/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/23/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

robert_ancellchrisccoulson: yeah, it's a bit complex!!00:00
chrisccoulsonit is. i've nearly finished it, but the delta to debian is huge00:00
pittiGood morning07:06
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
didrocksGuten Tag pitti08:08
seb128hello there08:20
didrockshey seb12808:22
seb128hey didrocks08:22
pittihey didrocks, moin seb12808:23
seb128hey pitti08:23
pittiseb128: BTW, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne shows that they mean it with the polkit-1 migration08:29
pittiso hopefully we can get rid of the old policykit during karmic08:30
seb128pitti, I was pondering forwarding this email too ;-)08:31
seb128pitti, subscribed to the GNOME d-d-l list too? ;-)08:31
pittiseb128: I'm not, no; davidz pointed it out to me yesterday evening, when I talked to him08:31
pittiseb128: what's d-d-l?08:31
seb128pitti, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-June/msg00069.html for the record then it has details08:32
seb128pitti, the GNOME list where discussions about GNOME happen usually08:32
didrocksI have also bookmarked this link yesterday :)08:33
pittiseb128: thanks for the link, interesting08:33
seb128pitti, you're welcome08:33
seb128robert_ancell, hi08:51
robert_ancellseb128, hi08:51
seb128robert_ancell, is your anjuta sponsoring request ready to review?08:51
seb128robert_ancell, you let the bug as incomplete so it's not on the sponsoring list etc08:51
robert_ancellseb128: huats is going to finish it off08:52
seb128robert_ancell, and gnome-menus? you opened a bug, is that to claim work?08:52
seb128ok08:52
robert_ancellI opened gnome-menus by accident.  It needs someone more experience with the code to fix (I had a go but got lost quickly)08:53
seb128what is broken?08:53
robert_ancellseb128, just needs merging with Debian08:54
seb128hum ok, there is nothing special in the ubuntu changes I think but I can have a look08:54
seb128would be nice if you commented on those bugs if somebody needs to pick up so we know where we stand ;-)08:54
seb128robert_ancell, in any case the versions page is very useful ;-)09:00
robert_ancellseb128, I'm loving it, makes my life a lot easier to see what needs working on09:01
seb128indeed09:01
seb128it took a while to get the update on the server though since the box is still running dappetr09:01
seb128dapper09:01
seb128and there was no launchpadlib etc there09:01
seb128but didrocks fixed that to magically work now ;-)09:01
didrocksseb128: :-)09:11
* seb128 hugs didrocks09:11
didrocksseb128: I added a little feature yesterday, but if you don't want to pull daily, there is no need :)09:11
* didrocks hugs seb128 back09:11
seb128I'm pondering doing a bzr pull in the cron job09:11
seb128but I think it's better to do that manually for now09:11
seb128so we don't pull broken versions while nobody is there to look at the update etc09:12
didrocksyes, as we don't have a test suite to check trunk before updating it09:12
seb128updated09:12
seb128I don't think it's worth doing a testsuite09:12
didrocksseb128: thanks :)09:12
seb128it's not a production tool09:12
didrocksyes, it doesn't worth a testsuite09:13
seb128robert_ancell keeps adding components apparently ;-)09:13
seb128+                "gnome-desktio-sharp2":"gnome-desktop-sharp",09:13
seb128robert_ancell, ^ typo? ;-)09:13
robert_ancellseb128, err09:13
robert_ancellit's a new package. honest.09:14
seb128ahah09:14
robert_ancellas you said, not a production tool!09:14
didrocksseb128: talking about gnome-desktop-* do you have any time to review my split?09:14
didrocksrobert_ancell: :)09:14
seb128didrocks, sure, where is it?09:14
seb128didrocks, you pinged me about it some time ago but it's not on the sponsoring list09:14
didrocksseb128: really? bug #22367109:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 223671 in ubiquity "wnck and rsvg should be provided in seperate packages not requiring gnome" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22367109:15
didrocksu-m-s is subscribed :)09:16
seb128didrocks, nice title ...09:16
seb128didrocks, it's well down the list since the bug is not recent and the title is not clear09:16
didrocksseb128: I prefered to take an existing bug than opening a new one :)09:16
seb128ok, which explains why it slipped out09:16
seb128I will review it today09:16
seb128did you have questions on the merge?09:16
didrocksseb128: yes, the pastebin is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/201932/09:17
seb128didrocks, "- The debian maintainer only put a "Conflicts:" tags (not the usual conflicts/replaces). This seems logical, but how would you handle it?"09:17
didrocksyou qnszered the "debug question"09:17
seb128what do you mean?09:17
seb128Conflicts,Replaces is correct as far as I know09:17
seb128didrocks, QWERTYERROR09:17
seb128;-)09:18
* didrocks hates his windows desktop :/09:18
seb128mvo, ^ is Conflicts,Replaces required when files move between binaries or Conflicts is enough?09:18
didrocksso, in azerty, the question was: the DM only used conflicts, not replaces09:18
seb128I would use Replaces09:19
didrocksso, adding extra diff to debian adding Replaces?09:19
seb128to avoid races in unpacking leading to overwrite errors09:19
seb128let's wait for mvo to reply, maybe it's not required nowadays09:19
didrocksok09:20
robert_ancellbye all09:20
didrocksgood night robert_ancell09:20
seb128didrocks, btw, http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-python-desktop/news/20090620T184326Z.html09:21
seb128didrocks, you might want to rebase on this one, they added python-evince too09:21
mvoseb128: replaces is enough usually if its just a file moving from on to the other09:21
mvoreplaces: foo-data (<< version-where-the-split-happend)09:21
didrocksmvo: the DM only added "Conflicts" in splitting a package09:22
didrocksseb128: look at the control.in file. I added python-evince :)09:23
didrocks(so, I probably based the package in the right time ;))09:24
didrocksseb128: no libevince-dev btw. So, I have to add it09:24
=== proppy1 is now known as propp1
didrocks(as a build-dep)09:25
seb128didrocks, no, I think you did that yourself before them09:25
seb128didrocks, they splitted evince differently09:25
seb128we don't have a libevince-dev09:25
didrocksoh, right, we have libevdocument-dev and libevview-dev09:25
didrocks(coffee time, see you in 10 min :))09:26
seb128see you09:27
seb128didrocks, "(__init__.py for instance in python-totem-plparser)" seems a debian bug09:28
seb128"- what is relibtoolize?" ... a way to update autotools generated files  in the source?09:28
seb128dunno about the .defs exactly, is that revelant for the update?09:28
seb128didrocks, sorry for the duplicated comments on the bug launchpad is not smart about retries as bugzilla is09:38
=== propp1 is now known as proppy
didrocksseb128: they only remove empty __init__.py files (0.90.2 in http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-support/python-support_1.0.3/changelog)09:49
didrocks.defs was for general understanding, no matter :)09:50
seb128didrocks, ok, your current package looks ok to me, could you rebase on the current version and maybe make python-gnome-desktop depends on python-evince?09:50
didrocksand "relibtoolize patches" are just regenerated by autoreconf09:50
didrocksseb128: of course, I saw you comment. will do :)09:50
seb128thanks!09:50
didrocksso, I kept the -doc package?09:50
seb128do you still have some questions I didn't reply to?09:50
didrocksjust the one before :)09:51
seb128what is debian doing for this one?09:51
didrocksthey put the doc in each package09:51
seb128hum09:51
didrocks(3 packages IIRC have the doc)09:51
seb128it's small enough?09:51
seb128hum09:52
didrocksyes, it's rather small09:52
seb128thinking09:52
didrockstake your time, I will have the time only this evening :)09:52
seb128I would say to keep it things the way you did now09:52
didrocksok, just rebase it for now09:52
seb128the documentation coverage will probably improve09:52
seb128and we don't want to use CD space for that09:52
didrocksit's understandable :)09:53
seb128it's easy enough to install the extra binary09:53
seb128we can change later if required09:53
didrocksok, perfect. That's what I thought and why I kept it :)09:53
didrocksI will ping you when done09:54
seb128good job!09:54
didrocksthanks ;)09:54
seb128ok, changing box to my laptop and doing some testing, be back in 15 minutes or so09:54
seb128brb09:54
mat_tasac, ping10:05
asacmat_t: hi!10:05
asacdobey: is your ping still active?10:06
asacmat_t: so whats the experience teams suggestion for bug 38690010:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 386900 in hundredpapercuts ""Auto eth0" confusing for most people" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38690010:07
mat_tasac: I think the notify-osd spec suggests "Wired network" as a generic title for wired connections...10:08
* mat_t looks it up10:09
asacmat_t: quite a lot desktop systems have two NICs by default10:10
mat_tasac: I'm not sure if  it is important for most users to know which one established the connection...10:12
mat_tasac: if I understand that correctly10:12
mat_tasac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#network-manager Once you are connected to a wired network, a notification bubble should appear with the connected wired icon, title ?Wired network?, and body ?Connection established?. (Launchpad #330571)10:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 330571 in network-manager-applet "Wired connected message in nm-applet too long" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33057110:14
mat_tasac: so what are the exact implications of a 2-NIC situation?10:15
asacmat_t: i dont know. i just think that we cannot just name it "Wired network" ... because if you plug in two cables you need a second name ;)10:17
mat_tasac: I see, in this case it should just be: Wired network 2, Wired network 3 etc10:18
andreasnyou can connect two cables? where do you buy those machines?10:21
Laneymy machine is on two networks10:22
Laneyone is called "the internet" :)10:22
