[07:58] <bandwidthcrunch> Hi friends, I have a omap3430 based hardware and i want to compile ubuntu for the armv7 architecture. Any pointers on how to go about the same ?
[08:10] <Martyn> You don' thave to
[08:10] <Martyn> Canonical is working on it, it's just going to take a bit
[08:11] <Martyn> Are you also working with Cortex-A9 hardware?
[08:11] <Martyn> or just Cortex-A8?
[08:11] <bandwidthcrunch> cortex-a8
[08:11] <Martyn> Right, 3430 ... du
[08:11] <Martyn> duh ratehr :)  I'm tired, it's 2:11am for me
[08:12] <bandwidthcrunch> ohh
[08:12] <bandwidthcrunch> catch some sleep
[08:12] <Martyn> not quite yet
[08:12] <Martyn> I'm in the middle of debugging a multicore ARM kernel
[08:12] <bandwidthcrunch> omap4 ?
[08:12] <Martyn> I'm not at a place where I can checkpoint .. still doing the instruction trace
[08:12] <Martyn> Cortex-A9
[08:13] <Martyn> but not omap4 SoC
[08:13] <Martyn> I'm using the realview-eb fastmodel
[08:13] <bandwidthcrunch> is canonical working on that too ?
[08:13] <Martyn> (since the only real A9 hardware is the PBX, being released in super-limited quantity, based on an eASIC running at 70Mhz)
[08:13] <Martyn> no
[08:14] <Martyn> However, they will be.
[08:14] <Martyn> ogra and I should both be getting PBX'es around the same time
[08:14] <Martyn> Better question -- why do you want a v7 compile?
[08:14] <Martyn> v6->v7 won't result in a huge performance increase
[08:15] <bandwidthcrunch> optimisations ? Isnt it going to make a difference ?
[08:15] <Martyn> the difference between the omap 2xxx and 3xxx series isn't much
[08:15] <Martyn> just speed
[08:15] <Martyn> if you have a specific application you'd like to compile v7, go for it
[08:15] <Martyn> cross compile it using CodeSourcery's tools
[08:16] <Martyn> however, you can't just turn on v7 arch and expect magical optimization and speed
[08:16] <Martyn> glibc needs to have changes made to take advantage of v7
[08:16] <bandwidthcrunch> An application like firefox has a lot of dependecies and i would end up cross compiling a lot more of those
[08:16] <Martyn> yep
[08:16] <bandwidthcrunch> i used Codesourcery
[08:17] <Martyn> What optimization level?
[08:17] <Martyn> -O2?
[08:17] <bandwidthcrunch> Just that my folks here want me to get the whole of ubuntu build for armv7 . yeah O2
[08:18] <Martyn> so do my folks
[08:18] <Martyn> we're doing an SoC
[08:18] <Martyn> but recompiling the entire distro isn't in the works for the moment, simply because we lack the platforms to do native v7 compiles
[08:18] <Martyn> (and cross compiling is really dicey)
[08:19] <bandwidthcrunch> i supplied those platforms to canonical 2 months back
[08:19] <Martyn> Ah!  Twas you :)
[08:19] <bandwidthcrunch> yeah
[08:19] <Martyn> What SoC are the boards based on?
[08:20] <Martyn> TI's omap?
[08:20] <Martyn> or the freescale i.mx51?
[08:20] <bandwidthcrunch> TI's omap 3503
[08:21] <Martyn> Well, hopefully we'll see more v7 compiled code in karmic
[08:21] <bandwidthcrunch> what would be required to get the whole distro built using codesourcery toolchain ? anything we are missing ?
[08:22] <Martyn> so much in the air...
[08:22] <Martyn> I wouldn't want to build it in cross
[08:22] <Martyn> however, I'm the wrong person to ask about the build engine..
[08:22] <Martyn> that's ogra, ncommander, etc...
