[00:15] <Mamarok> we really need to get rid of that pulseaudio installation by default, it only causes trouble with phonon
[00:16] <apachelogger> Mamarok: mail the list, AFAIK it is actualyl considered to unify the audio stack of kubuntu and ubuntu
[00:16] <apachelogger> i.e. switch to pulse + gst
[00:17] <Mamarok> arghs, are they totally mad?
[00:28] <lex79> apachelogger: switch to pulse? have you drunk? :P
[00:35] <apachelogger> well
[00:36] <apachelogger> I remember reading something about it
[00:36] <apachelogger> pre-uds
[00:38] <maco> aye
[00:38] <maco> at uds daniel and um....someone, forget who...were talking about getting the phonon gstreamer backend fixed up so kubuntu could work better with pulse
[00:38] <maco> because ya know...if you install java...you get pulse. if you upgrade...you get pulse
[00:39] <maco> was not rod, was not tonio, was not jr...
[00:39] <dtchen> rgreening and i discussed it.
[00:39] <maco> oh ok was rod then
[00:39] <apachelogger> all buggies
[00:39] <dtchen> (so yes, it was rod)
[00:40] <apachelogger> getting something that shouldn't be there is a bug, bug, bug :P
[00:40] <dtchen> apachelogger: yes, i found it through testing on the day before jaunty's release
[00:40] <dtchen> apparently no one was testing that upgrade path
[00:40] <apachelogger> *nod*
[00:40] <maco> apachelogger, its not a bug that java requires pulse
[00:41] <maco> apachelogger, you have to install the server version of java to not get pulse
[00:41] <apachelogger> maco: like when I install java on suse I get pulse?
[00:41] <maco> because the not-server version does sound stuffs
[00:41] <maco> dunno. yast scared me away a couple years ago.
[00:41] <dtchen> Mamarok: / lex79: it will land in a ppa long before it ever lands in Kubuntu proper
[00:42] <apachelogger> maco: so, if I download the java bins from java.com I won't have sound unless pulse is installed?
[00:43] <maco> maybe?
[00:43] <maco> um....dan, who was the guy that was explaining this? that server guy?
[00:43] <apachelogger> well, I see why the server version does not support audio
[00:43] <apachelogger> makes perfect sense
[00:43] <apachelogger> I don't see why java depends on pulse considering 99% of the linux distros do not include it in the default stack :P
[00:43] <dtchen> i can't speak for pristine upstream binaries
[00:44] <maco> dtchen, guy we went to that cafe with on the sunday of uds
[00:44] <apachelogger> would be kinda bad business module from sun ;-)
[00:45] <nixternal> apachelogger: no, you get java in opensuse w/o pulse, they package correctly there :)
[00:45] <apachelogger> so we are back to my original statement: "bug, bug, bug" :P
[00:45] <maco> maybe their java doesnt have pulse support compiled in then
[00:45] <nixternal> well of course :)
[00:46] <nixternal> I sure don't want pulse support, don't need that garbage
[00:46] <nixternal> one less bug for me to worry about
[00:46] <maco> but the gnome users need pulse support
[00:46] <nixternal> or a hundred less bugs for me to worry about
[00:46] <maco> yes, pulseaudio does help find and eliminate bugs, that is correct, nixternal
[00:46]  * maco hides
[00:46] <nixternal> pfft
[00:47] <maco> dtchen, how many bugs did it pin down in hda last year?
[00:47] <nixternal> if only pulseaudio had a pulse, but it doesn't , it has flatlined, someone call the morgue!
[00:47] <apachelogger> maco: my point is: either java should plugin the audiostack like phonon or our package needs two binaries
[00:47] <apachelogger> one with everything needed for pulse and one for alsa
[00:47] <apachelogger> in a double-build method
[00:48] <maco> you can do that?
[00:48] <apachelogger> course
[00:48] <nixternal> apachelogger: figured you would have been using the java bins from java.com...that's what I have been doing quite some time, as it took me a bit to realize wth pulse kept getting on my puter
[00:48] <apachelogger> that is the point of having such a PITA make-like system :P
[00:48] <apachelogger> nixternal: I don't use java at all
[00:48] <dtchen> the bug is actually in jaunty's release notes
[00:48] <nixternal> then when trying to watch youtube or something, and I would go back before a video ended, stuff went haywire and pulse was sitting there heating up my toaster...err, I mean CPU
[00:48] <apachelogger> well, I use it on my cell, but then again that is not official java AFAIK :D
[00:48] <Mamarok> apachelogger: mail is out
[00:49] <dtchen> nixternal: that's not pulse's fault, that's Flash's.
[00:49] <nixternal> as soon as I kill pulse though it comes back
[00:49] <apachelogger> java+flash+alsa = works
[00:49] <nixternal> and I can continue using flash
[00:49] <apachelogger> java+flash+pulse+alsa != works
[00:49] <apachelogger> somehow I doubt that statement :P
[00:49] <nixternal> s/pulse/flatline/ :p
[00:50] <Mamarok> and just FYI, gstreamer currently is not usable for Amarok, as it is a bag of bugs...
[00:50] <nixternal> Mamarok: but arts does? :P
[00:50] <Nightrose> dtchen: you have no idea how many bug reports we get because of pulseaudio - it's not even funny - getting this into kubuntu by default will result in a huge outcry by at least one upstream team
[00:51] <Nightrose> i guess more than one though
[00:51] <nixternal> aye, not by default?
[00:51] <apachelogger> nixternal: arts is as flatline as it can get :P
[00:51] <nixternal> where did this come from?
[00:51] <Mamarok> nixternal: Phonon + the Xine backend is working well enough for the KDE sound applications, yes, but half of the Amarok bug reports we get are gstreamer related
[00:51] <nixternal> please tell me I am having a nightmare right now
[00:51] <Nightrose> nixternal: you seem to be quite awake
[00:51] <dtchen> Nightrose: on the contrary, i do know. and guess who gets the brunt of the pulseaudio bugs?
[00:51] <nixternal> oh lord
[00:51] <apachelogger> you know
[00:51] <apachelogger> if I wasn't whining so much
[00:51] <Nightrose> dtchen: heh - welcome to the club then
[00:52] <apachelogger> we would have shipped intrepid with gstreamer :P
[00:52] <Nightrose> indeed
[00:52] <Nightrose> *sigh*
[00:52] <dtchen> people can continue whining about pulseaudio, but no one's jumping in to fix it.
[00:52] <dtchen> sure, just continue to whine about it. it's not your problem. it's mine, eh?
[00:52] <apachelogger> the thing is
[00:52] <Nightrose> dtchen: question is if it needs fixing/can be fixed or if it should be abandoned
[00:52] <apachelogger> as I understand it
[00:52] <apachelogger> flatline is a workaround
[00:52] <Nightrose> if you ask me the latter
[00:52] <apachelogger> a workaround for alsa not always doing what it should do
[00:53] <apachelogger> so instead of fixing alsa you whined and then pulled a condom ontop of it :P
[00:53] <dtchen> alsa is broken. pulseaudio is broken. just because you aren't hitting the bugs with alsa strictly does not mean alsa is not broken.
[00:53] <Mamarok> well, my advice is to really get advice from the KDE sound people before deciding to use pulse+gstreamer, and the advice will not be positive actually
[00:53] <rgreening> hey dtchen
[00:53] <dtchen> foss is full of people whining about crap they don't understand. i've had it.
[00:53] <Mamarok> far from that
[00:54]  * apachelogger ain't just getting the usecase for flatline, maybe someone could fill him in?
[00:54] <Mamarok> well, there seem to be half of Fluendo attending Guadec, we should get hold of them and urge them to fix their stuff
[00:54] <Mamarok> but I guess they are not interested to do so, as they try to ship their own media player
[00:54] <nixternal> Nightrose: for real, there is talk about getting pulseaudio by default in Kubuntu?
[00:54] <nixternal> I haven't heard that before
[00:54] <Nightrose> seems so
[00:55] <nixternal> that's nuts
[00:55] <Nightrose> it is
[00:55] <nixternal> I don't want it in Kubuntu
[00:55] <nixternal> not yet at least
[00:55] <Nightrose> me neither ;-)
[00:55] <Mamarok> well, the general advice from KDE is "no" AFAIK, and it's not going to change that fast
[00:55] <Nightrose> not as long as we get 5 people each day with pulse audio problems for amarok alone
[00:56] <nixternal> bugs.kde.org, I would say 90% of audio related problems listed have the word pulseaudio attached
[00:56]  * Nightrose bets it is more than that
[00:56] <nixternal> look at Fedora and Pulse, they are getting creamed by the bug reports and their community for it
[00:56] <Nightrose> the rest has gstreamer in them
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> we on the other hand are getting creamed for teh crapz0r intel drivers :D
[00:56] <Mamarok> Nightrose: I have at least 2 people per day in #kubuntu and #kubuntu-de with pulse problems
[00:56] <rgreening> peeps, let's try not to piss dtchen off. he's a valua ble resource we need helping us...
[00:56] <nixternal> yet again, not our fault
[00:57] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: reason not to add anther problem ;-)
[00:57] <Nightrose> rgreening: heh that wasn't the intention at all
[00:57] <nixternal> rgreening: not trying to piss him off, but i think putting pulseaudio in kubuntu is flat out suicide
[00:57] <Nightrose> he's doing good work i'm sure
[00:57] <nixternal> worse than us abondoning kde 3 last year
[00:57] <Nightrose> +1 nixternal
[00:57] <apachelogger> well
[00:57] <nixternal> it is the dumbest spec I have heard of, and at this time I cannot support it
[00:58] <nixternal> dan thinks he has bugs now, just wait until kubuntu adopts pulseaudio...that number will double in no time
[00:58] <rgreening> nixternal: have you tried recently or is this speculation on recent past?
