[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: you going to run the meeting ?
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> you do it so well
[00:00] <cprofitt> Ok...
[00:01] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[00:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is cprofitt.
[00:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:01] <cprofitt> Welcome to the UCLP meeting
[00:01] <cprofitt> please say present if you are here and attending
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> present :)
[00:02] <cprofitt> please say present if you are here and attending
[00:02] <dinda> present
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> welcome dinda ;)
[00:02] <cprofitt> welcome DougieRichardson
[00:03] <cprofitt> I am giving doc a bit of time to get in here as the first topic is again his
[00:03] <DougieRichardson> hey all
[00:03] <cprofitt> and pleia has the next two...
[00:03] <cprofitt> if they are not here soon we can skip to my topics which are rather light
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> I have some small issues while we wait if you wish
[00:04] <cprofitt> sure
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> I brought up a test server here :
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
[00:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> we can use it any way we wish, although I have not set up openid
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> ssh access is available, to upload files
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> so if people need it for something, just point them in my direction
[00:06] <cprofitt> any more bodhi_zazen or should I start with my topics?
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen>  /end side track
[00:06] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.
[00:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.
[00:07] <cprofitt> [LINK] http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
[00:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
[00:07] <cprofitt> there are two other courses I have uploaded
[00:07] <cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=5
[00:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=5
[00:07] <cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
[00:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
[00:07] <cprofitt> I am curious what people thought of the structure of those courses
[00:07] <cprofitt> they were 'found' by me, but not created by me.
[00:08] <cprofitt> any comments at all or should we move on?
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> I liked the structure of http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> the one on OOO looked good, did not look at all of it
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> the one on gimp / inkscape was a bit scant
[00:09] <cprofitt> yes, the GIMP one was small...
[00:10] <cprofitt> dinda, or DougieRichardson any comments?
[00:11] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]  	
[00:11] <cprofitt> Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
[00:11] <MootBot> New Topic:   	
[00:11] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
[00:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
[00:11] <cprofitt> accident CR there
[00:11] <Vantrax> o/
[00:11] <cprofitt> go ahead Vantrax
[00:12] <Vantrax> sorry for the delay, hazzards of being at work
[00:12] <cprofitt> I know those well...
[00:12] <cprofitt> ok... on the topic of Instructors
[00:13] <Vantrax> just saying hello, i have no idea whats going on yet:P
[00:13] <cprofitt> I would like to have us get some people who are willing to do that...
[00:13] <dinda> cprofitt: i see the license is NC
[00:13] <cprofitt> to teach other teams, etc how to use moodle effectively
[00:13] <cprofitt> dinda, it is...
[00:13] <cprofitt> on two of the three I believe
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> LOL
[00:14] <cprofitt> depending on what the group decides we may not want to hosts those
[00:14] <cprofitt> host
[00:14] <dinda> using Moodle is the easier part to teach, teaching them to build quality courses is another thing
[00:14] <cprofitt> yes, building quality courses is a big step.
[00:14] <cprofitt> I am still working on getting come curriculum writers interested in helping us
[00:15] <Vantrax> can someone catch me up on what has already been covered?
[00:15] <dinda> mechanics of using Moodle is pretty straight forward
[00:15] <cprofitt> dinda, working with the teachers I do - I would disagree
[00:15] <cprofitt> I have several educators that have found Moodle a bit of a struggle
[00:16] <cprofitt> so I think having one course and a 'guide' to assist with just using the tools would be a good idea
[00:16] <pleia2> sorry I'm late
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> +1 on intro to moodle
[00:16] <cprofitt> no problem pleia2 we still need Doc for his topic
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> it makes it more "user friendly", lol
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> can be short
[00:16] <cprofitt> any other thoughts on intro to Moodle course being necessary?
[00:16] <cprofitt> I would like to add it officially to out 'to do' list
[00:17] <dinda> only thing is, there are already existing courses/sites that teach Moodle so why do we need to import those courses here instead of just linking to them?
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> +1 linky :)
[00:17] <cprofitt> dinda, linking would be better... if you have the resource links please share them with us
[00:18] <Vantrax> i agree with that, id like to avoid reinventing the wheel
[00:18] <dinda> cprofitt: the course material you imported - is that on a live site?
[00:18] <cprofitt> though if we have 'non-standard' modules we may need some material on those
[00:18] <cprofitt> dinda, I think it is on a live site, but not sure if it is hosted as a course or just as a download
[00:18] <cprofitt> I doubt there is a 'guide' (as in live person) attached to it
[00:20] <cprofitt> the details of 'how' we provide can be worked on later... do we agree we need to have some form of intro to using moodle -- be it pointed to or built?
[00:20] <dinda> +1
[00:20] <pleia2> +1
[00:20] <cprofitt> [VOTE] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
[00:20] <MootBot> Please vote on:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle.
[00:20] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:20] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:20] <pleia2> +1
[00:20] <cprofitt> +1
[00:20] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:20] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:20] <dinda> +1
[00:20] <MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:20] <DougieRichardson> +1
[00:20] <MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:21] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:21]  * dinda waves to Dougie
[00:21] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:21]  * cprofitt using Robert's Rules
[00:21] <DougieRichardson> hey dinda
[00:21] <cprofitt> any more votes - last call
[00:21] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:21] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> \o/
[00:22] <cprofitt> [AGREED] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
[00:22] <MootBot> AGREED received:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
[00:22] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?
[00:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?
[00:22] <cprofitt> You are up pleia2
[00:22] <pleia2> ok, not much to say with this
[00:22] <pleia2> greg-g offered some assistance
[00:23] <pleia2> but I think if we remain at a stalemate licensing/legal-wise, we should contact SFLS
[00:23] <cprofitt> pleia2, I think we should take them up on the offer... and should prepare a list of questions outside of IRC
[00:24]  * pleia2 nods
[00:24] <cprofitt> so that there is less 'argument' pre asking them for the advice
[00:24] <cprofitt> dinda, what is involved in us getting that help?
[00:24] <pleia2> I don't want to hold things up if we actually can agree :) I expect SFLS might take a little while
[00:24] <dinda> always good to have them in your back pocket, even if not used immediately
[00:24] <dinda> I just need the team mailing list address or should it just be sent to the project leads?
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> +1 , I hope outside advice will make the issue less contentious
[00:25] <cprofitt> leads would be better at this time I think...
[00:25] <pleia2> dinda: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning
[00:25] <pleia2> so ubuntu-learning@lists.ubuntu.com
[00:25] <cprofitt> but it is no skin off my nose either way
[00:25] <Vantrax> yeah, im thinking jsut the board
[00:25] <Vantrax> i havent actually made the list on the LP for the board
[00:25] <pleia2> oh
[00:26] <dinda> and something is eating all my mail from that list, so not sure what is up with that
[00:26] <cprofitt> do the board members think drafting questions ahead of time would be a good idea?
[00:26] <pleia2> yep
[00:26] <Vantrax> ill give you the LP list for the board contact soon as i have it dinda
[00:27] <cprofitt> [VOTE] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
[00:27] <MootBot> Please vote on:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time.
[00:27] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:27] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:27] <dinda> okay, that will work
[00:27] <cprofitt> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:27] <pleia2> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:27]  * dinda goes to resubscribe to the list
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:27] <DougieRichardson> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:27] <dinda> +1
[00:27] <MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:28] <Vantrax> +1
[00:28] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:28] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> although I am not sure if each member needs a list, perhaps a discussion on mailing list would be better ?
[00:28] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:28] <Vantrax> yes
[00:28] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:28] <Vantrax> that is a good idea bodhi
[00:28] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:28] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[00:28] <cprofitt> [AGREED] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
[00:28] <MootBot> AGREED received:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
[00:28] <Vantrax> but i think we might be better keeping this one on the board list as opposed to the group list. Its going to be painful as it is
[00:29] <cprofitt> I do not think we each need to send our own list, but I think we should all prepare a list ahead of time
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> I think mailing list makes it easier
[00:29] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?
[00:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?
[00:29] <cprofitt> you are up again pleia2
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> I am OK with it so long as we have access
[00:29] <pleia2> I presume we would all find this acceptable?
[00:29] <pleia2> we hadn't really talked about it
[00:30] <dinda> I got a bunch of good info from our lead Sys Admin, James Troup, the infamous elmo
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> which means me, unles someone else wants to sys admin
[00:30] <dinda> I can paste relevant bits in here
[00:30] <cprofitt> thanks dinda
[00:30] <Vantrax> go ahead dinda
[00:30] <dinda> From James:  I'm happy to host their server, in fact I'd really prefer to if it's going to be learn.ubuntu.com.  The issues around it are:
[00:30] <cprofitt> there are some pros that I can think of... the project would more smoothly be able to have a transition in leadership if Canonical hosted.