[08:22]  * Martyn works on ARM linux porting, and device drivers :)
[08:23] <bandwidthcrunch> :) cool got that. I am gonna ping them and see if we can do some magic faster
[08:24] <Martyn> however, I've been doing some pretty close looking at what v7 buys as far as performance goes using profiling ...
[08:24] <Martyn> it's not much
[08:26] <Martyn> v7 does make a big difference in the power used though.  v7 code takes better advantage of the A8's power saving capabilities
[08:27] <Martyn> Where you get massive performance increases are in any code that takes advantage of vfp/NEON
[08:27] <Martyn> as well as video decoding
[08:28] <Martyn> for the same reason .. since you can pass that on to the coprocessor
[08:28] <bandwidthcrunch> yeah we plan to use neon too
[08:28] <bandwidthcrunch> my current processor lacks the DSP
[08:29] <lool> Martyn: I think there could be a significant difference if we'd start using thum or thumb2 in actual binaries, but this sounds like a large project
[08:29] <Martyn> nod
[08:29] <lool> *thum
[08:29] <lool> Rgah
[08:29] <Martyn> lool : No kidding
[08:29] <lool> *Thumb
[08:30] <Martyn> the thumb compression in the A8 is a nice feature
[08:30] <Martyn> and I'm discovering that pretty significant changes were made to v7 (for the better) on the A9
[08:31] <Martyn> Section "Device"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	Identifier	"Card0"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	Driver		"fbdev"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	Option		"fbdev" "/dev/fb0"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	VendorName	"Unknown"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	BoardName	"Unknown"
[08:31] <Martyn> EndSection
[08:31] <Martyn> Section "Screen"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	...
[08:31] <Martyn> 	Device		"Card0"
[08:31] <Martyn> 	...
[08:31] <Martyn> EndSection
[08:31] <Martyn> Ack!
[08:31] <Martyn> sorry
[08:32] <lool> What changed on A9?
[08:34] <Martyn> thumbEE
[08:34] <bandwidthcrunch> Ogra , NCommander Any tips on the build process for armv7 ?
[08:34] <Martyn> L2 is huge
[08:34] <Martyn> REALLY huge
[08:34] <Martyn> like "a full meg"
[08:34] <Martyn> L1's aren't shabby either
[08:34] <bandwidthcrunch> nice
[08:34] <Martyn> but the real treat is the four cores
[08:35] <Martyn> I have a fully multicore jaunty working now
[08:35] <Martyn> which is quite the achievement :)
[08:35] <Martyn> "on the shoulders of giants"
[08:37] <bandwidthcrunch> great work Martyn ..
[08:37] <lool> Martyn: Wasn't ThubEE on the A8 already??
[08:38] <Martyn> lool : It is, but it has been improved in the A9
[08:38] <Martyn> instruction execution time is -way- down
[08:38] <lool> Ah
[08:39] <Martyn> in theory, there's no reason these chips won't be able to go 1.5Ghz
[08:39] <lool> Martyn: Are there interesting patches to merge from your work on getting jaunty to work on MP?  :)
[08:39] <Martyn> all the patches minus two are now part of the arm-linux.org tree
[08:39] <lool> So only kernel?
[08:40] <Martyn> (course, they are a critical two ... that have to do with using WFE rather than WFI to halt the other cores during bootloading, then releasing them with an SVC call into the secondary_boot process)
[08:40] <Martyn> lool : Only kernel.
[08:41] <Martyn> and a BUTTLOAD of drivers
[08:41] <Martyn> because ARM is so fucking fractured as an architecture
[08:41] <lool> arm-linux.org => linux-arm I guess
[08:41] <Martyn> I swear, we need a unified bootloader (UEFI) and then we need a unified boot process
[08:42] <Martyn> www.linux-arm.org 's git repository, yes
[08:42] <Martyn> frankly, there are a bunch of merges that have to happen now between that tree, and the mainline linux kernel tree
[08:43] <Martyn> right now there are four fractures trees that people are building from .. the omap-linux tree, the arm-offical tree, the beagle-flavored tree, and the mainline linux repo
[08:43] <Martyn> The //problem// is the ARM gatekeeper for the linux kernel
[08:43] <Martyn> Russel is slowing things down
[08:43] <lool> Is the OMAP tree going via the ARM tree?