[00:59] <nixternal> talk about tiring..I am tired of people telling us to fix amarok to make pulse audio work, it should be fix pulse audio to work with amarok
[00:59] <Mamarok> nixternal: just send all the supporters of pulseaudio into #kubuntu for the sound support, that might open a few eyes for sure...
[00:59] <Nightrose> rgreening: very recent support in #amarok #kde and #kubuntu
[00:59] <nixternal> rgreening: I uninstall pulseaudio almost weekly because it sneaks in some how
[00:59] <nixternal> yes, I have tried it recently and it is still a steaming pile of shit
[00:59] <maco> nixternal, do you really think he doesnt get hit with pulse/kde bugs already, given that upgraders &lse?
[00:59] <Mamarok> I debugged 3 people today, 2 in Amarok, 1 in kubuntu
[00:59] <nixternal> in kde that is
[00:59] <Mamarok> and it was a quiet day...
[01:00] <nixternal> maco: I know he does, and that is a small list compared to what would happen if we put it into a stable release
[01:00]  * apachelogger still didn't get the rationale for flatline :P
[01:00] <maco> pulse works fine in kde for me
[01:00] <maco> the only issue i've had turnd out to be a bug in a PPA-packed swfdec flash plugin
[01:00] <nixternal> rgreening: check out the shit that fedora took for putting in pulse audio
[01:00] <nixternal> they did the right thing I believe and promptly removed that crap from the next release
[01:00] <Nightrose> maco: join us in #amarok #kde and #kubuntu for some PA fun ;-)
[01:00] <maco> nixternal, the # of upgraders + # of java users...you think that's a minority?
[01:01] <nixternal> the devs have been creating pulse on GNOME pretty much the entire time
[01:01] <Mamarok> well, mail is sent, now it's up to the distros to ge their mind made up
[01:01] <maco> apachelogger, you can do a lot of stuff using pulse that is *black magic* with plain ol' alsa
[01:01] <nixternal> maco: yes it is
[01:01] <apachelogger> nixternal: as I understand it pulse is meant to replace esound, so that makes sense
[01:01] <maco> nixternal, i thought people with java installed were a majority?
[01:01] <rgreening> I think dtchen is looking to test everything and try and fix bugs (with upstream). AND IF IT WORKS, INTEGRATE...
[01:01] <apachelogger> maco: does the user need that "stuff"?
[01:01] <Mamarok> maco: and you can use Amarok without problems? Lucky you then
[01:01] <nixternal> maco: you are right, but that black magic is nothing more than a black spot on the road when it comes to KDE because pulse devs haven't worked with it on KDE until recently
[01:01] <nixternal> until distros starting mucking up kde with pulse
[01:02] <nixternal> right now, pulse and kde do not blend, and until it does, it shouldn't even be considered
[01:02] <maco> Mamarok, i rarely use amarok because dan's always got his music playing, but yeah, never had a problem with it
[01:02] <nixternal> I mean wth, didn't Ubuntu and other GNOME distros that went with pulse take enough flack already?
[01:03] <nixternal> why subject yet another distro to it
[01:03] <maco> nixternal, ubuntu has always shipped alsa drivers & libraries that were too outdated
[01:03] <nixternal> maco: outdated and worked
[01:03] <maco> nixternal, also, broken configurations because configs that *would* have mitigated a number of issues would've T'd off upstream
[01:03] <nixternal> you can't sell me pulse audio right now, don't care what you do
[01:03] <maco> nixternal, too outdated for the version of pulse included
[01:03] <Mamarok> maco: well, come and spend some time in the help channels, this could be quite interesting for you
[01:03] <maco> and no, alsa has never worked
[01:03] <maco> s/worked/worked well/
[01:03] <nixternal> well, amarok always worked until that crap called pulse came onto my machine
[01:04] <nixternal> adn when I went to, Nightrose or Mamarok maybe, the first thing they told me was to do 'dpkg -l pulse*'
[01:04] <maco> a large portion of bugs seen with pulse are driver bugs
[01:04] <nixternal> I don't even think I hit enter on my keyboard when they brought that up
[01:04] <maco> pulse turns out to be good at creating reproducible test cases for bug reports that've been open the better part of a decade
[01:04] <nixternal> that's great it helps with bug reports, but Kubuntu doesn't need any more bug reports..we are swamped with them already
[01:05] <nixternal> we don't have the millions of eyeballs that Ubuntu has and the many thousands of active contributors that Ubuntu has
[01:05] <Mamarok> maco: well if you have a panicking user who is shocked that the system tells him his sound card was removed, and it's just pulseaudio hogging the sound and not a hardware defect
[01:05] <nixternal> if we have 25 people, active right now, we would be lucky
[01:05] <maco> Mamarok, since when does phonon do *that*?
[01:05] <maco> phonon just says it couldnt get the sound card and is falling back to pulse
[01:05] <nixternal> Mamarok: damn, that is why I keep getting that popup?
[01:06] <nixternal> I couldn't figure that out for the life of me
[01:06] <Mamarok> maco: happends only with pulseaudio
[01:06]  * nixternal fires up the laptop to uninstall pulse yet again
[01:06] <maco> i dont think it says the sound card was removed
[01:06] <Mamarok> but then, all the time, seen that so often I forgot to count
[01:06] <nixternal> maco: yes it does actually
[01:06] <maco> i thought it just said it was falling back to pulseaudio
[01:06] <Nightrose> it does
[01:06] <nixternal> and then it says "Trying to fall back to ?
[01:06] <maco> it works well when it does that...
[01:07] <Mamarok> so far I must have debugged sound for hundreds of users with that problem, if I count an average of 2 per day, but it's probably more
[01:07] <nixternal> no, it tells me my Intel HDA was removed, trying to fall back to some other piece of hardware
[01:07] <Mamarok> and those are only the ones I see on IRC
[01:07] <nixternal> i never brought it up Mamarok because I just thought that was due to typical development jitters
[01:07] <Mamarok> nixternal: and it usually falls back to nothing, hence no sound
[01:07] <nixternal> exactly
[01:08] <nixternal> happens to me probably 5 to 10 times a day
[01:08] <nixternal> wth, how is pulse back on my laptop, I have removed it once already this week
[01:08] <Mamarok> guess what I thought when I had this on a brand new laptop...
[01:08] <nixternal> right, and I actually did consider that my sound card was bad at first
[01:08] <Mamarok> because then comes a message "Your card seems not to be installed anymore, do you want to remove it permanently?"
[01:08] <nixternal> but it was working flawlessly in Arch and openSUSE
[01:09] <nixternal> ahhhh, yes that is my favorite error
[01:09] <nixternal> Mamarok: well then, I think we should install Pulse by default, everyone should permanently remove their card :p
[01:09] <Mamarok> I was that close to call Lenovo and insult them to have shipped that crap, but I fired up Windows and it worked...
[01:10] <nixternal> see, I fire up other distros, windows has this uncanny ability to actually make hardware that is bad actually work
[01:10] <apachelogger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/CleanupAudioJumble
[01:10] <nixternal> on my one laptop, windows will run fine on it, but in linux the graphics show the truth
[01:11] <Mamarok> so far Jaunty was the worst I had, sound problems, no ATI driver any more for my card since Alpha 5 and wireless not working by default and impossible to configure a printer otherwise than with cups
[01:11] <nixternal> that's an old spec though
[01:11] <apachelogger> well
[01:11] <nixternal> dans comments about Kubuntu continuing to use arts attests to that :)
[01:11] <apachelogger> I was interested in the use csaes
[01:12] <apachelogger> nixternal: indeed
[01:12] <apachelogger> that being said, I don't like soundservers for a good reason ;-)
[01:12] <nixternal> I understand having just 1 audio stack would be nice
[01:12] <nixternal> but is there that 1 audio stack?
[01:13] <nixternal> I don't think there is right now
[01:13] <Mamarok> nixternal: just one "working" audio stack is nice, yes, but the "working" is not there...
[01:13] <apachelogger> nixternal: well, as I see it, the target is to push it along
[01:14]  * apachelogger is wondering why always OSX is the reference point of ubuntu stuff though :P
[01:14] <maco> bah y'all weren't at UDS
[01:14] <rgreening> sometimes effort is worth more than complaining.
[01:14] <nixternal> I understand pushing it along, but not at the expense of our distro
[01:14] <Mamarok> apachelogger: that's why this mail is important, as it will hopefully provoke an outcry by the KDE folks
[01:14] <rgreening> exactly maco :)
[01:14] <Mamarok> Nightrose: should I forward it to some KDE list?
[01:14] <nixternal> maco and rgreening: then enlighten us?
[01:14] <ryanakca> apachelogger: libqinfinity got rejected from Debian, "-dev package is missing the .so symlink"...
[01:15] <maco> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/UDS-Barcelona/Audio_Madness.odp
[01:15] <maco> look in there
[01:15] <nixternal> prove to us that pulse audio is the way to go? nobody can do it
[01:15] <nixternal> I have already checked that out
[01:15] <maco> there's a chart showing how the audio stack looks now (awful) and how it can be streamlined/simplified
[01:15] <nixternal> not even the pulse audio people can do it, and you can google for the communications on the kde mailing lists concerning that
[01:15] <Nightrose> Mamarok: nah not yet
[01:15] <Mamarok> maco: if I could have manged to go, I would certainly
[01:15] <rgreening> nixternal: this isn't a proven at this point. however, I agreed to help dtchen. more than anyone else has done
[01:15] <nixternal> and you can look over the amarok mailing list concerning it as well, as it seems they get hit harder than the rest of kde for it
[01:16] <nixternal> rgreening: that is fine, but introducing a turd to Kubuntu isn't nice
[01:16] <nixternal> when pulse audio devs fix their stuff to work with Kubuntu, then yes, I will get jiggy with it
[01:16] <rgreening> who said it would be defacto.. needs testing, fixing and proof of concept first.