mat_tLaney: we're discussing the case when the network name is assigned automatically, and is meaningless for most users: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/38690010:24
ubottuUbuntu bug 386900 in hundredpapercuts ""Auto eth0" confusing for most people" [Low,In progress]10:24
Laneymat_t: Yeah, I was addressing andreasn there. I agree with you, fwiw.10:26
Laneya nice addition would be some kind of indication that a network connection gets you to the internet10:26
asacLaney: its hard to figure that out10:27
asacunless you do high level pinging10:27
Laneyyeah no doubt10:27
asacanyway. i will talk to NM folks and see what they think10:28
mat_tasac: cool, thanks10:28
Laneyvista does it, but I don't know how their implementation works10:28
mat_tLaney: yes it would be nice to have, but only if we can be dead-accurate10:29
LaneyI can't think of a good way besides pinging10:30
Laney"The Encoding key is deprecated. It was used to specify whether keys of type localestring were encoded in UTF-8 or in the specified locale" from the desktop entry spec10:35
Laneyare we following this?10:35
seb128Laney: in which sense?10:36
Laneywe have changes over debian to do this10:36
Laneyshould I drop them?10:36
seb128it's not worth a distro delta if that's the question10:36
Laneyto add encoding10:36
seb128adding the encoding is the wrong way10:36
Laneyno, we had previously added the encoding as an ubuntu-specific change10:37
seb128things are encoding in utf-8 nowadays and the key is not useful10:37
seb128that's wrong10:37
Laneyso I'll drop those changes now10:37
seb128yes10:37
Laneyok thanks10:37
seb128you're welcome10:37
seb128huats: lut!10:37
huatshello everyone !10:37
loolpitti: Do you have .debs for http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20520 ?10:37
huatsseb128:  o/10:37
ubottuFreedesktop bug 20520 in Driver/intel "[945GM] display freezes a few minutes after resuming" [Critical,New]10:37
pittilool: no, just built it locally with the patch10:38
loolpitti: I'm running amd64 and my bug relates to this one, but it's not 100% clear it's the same one10:38
loolpitti: Pristine linux tree, or Ubuntu's?10:38
pittilool: took me a while to figure out the best/fastest way how to build this, I documented it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild10:38
pittilool: against ubuntu tree (-10.12)10:38
pittilool: want that .ko from me?10:38
loolSure10:39
pittihttp://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/i915.ko10:39
pittilool: amd64, 2.6.30-10.1210:39
pittiI just NEWed that, you  might not have it yet10:39
loolpitti: Thanks10:44
pittilool: works for you?11:13
asacRiddell: so konqueror cannot read slashdot? ;) fun!11:14
loolpitti: Still upgrading11:14
loolDidn't do my daily laptop update this morning and lots of updates + slow DSL11:14
pittiinbox zero!11:21
loolI wish11:21
* pitti phews11:21
Laneypidgin isn't on versions.html11:25
seb128Laney: it is, click on the "+"11:25
Laneyoh, what does that mean?11:25
seb128"show extra packages"11:25
seb128is somebody else having issue on edge recently?11:26
Laneywhat kind of issues?11:26
seb128combo boxes values can't be changed often11:26
seb128I've to refresh the page to be able to use those11:26
LaneyI have some icon overlapping problem11:26
seb128that too11:26
Laneynot seen the other one11:26
loolpitti: Doesn't work for me11:29
loolI'm not really surprized as someone claimed it worked in rc5, but it didn't for me11:29
pittiit worked well for me during allhands/UDS11:38
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
mptmvo, did that bug with update-manager appearing very shortly after you dismiss it get an SRU in the end?13:17
mvompt: yes13:17
mptmvo, do you have the number handy or some search terms? I tried to find it a couple of days ago and didn't13:18
=== WelshDragon is now known as YDdraigGoch
mvompt: should be bug #36919813:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 369198 in update-notifier "update-manager auto-opened after each apt use when security updates available" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36919813:21
mptthanks!13:21
mptmvo, why is it "Fix Committed" rather than Released? Does that mean it's still in jaunty-proposed?13:23
mvompt: each sru needs someone doing a sru-verification13:23
mvompt: looks like none was performed here13:23
huatsseb128: 390616 for bug-buddy ... I am back on board :)13:24
seb128huats: excellent!13:24
huatsotherwise : i have noticed that when you create a bug using the version.html page, it creates a bug saying : "Update to 2.27.1" by instance but it might be better to have : "update package_name to 2.27.1"13:25
mptmvo, looks like it's not in Release yet <https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/update-notifier>13:26
mvompt: it should be in jaunty-proposed13:26
mptit is13:27
seb128huats: why, the bug is already on the right component?13:28
huatsseb128: yes, but when you read the email bug activity  it makes more sense to me13:33
seb128emails should perhaps have "[component] title" as title13:33
huatsindeed in that case it is not necessary, but  I think the reference is quite useful13:34
SiDimpt: will the auto-open behaviour really be kept ?13:35
seb128huats: I've no strong opinion but I think the issue is not specific to upgrade bugs and we use the webpage not email to track sponsoring13:36
mptSiDi, "really"?13:36
seb128huats: you are welcome to send a patch though :-à13:36
seb128;-)13:36
SiDimpt: i find it way too intrusive to have update-manager appearing from nowhere13:37
SiDii understand that canonical may want to "force" users to do security updates13:37
chrisccoulsonSiDi - you can still disable it and restore the old behaviour13:37
SiDibut imo it should open after a much more important delay13:37
huatsseb128: sure13:37
huatsit was just my opinion when I have used it :)13:38
tgpraveenSiDi: mpt I agree it is a bad way to behave for update mgr13:38
SiDichrisccoulson: average end user wont restore the old behaviour by using gconf, average end user will remove update-notifier and forget about his updates13:38
SiDiits just what happened with vista's UAC.13:39
tgpraveenSiDi: +113:39
huatsseb128: any thing  to be done ?13:39
chrisccoulsonwell, i can't comment on that, because i don't really know what the "average user" will do, and there doesn't seem to be any hard figures to back up what you say13:39
seb128huats: I've bee told you are still updating anjuta?13:39
mptSiDi, slow down, you're saying incorrect things too quickly to correct them all :-)13:39
huatsor can I do give a look at anjuta to help robert13:39
huatsseb128:  let me finish my sentences :)13:39
chrisccoulsoni just disabled the old behaviour because i detest the new behaviour13:39
chrisccoulson**enabled13:40
seb128huats: lol13:40
SiDimpt: i let you correct me on all of them then :p13:40
seb128huats: doing anjuta would be useful, it's not installable right now due to the gdl changes13:40
huatsseb128: so I'll give a look at it13:40
mptSiDi, Canonical does not want to "force" users to do anything, the "average end user" has no idea that something called "update-notifier" even exists, and nothing similar happened with UAC.13:40
seb128huats: excellent!13:40
SiDimpt: the comparisation with UAC is because UAC is also a feature meant to "enhance security" (cause i suppose the goal here is to make users aware of security updates as fast as possible), but an intrusive feature13:42
mptSiDi, UAC is much more similar to gksudo than it is to update-manager.13:43
SiDimpt: except its easier to disable uac than gksudo :p my point is that if someone finds out that disabling update-notifier stops this behaviour, he'll spread the word, while  the correct thing to do (for this user who doesnt want popups) would be to turn the behaviour to the old one instead of disabling update notifications13:45
kenvandinepitti, ping13:51
pittihey kenvandine13:52
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
kenvandinewanted to talk about the empathy/farsight issue13:52
kenvandineso it isn't optional, that dep has to be there... they only need two plugins from -bad13:52
kenvandineboth are likely candidates to move to -good soonish13:52
kenvandinebut not likely to be before karmic13:53
kenvandinehow do you feel about creating -plugins-bad-liveadder type packages?13:53
kenvandineand make -plugins-bad recommend them?13:53
kenvandineso then we only pull in the little pieces we need13:53
pittikenvandine: that doesn't help, because it would still pull in a plethora of bad packages into main as build dependencies13:54
kenvandinesigh13:54
pittiassuming that yuo want to split them out into separate binary packages13:54
kenvandinethat was my thought13:54
kenvandinebut yeah...13:54
pittikenvandine: would we have the option to split out the entire farsight support?13:54
kenvandineno13:54
kenvandinei asked already13:55
pittiI wondered why everything else is so modular, but farsight is tightly depended on by empathy itself13:55
kenvandinethey aren't willing to do that13:55
kenvandinethey want it to be voip... no matter what13:55
pittihm, so they firmly depend on something that the gstreamer upstreams explicitly consider bad13:56
kenvandineyeah13:56
kenvandinewell13:56
kenvandinethey are pretty well supported13:56
kenvandinethose two13:56
kenvandineand destined for -good13:56
pittikenvandine: can we split the source of -bad and only build these two codecs, with avoiding all those build deps for the other codecs in main?13:57
kenvandinemaybe13:57
kenvandinelet me give that a try13:57
kenvandinehow would you name the source?13:58
pittigstreamer-plugins-farsight or so?13:58
pittior just like the actual codec names13:58
kenvandineok13:58
kenvandineindividual plugins then13:59
pittiit's a PITA to maintain, though13:59
kenvandineyeah13:59
kenvandinebut shouldn't be permanent... famous last words :)13:59
pittiwe also need gstreamer0.10-nice, but that doesn't sound so bad14:00
Zdraat least gst-nice in not in gst-ugly package... /me --> []14:00
seb128kenvandine, pitti: can we try helping upstream on the move to good?14:02
pittithat would certainly be nice, but isn't that a matter of "JFDI"?14:03
kenvandineseb128, they want to make an API change before them14:03
kenvandinethen14:03
pittior is there more to it than just moving the source?14:03
kenvandinemore to it14:03