[08:44] <Martyn> no
[08:44] <Martyn> it's got it's own little world
[08:44] <Martyn> and it's become quite the fork at this point, especially the framebuffer code
[08:44] <lool> Right, it seems they have a pile of not-easily upstreamable patches
[08:45] <Martyn> And it's resulting in this kind of mess: http://osdir.com/ml/linux-kernel/2009-06/msg05879.html
[08:45] <Martyn> I mean, you don't see the x86 side of the kernel doing this kind of insanity
[08:45] <Martyn> nor the MIPS guys, really
[08:46] <Martyn> but ARM?  We've got the worst part of the Linux source tree .. our branches look like a teenager's room after an all-week party kegger
[08:48] <lool> Having per subarch or even per board trees is not really nice indeed
[08:49] <Martyn> sub arch is acceptable
 is ... crazy
[08:50] <Martyn> it's partially ARM's fault
[08:50] <Martyn> and partially the phoneset manufacturer's fault (odd bootloaders, TrustZone, etc)
[08:50] <Martyn> but mostly the Linux Maintainer's fault
[10:11] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: Hey, who are you?  :)
[10:12] <bandwidthcrunch> Hi lool
[10:12] <bandwidthcrunch>  Manav Gautama
[10:12] <ogra> bandwidthcrunch, i doubt using codesourcery to cross-build *the whole distro* is easily possible without a year of building infrastructure :)
[10:13] <ogra> we build the whole system natively
[10:13] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: I'm working on a tool to rebuild the distro with a different toolchain
[10:13] <bandwidthcrunch> Willing to chuck codesourcery
[10:13] <lool> It wouldn't be crossbuilt though, but natively built within qemu
[10:14] <Le1> Is it a buildd or obs like system?
[10:14] <ogra> launchpad buildds
[10:14] <bandwidthcrunch> That should also be ok. I was interested in having armv7 using qemu or building them natively
[10:14] <bandwidthcrunch> have some omap3 board
[10:15] <bandwidthcrunch> also shipped one to canonical
[10:15] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: Who did you ship it to?
[10:15] <bandwidthcrunch> give me a minute
[10:15] <lool> Le1: obs?
[10:15] <ogra> lool, suse
[10:15] <lool> Oh
[10:16] <Le1> opensuse build service
[10:16] <lool> Ubuntu uses Launchpad-driven buildds; my system will use EC2 running Debian-style buildd tools
[10:16] <ogra> Le1, https://launchpad.net/builders
[10:17] <ogra> (scroll down to armel, they are integrated and used natively as any other arch buildd)
[10:18] <lool> That's how we do it in for Ubuntu itself
[10:20] <Le1> i see.
[10:20] <Le1> I've thought it's a local buildd. :P
[10:22] <bandwidthcrunch> lool , shipped to to kress
[10:24] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: If this is pubic information, could you share details about what board this is?
[10:24] <lool> *public
[10:26] <bandwidthcrunch> its not yet public but its been a while i heard anything. So am trying to setup a build out here and see if we can do things faster
[10:26] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: I think you should talk to Mike Kress and check directly with him
[10:27] <bandwidthcrunch> I just got his address and seeing if i can get any more information
[10:27] <lool> *I* personally neverheard of your project/board, so if it's not public we can't really discuss anything; we're a larger company now, so it's probably other people are working on it
[10:28] <bandwidthcrunch> but at the same side i would also like to start builds here at my end  . I understand lool. Am just checking up with anyone else is working on a armv7 port
[10:28] <ogra> the whole 9.10 release will be armv6+
[10:28] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: The main Ubuntu armel port is going to move to ARMv6 + VFP when our buildds are moved to this
[10:28] <bandwidthcrunch> mojo ?