[01:16] <maco> nixternal, did you not see what rgreening said about testing it and fixing it in a PPA and *when its ready* integrating it?
[01:16] <nixternal> when pulse comes and says "you need to do this and that" which ends up breaking our other support in KDE, I don't get jiggy with it
[01:16] <rgreening> nixternal: is simply rage blind now
[01:16] <Mamarok> rgreening: half of the Amarok devs use Kubuntu, and forcing pulseaudio on them will make them change distro immediately, for sure...
[01:17] <rgreening> or drunk
[01:17] <nixternal> rgreening: that is cool, I didn't see that when you said it
[01:17] <rgreening> :)
[01:17] <apachelogger> rgreening: seriously though, don't you think there is more useful stuff to do these days?
[01:17] <nixternal> apachelogger: +100
[01:17] <apachelogger> these days ranging from now til 2011 or something like that ;-)
[01:17] <rgreening> I only agreed to test and help debug or fix. If we can make it work and proove it works, we can looj at introducing...
[01:17] <Mamarok> ok, done my work for today, bed calls
[01:17] <Mamarok> gn8 everyone :)
[01:17] <nixternal> pulse audio testing should be done with KDE and not Kubuntu, who here is going to fix everything and put it upstream with getting a lashing?
[01:18] <nixternal> g'nite Mamarok
[01:18] <rgreening> apachelogger: you have your vices and I have mine :)
[01:18] <nixternal> s/with/without/
[01:18] <maco> nixternal, i think dan intends to try to fix a lot of the issues
[01:18] <maco> i'm up for helping try to fix them, though i havent learned any of that code yet...he's only shown me kernely things
[01:19] <apachelogger> rgreening: yeah, just saying
[01:19] <Mamarok> maco: it's not only pulseaudio, gstreamer is not usable for Amarok so far
[01:19]  * Mamarok really goes to bed now
[01:19] <maco> Mamarok, he does every level of the audio stack
[01:19] <nixternal> right, I am one of those people that Linus described perfectly, "There are a lot of people who don't care how the kernel works, they just care that it works" :p
[01:19] <nixternal> that is me, staying away from kernel code ;p
[01:20] <nixternal> there are enough people with no personal life working on the kernel already, I will sit here and bug you instead ;p
[01:20] <maco> he doesnt seem interested in teaching me more kernely things...he says i need to go get some hardware data sheets and memorize them and their errata
[01:21] <nixternal> see, tequila makes my clothes fall off
[01:21] <nixternal> can't memorize that stuff
[01:21] <nixternal> I will be downing some tequila shortly hoping to numb the jelly that are called legs right now
[01:22] <nixternal> 215 miles in 2 days on the ol' bicycle has quite a few places wishing they had feeling, and some wishing they didn't have feeling
[01:31]  * claydoh fels proud he did 4 miles on his bike
[01:37] <nixternal> claydoh: http://www.horriblyhilly.com/home.html  <- that's what I did yesterday
[01:37] <apachelogger> ryanakca: if it gets through our new we can fix it right away :P
[01:37] <nixternal> it was so painful
[01:37] <apachelogger> => bed
[01:37] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I'll fix the debian version , did you want a link to the fixed one?
[01:37] <claydoh> nixternal: the url, alone scares me away :)
[01:38] <nixternal> if you like hills! You'd better, because you'll be going up over 40 significant rises, from 50 ft bumps to the 910 ft final climb, for a total of 10,700 feet of elevation gain.
[01:38] <nixternal> in a few weeks I am doing the Insane Terrain Challenge
[01:40] <claydoh> I couldn't do hiils even whan I was 22, 180 lbs, and had a home built basso-framed bike :(
[01:41] <claydoh> that was 22 yrs and 130lbs ago :(
[01:41] <claydoh> but the 4 miles is doable for me, and it is helping get the pounds off :)
[01:43] <nixternal> that rocks...I was hoping to get competitive in riding, but I am realizing, I suck
[01:44] <claydoh> as long as it is fun :)
[01:44] <nixternal> ya, I am really enjoying the endurance runs, which I still suck at, but it is a lot of fun...I am a cycling nut
[01:44] <nixternal> go by bike!
[01:45] <claydoh> I can ride home from work (4.2 miles) but the ride into work is too uphill for me at the moment
[01:46] <nixternal> gotta take the hills slowly at first....my mom and dad just started riding, and once my dad realized that if he pushes himself a bit he can do 20+ miles, and he is big ol' boy as well
[01:46] <claydoh> the busses here all have bike racks, cool considering the small sie o the area
[01:47] <claydoh> small size of the area
[01:47] <nixternal> my mom, who has had health issue after health issue, bitched and moaned and said she couldn't do it, and since I have a Trek sponsorship, I got her a Trek Navigator 2.0 WSD...her first day out she did 5 miles...she scared the hell out of me though
[01:47] <claydoh> my gary fisher has a megadrive sooper dooper low gear
[01:47] <nixternal> woohoo, Gary is da man!
[01:48] <nixternal> do you have a GF after Trek purchased it?
[01:48] <nixternal> or is it an older GF?
[01:48] <claydoh> its only his cheapest model, but itm rocks
[01:48] <claydoh> after
[01:48] <nixternal> even his cheapest model is better than most
[01:48] <nixternal> ya, so it is a good cheap model at least
[01:49] <nixternal> I got to see one of his facilities up in wisconsin last year
[01:49] <claydoh> yeah, light enough, stong enough not to flex under my weight, too :)
[01:49] <nixternal> ya, the GFs and the Trek Navs are some sturdy bikes
[01:49] <claydoh> tho I did break the cheap [lasticky derailleur
[01:49] <nixternal> my dad went with a Trek Nav 2.0 only because it matched the color of his Psion XB :)
[01:50] <claydoh> :)
[01:50] <claydoh> mine is a mako, good deal used for 50 bucks :)
[01:50] <nixternal> he is starting to realize he wants a bit more than the nav and is looking at the 7300 line of Trek bikes now
[01:50] <nixternal> whoa
[01:50] <claydoh> err 150
[01:50] <claydoh> half price
[01:50] <nixternal> still that is a damn good price
[01:51] <claydoh> yes :)
[01:51] <nixternal> with bontrager components it should be good for a long time
[01:51] <claydoh> solid , no suspension
[01:51] <nixternal> I really want a Gary Fisher 29er for some off road stuff
[01:52] <claydoh> so do I
[01:52] <claydoh> though I'd take a good hybrid model of some sort
[01:53] <nixternal> if you are into hybrid, check out the trek navigators
[01:53] <nixternal> is this an attack of sabdfl or what?
[01:54] <claydoh> its normal I think, seems to always hace connection problems or someghing
[01:54] <nixternal> http://fisherbikes.com/bike/model/superfly  <- that is the bike I drool over
[01:55]  * claydoh drools
[01:56] <nixternal> I don't like the Trek 29er, though I would go with a Trek Elite 9.9 SSL for hard tail or the Trek Top Fuel 9.9 SSL for a suspension ride
[05:55] <DaskreeCH> Are audio previews in KDE 4.3 suppsoed to work?
[05:59] <DaskreeCH> in dolphin
[12:18] <apachelogger> is it me, or is nano pretty limited alright?
[12:41] <smarter> apachelogger: nah
[12:41] <smarter> nano's cool
[12:41] <smarter> what are you missing?
[12:41] <apachelogger> everything? :P
[12:41] <apachelogger> any intro guide on that thingy?
[12:42] <apachelogger> and will reading the guide take longer than compiling vim? :P
[12:43] <smarter> no intro guide needed, you have all the options displayed on the bottom
[12:43] <smarter> just tweak /etc/nanorc to enable color highlighting and other nice stuff
[12:44] <apachelogger> ehm
[12:44] <apachelogger> seriously
[12:44] <apachelogger> if those are all the options...
[12:48] <smarter> that's all I need for a quick hack (:
[12:49]  * smarter is trying to learn Emacs to code in Lisp right now :P
[12:49] <apachelogger> emacs
[12:49] <apachelogger> *shudder*
[12:50] <apachelogger> man, so many things to do ... I need more spare time
[12:51] <smarter> agreed
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> WTF::HashTraits<DOM::DOMStringImpl*> <- Lol @ class name
[13:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you think http://patches.ubuntu.com/k/kde4libs/extracted/17_findservicebydesktoppath_try_realfilepath.diff could be cuains bug 381599
[13:36] <apachelogger> *causing even
[13:36] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 381599 in koffice2 "kword fails to start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381599
[13:37] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[13:38] <JontheEchidna> is this reproducable on debian then?
[13:38] <apachelogger> yes
[13:38] <apachelogger> google suggests that only debian and ubuntu are affected
[13:38] <apachelogger> so it either is some patch we inherit from debian or we are the only ones getting bug reports ;-)
[13:39]  * JontheEchidna nods
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> sounds like a plausible theory
[13:39] <apachelogger> not worth anything without proof though :D
[13:40] <apachelogger> also, I find it kinda weird that sycoca manages to get the application's desktop file but then fails on the kpart
[13:41] <apachelogger> the file attached to comment 11 suggests that kbuildsycoca was not running at all for quite some time
[13:41] <apachelogger> all very weird TBH
[13:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you happen to have a 8.10 vm? ;-)
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> nein
[13:43] <apachelogger> get one then :P
[13:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: qt should use lzma :P
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> it does ^.^
[13:52] <apachelogger> sweet
[13:52] <apachelogger> it does?
