand a key out once is slower than some hundred * latency, bzr will be having many other issues ;)
[00:01] <RenatoSilva> maybe you want for any reason use http, a shortcut would be nice
[00:01] <RenatoSilva> lph: or so
[00:01] <RenatoSilva> or lpa: for ignoring -lp-login
[00:12] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: the link you asked about in #launchpad is stable, its got the GUIDs embedded
[00:12] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: if you want to point to the most recent version of a file, you can use head: or -1, for the revision component.
[00:14] <RenatoSilva> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Erenatosilva/%2Bjunk/moin.macro.childpages/download/renato_silva-20090620220448-vcluh5vueefsrn2i/childpages.py-20090620220344-3uvqg24v5ninpo1x-1/ChildPages.py
[00:14] <RenatoSilva> where do I put head: ?
[00:16] <Peng_> RenatoSilva: You'd replace the revid, renato_silva-20090620220448-vcluh5vueefsrn2i
[00:16] <Peng_> RenatoSilva: Of course, in a future revision, that file could be deleted, so the URL isn't stable.
[00:16] <Peng_> RenatoSilva: Or it could just be modified into something different.
[00:16] <lifeless> Peng_: well, it would be stable, but not reliable :)
[00:17] <lifeless> and only in the case that the file gets deleted
[00:20] <RenatoSilva> It would be nice to have something simpler like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/+junk/moin.macro.childpages/download/head:/ChildPages.py
[00:30] <RenatoSilva> how do I cancel a bzr add?
[00:30] <RenatoSilva> bzr remove is not working
[00:33] <dash> bzr revert
[00:39] <RenatoSilva> ok thanks
[00:48] <lifeless> mtaylor: dropping by ?
[00:48] <mtaylor> hey lifeless
[00:48] <mtaylor> lifeless, dropping by what?
[00:48] <lifeless> bzr ;P
[00:49] <mtaylor> I'm _always_ in #bzr :)
[00:49] <lifeless> :>
[00:49] <mtaylor> something is unhappy with my laptop
[00:50] <mtaylor> I shut it down and started it again and now nothing seems to be able to find any of my settings
[00:50] <lifeless> ouch
[00:50] <mtaylor> even though the files are in the home dir
[00:50] <mtaylor> like, .mozilla-thunderbird contains an intact profile, but thunderbird can't find it - xchat didn't remember that I want : for nick completion instead of ,
[00:50] <lifeless> check $HOME?
[00:51] <mtaylor> yup: /home/mtaylor
[00:52] <mtaylor> I'm going to blame xfs
[00:52] <mtaylor> I'm pretty sure stewart is wrong about it being any good
[00:53] <mtaylor> this is really going to wind up pissing me off
[00:53] <lifeless> reboot again? :<
[00:53] <mtaylor> already did
[00:54] <lifeless> ah
[00:54] <lifeless> so, its not temporary buffer issues
[00:54] <lifeless> what about perms? xacls?
[00:54] <mtaylor> lifeless: I don't even know how those work
[00:55] <mtaylor> well, I know how perms work
[00:55] <RenatoSilva> thanks everybody
[00:55] <lifeless> I'd find the smallest app that fails; and strace it
[00:57] <mtaylor> well... I'm going to say that the thunderbird problem is that my pref.js file is truncated
[00:57] <lifeless> ah yes
[00:57] <lifeless> thats the 'posix compliant but useless' behaviour we expect from fast file systems.
[00:57] <lifeless> [you've seen the ext4 threads/bugs about this right?]
[00:58] <mtaylor> lifeless: no. ... but I'm running xfs
[00:58] <mtaylor> is this what I get for listening to stew? a fast but useless filesystem?
