/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/23/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

bodhi_zazencprofitt: you going to run the meeting ?00:00
bodhi_zazenyou do it so well00:00
cprofittOk...00:00
cprofitt#startmeeting00:01
MootBotMeeting started at 18:01. The chair is cprofitt.00:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]00:01
cprofittWelcome to the UCLP meeting00:01
cprofittplease say present if you are here and attending00:01
bodhi_zazenpresent :)00:01
cprofittplease say present if you are here and attending00:02
dindapresent00:02
bodhi_zazenwelcome dinda ;)00:02
cprofittwelcome DougieRichardson00:02
cprofittI am giving doc a bit of time to get in here as the first topic is again his00:03
DougieRichardsonhey all00:03
cprofittand pleia has the next two...00:03
cprofittif they are not here soon we can skip to my topics which are rather light00:03
bodhi_zazenI have some small issues while we wait if you wish00:04
cprofittsure00:04
bodhi_zazenI brought up a test server here :00:04
bodhi_zazenhttp://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/00:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/00:04
bodhi_zazenwe can use it any way we wish, although I have not set up openid00:05
bodhi_zazenssh access is available, to upload files00:05
bodhi_zazenso if people need it for something, just point them in my direction00:06
cprofittany more bodhi_zazen or should I start with my topics?00:06
bodhi_zazen /end side track00:06
cprofitt[TOPIC] Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.00:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.00:06
cprofitt[LINK] http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=300:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=300:07
cprofittthere are two other courses I have uploaded00:07
cprofitthttp://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=500:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=500:07
cprofitthttp://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=600:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=600:07
cprofittI am curious what people thought of the structure of those courses00:07
cprofittthey were 'found' by me, but not created by me.00:07
cprofittany comments at all or should we move on?00:08
bodhi_zazenI liked the structure of http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=300:08
bodhi_zazenthe one on OOO looked good, did not look at all of it00:09
bodhi_zazenthe one on gimp / inkscape was a bit scant00:09
cprofittyes, the GIMP one was small...00:09
cprofittdinda, or DougieRichardson any comments?00:10
cprofitt[TOPIC]  00:11
cprofittNeed for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.00:11
MootBotNew Topic:   00:11
cprofitt[TOPIC] Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.00:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.00:11
cprofittaccident CR there00:11
Vantraxo/00:11
cprofittgo ahead Vantrax00:11
Vantraxsorry for the delay, hazzards of being at work00:12
cprofittI know those well...00:12
cprofittok... on the topic of Instructors00:12
Vantraxjust saying hello, i have no idea whats going on yet:P00:13
cprofittI would like to have us get some people who are willing to do that...00:13
dindacprofitt: i see the license is NC00:13
cprofittto teach other teams, etc how to use moodle effectively00:13
cprofittdinda, it is...00:13
cprofitton two of the three I believe00:13
bodhi_zazenLOL00:13
cprofittdepending on what the group decides we may not want to hosts those00:14
cprofitthost00:14
dindausing Moodle is the easier part to teach, teaching them to build quality courses is another thing00:14
cprofittyes, building quality courses is a big step.00:14
cprofittI am still working on getting come curriculum writers interested in helping us00:14
Vantraxcan someone catch me up on what has already been covered?00:15
dindamechanics of using Moodle is pretty straight forward00:15
cprofittdinda, working with the teachers I do - I would disagree00:15
cprofittI have several educators that have found Moodle a bit of a struggle00:15
cprofittso I think having one course and a 'guide' to assist with just using the tools would be a good idea00:16
pleia2sorry I'm late00:16
bodhi_zazen+1 on intro to moodle00:16
cprofittno problem pleia2 we still need Doc for his topic00:16
bodhi_zazenit makes it more "user friendly", lol00:16
bodhi_zazencan be short00:16
cprofittany other thoughts on intro to Moodle course being necessary?00:16
cprofittI would like to add it officially to out 'to do' list00:16
dindaonly thing is, there are already existing courses/sites that teach Moodle so why do we need to import those courses here instead of just linking to them?00:17
bodhi_zazen+1 linky :)00:17
cprofittdinda, linking would be better... if you have the resource links please share them with us00:17
Vantraxi agree with that, id like to avoid reinventing the wheel00:18
dindacprofitt: the course material you imported - is that on a live site?00:18
cprofittthough if we have 'non-standard' modules we may need some material on those00:18
cprofittdinda, I think it is on a live site, but not sure if it is hosted as a course or just as a download00:18
cprofittI doubt there is a 'guide' (as in live person) attached to it00:18
cprofittthe details of 'how' we provide can be worked on later... do we agree we need to have some form of intro to using moodle -- be it pointed to or built?00:20
dinda+100:20
pleia2+100:20
cprofitt[VOTE] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle00:20
MootBotPlease vote on:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle.00:20
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:20
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:20
pleia2+100:20
cprofitt+100:20
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:20
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:20
dinda+100:20
MootBot+1 received from dinda. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:20
DougieRichardson+100:20
MootBot+1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:20
cprofittany more votes?00:21
* dinda waves to Dougie00:21
cprofittany more votes?00:21
* cprofitt using Robert's Rules00:21
DougieRichardsonhey dinda00:21
cprofittany more votes - last call00:21
cprofitt[ENDVOTE]00:21
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 400:21
bodhi_zazen\o/00:22
cprofitt[AGREED] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle00:22
MootBotAGREED received:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle00:22
cprofitt[TOPIC] Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?00:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?00:22
cprofittYou are up pleia200:22
pleia2ok, not much to say with this00:22
pleia2greg-g offered some assistance00:22
pleia2but I think if we remain at a stalemate licensing/legal-wise, we should contact SFLS00:23
cprofittpleia2, I think we should take them up on the offer... and should prepare a list of questions outside of IRC00:23
* pleia2 nods00:24
cprofittso that there is less 'argument' pre asking them for the advice00:24
cprofittdinda, what is involved in us getting that help?00:24
pleia2I don't want to hold things up if we actually can agree :) I expect SFLS might take a little while00:24
dindaalways good to have them in your back pocket, even if not used immediately00:24
dindaI just need the team mailing list address or should it just be sent to the project leads?00:24
bodhi_zazen+1 , I hope outside advice will make the issue less contentious00:24
cprofittleads would be better at this time I think...00:25
pleia2dinda: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning00:25
pleia2so ubuntu-learning@lists.ubuntu.com00:25
cprofittbut it is no skin off my nose either way00:25
Vantraxyeah, im thinking jsut the board00:25
Vantraxi havent actually made the list on the LP for the board00:25
pleia2oh00:25
dindaand something is eating all my mail from that list, so not sure what is up with that00:26
cprofittdo the board members think drafting questions ahead of time would be a good idea?00:26
pleia2yep00:26
Vantraxill give you the LP list for the board contact soon as i have it dinda00:26
cprofitt[VOTE] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time00:27
MootBotPlease vote on:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time.00:27
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:27
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:27
dindaokay, that will work00:27
cprofitt+100:27
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:27
pleia2+100:27
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:27
* dinda goes to resubscribe to the list00:27
bodhi_zazen+100:27
MootBot+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:27
DougieRichardson+100:27
MootBot+1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:27
dinda+100:27
MootBot+1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 500:27
Vantrax+100:28
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 600:28
cprofittany more votes?00:28
bodhi_zazenalthough I am not sure if each member needs a list, perhaps a discussion on mailing list would be better ?00:28
cprofittany more votes?00:28
Vantraxyes00:28
cprofittany more votes?00:28
Vantraxthat is a good idea bodhi00:28
cprofitt[ENDVOTE]00:28
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 600:28
cprofitt[AGREED] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time00:28
MootBotAGREED received:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time00:28
Vantraxbut i think we might be better keeping this one on the board list as opposed to the group list. Its going to be painful as it is00:28
cprofittI do not think we each need to send our own list, but I think we should all prepare a list ahead of time00:29
bodhi_zazen+100:29
bodhi_zazenI think mailing list makes it easier00:29
cprofitt[TOPIC] Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?00:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?00:29
cprofittyou are up again pleia200:29
bodhi_zazenI am OK with it so long as we have access00:29
pleia2I presume we would all find this acceptable?00:29
pleia2we hadn't really talked about it00:29
dindaI got a bunch of good info from our lead Sys Admin, James Troup, the infamous elmo00:30
bodhi_zazenwhich means me, unles someone else wants to sys admin00:30
dindaI can paste relevant bits in here00:30
cprofittthanks dinda00:30
Vantraxgo ahead dinda00:30
dindaFrom James:  I'm happy to host their server, in fact I'd really prefer to if it's going to be learn.ubuntu.com.  The issues around it are:00:30
cprofittthere are some pros that I can think of... the project would more smoothly be able to have a transition in leadership if Canonical hosted.00:30
dinda  1) them having root on the server00:30
dinda 2) them having admin access to moodle interface00:31
dinda 3) them having write access to the running moodle code00:31
dinda 4) what version of moodle they run00:31
dinda(1) would be very hard and may be a blocker if they're convinced they need it (but they don't.  No one else, forums or loco included have root.)00:31
dinda(2) is not a problem for me00:31
dinda(3) and (4) kind of combine.  We'd need them to run a stable/released version of moodle for security reasons.00:31
dindaEven assuming we get agreement on that, we'd really prefer not to do (3) but instead have the code be in a bzr tree that they can request us to pull their changes from after we've review them.  That's negotiable though.00:32