kenvandinethey are getting to where they are well supported... but want to make API changes before moving it to -good14:03
kenvandinethey have more latitude to change stuff in -bad :)14:03
seb128right14:04
seb128that change start being a lot of efforts I'm wondering if that's worth the work14:04
seb128indications so far seems to indicate pidgin is still nearer of user expectations14:05
tgpraveenseb128: if that is in karmic, then empathy would provide awesome features by the time of lts14:08
seb128karmic is not a lts and which ones?14:09
tgpraveenvideo chat using solely floss software, telepathy tubes brings in a lot of potential features,etc etc. I was talking abt karmic+114:10
tgpraveenas lts14:10
seb128lts is probably not a cycle to add those things14:11
seb128the framework is good and modular for sure14:11
seb128and I'm sure lot of cool things will come14:11
seb128but right now there is no real use of it and empathy sucks at basic IM features sometime14:12
seb128I'm not sure the focus is right, ie adding cool mapping things and new libraries is cool14:12
seb128but that's probably not what IM users are looking for to chat14:12
dobeyasac: nah. i think i got the answer. thanks14:14
cassidypitti: kenvandine: gstreamer-plugins-farsight is a really poor name. That's the name of an old (farsight 1 related) package14:14
* asac lunch time14:15
tgpraveenseb128: while I agree that mapping should not have been the focus right now, but like you say lts cycle is not good to add new software14:15
tgpraveenthat is why it is being done in karmic cycle14:15
seb128thanks but I know that, I'm the one who drafted this spec14:16
seb128and I'm working on the ubuntu desktop since warty14:16
tgpraveenso that by karmic+1(which is most probably) lts we will have a im client14:16
tgpraveenwhich will get basic im features by then14:16
tgpraveenok14:16
seb128I see no indication right now that efforts are spent on making empathy work great for all small im feature on msn, yahoo, etc14:16
seb128I see rather work done on adding new things, ie mapping, vnc, etc14:17
pittiwell, I don't think the -bad issue alone should stop us; we can solve this, and the workaround, although ugly, will be temporary14:17
seb128which are cool but should come at the next step imho14:17
pittiwhat is "mapping"?14:17
pittigeolocation?14:17
seb128yes14:18
seb128sorry for the incorrect wording14:18
seb128btw that's a new extra depends coming14:18
pitti(yeah, saw that)14:18
pittimsn isn't working still? I thought that would work through libpurple?14:18
cassidyseb128: we made a telepathy-butterfly release last week fixing lot of nasty issues14:18
seb128libchamplain depends on clutter too14:18
seb128that start being an explosion of depends for an im client14:19
kenvandineseb128, we don't have to enable the champlain stuff...14:19
seb128yet14:19
kenvandinecassidy, yeah... i was naming it gst-plugins-liveadder14:20
kenvandineetc14:20
cassidynote that Empathy is more than a simple IM client and all these deps are optional and part of the GNOME stack (or should reach it soonish)14:20
Zdraseb128: part of the problem is that msn/yahoo has only users, no sane developer care about those protocols14:21
seb128Zdra: but they work mostly fine in pidgin14:22
seb128cassidy: being part of GNOME doesn't mean we have CD space for everything14:22
cassidyseb128: I know that. My point was: expect more GNOME apps depending on them in the futur14:23
seb128I'm aware of that and tracking changes ;-)14:24
seb128gnome-games is going to clutter too for example14:24
cassidynote that I'm not advocating Empathy by default at all cost. I prefer to have a full package (with all deps) available in universe than a crippled one installed by default14:25
kenvandinecassidy, we should be able to work around the farsight problem14:25
kenvandinebut it seems it is more of a concern about the msn support14:26
cassidyMSN support is indeed, far to be as good as it should be14:26
kenvandinecassidy, since the last release of butterfly, is it better than haze?14:26
cassidykenvandine: since the last release it actually works with recent empathy :)14:26
kenvandinea couple weeks ago it didn't work at all for me14:26
cassidyany idea when this pkg will be synced with Debian btw ?14:27
kenvandinebutterfly?14:27
cassidyyep14:27
kenvandineseb128: ^^14:27
kenvandinecould you do that so we can test it?14:27
kenvandinehey rickspencer314:28
seb128I did an autosync run this morning but it stopped just before that one14:28
seb128will do the second part now14:28
kenvandinethx14:28
Zdrakenvandine: +1 for having Empathy in universe if moving in main means droping features14:28
rickspencer3good morning kenvandine14:28
cassidykenvandine: lot of components need sync actually: http://people.collabora.co.uk/~cassidy/tp-versions.html14:29
kenvandineZdra, i don't want to drop versions14:29
kenvandineseb128, can you also sponsor my empathy bump that includes the indicator patch?14:29
seb128kenvandine: somebody else did the update rebased on the new version from debian I think14:30
seb128I need to look at that14:30
kenvandinedoesn't look like it has been done14:31
kenvandineit is still old14:31
kenvandine2.27.3 is much better14:31
kenvandineand of course we prefer having the indicator :)14:31
cassidyseb128: yeah bigon did it14:32
kenvandinedamn... i really need to look at my email filters...14:32
pittirickspencer3: hello14:36
pittirickspencer3: unfortunately I have an appointment this evening, so that I have to leave at 1830 (i. e. when the meeting starts)14:36
rickspencer3pitti: ok14:36
rickspencer3that iwll give us a chance to discuss you14:36
rickspencer3j/k14:36
pittirickspencer3: would that be okay?14:36
pittiheh14:37
seb128cassidy: telepathy* synced now14:49
cassidyseb128: awesome, thanks!14:49
seb128you're welcome14:49
seb128cassidy: do you know if there is some stats on what protocol are most used by county or something similar online?14:50
cassidyseb128: no idea14:50
seb128would somebody here be interested to work on sru updates for pidgin to fix the yahoo issue?15:00
seb128Laney: I sponsoring your karmic update15:01
Laneyseb128: At work now, and got friends over tonight.15:01
Laneymaybe much later, or tomorrow15:01
Laneyunless someone else does15:01
seb128ok15:01
Laneythanks for sponsoring15:01
seb128you're welcome, thanks for the update ;-)15:02
seb128huats: there?15:03
seb128huats: is your bug-buddy dfsg tarball somewhere?15:04
huatsseb128: here :)15:11
huatsseb128: let me put it somewhere :)15:12
seb128thanks15:12
huatsseb128: http://www.reponses.net/ubuntu/bug-buddy_2.27.1+dfsg.orig.tar.gz15:13
huatsseb128: I should have put it in the bug ?15:14
huats(just to know I mean)15:14
seb128huats: no that's ok15:14
seb128you mean the tarball?15:14
seb128yes because that's not the upstream one15:14
huatsyep15:14
huatsok15:14
huatsI'll remember that15:15
seb128you repacked it to drop the non dfsg files right?15:15
huatsexactly15:15
seb128ok so yes add the tarball to the bug next time ;-)15:15
Laneyor add a get-orig-source rule15:15
seb128Laney: the upstream tarball is no dfsg free so it get repacked, how do the get-orig-source will get the tarball from huat's disk?15:17
Laneyseb128: The get-orig-source gets it from GNOME and then does whatever it needs to do to make it dfsg free15:18
Laneyand then repacks back into a tarball15:18
Laneys/GNOME/upstream/15:18
seb128Laney: how does it work?15:19
Laneyit's just a makefile target in rules15:19
seb128Laney: ie how do you describe the changes to do to the tarball?15:19
seb128ok, could be something to consider for the next update15:20
Laneyrm bug-buddy-x.y.x/blah/blah.c15:20
Laneyit's useful for people to be able to recreate the tarball, and as documentation15:20
seb128seems so indeed15:20
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i'll finally have the gnome-panel update ready for you to check later when i finish work15:31
chrisccoulsoni did it late last night but havent tried installing it or testing it yet15:31
dobeypitti: this guy can't be serious about listing all the autotools files and crap in debian/copright eh? i'm looking at nautilus-cd-burner and it totally doesn't do that...15:48
pittidobey: no, autotools generated files are generally not mentioned in copyright15:50
dobeyand i don't generally see people specifying a license for the "debian packaging"15:51
dobeywhich he suggests also15:51
dobey(and which makes absolutely no sense at all to me)15:51
Laneythat does generally happen IME15:52
Laneypeople usually release their packaging contributions under the same license as the software itself15:53
kenvandinedobey, yes... there should be license for the debian packaging15:53
=== rodrigo_1 is now known as rodrigo_
dobeyLaney: i have very rarely seen any explicit mention as such15:54
Laneyreally?15:54
dobeyand it makes absolutely no sense as there is almost nothing in the packaging which would really be protected under a copyright15:55
dobeyand it's only this one package i've done that i've even had someone mention it15:56
dobeynone of the others have done that15:56
Laneyhow do you know it's not copyrightable everywhere?15:58
LaneyI just picked some random packages from my work directory and they all had this info15:58
dobeyi mean, any N independent people creating packages are going to come up with almost exactly the same bytes. the only pieces that are really going to differe are the Maintainer: and Description: fields of the control file.16:00
LaneyI don't think that matters16:00
Laneybut I'm not an archive admin or ftpmaster16:00
pittidobey: don't worry about copyright too much16:01
pittidobey: dholbach's fourth point is the most important (list of copyright/authors and gpl stub), the rest is "nitpicks"16:02
dobeyright16:02
dobeywell i fixed per dholbach's comments16:02
LaneyI usually put "The Debian packaging is (c) Iain Lane <laney@ubuntu.com>, and is licensed under the whatever, see /usr/share/common-licenses/blah'16:02
Laney+ year ofc16:02
Laneyanyway, bye bye16:02
pittiright, and the GPL stub16:03
asacawe: hi16:23
seb128chrisccoulson: ok cool16:25
mvoseb128: what was the command to get the text config for the current stuff that gnome-keyboard-propoerties sets?16:40