[00:58] <lifeless> on a laptop, fast and dangerous
[00:58]  * mtaylor throws something in the direction of melbourne
[00:58] <mtaylor> no kidding
[00:58] <lifeless> so here's the basic problem
[00:59] <lifeless> writes are slow
[00:59] <mtaylor> yup
[00:59] <lifeless> apps routinely *don't* fsync or fdsync because it makes ext3 machines die
[01:00] <mtaylor> bleh
[01:00] <lifeless> so, when you do the following: write, close, rename
[01:00] <lifeless> to atomically replace a file foo
[01:01] <lifeless> its possible for the directory link for foo to be flushed to disk without the data for foo
[01:02] <mtaylor> so - when I go to shutdown my system now and it sits there with a blinking cursor for forever, I'm guessing I should _not_ force power it off, because perhaps it's syncing data to disk?
[01:02] <lifeless> yes
[01:02] <mtaylor> ass
[01:02]  * mtaylor is going to re-install without xfs
[01:03] <lifeless> now to be 'correct' you can do
[01:03] <lifeless> fdsync(tmpfile)
[01:03] <lifeless> rename
[01:03] <mtaylor> but noone is doing that, are they?
[01:03] <lifeless> sorry, fsync(tmpfile), rename, fsync(dirfd)
[01:04] <lifeless> people that do it, like FF, make linux desktops incredibly slow
[01:06] <lifeless> its appropriate for server environments do say 'force X to disk' but its not appropriate for most software
[01:06] <lifeless> posix doesn't let you explicitly describe 'file A or file B' except in the roundabout way of the write+rename idiom
[01:07] <lifeless> so when ext4 started routinely hosing peoples configs in the same way
[01:07] <lifeless> there was a huge furor
[01:07] <lifeless> ext4 has been fixed
[01:16] <mtaylor> hrm.
[01:16] <mtaylor> should I perhaps use ext4 instead of xfs?
[01:16] <mtaylor> although - for that matter... why is my _prefs.js_ file _ever_ being written to except when I edit my config?
[01:17] <lifeless> give you one guess
[01:17] <mtaylor> I'd think that after editing a config file, doing a force X to disk would be acceptable
[01:17] <mtaylor> and other times, for things like "last email opened" those could be stored in, oh, I don't know, a separate slightly more acceptably volatile file
[01:17] <lifeless> sure
[01:17]  * mtaylor punches firefox people in the throat
[01:17] <lifeless> but really
[01:18] <lifeless> the main thing is 'all of old, or all of new never just the existence of new'
[01:18] <lifeless> if you need more performance than ext3, I hear ext4 has been shaping up very well
[01:18] <lifeless> and like I say, this pattern is supported on it now
[01:18] <lifeless> ted tso's rants about it not being required by posix aside.
[01:18] <mtaylor> well... it's tough to say - it's a new laptop with better disks anyway
[01:19] <mtaylor> but stewart just keeps carping about how superior xfs is to everything
[01:19] <lifeless> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/108257.html
[01:19] <lifeless> this is worth reading
[01:19] <lifeless> stewart is right *for servers with battery backed up raid and hardware with no driver quirks and none of this 'suspend' bullshit
[01:20] <mtaylor> mmm
[01:20] <mtaylor> I don't have that on my laptop
[01:20] <mtaylor> actualy - with the new video card, suspend works nicely, thank
[01:20] <mtaylor> thanks
[01:21] <mtaylor> on the other hand - I can't seem to get 1600x1050 working, and now there is actually nothing in xorg.conf anymore
[01:21] <mtaylor> so I can't actually fix it
[01:21] <lifeless> is it ubuntu?
[01:21] <mtaylor> when did we stop having useful config files?
[01:21] <mtaylor> yes
[01:21] <lifeless> several releases ago
[01:21] <mtaylor> sigh
[01:21] <lifeless> dpkg-reconfigure xorg-xserver IIRC
[01:21] <mtaylor> yup. doesn't do squat
[01:23] <mtaylor> hrm. that time I got it to add Option		"UseFBDev"		"true"
[01:23] <mtaylor> lets see if that helps...