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> since 4.5.0-0ubuntu1
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> jr did it
[13:53] <apachelogger> indeed
[13:53] <apachelogger> nice
[13:59]  * JontheEchidna has a strigi SRU to do
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: would you mind confirming the nomination for bug 336161?
[14:02] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 336161 in strigi "Crashes on right click properties(Jaunty)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336161
[14:03] <JontheEchidna> Technically its fix released now in strigi 0.6.5, but I didn't want to lose the bug
[14:19] <seele> the x config is autogenerated, we don't provide a default config, correct? trying to figure out what to do about bug 388399
[14:20] <seele> bug 388399
[14:20] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 388399 in hundredpapercuts "Resolution change to auto after restart X windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388399
[14:21] <apachelogger> nvidia panel = the nvidial settings gui
[14:21] <apachelogger> so pretty unrelated to KDE
[14:21]  * apachelogger is not sure that the nvidia settings gui is open source
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> nvidia uses xorg.conf
[14:23] <apachelogger> seele: to answer your qustion: we provide a default config, though it is as empty as it can be (it basically just includes section headers and that is it)
[14:24] <apachelogger> the problem appears to be that the nvidia panel is not writing that modes "xxx" stuff to the xorg.conf
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> it looks to be open source, btw
[14:24]  * ScottK hopes the nvidia thing knows what to do when xorg.conf is empty.
[14:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: otherwise there would be loads of bug reports already ;-)
[14:25] <txwikinger_work> plasma-desktop in 4.3 beta2 is quite a step back for me
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: thoughts on bug 358792? it's fixed in karmic but not in jaunty
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> I never did figure it out
[14:26] <txwikinger_work> Is there any way I can configure it to get the old behaviour for grouping in the task bar?
[14:26] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 358792 in kdenetwork "kget plasma applets not working" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358792
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: basically it was being compiled, but not showing up in list-missing
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> was list-missing bugged?
[14:28] <apachelogger> possible
[14:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: or we just didn't look? :P
[14:30] <apachelogger> IIRC list-missing goes through the cdbs created files list and checks everything is present there
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> I checked, list-missing was empty
[14:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did it say: all files installed to $foobar?
[14:31] <apachelogger> or did it say nothing?
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> I don't recall, that was a few months ago
[14:33] <apachelogger> well, if you want to know you'll have to rebuild the broken package
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> it might have said nothing
[14:33] <apachelogger> preferrably manually in the chroot so you can execute list-missing manually and trace the issue
[14:33] <apachelogger> either list-missing is bugged or something in the setup was b0rked
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> just throw something in to make it fail, then remove that and continue the build :D
[14:34] <apachelogger> if pbuilder had sensible design :P
[14:34] <apachelogger> rewriting it in decent language is still on my todo
[14:55] <seele> rickspencer3: re: hundredpapercuts, what do i do after i confirm bugs?
[15:00] <rickspencer3> seele: I guess you get people to fix them?
[15:01] <seele> hrm.. Riddell is away for a bit, he usually knows who does stuff
[15:12] <rickspencer3> seele: do you have a link for the paper cuts?
[15:14] <seele> rickspencer3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.tag=hundredpaperkuts
[15:14] <seele> there are a few really easy ones that can be fixed right away, but they aren't something i can do.
[15:14] <seele> i could probably write to the dev mailing list and people could pick it up.. hum
[15:15] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I think things like 100 papercuts would be better if they defined themselves as Ubuntu = the Ubuntu project, not Ubuntu = one desktop flavor.  The fact that the term is overloaded sometimes is confusing.
[16:00] <JontheEchidna> whoa, the user avatar code in kickoff is funky
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> "if you find a user avatar pic, use it, otherwise use the standard "search" icon"
[16:15] <apachelogger> ScottK: I find it confusing everytime
[16:15] <apachelogger> only the context provides information as to what is its real meaning
[16:16] <apachelogger> seele: didn't bug 389658 get discussed at uds?
[16:16]  * ScottK doesn't see that as a papercut.
[16:16]  * apachelogger also notes that it is in particular diffcult to do that with the kubuntu logo because it got transparency all around :D
[16:17]  * ScottK wished shtylman were here.  He's been talking to upstream about artwork stuff.
[16:17] <nixternal> good morning kubufreakz
[16:17] <apachelogger> hoy
[16:19] <nixternal> ok, so should we tackle some paperkuts today? which ones can I do?
[16:19]  * JontheEchidna is tackling the kickoff user icon one
[16:20] <apachelogger> hm
[16:20] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmmmm
[16:20] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[16:20] <apachelogger> I think that icon is there for a reason :P
[16:20] <apachelogger> the reason being saving space ;-)
[16:21] <JontheEchidna> experimenting won't do any harm ;-)
[16:21] <apachelogger> true that
[16:21] <apachelogger> by the way
[16:21] <apachelogger> kopete should move it's avatar rendering to libs
[16:21] <apachelogger> i.e. rounded corners and what not
[16:21] <apachelogger> could also improve kickoff
[16:22] <apachelogger> because really, it looks kinda weird that almost everything got rounded corners there, just not the avatar
[16:23] <nixternal> we could get rid of kickoff and go with lancelot :)
[16:24] <apachelogger> I find lancelot quite massive TBH :P
[16:24] <ScottK> Let's not.
[16:24] <apachelogger> at times it appears that its ultimate target is to replace KDE altogether :D
[16:24]  * ScottK is hoping not.
[16:25]  * ScottK likes that Kubuntu is a KDE distro (the most KDE AFAIK)
[16:25] <apachelogger> and the most broken one :P
[16:25] <ScottK> Yeah, well with help like mine, no suprise.
[16:25] <nixternal> I don't use the menu anyways, that's what krunner is for :)
[16:27] <seele> apachelogger: did it? i wasnt there so i dont know
[16:27] <seele> ScottK: why not?
[16:27] <nixternal> bug #379192 is an easy one
[16:28] <apachelogger> seele: well, AFAIK the conseus was to not replace the launcher icon because we want to give credit
[16:28] <apachelogger> something like that
[16:28]  * apachelogger finds that weird from a user point of view though...
[16:28] <ScottK> seele: What apachelogger says and it's not really a usablity question.  I think people know they are using Kubuntu.
[16:29] <apachelogger> well, it's more about viral marketing I suppose
[16:29] <apachelogger> someone takes screenie -> kubuntu logo is bound to be there -> dude who sees screenie thinks that since the screenshot creator is using kubuntu it can't be that bad and gives it a try...
[16:30]  * txwikinger_work wonders he they should call out a pandemic
[16:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: Might be a nice idea, but not really a usability question, IMO.
[16:31] <apachelogger> *nod*
[16:31] <ScottK> apachelogger: When they did that 'try to pass KDE off as Windows 7' spoof in Australia, I knew it was either Fedora or Kubuntu due to the display fuzz from the compiz helping patch.
[16:32] <apachelogger> lol
[16:32] <ScottK> I think if we can leverage this KDE common branding effort to get an upstream Kubuntuized start menu icon, it'd be great.
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> huh, apparently "sudo cp plasma_applet_launcher.so /usr/lib/kde4/" crashes plasma-desktop
[16:34] <apachelogger> open for anything
[16:34] <txwikinger_work> there are lots of things clipped since the last update
[16:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you know if kopete is going to use oxygen emotes in 4.3?
[16:34] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: not really
[16:34] <apachelogger> to #kopete!
[16:34] <txwikinger_work> JontheEchidna: Are you sure.... plasma-desktop is very good in crashing by itself
[16:34] <apachelogger> Sput: that should work ^
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> yes, I'm quite sure. I did it again and it crashes again
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> I guess it doesn't like the library being changed underneath its feet
[16:35] <Sput> apachelogger: hm?
[16:35] <txwikinger_work> well.. somewhat understandable
[16:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ABI break?
[16:36] <apachelogger> Sput: when I say "to #foobar!" quassel should take me there :P
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> prolly
[16:36] <Sput> apachelogger: and it does, if you use git master :)
[16:36] <apachelogger> or maybe make the syntax more fancy
[16:36] <apachelogger> Sput: hoorays
[16:36] <apachelogger> obey the master
[16:37]  * apachelogger shouldn't have had that coffee
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> seele: http://imagebin.ca/view/QsXuv8r.html <- first attempt, uses the same amount of space as the old kickoff
[16:37] <apachelogger> *git pull*
[16:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the search icon and the avatar should start at the same position I suppose?
[16:38] <apachelogger> leftish that is
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> the whole top bar thing seems to be centered or sumtin
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> it does look square :(
[16:39] <apachelogger> fix0r it! :P
[16:40]  * apachelogger likes how git is a lot more verbose than bzr
[16:40] <apachelogger> makes you feel busy :D
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> just gotta muck a bit with the layout
[16:43] <seele> apachelogger: i talked with the Oxygen project and nuno was fine with it and thinks it should be done
[16:43] <apachelogger> seele: the icon exchange?
[16:43] <seele> apachelogger: yes
[16:43] <apachelogger> okies
[16:44] <apachelogger> so we just need to come up with some sensible way to do that
[16:44] <Tm_T> hi kids
[16:44] <apachelogger> as mentioned earlier... doing it with the kubuntu logo is kinda diffcult
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> ooh, this looks much better
[16:44] <seele> JontheEchidna: yes!
[16:44] <apachelogger> especially considering the themability of plasma
[16:44] <seele> JontheEchidna: so should i assign that bug to you?
[16:44] <nixternal> bug #379192 - looks like this has been fixed upstream already
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> seele: http://imagebin.ca/view/ffJ7QqH.html
[16:46] <seele> JontheEchidna: looks good
[16:46] <seele> JontheEchidna: what is your launchpad account?
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> echidnaman
[16:46]  * apachelogger giggles
[16:47] <apachelogger> to #quiz!