[00:30] <dinda>   1) them having root on the server
[00:31] <dinda>  2) them having admin access to moodle interface
[00:31] <dinda>  3) them having write access to the running moodle code
[00:31] <dinda>  4) what version of moodle they run
[00:31] <dinda> (1) would be very hard and may be a blocker if they're convinced they need it (but they don't.  No one else, forums or loco included have root.)
[00:31] <dinda> (2) is not a problem for me
[00:31] <dinda> (3) and (4) kind of combine.  We'd need them to run a stable/released version of moodle for security reasons.
[00:32] <dinda> Even assuming we get agreement on that, we'd really prefer not to do (3) but instead have the code be in a bzr tree that they can request us to pull their changes from after we've review them.  That's negotiable though.
[00:32] <dinda> Hope that helps/makes sense.
[00:32] <dinda> end message
[00:32] <cprofitt> it does make sense
[00:32]  * DougieRichardson mumbles about the response time of the web team
[00:32] <pleia2> I've used bzr on the canonical servers before, the system works out nicely
[00:32] <Vantrax> dinda: there is one instance we do need scp access to be able to update the theme, its copied directly into a folder in the moodle directory
[00:32] <dinda> exactly dougie, tell us your experiences - might help
[00:32] <pleia2> for websites
[00:32] <Vantrax> so we would need scp or sftp access
[00:33] <DougieRichardson> well we deal with them for the wiki/front page
[00:33] <Vantrax> there is no web admin for adding themes
[00:33] <dinda> how often would that need to be done?
[00:33] <pleia2> Vantrax: for both sites I work with on canonical severs, they gave me shell access
[00:33] <DougieRichardson> there was a google exploit bug reported last year - still not fixed
[00:34] <Vantrax> dinda: as often was we change  or update the theme, that would be quite alot in the first few months, then slowing down
[00:35] <dinda> could you get to a stable point then update before going live?
[00:35] <DougieRichardson> dinda: they don't tend to respond too quickly in general - perhaps not an issue for day to day admin but if there's a big problem, how do we guaruntee uptime
[00:35] <cprofitt> we could still have our test server... and then release to the hosted server I guess...
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> dinda: if we do not have root access, what kind of response time will we have if we need something on the site ?
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> sftp / scp access
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> moodle settings adjusted
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> php adjustments ?
[00:35] <dinda> DougieRichardson: that was one thing they specifically said -uptime would be better if they/Canonical hosted
[00:36] <dinda> bodhi_zazen: honestly, no idea
[00:36] <DougieRichardson> dinda: not uptime, response time if root access needed
[00:36] <dinda> it seems to depend on how nice you are to them, where you catch them in the release cycle, IRC
[00:37] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: typically it's somewhat slow, but you can submit an RT ticket and follow up in IRC to get things done more quickly
[00:37] <dinda> pleia2: what are your experiences?
[00:37] <pleia2> there is an IRC channel where they lurk, if you have an RT ticket number they tend to be helpful :)
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> I would suggest it may be best if we keep the server we have until the site is set up, then transition ?
[00:37] <dinda> +1
[00:37] <Vantrax> thats not a bad idea bodhi_zazen
[00:37] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: yeah, plus we won't get learn.ubuntu.com until the project is running anyway :)
[00:38] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, that would be a good plan
[00:38] <dinda> pleia2: define "slow"  like a month?  weeks?  days?
[00:38] <cprofitt> I still share your fear about issues and having them resolved
[00:38] <pleia2> dinda: if you *only* file an RT ticket, could be months
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> I would like to see terms spelled out for something like this
[00:38] <pleia2> dinda: I can usually get things done in a week if I submit a ticket and followup a few days later
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> If i purchase a VPS, there is an agreement on access time
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> it the response time is a week, the project will need to be more stable then it is now
[00:39] <dinda> I know the project may not be a priority at first but I guarantee if the forums goes down or needs something it gets attention b/c they have so many users
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> and as we are using things such as openid, how would that work ?
[00:40] <dinda> so if the project takes off and visibility is high, then quicker service might be  there
[00:40] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: the sysadmins tend to have to approve additional modules to core packages (like drupal), I am sure moodle would be no different
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> So those would be the disadvantages of hosting with Canonical then
[00:41] <dinda> bodhi_zazen: is the OpenID module part of the packaged moodle d/l i the repositories?  or does it come from elsewhere?
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> response time and Canonical would need to approve things such as openid and what not
[00:41] <dinda> I know we already have the module running on our own Moodle server
[00:41] <pleia2> welcome doctormo
[00:41] <doctormo> Why am I always late
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> dinda: it comes from the moodle openid on Launchpad
[00:41]  * doctormo hits his head against a brick wall
[00:41] <cprofitt> welcome doctormo
[00:41]  * dinda hands doctormo a special watch that runs "fast"
[00:42] <cprofitt> I think we would like to know more about how the hosting would work
[00:42] <cprofitt> I would have to bow to bodhi_zazen for what we 'need' in terms of running the Moodle server
[00:42] <cprofitt> as he has done that for us skillfully
[00:42] <Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
[00:42] <dinda> cprofitt: perhaps setting up a meeting with you and other project sys admins with elmo would be best?
[00:42] <Vantrax> welcome doctormo
[00:42] <cprofitt> I am not really a sysadmin in the project
[00:43] <Vantrax> the admin side is mostly bodhi, with a little of me
[00:43] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, has been the sole person responsible
[00:43] <cprofitt> it would have to include bodhi_zazen
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:43] <cprofitt> I have added courses... but my admin has been all through the user interface or asking bodhi_zazen to raise upload limits
[00:44] <doctormo> Did we define roles yet?
[00:44] <dinda> upload limits - ugh, yes, had that issue as well
[00:44] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, are you willing to discuss the issues with elmo for us?
[00:44] <cprofitt> not yet doctormo
[00:44] <cprofitt> waited for you to get here
[00:44] <doctormo> Because I'd vote bodhi_zazen systems guy.
[00:44] <dinda> bodhi_zazen: I'll introduce you to elmo via email and let you two chat via IRC then?
[00:44] <doctormo> Thanks for waiting, I'm terribly sorry.
[00:45] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, are you good with that?
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> That would be great dinda
[00:45] <cprofitt> [AGREED] bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting
[00:45] <MootBot> AGREED received:  bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting
[00:45] <dinda> elmo was on the CC until all the current memberships expired
[00:46] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
[00:46] <dinda> and he's usually around freenode but located in London for time reference
[00:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> it sounds as if in the long run we ill move to Canonical if we want learn.ubuntu.com ;)
[00:46] <doctormo> cprofitt: add that as a task
[00:46] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: was it decided to use an alternative domain name?
[00:46] <cprofitt> I would like to move that we table the license discussion until we know more about the hosting and have some contact with the SFLS
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> no doctormo
[00:47] <pleia2> doctormo: we have to for a while, canonical wants to see quality courses being developed before they give us the l.u.c
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> I think we are exploring the options and need more information to be honest
[00:47] <doctormo> cprofitt: I would second with the addition that we put it as a task to contact the SFLS for advice.
[00:47]  * cprofitt motions to table discussion on licensing until the hosting and SFLS have been contacted
[00:47] <Vantrax> i agree cprofitt
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> is there a consensus on licensing ?
[00:48] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted
[00:48] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted.
[00:48] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:48] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:48] <cprofitt> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:48] <doctormo> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> +0
[00:48] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:48] <Vantrax> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:49] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:49] <dinda> just noting that Canonical has no official recommendation on the topic. . but elmo did offer some advice
[00:49] <doctormo> dinda: about licensing?
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> what was elmo's advice /
[00:49] <dinda> under his ex-community council hat
[00:49] <dinda> quoting from elmo:  IMO (with my (ex-)community council hat on), they can't use CC-BY-SA-NC and be 'learn.ubuntu.com' or an official Ubuntu project - it's not a Free (as defined by Ubuntu) license.
[00:50] <dinda> I'd strongly recommend (we encourage them to/)they go with CC-BY-SA which is a Free license and the most appropriate for this sort of material.
[00:50] <dinda> end quote
[00:50] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:50] <pleia2> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:50] <dinda> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:50] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:50] <doctormo> cprofitt: Can I get non commital show of hands for support for CC-BY-SA, and a different show of hands for NC avoidance?