[01:27] <mtaylor> lifeless: nope
[01:27] <mtaylor> ctrl-alt-backspace seems to not work anymore too, and neither does ctrl-alt-+ or ctrl-alt--
[01:28] <lifeless> cab is disabled by default in recent ubuntu's
[01:28] <lifeless> + and - depend on the virtual size + modes
[01:28] <lifeless> if they are the same, nothing will happen
[01:28] <mtaylor> m. fair enough
[01:29] <lifeless> what driver are you using?
[01:29] <mtaylor> so, where are the available screen resolutions actually configured these days
[01:29] <mtaylor> intel?
[01:29] <lifeless> xrandr
[01:29] <lifeless> you can persist them in Xorg.conf
[01:29] <mtaylor> ah
[01:29] <mtaylor> well, it tells me: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1280 x 800, maximum 1280 x 1280
[01:29] <lifeless> but its all geared around dynamic changes
[02:51] <johnf> LarstiQ: you about?
[02:54] <lifeless> poolie: btw I have a slug membership card for you for this year
[03:05] <lifeless> rockstar: mwhudson: http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/
[03:08] <mwhudson> lifeless: anything in particular?
[03:09] <lifeless> ran into thelink
[03:09] <lifeless> seemed relevant to loggerhead
[03:09] <mwhudson> the only part of paste i'd like to replace is the server, perhaps, and werkzeug doesn't have anything special in that department
[03:09] <lifeless> debugging aspects
[03:09] <mwhudson> (we should look at spawning)
[03:09] <lifeless> if you already know of it, cool
[03:10] <mwhudson> yup
[03:10] <mwhudson> thanks though
[03:42] <nekohayo> hey there, I can't seem to get bazaar to acknowledge that I manually resolve my conflicts
[03:42] <nekohayo> "0 conflict(s) auto-resolved."
[03:42] <nekohayo> what to do at times like this?
[03:44] <nekohayo> oh, seems like doing a bzr resolve the-file instead of just bzr resolve ... solved the problem
[07:51] <Septi> hi
[07:51] <Septi> how can i get a diff from revision 8 to revision 9?
[07:51] <lifeless> diff -c 9, or diff -r 8..9
[07:51] <bialix> bzr diff -r8..9
[07:54] <Septi> lifeless, bialix, thanks
[09:31] <bialix> igc: hi
[09:52] <igc> hi bialix
[10:06] <RenatoSilva> Can I create a "pointer" project? A project which only makes reference to the original one?
[10:21] <garyvdm> Hi igc
[10:51] <igc> hi garyvdm
[12:15] <pygi> nooo, garyvdm is back :p
[12:15]  * pygi hides
[12:16] <garyvdm> Hi pygi
[15:15] <pisecx> Hi, is there any good user-friendly UI for ubuntu?
[15:21] <pygi> pisecx: Olive?
[15:21] <pygi> its included in bzr-gtk package
[15:21] <pisecx> installed, but can not start it
[15:21] <pisecx> ops. started now..
[16:59] <_gpg_> hello
[17:01] <_gpg_> we were using cmsynergy and switched few months a go to subversion. Actually i"m very interested by bazaar
[17:01] <_gpg_>  The "Decentralized with automatic gatekeeper" is what i need with my team actually, i cant find any documentation about how to use/set PQM
[17:25] <magcius> Is there a way to get a diff between two different branches?
[19:39] <kizzo> "bzr rebase ../opencog" errors with NoSuchRevision: KnitPackRepository('file:///home/kizzo/python-bindings/.bzr/repository/') has no revision ('kizzo@crashtest-20090619010527-8dhvulrdodnszrtj',)
[19:41] <kizzo> If anyone would want to try, they can do "bzr branch  lp:opencog; bzr branch lp:~kizzobot/opencog/python-bindings; cd python-bindings; bzr rebase ../opencog".
[20:25] <theAdib> hello folks. I want to push my bzr repo to my web domain using the ftp account. Buz bzr fails. I do not understand where is the error.
[20:25] <theAdib> here is the error message : http://pastebin.com/m11ce7fe4
[20:26] <theAdib> I use bzr on my Ubuntu 8.10.