* mvo knew it ones, but forgot it again16:40
seb128mvo: (on phone)16:42
seb128mvo: re16:48
jcastrohey seb12816:49
seb128mvo: gconftool -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd ?16:49
seb128jcastro: hello!16:49
jcastroseb128: daniel, pedro, and I were thinking about how best to get people to "adopt an upstream"16:49
jcastrothat is, having a place where people can learn to get involved with a certain package they care about16:49
jcastrohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Contacts16:50
mvothanks seb128!16:50
jcastroand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Banshee16:50
jcastrothe idea would be that these pages would be where we could work with an upstream on whatever16:50
jcastroand have a place where you can say "if you want to work on empathy start here, read this, them come back to me when you're ready" kind of thing16:50
seb128hum16:51
seb128I'm not sure16:51
jcastroseb128: ok, I will do these three, and then we'll see how it works out16:52
jcastroI don't want it stepping on like those working grid pages you guys keep of all the desktop stuff16:52
seb128the hard part is not really to get those informations, I would say that if you don't the projects enough to find those informations you probably don't know it enough to act as a gateway between distro and upstream on it either16:52
jcastrowell, the list o links is just what we came up with, ideally that would be like best practice16:53
seb128ie the hard part is to know upstream and ubuntu well enough to do the gateway work16:53
seb128figuring the bug tracker etc is a 5 minutes work16:53
seb128if you are not motivated enough to figure that chance are low that you will do good work there16:53
* jcastro nods16:53
seb128jcastro: the desktop grid is just an indicator of where we stand16:54
seb128that's orthogonal, people can easily join and let us know they focus on something16:54
jcastroseb128: I am willing to bet that some people would be willing to do this work but just don't know how.16:54
jcastroseb128: I think it's worth investigating to see if people can get into this.16:55
seb128don't worry about stepping on other people workspace16:55
seb128right16:55
seb128but I would not do project specific pages16:55
seb128rather let people joining do that16:56
seb128you could get a guideline with steps16:56
seb128- subscribe to the ubuntu product16:56
seb128- find the upstream bug tracker16:56
jcastrothis is the start of the non-project specific stuff: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Contacts16:56
seb128- figure if upstream does IRC, has wiki instruction for debugging, etc16:56
jcastroI have a bunch to add to that16:56
jcastroright16:56
jcastroI see what you're saying.16:56
seb128https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Contacts is a good start16:57
Laneypeople should get integrated with the upstream communities early16:57
seb128but don't try to write page for project16:57
seb128let people joining do that they will learn while write the page16:57
seb128maybe a sort of template for it16:57
seb128that will make them look for the bug tracker, look to the launchpad project page, etc16:58
jcastroseb128: I am making a template, I just happened to do the first page (along with another guy)16:58
jcastrobut I see what you mean16:58
seb128good learning exercise16:58
jcastrogood point, we hadn't thought of that16:58
brycemorning17:00
brycejcastro, interesting; in Inkscape we called such people liaisons17:02
jcastrobryce: I have been struggling to find a name for it17:04
jcastro"ambassadors" is taken by fedora17:04
kenvandinejcastro: pimps?17:04
kenvandine:)17:04
jcastroI wanted something like "brutal upstream metal heads"17:05
jcastrobut no one ever likes my ideas17:05
kenvandinehehe17:05
kenvandinejcastro, me either )17:05
kenvandine:)17:05
evanrmurphymorning17:05
dobeyjcastro: is that sort of like BOFH?17:05
hggdhjcastro, must the upstream contact be an Ubuntu member?17:06
hggdhit does not scale...17:06
jcastrohggdh: ideally, if the person is representing ubuntu to an upstream then they should at least be involved with the project17:07
evanrmurphymeeting in 25 minutes, right?17:07
kenvandinemember is the best way to identify involvement17:07
kenvandineevanrmurphy, yup17:07
jcastroI'm not going to complain if someone is doing it but doesn't want to become a member17:07
hggdhthe point is we have about 500 members, and thousands of projects17:07
jcastrohggdh: well, we can concentrate on the big ones17:08
kenvandinehggdh, not all projects need them17:08
kenvandinemany of them just take care of themselves17:08
dobeypitti: hey. just uploaded new ubuntuone-storage-protocol to REVU with the watch file17:08
hggdhk17:08
kenvandinedobey, great17:08
dobeypitti: and ubuntuone-client with a watch file and a few more nitpick fixes17:08
pittidobey: cool, thanks; will review ASAP (tomorrow morning, need to leave soon)17:10
dobeyok, cool17:11
seb128hggdh: there is no real need to get a contact for packages which didn't get updated for years and have 0 bugs ;-)17:13
pittiok, I'm off for today17:13
pittisee you tomorrow!17:14
hggdhseb128, oh, I agree with that. My point is that we might be setting the bar too high. There are others, active, that are not members.17:14
asacpitti: cu17:14
seb128pitti: have fun, see you tomorrow17:14
hggdhmotus, for example17:14
seb128hggdh: right, nobody said you have to be official member but better to work on ubuntu to be ubuntu contact ...17:14
seb128hggdh: I don't think anybody discussed that or suggested that motu would not be good for the job ;-)17:15
hggdhseb128, well, jcastro has it in the wiki as a prereq17:15
hggdhthe very first one, in fact17:16
seb128what do you call ubuntu member?17:16
seb128is there motus which are not members?17:16
huatsseb128: no17:16
seb128huats: what I though ;-)17:16
huatsmotus get membership automatically17:16
* hggdh learns ;-)\17:17
huatsubuntu membership is granted for a certain level of work in the community17:17
huatsit was granted by the CC and now it is granted by the various regional boards17:17
seb128hggdh: it basically means that you know the project and code of conduct and contributed to ubuntu17:18
asacawe: RE VPN plugins: so was the move of the autotools.mk and the other thing i asked about intentional?17:18
huatsyou need to have signed the CoC indeed17:18
hggdhseb128, OK. So I will bite one or two projects17:18
seb128excellent!17:18
seb128hggdh: evolution? ;-)17:19
hggdh:-)17:19
hggdhyes, evo and, methinks, coreutisl17:19
seb128\o/17:19
asacArneGoetje: do you know if the moz rosetta import problem we talked about a while back is fixed now?17:19
hggdhSo. jcastro, how do I apply to be a contact?17:20
rickspencer3team meeting in 10 mins!17:21
rickspencer3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-2317:21
* bryce grabs coffee17:28
asacawe: i updated the comparison table and added MM cols ... also added two more rows can you check the ? and see if you know about that?17:29
rickspencer3everybody, ready?17:30
* evanrmurphy prepares to audit17:30
aweasac: sure, will do17:30
* asac runs and gets a coffee (30 sec)17:30
asacawe: also i changed bluetooth rows17:31
asacok i am ready :)17:31
* asac waves17:31
ArneGoetjeasac: not yet... will land tomorrow17:31
asacgreat17:32
rickspencer3yoinks17:32
rickspencer3looks like we're ready to go17:32
kenvandineyup17:32
rickspencer3so pitti (who's not here) asked me to make a couple of announcements for him17:32
rickspencer3"gentle reminders" as he put it17:33
rickspencer3pitti: Reminder: do you merges (https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)17:33
rickspencer3also, spec status17:33
rickspencer3are there any specs that aren't approved yet, but should be, or will be soon?17:33
kenvandinerickspencer3, only ones i know of are the DX ones17:34
asaci think the network-ui isnt approved. we have to resubmit it after doing some minor adjustments pitti wanted to see17:34
kenvandinewhich should happen this week17:34
* asac pushes this high on his list17:34
ccheneyhi17:34
asacbut tasks are already in there and so on.17:34
rickspencer3kenvandine: looks like there is "integrating with U1, and also couchdb on the list)17:34
kenvandineoh right17:34
rickspencer3asac: ack17:34
kenvandinethose aren't approved yet17:35
asac(so just a formal signoff thing)17:35
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: language-selector. waiting for mpt to update the mockup. but it's reviewd by pitti already.17:35
rickspencer3looks like we're close to having it all apporved17:35
asackenvandine: does couchdb involve getting it in main?17:35
kenvandineyes17:35
asactoo bad. means we have to open flood gates for consumers of not exported mozjs api :(17:35
kenvandineasac, ?17:36
asackenvandine: previously we didnt let things in that linked against mozjs17:36
asac(in main)17:36
kenvandineah17:36
asacbecause there is no upstreawm ABI/API policy17:36
kenvandineeek17:36
asaceven though in practice they dont break it in security update, they dont rally commit to it17:37
rickspencer3kenvandine: is this an issue that you need to sort out for the MIR?17:37
asackenvandine: you can probably see that in the ugly LD_LIBRARY_PATH hack i added to it in my upload (last week?)17:37
kenvandinerickspencer3, looks like it17:37
kenvandinerickspencer3, we will obviously need to discuss that17:38
kenvandineasac, i will ping you when we do that MIR17:38
asacyes. lets put that as an action item17:38
rickspencer3ACTION: kenvandine to investigate mozjz linkage and ABI/API policy17:38
kenvandinemozjs17:38
rickspencer3hehe17:38
kenvandine:)17:38
rickspencer3java zcript17:38
rickspencer3http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png17:38
rickspencer3looks like someone pulled a bunch of work out of Karmic yesterday?17:38
asacwow ... someone flipped a bunch of things to done ;)17:39
rickspencer3asac: not really, they just removed the work items17:39
asachmm. guess the trend line needs to get adjustment when that happens?17:39
rickspencer3changes in scope are reflected by changes in the total height of the bar17:39
rickspencer3asac: changing scope is a valid way to stay below the trend line17:39
seb128is the trend bar the target or the current speed?17:39
