=== Martyn- is now known as Martyn [07:58] Hi friends, I have a omap3430 based hardware and i want to compile ubuntu for the armv7 architecture. Any pointers on how to go about the same ? [08:10] You don' thave to [08:10] Canonical is working on it, it's just going to take a bit [08:11] Are you also working with Cortex-A9 hardware? [08:11] or just Cortex-A8? [08:11] cortex-a8 [08:11] Right, 3430 ... du [08:11] duh ratehr :) I'm tired, it's 2:11am for me [08:12] ohh [08:12] catch some sleep [08:12] not quite yet [08:12] I'm in the middle of debugging a multicore ARM kernel [08:12] omap4 ? [08:12] I'm not at a place where I can checkpoint .. still doing the instruction trace [08:12] Cortex-A9 [08:13] but not omap4 SoC [08:13] I'm using the realview-eb fastmodel [08:13] is canonical working on that too ? [08:13] (since the only real A9 hardware is the PBX, being released in super-limited quantity, based on an eASIC running at 70Mhz) [08:13] no [08:14] However, they will be. [08:14] ogra and I should both be getting PBX'es around the same time [08:14] Better question -- why do you want a v7 compile? [08:14] v6->v7 won't result in a huge performance increase [08:15] optimisations ? Isnt it going to make a difference ? [08:15] the difference between the omap 2xxx and 3xxx series isn't much [08:15] just speed [08:15] if you have a specific application you'd like to compile v7, go for it [08:15] cross compile it using CodeSourcery's tools [08:16] however, you can't just turn on v7 arch and expect magical optimization and speed [08:16] glibc needs to have changes made to take advantage of v7 [08:16] An application like firefox has a lot of dependecies and i would end up cross compiling a lot more of those [08:16] yep [08:16] i used Codesourcery [08:17] What optimization level? [08:17] -O2? [08:17] Just that my folks here want me to get the whole of ubuntu build for armv7 . yeah O2 [08:18] so do my folks [08:18] we're doing an SoC [08:18] but recompiling the entire distro isn't in the works for the moment, simply because we lack the platforms to do native v7 compiles [08:18] (and cross compiling is really dicey) [08:19] i supplied those platforms to canonical 2 months back [08:19] Ah! Twas you :) [08:19] yeah [08:19] What SoC are the boards based on? [08:20] TI's omap? [08:20] or the freescale i.mx51? [08:20] TI's omap 3503 [08:21] Well, hopefully we'll see more v7 compiled code in karmic [08:21] what would be required to get the whole distro built using codesourcery toolchain ? anything we are missing ? [08:22] so much in the air... [08:22] I wouldn't want to build it in cross [08:22] however, I'm the wrong person to ask about the build engine.. [08:22] that's ogra, ncommander, etc... [08:22] * Martyn works on ARM linux porting, and device drivers :) [08:23] :) cool got that. I am gonna ping them and see if we can do some magic faster [08:24] however, I've been doing some pretty close looking at what v7 buys as far as performance goes using profiling ... [08:24] it's not much [08:26] v7 does make a big difference in the power used though. v7 code takes better advantage of the A8's power saving capabilities [08:27] Where you get massive performance increases are in any code that takes advantage of vfp/NEON [08:27] as well as video decoding [08:28] for the same reason .. since you can pass that on to the coprocessor [08:28] yeah we plan to use neon too [08:28] my current processor lacks the DSP [08:29] Martyn: I think there could be a significant difference if we'd start using thum or thumb2 in actual binaries, but this sounds like a large project [08:29] nod [08:29] *thum [08:29] Rgah [08:29] lool : No kidding [08:29] *Thumb [08:30] the thumb compression in the A8 is a nice feature [08:30] and I'm discovering that pretty significant changes were made to v7 (for the better) on the A9 [08:31] Section "Device" [08:31] Identifier "Card0" [08:31] Driver "fbdev" [08:31] Option "fbdev" "/dev/fb0" [08:31] VendorName "Unknown" [08:31] BoardName "Unknown" [08:31] EndSection [08:31] Section "Screen" [08:31] ... [08:31] Device "Card0" [08:31] ... [08:31] EndSection [08:31] Ack! [08:31] sorry [08:32] What changed on A9? [08:34] thumbEE [08:34] Ogra , NCommander Any tips on the build process for armv7 ? [08:34] L2 is huge [08:34] REALLY huge [08:34] like "a full meg" [08:34] L1's aren't shabby either [08:34] nice [08:34] but the real treat is the four cores [08:35] I have a fully multicore jaunty working now [08:35] which is quite the achievement :) [08:35] "on the shoulders of giants" [08:37] great work Martyn .. [08:37] Martyn: Wasn't ThubEE on the A8 already?? [08:38] lool : It