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> ^I learned my lesson, my svn nickname is jmthomas
[16:47] <apachelogger> Sput: aint working :P
[16:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: so what about the nick?
[16:47] <Sput> apachelogger: which part of it?
[16:47] <hsitter> Sput: the one where I go to #quiz
[16:48] <Sput> hsitter: certainly works for me
[16:48] <Sput> is it clickable?
[16:48] <hsitter> hm
[16:48] <hsitter> it is
[16:48] <Sput> there's the bug that joining doesn't switch to the buffer
[16:48] <Sput> if you are already joined, a click *will* switch :)
[16:48] <hsitter> not joined
[16:48] <Sput> and if you're not, you'll join
[16:49] <hsitter> Sput: the point is that I don't want to click :P
[16:49] <Sput> oO
[16:49] <Sput> so what do you want?
[16:49] <seele> hsitter: someone is working on an official oxygen icon afaik
[16:49] <nixternal> w00t, 1 paperkut down, 13 to go!
[16:50] <seele> i forget who, but nuno wants it in the official oxygen repository
[16:50] <hsitter> seele: a kubuntu icon in the oxygen repos?
[16:50] <ScottK> seele: I know shtylman had been talking to (I think nuno) upstream about installer artwork.  Not sure what else came up.
[16:50]  * JontheEchidna will send the kickoff user avatar patch to plasma reviewboard in a bit
[16:50] <seele> hsitter: yes, so the oxygen team maintains it
[16:50] <seele> ScottK: yes, shtylman is the one working with nuno on it
[16:50] <hsitter> Sput: not sure
[16:51] <hsitter> Sput: I just was thinking it would be totally fancy if I could say to #foobar! and I would end up there
[16:51] <ScottK> Sput: Click once to join.  Click again to switch.  It's a feature.
[16:51] <hsitter> and everyone else in the channel I said that in would feel like joining as well :D
[16:51] <hsitter> seele: hum
[16:51] <Sput> hsitter: hmmm, that sound's like a plugin job :)
[16:52] <hsitter> do we haz plugin support yet?
[16:52] <hsitter> seele: you might wanna suggest nuno to create multiple branches
[16:52] <hsitter> oxygen is growing to become a big fancy rock of data
[16:57]  * hsitter does the robot rock
[16:58] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: what needs triage?
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> kdepim needs it pretty bad, as usual
[16:58] <hsitter> ewww
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> it was > 200 last time I checked
[16:58] <hsitter> jeez
[16:58] <hsitter> oh dear
[16:58] <hsitter> 198
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> I did do a little bit of triaging to get it back under 200
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> come to think of it
[17:06] <hsitter> so
[17:06] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: do you have time?
[17:06] <hsitter> ANYONE GOT TIME FOR BUG TESTING?
[17:06] <JontheEchidna> I'm a bit busy sending mah patch to plasma reviewboard, but once that's done I can test
[17:07] <hsitter> reviewboard *shudder* :P
[17:07] <hsitter> btw, I like how no one committed the screen-configuration.xl fix :P
[17:21] <hsitter> one down
[17:23] <hsitter> nixternal: are you using kmail with dimap?
[17:23] <freinhard> hsitter: got some sparetime
[17:23] <hsitter> freinhard: can you please try to reproduce bug 389825
[17:24] <hsitter> I failed and am assuming that the reporter might have not waited until kmail really quit
[17:24] <nixternal> hsitter: not any more. I went back to Mutt
[17:24] <JontheEchidna> http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/870/
[17:24] <hsitter> or he still got it in the tray ... I made sure kmail is quit properly and the date column updated properly each time :)
[17:24] <hsitter> nixternal: no remaining setup?
[17:24] <freinhard> hsitter: is 4.2.90 enough?
[17:25] <nixternal> hsitter: not any more
[17:25] <hsitter> nixternal: ok :)
[17:25] <hsitter> freinhard: sure
[17:26] <hsitter> freinhard: I tried with 4.2.2, the user got 4.2.4, you got 4.2.90, so if you fail to reproduce it might still very well be an issue in .4, but since there won't be a .5 it is not going to be fixed anyway ;-)
[17:27] <freinhard> hsitter: can't reproduce, i'll fire up my "stable" machine
[17:27] <hsitter> freinhard: k, thx
[17:27] <hsitter> anyone with dimap around?
[17:28] <hsitter> or any imap on KDE 4.3 beta?
[17:28] <freinhard> imap but no dimap
[17:28] <hsitter> good enough
[17:28] <hsitter> bug 382426
[17:28] <freinhard> who cares about these bugs? imap implementation will be replaced anyways ;)
[17:29] <hsitter> freinhard: who knows when :D
[17:29] <freinhard> hsitter: kdab should know
[17:30]  * hsitter should drive to graz and poke krake in the eyes :P
[17:32] <hsitter> freinhard: anyway, I can reproduce that bug on 4.2, question is if it is still there on 4.3
[17:33] <freinhard> can't check that bug, message list doesn't display he message size
[17:33] <hsitter> right click at top and select it :)
[17:33] <freinhard> got no columns
[17:33] <hsitter> hm
[17:33] <hsitter> freinhard: screenshot please?
[17:37] <hsitter> kdepim always got the best bugs
[17:37] <freinhard> http://imagebin.ca/view/kRxYMMFq.html
[17:38] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: bug 378383 driver?
[17:38] <hsitter> got an intel chip it seems
[17:39] <hsitter> freinhard: ah right, fancy setup ... click the picture icon on the very right and select classic
[17:39] <hsitter> that will change the display to column based
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> hsitter: yeah, driver crap
[17:39] <freinhard> hsitter: that's 100% an intel issue
[17:40] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: do we have a bug report to duplicate to?
[17:40] <freinhard> that picture icon sucks!
[17:40] <freinhard> pictures don't have anything to do with the icon used in systemsettings for designs
[17:40] <hsitter> +1
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> hsitter: prolly, though it's most likely lost in the sea of intel driver bugs
[17:40] <hsitter> freinhard: report a bug ;-)
[17:41] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: so what do you do with such bugs?
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> shove it to xserver-xorg-video-intel and tell them to attach lscpi -vvnn if they haven't done so already
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> marking it incomplete in the process
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> since lspci is the first thing the X dudes will ask for
[17:44]  * ScottK wonders where Tonio_ is these days?
[17:44] <hsitter> movy movy
[17:46] <hsitter> 2 down
[17:47] <freinhard> JontheEchidna: shoudln't there be plenty of these intel-screws-qt-graphics bugs?
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> depends on how good of a triage bug the intel driver has
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> um, that didn't come out right
[17:50] <freinhard> hsitter: messagesize in mail-list: 46,8kB, size in that bottom box 44,3kB
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> it depends on how well the intel driver is triaged
[17:50] <hsitter> hm
[17:51] <hsitter> freinhard: maybe the bottom box does not include header or something
[17:51] <ScottK> Could be 7 bit/8 bit stuff too
[17:52] <hsitter> freinhard: defenitely closer than what I got 501 byte vs. 4,4 KiB
[17:52] <JontheEchidna> 4.3 RC1 tagging is tomorrow
[17:52] <hsitter> freinhard: please leave a comment at the bug
[17:59] <nixternal> is there a reason why we still do not enable strigi by default? is it because it is a hog or are there other reasons behind it?
[18:02] <hsitter> nixternal: upstream does not AFAIK
[18:02] <hsitter> nixternal: also until we have sorted the nepomuk mess it doesn't have much use
[18:03]  * hsitter is wondering if anyone looked into the new db server truge is recommending nowadays
[18:03] <nixternal> which is?
[18:03] <hsitter> forgot the name
[18:03] <nixternal> couchdb?
[18:03] <hsitter> nah
[18:03] <hsitter> something more weird
[18:03] <nixternal> lol
[18:03] <hsitter> it basically duplicates mysql, but trueg doesn't want to use mysql
[18:04] <nixternal> ahh, the mysql fork I bet
[18:04] <hsitter> so if we want sensible nepomuk we will have to push kubuntu with 3 databases :P
[18:04] <hsitter> embedded mysql for amarok, mysql for akonadi and that other thing for nepomuk
[18:04] <freinhard> need more mysql in kde! no better way to waste memory
[18:04] <hsitter> one of the pillars of KDE 4 shoudl have been a database :P
[18:04] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:05] <nixternal> just use kdebi :p
[18:05] <freinhard> hsitter: that's what kmail looks like here http://imagebin.ca/view/gQxqWAI.html
[18:06] <hsitter> nixternal: virtuoso
[18:06] <hsitter> last I checked there was only a ITP for debian, but no real progress
[18:06] <hsitter> there are 3rd party packages in some ppa though
[18:07] <nixternal> what about viruoso?
[18:07] <hsitter> nixternal: that is the recommended new database thingy
[18:07] <nixternal> huh? virtuoso is a freakin' server platform
[18:07] <hsitter> http://trueg.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/a-new-blog-and-the-possible-end-to-the-java-dependancy-in-nepomuk-kde/
[18:07] <nixternal> it is far more than just a database manager
[18:07] <hsitter> http://trueg.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/are-we-there-yet-the-long-road-to-a-stable-soprano-virtuoso-backend/
[18:08] <freinhard> hsitter: the reporter filed an upstream bug too. (added to lp)
[18:08] <hsitter> nixternal: note the packaging part at the bottom of the 2nd blog post
[18:09] <ScottK> Isn't that the database that's just a freeware version of some proprietary thing?
[18:09] <hsitter> freinhard: lol, I wonder why he didn't tell us ;-)
[18:09] <hsitter> freinhard: something is weird about the sizes though
[18:09] <hsitter> uh
[18:11] <ScottK> Yes.  It is.
[18:11]  * ScottK wishes they'd all just pick postgres and move on.