[00:50] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:50] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
[00:50] <dinda> +0
[00:50] <DougieRichardson> +0
[00:50] <cprofitt> doctormo, at this time no
[00:51] <cprofitt> I would prefer to wait as we have decided until we have more information
[00:51] <cprofitt> that piece is important
[00:51] <cprofitt> but I think it is reasonable to wait until we have all the facts previously discussed
[00:51] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Governance
[00:51] <doctormo> cprofitt: I'm fairly certain that we know what we're doing, but I agree the SFLC should be contacted to be sure.
[00:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Governance
[00:52] <cprofitt> not sure how added that topic
[00:52] <cprofitt> who
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> Sounds like my topic ;)
[00:52] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen go ahead
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> I would just like to suggest that we give some serious thought to team structure and governance
[00:53] <cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> from my experience with the BT , these can become problematic
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> issues we have had on the BT -
[00:53] <cprofitt> I would like to suggest that we build a draft page for people to place their ideas on how to improve the current structure
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> 1. people come and want to join the team.
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> everyone is happy, until said person starts acting out is some way or upsets people
[00:54] <dinda> how long are the terms of the current project leaders?
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> so a process for joining team, and one for removing from the team as well
[00:54] <cprofitt> we set them as two years dinda
[00:54] <Vantrax> 2 years, same as other councils
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> that too dinda
[00:54] <cprofitt> but that has not been 'published'
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> We need rules for things such as voting, simple majority, super majority ? etc, etc
[00:55] <dinda> how long do you set the regular members LP membership for?
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> On the BT I use 1 year
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think that has been determined with this team
[00:56] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, you are correct we have not done that
[00:56] <dinda> was curious b/c I randomly decided for 1 year on the Texas Loco team
[00:56] <cprofitt> we formed the board - and the board needs to set those things in motion
[00:56] <doctormo> My input here would be: we have to make sure that our governance doesn't follow the service orentated pattern of the BT too closely, I believe what we are doing here is more like the production/product team which should follow a more typical software project structure.
[00:56] <dinda> figured a year was long enough to see if they were going to hang around
[00:56] <cprofitt> would you agree that having us set a draft page would be a good idea?
[00:56] <pleia2> doctormo: +1
[00:57] <pleia2> cprofitt: sounds good
[00:57] <doctormo> cprofitt: Can the bot handle multiple options with instant runoff? :-D
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> I am merely suggesting we put some structure in place
[00:58] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, does making a draft page work or should we discuss in email?
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> doctormo: would you like to start on that ?
[00:58] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, I agree we need structure... but we have to start the conversation and IRC is likely not the best medium for that
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> I do not have a strong opinion
[00:58] <dinda> would love to see that draft page, the Doc Team ran into some issues when no one knew or understood the process for joining various levels of teams/internal team projects
[00:58] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: +1, some structure, we have our council for decision making, that's a good start
[00:58] <cprofitt> doctormo, it does not allow multiple values
[00:59] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc
[00:59] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc.
[00:59] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:59] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:59] <cprofitt> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:59] <pleia2> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:59] <doctormo> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:59] <dinda> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:59] <doctormo> I'll add my thoughts there then
[00:59] <DougieRichardson> _1
[00:59] <Vantrax> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:59] <DougieRichardson> +1
[00:59] <MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:59] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:59] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:59] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[01:00] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[01:00] <MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
[01:00] <cprofitt> [AGREED] Draft page to be created for structure
[01:00] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Draft page to be created for structure
[01:00] <cprofitt> Vantrax, can you make the page?
[01:00] <Vantrax> er yeah, later today, im mad busy at work atm
[01:01] <Vantrax> Im stuck doing AD migration testing till this afternoon
[01:01] <cprofitt> AD migration... fun
[01:01] <cprofitt> I did that years ago...
[01:01] <cprofitt> I can make the shell then...
[01:03] <cprofitt> thank you for attending that is the end of our time...
[01:03] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[01:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:03.
[01:03] <cprofitt> #ubuntu-learning for more please
[01:04] <dinda> thanks all!
[01:04] <DougieRichardson> bye all
[01:04] <cprofitt> night DougieRichardson
[10:55]  * persia peers about
[10:56]  * andrew_46 also peers about....
[10:57]  * talsemgeest wishes andrew_46  luck in this channel as well
[10:57] <luisbg> hello
[10:57] <luisbg> how do I request a slot to have a meeting in this channel?
[10:57] <luisbg> (an Ubuntu Studio team meeting)
[10:57] <persia> luisbg, Just invite the calendar to an empty slot.
[10:58] <persia> See http://fridge.ubuntu.com/events
[10:58] <luisbg> through Google Calendar?
[10:58] <luisbg> persia, you mean http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar :P
[10:58] <persia> Right.  But the URL changed: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[10:58] <persia> directions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
[10:58] <luisbg> cool
[10:58] <luisbg> thanks
[10:59] <luisbg> brb (doing that)
[10:59] <persia> No, I meant events.  My memory lags behind system changes.
[11:01]  * persia laments a missing amachu, and wonders if anyone else wants to lead.
[11:01] <TheMuso> Do we have enough people present?
[11:02]  * popey wonders what meeting is on now
[11:02] <amachu> Hi
[11:02] <amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi
[11:02] <TheMuso> Hi amachu.
[11:02] <elky> oh. hi!
[11:02] <TheMuso> Looks like we only have one membership applicant this week.
[11:03] <persia> popey, Asia/Oceania
[11:03] <popey> oh, not in the calendar :S
[11:03] <andrew_46> That would be me
[11:03] <amachu> TheMuso: yes
[11:03] <persia> amachu, Could you sort out the calendar for next time?
[11:03] <amachu> persia: sure
[11:04] <persia> amachu, Thank you.
[11:04] <amachu> so elky & lifeless are you people there?
[11:04] <elky> hi still.
[11:04] <amachu> elky: yep.. got you
[11:04] <amachu> lifeless: ??
[11:04] <lifeless> hai
[11:05] <persia> That's all of us then
[11:05] <lifeless> #start
[11:05] <lifeless> #meeting start
[11:05] <persia> it's startmeeting
[11:05] <amachu> lifeless: yes
[11:05] <lifeless> #startmeeting
[11:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 05:05. The chair is lifeless.
[11:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[11:05] <amachu> andrew_46: Welcome
[11:06] <andrew_46> amachu: Thanks
[11:06] <luisbg> hello TheMuso
[11:06] <luisbg> hello popey
[11:06] <amachu> go ahead describing yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu
[11:06]  * luisbg waves
[11:06] <andrew_46> My name is Andrew Strong from the Blue Mountains, Australia. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/andrew.46. I am a Registered Nurse, Bachelor of Arts student and Linux enthusiast.
[11:06] <persia> luisbg, best after the meeting
[11:06] <andrew_46> I have been with Ubuntu since Dapper Drake and my major contribution to Ubuntu has been the writing and support of many tutorials over several years on the Ubuntu Forums. Several have been awarded 'Tutorial of the Week' by Forum's staff, details are on my wiki.
[11:06] <andrew_46> I have also more recently become a keen member of the Beginners Team (BT) under bodhi.zazen where I work predominately providing support both on irc and the Ubuntu Forums for beginners to Ubuntu. Some members of the BT have been good enough to provide some very generous testimonials on my wiki, others are here to support my application. That's my 3+ lines :-).
[11:07] <persia> andrew_46, Have you worked at all with the doc team?
[11:07] <andrew_46> persia: I have not as yet, but I wold like to
[11:08] <persia> How about with your local team, or is it all forums and IRC?
[11:08] <andrew_46> I am a memebr of the Ausralian team but it is a little quiet
[11:08] <andrew_46> So for the most part forums an irc
[11:10] <lifeless> +1
[11:11] <TheMuso> andrew_46: Why have you focused on the command-line with your tutorials?
[11:11] <andrew_46> TheMuso: That is where my strength is and it is also an area that many need the most guidance
[11:12] <TheMuso> Great!
[11:12] <elky> andrew_46, what parts of irc do you help with?
[11:12] <andrew_46> I work on #ubuntu, helping out with what I can
[11:13] <andrew_46> I would be keen to work on other channels
[11:14] <andrew_46> but the greatest need seems to be focussed on that one particular channel
[11:14] <lifeless> its a hotspot
[11:14] <TheMuso> My goodness, you manage with that firehose? :)
[11:14] <elky> andrew_46, there is a localised help channel which could always use more people.
[11:14] <amachu> andrew_46: have you joined hands with Aussie community  and have particiapted in events it conducts etc., (I read you are a Nurse in ICU, but still...)
[11:15] <lifeless> amachu: the blue mountains are waaay out of the way
[11:15] <andrew_46> amachu: I am a member of the Australian chapter but it is mostly mailing list support at the moment
[11:15] <amachu> lifeless: his locality you mean?