[10:28] <ogra> not sure thats sufficient for you, but if it is you wont need to rebuild the whole of it
[10:29] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: What with mojo?
[10:29] <bandwidthcrunch> isnt that armv6 +VFP ?
[10:29] <bandwidthcrunch> i already have a rootfs based off it and it looks pretty decent.
[10:29] <ogra> they stopped a year ago, didnt they ?
[10:31] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: mojo provides various optimized *arm* archives already (Note: not "armel"); if that works for you, that's ok; note that you wont be compatible with the Debian and Ubuntu armel ports
[10:31] <ogra> for rolling a 9.04 rootfs (which is armv5 though) just see the topic :)
[10:31] <bandwidthcrunch> Actually i have both jaunty and mojo working for me .
[10:33] <bandwidthcrunch> Just that i wanted to have armv7 port and source control  of the whole rootfs and be able to build the same natively or in qemu
[10:34] <lool> ogra: Did you rename the project holding the rootfs builder?   :-)
[10:34] <ogra> lool's work in karmic should help with that
[10:34] <ogra> lool, not yet
[10:35] <lool> ogra: Did you pick a name?
[10:35] <ogra> no, then i would have asked for renaming already
[10:38] <bandwidthcrunch> these launchpad builders armel builds happen on canonical servers ? any way i can throw a build there or setup the same infrastructure at my end ?
[10:40] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: The official Ubuntu buildds are administered/hosted by Canonical; they are using Debianish tools + Launchpad
[10:40] <ogra> with lool's tool you will be able to
[10:41] <bandwidthcrunch> where can i locate the tools ?
[10:41] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: So you can't just throw your buildd; to setup your own buildd, you should check the Debian tools, but that's not enough to rebuild the distro
[10:41] <lool> bandwidthcrunch: Start reading up from sbuild
[10:41] <lool> (The package)
[10:41] <lool> It should help you setup dchroot and the like
[10:41] <ogra> lool, how about "rootstock" for the project ?
[10:42] <ogra> not very original, i know and less funny than your suggestions ... but its a name
[10:43] <lool> ogra: It's a decent name
[10:43] <ogra> right, i'll take that one then
[10:45]  * ogra waits for an answer in #launchpad ...
[10:46] <lool> You probably want to file it as a question, but well
[10:49] <ogra> i wanted to ask first
[10:49] <ogra> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm-roofs-builder/+question/74975
[10:51] <ogra> *sigh* why do i get all that cyrillic spam ... i cant even read it
[10:58] <bandwidthcrunch> thanks lool, ogra , will look up the tools you have mentioned and see if i can cook up something tho it sounds to be quite a task
[17:42] <rek_> heloooo
[17:43] <rek_> where can i download ubuntu arm and ubnt arm packages?
[17:44] <ogra> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ has all armel packages
[17:45] <rek_> arm ?
[17:45] <rek_> can i install them with smart q5 ?
[17:47] <ogra> if you have a kernel and bootloader 9.04 should work ... see the topic
[17:47] <rek_> what?
[17:47] <ogra> "Build a rootfs from scratch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch"
[17:48] <rek_> armel ihow can i port ubuntu into my device?
[17:48] <ogra> you need a kernel and bootloader for your device, with the script from the wikipage you can build an ubuntu rootfs for it
[17:49] <rek_> is not simle
[17:49] <rek_> simple*
[17:49] <rek_> r u able to do dis ?
[17:50] <ogra> well, i wrote the script ...
[17:50] <ogra> so if i would have such a device, a kernel and a bootloader i surely could do it
[17:50] <rek_> really??
[17:50] <rek_> amzing....baffling you're the man...
[17:51] <Martyn> rek_ I'ts not hard, really.
[17:51] <rek_> i should read
[17:51] <Martyn> You have to pay attention to detail, but the building of a rootFS is straightforward
[17:52] <Martyn> ogra : BTW .. looks like I might have to replicate the build system here in house in the next couple months.