is, but it has been improved in the A9 [08:38] instruction execution time is -way- down [08:38] Ah [08:39] in theory, there's no reason these chips won't be able to go 1.5Ghz [08:39] Martyn: Are there interesting patches to merge from your work on getting jaunty to work on MP? :) [08:39] all the patches minus two are now part of the arm-linux.org tree [08:39] So only kernel? [08:40] (course, they are a critical two ... that have to do with using WFE rather than WFI to halt the other cores during bootloading, then releasing them with an SVC call into the secondary_boot process) [08:40] lool : Only kernel. [08:41] and a BUTTLOAD of drivers [08:41] because ARM is so fucking fractured as an architecture [08:41] arm-linux.org => linux-arm I guess [08:41] I swear, we need a unified bootloader (UEFI) and then we need a unified boot process [08:42] www.linux-arm.org 's git repository, yes [08:42] frankly, there are a bunch of merges that have to happen now between that tree, and the mainline linux kernel tree [08:43] right now there are four fractures trees that people are building from .. the omap-linux tree, the arm-offical tree, the beagle-flavored tree, and the mainline linux repo [08:43] The //problem// is the ARM gatekeeper for the linux kernel [08:43] Russel is slowing things down [08:43] Is the OMAP tree going via the ARM tree? [08:44] no [08:44] it's got it's own little world [08:44] and it's become quite the fork at this point, especially the framebuffer code [08:44] Right, it seems they have a pile of not-easily upstreamable patches [08:45] And it's resulting in this kind of mess: http://osdir.com/ml/linux-kernel/2009-06/msg05879.html [08:45] I mean, you don't see the x86 side of the kernel doing this kind of insanity [08:45] nor the MIPS guys, really [08:46] but ARM? We've got the worst part of the Linux source tree .. our branches look like a teenager's room after an all-week party kegger [08:48] Having per subarch or even per board trees is not really nice indeed [08:49] sub arch is acceptable [08:49] is ... crazy [08:50] it's partially ARM's fault [08:50] and partially the phoneset manufacturer's fault (odd bootloaders, TrustZone, etc) [08:50] but mostly the Linux Maintainer's fault [10:11] bandwidthcrunch: Hey, who are you? :) [10:12] Hi lool [10:12] Manav Gautama [10:12] bandwidthcrunch, i doubt using codesourcery to cross-build *the whole distro* is easily possible without a year of building infrastructure :) [10:13] we build the whole system natively [10:13] bandwidthcrunch: I'm working on a tool to rebuild the distro with a different toolchain [10:13] Willing to chuck codesourcery [10:13] It wouldn't be crossbuilt though, but natively built within qemu [10:14] Is it a buildd or obs like system? [10:14] launchpad buildds [10:14] That should also be ok. I was interested in having armv7 using qemu or building them natively [10:14] have some omap3 board [10:15] also shipped one to canonical [10:15] bandwidthcrunch: Who did you ship it to? [10:15] give me a minute [10:15] Le1: obs? [10:15] lool, suse [10:15] Oh [10:16] opensuse build service [10:16] Ubuntu uses Launchpad-driven buildds; my system will use EC2 running Debian-style buildd tools [10:16] Le1, https://launchpad.net/builders [10:17] (scroll down to armel, they are integrated and used natively as any other arch buildd) [10:18] That's how we do it in for Ubuntu itself [10:20] i see. [10:20] I've thought it's a local buildd. :P [10:22] lool , shipped to to kress [10:24] bandwidthcrunch: If this is pubic information, could you share details about what board this is? [10:24] *public [10:26] its not yet public but its been a while i heard anything. So am trying to setup a build out here and see if we can do things faster [10:26] bandwidthcrunch: I think you should talk to Mike Kress and check directly with him [10:27] I just got his address and seeing if i can get any more information [10:27] *I* personally neverheard of your project/board, so if it's not public we can't really discuss anything; we're a larger company now, so it's probably other people are working on it === Le1 is now known as eggonlea [10:28] but at the same side i would also like to start builds here at my end . I understand lool. Am just checking up with anyone else is working on a armv7 port [10:28] the whole 9.10 release will be armv6+ [10:28] bandwidthcrunch: The main Ubuntu armel port is going to move to ARMv6 + VFP when our buildds are moved to this [10:28] mojo ? [10:28] not sure thats sufficient for you, but if it is you wont need to rebuild the whole of it [10:29] bandwidthcrunch: What with mojo? [10:29] isnt that armv6 +VFP ? [10:29] i already have a rootfs based off it and it looks pretty decent. [10:29] they stopped a year ago, didnt they ? [10:31] bandwidthcrunch: mojo provides various optimized *arm* archives already (Note: not "armel"); if that works for you, that's ok; note that you wont be compatible with the Debian and Ubuntu armel ports [10:31] for rolling a 9.04 rootfs (which is armv5 though) just see the topic :) [10:31] Actually i have both jaunty and mojo working for me . [10:33] Just that i wanted to have armv7 port and source control of the whole rootfs and be able to build the same natively or in qemu [10:34] ogra: Did you rename the project holding the rootfs builder? :-) [10:34] lool's work in karmic should help with that [10:34] lool, not yet [10:35] ogra: Did you pick a name? [10:35] no, then i would have asked for renaming already [10:38] these launchpad builders armel builds happen on canonical servers ? any way i can throw a build there or setup the same infrastructure at my end ? [10:40] bandwidthcrunch: The official Ubuntu buildds are administered/hosted by Canonical; they are using Debianish tools + Launchpad [10:40] with lool's tool you will be able to [10:41] where can i locate the tools ? [10:41] bandwidthcrunch: So you can't just throw your buildd; to setup your own buildd, you should check the Debian tools, but that's not enough to rebuild the distro [10:41] bandwidthcrunch: Start reading up from sbuild [10:41] (The package) [10:41] It should help you setup dchroot and the like [10:41] lool, how about "rootstock" for the project ? [10:42] not very original, i know and less funny than your suggestions ... but its a name [10:43] ogra: It's a decent name [10:43] right, i'll take that one then [10:45] * ogra waits for an answer in #launchpad ... [10:46] You probably want to file it as a question, but well [10:49] i wanted to ask first [10:49] https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm-roofs-builder/+question/74975 [10:51] *sigh* why do i get all that cyrillic spam ... i cant even read it [10:58] thanks lool, ogra , will look up the tools you have mentioned and see if i can cook up something tho it sounds to be quite a task [17:42] heloooo [17:43] where can i download ubuntu arm and ubnt arm packages? [17:44] http://ports.ubuntu.com/ has all armel packages [17:45] arm ? [17:45] can i install them with smart q5 ? [17:47] if you have a kernel and bootloader 9.04 should work ... see the topic [17:47] what? [17:47] "Build a rootfs from scratch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch" [17:48] armel ihow can i port ubuntu into my device? [17:48] you need a kernel and bootloader for your device, with the script from the wikipage you can build an ubuntu rootfs for it [17:49] is not simle [17:49] simple* [17:49] r u able to do dis ? [17:50] well, i wrote the script ... [17:50] so if i would have such a device, a kernel and a bootloader i surely could do it [17:50] really?? [17:50] amzing....baffling you're the man... [17:51] rek_ I'ts not hard, really. [17:51] i should read [17:51] You have to pay attention to detail, but the building of a rootFS is straightforward [17:52] ogra : BTW .. looks like I might have to replicate the build system here in house in the next couple months. [17:52] ogra : The interest in a v7 build is increasing, and I've been put on UEFI duty [17:52] however my device i'm gonna buy has alread installed a linux distro... i think it's arm ubuntu... they said so... so i'm worried about how could i install new programs... how could i run a new os ecc [17:53] it's smart q5 [17:53] * ogra points Martyn to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds [17:53] so ogra is a genius ? [17:53] Martyn, though i doubt v7 will give you much more than v6+vfp and thats what karmic will default to anyway [17:54] ogra : I need NEON support [17:54] the processor is arm11 ... [17:54] ogra : amongst other things .. however for me it's a Mandate From Above(tm) [17:54] isnt that a matter of kernel support and drivers ? [17:54] is this good? [17:54] first of all at least ... [17:55] Also application support, and apps have to be compiled with support for the NEON extensions [17:55] what? [17:55] ah, right ... [17:55] Martyn, so you will try NEON on the babbage ?? [17:55] ogra : So it's a big, hairy ball of a mess [17:55] ogra is it simple to add spplications? [17:56] ogra : no, I'm going to use NEON on our chip once it tapes out [17:56] and on the PBX [17:56] which just arrived in a nice big box. The PBX is -huge- man, and s l o w [17:56] rek_, if there is already ubuntu on the device that should be straightforward, yes [17:56] but dual core, implemented on an eASIC [17:56] but [17:56] no buts :) [17:56] but.... it's arm i think [17:56] so? [17:56] which packages do i need? [17:56] the pools are all compiled [17:56] just install the rootfs, in it's entirely [17:57] no butts lol [17:57] you'll have a base rootFS (no graphics) then you'll have to configure and install xorg-core [17:57] etc. [17:57] i don't have to...may be if i change os [17:57] OR .. you can run the version of Intrepid that the smart Q5 comes with, and /not worry about it/ [17:57] Martyn, the cloud spec should make it easy to rebuild parts or the whole archive [17:57] ninfact... [17:57] in fact, after poking around and doing a bit of research, it seems that the Smart Q5 may even have Jaunty o it [17:58] Jaunty on it [17:58] do u know smart q5 ? [17:58] ogra : I agree. Looks good. [17:58] ogra : What's the timeframe for working on the tool? [17:58] is the touch good? [17:58] Martyn, ask lool, he implements it [17:58] rek_ : There aren't a lot of ARM platforms that I haven't played with at this point. [17:58] what? [17:59] the processor is arm11 samsung 667mhz what coul i install? [17:59] ogra : Will do. [17:59] rek_ : Anything you want [17:59] lol :-) what? [17:59] i think only some distro for pda [17:59] anything you want. If it's in the armel software pools, you can aptitude install whatever you want [18:00] the thing runs ubuntu perfectly. [18:00] what's armel ? [18:00] rek_ : *groan* Sir, you need to do a lot more reading please. [18:00] i know but could u tell me? [18:01] arm is armel? [18:01] rek_ : You have a rather large gap in your knowledge, and this is mostly a developer-related channel as opposed to a user-install channel. [18:01] user-install chan lol :-) [18:01] there are different flavours of ARM CPU ... google for the difference between big endian and little endian :) [18:01] i'm sorry... [18:01] not that I want to put you off, please understand, but I don't want to spend a great deal of time educating :) [18:01] armel means the packages are built for ARM with little endian [18:02] (arm-endian-little = armel) [18:02] i like to being teached if it's correct [18:03] little endian? [18:03] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness [18:03] rek_ : wikipedia is your friend [18:04] i'd like to buy also the axim x30 ... but i want linux there thx fr da link [18:05] but i know the port is not completed [18:06] * ogra calls it a day (late here) [18:06] what do you call? [18:07] rek_, it means "gooybye, i'm off for today" [18:07] really? [18:07] means u ar tired ? [18:08] yes, i'm working since 11h [18:08] working on ? [18:08] ubuntu ... [18:08] can i find a iso image of arm ubuntu? [18:08] * ogra is really gone now, before the shops close [18:08] really are u a developer? [18:08] ah what's the time ? [18:09] rek : he's in Germany [18:09] i'm in the US (texas) [18:09] 19.09 here [18:09] people are spread around [18:09] 12:09 here [18:09] rek : I too am going offline for a bit, for lunch [18:09] and yes, ogra's an ubuntu developer [18:09] it's my fault maybe [18:09] so are lool, amitk, ncommander, armin76 .. etc.. [18:09] congratulation ogra [18:10] I'm a linux kernel developer, and work in the x86 and ARM tree [18:10] i'd like to ask a lot of things but.... [18:10] good [18:10] how old are u? [18:10] not associated with any particular distro, but more Debian/Ubuntu of late because the company I'm with has connections to Canonical [18:10] Now that's a bit of a personal question, don't you think? [18:11] i'm in my late 30's [18:11] canonical? yes i think so... [18:11] And it's not a question relevant to ubuntu development. [18:11] i'm 19-20 [18:11] Very good. Well, please pardon me .. but I do have to go as well. Lunch awaits. [18:11] yes because... it's smthg difficult so you cannot be there at an early age ain't it ? [18:12] ok have a nice dinne [18:12] r [18:12] Martyn: bon appétit [18:13] Martyn: Re: the rebuild tool: you might have seen some efforts in building a good qemu setup; that's part of this project [18:13] buon appetito [18:13] lool : awesome [18:13] I'm almost done with that part, I'd like to rebase on a .30 and use highmem [18:17] rofl [18:17] Martyn: i'm not, i'm a gentoo one [18:18] what sould i do to install zydas zd1211 on damn small ? [19:12] Anyone got any idea what this does or why it might be necessary? http://paste.ubuntu.com/201603/ [19:12] (from thunderbird 3.0 source, no comment explaining it) [19:28] re [19:29] ciao [19:30] hello [19:34] re [19:34] Back from lunch [19:34] armin76 : Pardon me :) I even _knew_ you were into gentoo... [19:34] Slipped my mind :)