dindaHope that helps/makes sense.00:32
dindaend message00:32
cprofittit does make sense00:32
* DougieRichardson mumbles about the response time of the web team00:32
pleia2I've used bzr on the canonical servers before, the system works out nicely00:32
Vantraxdinda: there is one instance we do need scp access to be able to update the theme, its copied directly into a folder in the moodle directory00:32
dindaexactly dougie, tell us your experiences - might help00:32
pleia2for websites00:32
Vantraxso we would need scp or sftp access00:32
DougieRichardsonwell we deal with them for the wiki/front page00:33
Vantraxthere is no web admin for adding themes00:33
dindahow often would that need to be done?00:33
pleia2Vantrax: for both sites I work with on canonical severs, they gave me shell access00:33
DougieRichardsonthere was a google exploit bug reported last year - still not fixed00:33
Vantraxdinda: as often was we change  or update the theme, that would be quite alot in the first few months, then slowing down00:34
dindacould you get to a stable point then update before going live?00:35
DougieRichardsondinda: they don't tend to respond too quickly in general - perhaps not an issue for day to day admin but if there's a big problem, how do we guaruntee uptime00:35
cprofittwe could still have our test server... and then release to the hosted server I guess...00:35
bodhi_zazendinda: if we do not have root access, what kind of response time will we have if we need something on the site ?00:35
bodhi_zazensftp / scp access00:35
bodhi_zazenmoodle settings adjusted00:35
bodhi_zazenphp adjustments ?00:35
dindaDougieRichardson: that was one thing they specifically said -uptime would be better if they/Canonical hosted00:35
dindabodhi_zazen: honestly, no idea00:36
DougieRichardsondinda: not uptime, response time if root access needed00:36
dindait seems to depend on how nice you are to them, where you catch them in the release cycle, IRC00:36
pleia2bodhi_zazen: typically it's somewhat slow, but you can submit an RT ticket and follow up in IRC to get things done more quickly00:37
dindapleia2: what are your experiences?00:37
pleia2there is an IRC channel where they lurk, if you have an RT ticket number they tend to be helpful :)00:37
bodhi_zazenI would suggest it may be best if we keep the server we have until the site is set up, then transition ?00:37
dinda+100:37
Vantraxthats not a bad idea bodhi_zazen00:37
pleia2bodhi_zazen: yeah, plus we won't get learn.ubuntu.com until the project is running anyway :)00:37
cprofittbodhi_zazen, that would be a good plan00:38
dindapleia2: define "slow"  like a month?  weeks?  days?00:38
cprofittI still share your fear about issues and having them resolved00:38
pleia2dinda: if you *only* file an RT ticket, could be months00:38
bodhi_zazenI would like to see terms spelled out for something like this00:38
pleia2dinda: I can usually get things done in a week if I submit a ticket and followup a few days later00:38
bodhi_zazenIf i purchase a VPS, there is an agreement on access time00:38
bodhi_zazenit the response time is a week, the project will need to be more stable then it is now00:39
dindaI know the project may not be a priority at first but I guarantee if the forums goes down or needs something it gets attention b/c they have so many users00:39
bodhi_zazenand as we are using things such as openid, how would that work ?00:39
dindaso if the project takes off and visibility is high, then quicker service might be  there00:40
pleia2bodhi_zazen: the sysadmins tend to have to approve additional modules to core packages (like drupal), I am sure moodle would be no different00:40
bodhi_zazenSo those would be the disadvantages of hosting with Canonical then00:40
dindabodhi_zazen: is the OpenID module part of the packaged moodle d/l i the repositories?  or does it come from elsewhere?00:41
bodhi_zazenresponse time and Canonical would need to approve things such as openid and what not00:41
dindaI know we already have the module running on our own Moodle server00:41
pleia2welcome doctormo00:41
doctormoWhy am I always late00:41
bodhi_zazendinda: it comes from the moodle openid on Launchpad00:41
* doctormo hits his head against a brick wall00:41
cprofittwelcome doctormo00:41
* dinda hands doctormo a special watch that runs "fast"00:41
cprofittI think we would like to know more about how the hosting would work00:42
cprofittI would have to bow to bodhi_zazen for what we 'need' in terms of running the Moodle server00:42
cprofittas he has done that for us skillfully00:42
Vantraxcprofitt: +100:42
dindacprofitt: perhaps setting up a meeting with you and other project sys admins with elmo would be best?00:42
Vantraxwelcome doctormo00:42
cprofittI am not really a sysadmin in the project00:42
Vantraxthe admin side is mostly bodhi, with a little of me00:43
cprofittbodhi_zazen, has been the sole person responsible00:43
cprofittit would have to include bodhi_zazen00:43
bodhi_zazenlol00:43
cprofittI have added courses... but my admin has been all through the user interface or asking bodhi_zazen to raise upload limits00:43
doctormoDid we define roles yet?00:44
dindaupload limits - ugh, yes, had that issue as well00:44
cprofittbodhi_zazen, are you willing to discuss the issues with elmo for us?00:44
cprofittnot yet doctormo00:44
cprofittwaited for you to get here00:44
doctormoBecause I'd vote bodhi_zazen systems guy.00:44
dindabodhi_zazen: I'll introduce you to elmo via email and let you two chat via IRC then?00:44
doctormoThanks for waiting, I'm terribly sorry.00:44
cprofittbodhi_zazen, are you good with that?00:45
bodhi_zazenThat would be great dinda00:45
cprofitt[AGREED] bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting00:45
MootBotAGREED received:  bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting00:45
dindaelmo was on the CC until all the current memberships expired00:45
cprofitt[TOPIC] Licensing00:46
dindaand he's usually around freenode but located in London for time reference00:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Licensing00:46
bodhi_zazenit sounds as if in the long run we ill move to Canonical if we want learn.ubuntu.com ;)00:46
doctormocprofitt: add that as a task00:46
doctormobodhi_zazen: was it decided to use an alternative domain name?00:46
cprofittI would like to move that we table the license discussion until we know more about the hosting and have some contact with the SFLS00:46
bodhi_zazenno doctormo00:46
pleia2doctormo: we have to for a while, canonical wants to see quality courses being developed before they give us the l.u.c00:47
bodhi_zazenI think we are exploring the options and need more information to be honest00:47
doctormocprofitt: I would second with the addition that we put it as a task to contact the SFLS for advice.00:47
* cprofitt motions to table discussion on licensing until the hosting and SFLS have been contacted00:47
Vantraxi agree cprofitt00:47
bodhi_zazenis there a consensus on licensing ?00:47
cprofitt[VOTE] Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted00:48
MootBotPlease vote on:  Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted.00:48
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:48
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:48
cprofitt+100:48
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:48
doctormo+100:48
MootBot+1 received from doctormo. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:48
bodhi_zazen+000:48
MootBotAbstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 200:48
Vantrax+100:48
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 300:48
cprofittany more votes00:49
dindajust noting that Canonical has no official recommendation on the topic. . but elmo did offer some advice00:49
doctormodinda: about licensing?00:49
bodhi_zazenwhat was elmo's advice /00:49
dindaunder his ex-community council hat00:49
dindaquoting from elmo:  IMO (with my (ex-)community council hat on), they can't use CC-BY-SA-NC and be 'learn.ubuntu.com' or an official Ubuntu project - it's not a Free (as defined by Ubuntu) license.00:49
dindaI'd strongly recommend (we encourage them to/)they go with CC-BY-SA which is a Free license and the most appropriate for this sort of material.00:50
dindaend quote00:50
cprofittany more votes00:50
pleia2+100:50
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 400:50
dinda+100:50
MootBot+1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 500:50
cprofittany more votes00:50
doctormocprofitt: Can I get non commital show of hands for support for CC-BY-SA, and a different show of hands for NC avoidance?00:50
cprofitt[ENDVOTE]00:50
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 500:50
dinda+000:50
DougieRichardson+000:50
cprofittdoctormo, at this time no00:50
cprofittI would prefer to wait as we have decided until we have more information00:51
cprofittthat piece is important00:51
cprofittbut I think it is reasonable to wait until we have all the facts previously discussed00:51
cprofitt[TOPIC] Governance00:51
doctormocprofitt: I'm fairly certain that we know what we're doing, but I agree the SFLC should be contacted to be sure.00:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Governance00:51
cprofittnot sure how added that topic00:52
cprofittwho00:52
bodhi_zazenSounds like my topic ;)00:52
cprofittbodhi_zazen go ahead00:52
bodhi_zazenI would just like to suggest that we give some serious thought to team structure and governance00:53
cprofitt+1 bodhi_zazen00:53
bodhi_zazenfrom my experience with the BT , these can become problematic00:53
bodhi_zazenissues we have had on the BT -00:53
cprofittI would like to suggest that we build a draft page for people to place their ideas on how to improve the current structure00:53
bodhi_zazen1. people come and want to join the team.00:53
bodhi_zazeneveryone is happy, until said person starts acting out is some way or upsets people00:54
dindahow long are the terms of the current project leaders?00:54
bodhi_zazenso a process for joining team, and one for removing from the team as well00:54
cprofittwe set them as two years dinda00:54
Vantrax2 years, same as other councils00:54
bodhi_zazenthat too dinda00:54
cprofittbut that has not been 'published'00:54
bodhi_zazenWe need rules for things such as voting, simple majority, super majority ? etc, etc00:55
dindahow long do you set the regular members LP membership for?00:55
bodhi_zazenOn the BT I use 1 year00:55
bodhi_zazenI do not think that has been determined with this team00:56
cprofittbodhi_zazen, you are correct we have not done that00:56
=== nellery_ is now known as nellery
dindawas curious b/c I randomly decided for 1 year on the Texas Loco team00:56
cprofittwe formed the board - and the board needs to set those things in motion00:56
doctormoMy input here would be: we have to make sure that our governance doesn't follow the service orentated pattern of the BT too closely, I believe what we are doing here is more like the production/product team which should follow a more typical software project structure.00:56
dindafigured a year was long enough to see if they were going to hang around00:56
cprofittwould you agree that having us set a draft page would be a good idea?00:56
pleia2doctormo: +100:56
pleia2cprofitt: sounds good00:57
doctormocprofitt: Can the bot handle multiple options with instant runoff? :-D00:57
bodhi_zazenI am merely suggesting we put some structure in place00:57
cprofittbodhi_zazen, does making a draft page work or should we discuss in email?00:58