[18:12] <nixternal> seele: can we deny paperkuts? ie bug 390211 is not a paperkut
[18:12] <nixternal> it is more like a gash that needs stitches
[18:14] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: bug 375060 driver?
[18:14] <ScottK> Does the koffice2 spreadsheet thing work with more than 65K rows?
[18:14] <hsitter> does it work at all is the question :P
[18:14] <nixternal> hsitter: yes, that is a driver issue
[18:14] <nixternal> only Kubuntu has it :)
[18:14] <hsitter> \o/
[18:15] <nixternal> it isn't in openSUSE nor Fedora
[18:15] <seele> nixternal: yes, mark it as invalid
[18:15] <nixternal> and kmail is the worst in regards to that, followed by konqueror
[18:15] <hsitter> nixternal: any clue which driver? ... doesn't look like the usual intel stuff, does it?
[18:15] <ScottK> hsitter: That too.  If it'll work with over 65K rows, I'd be willing to maybe work on making it work.
[18:16] <hsitter> ScottK: to #koffice!
[18:16] <hsitter> Sput: ^ I need that plugin :P
[18:16] <freinhard> hsitter: driver!
[18:17] <nixternal> hsitter: I get it with Intel constantly
[18:17] <nixternal> part of the reason I stopped using KMail
[18:17] <hsitter> mine always looks different though
[18:17] <nixternal> Kate does the same thing every now and again as well
[18:17] <nixternal> you get the buttons to black out?
[18:17] <hsitter> especially the first screenshot exposes garbage that is new to me :D
[18:17] <hsitter> nixternal: yus
[18:17] <nixternal> I get the toolbar to black out as well as those lines
[18:18] <hsitter> ok, moving to intel then
[18:18] <nixternal> it doesn't happen in Debian nor openSUSE
[18:18] <nixternal> then again, in Karmic it hasn't happened in a while..actually I can't remember the last time I had the issue
[18:18] <freinhard> nixternal: do you use UXA?
[18:19] <hsitter> 4 down
[18:19] <nixternal> which ever is the default in karmic...I know either exa or uxa has been removed from the drivers in karmic
[18:20] <hsitter> exa probably
[18:20] <rgreening> exa = kaputsky
[18:21] <rgreening> uxa = new
[18:21] <hsitter> can someone please translate bug 377147
[18:22] <nixternal> hsitter: that one is easy:
[18:22] <nixternal> UnreportableReason: This is not a genuine Ubuntu package
[18:22] <nixternal> INVALID!
[18:22] <nixternal> we don't bug report PPAs do we?
[18:22] <hsitter> lol
[18:22] <hsitter> nixternal: we advertise them,  so we need to support them in some way
[18:22] <nixternal> though it probably is a valid bug
[18:22] <hsitter> righto
[18:23] <hsitter> still don't understand it though
[18:23] <nixternal> txwikinger_work: speak up homeskillet, that is your bug
[18:23] <hsitter> bug 374828 is awesome
[18:23] <nixternal> wth
[18:23] <hsitter> "are import badly"
[18:24] <nixternal> that's easy
[18:24] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: hmm?
[18:24] <hsitter> they probably make korganizer download the special kind of entertainment videos
[18:24] <nixternal> reply: Get a new phone that doesn't use such a crap encoding :)
[18:24] <hsitter> clearly nixternal was at too many qt designer workshops :P
[18:24] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:25] <nixternal> get a greenphone :p
[18:25] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: Are we in court here?
[18:25] <nixternal> court is in session
[18:25] <nixternal> the honorable txwikinger_work is presiding, all rise
[18:25] <txwikinger_work> the bug  application is invalid since it was filed to early
[18:25] <hsitter> android mhhh
[18:25] <txwikinger_work> it was filed before the final hearing and before the plaintiff was damaged
[18:26] <nixternal> I so want an android phone, but I am waiting it out as my phone carrier is supposed to have a killer android phone this christmas...though I don't think I am supposed to make that public :p
[18:26] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: it is from the official kubuntu-ppa
[18:26] <nixternal> no more damaging the plaintiffs
[18:27] <txwikinger_work> well.. I can resubmit it with the final release
[18:27] <txwikinger_work> Doubt it will be fixed if nobody looks at the bug that a submit ;p
[18:27] <txwikinger_work> s/a/I/
[18:27] <nixternal> OK, all paperkuts have been confirmed or denied :)
[18:27] <nixternal> I am sure by the end of of business today, I will have denied more!
[18:28] <nixternal> denying is so much fun
[18:28] <nixternal> it makes others as miserable as I :p
[18:28]  * txwikinger_work goes to the appeals cort
[18:28] <txwikinger_work> court
[18:28] <nixternal> wth, I am getting sexy cam requests from MSN left and right...wth is the google spam control when you need it?
[18:29] <nixternal> this time Jeff thinks I am sexy and wants to chat with me
[18:29] <txwikinger_work> your own fault... why do you use MSN
[18:29] <hsitter> nixternal: I think I am closing that report as invalid because it kind of works for me and I have no clue what he means with "are import badly"
[18:30] <nixternal> hsitter: all your base are belong to us
[18:30] <nixternal> that's what he means
[18:30] <hsitter> prolly
[18:30] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: the court appeal reversed you :p
[18:31] <nixternal> they always do
[18:33] <nixternal> and another todo item has been completed!
[18:34] <hsitter> bug 373676
[18:34] <hsitter> SRU?
[18:34] <hsitter> no SRU=
[18:34] <hsitter> ?
[18:34] <hsitter> I think the report is really a SRU request as it should be fixed according to upstream ;-)
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> can anybody reproduce bug 390765? I can't
[18:36] <hsitter> 5 down
[18:36] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: what do you think about my bug :P
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> I'd just close it as fixed
[18:37] <Riddell> evening
[18:37] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: well, since it is koaby we might want to SRU
[18:37] <hsitter> all love to kolab
[18:38] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: I don't understand yours
[18:38] <hsitter> hullos Riddell
[18:38] <nixternal> hola mr. Riddell
[18:38] <hsitter> txwikinger_work: so, what is with your report?
[18:38] <Riddell> what do you know, they have interweb in the highlands
[18:39] <txwikinger_work> hsitter: what is with it?
[18:39] <hsitter> I do not understand it
[18:39] <hsitter> might be the worst report of all day :P
[18:39] <nixternal> Riddell: I am going kayaking this weekend, any words of advice? it is my first time...I want to spin under water like they do on tv...like flip over, grab a fish with my mouth, and then flip back over
[18:39] <txwikinger_work> I configure notifications as off
[18:39] <nixternal> if I can't do that, then I definitely want the keg in my kayak
[18:39] <txwikinger_work> they still appear on the screen
[18:39] <JontheEchidna> korganizer needs tips turned off by default
[18:40] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm, first time, concentrate on not capsising? :)
[18:40] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: hold your breath?
[18:40] <nixternal> i am a bit nervous, as when I got my helmet and gear this morning, they said it would be best to have a sticker on my helmet that has my contact information for when they find me floating up by the shore :)
[18:40] <Riddell> try going in a straight lin
[18:41] <Riddell> try going in a straight line
[18:41] <JontheEchidna> hsitter: nvm, I got it figured
[18:41] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: you are going white water?
[18:42] <nixternal> txwikinger_work: oh heck no, just a nice river here...we are going to have spots that we break for and have some drink and food before continuing on
[18:42] <hsitter> bug 372487 is incredible
[18:43] <hsitter> txwikinger_work: could you please say that in the report :P
[18:43] <Riddell> nixternal: go forwards and backwards, round in circles, break in and out, ferry glide
[18:43] <Riddell> then surf some waves!
[18:43] <txwikinger_work> hsitter: I thought I did
[18:43] <nixternal> now that sounds fun
[18:45] <hsitter> txwikinger_work: reparse the sentence you wrote in the report :P
[18:46] <txwikinger_work> hsitter: Ok.. I amended the description
[18:46] <nixternal> Riddell: http://www.rei.com/product/777559  <- there is my helmet :) fits perfectly
[18:47] <txwikinger_work> nixternal: Can you use that as a bicycle helmet?
[18:47] <nixternal> sure you can, it has an ansi/snell rating
[18:48] <txwikinger_work> cool
[18:48] <hsitter> Mamarok: bug 376616 is unreprodoucible for me
[18:48] <hsitter> Mamarok: filtering is snappy as always
[18:48] <ScottK> kspread-kde4 happily imports 360K rows of data.  Now it's going out of it's little mind trying to display something.
[18:49] <nixternal> http://www.rei.com/product/747078 <- that's my cycling helmet there
[18:54] <Mamarok> hsitter: well, I have close to 300 addresses, and it hangs all the time, ditto with kde 4.2.90 and latest Kmail packages
[18:54] <hsitter> Mamarok: where are you data stored?
[18:55] <Mamarok> hsitter: locally, using Akonadi
[18:55] <hsitter> hm
[18:57] <hsitter> Mamarok: can't reproduce
[18:57] <hsitter> I got the same contact int he default resource, my googledata resource and a vcard resouce and still get no hanging
[18:57] <hsitter> Mamarok: try exporting all your data to a vcard3 file, then make akonadi use that as alternate resouce
[18:58] <Mamarok> well, when I type a name in the search box it starts hanging, still does
[18:58] <hsitter> decative the default resource so only the new one gets used
[18:58] <hsitter> then try again
[18:58] <Mamarok> it already is a vcard3 file...
[18:58] <hsitter> well, export and import
[18:58] <hsitter> the only real cause I could imagine is some format screwup in the current file
[18:59]  * hsitter can continue adding resources of duplicated data and still would not see a slowdown :P
[19:00] <hsitter> which is pretty much one of the points of akonadi
[19:03] <hsitter> 6 down
[19:05] <Mamarok> hsitter: oh, great idea, that did it!