[20:30] <bialix> try bzr --no-plugins push aftp://web613f1@theadib.net/TDD/trunk
[20:31] <bialix> if it works file a bug against bzr-svn
[20:40] <theAdib> bialix: thx for the hint. Now I come closer. Still some errors:
[20:40] <theAdib> FTP temporary error: 451 /TDD/trunk/.bzr/repository/upload/nax1mcnkw7hpb8bffyso.fetch: Append/Restart not permitted, try again. Retrying.
[20:40] <theAdib> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Error setting up connection: 530 Sorry, we dont allow more than 3 connections per host! 530 Sorry, we dont allow more than 3 connections per host!
[20:41] <theAdib> I tried using aftp// and ftp//
[20:42] <bialix> it seems like your ftp server can't append
[20:43] <bialix> I'm not sure if can workaround this
[20:46] <kizzo> Here is the error I am getting: http://pastebin.com/d4bddf102
[20:58] <bialix> try to pull lp:opencog first
[22:32] <RenatoSilva> it would be nice to bzr push lp:project/*
[22:32] <RenatoSilva> * pull
[22:33] <RenatoSilva> grrr, * branch
[22:33] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: at a project level you need to make a series to do that
[22:34] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: lp:project/series works. as does lp:~user/project/branch
[22:34] <RenatoSilva> I tried lp: ~renatosilva/* but doesn't work
[22:34] <lifeless> oh
[22:34] <lifeless> no, you can't wildcard
[22:41] <RenatoSilva> maybe in the future :)
[22:46] <lifeless> pull pulls from a single branch
[22:47] <lifeless> I'm not sure what it would /mean/ to tell it to pull many branches
[22:47] <lifeless> what do you have in mind?
[22:50] <RenatoSilva> actually I just thought about bzr branch
[22:51] <RenatoSilva> bzr branch lp:/~user/project/* for example would fetch all branches under ~user/project
[22:53] <lifeless> well, we have a planned review of the way bzr presents branches and repos that may make it easier to do things like that
[22:53] <lifeless> not sure that it would end up being spelt identically ;P
[23:00] <meoblast001> hi
[23:00] <meoblast001> if i have a diff, how do i apply it?
[23:00] <meoblast001> have some uncommited code on my laptop
[23:00] <lifeless> is it a plain old diff, or a bundle?
[23:00] <meoblast001> wanted to move it over to my desktop
[23:00] <meoblast001> just a plain diff
[23:01] <lifeless> patch -p0 < diff
[23:01] <meoblast001> ok... thanks
[23:01] <lifeless> myself, I'd usually commit and push it
[23:01] <lifeless> then uncommit on the far end
[23:02] <meoblast001> i didn't finish the feature though
[23:02] <lifeless> doing this can handle more situations than plain old diffs
[23:02] <lifeless> its ok that its not finished - see where I say 'and uncommit on the far end'
[23:04] <meoblast001> lifeless: this way should be easiest as it's just a few changes in a few files
[23:08] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: you mean bzr patch -p0 < diff?
[23:08] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: no
[23:09] <RenatoSilva> ok
[23:09] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: you can do that too, but its generally not needed, and for this case, thigns that plain patch won't handle would still be handled wrong by bzr patch - e.g. file adds would show up as parallel imports
[23:10] <lifeless> meoblast001: a small note if I may - you don't need to finish features to do commits in bzr; because you can have your own branch, you can make as many commits as you want while developing the feature.
[23:10] <meoblast001> yeah i know
[23:10] <meoblast001> just harder to make my own branch
[23:11] <meoblast001> than to pastebin a diff and patch it
[23:11] <glyph> meoblast001: not really
[23:11] <glyph> you could pastebin the output of 'bzr send'
[23:12] <glyph> presumably if you can get the output of 'bzr diff', you already have a branch, it already has changes in it ;)
[23:12] <glyph> actually
[23:12] <lifeless> glyph: he may be working in a checkout
[23:12] <glyph> lifeless: still
[23:12] <lifeless> glyph: or there may be other factors
[23:13] <glyph> oh I didn't even see the earlier scrollback
[23:13] <glyph> meoblast001: one of the reasons I love bzr is exactly that case
[23:13] <glyph> moving code from my laptop to my desktop
[23:13] <glyph> I do it by doing 'bzr push bzr+ssh://my-desktop/home/me/mybranch'
[23:15] <Sheepherd> hi all... just trying to get the GUI working but i dont know where to "After this, you can start the GUI by typing olive-gtk" :/
[23:15] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: OS?