bodhi_zazendoctormo: would you like to start on that ?00:58
cprofittbodhi_zazen, I agree we need structure... but we have to start the conversation and IRC is likely not the best medium for that00:58
bodhi_zazenI do not have a strong opinion00:58
dindawould love to see that draft page, the Doc Team ran into some issues when no one knew or understood the process for joining various levels of teams/internal team projects00:58
doctormobodhi_zazen: +1, some structure, we have our council for decision making, that's a good start00:58
cprofittdoctormo, it does not allow multiple values00:58
cprofitt[VOTE] Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc00:59
MootBotPlease vote on:  Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc.00:59
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:59
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:59
cprofitt+100:59
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:59
pleia2+100:59
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:59
bodhi_zazen+100:59
MootBot+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:59
doctormo+100:59
MootBot+1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:59
dinda+100:59
MootBot+1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 500:59
doctormoI'll add my thoughts there then00:59
DougieRichardson_100:59
Vantrax+100:59
MootBot+1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 600:59
DougieRichardson+100:59
MootBot+1 received from DougieRichardson. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 700:59
cprofittany more votes00:59
cprofittany more votes00:59
cprofittlast call for votes00:59
cprofitt[ENDVOTE]01:00
MootBotFinal result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 701:00
cprofitt[AGREED] Draft page to be created for structure01:00
MootBotAGREED received:  Draft page to be created for structure01:00
cprofittVantrax, can you make the page?01:00
Vantraxer yeah, later today, im mad busy at work atm01:00
VantraxIm stuck doing AD migration testing till this afternoon01:01
cprofittAD migration... fun01:01
cprofittI did that years ago...01:01
cprofittI can make the shell then...01:01
cprofittthank you for attending that is the end of our time...01:03
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cprofitt#endmeeting01:03
MootBotMeeting finished at 19:03.01:03
cprofitt#ubuntu-learning for more please01:03
dindathanks all!01:04
DougieRichardsonbye all01:04
cprofittnight DougieRichardson01:04
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=== thekorn is now known as _thekorn
=== _thekorn is now known as thekorn
=== ShadowChild is now known as lukjad007
* persia peers about10:55
* andrew_46 also peers about....10:56
* talsemgeest wishes andrew_46 luck in this channel as well10:57
luisbghello10:57
luisbghow do I request a slot to have a meeting in this channel?10:57
luisbg(an Ubuntu Studio team meeting)10:57
persialuisbg, Just invite the calendar to an empty slot.10:57
persiaSee http://fridge.ubuntu.com/events10:58
luisbgthrough Google Calendar?10:58
luisbgpersia, you mean http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar :P10:58
persiaRight.  But the URL changed: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar10:58
persiadirections at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar10:58
luisbgcool10:58
luisbgthanks10:58
luisbgbrb (doing that)10:59
persiaNo, I meant events.  My memory lags behind system changes.10:59
* persia laments a missing amachu, and wonders if anyone else wants to lead.11:01
TheMusoDo we have enough people present?11:01
* popey wonders what meeting is on now11:02
amachuHi11:02
amachupersia: elky: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi11:02
TheMusoHi amachu.11:02
elkyoh. hi!11:02
TheMusoLooks like we only have one membership applicant this week.11:02
persiapopey, Asia/Oceania11:03
popeyoh, not in the calendar :S11:03
andrew_46That would be me11:03
amachuTheMuso: yes11:03
persiaamachu, Could you sort out the calendar for next time?11:03
amachupersia: sure11:03
persiaamachu, Thank you.11:04
amachuso elky & lifeless are you people there?11:04
elkyhi still.11:04
amachuelky: yep.. got you11:04
amachulifeless: ??11:04
lifelesshai11:04
persiaThat's all of us then11:05
lifeless#start11:05
lifeless#meeting start11:05
persiait's startmeeting11:05
amachulifeless: yes11:05
lifeless#startmeeting11:05
MootBotMeeting started at 05:05. The chair is lifeless.11:05
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]11:05
amachuandrew_46: Welcome11:05
andrew_46amachu: Thanks11:06
luisbghello TheMuso11:06
luisbghello popey11:06
amachugo ahead describing yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu11:06
* luisbg waves11:06
andrew_46My name is Andrew Strong from the Blue Mountains, Australia. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/andrew.46. I am a Registered Nurse, Bachelor of Arts student and Linux enthusiast.11:06
persialuisbg, best after the meeting11:06
andrew_46I have been with Ubuntu since Dapper Drake and my major contribution to Ubuntu has been the writing and support of many tutorials over several years on the Ubuntu Forums. Several have been awarded 'Tutorial of the Week' by Forum's staff, details are on my wiki.11:06
andrew_46I have also more recently become a keen member of the Beginners Team (BT) under bodhi.zazen where I work predominately providing support both on irc and the Ubuntu Forums for beginners to Ubuntu. Some members of the BT have been good enough to provide some very generous testimonials on my wiki, others are here to support my application. That's my 3+ lines :-).11:06
persiaandrew_46, Have you worked at all with the doc team?11:07
andrew_46persia: I have not as yet, but I wold like to11:07
persiaHow about with your local team, or is it all forums and IRC?11:08
andrew_46I am a memebr of the Ausralian team but it is a little quiet11:08
andrew_46So for the most part forums an irc11:08
lifeless+111:10
TheMusoandrew_46: Why have you focused on the command-line with your tutorials?11:11
andrew_46TheMuso: That is where my strength is and it is also an area that many need the most guidance11:11
TheMusoGreat!11:12
elkyandrew_46, what parts of irc do you help with?11:12
andrew_46I work on #ubuntu, helping out with what I can11:12
andrew_46I would be keen to work on other channels11:13
andrew_46but the greatest need seems to be focussed on that one particular channel11:14
lifelessits a hotspot11:14
TheMusoMy goodness, you manage with that firehose? :)11:14
elkyandrew_46, there is a localised help channel which could always use more people.11:14
amachuandrew_46: have you joined hands with Aussie community  and have particiapted in events it conducts etc., (I read you are a Nurse in ICU, but still...)11:14
lifelessamachu: the blue mountains are waaay out of the way11:15
andrew_46amachu: I am a member of the Australian chapter but it is mostly mailing list support at the moment11:15
amachulifeless: his locality you mean?11:15
lifelessyes11:15
lifelessgotta remember australia is insanely huge11:15
andrew_46lifeless: To tell the truth tSydney is 90 minutes by train :-)11:16
amachuandrew_46: are there more people from your place?11:16
* TheMuso waves from Wentworth Falls. :)11:16
* lifeless from epping11:16
andrew_46amachu: TheMuso appears to be 20 minutes from me :-)11:16
andrew_46I actually did not realise so many so close :-)11:17
* TheMuso will be back in Sydney by the end of the year hopefully.11:17
elkyandrew_46, do you irc under other nicknames?11:17
elkyTheMuso, you said that last year :P11:18
andrew_46elky: No, always as andrew_4611:18
TheMusoelky: Yeah but its more realistic this year. :)11:18
amachuyou have contributing for quite sometime, infact few years.. and any reason for not having applied so far?11:18
andrew_46or 4711:18
elkyandrew_46, ah, so you've really only been active in #ubuntu the past fortnight or so?11:18
amachuandrew_46: how do you think Ubuntu membership, help you in your future activities?11:18
andrew_46elky: I suspect much longer than that? Do the logs prove me wrong?11:19
andrew_46amachu: It would be an indication of my commitment to Ubuntu for the long term11:20
elkyandrew_46, yeah, i can only find 20 or so lines of communication in there for your current nick for the past 2 years11:20
elkymost on the 19th of this month11:20
andrew_46elky: My apologies then I have obviously made a major error11:20
TheMusoIs there anybody here willing to speak for andrew_46's contributions to the community?11:21
Bodsdao/11:21
leoquantI support andrew for ubuntu membership11:22
Ash_Ras do i11:22
BodsdaI fully support his application11:22
elkyBodsda, you being bodhi.zazen?11:23
lukjad007This is for andrew_46?11:23
Bodsdaelky: no11:23
lukjad007Sorry, I was afk11:23
amachuBodsda: leoquant: about yourself..11:23
elkyah, similar enough name, sorry11:23
TuxPurpleBodsda, +111:23
Bodsdaelky: no worries, happens all the time :)11:24
Bodsdaamachu: about ourselves?11:24
andrew_46elky: bodhi.zazen has left a testimonial on my wiki11:24
amachuyep.. looking at wiki now11:24
elkyBodsda, how do you know the applicant ;)11:24
elkyandrew_46, yes, hence the confusion11:24
lukjad007I too support the application of andrew_46 for membership.11:25
Bodsdaoh right, I know andrew_46 from the Ubuntu Beginners Team, and from his reputation on UF11:25
leoquanti know andrew from his great howto's11:25
Bodsda+1 leoquant11:25
persialukjad007, TuxPurple could you also share why you wish to support the applicant?11:25
Ash_Ri also support the application11:26
persiaAsh_R, You as well :(11:26
Bodsda:)11:26
persias/:(/:)/11:26
* persia curses this silly keyboard layout11:26
lukjad007I know andrew_46 for his great disposition. He is always helpful, and does his best to help anyone who needs it. I find that he is always ready to help. Most importantly, he always is upbeat, at least whenever I am around :)11:27
talsemgeestOops, missed my cue. I to support andrew_46 in his application11:27
persiatalsemgeest, why?11:28
Ash_Ri know andrew_46 both from ubuntu forums and ubuntu beginners teams.  his simple howto guides have provided help to so many.  as a member of the beginners team he is always willing to help when he can.11:28
amachuam at +.5 now..11:28
Ash_Rhe has shown long standing commitment to ubuntu and open source as a whole11:28
amachuexpecting little more, for a +111:28
talsemgeestpersia: Because I know andrew_46 has contributed so much of his time and effort to the ubuntu community, and has helped me out considerably with my various projects11:29
elkyamachu, i'm also +0.511:29
amachuandrew_46: has done a good work.11:29
lukjad007His Howtos are very good, and have gotten me through a few complex problems.11:29
lifelessso thats +2 so far11:29
Joeb454I'd also give a +1 for andrew_4611:29
TuxPurpleI know andrew_46 through ubuntu beginners team where he is famous for using slrn and ofcourse his ubuntuforums tutorial11:29
BodsdaI would not be here using irssi if it was not for his guide11:29
lukjad007And, on other occasions it has made my life a LOT easier11:30
elkyi'd like to see cooperation with the doc team. they really dont bite much11:30
Joeb454he's consistantly helpful, good natured, and generally a nice guy. If you need help, he'll do his best to get you sorted :)11:30
andrew_46elky: I agree, I should approach them11:30
amachuelky: what you mentioned or some local activity would made it through my mind11:30
lukjad007The reason it took me so long to add this last bit was because andrew_46 changed his avatar11:30