rickspencer3however, I suspect that the scope did not truly change, and that someone broke it somehow17:40
asacrickspencer3: yeah. but if you adjust it by offset changing scope will also narrow gap.17:40
rickspencer3seb128: closer to target ... it's the speed at which you would have to resolve items to exactly fill capacity but still be ontime17:40
asacbut ok ;)17:41
rickspencer3in any case, if you changed work items on your blueprint, please check to make sure that you didn't break the burndown chart script17:41
* rickspencer3 wonders if the link to kubuntu todo broke17:41
rickspencer3ok, next announcement:17:41
rickspencer3The location of the Karmic sprint was confirmed last week17:42
rickspencer3did anyone *not* see that?17:42
* seb128 did see that17:42
* asac too17:42
* ArneGoetje too17:42
awe+117:42
rickspencer3ok17:43
rickspencer3so get your airfare, etc...17:43
kenvandineworking on it already :)17:43
brycerickspencer3, hmm, that drop in the curve might have been me marking the xorg blueprint "Completed"?  All the work items were done so I figured that was safe to do now?17:43
rickspencer3bryce: interesting17:43
brycerickspencer3, I had assumed that they'd still show up on the graph though... script bug?17:44
rickspencer3bryce: could be17:44
rickspencer3we can look at the database later, and see what's not in there, etc...17:44
rickspencer3kenvandine: partner status update?17:44
bryceok17:44
kenvandineok17:45
bryce(maybe I'm wrong; xorg had only 7 tasks, but ~30 are missing)17:45
kenvandinei have updated the ubuntuone status page17:45
kenvandineto reflect the spec the u1 team created for karmic integration17:46
kenvandinehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/DesktopIntegration/Status17:46
kenvandinei also added some desktop stuff at the bottom that i care about as well17:46
kenvandinei am still working on getting a view into the DX team's iterations17:46
kenvandineso we can get a similar wiki page17:47
kenvandineor ideally work items with a burn down chart for them17:47
rickspencer3kenvandine: I think they are still working on their planning and plan to be done eow, right?17:47
kenvandinedbarth promised that this week17:47
kenvandineyes17:47
kenvandinethat is all i have right now17:47
rickspencer3so for U1, it looks like file sharing and desktop integration are in good shape17:48
kenvandineyup17:48
rickspencer3great17:48
rickspencer3I think that Riddell is canoeing today17:48
rickspencer3so no Kubuntu update17:48
rickspencer3bryce: X?17:48
asac(kenvandine: could you remind ubuntuone folks to get in touch with you/me/mvo for the third party whitelisting application (for < karmic) ?)17:48
kenvandinewhitelisting?17:49
brycerickspencer3, shall I paste or just discuss what's on the meeting summary page?17:49
rickspencer3bryce, just discuss, Ithink17:49
rickspencer3but first ...17:50
rickspencer3asac: kenvandine: is the whitelisting for Jaunty?17:50
asackenvandine: they wanted to apply to whitelist their ppa for single click install through apturl -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyRepositoryApplicationProcess; lets talk after meeting17:50
brycemerges - we're ahead of the curve.  Most stuff merged in; remaining priorities in PPAs.17:50
kenvandineah17:50
kenvandineasac, yeah... lets talk about that17:50
rickspencer3ACTION: kenvandine to work with asac regarding white listing of U117:50
rickspencer3bryce: how do you know you are ahead?17:51
brycexorg overall stability is good, bugs have leveled off.  However we've got a few merges and changes (kms by default on -intel) coming in that should destabilize things a bit.17:51
brycerickspencer3, we track outstanding merges here - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/PkgList/versions_current.html ; plus based on prior releases we're generally not to this point until closer to alpha-317:51
brycerickspencer3, that's the highlights; rest of the details are in the meeting minutes17:52
rickspencer3so you can tell from that list that you'll need to do a certain number of merges per week, and you are ahead of that number? nice17:52
bryceessentially, yes17:53
rickspencer3great that the kernel updates have relieved Jaunty intel users!17:54
rickspencer3that was quite a long row to hoe!17:54
bryceyeah17:54
rickspencer3congrats17:54
brycealso, we're doing things a little differently this time around by using PPAs more heavily17:54
bryceso if anyone here is bored with X being too stable in karmic, you're encouraged to load the xorg-edgers PPA17:54
rickspencer3lol17:54
kenvandinehehe17:54
brycewe have new versions of -nvidia, -fglrx, -intel... pretty much everything17:55
seb128will it fix xorg eating gigabytes of memory a day? ;-)17:55
rickspencer3bryce: nice job on xorg-edgers, btw17:55
bryceas we get testing feedback, those bits will then be loaded into karmic17:55
kenvandinei switched to vesa because of the memory issue on 96517:55
kenvandine:)17:55
rickspencer3while we're looking at bryce's versions list, as an aside:17:55
rickspencer3http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html17:55
bryceseb128, mm, there is a patch for that I believe.  Not sure on the status at the moment17:55
seb128is the edgers ppa crack of the day or candidate updates?17:56
bryceseb128, primarily git snapshots, but there are candidate updates mixed in as well17:57
seb128ok17:57
brycewe considered breaking those out, but it's too many ppas to manage already17:57
rickspencer3thanks bryce17:57
rickspencer3good update17:57
rickspencer3moving on ...17:58
rickspencer3paper cut bugs17:58
seb128you can click on the "+" need to the package column title to get extra components on versions.html17:58
seb128feel free to discuss extra components to add if you are interested to see something else there17:58
rickspencer3check that out17:58
pedro_i was going to ask for empathy but it's already there, nice :-)17:58
seb128we could maybe split the tables17:59
seb128ie have a telepathy* table too17:59
seb128anyway we can discuss that out of the meeting17:59
rickspencer3seb128: could you programitically create a list of *all* the packages?17:59
seb128"all"?18:00
rickspencer3(in a seperate list, of course)18:00
rickspencer3versions looks like all the gnome packages that you actively maintain18:00
seb128well we need somebody to define the upstream tarballs location to get the upstream versions18:00
rickspencer3ah18:00
rickspencer3so, no18:00
seb128and it would probably take a while to pull versions for the whole universe18:00
rickspencer3but if someone from the community was interested in a package, they could ask you18:00
seb128but we could do a page daily updated with a broader scope18:01
seb128yes18:01
seb128everything we would like to make sure is updated should be added18:01
seb128maybe a core page for what we work on (ie what is on the CD)18:01
rickspencer3that would be a good idea18:02
seb128and a community page listing all the nice desktopish applications we would like to get uptodate too18:02
rickspencer3and a page of "needs community updater"18:02
rickspencer3schweet18:02
seb128right18:02
rickspencer3and for the second page, folks can just ask you for items for that page18:02
seb128anyway code is available on launchpad and we will keep tweaking it18:02
rickspencer3this is very cool18:02
seb128we might add the components list in a public place so anybody can add a component to the second table18:03
rickspencer3great collaboration tool, plus provides transparency18:03
seb128and it makes much easier for us to know what to do18:03
seb128anyway enough of the topic for the meeting I guess ;-)18:03
rickspencer3ok18:03
rickspencer3moving on18:03
rickspencer3paper cut bugs18:03
rickspencer3anyone pick any off for this week?18:04
kenvandinenot yet... but plan to18:04
rickspencer3okay18:04
rickspencer3I'd like everyone to shoot for one paper cut bug every two weeks18:04
rickspencer3but one per week would be better18:04
rickspencer3:)18:04
rickspencer3any other business?18:05
aweseb128 didn't you pick off the gnome-keyring?18:05
awebug18:05
rickspencer3lol18:05
seb128which one?18:05
asacthought that too18:05
asacNM + keyring18:05
awebug #16271018:05
asac+ auto login18:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 162710 in hundredpapercuts "Cannot access wireless networks keys when user change his session password." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16271018:05
rickspencer3seb128: did you really?18:05
seb128I like the papercut idea18:05
awethe sync fixed it18:06
seb128but they picked not so easy bugs in many cases18:06
awe+!18:06
seb128rickspencer3: no18:06
rickspencer3seb128: ok18:06
rickspencer3you rocked that18:06
rickspencer3hold on18:06
seb128the sync fixed the password change issue18:06
seb128autologin is not the same issue18:06
rickspencer3cool18:06
seb128and I doubt we will fix this one easily18:06
rickspencer3so if the bug is not easy to fix, it's not a paper cut18:06
seb128well, we should define how easy it has to be18:07
rickspencer3just say in the comment "not easy to fix", maybe a little bit about why, and set it to invalid in the paper cuts project18:07
seb128lot of those bugs are at least one day of work18:07
brycerickspencer3, sometimes a bug can be trivial to fix, but only if you know the package already; if you're coming in cold, coming up to speed learning the codebase structure can consume quite a bit of time18:07
seb128right, I started doing that18:07
seb128but I declared bankrupt there18:07
seb128there got over 900 bugs in a week18:07
ccheneysome bugs may be easier to fix for some people than others, such as artwork change requests18:07
rickspencer3bryce: right, that's why defining "easy" is hard18:07
seb128they flooded my inbox so much that I stopped reading bug emails mostly now18:07
brycerickspencer3, indeed18:07
* ccheney isn't an artist by any stretch ;-)18:07
rickspencer3ccheney: you should never get an art bug without attached art18:08
ccheneyrickspencer3: ah so these papercut bugs are just papercut bugs that are also assigned to you?18:08
rickspencer3I think we need to be flexible with how we approach this18:08
pedro_seb128: i've created a special vfolder for those, otherwise it's really too much to read :-/18:08