[11:15] <lifeless> yes
[11:15] <lifeless> gotta remember australia is insanely huge
[11:16] <andrew_46> lifeless: To tell the truth tSydney is 90 minutes by train :-)
[11:16] <amachu> andrew_46: are there more people from your place?
[11:16]  * TheMuso waves from Wentworth Falls. :)
[11:16]  * lifeless from epping
[11:16] <andrew_46> amachu: TheMuso appears to be 20 minutes from me :-)
[11:17] <andrew_46> I actually did not realise so many so close :-)
[11:17]  * TheMuso will be back in Sydney by the end of the year hopefully.
[11:17] <elky> andrew_46, do you irc under other nicknames?
[11:18] <elky> TheMuso, you said that last year :P
[11:18] <andrew_46> elky: No, always as andrew_46
[11:18] <TheMuso> elky: Yeah but its more realistic this year. :)
[11:18] <amachu> you have contributing for quite sometime, infact few years.. and any reason for not having applied so far?
[11:18] <andrew_46> or 47
[11:18] <elky> andrew_46, ah, so you've really only been active in #ubuntu the past fortnight or so?
[11:18] <amachu> andrew_46: how do you think Ubuntu membership, help you in your future activities?
[11:19] <andrew_46> elky: I suspect much longer than that? Do the logs prove me wrong?
[11:20] <andrew_46> amachu: It would be an indication of my commitment to Ubuntu for the long term
[11:20] <elky> andrew_46, yeah, i can only find 20 or so lines of communication in there for your current nick for the past 2 years
[11:20] <elky> most on the 19th of this month
[11:20] <andrew_46> elky: My apologies then I have obviously made a major error
[11:21] <TheMuso> Is there anybody here willing to speak for andrew_46's contributions to the community?
[11:21] <Bodsda> o/
[11:22] <leoquant> I support andrew for ubuntu membership
[11:22] <Ash_R> as do i
[11:22] <Bodsda> I fully support his application
[11:23] <elky> Bodsda, you being bodhi.zazen?
[11:23] <lukjad007> This is for andrew_46?
[11:23] <Bodsda> elky: no
[11:23] <lukjad007> Sorry, I was afk
[11:23] <amachu> Bodsda: leoquant: about yourself..
[11:23] <elky> ah, similar enough name, sorry
[11:23] <TuxPurple> Bodsda, +1
[11:24] <Bodsda> elky: no worries, happens all the time :)
[11:24] <Bodsda> amachu: about ourselves?
[11:24] <andrew_46> elky: bodhi.zazen has left a testimonial on my wiki
[11:24] <amachu> yep.. looking at wiki now
[11:24] <elky> Bodsda, how do you know the applicant ;)
[11:24] <elky> andrew_46, yes, hence the confusion
[11:25] <lukjad007> I too support the application of andrew_46 for membership.
[11:25] <Bodsda> oh right, I know andrew_46 from the Ubuntu Beginners Team, and from his reputation on UF
[11:25] <leoquant> i know andrew from his great howto's
[11:25] <Bodsda> +1 leoquant
[11:25] <persia> lukjad007, TuxPurple could you also share why you wish to support the applicant?
[11:26] <Ash_R> i also support the application
[11:26] <persia> Ash_R, You as well :(
[11:26] <Bodsda> :)
[11:26] <persia> s/:(/:)/
[11:26]  * persia curses this silly keyboard layout
[11:27] <lukjad007> I know andrew_46 for his great disposition. He is always helpful, and does his best to help anyone who needs it. I find that he is always ready to help. Most importantly, he always is upbeat, at least whenever I am around :)
[11:27] <talsemgeest> Oops, missed my cue. I to support andrew_46 in his application
[11:28] <persia> talsemgeest, why?
[11:28] <Ash_R> i know andrew_46 both from ubuntu forums and ubuntu beginners teams.  his simple howto guides have provided help to so many.  as a member of the beginners team he is always willing to help when he can.
[11:28] <amachu> am at +.5 now..
[11:28] <Ash_R> he has shown long standing commitment to ubuntu and open source as a whole
[11:28] <amachu> expecting little more, for a +1
[11:29] <talsemgeest> persia: Because I know andrew_46 has contributed so much of his time and effort to the ubuntu community, and has helped me out considerably with my various projects
[11:29] <elky> amachu, i'm also +0.5
[11:29] <amachu> andrew_46: has done a good work.
[11:29] <lukjad007> His Howtos are very good, and have gotten me through a few complex problems.
[11:29] <lifeless> so thats +2 so far
[11:29] <Joeb454> I'd also give a +1 for andrew_46
[11:29] <TuxPurple> I know andrew_46 through ubuntu beginners team where he is famous for using slrn and ofcourse his ubuntuforums tutorial
[11:29] <Bodsda> I would not be here using irssi if it was not for his guide
[11:30] <lukjad007> And, on other occasions it has made my life a LOT easier
[11:30] <elky> i'd like to see cooperation with the doc team. they really dont bite much
[11:30] <Joeb454> he's consistantly helpful, good natured, and generally a nice guy. If you need help, he'll do his best to get you sorted :)
[11:30] <andrew_46> elky: I agree, I should approach them
[11:30] <amachu> elky: what you mentioned or some local activity would made it through my mind
[11:30] <lukjad007> The reason it took me so long to add this last bit was because andrew_46 changed his avatar
[11:31] <lukjad007> So I thought the people who helped me were to different people :)
[11:31] <lukjad007> *two
[11:31] <persia> OK.  I think that's enough expressions of support.
[11:31] <amachu> persia: TheMuso: comments?
[11:31]  * Bodsda gives one last GO andrew_46 !!
[11:31] <andrew_46> Thanks guys :-)
[11:31] <lukjad007> GO andrew_46!
[11:32] <leoquant> go!
[11:32]  * lukjad007 becomes quiet now.
[11:32]  * Bodsda shuts up
[11:32] <TheMuso> Ok, I think I am +0.5. Can't put a finger on why, probably not working with as many teams, i.e the doc team or the loco team channels to help with support.
[11:32] <persia> I'd really like to see a higher hit count for the nick in #ubuntu, or some work with the doc team.
[11:32] <lifeless> total of 3
[11:32] <persia> The forums stuff is *great*, and there's a lot of support from others, including a number of current Members, but I just don't think it's complete.
[11:33] <amachu> lifeless: i don't think we can sum up half counts ;-)
[11:33] <lifeless> so I'm at +1 as I said earlier
[11:33] <persia> I'm voting 0 for mostly mathematical reasons.
[11:33] <lifeless> because of the forums stuff mainly
[11:33] <lifeless> which I think shows sustained, significant contributions
[11:33] <persia> andrew_46, I think you've done great, but I think you've a bit more to go on the significant side.  You've sustained down pat, and obviously lots of support from others.
[11:34] <lifeless> I agree there are deeper integration with teams possible, but I don't think that that is a prerequisite
[11:34] <lifeless> and I think we're making a mistake as a board if we start saying 'and team membership' :)
[11:34] <andrew_46> persia: Thanks for your comments
[11:35] <persia> I don't think team membership matters at all.  I'm just not convinced that work in the forums is very discoverable to those outside the forums.
[11:35] <lifeless> persia: does it have to be? the forums are _huge_
[11:35] <lifeless> and googlable
[11:35] <persia> Hrm.  That's a good question, and perhaps enough to change my mind.
[11:36]  * persia investigates the forums a bit more
[11:36] <elky> persia, exactly. which is why i'd love to see him touch base with the docs team
[11:36] <Bodsda> there have been questions put to forum staff before as to why forum contributions are not recognized as 'ubuntu contributions' I think the main response is usually 'it should be though'
[11:37]  * Bodsda tries to find the thread
[11:37] <persia> Bodsda, forum contributions are recognised as contributions, even by me.
[11:37] <elky> Bodsda, they are, but howtos on the forums have a limited audience
[11:37] <mc44> so does irc
[11:37] <lifeless> elky: why do you say that elky ?
[11:37] <Bodsda> persia: elky: Ok, well -- i wont look for the thread then :)
[11:37] <lifeless> I find google on the forums is much faster than the online help we ship
[11:37] <amachu> Bodsda: I would say it is, but at times not enough to make good judgements
[11:38] <elky> lifeless, they're not peer reviewable, or if they are you end up with multiple versions often contradicting, often out of date. these dont make it into the official help areas where they're clearly needed if they were required in the first place
[11:38] <Bodsda> amachu: I agree it needs to be 'significant' and shouldnt be the only conntribution, but as you can see, andrew contributes elsewhere as well... just my 2 pennies
[11:38] <elky> lifeless, one can link to a howto from a forum really easy. why one needs to lock a howto into a one-person-editable situation is beyond me.