lukjad007So I thought the people who helped me were to different people :)11:31
lukjad007*two11:31
persiaOK.  I think that's enough expressions of support.11:31
amachupersia: TheMuso: comments?11:31
* Bodsda gives one last GO andrew_46 !!11:31
andrew_46Thanks guys :-)11:31
lukjad007GO andrew_46!11:31
leoquantgo!11:32
* lukjad007 becomes quiet now.11:32
* Bodsda shuts up11:32
TheMusoOk, I think I am +0.5. Can't put a finger on why, probably not working with as many teams, i.e the doc team or the loco team channels to help with support.11:32
persiaI'd really like to see a higher hit count for the nick in #ubuntu, or some work with the doc team.11:32
lifelesstotal of 311:32
persiaThe forums stuff is *great*, and there's a lot of support from others, including a number of current Members, but I just don't think it's complete.11:32
amachulifeless: i don't think we can sum up half counts ;-)11:33
lifelessso I'm at +1 as I said earlier11:33
persiaI'm voting 0 for mostly mathematical reasons.11:33
lifelessbecause of the forums stuff mainly11:33
lifelesswhich I think shows sustained, significant contributions11:33
persiaandrew_46, I think you've done great, but I think you've a bit more to go on the significant side.  You've sustained down pat, and obviously lots of support from others.11:33
lifelessI agree there are deeper integration with teams possible, but I don't think that that is a prerequisite11:34
lifelessand I think we're making a mistake as a board if we start saying 'and team membership' :)11:34
andrew_46persia: Thanks for your comments11:34
persiaI don't think team membership matters at all.  I'm just not convinced that work in the forums is very discoverable to those outside the forums.11:35
lifelesspersia: does it have to be? the forums are _huge_11:35
lifelessand googlable11:35
persiaHrm.  That's a good question, and perhaps enough to change my mind.11:35
* persia investigates the forums a bit more11:36
elkypersia, exactly. which is why i'd love to see him touch base with the docs team11:36
Bodsdathere have been questions put to forum staff before as to why forum contributions are not recognized as 'ubuntu contributions' I think the main response is usually 'it should be though'11:36
* Bodsda tries to find the thread11:37
persiaBodsda, forum contributions are recognised as contributions, even by me.11:37
elkyBodsda, they are, but howtos on the forums have a limited audience11:37
mc44so does irc11:37
lifelesselky: why do you say that elky ?11:37
Bodsdapersia: elky: Ok, well -- i wont look for the thread then :)11:37
lifelessI find google on the forums is much faster than the online help we ship11:37
amachuBodsda: I would say it is, but at times not enough to make good judgements11:37
elkylifeless, they're not peer reviewable, or if they are you end up with multiple versions often contradicting, often out of date. these dont make it into the official help areas where they're clearly needed if they were required in the first place11:38
Bodsdaamachu: I agree it needs to be 'significant' and shouldnt be the only conntribution, but as you can see, andrew contributes elsewhere as well... just my 2 pennies11:38
elkylifeless, one can link to a howto from a forum really easy. why one needs to lock a howto into a one-person-editable situation is beyond me.11:38
lifelesselky: pragmatically, the forums are more editable than help.ubuntu.com11:39
amachuBodsda: I agree, he is too close..11:39
lifelesselky: its a different *idiom*, but actually very effective.11:39
Bodsdaamachu: too close? He has always been an incredibly invaluable member on irc to the ubuntu-beginners team.11:40
leoquanti am most active on the dutch/belgium forum with over 10.000 posts but i was able to discover his work/howto's.....(on the ubuntuforums) and they were most helpful11:40
TheMusoSo have we all voted, or are things still up in the air?11:40
elkylifeless, i find the forums less editable. i cant for instance fix something i see wrong in those posts. my correction must go through the OP who is more or less a gatekeeper, who may or may not maintain the post.11:40
leoquantso his contributions are visible11:40
persiaBodsda, You'll do better just to wait, as we debate ourselves.11:40
lifelesspersia is considering11:40
amachuwell, should we take up this as +1 from lifeless & others feeling something more is needed?11:40
elkyamachu, yep.11:40
Bodsdapersia: sorry, was just repsonding... il keep quiet now :)11:41
persiaI don't like it, but I've  become convinced the thing I don't like is forums policy, rather than anything else.11:41
lifelesspersia: so your vote is ?11:41
persiaThe work is definitely sustained, and significant *within* the forums (don't have useful links to beginners team stuff, but that started in the forums)11:41
persiaI'll vote for membership.u11:42
amachupersia: so a +1 from you11:42
lifelesselky: I think you're effectively punishing contributions made via the forums because you prefer a different style of work.11:42
elkylifeless, no. the contributions in the forum is why he got +0.5.11:42
amachupersia: am I right?11:42
amachuand TheMuso?11:43
TheMusoI said +0.5 before, and I am still undecided as to whether I will change my mind, so I'll probably stick to +0.5 as well.11:43
persiaI'm punishing contributions to the forums because I think they aren't discoverable, not because I want a different style of work.11:43
lifelesselky: you're saying you consider guide written in the forums less worthy of being 'significant' than guides written for e.g. help.ubuntu.com or the shipped docs11:43
lifelessI think everyone has settled on their votes now11:44
lifeless2 +1's, the rest 0.5, AIUI11:44
elkylifeless, i said i prefer them ont in the forums. not that i'm punishing him for them being there11:44
elkylifeless, his dishonesty about irc is what lost him the other 0.5.11:44
lifelesselky: kk11:44
andrew_46elky: I apologise again, I am not sure what is happening there11:45
persialifeless, That summary matches my understanding.11:45
amachuI don't think we could sum up .5 ;-)11:45
amachuit +2 out of five present11:45
Joeb454well technically if the other 3 gave 0.5 that's 3.5/511:46
Joeb454;)11:46
lifelessamachu: a 0.5 that isn't summable is 0. We should either not allow 0.5, or sum them.11:46
persiaJoeb454, Well, kinda, but kinda not.11:46
elkyamachu, 3. lifeless and persia went +1 iirc.11:46
Joeb454persia: I'm just kidding, I know you can't have a 0.5, it wouldn't work11:46
amachuelky: lifeless & persia?11:46
lifelesselky: lifeless + persia = 2. themuso, amachu, elky @ 0.5 each would me another 1.5 :P11:46
persiaWhich is enough.11:47
amachulifeless: we should take it up that way?11:47
elkylifeless, yes, i was taking in the 'rounding down'11:47
lifelesselky: ah right - good point11:47
amachu;-)11:47
elkylifeless, or at least that's how i read it11:47
lifelessamachu: I don't have a view, other than it should be consistent. Either we should stop saying 0.5 completely, or we should sum the 0.5's and round the total down11:48
amachumay be I raise my + 0.5 to +1, since elky and Muso also recognises the contribution..11:48
Bodsdayay11:48
elkylifeless, if the .5 takes it over the required threshhold, why round?11:48
amachuand these is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed11:48
elkylifeless, i say call it as it is, really11:48
amachuand there is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed11:49
lifelesselky: 0.5 would allow exact ties, which the odd number of board members doesn't permit otherwise11:49
lifelesselky: but sure, that would be fine with me too11:49
amachuI raise my .5 to +111:49
elkylifeless, if it came to that, the .511:50
elkylifeless, if it came to that, the .5'ers would decide if they really meant .511:50
lifelesssure11:50
lifelesslike I say, it would be fine with me too11:50
TheMusoOk, so where do we stand?11:50
amachuelky: I wouldn't recommend a .5 to be considered and summed up, It has to be +111:51
persiaI think we should permit 0.5s, to indicate a positive inclination, without being sure.11:51
TheMusopersia: Agreed.11:51
persiaI'd not like to see us all vote that way, but I think it's useful.11:51
popeyThe EMEA team uses +0 to do that persia11:51
lifelessthree +1 votes, two 0.5s11:51
popeyas opposed to -011:51
persiapopey, Interesting idea.  We usually use -1, 0, 0.5, and 111:51
lifelessI prefer +0 as positive inclination. Its less confusing than a 0.5 that doesn't mean 0.5.11:51
popeyI don't think we have ever used 0.511:51
elkypersia, same11:51
persiaShall we do that moving forward, and use +0, -0 ?11:52
* TheMuso only uses 0.5 because oterhs do. I thought it was +0 originally11:52
TheMusoFine by me11:52
lifelessaye11:52
amachufine. then I welcome andrew_46 :-)11:52
amachuit that fine?11:52
TheMusoYeah11:52
andrew_46amachu: Thank you!11:52
andrew_46Thanks all11:53
Ash_Rcongratulations andrew_4611:53
persiaIt's what we voted.11:53
lukjad007Congrats andrew_46!11:53
amachuandrew_46: but would like to see more as we had felt..11:53
leoquantcongrats andrew11:53
Bodsdaw00t, go andrew_46 !!!11:53
talsemgeestCongratulations andrew_46!!!11:53
andrew_46Thanks all the BT here :-)11:53
popeyThe luxury of one hour for one membership application :)11:53
amachuand our best wishes..11:53
lifeless#stopmeeting11:53
andrew_46amachu: thanks you11:53
lifeless#stop11:53
TheMusoendmeeting11:53
popey#endmeeting iirc11:53
TuxPurplecongrats andrew_46 :)11:53
lifeless#endmeeting11:54
MootBotMeeting finished at 05:54.11:54
TheMusopopey: Yeah, I always hope that such meetings are short, but they never are.11:54
lifelessthe opposite of start, is stop. Sheesh.11:54
popey:)11:54
TheMusoThanks folks, gotta run.11:54
popeylifeless: I think they accept patches ;)11:54
lifelesspopey: sure, I'll put it on the queue.11:54
lifeless:)11:54
popey:)11:54
amachuis that all?11:54
lifelessamachu: I think so; themuso just /parted11:55
amachuany else for any one to raise?11:55
amachuanything else for any one to raise?11:55
amachupersia: elky: ?11:55
elkynope11:55
persiaI still want to see a decision on adding more people.11:55
persia5 is far too small.11:55
amachupersia: yes11:56
amachui have been asking for people to reply on list11:56
amachuelky: lifeless: could you please do that?11:56
persiaUnderstood, but I don't think we've reached consensus, except that we didn't want to debate it here without the candidate present.11:56
lifelessamachu: do what?11:57
amachulifeless: on adding new members to board11:57
persiaOr rather, on taking a decision on the pending nominees.11:57
amachupersia: yes11:57
lifelessI don't think I knew any of them11:57
lifelessso I can't comment11:57
popeyYou guys are taking on more members of the membership board?11:58
lifelesspopey: we're spread over a very wide time interval11:58
persiapopey, Yes.  We're at 5 members.  We're authorised to be at 9 by the CC.11:58
lifelesspopey: its 9pm for me now, and it gets worse in summer11:58
amachulifeless: there is one nomination from persia.11:58
popeyUnderstandable11:58
persiaamachu, There were two nominations last I looked.11:59
amachuon list?11:59
persiaon list11:59
* persia double-checks11:59
lifelessI don't know Zheng11:59
amachupersia: on list?11:59
lifelessamachu: will you be doing minutes?11:59
amachulifeless: you can assess, going through the wiki etc.,11:59
amachulifeless: on the list?12:00
lifelessamachu: yes12:01
lifelessI see both candidates12:01
lifelessI will do more reading this week12:01
amachui will do it. but please make it a point to reply12:01