asacseb128: traffic - just by adding the papercuts task? or because they explicitly asked for your input?18:08
* ccheney has seen lots of papercut bugs in OOo in general18:08
rickspencer3ccheney: they will be in the paper cuts projects18:08
ccheneyrickspencer3: ok18:09
rickspencer3ccheney: yes, that's because OOo is very important to people, and they use it a lot18:09
ccheneyrickspencer3: ok, will look through the list some more18:09
seb128asac: because people started adding hundrerpapercut tasks randomly to any bug they want to get looked at by somebody18:10
asacis there any way to query for papercut tasks bugs filed against specific package?18:10
seb128asac: and then arguing why it should be a hundredpapercut and why other have been wrong to not accept it as being one18:10
rickspencer3hmm18:10
seb128asac: I got over a thousand "spams" due to it this week18:11
asacyeah. maybe suggestion should have been done by individual bugs first and only those accepted should get that task18:11
rickspencer3they have batched up the paper cuts in sets of 1018:11
rickspencer310 for each week18:11
rickspencer3I would ignore anything that has not made it onto that list18:11
seb128rickspencer3: well to reach that I got over a thousand noise emails before18:11
brycerickspencer3, where is the listing of the 100?  The bug tracker seems to have several hundred bugs in it18:11
seb128and people keep complaining on lot of bugs about their bug not having been accepted as hundredpapercut now18:11
seb128is a bit like people arguing over bug closing18:11
awe442 open18:12
rickspencer3the project drew much more interest than was anticipated18:12
seb128bryce: look for round-n milestones18:12
rickspencer3the design team is sending a mail each week to #ubuntu-devel that has the list for that week18:12
rickspencer3I would probably ignore anything except the list on that email18:12
seb128rickspencer3: well, I sort of expected it would turn this way when they blogged about it and told them but they said they were fine with filtering the noise as long as they get the 10018:12
awehttps://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestones18:13
seb128rickspencer3: well the things is that they are using standard ubuntu bugs so you can't ignore those easily18:13
seb128ie they take an open bug and anybody can add an hundredpapercut task18:13
seb128which turn the bug which was quiet for years to a discussion forum where people argue on why it should be an hundredpapercut18:14
rickspencer3ok18:14
rickspencer3the important thing is that there exists a good list of bugs, and now it's time to get 100 fixe18:14
rickspencer3d18:14
seb128anyway something to consider for the next cycle we might want to use a different medium to discuss those18:14
seb128right18:14
rickspencer3:)18:14
seb128should we spend some work time on those goals?18:14
rickspencer3if they repeat this process, we should certainly figure a better way18:15
seb128or rather consider it as a community project?18:15
rickspencer3work time18:15
rickspencer3I would say if you see a bug that you think you are the best person to fix18:15
seb128higher rating than spec work?18:15
brycerickspencer3, also if this is something our team is taking the responsibility to commit time to doing, it would have been nice to have had some input into how the project was set up at the outset.18:15
seb128I will have difficulties to make space for those and all my specs ... what should be focus on?18:15
Amaranthyeah, an old compiz bug about how show desktop works has one guy basically saying "patch it to do what I want or remove it from Ubuntu"18:15
Amaranthgood times18:16
seb128(I guess I'm not alone in this case)18:16
rickspencer3I would say it's as important as spec work18:16
brycerickspencer3, seb128's comments about people just using it to flag their pet bugs troubles me.18:16
rickspencer3bryce: this was all discussed at UDS, etc...18:16
rickspencer3the design team is carefully vetting the input18:16
rickspencer3and anyway, it's too late now18:16
seb128bryce: as rickspencer3 said the design team pick 10 a week and email the official list18:16
seb128so we should work on those selected18:17
seb128they use milestones for the "official" lists too18:17
Amaranthback when there were only ~250 bugs reported as paper cuts I went through all of them and tried to filter out junk and assign things to the right place18:17
rickspencer3so I would suggest budgeting about half a day every two weeks or so18:17
Amaranthpeople are opening bugs against only the paper cuts project, not an ubuntu package18:17
ccheneylooks like 50% of them are nautilus bugs, heh18:17
kenvandineinteresting18:17
seb128Amaranth: some people have been "fixing" that18:17
rickspencer3in two weeks we can check in and see how it's working18:17
seb128right18:18
rickspencer3keep the big picture in mind ... it's important that we help the design team to succeed with this18:18
rickspencer3of course, we won't have time to fix all the bugs, but it looks like a lot of community support is flowing in as well18:19
awerickspencer3: hmmm... if people are using the project wrong ( ie. creating direct bugs ), shouldn't that be prevented?18:19
rickspencer3awe: unfortunately, launchpad does not have the means of preventing that now, but should in the future18:19
seb128let's not discuss the bug flow now, they nominated most bugs now anyway18:19
rickspencer3seb128: right18:19
seb128that's not a concern until next cycle if we do that again18:19
rickspencer3any other business?18:19
rickspencer3meeting adjourned?18:20
seb128thanks rickspencer318:20
kenvandineyup18:20
kenvandinethx18:20
awesee ya18:20
rickspencer3thanks all!18:20
Amaranthoops, was a meeting :P18:20
ArneGoetjethanks18:20
asacthx18:20
ccheneythanks18:20
brycethanks18:20
evanrmurphythanks18:21
tkamppeterthanks18:21
rickspencer3hi tkamppeter!18:21
tkamppeterrickspencer3: hi18:21
superm1asac, with the next upstream release of bluez we should be able to drop the bluetooth init script in favor of udev rules for spawning it.  could you make sure that whatever the solution ends up being (gnome-bluetooth/blueman etc) handles this properly? eg doesn't show an icon unless bluetoothd is actually running?18:26
awerickspencer3: question for you on the papercuts.  if the fix would take more than 1/2 day, it should get pushed from the list?18:26
rickspencer3awe: not necessarily18:26
rickspencer3BUT18:26
rickspencer3if it will take *you* more than half a day, probably don't fix it18:26
seb128I think we should have both easy and challenging targets18:27
asacsuperm1: for NM not showing the icon was rather confusing. blueman etc. should show an error in the tray i think18:27
rickspencer3someone else may want to spend a day or two onit18:27
seb128challenging targets might not get fixed but if they do they are usually worth it18:27
asacsuperm1: which is what we do for NM now too18:27
awesure, maybe it should get moved to a different milestone?18:27
superm1asac, but what if you don't have any BT hardware in the system?  should the BT icon really be there?18:27
rickspencer3if you think it will take anyone more than a day to fix, I would set it to invalid18:27
asacsuperm1: will that cause bluetoothd not being running?18:27
asaci would think that it runs anyway, just doesnt find adapters18:28
superm1asac, exactly. it will only run when you have something that identifies as using the bluetooth subsystem to udev18:28
asacsuperm1: oh you wrote udev rules ok18:29
asaci thought you ment dbus activation18:29
asacsuperm1: when will the upstream release happen?18:29
awerickspencer3: who's running the 100 papercuts?  so you're essentially saying if it'll take more than a day to fix, then mark the PaperCut portion of the bug as Invalid with an explanation of why18:29
superm1they're pretty frequent, probably within 2-3 weeks18:30
rickspencer3awe: djsiegel1 is running it18:30
superm1it was  exactly 2 weeks between the last two releases18:30
aweduh, i should've known that by now after reading all the bug reports recently18:30
rickspencer3and yes, that is my guidance, though it's guidance, not a hard and firm rule18:30
rickspencer3I would suggest that we approach the project flexibly, as it is the first time doing something like this, the correct processes and such will not be clear until we are done18:31
aweok.  i'll add a comment and let him move it to another milestone or mark invalid at his discretion.  diplomacy never hurts the 1st time around18:31
rickspencer3hehe18:31
* kenvandine heads to lunch... bbiab18:33
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
* rickspencer3-afk time for a cup of tea18:34
Tm_Trickspencer3-afk: why this public away?18:34
rickspencer3-afkTm_T: why is what public?18:34
Tm_Trickspencer3-afk: awaynick and stuff (:18:34
rickspencer3-afkTm_T: it's just a habit so that our teammates are aware of our status18:35
hggdhseb128, have you seen http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2009-June/msg00018.html?18:36
Tm_Trickspencer3-afk: interesting18:36
seb128hggdh: no, thanks*18:38
djsiegel1awe: hey18:38
djsiegel1awe: that heuristic is rough18:38
hggdhdiscussion is still going on, and I will not be able to make it to the next meeting this Thursday (srag has rescheduled it)18:39
awedjsiegel1: hey, one sec.. in a kernel discussion18:39
djsiegel1ok18:39
seb128hggdh: things can be discussed out of the meeting though ;-)18:39
hggdh:-)18:39
djsiegel1(awe: for example, if a bug would take a week to fix, it might not be a paper cut, but if there's already a 250-line patch and it would only take a day to update and merge it, then it could be a paper cut) I've got to run, sorry!18:40
awedjsiegel1: np, i'll update the bug in question...18:41
djsiegel1awe: which one?18:43
awebug # 38690018:44
djsiegel1yes, mt commented that it may be fixed later in the cycle by nm work18:44
djsiegel1?18:44
djsiegel1Make a comment with what you know, I will try to reschedule it18:45
aweit might be, maybe it should be moved to a later milestone?18:45
djsiegel1yeah, sounds good18:45
djsiegel1we can push it to round-10, there are some trivial ones on round-10 we can swap18:45
awethat'd be great18:46
djsiegel1if you can change the milestone, feel free, or I can, but I have to run! thanks for the input18:46