[11:39] <lifeless> elky: pragmatically, the forums are more editable than help.ubuntu.com
[11:39] <amachu> Bodsda: I agree, he is too close..
[11:39] <lifeless> elky: its a different *idiom*, but actually very effective.
[11:40] <Bodsda> amachu: too close? He has always been an incredibly invaluable member on irc to the ubuntu-beginners team.
[11:40] <leoquant> i am most active on the dutch/belgium forum with over 10.000 posts but i was able to discover his work/howto's.....(on the ubuntuforums) and they were most helpful
[11:40] <TheMuso> So have we all voted, or are things still up in the air?
[11:40] <elky> lifeless, i find the forums less editable. i cant for instance fix something i see wrong in those posts. my correction must go through the OP who is more or less a gatekeeper, who may or may not maintain the post.
[11:40] <leoquant> so his contributions are visible
[11:40] <persia> Bodsda, You'll do better just to wait, as we debate ourselves.
[11:40] <lifeless> persia is considering
[11:40] <amachu> well, should we take up this as +1 from lifeless & others feeling something more is needed?
[11:40] <elky> amachu, yep.
[11:41] <Bodsda> persia: sorry, was just repsonding... il keep quiet now :)
[11:41] <persia> I don't like it, but I've  become convinced the thing I don't like is forums policy, rather than anything else.
[11:41] <lifeless> persia: so your vote is ?
[11:41] <persia> The work is definitely sustained, and significant *within* the forums (don't have useful links to beginners team stuff, but that started in the forums)
[11:42] <persia> I'll vote for membership.u
[11:42] <amachu> persia: so a +1 from you
[11:42] <lifeless> elky: I think you're effectively punishing contributions made via the forums because you prefer a different style of work.
[11:42] <elky> lifeless, no. the contributions in the forum is why he got +0.5.
[11:42] <amachu> persia: am I right?
[11:43] <amachu> and TheMuso?
[11:43] <TheMuso> I said +0.5 before, and I am still undecided as to whether I will change my mind, so I'll probably stick to +0.5 as well.
[11:43] <persia> I'm punishing contributions to the forums because I think they aren't discoverable, not because I want a different style of work.
[11:43] <lifeless> elky: you're saying you consider guide written in the forums less worthy of being 'significant' than guides written for e.g. help.ubuntu.com or the shipped docs
[11:44] <lifeless> I think everyone has settled on their votes now
[11:44] <lifeless> 2 +1's, the rest 0.5, AIUI
[11:44] <elky> lifeless, i said i prefer them ont in the forums. not that i'm punishing him for them being there
[11:44] <elky> lifeless, his dishonesty about irc is what lost him the other 0.5.
[11:44] <lifeless> elky: kk
[11:45] <andrew_46> elky: I apologise again, I am not sure what is happening there
[11:45] <persia> lifeless, That summary matches my understanding.
[11:45] <amachu> I don't think we could sum up .5 ;-)
[11:45] <amachu> it +2 out of five present
[11:46] <Joeb454> well technically if the other 3 gave 0.5 that's 3.5/5
[11:46] <Joeb454> ;)
[11:46] <lifeless> amachu: a 0.5 that isn't summable is 0. We should either not allow 0.5, or sum them.
[11:46] <persia> Joeb454, Well, kinda, but kinda not.
[11:46] <elky> amachu, 3. lifeless and persia went +1 iirc.
[11:46] <Joeb454> persia: I'm just kidding, I know you can't have a 0.5, it wouldn't work
[11:46] <amachu> elky: lifeless & persia?
[11:46] <lifeless> elky: lifeless + persia = 2. themuso, amachu, elky @ 0.5 each would me another 1.5 :P
[11:47] <persia> Which is enough.
[11:47] <amachu> lifeless: we should take it up that way?
[11:47] <elky> lifeless, yes, i was taking in the 'rounding down'
[11:47] <lifeless> elky: ah right - good point
[11:47] <amachu> ;-)
[11:47] <elky> lifeless, or at least that's how i read it
[11:48] <lifeless> amachu: I don't have a view, other than it should be consistent. Either we should stop saying 0.5 completely, or we should sum the 0.5's and round the total down
[11:48] <amachu> may be I raise my + 0.5 to +1, since elky and Muso also recognises the contribution..
[11:48] <Bodsda> yay
[11:48] <elky> lifeless, if the .5 takes it over the required threshhold, why round?
[11:48] <amachu> and these is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed
[11:48] <elky> lifeless, i say call it as it is, really
[11:49] <amachu> and there is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed
[11:49] <lifeless> elky: 0.5 would allow exact ties, which the odd number of board members doesn't permit otherwise
[11:49] <lifeless> elky: but sure, that would be fine with me too
[11:49] <amachu> I raise my .5 to +1
[11:50] <elky> lifeless, if it came to that, the .5
[11:50] <elky> lifeless, if it came to that, the .5'ers would decide if they really meant .5
[11:50] <lifeless> sure
[11:50] <lifeless> like I say, it would be fine with me too
[11:50] <TheMuso> Ok, so where do we stand?
[11:51] <amachu> elky: I wouldn't recommend a .5 to be considered and summed up, It has to be +1
[11:51] <persia> I think we should permit 0.5s, to indicate a positive inclination, without being sure.
[11:51] <TheMuso> persia: Agreed.
[11:51] <persia> I'd not like to see us all vote that way, but I think it's useful.
[11:51] <popey> The EMEA team uses +0 to do that persia
[11:51] <lifeless> three +1 votes, two 0.5s
[11:51] <popey> as opposed to -0
[11:51] <persia> popey, Interesting idea.  We usually use -1, 0, 0.5, and 1
[11:51] <lifeless> I prefer +0 as positive inclination. Its less confusing than a 0.5 that doesn't mean 0.5.
[11:51] <popey> I don't think we have ever used 0.5
[11:51] <elky> persia, same
[11:52] <persia> Shall we do that moving forward, and use +0, -0 ?
[11:52]  * TheMuso only uses 0.5 because oterhs do. I thought it was +0 originally
[11:52] <TheMuso> Fine by me
[11:52] <lifeless> aye
[11:52] <amachu> fine. then I welcome andrew_46 :-)
[11:52] <amachu> it that fine?
[11:52] <TheMuso> Yeah
[11:52] <andrew_46> amachu: Thank you!
[11:53] <andrew_46> Thanks all
[11:53] <Ash_R> congratulations andrew_46
[11:53] <persia> It's what we voted.
[11:53] <lukjad007> Congrats andrew_46!
[11:53] <amachu> andrew_46: but would like to see more as we had felt..
[11:53] <leoquant> congrats andrew
[11:53] <Bodsda> w00t, go andrew_46 !!!
[11:53] <talsemgeest> Congratulations andrew_46!!!
[11:53] <andrew_46> Thanks all the BT here :-)
[11:53] <popey> The luxury of one hour for one membership application :)
[11:53] <amachu> and our best wishes..
[11:53] <lifeless> #stopmeeting
[11:53] <andrew_46> amachu: thanks you
[11:53] <lifeless> #stop
[11:53] <TheMuso> endmeeting
[11:53] <popey> #endmeeting iirc
[11:53] <TuxPurple> congrats andrew_46 :)
[11:54] <lifeless> #endmeeting
[11:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:54.
[11:54] <TheMuso> popey: Yeah, I always hope that such meetings are short, but they never are.
[11:54] <lifeless> the opposite of start, is stop. Sheesh.
[11:54] <popey> :)
[11:54] <TheMuso> Thanks folks, gotta run.
[11:54] <popey> lifeless: I think they accept patches ;)
[11:54] <lifeless> popey: sure, I'll put it on the queue.
[11:54] <lifeless> :)
[11:54] <popey> :)
[11:54] <amachu> is that all?
[11:55] <lifeless> amachu: I think so; themuso just /parted
[11:55] <amachu> any else for any one to raise?
[11:55] <amachu> anything else for any one to raise?
[11:55] <amachu> persia: elky: ?
[11:55] <elky> nope
[11:55] <persia> I still want to see a decision on adding more people.
[11:55] <persia> 5 is far too small.
[11:56] <amachu> persia: yes
[11:56] <amachu> i have been asking for people to reply on list
[11:56] <amachu> elky: lifeless: could you please do that?
[11:56] <persia> Understood, but I don't think we've reached consensus, except that we didn't want to debate it here without the candidate present.