[17:52] <Martyn> ogra : The interest in a v7 build is increasing, and I've been put on UEFI duty
[17:52] <rek_> however my device i'm gonna buy has alread installed a linux distro... i think it's arm ubuntu... they said so... so i'm worried about how could i install new programs... how could i run a new os ecc
[17:53] <rek_> it's smart q5
[17:53]  * ogra points Martyn to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds
[17:53] <rek_> so ogra is a genius ?
[17:53] <ogra> Martyn, though i doubt v7 will give you much more than v6+vfp and thats what karmic will default to anyway
[17:54] <Martyn> ogra : I need NEON support
[17:54] <rek_> the processor is arm11 ...
[17:54] <Martyn> ogra : amongst other things .. however for me it's a Mandate From Above(tm)
[17:54] <ogra> isnt that a matter of kernel support and drivers ?
[17:54] <rek_> is this good?
[17:54] <ogra> first of all at least ...
[17:55] <Martyn> Also application support, and apps have to be compiled with support for the NEON extensions
[17:55] <rek_> what?
[17:55] <ogra> ah, right ...
[17:55] <ogra> Martyn, so you will try NEON on the babbage ??
[17:55] <Martyn> ogra : So it's a big, hairy ball of a mess
[17:55] <rek_> ogra is it simple to add spplications?
[17:56] <Martyn> ogra : no, I'm going to use NEON on our chip once it tapes out
[17:56] <Martyn> and on the PBX
[17:56] <Martyn> which just arrived in a nice big box.  The PBX is -huge- man, and s l o w
[17:56] <ogra> rek_, if there is already ubuntu on the device that should be straightforward, yes
[17:56] <Martyn> but dual core, implemented on an eASIC
[17:56] <rek_> but
[17:56] <Martyn> no buts :)
[17:56] <rek_> but.... it's arm i think
[17:56] <Martyn> so?
[17:56] <rek_> which packages do i need?
[17:56] <Martyn> the pools are all compiled
[17:56] <Martyn> just install the rootfs, in it's entirely
[17:57] <rek_> no butts lol
[17:57] <Martyn> you'll have a base rootFS (no graphics) then you'll have to configure and install xorg-core
[17:57] <Martyn> etc.
[17:57] <rek_> i don't have to...may be if i change os
[17:57] <Martyn> OR .. you can run the version of Intrepid that the smart Q5 comes with, and /not worry about it/
[17:57] <ogra> Martyn, the cloud spec should make it easy to rebuild parts or the whole archive
[17:57] <rek_> ninfact...
[17:57] <Martyn> in fact, after poking around and doing a bit of research, it seems that the Smart Q5 may even have Jaunty o it
[17:58] <Martyn> Jaunty on it
[17:58] <rek_> do u know smart q5 ?
[17:58] <Martyn> ogra : I agree.  Looks good.
[17:58] <Martyn> ogra : What's the timeframe for working on the tool?
[17:58] <rek_> is the touch good?
[17:58] <ogra> Martyn, ask lool, he implements it
[17:58] <Martyn> rek_ : There aren't a lot of ARM platforms that I haven't played with at this point.
[17:58] <rek_> what?
[17:59] <rek_> the processor is arm11 samsung 667mhz what coul i install?
[17:59] <Martyn> ogra : Will do.
[17:59] <Martyn> rek_ : Anything you want
[17:59] <rek_> lol :-) what?
[17:59] <rek_> i think only some distro for pda
[17:59] <Martyn> anything you want.  If it's in the armel software pools, you can aptitude install <xxx> whatever you want
[18:00] <Martyn> the thing runs ubuntu perfectly.
[18:00] <rek_> what's armel ?
[18:00] <Martyn> rek_ : *groan*  Sir, you need to do a lot more reading please.
[18:00] <rek_> i know but could u tell me?
[18:01] <rek_> arm is armel?
[18:01] <Martyn> rek_ : You have a rather large gap in your knowledge, and this is mostly a developer-related channel as opposed to a user-install channel.