amachuI will add it to agena next time.. and we will take it up..12:02
amachuit will help the meeting to be conducted once in a week again12:02
amachuelky: lifeless: persia: will that be fine12:02
persiaI don't think we want to return to that until we can reach 8-9 members12:02
amachupersia: yes12:03
persiaBut I'd be happy to conclude discussions on the nominees sooner.12:03
amachusure, I will post minutes to the list, and lets make it a point to give our feedback12:03
amachupersia: will that be fine12:04
persiaamachu, fine by me.12:04
amachuelky: ?12:04
amachuand with you lifeless?12:05
lifeless? sorry, whats the question12:05
amachulifeless: that i make minutes of meeting and we decide it soon on new nominations12:08
lifelessyes please and sure (both already agreed to above :P)12:08
amachuok12:09
amachuThank you every one for participating12:09
persiaNext meeting 7th July?12:11
ajmitch9 members on the board would make voting & discussion interesting12:11
amachuour next meeting will be on 14 July 0912:11
elkyamachu, ack on list stuff.12:11
persiaajmitch, If we reach that point, we plan to have 2 6-member meetings, at 9:00 and 15:00 UTC.12:11
amachuelky:  thank you12:11
persiaamachu, OK.  Thanks for the clarification.12:11
ajmitchpersia: that sounds reasonable12:12
ajmitchnot that I should need to be attending anytime soon12:12
persiaajmitch, The issue is that by the time amachu finishes the workday, you're probably thinking you ought to have been in bed (and the moreso in your Summer)12:12
=== WelshDragon is now known as YDdraigGoch
=== olujicz_ is now known as olujicz
=== ejat is now known as e-jat
* mathiaz waves15:59
sommero//15:59
Spike1506\o16:00
* stgraber waves16:01
ttx_\o/16:01
alex_muntadao/16:01
mathiazlet's get the Ubuntu Server team meeting started16:01
dendrobateso/16:01
mathiaz#startmeeting16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
mathiazToday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:02
mathiazLast week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2009061616:02
zulheyllo16:02
mathiaz[TOPIC] DRBD16:02
MootBotNew Topic:  DRBD16:02
mathiazI think I saw ivoks email about using dkms for drbd16:02
nijabao/16:03
mathiazI don't remember if there was any reply16:03
zulon the kernel list there was, they are fine with it moving to dkms16:03
mathiazright - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006067.html16:04
mathiazok: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006121.html16:04
mathiaz^^ so it seems that ivoks is working on a dkms version of drbd16:05
mathiazanything else to report on the DRBD front16:05
mathiaz?16:05
* RoAkSoAx says hello16:05
zulnot that I know of16:05
mathiazivoks isn't around so he can't give an update on his packaging work16:06
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms16:06
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms16:06
mathiaz[TOPIC] Hadoop packaging16:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Hadoop packaging16:06
mathiazttx_: ^^16:06
ttx_o/16:07
mathiazttx_: did you have sometime to look at the hadoop packages?16:07
ttx_Yes. Let me gather my notes16:07
ttx_Looking at their source package, the main issue is that it builds hadoop from source but source contains binary JARs16:08
ttx_(that are used at compile-time and then copied to the binary packages)16:08
ttx_In order to be debian-compliant those JARs first need to be packaged separately, and then hadoop must properly build-depend and runtime-depend on them.16:08
ttx_that's a classic issue with java libraries. usually they build from "source and other binary jars"16:08
ttx_There are a few other minor issues with the packaging16:09
mathiazttx_: is there a process to fix this "classic" issue?16:09
ttx_Like a cloudera-specific patchsystem, Hard dependency on sun-java6-*16:09
ttx_mathiaz: yes, package and package again16:09
ttx_mathiaz: Basically you map all the missing deps and start pumping out packages16:10
mathiazttx_: do you have list of jars that should be packaged separatly?16:10
mathiazttx_: do you have a list of these missing deps?16:10
ttx_jets3t kfs xmlenc JavaXMLBuilder16:10
ttx_also they want commons-cli 2.0 -> we have 1.116:11
ttx_so that needs to be doublechecked for compat16:11
ttx_if not compatible, add commons-cli-2.0 to the mix16:11
mathiazttx_: ok - so the first step to move things forward would be to package these libraries16:11
ttx_note that the dependency analysis was made from Hadoop project16:11
ttx_while the packaging issues were done by looking at Cloudera packaging16:12
ttx_and Hadoop-Cloudera might bring some other deps16:12
ttx_since it's Hadoop++16:12
mathiazttx_: what's the license of the cloudera packaging bits?16:12
mathiazttx_: what's the license of the Hadoop-Cloudera?16:12
ttx_I think it's ASL-2, let me doublecheck16:13
ttx_Hard to tell from the packaging, patch is simply shipped as uuencode in debian/16:14
ttx_yes, ASL-216:14
mathiazttx_: and the rest of the debian/ content is covered by ASL-2?16:14
ttx_"This distribution is Copyright 2009, Cloudera, Inc. and is licensed under16:15
ttx_the Apache 2.0 License as above. See http://cloudera.com/distribution"16:15
mathiazttx_: ok - so that means the packaging work could be based on cloudera packages.16:15
ttx_mathiaz: sure. It might even be done in collaboration with Cloudera16:15
mathiazttx_: could you write down your notes in a wiki page (is there a spec?) and flush out the first steps to be taken to move things forward?16:16
ttx_mathiaz: I fear I won't have time to drive this. But I can shove my notes in a wikipage16:16
mathiazttx_: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-hadoop16:16
mathiazttx_: sure - your notes are enough16:16
ttx_ok, action me on tis16:17
mathiazttx_: if someone wants to help out, they will know where to start16:17
ttx_this, even16:17
mathiaz[ACTION] ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page16:17
MootBotACTION received:  ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page16:17
mathiazAnything else related hadoop?16:18
ttx_nothing from me16:18
mathiazgreat - let's move on  then16:19
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
mathiaz[TOPIC] Merges16:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Merges16:20
mathiazWe're still merging packages from Debian16:20
mathiazhttps://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html16:20
mathiaz^^ shows 68 outstanding merges as of now16:20
mathiazwhile https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html lists 144 outsanding merges16:21
mathiazso there is still some work to be done on that front16:21
mathiazhelp is welcome16:21
mjeansonI could give a hand, if there is something specific to be done16:22
mathiazmjeanson: I usually publish a list of easy-merges to be done16:22
mathiazmjeanson: on the ServerTeam roadmap16:22
jmdaultmathiaz: I'd like to help on Asterisk, but I'm new to ServerTeam16:22
mathiazhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap16:22
alex_muntadaI think that vsftpd and amavisd-new have been already merged16:22
stgraberjmdault as done a package of the latest stable release of asterisk (!= 1.6) using dkms16:23
alex_muntadaasterisk is still pending, AFAICS16:23
stgraberit's currently in our PPA16:23
mathiazalex_muntada: if so, feel free to update the wiki page16:23
jmdaultI'm not sure about the best Asterisk version though16:23
stgraberthat could be adapted to 1.6 I guess if we want to ship 1.616:23
jmdaultThe official "stable" Asterisk version is 1.416:24
mathiazwhat's the current version of asterisk in debian?16:24
jmdaultDebian has 1.4.21 version (OLD!)16:24
stgraber1.6 recently reached unstable16:24
jmdaultand 1.6.1 (unstable)16:24
mathiazok - so we're interested in the version in unstable16:24
mathiazwhat's the difference between unstable and the PPA version?16:24
jmdaultAnd Debian Asterisk 1.6 has no support for MySQL, mp3, oh323...16:25
stgraberthe PPA is the latest stable release (1.4), unstable has asterisk's next release 1.616:25
jmdaultmathiaz: the PPA version is an updated version of the stable release16:25
jmdaultI also packaged the Asterisk Gui16:25
jmdaultand made DKMS modules for the drivers (instead of debian's module-assistant)16:26
jmdaultIt's made to help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration16:27
mathiazjmdault: ok - are you in touch with the Debian maintainer team?16:28
mathiazjmdault: what's their position on using dkms?16:28
jmdaultmathiaz: no, as I said, I'm a fairly new Ubuntu adept16:29
mathiazalso what's the time frame for upstream 1.6 release? Does it make sense to try to target 1.6 for karmic?16:29
jmdaultI'm an ex Mandriva developer btw ;-)16:29
stgraberjmdault: you should probably contact the Debian VOIP team and see why they chose 1.6 instead of going stable16:29
ttx_jmdault: we love ex-Mandriva developers.16:29
mathiazjmdault: great - we've all started somewhere.16:29
ttx_we love all French.16:30
mathiazjmdault: we're here to help you out16:30
jmdaultstgraber: yes, I was planning to to that. I have two asterisk servers to install this week, however ;-)16:30
jmdaultI'll contact Debian VoIP team, and Digium as well, to know their plans16:31
mathiazjmdault: ok - so to move thing forward, the question is which version makes most sense for karmic16:31
mathiazjmdault: 1.6 (unstable) or 1.4?16:31
mathiazjmdault: you don't need to give an answer now16:31
mathiazjmdault: we've got until FeatureFreeze to decide16:32
jmdaultmathiaz: good16:32
mathiazjmdault: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule16:32
mathiazjmdault: August 17th16:32
mathiazjmdault: August *27th*16:32
mathiazjmdault: the sooner the better though - especially for such a big piece of code16:33
jmdaultmathiaz: yes, I'll do that ASAP16:33
mathiazjmdault: you may also have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration16:33
jmdaultIt's not such a big piece of code16:33
mathiazjmdault: as it seems to be a rather old spec and may not be up-to-date16:33
jmdaultthe DAHDI interface works with 1.4 or 1.616:33
jmdaultthe gui, voice prompts as well16:34
stgrabergot to go now, though mjeanson- has IRC on his cell :)16:34
mathiazjmdault: you may have some other idea on improving the state of asterisk in ubuntu (and debian)16:34
jmdaultmathiaz: is Fabian nearby?16:34
mathiazjmdault: could you report back next week on which version of asterisk should be in karmic?16:34
jmdaultYes, I report the version next week16:35
mathiaz[ACTION] jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic16:35
MootBotACTION received:  jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic16:35
mathiazjmdault: great - thanks16:35
mathiazanything else on the topic of asterisk?16:35
jmdaultone issue16:36
jmdaultbinary drivers16:36
jmdaultthe dfsg version removes code for the echo canceller16:36
jmdaultthe driver, at build time, contacts digium to download a firmware16:36
jmdaultthe "build time" here, is either module-assistant, or dkms16:37
mathiazjmdault: interesting. we'll have to look into that.16:38
jmdaultAbsolutely no proprietary code will be shipped in the .debs16:38
mathiazjmdault: could you follow up on the ubuntu-server@ ml?16:38
jmdaultwill do16:38
mathiazjmdault: great - thanks16:38
mathiazlet's move on16:38
jmdaultgreat16:38
mathiazanything else related to last week minutes?16:39
mathiaznope - let's move on then16:41
mathiaz[TOPIC] Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd16:41
MootBotNew Topic:  Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd16:41