[11:57] <lifeless> amachu: do what?
[11:57] <amachu> lifeless: on adding new members to board
[11:57] <persia> Or rather, on taking a decision on the pending nominees.
[11:57] <amachu> persia: yes
[11:57] <lifeless> I don't think I knew any of them
[11:57] <lifeless> so I can't comment
[11:58] <popey> You guys are taking on more members of the membership board?
[11:58] <lifeless> popey: we're spread over a very wide time interval
[11:58] <persia> popey, Yes.  We're at 5 members.  We're authorised to be at 9 by the CC.
[11:58] <lifeless> popey: its 9pm for me now, and it gets worse in summer
[11:58] <amachu> lifeless: there is one nomination from persia.
[11:58] <popey> Understandable
[11:59] <persia> amachu, There were two nominations last I looked.
[11:59] <amachu> on list?
[11:59] <persia> on list
[11:59]  * persia double-checks
[11:59] <lifeless> I don't know Zheng
[11:59] <amachu> persia: on list?
[11:59] <lifeless> amachu: will you be doing minutes?
[11:59] <amachu> lifeless: you can assess, going through the wiki etc.,
[12:00] <amachu> lifeless: on the list?
[12:01] <lifeless> amachu: yes
[12:01] <lifeless> I see both candidates
[12:01] <lifeless> I will do more reading this week
[12:01] <amachu> i will do it. but please make it a point to reply
[12:02] <amachu> I will add it to agena next time.. and we will take it up..
[12:02] <amachu> it will help the meeting to be conducted once in a week again
[12:02] <amachu> elky: lifeless: persia: will that be fine
[12:02] <persia> I don't think we want to return to that until we can reach 8-9 members
[12:03] <amachu> persia: yes
[12:03] <persia> But I'd be happy to conclude discussions on the nominees sooner.
[12:03] <amachu> sure, I will post minutes to the list, and lets make it a point to give our feedback
[12:04] <amachu> persia: will that be fine
[12:04] <persia> amachu, fine by me.
[12:04] <amachu> elky: ?
[12:05] <amachu> and with you lifeless?
[12:05] <lifeless> ? sorry, whats the question
[12:08] <amachu> lifeless: that i make minutes of meeting and we decide it soon on new nominations
[12:08] <lifeless> yes please and sure (both already agreed to above :P)
[12:09] <amachu> ok
[12:09] <amachu> Thank you every one for participating
[12:11] <persia> Next meeting 7th July?
[12:11] <ajmitch> 9 members on the board would make voting & discussion interesting
[12:11] <amachu> our next meeting will be on 14 July 09
[12:11] <elky> amachu, ack on list stuff.
[12:11] <persia> ajmitch, If we reach that point, we plan to have 2 6-member meetings, at 9:00 and 15:00 UTC.
[12:11] <amachu> elky:  thank you
[12:11] <persia> amachu, OK.  Thanks for the clarification.
[12:12] <ajmitch> persia: that sounds reasonable
[12:12] <ajmitch> not that I should need to be attending anytime soon
[12:12] <persia> ajmitch, The issue is that by the time amachu finishes the workday, you're probably thinking you ought to have been in bed (and the moreso in your Summer)
[15:59]  * mathiaz waves
[15:59] <sommer> o//
[16:00] <Spike1506> \o
[16:01]  * stgraber waves
[16:01] <ttx_> \o/
[16:01] <alex_muntada> o/
[16:01] <mathiaz> let's get the Ubuntu Server team meeting started
[16:01] <dendrobates> o/
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <mathiaz> Last week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090616
[16:02] <zul> heyllo
[16:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] DRBD
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  DRBD
[16:02] <mathiaz> I think I saw ivoks email about using dkms for drbd
[16:03] <nijaba> o/
[16:03] <mathiaz> I don't remember if there was any reply
[16:03] <zul> on the kernel list there was, they are fine with it moving to dkms
[16:04] <mathiaz> right - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006067.html
[16:04] <mathiaz> ok: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006121.html
[16:05] <mathiaz> ^^ so it seems that ivoks is working on a dkms version of drbd
[16:05] <mathiaz> anything else to report on the DRBD front
[16:05] <mathiaz> ?
[16:05]  * RoAkSoAx says hello
[16:05] <zul> not that I know of
[16:06] <mathiaz> ivoks isn't around so he can't give an update on his packaging work
[16:06] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
[16:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Hadoop packaging
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hadoop packaging
[16:06] <mathiaz> ttx_: ^^
[16:07] <ttx_> o/
[16:07] <mathiaz> ttx_: did you have sometime to look at the hadoop packages?
[16:07] <ttx_> Yes. Let me gather my notes
[16:08] <ttx_> Looking at their source package, the main issue is that it builds hadoop from source but source contains binary JARs
[16:08] <ttx_> (that are used at compile-time and then copied to the binary packages)
[16:08] <ttx_> In order to be debian-compliant those JARs first need to be packaged separately, and then hadoop must properly build-depend and runtime-depend on them.
[16:08] <ttx_> that's a classic issue with java libraries. usually they build from "source and other binary jars"
[16:09] <ttx_> There are a few other minor issues with the packaging
[16:09] <mathiaz> ttx_: is there a process to fix this "classic" issue?
[16:09] <ttx_> Like a cloudera-specific patchsystem, Hard dependency on sun-java6-*
[16:09] <ttx_> mathiaz: yes, package and package again
[16:10] <ttx_> mathiaz: Basically you map all the missing deps and start pumping out packages
[16:10] <mathiaz> ttx_: do you have list of jars that should be packaged separatly?
[16:10] <mathiaz> ttx_: do you have a list of these missing deps?
[16:10] <ttx_> jets3t kfs xmlenc JavaXMLBuilder
[16:11] <ttx_> also they want commons-cli 2.0 -> we have 1.1
[16:11] <ttx_> so that needs to be doublechecked for compat
[16:11] <ttx_> if not compatible, add commons-cli-2.0 to the mix
[16:11] <mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so the first step to move things forward would be to package these libraries
[16:11] <ttx_> note that the dependency analysis was made from Hadoop project
[16:12] <ttx_> while the packaging issues were done by looking at Cloudera packaging
[16:12] <ttx_> and Hadoop-Cloudera might bring some other deps
[16:12] <ttx_> since it's Hadoop++
[16:12] <mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the cloudera packaging bits?
[16:12] <mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the Hadoop-Cloudera?
[16:13] <ttx_> I think it's ASL-2, let me doublecheck
[16:14] <ttx_> Hard to tell from the packaging, patch is simply shipped as uuencode in debian/
[16:14] <ttx_> yes, ASL-2
[16:14] <mathiaz> ttx_: and the rest of the debian/ content is covered by ASL-2?
[16:15] <ttx_> "This distribution is Copyright 2009, Cloudera, Inc. and is licensed under
[16:15] <ttx_> the Apache 2.0 License as above. See http://cloudera.com/distribution"
[16:15] <mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so that means the packaging work could be based on cloudera packages.
[16:15] <ttx_> mathiaz: sure. It might even be done in collaboration with Cloudera
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: could you write down your notes in a wiki page (is there a spec?) and flush out the first steps to be taken to move things forward?
[16:16] <ttx_> mathiaz: I fear I won't have time to drive this. But I can shove my notes in a wikipage
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-hadoop
[16:16] <mathiaz> ttx_: sure - your notes are enough
[16:17] <ttx_> ok, action me on tis
[16:17] <mathiaz> ttx_: if someone wants to help out, they will know where to start
[16:17] <ttx_> this, even
[16:17] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
[16:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
[16:18] <mathiaz> Anything else related hadoop?
[16:18] <ttx_> nothing from me
[16:19] <mathiaz> great - let's move on  then
[16:20] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
[16:20] <mathiaz> We're still merging packages from Debian
[16:20] <mathiaz> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
[16:20] <mathiaz> ^^ shows 68 outstanding merges as of now
[16:21] <mathiaz> while https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html lists 144 outsanding merges
[16:21] <mathiaz> so there is still some work to be done on that front
[16:21] <mathiaz> help is welcome
[16:22] <mjeanson> I could give a hand, if there is something specific to be done
[16:22] <mathiaz> mjeanson: I usually publish a list of easy-merges to be done
[16:22] <mathiaz> mjeanson: on the ServerTeam roadmap
[16:22] <jmdault> mathiaz: I'd like to help on Asterisk, but I'm new to ServerTeam
[16:22] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:22] <alex_muntada> I think that vsftpd and amavisd-new have been already merged
[16:23] <stgraber> jmdault as done a package of the latest stable release of asterisk (!= 1.6) using dkms
[16:23] <alex_muntada> asterisk is still pending, AFAICS
[16:23] <stgraber> it's currently in our PPA
[16:23] <mathiaz> alex_muntada: if so, feel free to update the wiki page
[16:23] <jmdault> I'm not sure about the best Asterisk version though
[16:23] <stgraber> that could be adapted to 1.6 I guess if we want to ship 1.6
[16:24] <jmdault> The official "stable" Asterisk version is 1.4
[16:24] <mathiaz> what's the current version of asterisk in debian?