awei'll add comments, as there's a related bug that i entered recently about the "auto" prefix being used for network names in other places18:46
bryceheh, firefox crashes when I try attaching a file and the file dialog tries to autocomplete a filename.18:47
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
hggdhseb128, so... how to deal with srag's proposal?18:54
asacawe: so what do those {1} {2} ... things mean in the comparison table?18:56
aweasac: notes that i need to add18:59
awejust short 1-liners that explain things briefly18:59
asack18:59
seb128hggdh: discussion on the upstream irc channel19:06
ccheneyasac: do you have a plan of when to switch default firefox package over to 3.5?19:08
bryceccheney, wow, you're right, well over half these papercuts are to nautilus19:12
* awalton__ is not surprised.19:13
bryceunfortunately the only one I saw that looked like an xorg bug, wasn't a valid papercut (and not reported well enough to do anything on) :-(19:13
chrisccoulsondoes the "About Ubuntu" shortcut appear in the system menu for anyone in Karmic?19:15
brycechrisccoulson, I see only About GNOME19:15
chrisccoulsonbryce - thanks19:15
chrisccoulsoni wonder why that is then :-/19:16
ccheneybryce: same for me on one of the OOo bugs, i just asked the design team in the bug what to do about it :)19:29
bryceccheney, yeah seems to be quite a few where there needs to be a design decision made first19:30
brycee.g. #295989 doesn't look hard to implement, but there are half a dozen different names proposed to change *to*, so how to pick which to use?19:30
bryceguess I'll mark it incomplete and ask for a design decision19:31
tgpraveenbug 29598919:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 295989 in nautilus ""Archive mounter" should have better name" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29598919:32
asacccheney: we have the firefox 3.5 transition spec19:33
* ccheney just switched over to 3.5 today to try it out19:33
asacccheney: but go ahead and use the current firefox-3.519:33
asaccool19:33
asacuse that as default. its the release candidate19:34
asacbranding my still be unofficial for a bit19:34
awalton__bryce, not sure anyone upstream cares very much what it gets changed to...19:34
asacmight19:34
awalton__just need someone to propose a name, I guess.19:34
ccheneyasac: ok19:35
awalton__bryce, btw, that bug is a gvfs bug, not nautilus19:35
bryceawalton__, mm, in a way it's a dupe of bug 15495.  Sounds like it needs some code rearchitecting.  maybe it's not a papercut19:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 15495 in hundredpapercuts ""Archive Manager" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an "archive" is" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549519:39
awalton__bryce, needs quite a lot of love. is ubuntu even shipping it enabled these days?19:39
awalton__I remember at one point it wasn't, but that might have changed19:40
brycewell I can reproduce the issue on karmic if that's what you mean19:40
awalton__wonder when that changed then19:43
awalton__it's a better way to interact with archives, but really, it's usefulness is quite limited by what libarchive can do19:43
kenvandinepedro_, ping19:48
pedro_kenvandine: hey19:48
kenvandinehey pedro_, got a request for a bug/hug day19:48
kenvandineempathy related, but focus on msn support19:48
kenvandineusing the latest telepathy-butterfly19:49
pedro_kenvandine: sure so butterfly or haze?19:49
kenvandineget some meaningful but reports19:49
kenvandinebug19:49
kenvandinebutterfly19:49
kenvandinethere are lots of complaints about that19:49
kenvandineand looking at upstream bug reports... there just aren't very many19:49
pedro_was the latest one uploaded to karmic ?19:49
kenvandineyeah, not built yet19:50
kenvandinei can get it in a ppa for jaunty as well19:50
kenvandineif that helps get more eyes on it19:50
pedro_would be nice if the ppa could get the latest one as well so people with jaunty can give us feedback as well19:50
pedro_that'd rock!19:50
kenvandinei already have the latest empathy in my ppa19:50
kenvandinewith indicator support :)19:50
pedro_awesome!19:51
pedro_ok let me add it to the planning page then19:51
kenvandinegreat19:51
kenvandinethx19:51
kenvandinelet me know when you need the desired bits in a ppa... and i can make sure we have the latest stuff19:51
pedro_my pleasure19:51
kenvandinemsn is the biggest complaint we get19:51
pedro_alright will do it ;-)19:51
kenvandinelets help upstream fix it19:52
kenvandineideally in time for karmic :)19:52
pedro_indeed19:52
hyperairwhat's up with empathy and msn?19:53
kenvandinehyperair, most of our complaints about empathy is msn support19:53
kenvandinebut looking upstream, there aren't very many bugs...19:53
tgpraveenkenvandine: please upload latest empathy ver to ppa for jaunty users really would like to test it and file bugs19:53
hyperairkenvandine: doesn't empathy support msn?19:54
kenvandinetgpraveen, already done... one sec19:54
kenvandinehyperair, yes... but it is buggy19:54
kenvandinehttps://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/empathy19:54
kenvandinetgpraveen, please report bugs!19:55
hyperairah i see19:55
kenvandinehyperair, evidently it is far from as good as it is in pidgin19:55
kenvandinethere are only 23 open bugs in upstreams bugzilla19:55
tgpraveenkenvandine: from what I heard the latest release of empathy and butterfly fixed most of the issues19:59
kenvandinewell it kind of works now for chat19:59
kenvandineit is a little crashy19:59
tgpraveenkenvandine: if I install 27.3 from ur ppa and then I remove ur ppa then I can resinstall the older version from synaptic right?20:00
kenvandineyes20:00
tgpraveenkenvandine: did you build with adium themes support?20:01
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
kenvandineyes20:01
tgpraveenkenvandine: k. cool .thx20:01
kenvandinethe webkit version you need for jaunty is in the same ppa20:01
tgpraveenwill running update mgr after adding ur ppa be enough for adium support or do I manually have to install webkit?20:02
kenvandineit will grab it for you20:03
tgpraveennice20:03
bryceccheney, eh, too many of these papercuts need design decisions made first.20:08
ccheneybryce: yea20:08
brycewell, I posted a couple patches where the task was clear, but I think I'm wasting my time on too many that are still stuck in committee :-)20:09
djsiegel1bryce: any in particular you want design team feedback on?20:10
bryceplus my 2 hrs is up20:10
brycedjsiegel1, yeah I put comments on the ones I thought needed feedback on20:10
djsiegel1ok20:10
brycedjsiegel1, even the two patches I put up probably need design review to make sure that's what you want them to be20:10
djsiegel1right20:11
bryce(plus the gnome team has to accept them and add them to bzr, etc.)20:11
djsiegel1any improvements are welcome, they don't have to be the perfect solution or have design team approval20:11
djsiegel1but we are happy to help the ones that need design work20:11
djsiegel1or user testing20:11
brycedjsiegel1, well, the things I was looking at was just string changes, so they really are quite trivial, but most of the work is deciding *what* string to use20:12
djsiegel1oh, cool20:12
bryceso those really are mostly design work20:12
bryceonce the decision is made, the actual coding is a one liner (usually)20:12
djsiegel1bryce: mind if I schedule the 'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name' bug for this week?20:13
djsiegel1I need to move a round-1 paper cut to round-1020:13
djsiegel1and vice versa20:14
brycedjsiegel1, sure20:14
djsiegel1cool20:14
brycedjsiegel1, btw one procedural thing I'd suggest that might help20:14
brycedjsiegel1, do a search against all papercut bugs with more than >N comments, and then re-review those20:14
bryceI suspect many papercut bugs with large numbers of comments have some dissent about design approach, that will need some decision made20:15
djsiegel1because that many comments may indicate unsettled design issues?20:15
djsiegel1ok20:15
bryceright20:15
djsiegel1good idea20:15
* bryce -> lunch20:15
djsiegel1bryce: I will look into the calendar applet -- we definitely want clicking on the desktop to dismiss that menu, which doesn't work in Jaunty.20:25
seb128djsiegel1: not really no20:27
kenvandinedjsiegel1, it is a window... which is why it behaves that way20:27
seb128some users keep that menu open while working20:27
djsiegel1right, I meant click on the desktop wallpaper20:27
seb128it's a calendar with weather informations20:27
seb128well right, some people don't want it to close when clicking on the wallpaper20:28
seb128it doesn't seem so obvious20:28
ccheneyasac: is there a way to have gnome use ff3.5 as default browser, it seems to not show up in the web browser list20:28
djsiegel1kenvandine: it's a window as kind of coincidental20:28
kenvandinedjsiegel1, i think there was a reason... i don't recall20:28
djsiegel1it uses a window because it was easier to implement that way, we should let the fact that it is a window decide how it should be used20:28
djsiegel1should not let*20:28
kenvandinedjsiegel1, agreed20:29
djsiegel1seb128: some people will always be upset by the design decisions, we will have to figure out which decision to make20:29
djsiegel1right now, it doesn't behave like the indicator applet20:29
djsiegel1or the volume20:29
djsiegel1I understand that it's a huge widget with more uses20:30
seb128djsiegel1: I don't think we got lot of complain about the calendar applet if any, that doesn't seem an obvious target for change20:30
djsiegel1do you have an alternate suggestion?20:30
seb128other bugs to work on or about this applet?20:31
djsiegel1other bugs20:31
djsiegel1I can replace it if you want to overrule it20:31
djsiegel1let me run it by mpt tomorrow20:31
djsiegel1panel is his deal20:31
seb128I don't overrule it, I've just joined in the middle of the discussion20:31
seb128I just know it's not something users complain about20:32
djsiegel1someone complained about it20:32
seb128and I know some people make use of the current behaviour20:32
djsiegel1that's true20:32
tgpraveenkenvandine: so i got working 2.2.7.3 working .thx for that20:33
tgpraveenthough i was wondering that with the messaging indicator support20:33