mathiaznijaba: ^^?16:41
nijabaMotd currently displays 7 lines of legal warning that takes up usefull space.16:41
nijabaIt is beleived that displaying this information is only16:41
nijabanecessary once per admin user.16:41
nijabaThis could be done by only displaying this if there is no ~/.legal_seen file and add it once displayed.16:41
nijabaKirkland has already implemented it, we are waiting for legal to approve the change.16:42
nijabaGiven the reclaimed extra space, and in order to provide visibility to new or important features in Ubuntu Server Edition, we could add an ubuntu-tips package, installed by default, that would randomly display 2 lines of text at the end of the motd coming from a list of tips placed in a given directory.16:42
nijabaexamples:16:42
nijabaTo learn more about Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud go to:16:42
nijabahttp://www.ubuntu.com/cloud16:42
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud16:42
nijabaDid you know that you can get useful notifications displayed at the16:42
nijababottom of the terminal by using the byobu package?16:42
nijabaThese tips would be defined and reviewed by the community, on a wiki page16:43
nijabaWhat would you think of this?16:43
* sommer +116:43
alex_muntada+116:44
zul-116:44
ttx_-116:44
mathiaznijaba: like a fortune in the motd?16:44
mathiazzul: ttx_: why?16:44
zulso it would be like clippy for linux?16:44
nijabamathiaz: that's the idea, yes16:44
nijabazul: huh, no, since it would be only displayed once, at login, in a very non obtrusive fashion16:45
ttx_1/ I'm all for recovering that space, but not to waste it again. 2/ I expect difficulties on finding tiops that make sense for everyone16:45
ttx_but as always, I can be convinced otherwise :)16:45
mathiaznijaba already gave two examples of tips16:46
ttx_I just anticipate flamefests on tip contents16:46
zuli think you would get complaints like those of landscape16:46
mathiazttx_: would these two be ok for you?16:46
ttx_for not a lot to gain16:46
nijabattx_: I think yo anticipate too much :)16:46
sommerwould you be able to disable the tips?16:47
mathiazzul: true - the complain about landscape were about the commercial aspect of it16:47
ttx_What would be the guidelines to make a good tip ? Community approval on said wikipage ?16:47
nijabattx_: the issue we are trying to solve: inform users of what's new in the ubuntu while we know most do not read release notes16:47
zulbesides i dont think anyone would look at it either16:47
mathiazttx_: sounds like a good plan16:47
* nijaba agrees16:47
kirklandi vote +0, i wouldn't mind an ubuntu-tips package that added tips to the motd, but until we see the contents of this tips database, i don't think it should be in the default server install16:47
mathiazanother source of tip could be something similar to the package of day16:47
kirklandhowever, seeing the contents of ubuntu-tips, the quality and relevance, etc, i think this could become a good thing16:48
ttx_I tend to agree with kirkland here16:48
mathiazright - what would be the minimum number of tips availble before we move on?16:48
* nijaba propose to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners. I'll send the url to the ml and ask for other input16:48
zuli just dont see what you gain from it though16:49
nijabazul: visibility of new features that have been brought in16:49
mathiaznijaba: seems like a first step in the direction16:49
kirklandnijaba: i suggest you throw it into a bzr tree, and a small package, put it in your ppa16:49
alex_muntadathere is already fortunes-debian-hints which may contain some useful tips16:50
mathiazzul: let's see what kind of tips are found and we can discuss the relevant of including them once we'got them16:50
zulmathiaz: fine with me.16:50
ttx_maybe I'm a little too careful :)16:51
mathiazalex_muntada: good suggestions16:51
mathiaznijaba: could you start a wiki page?16:51
nijabamathiaz: sure16:51
mathiaz[ACTION] nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.16:51
MootBotACTION received:  nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.16:51
mathiaznijaba: and send the url to the ubuntu-server@ ?16:52
nijabamathiaz: will do16:52
mathiaz[ACTION] nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input16:52
MootBotACTION received:  nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input16:52
dendrobatesmy two cents: we are trying to produce a enterprise level product.16:52
mathiazanything else on this subject?16:52
dendrobatesand this feels consumer-like.16:52
dendrobatesmost people using ubuntu server are sys admins and will not want this feature.16:53
dendrobatesbut, it might be useful to some.16:53
mathiazdendrobates: may be - so we should make sure it's easy to disable it16:54
dendrobatesno, we should make it optional to begin with.16:54
dendrobateswhy annoy the many to help the few.16:54
mathiazI think we should first come up with the list of tips and we can discuss then the best to integrate it afterwards16:54
mathiazall right - let's move on16:55
mathiazas we're running out of time16:55
mathiazI'll skip the open discussion item16:56
mathiazand jump straight to the last item (most important)16:56
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time16:56
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time16:56
mathiaznext week, same place, same time?16:56
sommersure16:57
alex_muntadaok16:57
jmdaultok16:57
zulmaybe16:57
zuli mean yes16:57
ttx_wfm16:57
mathiazok - great - thanks all for attending16:58
mathiazgo wild on the last round of merges16:58
mathiazand see you all on #ubuntu-server or next week, same time, same place16:58
mathiaz#endmeeting16:58
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:58.16:58
sommerlater all17:00
* manjo waves17:58
bjfo/17:58
* cooloney stands up17:59
* lieb looks about17:59
* smb looks at his watch17:59
* ogasawara waves17:59
* apw enters stage left18:00
smbOk, seems like time to begin18:00
smb#startmeeting18:00
MootBotMeeting started at 12:00. The chair is smb.18:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:00
smb[TOPIC] Open Action Items18:00
smb* rtg confer with the platform team about how to upgrade from Jaunty18:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Action Items18:00
* jjohansen waves18:00
rtg_smb: I think its done. I've uploaded thenew flavours18:01
smbok18:01
smb* rtg confer with the installer team about choosing the right i386 kernel18:01
rtg_done as well18:01
smb* ogasawara to look at /staging drivers in hwdb18:01
ogasawarasmb: done, email sent to kernel-team ml.  but action me with getting the hwdb script pushed to buildscripts.git.  I first need to check with abel if the new api is available.18:01
rtg_final details may be pending, depends on CD space18:01
smbI think that was done as well18:01
smbAnd finally18:02
smb* rtg and apw kernel boot msg cleanup18:02
rtg_in progress18:02
rtg_or rather, no progress18:02
smbOk, so I'll keep that on the list18:02
smbOn next to my dump18:02
apwyeah we need to put a plan together for that, not had a chance18:03
smb[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others18:03
smb* Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, in process)18:03
smb* Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, in process)18:03
smb            2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[18] with 0/11 verifications!18:03
smb            LRM 2.6.24.18-24.1 (proposed) [18] with 1/1 verifications. OK18:03
smb* Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, in process)18:03
smb            2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[18] 3/24 verifications!18:03
smb            LBM 2.6.27-14.17 (proposed)[8] with 1/2 verifications18:03
smb            LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[18] with 2/2 verifications. OK18:03
smb* Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, in process)18:03
smb            No proposed package pending.18:03
apw[ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo18:03
smbCurrently Hardy and Intrepid are a bit of a problem as not too much testing/verifications get in18:03
smb[ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo18:04
MootBotACTION received:  ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo18:04
smbapw,  :-P18:04
apwnasty bot18:04
smb[TOPIC] Karmic Status18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Karmic Status18:04
manjosmb, will there be a new ISO cut for jaunty server edition ?18:04
smbUsually for non-LTS there are no new ISOs. I am not sure server is different18:05
apwkarmic is still waiting on the .31-rc1 release when the merge window is closed.  updates for the flavours and some config stuff has gone in and been released18:05
rtg_Karmic - new i386 flavours generic-pae in last upload. dropped i386 server.18:05
smbslangasek, rtg_ Is that true?18:05
rtg_smb: AFAIK18:05
smbOk18:06
rtg_i.e., no new CDs for non-LTS releases18:06
=== Claudinux1 is now known as Claudinux
manjortg_, we might have to rethink server editions18:06
manjocoz of new HW enable-ment18:06
apwon the KMS stuff the GEM/PAE issues appear resolved, with the changes merged already to mainline18:06
amitkmanjo: and even for LTS they are at pre-defined a milestone intervals (8.04.1, 8.04.2, etc.)18:07
rtg_manjo: its just a matter of timing18:07
manjok18:07
apwmost things otherwise seem to be progressing18:07
slangaseksmb: there will not be a new ISO for jaunty server; this SRU would be of benefit to netboot only18:07
rtg_smb: I think thats all the important stuff for Karmic18:08
smbrtg_, Ok thanks18:08
slangaseki.e., yes, non-LTS releases don't get new ISOs18:08
smbslangasek, Thanks too for the clarification18:08
smbslangasek, I guess if there are special needs you would be the authority to ask?18:08
rtg_slangasek is our special needs guy :)18:09
manjoslangasek, especially if the install does not work18:09
manjoslangasek, due to missing drivers etc18:09
smbmanjo, But I guess you should put that offline18:09
smb[TOPIC] ARM Tree18:10
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Tree18:10
manjook18:10
bjfStill working on babbage 1 patches. I've asked for help from Amit.18:10
bjfDon't have a feel, right now, when the babbage 1 changes will be finished but that's all I'm working on18:10
bjfGiven the pain to go to .30, am worried about the pain to go to .3118:10
apwwhere are they coming from?18:10
amitkfreescale18:10
apwsorry what level are they rebasing from18:10
amitkfor 2.6.2818:11
amitk*from18:11
amitkjaunty kernel18:11
smbSeems to be it?18:12
bjfi'm done18:12
apwmuch of the delta for .31 will arrive next week when the merge window closes18:12
amitkdone here18:12
smbProbably for the next topic there is also not that much18:12
smb[TOPIC] Netbook Trees18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Netbook Trees18:12
apwi saw some stuff go out at the end of last week.  some fixes cking pushed18:13
apwthe patch review was nearly done i think but not yet complete18:13
apwthats all i know18:13
smbOk, the rest will wait till next week18:13
ckingnot much activity this week on that18:13
smb[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs18:13
smb* Regressions18:13
awewait...18:13
awei have a netbook question...18:13
smbawe, ok, shoot18:14
awethe new netbook branch was created for jaunty...18:14
aweyet we're thinking karmic will be used18:14
aweinstead...18:14
aweis there an eta for a netbook branch for karmic?18:14
apwyes, we made it then you said it was likely you might use karmic18:14