[23:15] <Sheepherd> win xp 32bit
[23:15] <Sheepherd> sp 3
[23:16] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: start > run
[23:16] <Sheepherd> thats all?
[23:16] <meoblast001> ssh was the easiest way by far
[23:17] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: I'm not sure what's olive-gtk tough, but that's how I'd read the message. I just tried and didn't work here :P
[23:18] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: what are you doing, installing bazaar?
[23:18] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: followed every step here correctly: http://bazaar-vcs.org/WindowsInstall
[23:18] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: yea exactly
[23:19] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: olive-gtk comes from the 2nd last line of the site
[23:19] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: oh I had a bit of trouble setting up bzr on my win xp to.
[23:19] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: just forget all of this, undo everything.
[23:20] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: then use http://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/1.16/1.16/+download/bzr-setup-1.16-1.exe
[23:20] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: :/
[23:20] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: next, nextm finish, and you're [almost] done
[23:21] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: this installer has an embedded python
[23:21] <Sheepherd> ya thats why i didnt use it
[23:21] <Sheepherd> cuz i already have python
[23:23] <RenatoSilva> well, I have python too, but I had some trouble setting it up separately
[23:24] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: hope this proceeds smoothly now ...
[23:24] <RenatoSilva> I read that page too, which is confusing imho, but I'm fine now after just installing the all-in-one
[23:26] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: what would you like bazaar for? launchpad by any chance?
[23:27] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: first time hearing about that. but someone from #python recommened some svcs or how those tools are called to get a good overview over changes made to my app
[23:28] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: never heard of vcs or dvcs?
[23:28] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: ok installed the whole thing... how do i access the gui now?
[23:29] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: yea dvcs... thats what i meant :) and i never heard about that until like 30mins
[23:29] <RenatoSilva> did you get the idea of dvcs?
[23:30] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: something to trace down changes made to a file?
[23:31] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: useful links...
[23:31] <RenatoSilva> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control
[23:31] <RenatoSilva> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_revision_control
[23:32] <RenatoSilva> http://ianclatworthy.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/dvcs-why-and-how3.pdf
[23:33] <RenatoSilva> When you're done with the overview of vcs and dvcs, you can read the 5 minutes tutorial for Bazaar: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[23:34] <RenatoSilva> and to learn more, the user guide: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[23:34] <mwhudson> jelmer: does bzr-git 0.4.0 require a new dulwich?
[23:36] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: thx :) and where should all those lead me to?
[23:36] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: was bazaar the wrong choice for me?
[23:37] <lifeless> Sheepherd: bazaar is a fine choice for you; but you've just started to learn a new tool. VCS tools are not about inspecting your current code, they are about controlling it [and reporting] over time
[23:39] <Sheepherd> lifeless: k... hope ill get used to this new system soon
[23:39] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: have you even used any vcs tool before?
[23:40] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: nope, today is even the first day i heard about that
[23:40] <Sheepherd> first time*
[23:43] <Sheepherd> RenatoSilva: why are u asking?
[23:43] <lifeless> Sheepherd: it helps us understand the things you already know, so we don't tell you too little or too much
[23:43] <RenatoSilva> Sheepherd: humm, try having some time to read the links, in the order I mentioned. I think this can avoid many trouble
[23:43] <Sheepherd> k thx both of you :)
[23:44] <Sheepherd> gonna read them carefully tomorrow
[23:44] <RenatoSilva> :)
[23:44] <Sheepherd> should be sleeping already xD
[23:45] <Sheepherd> im off then... thx again and cya tomorrow maybe
[23:46] <RenatoSilva> bye