[18:01] <rek_> user-install chan lol :-)
[18:01] <ogra> there are different flavours of ARM CPU ... google for the difference between big endian and little endian :)
[18:01] <rek_> i'm sorry...
[18:01] <Martyn> not that I want to put you off, please understand, but I don't want to spend a great deal of time educating :)
[18:01] <ogra> armel means the packages are built for ARM with little endian
[18:02] <ogra> (arm-endian-little = armel)
[18:02] <rek_> i like to being teached if it's correct
[18:03] <rek_> little endian?
[18:03] <ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness
[18:03] <Martyn> rek_ : wikipedia is your friend
[18:04] <rek_> i'd like to buy also the axim x30 ... but i want linux there thx fr da link
[18:05] <rek_> but i know the port is not completed
[18:06]  * ogra calls it a day (late here)
[18:06] <rek_> what do you call?
[18:07] <ogra> rek_, it means "gooybye, i'm off for today"
[18:07] <rek_> really?
[18:07] <rek_> means u ar tired ?
[18:08] <ogra> yes, i'm working since 11h
[18:08] <rek_> working on ?
[18:08] <ogra> ubuntu ...
[18:08] <rek_> can i find a iso image of arm ubuntu?
[18:08]  * ogra is really gone now, before the shops close
[18:08] <rek_> really are u a developer?
[18:08] <rek_> ah what's the time ?
[18:09] <Martyn> rek : he's in Germany
[18:09] <Martyn> i'm in the US (texas)
[18:09] <rek_> 19.09 here
[18:09] <Martyn> people are spread around
[18:09] <Martyn> 12:09 here
[18:09] <Martyn> rek : I too am going offline for a bit, for lunch
[18:09] <Martyn> and yes, ogra's an ubuntu developer
[18:09] <rek_> it's my fault maybe
[18:09] <Martyn> so are lool, amitk, ncommander, armin76 .. etc..
[18:09] <rek_> congratulation ogra
[18:10] <Martyn> I'm a linux kernel developer, and work in the x86 and ARM tree
[18:10] <rek_> i'd like to ask a lot of things but....
[18:10] <rek_> good
[18:10] <rek_> how old are u?
[18:10] <Martyn> not associated with any particular distro, but more Debian/Ubuntu of late because the company I'm with has connections to Canonical
[18:10] <Martyn> Now that's a bit of a personal question, don't you think?
[18:11] <Martyn> i'm in my late 30's
[18:11] <rek_> canonical? yes i think so...
[18:11] <Martyn> And it's not a question relevant to ubuntu development.
[18:11] <rek_> i'm 19-20
[18:11] <Martyn> Very good.   Well, please pardon me .. but I do have to go as well.  Lunch awaits.
[18:11] <rek_> yes because... it's smthg difficult so you cannot be there at an early age ain't it ?
[18:12] <rek_> ok have a nice dinne
[18:12] <rek_> r
[18:12] <lool> Martyn: bon appétit
[18:13] <lool> Martyn: Re: the rebuild tool: you might have seen some efforts in building a good qemu setup; that's part of this project
[18:13] <rek_> buon appetito
[18:13] <Martyn> lool : awesome
[18:13] <lool> I'm almost done with that part, I'd like to rebase on a .30 and use highmem
[18:17] <armin76> rofl
[18:17] <armin76> Martyn: i'm not, i'm a gentoo one
[18:18] <rek_> what sould i do to install zydas zd1211 on damn small ?
[19:12] <NCommander> Anyone got any idea what this does or why it might be necessary? http://paste.ubuntu.com/201603/
[19:12] <NCommander> (from thunderbird 3.0 source, no comment explaining it)
[19:28] <Martyn> re
[19:29] <rek_> ciao
[19:30] <rek_> hello
[19:34] <Martyn> re
[19:34] <Martyn> Back from lunch
[19:34] <Martyn> armin76 : Pardon me :)  I even _knew_ you were into gentoo...
[19:34] <Martyn> Slipped my mind :)