rtg_awe: so, we'll likely do the same for karmic18:14
apwthe last thing we were told there was no patches needed on karmic?18:15
aweok18:15
apwbut if you have them then we would do the same there, it'd be quicker this time now its done one18:15
apwonce18:15
aweright now true18:15
aweie. we have no patches currently18:15
rtg_awe: besides, we should wait until karmic settles before having to start the rebase treadmill18:15
awertg_: ok18:16
awethen maybe we should do at least 1 rel on the jaunty netbook branch?18:16
apwawe sounds liek we should take this offline and figure out what you need18:16
aweapw: ok18:17
ckingI'd say so.18:17
apwsmb, action us18:17
smb[ACTION] apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty18:17
MootBotACTION received:  apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty18:17
apwta18:17
awecool.  thanks18:17
ogasawarasmb:  back to regressions, I added 2 regression-release and 2 regression-potential bugs to the list this week.  As usual, you and apw have them assigned.18:17
smbOk, so ogasawara I guess you... do :)18:17
ogasawaratoday's bug day stats are as follows:18:18
smbOk, yep. So18:18
smb* Bug Day Report18:18
ogasawaraBug Day Stats - Kernel Devs18:18
ogasawaraFix Released    4 (↑4)18:18
ogasawaraFix Committed   0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraWon't Fix   30 (↑30)18:18
ogasawaraInvalid 1 (↑1)18:18
ogasawaraReassigned  0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraIn Progress 2 (↑2)18:18
ogasawaraIncomplete  194 (↓29)18:18
ogasawaraTriaged 26 (↓4)18:18
ogasawaraConfirmed   21 (↓1)18:18
ogasawaraNew 22 (↓3)18:18
ogasawaraBug Day Stats - Community18:18
ogasawaraFix Released    0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraFix Committed   0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraWon't Fix   0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraInvalid 1 (↑1)18:18
ogasawaraReassigned  0 (↑0)18:18
ogasawaraIn Progress 1 (↑1)18:18
ogasawaraIncomplete  2 (↑2)18:19
ogasawaraTriaged 46 (↓4)18:19
ogasawaraConfirmed   0 (↑0)18:19
ogasawaraNew 0 (↑0)18:19
smbOk, thanks for the update18:19
apwa bit early to have anything interesting on the bug day18:19
ogasawaraapw: yup, but a good start so far18:19
smbYeah, I likely will get to it rather tomorrow18:20
apwi think thats likely for a number of people as we have travellers and busy people18:20
bjfno-one should be surprised but I'm not doing bug day until the babbage changes are done18:20
smbUnderstandable18:21
manjoogasawara, how is the community responds to bug day ?18:21
ckingand I'm snowed by other panic work today18:21
ogasawaramanjo: andres still is contributing each time18:21
smbThanks Andres18:21
ogasawaramanjo: unfortunately we haven't been able to gather more18:21
apwwe need a plan on how to get more community involvement in triage etc18:21
apwogasawara, how is the arsenal working out, is it deployed fully yet?18:22
ogasawaraapw: almost, still tweaking the processing of new bugs - I keep hitting corner cases18:22
apwwhen are we expecting to call it 'ready'?18:23
ogasawaraapw: hoping by next week, I want to send an email when it's running18:23
cooloneyapw, i plan to advise this bug day event in our Chinese kernel mail list and some LUG mail list18:23
manjoogasawara, you think we can get jono's help in getting a word out to the community ?18:23
apwcooloney, sounds good18:23
cooloneyi set some bugs to "won't fix" before I left home18:24
ogasawaramanjo: yes, I'll make a note to send them an email18:24
ogasawarasmb: maybe action me for sending email to community team18:24
* jono looks up :)18:24
smb[ACTION] ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help18:25
MootBotACTION received:  ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help18:25
jonoI will wait for the mail :)18:25
jonohappy to help!18:25
apw:)18:25
smb:)18:25
manjojono u rock man18:25
jonomanjo, no, you rock :)18:25
cooloneythanks jono18:25
jononp :)18:26
smbOk, before we rock the place. More for that?18:26
cooloneyguys, can we talk about android tree here?18:26
smb[TOPIC] Open Discussion18:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion18:26
smbcooloney, Yep18:26
cooloneysmb, coolio18:27
cooloneyas you know, i sent out an android tree email18:27
cooloneyanybody has comments?18:27
apwi think your basic plan sounded reasonable18:28
apwmore detail than that is probabally something for a more focused forum18:28
apwas a general comment the work going on for allowing newer kernels no older18:29
apwreleases should give you a lot of what you need to allow more than one kernel type to exist18:29
manjoI hear that google will not endorse andriod for netbooks... anyone hear this rumor ?18:30
cooloneyapw, i will setup a tree firstly and add debian directory as bjf said18:30
cooloneymanjo, no idea about that.18:30
apwyep sounds reasonable, i have done some of that for the mainline builds, so i can help out there18:30
smbOk, guess the rest can be done offline18:31
smbAnything else for open discussion?18:31
cooloneyapw, thanks, i plan to do it soon, so will need you guys help later18:31
* smb looks at the silence18:32
manjosmb, u chairing next meeting ?18:32
smb[TOPIC] Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)18:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)18:32
smbI guess you just volunteered...18:32
* manjo looks around to see who is "you"18:33
smbmanjo, The only one standing :)18:33
bjfI have no problem doing it18:33
* apw calls that a plan18:33
smbbjf, Ok, thanks18:33
smbSo bjf will be next chair18:34
smbthanks all18:34
bjfl8r18:34
smb#endmeeting18:34
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:34.18:34
=== fader is now known as fader|lunch
=== fader|lunch is now known as fader
=== olujicz_ is now known as olujicz
* greg-g yawns22:53
* boredandblogging throws cold water on greg-g22:54
czajkowskiaww did you wake him22:54
czajkowski:p22:54
greg-ghey now, no hazing the new members!22:55
nhandlerBefore the meeting begins, I would like to congratulate the new members of the Americas Regional Membership Board22:56
beuno:)22:56
greg-gthank you nhandler22:56
kikoheh22:57
boredandblogginghello22:57
bratscheHi.22:58
zehriquehi, there!22:58
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
pleia2ok folks, meeting time :)23:00
kikoyay23:00
bratsche:)23:00
pleia2kiko: you're up! intorduce yourself, give links to your pages :)23:00
kikohello there23:01
kikoI'm kiko23:01
kikoI run the Launchpad project for Canonical23:01
kikoI am also an occasional contributor to Ubuntu -- both in QA, in working with upstream and in fixing some minor bugs23:01
kikolet me dig up some links to allow people to review me23:02
kikoor people can ask me questions while I paste23:02
NafalloI've heard of this guy named kiko...23:02
bratscheheh23:02
nhandlerWhile he is doing that, I would like to say that kiko has been very helpful with all Launchpad related issues that people in the community have had. He has also helped implement several of the ideas that have come from the community.23:02
pleia2kiko: future plans?23:02
kikomost of my contributing is indirectly through Launchpad23:02
ajmitchNafallo: funnily enough, so have I :)23:03
jpdsI recall meeting him three times... +1 from me!23:03
kikobut I have been to multiple UDS sessions and discussed features and their execution plans23:03
kikohttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syncropated/+bug/20035723:03
ubottuUbuntu bug 200357 in syncropated "syncropated crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Undecided,Fix released]23:03
kikohttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/20840523:03
ubottuUbuntu bug 208405 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] iscan" [Wishlist,In progress]23:03
kikohttps://launchpad.net/~kiko23:03
nhandlerkiko: Any plans to go the MOTU route in the future?23:04
kikonhandler, I wish I had enough time to work on any /launchpad/ code, let alone Ubuntu code23:04
kikoif that situation ever changes23:04
kikothen yeah, I'd definitely like it23:04
greg-gkiko: just for the record, how long have you been involved with Launchpad?23:04
kikogreg-g, I joined the team in January 200523:05
effie_jayxalright, ready to vote23:05
boredandblogging+123:05
greg-g+1 for me for the continued commitment to the project and obvious contributions made in the past.23:06
kikoI'll be around this community for a long time still23:06
pleia2+1 excellent work kiko :)23:06
beuno+1 - I've seen kiko do a lot of work to improve Ubuntu through Launchpad, through writing How To's, and participating in UDS discussions23:06
kikoCanonical or none23:06
Nafallokiko: was there even a launchpad before you? ;-)23:06
Technoviking+1 here23:06
pedro_+1 from here23:06
effie_jayx+123:06
zehrique+123:06
kikoNafallo, heh, there was actually -- but not publically visible apart from Rosetta and some of the Code imports stuff23:06
beunoand kiko can add himself to the ~ubuntumembers team  :p23:07
pleia2kiko: congrats! welcome :)23:07
greg-gbeuno: :)23:07
pedro_lol23:07
effie_jayxkiko: it's about time23:07
kikoheh23:07
kikothanks :)23:07
greg-gwelcome, kiko23:07
Nafalloyay! finally kiko can have kiko@ubuntu.com! :-D23:07
nhandlerCongratulations kiko !23:07
kikowooo23:07
kikothanks guys23:07
zehriquecongratulations, kiko!23:07
bratschewoot!23:07
kikoI can't believe I made it! and at midnight of my first day of vacation23:07
pleia2:)23:08
bratschehaha23:08
kikoheh23:08
bratscheNow your vacation begins. :)23:08
beunokiko, enjoy your vacation23:08
Nafallokiko: so those sets of flipflops we talked about... ;-)23:08
pleia2zehrique: you're up :)23:08
ajmitchkiko: well done :)23:08
kikowoo!23:08
pleia2zehrique: you about?23:09
pleia2ok, we'll move on the the next23:09
zehriqueWell, wiki page is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenriquePMachado23:09
pleia2oh hey :)23:10
zehriqueMy profile on launchpad is at: https://edge.launchpad.net/~zehrique23:10
* nixternal is here23:10
pleia2zehrique: can you give us a quick introduction?23:11
zehriqueIf you notice, my karma has decreased because of that implementation done this year. But I'm still contributing with translations.23:11
zehriqueI make part of the team of translators/reviewers for pt_BR on Ubuntu23:12
zehriqueWhen I have free time, I use to give support on the #ubuntu-br channel, here on freenode.23:12
zehriqueI am a GNOME translator into the pt_BR since may/2008 and got a reviewer level since january/2009.23:12
zehriqueI am official translator for LXDE Desktop Environment and admin of the main project site and wiki. I'm moderator for the Portuguese section of the LXDE Forum too.23:12
pleia2wow, great :)23:13
zehriqueWas invited to make part of Lubuntu team.23:13
pleia2zehrique: how long have you been working with Ubuntu? (I see you started using it with 5.04)23:14
zehriqueYes! I've been working with it since 6.06 version. But contributing since 8.04 version.23:15
greg-gzehrique: I assume part of your future plans is to continue with translations, but do you see yourself changing focus in the future?23:15
beunozehrique, what do you feel you still want to accomplish?23:16
zehriqueWell, now I'm working with Webdevelopment. If in the near future I could help in this area, I'll be very glad to help.23:17
* nixternal has love now, I see 'kubuntu-docs' translations \o/23:17
nixternalwow, you are an all around translator it seems, not just GNOME and LXDE...awesome!23:17
zehriqueWell, I am in love with translations. :P23:18