kenvandinegreat20:33
tgpraveenhow will things like20:33
tgpraveenvoice chat, video chat work20:34
kenvandinei tink they show up there, and you have to click them20:34
Nafalloseb128: are you the NEW guy today?20:34
seb128not today but I can do newing if required20:34
tgpraveenpreviously when a voice chat came to activate the voice chat dialogue the flashing icon of empathy had to be clicked upon what now?20:34
djsiegel1bryce, please don't invalidate paper cuts just because there is a lot of discussion. Nowhere have we decided that paper cuts must have a design decision on them before they can be marked confirmed.20:35
seb128Nafallo: do you need to get anything newed?20:35
Nafalloseb128: python-configglue binaries. ubuntuone-client is broken based on them.20:35
seb128looking20:35
kenvandinetgpraveen, i think it shows up in the indicator20:35
Nafalloseb128: thanks mate :-)20:35
seb128Nafallo: it has only .py files is there any reason it's not arch all?20:37
seb128oh it is20:38
seb128the script log is confusing20:38
seb128looks ok20:38
seb128Nafallo: accepted20:38
Nafalloseb128: thanks :-)20:38
seb128you're welcome20:38
Nafalloseb128: and you're awesome! :-)20:38
seb128thanks ;-)20:39
seb128hum20:39
seb128so the empathy notification area icon does nothing if you click on it and the list is open somewhere else20:39
kenvandineit should toggle... i don't get the icon though... using the messaging indicator20:40
seb128I'm still using 2.27.220:40
seb128but it doesn't toggle, it does nothing20:40
seb128I clicked several time on it I though it was hanging20:40
kenvandinei think it does actually toggle in .320:41
kenvandineit definately toggles with the indicator in .320:41
seb128ok, I need to sponsor the new version ;-)20:41
tgpraveenyes it toggles with .320:41
kenvandineseb128, please... a bunch of people are using it from my ppa now :)20:42
seb128kenvandine: did you rebase on debian or did somebody else did that?20:42
kenvandinesomeone else did20:42
kenvandinebut their patch includes my patch20:42
seb128kenvandine: dholbach commented on your bug because you didn't change the binaries for the soname change or something20:42
seb128ok good20:42
seb128I will do sponsoring in a bit20:42
kenvandinethx20:42
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i notice that gnome-panel build-depends on liblaunchpad-integration-dev, but there is no launchpad integration AFAICT. do you want me to drop the depends?20:53
seb128chrisccoulson: yes20:53
seb128it used to use it but we stopped because people were using that to open bugs on anything20:54
chrisccoulsoncool, i'll do that20:54
chrisccoulsonyeah, that could be quite annoying20:54
asacccheney: currently set your custom command. we will add a .xml file that will add the app21:15
ccheneyasac: ok21:16
djsiegel1what is the mailinglist for this team?21:17
seb128ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com is what we use usually21:18
djsiegel1so, can I email to that?21:19
seb128yes21:20
djsiegel1do I need to join the desktop team, am I allowed to?21:20
seb128the list is moderated but we will accept the email21:20
djsiegel1ok, will send, thank you so much!21:20
seb128you're welcome21:20
Nafallodjsiegel1: just don't send them spam ;-)21:21
djsiegel1Nafallo: no spam, but my rich NIgerian uncle want put you money order you send credit card account I wire you $50 milliion united state dollars21:22
Nafallodjsiegel1: \☺/21:22
Nafallohmm21:28
ccheneybryce: is poulsbo going to be supported in karmic?21:51
* ccheney is eyeing a tiny desktop system that uses it and only consumes 8w under load21:52
bryceccheney, that's a tseliot question21:52
ccheneybryce: ah ok21:52
* ccheney may wait and see what happens with the next gen due out in Oct21:52
bryceccheney, but even if it is supported, I'd recommend picking something -intel-ish, esp. if you plan to run karmic21:53
brycethe dell mini 10v looks pretty sweet21:53
bryceesp. with ssd and upgraded battery21:53
ccheneybryce: what i was looking at is the fit-pc221:53
ccheneywhatever they replace poulsbo with for low power hopefully will have less issues with linux :-\21:54
brycecute21:55
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i've done the gnome-panel update. i pushed it to lp:~chrisccoulson/gnome-panel/ubuntu for now, as I wasn't sure whether to push it to ubuntu-desktop now or wait until you took a look at it21:55
seb128chrisccoulson: you can use the ubuntu-desktop vcs directly it's easier for whoever does the review21:56
ccheneybryce: using something that low power would save me a few hundred dollars a year for my desktop due to electricity costs21:56
chrisccoulsonseb128 - ok, i'll do that now. thanks:)21:56
seb128you're welcome21:56
bryceccheney, but don't you live in Texas?21:57
Nafalloseb128: how well do you know busybox? (#u-desktop) ;-)21:57
ccheneybryce: er yea?21:57
* ccheney pays ~ $0.15/kw21:57
seb128Nafallo: not at all21:57
bryceccheney, I'm just hassling you ;-)21:58
ccheneybryce: heh :)21:58
bryceccheney, fwiw I think the mini 10v has pretty good power usage even though it's a i945 video.  At least, the battery life on it is phenomenal21:59
ccheneybryce: ah, i have a regular mini 10 at the moment, i think it will be replaced with 10v sometime soon21:59
brycehow's the power usage on the one you have?22:00
ccheneynot sure, i forgot to hook it up to my killawatt22:00
* ccheney boots it up to see22:02
ccheneyhits 14w during bootup at least22:02
chrisccoulsonheh. i wish my desktop got that low;)22:07
ccheneylooks like its hard to make it go over 14w22:09
ccheneyidle ~ 11w at full bright screen22:09
ccheneyidle full dim screen ~ 9w22:10
chrisccoulsonccheney - does your power metre measure power factor too?22:10
ccheneyyea22:10
ccheneywas between 0.4 and 0.522:10
chrisccoulsonyeah, i think most power supplies would struggle to do better than that when not loaded very high22:11
chrisccoulsonmy desktop idles at 95W :(22:12
chrisccoulsonwithout the monitor on22:12
chrisccoulsonit's like an oven in here22:12
ccheneymy laptop at regular load shows at full dim as 13w with spikes to 22w probably due to flash in the background22:12
chrisccoulsonthats not bad22:13
ccheneyat full bright it goes between 18w and 25w22:13
chrisccoulsoni think i might need to invest in a slightly more efficient device22:13
ccheneyits a dual core 2.4ghz which is a bit faster than an atom ;-)22:13
chrisccoulsonnice:)22:13
ccheneysupposedly under windows people have managed to get this laptop down to ~ 6w idle22:15
ccheneythinkpad x20022:15
Nafallobryce: how involved are you in the KMS stuff?22:17
bryceNafallo, tangentially, not deeply22:17
Nafallobryce: reason I'm asking is because I seem to have the wrong resolution, and can't see my buttons ;-)22:17
bryceNafallo, filed a bug?22:18
Nafallobryce: trying to figure out why first :-)22:18
Nafallowhy?22:18
Nafallowhere even!22:18
bryceNafallo, file against linux.  `ubuntu-bug linux`22:19
Nafallomeh. you and your shiny toys :-P22:19
bryceif you tag it "xorg-needs-kernel-fix" then it'll show up in the list of priorities for KMS work22:19
Nafallohaha! kewl22:19
bryceit might be helpful to run `xrandr --verbose > xrandr.txt` and attach that, to show what resolutions you have / don't have22:20
chrisccoulsonwow, there's not many desktop upgrades to do22:21
chrisccoulsonah22:21
chrisccoulsoni didnt expand the package list22:21
seb128chrisccoulson: you though we were slackers? ;-)22:21
Nafallobryce: hmm. I'll do some more digging before I file the bug anyway. I'm not sure what resolution I should have for starters :-P22:22
bryceNafallo, there are also some troubleshooting guides for resolution issues at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/, which may still be of use for figuring out KMS resolution issues22:22
Nafallobryce: eeepc 701 ;-)22:22
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i don't think you and didrocks ever sleep ;)22:22
seb128lol22:22
Nafallochrisccoulson: seb128 is french. he doesn't need sleep!22:23
Nafallothey have frog legs to compensate :-)22:23
seb128didrocks is french too22:23
Nafallosee!22:23
bryceNafallo, mmm, one thing that comes to mind is that we had to quirk a few of the eeepc's in X to work around resolution detection problems.  But I suspect those quirks have not yet been ported to the kernel (they'd need to be rewritten a bit to fit with the code in the kernel aiui)22:23
chrisccoulsoni see a pattern emerging here ;)22:23
Nafallobryce: so yeah. totally confirmed I can't see the full screen :-)22:24
Nafallobryce: 800×480 is what I should have, 800x600 is what I have. totally bug time! ;-)22:26
Nafallobryce: bug 39135422:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 391354 in linux "EeePC 701 have wrong resolution" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39135422:37
Nafallos/have/has/ fixed22:38
ccheneyoh so KMS is enabled now in karmic?22:40
* ccheney should reboot and see if his works now22:40
* ajmitch should probably upgrade the laptop from hardy at some point then22:41
bryceccheney, has the new kernel upload gone through then?22:45
ccheneybryce: oh i thought it had based on what Nafallo said in his bug report22:45
Nafallowell. there was a new kernel. and the changelog talked about KMS I'm pretty sure :-)22:46
ccheneyi don't see anything in changlog for 2.6.30-10.12 about KMS22:46
ccheneyi see something in 10.11 about it but not sure what it means22:46
bryceok yeah andy said last week it would be enabled by default in the next upload22:47
ccheney  * Revert "SAUCE: Default to i915.modeset=0 if CONFIG_DRM_I915_KMS=y"22:47
Nafalloactually. that was a lie indeed. just double checked :-P22:47
ccheneyi think that is where it was turned on Jun 15 (?)22:47
NafalloSOME changelog talked about it at least ;-)22:47
Nafalloccheney: initramfs-tools changelog22:49
ccheneyoh ok22:49
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
aweasac, jono: either of you guys around?23:06
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
asacawe: ?23:13
awewow, you still up?23:14
awe;)23:14
asacsure23:14
Nafalloawe: you really meant to say "wow, is your wifi still up?" right? ;-)23:36
aweNafallo: ;)23:39

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