[16:24] <jmdault> Debian has 1.4.21 version (OLD!)
[16:24] <stgraber> 1.6 recently reached unstable
[16:24] <jmdault> and 1.6.1 (unstable)
[16:24] <mathiaz> ok - so we're interested in the version in unstable
[16:24] <mathiaz> what's the difference between unstable and the PPA version?
[16:25] <jmdault> And Debian Asterisk 1.6 has no support for MySQL, mp3, oh323...
[16:25] <stgraber> the PPA is the latest stable release (1.4), unstable has asterisk's next release 1.6
[16:25] <jmdault> mathiaz: the PPA version is an updated version of the stable release
[16:25] <jmdault> I also packaged the Asterisk Gui
[16:26] <jmdault> and made DKMS modules for the drivers (instead of debian's module-assistant)
[16:27] <jmdault> It's made to help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
[16:28] <mathiaz> jmdault: ok - are you in touch with the Debian maintainer team?
[16:28] <mathiaz> jmdault: what's their position on using dkms?
[16:29] <jmdault> mathiaz: no, as I said, I'm a fairly new Ubuntu adept
[16:29] <mathiaz> also what's the time frame for upstream 1.6 release? Does it make sense to try to target 1.6 for karmic?
[16:29] <jmdault> I'm an ex Mandriva developer btw ;-)
[16:29] <stgraber> jmdault: you should probably contact the Debian VOIP team and see why they chose 1.6 instead of going stable
[16:29] <ttx_> jmdault: we love ex-Mandriva developers.
[16:29] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - we've all started somewhere.
[16:30] <ttx_> we love all French.
[16:30] <mathiaz> jmdault: we're here to help you out
[16:30] <jmdault> stgraber: yes, I was planning to to that. I have two asterisk servers to install this week, however ;-)
[16:31] <jmdault> I'll contact Debian VoIP team, and Digium as well, to know their plans
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: ok - so to move thing forward, the question is which version makes most sense for karmic
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: 1.6 (unstable) or 1.4?
[16:31] <mathiaz> jmdault: you don't need to give an answer now
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: we've got until FeatureFreeze to decide
[16:32] <jmdault> mathiaz: good
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: August 17th
[16:32] <mathiaz> jmdault: August *27th*
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: the sooner the better though - especially for such a big piece of code
[16:33] <jmdault> mathiaz: yes, I'll do that ASAP
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: you may also have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
[16:33] <jmdault> It's not such a big piece of code
[16:33] <mathiaz> jmdault: as it seems to be a rather old spec and may not be up-to-date
[16:33] <jmdault> the DAHDI interface works with 1.4 or 1.6
[16:34] <jmdault> the gui, voice prompts as well
[16:34] <stgraber> got to go now, though mjeanson- has IRC on his cell :)
[16:34] <mathiaz> jmdault: you may have some other idea on improving the state of asterisk in ubuntu (and debian)
[16:34] <jmdault> mathiaz: is Fabian nearby?
[16:34] <mathiaz> jmdault: could you report back next week on which version of asterisk should be in karmic?
[16:35] <jmdault> Yes, I report the version next week
[16:35] <mathiaz> [ACTION] jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
[16:35] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
[16:35] <mathiaz> anything else on the topic of asterisk?
[16:36] <jmdault> one issue
[16:36] <jmdault> binary drivers
[16:36] <jmdault> the dfsg version removes code for the echo canceller
[16:36] <jmdault> the driver, at build time, contacts digium to download a firmware
[16:37] <jmdault> the "build time" here, is either module-assistant, or dkms
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: interesting. we'll have to look into that.
[16:38] <jmdault> Absolutely no proprietary code will be shipped in the .debs
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: could you follow up on the ubuntu-server@ ml?
[16:38] <jmdault> will do
[16:38] <mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
[16:38] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:38] <jmdault> great
[16:39] <mathiaz> anything else related to last week minutes?
[16:41] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on then
[16:41] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
[16:41] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
[16:41] <nijaba> Motd currently displays 7 lines of legal warning that takes up usefull space.
[16:41] <nijaba> It is beleived that displaying this information is only
[16:41] <nijaba> necessary once per admin user.
[16:41] <nijaba> This could be done by only displaying this if there is no ~/.legal_seen file and add it once displayed.
[16:42] <nijaba> Kirkland has already implemented it, we are waiting for legal to approve the change.
[16:42] <nijaba> Given the reclaimed extra space, and in order to provide visibility to new or important features in Ubuntu Server Edition, we could add an ubuntu-tips package, installed by default, that would randomly display 2 lines of text at the end of the motd coming from a list of tips placed in a given directory.
[16:42] <nijaba> examples:
[16:42] <nijaba> To learn more about Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud go to:
[16:42] <nijaba> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
[16:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
[16:42] <nijaba> Did you know that you can get useful notifications displayed at the
[16:42] <nijaba> bottom of the terminal by using the byobu package?
[16:43] <nijaba> These tips would be defined and reviewed by the community, on a wiki page
[16:43] <nijaba> What would you think of this?
[16:43]  * sommer +1
[16:44] <alex_muntada> +1
[16:44] <zul> -1
[16:44] <ttx_> -1
[16:44] <mathiaz> nijaba: like a fortune in the motd?
[16:44] <mathiaz> zul: ttx_: why?
[16:44] <zul> so it would be like clippy for linux?
[16:44] <nijaba> mathiaz: that's the idea, yes
[16:45] <nijaba> zul: huh, no, since it would be only displayed once, at login, in a very non obtrusive fashion
[16:45] <ttx_> 1/ I'm all for recovering that space, but not to waste it again. 2/ I expect difficulties on finding tiops that make sense for everyone
[16:45] <ttx_> but as always, I can be convinced otherwise :)
[16:46] <mathiaz> nijaba already gave two examples of tips
[16:46] <ttx_> I just anticipate flamefests on tip contents
[16:46] <zul> i think you would get complaints like those of landscape
[16:46] <mathiaz> ttx_: would these two be ok for you?
[16:46] <ttx_> for not a lot to gain
[16:46] <nijaba> ttx_: I think yo anticipate too much :)
[16:47] <sommer> would you be able to disable the tips?
[16:47] <mathiaz> zul: true - the complain about landscape were about the commercial aspect of it
[16:47] <ttx_> What would be the guidelines to make a good tip ? Community approval on said wikipage ?
[16:47] <nijaba> ttx_: the issue we are trying to solve: inform users of what's new in the ubuntu while we know most do not read release notes
[16:47] <zul> besides i dont think anyone would look at it either
[16:47] <mathiaz> ttx_: sounds like a good plan
[16:47]  * nijaba agrees
[16:47] <kirkland> i vote +0, i wouldn't mind an ubuntu-tips package that added tips to the motd, but until we see the contents of this tips database, i don't think it should be in the default server install
[16:47] <mathiaz> another source of tip could be something similar to the package of day
[16:48] <kirkland> however, seeing the contents of ubuntu-tips, the quality and relevance, etc, i think this could become a good thing
[16:48] <ttx_> I tend to agree with kirkland here
[16:48] <mathiaz> right - what would be the minimum number of tips availble before we move on?
[16:48]  * nijaba propose to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.  I'll send the url to the ml and ask for other input
[16:49] <zul> i just dont see what you gain from it though
[16:49] <nijaba> zul: visibility of new features that have been brought in
[16:49] <mathiaz> nijaba: seems like a first step in the direction
[16:49] <kirkland> nijaba: i suggest you throw it into a bzr tree, and a small package, put it in your ppa
[16:50] <alex_muntada> there is already fortunes-debian-hints which may contain some useful tips
[16:50] <mathiaz> zul: let's see what kind of tips are found and we can discuss the relevant of including them once we'got them
[16:50] <zul> mathiaz: fine with me.
[16:51] <ttx_> maybe I'm a little too careful :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> alex_muntada: good suggestions
[16:51] <mathiaz> nijaba: could you start a wiki page?
[16:51] <nijaba> mathiaz: sure
[16:51] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
[16:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
[16:52] <mathiaz> nijaba: and send the url to the ubuntu-server@ ?