[19:06] <hsitter> Mamarok: faster?
[19:06] <hsitter> 7 down
[19:06] <Mamarok> indeed, no hanging anymore when I search a contact
[19:07] <hsitter> Mamarok: ok, try to find some dev in #kontact who can explain that
[19:07] <hsitter> I would say a format screwup of the file making it diffcult to parse or something
[19:07] <hsitter> no easy issue though :)
[19:07] <hsitter> Mamarok: please also add a comment to the bug with the workaround
[19:11]  * Mamarok does now
[19:14] <hsitter> 8 and 9 down
[19:16] <Mamarok> done
[19:16] <hsitter> thx
[19:17] <hsitter> 10 down
[19:23] <hsitter> 11 down
[19:23]  * hsitter invalidifies bug from jjesse :P
[19:23] <nixternal> jjesse is going to attack you now1
[19:24] <hsitter> doesn't matter
[19:24] <hsitter> 12 down :P
[19:24]  * hsitter needs a break
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> incomplete for feature requests is boneheaded imo
[19:47] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: well, incomplete feature request :P
[20:02] <txwikinger_work> my plasma-desktop is getting worse and worse
[20:09] <neversfelde> what to do with bug 385692 I tried it and it does not work. No progress there for 3 months either?
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> in playground + does not work + no activity == invalid request, in my opinion
[20:10] <hsitter> aye
[20:12] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: bug 389120
[20:12] <neversfelde> ok, I will mark it invalid
[20:13]  * JontheEchidna couldn't see how a symbol error could occur, since korganizer and libkdepim4 both come from the same source package
[20:13] <JontheEchidna> so one would think that there would be no chance for a library mismatch, unless the lib is from an older version of a different package that used to have it
[20:14] <hsitter> then they would conflict
[20:14] <hsitter> maybe something is holding back a complete dist-upgrade
[20:14]  * hsitter would actually not pursue it because of it coming from the ppa :P
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> you could always convert it to a question
[20:16] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: or you :P
[20:16]  * hsitter got enough bugs for today 
[20:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: hy
[20:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm quite busy actually since I'm about to create my company and work as a freelance :)
[20:35] <ScottK> Tonio_: How about some default settings for netbook?
[20:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: so my free time is farily limited, unfortunatelly
[20:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: I started with something but that's very preliminary stuff...
[20:35] <ScottK> Tonio_: OK.  I need to get a brain dump on what you have.
[20:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'll be done with my current job in 2 weeks and then will go for 1 month of vacations at least
[20:36] <ScottK> Give me a little something and then we can bug fix it into existence.
[20:36] <Tonio_> yup, will do
[20:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: maybe we should create a launchpad project and wikipage for this
[20:36] <ScottK> Tonio_: We already have the spec.  We can add stuff on that.
[20:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm sory for the delay, but going with my company was unexpected, since I was proposed to do so :)
[20:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum true that
[20:37] <ScottK> I understand.
[20:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: yeah it was the same for you the last 2 weeks
[20:37] <ScottK> Yep.
[20:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: did the work went well ?
[20:37] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:37] <Tonio_> nice ;)
[20:38] <Tonio_> I'll prepare you a list of points changed and also try to commen out a bit for tomorrow
[20:38] <Tonio_> most of what I had to do at work is over now so hopefully I'll have more free time
[20:38] <ScottK> Excellent.  We need your support on this project.
[20:39] <ScottK> It's important for Kubuntu
[20:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: of course
[20:39] <Tonio_> I wanna be part of it for sure, that's even what interest me the most right now
[20:39] <Tonio_> just that there are priorities unfortunatelly :)
[20:39] <ScottK> Of course.
[20:39] <Tonio_> the good point is that I now my current unability to work is temporary (2 weeks max)
[20:39] <Tonio_> then I'll have plenty of free time
[20:40] <Tonio_> especially since my new job will be towards to coordinate things with ubuntu community :)
[20:40] <Tonio_> and since I'll work full time from home, I'll have a lot more time to contribute than before
[20:40] <Tonio_> just that to make this happen I have to focus on that in the first place :)
[20:41]  * ScottK nods
[20:41] <Tonio_> It's not the first time that I have to take a break, the important thing is to always come back
[20:41] <Tonio_> most people don't :) I always did :)
[20:43]  * Tonio_ hugs rgreening for proposing the job though :)
[20:44] <rgreening> :)
[20:45] <Tonio_> rgreening: the interesting thing is that I'll create my company as to work for them in france that seems the easiest way
[20:46] <Tonio_> expect it is a lot of papers and calculations in the first place :)
[20:46] <rgreening> ScottK, Tonio_: good news is that usb creator is almost in a usable state, so it could be packaged and put out for general bashing/testing/fixing/translations.. maybe in a few days...
[20:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: super nice :)
[20:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: well done !!
[20:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: did you have to refactor all the code ?
[20:47] <rgreening> ya.. a lot of work went into this so far. It's ugly under the hood, being a direct port...
[20:48] <Tonio_> yeah.... great as long as it works in the first place
[20:48] <rgreening> I'm sure a re-write later may be warranted.. but for now, just to get it up and running...
[20:48] <rgreening> yep
[20:48] <Tonio_> yupyup
[20:48] <rgreening> :)
[20:48] <hsitter> rgreening: it doesn't share translations with the gnome gui?
[20:49] <Tonio_> on my side I worked on the packagekit stuff to work and the pim plugins a bit right now and I hope to start the all netbook stuff as soon as possible
[20:49] <rgreening> hsitter: it should, but I will need someone to go over it all to help ensure it does correctly.
[20:49] <rgreening> hsitter: volunteer? :)
[20:49] <hsitter> I aint got no usb :P
[20:49] <rgreening> hsitter: that won't matter...
[20:49] <hsitter> well, sure
[20:50] <seele> what does Incomplete mean in launchpad?
[20:50] <seele> is there a key to all the bug statuses?
[20:50] <rgreening> hsitter: ok, maybe in a few days I'll poke you on it.
[20:50] <hsitter> as I test every translation anyway just so I can bitch about it and later bitch about how no one fixed it after I bitched about it initially :P
[20:50] <rgreening> :P
[20:50] <hsitter> seele: incomplete is when information is missing
[20:50] <rgreening> hsitter: well, in this case, you would be able to help fix :P
[20:51] <hsitter> so basically whenever a triager asks some fancy question the bug should go incomplete
[20:51] <seele> ah hah
[20:51] <hsitter> seele: there might be a status explanation and usage description somewhere in the wiki
[20:51] <hsitter> but since the wiki is one big black hole...
[20:51] <seele> and if they dont give information or it isnt reproducable, is it then Invalid?
[20:51] <hsitter> rgreening: no python for me :P
[20:52] <hsitter> seele: pretty much, since it indicates that upstream can't or won't help resolve the issue
[20:52]  * seele is new to this triaging thing
[20:52] <rgreening> hsitter: rat b*#@#@*tard...  no exceuses :P
[20:52] <hsitter> seele: it mostly depends on the importance of the information though
[20:52] <hsitter> like there is a crash and the triager can't reproduce, so they might ask for the specific version of kubuntu and the application
[20:53] <hsitter> if the report doesn't respond to that, there is no way the bug can be resolved so it will be marked invalid at some point
[20:53] <hsitter> rgreening: you should have ported to ruby :P
[20:53] <hsitter> ruhhhby
[20:53] <rgreening> hsitter: Im crazy - not insane
[20:53] <hsitter> or c++
[20:53] <ScottK> seele: Incomplete means the bug triaging stats look better.
[20:54] <hsitter> rgreening: well, you know how it is: either mess with python, bloat with c++ or beauty with ruby :P
[20:54] <hsitter> one gotta make one's choice
[20:54] <rgreening> hsitter: pfffft
[20:54] <hsitter> ScottK: well, actually it is just the possibility
[20:54] <hsitter> incomplete is still way too visible and all
[20:55] <ScottK> hsitter: A lot of the stats look at New.
[20:55] <hsitter> there should be a tag "gorotinhell"
[20:55] <ScottK> That would be wontfix
[20:55] <hsitter> nah, wontfix is rather technical
[20:55] <hsitter> gorotinhell would be much more generic :P
[20:56] <hsitter> "like I dunno if it is a bug, but really, your attitude kinda pisses me off, so I am closing this report"
[20:56] <seele> i've got two really easy paperkuts.. who wants some easy karma points?
[20:56] <seele> one is to change the referenced icons on the plasma desktop to something else
[20:56] <seele> the other is to change a panel widget
[20:57] <hsitter> something else? Oo
[20:57] <seele> bug 389740
[20:57] <seele> nuno said all you need to do is change the icons to be the same as in the cashew
[20:57] <seele> theyre named configure-rotate-scale i think
[20:58] <seele> the zoom panel isn't using the right ones and so they are hard to see
[20:58] <hsitter> hum
[20:58] <hsitter> I can't reproduce here
[20:59] <seele> really? you dont see the same icons in the screenshot?
[21:00] <hsitter> seele: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot009.png
[21:00] <hsitter> ahhh
[21:00] <hsitter> oxygen is at fault
[21:00] <seele> oh, change your theme to the default plasma theme
[21:00] <seele> those are the correct "incorrect" icons
[21:01] <hsitter> because the icons are, for some reason, partially transparent the black makes them unrecognizable
[21:01] <seele> yeah, plus the white highlight
[21:01] <hsitter> well, how would you get a highlight, other than hovering?