zehriqueBut coding is one of my plans too.23:19
beunozehrique, how involved are you in your LoCo team?23:19
nixternalI can see :)  that is awesome and a part of the reason that *buntu rocks like it does...all I can say there is "Thank You"23:19
nixternalI have a soft spot in my heart for translators :)23:19
zehriqueThanks, nixternal23:19
greg-gzehrique: do you have any ideas of how the translation process could be improved? (note: I don't have any experience in that area)23:19
zehriqueWell, I think that the process is good and by now I think it may not be changed.23:20
greg-gzehrique: ok, I was just curious. :) thanks23:20
* kiko waves -- gotta skip out for the night23:20
pleia2excellent translations work, zehrique :) +123:21
beuno+1 here as well. Translations rock Ubuntu.23:21
greg-g+123:21
Technoviking+123:21
zehriqueThanks23:21
nixternal+123:22
nhandlerCongratulations zehrique !23:22
bratschewoot, congrats zehrique!23:22
zehriqueWoooah! Thanks, guys! :)23:22
zehriqueI' so proud of being a member of Ubuntu Community!23:22
beunowho's next?   kdub?23:23
kdubhello everyone :)23:23
beunokdub, hold on a sec23:24
beunowe need one more vote  :)23:24
zehriqueok23:24
nixternallooks like we have quorum anyways, we can probably move on23:24
pedro_+1 from here too , congrats zehrique23:25
pleia2congrats zehrique :)23:25
greg-gok, now we can move on to kdub :)23:25
kdubalright, cool23:26
kdubso i'm kdub/ Kevin DuBois23:26
kdubwiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinDuBois23:26
kdubi'm a coder/blogger23:26
kdubi've contributed to compiz, ffmpeg, a bit to vlc23:26
kdubi'm currently working a lot with ffmpeg for the summer of code23:27
zehriquegood23:27
kdubbut i'm also easily distracted, and have a lot of little projects like http://kdubois.net/?p=40823:28
beunokdub, you have an impressive list of contributions to open source projects23:28
kdubor http://kdubois.net/?p=31923:28
beunocould you tell us a little but about the ubuntu-specific things you've done?23:28
kdubthanks beuno23:28
kdubwell, i can package things23:29
pedro_kdub: any plans on becoming part of the MOTU team?23:29
kduband i've given a speech to a group in michigan about ubuntu before23:29
kdubpedro_: i currently have more interest in the kernel team, actually23:29
boredandbloggingkdub: active in the LoCo?23:30
kdubi chat in the irc room a fair amount23:31
greg-gI can verify that ;)23:31
kdubthanks greg-g :P23:32
greg-gkdub: I really like all of your upstream work, it definitely helps make the floss world better23:33
beunokdub, what do you plan to work on in the future?23:33
nixternaljcastro or any other michigan freakz in here for some testimonials?23:33
kdubi really hope to move into kernel work, or deeper X server work23:33
beunokdub, so you're keen on continuing to do upstream work?23:34
boredandbloggingready to vote?23:35
kdubbeuno: yes, and i usually package things my stable things to distribute them23:35
pleia2kdub: I think you're certainly on the right track, but I'd really like to see you excel in some of the more Ubuntu-specific work that you have planned :)23:36
beunoso, I'm +0. It's hard to vote, because of all the awesome work kdub's done, but I think he still needs to do some more work in Ubuntu, maybe packaging or working with the Ubuntu kernel team23:36
boredandbloggingagree with pleia2, good work upstream, but more Ubuntu related work would be good23:37
greg-gkdub: I agree with pleia2, you definitely are making great contributions to FLOSS, but adding in more Ubuntu stuff would be great. +0 but I want to see you back here at the end of the summer! :)23:37
greg-gthere is a +0 hidden above from me23:37
pleia2same +023:38
nixternalI would like to see more bug work due to the development background, but from having known kdub for a bit and working with him during packaging, and knowing his personality, I will give a +123:38
pedro_it's same opinion here, I'd love to see more involvement on the Ubuntu community and I'm looking forward for your work on the kernel team but for now +023:38
Technoviking+0 for me also23:39
nixternalkdub: doesn't look like you will make this time around, but dude I will work with you and so will the michigan folks to get you there...cool?23:39
kdubwell, thanks nixternal , sounds good23:39
nixternalgroovy dude23:39
pleia2mdeslaur: you're up!23:39
mdeslauroh, cool :)23:39
bratschekdub: If you're interested in getting involved in some development tasks in Ubuntu, check out the "Death by 100 Papercuts" project.. it would be great to have someone of your expertise hacking in there.23:39
mdeslaurHi everyone, I'm Marc Deslauriers23:40
nixternalbratsche: great point! thanks!23:40
mdeslaurI am a member of the Ubuntu Security team. My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers23:40
mdeslauryes, I am a Canonical employee :P23:40
* ajmitch has a great appreciation for those who get those security fixes out to us :)23:41
mdeslaurSo, if you're running Ubuntu, a third of the security updates from packages in main are from me.23:41
boredandbloggingnice23:41
nhandlerI can vouch for that based on the emails I have been receiving regarding the security updates23:41
Nafallomdeslaur: wow. I didn't realise you were that strict with regards to who does what :-)23:42
pleia2indeed, fantastic work mdeslaur :)23:42
nixternalmdeslaur: what about Xubuntu and/or Kubuntu security stuff? I take it you cover that as well?23:42
mdeslaurnixternal: yes23:42
mdeslauralso, I started doing some proactive security work also23:42
nixternalgroovy! so now I don't have to bother kees all of the time :p23:42
nixternalon the Kubuntu side that is23:42
mdeslaurnixternal: hehe :)23:42
ajmitchI'm guessing that you just work in main & leave security in universe to people like nixternal?23:43
nixternalbad idea23:43
mdeslaurI am currently adding a new config option to the aide package to filter out false alerts from package and security updates from the daily email reports23:43
mdeslaurI actively work on updates in main, but I sponsor people who submit debdiffs for packages in universe23:43
nixternalmdeslaur: MOTU or Core Dev in the future?23:44
mdeslaurnixternal: both, hopefully23:44
nixternalif so, what are you waiting for? :p23:44
mdeslaurnixternal: just going through the proper way of doing things23:45
nixternalunderstandable...we need to let it be known that you don't need to be an Ubuntu Member to go for MOTU or Ubuntu Universe Contributor, as it is given to you upon getting either previous classification :)23:45
ajmitchit is possible to just go straight to core dev23:45
boredandbloggingmdeslaur: are you active in a LoCo?23:46
nixternalajmitch: shush! we need some universe love dude23:46
ajmitchnixternal: sorry23:46
mdeslaurboredandblogging: I attend the local release parties, but don't participate in organizing them23:46
beunomdeslaur, how long have you been using Ubuntu?23:46
mdeslaursince edgy23:47
mdeslaursorry23:47
mdeslaurnot edgy23:47
mdeslaurbefore dapper23:47
mdeslaurbreezy!23:47
mdeslaurthat's what I was trying to remember :)23:47
nixternallol23:47
pleia2hehe23:47
beunowell, you had me at hello.  +1 for all the awesome security work23:47
nelleryhehe23:47
ajmitchjust a newcomer then :)23:47
nixternalbeuno: !@)*#)@* GHAHAHAH23:47
pleia2awesome work mdeslaur, thanks for those security alerts! +123:48
boredandblogging+123:48
greg-g+1 and thanks for keeping me secure! :)23:48
nixternal+1 from me, want to see a Kubuntu security report first thing after this meeting :p23:48
Technoviking+1, great security work,23:48
mdeslaurhehe, thanks guys23:48
nhandlerCongrats mdeslaur23:48
pleia2welcome mdeslaur :)23:48
mdeslaurcool :)23:48
Nafallocongrats mdeslaur :-)23:48
pleia2BryanLBasil: you're up23:48
BryanLBasilGreat.23:48
ajmitchkees: about 30 seconds too late to cheer on mdeslaur :)23:49
mdeslaurhehehe23:49
keescongratz mdeslaur !23:49
kees:)23:49
mdeslaur:)23:49
BryanLBasilMy name is Bryan Basil, and I am a translator and "customer support representative" as I like to call it for the Ubuntu project.23:50
BryanLBasil:-)23:50
BryanLBasilI do a lot more, like HowTos, and advocacy projects.23:50
BryanLBasilI also like to create Ubuntu artwork.23:50
BryanLBasilMy wiki page is here: wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan23:50
BryanLBasilSorry, I'll give it to you in link format.  D'oh.23:50
BryanLBasilhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan23:50
BryanLBasilEven though I've only been active for about 3 months, my karma on Launchpad has exceeded 9000.23:51
BryanLBasilhttp://launchpad.net/~bryanlbasil23:51
BryanLBasilThere are tons of links on my wiki page, so if you want to see more, and can't find it on there, just ask me here.23:51
nixternalBryanLBasil: what have you done for SchoolTool? I jsut ran across that on LP23:52
BryanLBasilTranslating.23:52
nixternal3 months active and you have that much work already documented?23:52
nixternalserious?23:52
beunoBryanLBasil, I see you do spanish translations. Have you thought about applying as an official translator?23:52
BryanLBasilbeuno: I am currently in the review process.23:53
BryanLBasilIf you look on the official Spanish Translators page, I am under "pending".23:53
BryanLBasilnixternal: :-)23:53
BryanLBasilI understand I am at a disadvantage,23:54
nixternalwhoa, you have only been on LP for just over a month....you have a really nice karma rating for answers, your forums stats are pimp, your artwork is groovy, your howtos are good....so my next questions is....do you have a life at all? :P23:54
BryanLBasilbecause of how short my time has been, but I believe that so far I have been really active.23:54
pleia2BryanLBasil: I see a lot of explaining what the teams do in your app, but not specifically what you've done for teams like the Georgia LoCo and the Marketing team, can you expand a bit?23:54
beunoBryanLBasil, I see some translations which don't follow the agreed terminology for the spanish group23:54
BryanLBasilThere's a lot to respond to, can we take a second and answer these really quickly before any more are asked?23:55
pleia2of course :)23:55
BryanLBasil:-)23:55
BryanLBasilnixternal: Thanks a lot... :P23:55
TechnovikingBryanLBasil: sustained work is one of the key elements for Ubuntu Membership, and only 3 months concerns me.23:56
=== zehrique_ is now known as zehrique
BryanLBasilpleia2: For the Georgia LoCo, the mailing list has been pretty dead, but I have spoken with JonReagan (president) and Nick Ali about working with them on projects like the Atlanta Linux Fest.23:56
TechnovikingBryanLBasil: What do you have plan in the long term23:57
BryanLBasilbeuno: Yes, this has been brought up to me by the president of the team.23:57
beunoBryanLBasil, great work in the Launchpad answer tracker23:57
BryanLBasilTechnoviking: I understand your concern, and am hoping that my work is enough in itself and can prove my commitment.23:57
BryanLBasilTechnoviking: Roadmap is all I want to plan out so far, only tackling realistic things.23:58
BryanLBasilIf I wrote too many things,23:58
BryanLBasilit would sound fantastical, and things people might look forward to23:58
BryanLBasilwould drop before they started.23:58
BryanLBasilI plan on making my roadmap come true, and soon.23:58
BryanLBasilbeuno: Thanks a lot. :-)23:58
beunoBryanLBasil, I think you're off to an amazing start. If you keep this up solid 6 months, I think you'll fly right through. But 3 months is too little, so -1 from me today23:59

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