[21:01] <seele> default keyboard focus highlights it
[21:02] <seele> but i guess you need to navigate to it anyway
[21:02] <seele> even without the highlight it is hard to see
[21:02] <hsitter> ehm
[21:02] <hsitter> actually there is a bug
[21:02] <hsitter> zoom out -> press zoom in -> zoom out -> zoom in is highlighted even without hover
[21:03] <hsitter> seele: please report that at bugs.kde.org :)
[21:04] <seele> ah heh: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182194
[21:05] <hsitter> seele: I can't find configure-rotate-scale
[21:05] <seele> hmm.. let me ping nuno
[21:05] <hsitter> there is transform-scale, but that is, well, scale, so there is no difference between zoom in and out
[21:06] <hsitter> seele: I really think the issue is with the transparency of the two currently used icons
[21:06] <hsitter> this bundled with the darkish plasma theme makes them unrecognizable
[21:07] <seele> maybe.. nuno suggested a different icon, but if it is the transparency then a new icon wont help
[21:08] <hsitter> well, depends on the new icon, the thing is, we need two of them, one for in and one for out ... otherwise it will look weird
[21:08]  * hsitter notes that the scale icon suggestions scale (i.e. in both directions) anyway
[21:12] <ScottK> vorian: How do I get #kubuntu-netbook registered and stuff?
[21:13] <ryanakca> ScottK: /msg chanserv register #kubuntu-netbook description
[21:14] <ScottK> ryanakca: Thanks.
[21:14] <ryanakca> ScottK: then /msg chanserv help   for different settings
[21:15] <ScottK> Tonio_: I just made #kubuntu-netbook so we can discuss stuff there.
[21:30] <seele> hsitter: so the default theme isn't the dark one anymore so i wonder if the icon issue matters
[21:36] <hsitter> seele: that is what I wanted to say before I got draged off by a bug report
[21:36] <hsitter> seele: technically it is still valid, so oxygen should fix it at some point
[21:36] <hsitter> but doesn't qualify as papercut anymore IMHO
[21:38] <hsitter> bug 372487 ... I knew that he couldn't resist pointing out something "simple"
[21:47] <maco> uh...are downgrades supported?
[21:50] <hsitter> no
[21:50] <maco> oh wait i see, invalid
[21:51] <hsitter> might work, or might not, for the whole distribution you probably have a 98% chance of breakage :D
[21:51] <maco> on the kontact topic though....the ToDos...they can be forced to the bottom when complete, but i see no way to hide completed ToDos
[21:51] <maco> anyone else think this'd be useful?
[21:51] <maco> (i find it a pain in the arse to go through and clean up all those completed ones cluttering it up)
[21:54]  * ScottK heads off for a while.
[21:56] <hsitter> JontheEchidna: bug 374828 if you get into a fowarding mood
[22:14] <maco> apparently that was 2 hours ago
[22:15] <freinhard> btw: any python/pyqt stuff on that todo list?
[22:19] <Riddell> maco: or in a week
[22:20] <maco> or that
[22:20] <maco> well slightly under a week right? 1 week - 2 hours?
[22:24] <Riddell> freinhard: "Jockey: get it inside System Settings" is pykde but there's some reason why it won't work
[22:24] <Riddell> I forget what it is though
[22:24] <Riddell> freinhard: if you know basic c++ yo could port the patch in dragon to prompt for codecs into kaffeine
[22:25] <Nightrose> vorian: any news wrt to my problem?
[22:25] <Nightrose> -to
[22:25] <Riddell> or mine :)
[22:26] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:32] <hsitter> oh
[22:32] <hsitter> there we go, I freaked out
[22:32] <hsitter> I just shouldn't do bug triage
[22:34] <freinhard> Riddell: basic describes my c++ knowledge quite well. i'll have a look at it
[22:35] <Riddell> freinhard: it's a pretty basic patch,   apt-get source kdemultimedia   and it should be in debian/patches
[22:35] <Riddell> freinhard: it just runs the dbus call at app start, shouldn't be hard to port it to kaffeine
[22:35] <freinhard> Riddell: first i need a karmic vm ;)
[22:36] <Riddell> freinhard: oh wait, there's already a patch in there
[22:36] <hsitter> Riddell: so, why is that not done upon startup of phonon?
[22:36] <Riddell> tonio must have ported it already
[22:36] <Riddell> hsitter: the codec install?  it makes more sense to users that the app asks for the codecs
[22:37] <Riddell> and startup of phonon is generally kde startup when things shouldn't get in the way
[22:38] <freinhard> well then i'll try to profile update-manager-kde, eats too much ram in my opinion.
[22:39] <hsitter> hm
[22:39] <hsitter> Riddell: a drag to maintain though
[22:39] <hsitter> Riddell: + the app name can be translated, which the patch does not take into account
[22:42] <maco> hey karmic bug reproduce for kubuntu?
[22:43] <hsitter> Riddell: anyway, at some point we should look into getting a more maintainable solution :P
[22:43] <maco> anyone else can confirm that ctrl+shift+u doesnt get you into unicode mode in kde apps in karmic?
[22:43] <Riddell> maco: what's unicode mode?
[22:44] <hsitter> Riddell: maybe hook into the backends somewhere ... we probably should be able to get the caller's name in there + have the advantage of offering backend dependent packages
[22:45] <hsitter> i.e. gstreamer packages if the user chooses to use the gstreamer backend
[22:45] <maco> little underlined u and then you can type hex codepoints for unicode to get unicode characters
[22:45] <maco> worked in kde in jaunty. works in gnome apps. not working now.
[22:45] <Riddell> hsitter: yes it should be done inside phonon and in a distro independent way really
[22:45] <Riddell> but it's hard to do I believe
[22:46] <hsitter> Riddell: well, the distro independent way is quite trick
[22:46] <hsitter> because TBH we need something inside kdelibs for that
[22:46] <Riddell> not with packagekit
[22:46] <hsitter> there are a lot of usecases where you need to install packages from the distro package manager
[22:46] <hsitter> which I whined a lot of times about ;-)
[22:46] <hsitter> Riddell: just have the distros provide a desktop file to configure the package manager
[22:47] <hsitter> if non available tell user a URL for the source or something
[22:49] <neversfelde> Riddell: can you have a look at bug 387041
[22:49] <neversfelde> would be great to get a fast backport
[22:50] <Riddell> ok
[23:02] <maco> how do i get the 22 notifications that are stuck in the little "i" thing in my tray to go away?
[23:02] <neversfelde> maco: choqok notifications?
[23:03] <maco> yes
[23:03] <neversfelde> discovered the same, I think it is a bug, but no time to report it, yet
[23:03] <neversfelde> and I figured out no way to delete them
[23:06] <neversfelde> Riddell: thanks
[23:08] <maco> ok
[23:09] <Nightrose> neversfelde: maco: same happens with kopete here - very annoying and i have been debugging it with the dev of the notification thingy
[23:09] <Nightrose> but no result :(
[23:10] <Nightrose> sometimes file transfer notifications get stuck too
[23:10] <Nightrose> but mostly kopete here
[23:10] <neversfelde> I think it only happens with a higher amount of notifications, I had no problem with kopete so far, only when choqok shows 20 notifications at startup
[23:11] <Nightrose> jep
[23:11] <Nightrose> happens here when kopete starts and connects to 6 networks
[23:12] <Nightrose> lots of message and online notifications
[23:18] <neversfelde> wow, 6 networks :)
[23:18] <neversfelde> Nightrose: can I confirm the bug somewhere?
[23:26] <Nightrose> neversfelde: i just discussed it with the developer - not sure if there is a bug report somewhere but i guess there is
[23:30] <neversfelde> ok, will search tomorrow for it, thy
[23:31] <neversfelde> s/thy/thx
[23:47] <hsitter> claydoh: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3099334.msg163705#msg163705 would you mind poking that edcates dude whether he wants to do stuffs for neon itself?
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> kthxbai are the best type of bug response answers
[23:50]  * hsitter still thinks goburninhell would be a good bug status :P
[23:51] <neversfelde> rofl
[23:52] <neversfelde> I have a three month holiday from tomorrow on :/
[23:52] <neversfelde> I guess I should find a good task
[23:52] <hsitter> should be just enough to triage all of kdepim *hint*
[23:52] <neversfelde> hehe
[23:52] <neversfelde> would be a "burninhell" summer
[23:53] <hsitter> oioi
[23:54] <seaLne> maco: try ~1000 jabber messages from nagios to kopete for not going anway, not entirely sure of what the limit is but yeah seen it with choqok aswell, before i managed to turn off notifications
[23:55] <Mamarok> neversfelde: come to Akademy?
[23:55] <seaLne> think he is?
[23:56] <neversfelde> Mamarok: would be great, but I am not a developer and I am unemployed waiting for my exams result
[23:56] <neversfelde> (again)
[23:57] <Mamarok> neversfelde: well, I'm not a dev neither, there's more to Free Software than just devs
[23:57] <seaLne> oh, thought i'd seen your anme ohwell
[23:57] <hsitter> akademy is awesome
[23:57] <neversfelde> yeah, ofcourse, but I am not in touch with kde processes, so I'd better go bug triaging^^
[23:57]  * seaLne isn't a dev either
[23:58] <hsitter> neversfelde: I wasn't either when I went to dublin :P
[23:58] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: what are you doing here? Wanna help packaging?
[23:58] <hsitter> all about the fun
[23:58] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: just here for fun :)
[23:58] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: i can , if i knew how to do it
[23:58] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: well, here is not fun, here is hard work
[23:59] <neversfelde> hsitter: hehe, I think I should go to bed, tomorrow is the last test. gn8 everyone
[23:59] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: dont worry i wont say a thing...
[23:59] <Mamarok> hsitter: got a new potential minion for you
[23:59] <hsitter> for quite some time :P
[23:59] <hsitter> he just doesn't know yet
[23:59] <Mamarok> he has reinstalled so many times he must be an expert now :)
[23:59] <neversfelde> kind of slyvery here :)