[16:52] <nijaba> mathiaz: will do
[16:52] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
[16:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
[16:52] <dendrobates> my two cents: we are trying to produce a enterprise level product.
[16:52] <mathiaz> anything else on this subject?
[16:52] <dendrobates> and this feels consumer-like.
[16:53] <dendrobates> most people using ubuntu server are sys admins and will not want this feature.
[16:53] <dendrobates> but, it might be useful to some.
[16:54] <mathiaz> dendrobates: may be - so we should make sure it's easy to disable it
[16:54] <dendrobates> no, we should make it optional to begin with.
[16:54] <dendrobates> why annoy the many to help the few.
[16:54] <mathiaz> I think we should first come up with the list of tips and we can discuss then the best to integrate it afterwards
[16:55] <mathiaz> all right - let's move on
[16:55] <mathiaz> as we're running out of time
[16:56] <mathiaz> I'll skip the open discussion item
[16:56] <mathiaz> and jump straight to the last item (most important)
[16:56] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:56] <mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
[16:57] <sommer> sure
[16:57] <alex_muntada> ok
[16:57] <jmdault> ok
[16:57] <zul> maybe
[16:57] <zul> i mean yes
[16:57] <ttx_> wfm
[16:58] <mathiaz> ok - great - thanks all for attending
[16:58] <mathiaz> go wild on the last round of merges
[16:58] <mathiaz> and see you all on #ubuntu-server or next week, same time, same place
[16:58] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.
[17:00] <sommer> later all
[17:58]  * manjo waves
[17:58] <bjf> o/
[17:59]  * cooloney stands up
[17:59]  * lieb looks about
[17:59]  * smb looks at his watch
[17:59]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00]  * apw enters stage left
[18:00] <smb> Ok, seems like time to begin
[18:00] <smb> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is smb.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <smb> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
[18:00] <smb> * rtg confer with the platform team about how to upgrade from Jaunty
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
[18:00]  * jjohansen waves
[18:01] <rtg_> smb: I think its done. I've uploaded thenew flavours
[18:01] <smb> ok
[18:01] <smb> * rtg confer with the installer team about choosing the right i386 kernel
[18:01] <rtg_> done as well
[18:01] <smb> * ogasawara to look at /staging drivers in hwdb
[18:01] <ogasawara> smb: done, email sent to kernel-team ml.  but action me with getting the hwdb script pushed to buildscripts.git.  I first need to check with abel if the new api is available.
[18:01] <rtg_> final details may be pending, depends on CD space
[18:01] <smb> I think that was done as well
[18:02] <smb> And finally
[18:02] <smb> * rtg and apw kernel boot msg cleanup
[18:02] <rtg_> in progress
[18:02] <rtg_> or rather, no progress
[18:02] <smb> Ok, so I'll keep that on the list
[18:02] <smb> On next to my dump
[18:03] <apw> yeah we need to put a plan together for that, not had a chance
[18:03] <smb> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
[18:03] <smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, in process)
[18:03] <smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, in process)
[18:03] <smb>             2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[18] with 0/11 verifications!
[18:03] <smb>             LRM 2.6.24.18-24.1 (proposed) [18] with 1/1 verifications. OK
[18:03] <smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, in process)
[18:03] <smb>             2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[18] 3/24 verifications!
[18:03] <smb>             LBM 2.6.27-14.17 (proposed)[8] with 1/2 verifications
[18:03] <smb>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[18] with 2/2 verifications. OK
[18:03] <smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, in process)
[18:03] <smb>             No proposed package pending.
[18:03] <apw> [ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
[18:03] <smb> Currently Hardy and Intrepid are a bit of a problem as not too much testing/verifications get in
[18:04] <smb> [ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
[18:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
[18:04] <smb> apw,  :-P
[18:04] <apw> nasty bot
[18:04] <smb> [TOPIC] Karmic Status
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status
[18:04] <manjo> smb, will there be a new ISO cut for jaunty server edition ?
[18:05] <smb> Usually for non-LTS there are no new ISOs. I am not sure server is different
[18:05] <apw> karmic is still waiting on the .31-rc1 release when the merge window is closed.  updates for the flavours and some config stuff has gone in and been released
[18:05] <rtg_> Karmic - new i386 flavours generic-pae in last upload. dropped i386 server.
[18:05] <smb> slangasek, rtg_ Is that true?
[18:05] <rtg_> smb: AFAIK
[18:06] <smb> Ok
[18:06] <rtg_> i.e., no new CDs for non-LTS releases
[18:06] <manjo> rtg_, we might have to rethink server editions
[18:06] <manjo> coz of new HW enable-ment
[18:06] <apw> on the KMS stuff the GEM/PAE issues appear resolved, with the changes merged already to mainline
[18:07] <amitk> manjo: and even for LTS they are at pre-defined a milestone intervals (8.04.1, 8.04.2, etc.)
[18:07] <rtg_> manjo: its just a matter of timing
[18:07] <manjo> k
[18:07] <apw> most things otherwise seem to be progressing
[18:07] <slangasek> smb: there will not be a new ISO for jaunty server; this SRU would be of benefit to netboot only
[18:08] <rtg_> smb: I think thats all the important stuff for Karmic
[18:08] <smb> rtg_, Ok thanks
[18:08] <slangasek> i.e., yes, non-LTS releases don't get new ISOs
[18:08] <smb> slangasek, Thanks too for the clarification
[18:08] <smb> slangasek, I guess if there are special needs you would be the authority to ask?
[18:09] <rtg_> slangasek is our special needs guy :)
[18:09] <manjo> slangasek, especially if the install does not work
[18:09] <manjo> slangasek, due to missing drivers etc
[18:09] <smb> manjo, But I guess you should put that offline
[18:10] <smb> [TOPIC] ARM Tree
[18:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree
[18:10] <manjo> ok
[18:10] <bjf> Still working on babbage 1 patches. I've asked for help from Amit.
[18:10] <bjf> Don't have a feel, right now, when the babbage 1 changes will be finished but that's all I'm working on
[18:10] <bjf> Given the pain to go to .30, am worried about the pain to go to .31
[18:10] <apw> where are they coming from?
[18:10] <amitk> freescale
[18:10] <apw> sorry what level are they rebasing from
[18:11] <amitk> for 2.6.28
[18:11] <amitk> *from
[18:11] <amitk> jaunty kernel
[18:12] <smb> Seems to be it?
[18:12] <bjf> i'm done
[18:12] <apw> much of the delta for .31 will arrive next week when the merge window closes
[18:12] <amitk> done here
[18:12] <smb> Probably for the next topic there is also not that much
[18:12] <smb> [TOPIC] Netbook Trees
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Netbook Trees
[18:13] <apw> i saw some stuff go out at the end of last week.  some fixes cking pushed
[18:13] <apw> the patch review was nearly done i think but not yet complete
[18:13] <apw> thats all i know
[18:13] <smb> Ok, the rest will wait till next week
[18:13] <cking> not much activity this week on that
[18:13] <smb> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
[18:13] <smb> * Regressions
[18:13] <awe> wait...
[18:13] <awe> i have a netbook question...
[18:14] <smb> awe, ok, shoot
[18:14] <awe> the new netbook branch was created for jaunty...
[18:14] <awe> yet we're thinking karmic will be used
[18:14] <awe> instead...
[18:14] <awe> is there an eta for a netbook branch for karmic?
[18:14] <apw> yes, we made it then you said it was likely you might use karmic
[18:14] <rtg_> awe: so, we'll likely do the same for karmic
[18:15] <apw> the last thing we were told there was no patches needed on karmic?
[18:15] <awe> ok
[18:15] <apw> but if you have them then we would do the same there, it'd be quicker this time now its done one
[18:15] <apw> once
[18:15] <awe> right now true
[18:15] <awe> ie. we have no patches currently
[18:15] <rtg_> awe: besides, we should wait until karmic settles before having to start the rebase treadmill
[18:16] <awe> rtg_: ok
[18:16] <awe> then maybe we should do at least 1 rel on the jaunty netbook branch?
[18:16] <apw> awe sounds liek we should take this offline and figure out what you need
[18:17] <awe> apw: ok
[18:17] <cking> I'd say so.
[18:17] <apw> smb, action us
[18:17] <smb> [ACTION] apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty
[18:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty
[18:17] <apw> ta
[18:17] <awe> cool.  thanks
[18:17] <ogasawara> smb:  back to regressions, I added 2 regression-release and 2 regression-potential bugs to the list this week.  As usual, you and apw have them assigned.
[18:17] <smb> Ok, so ogasawara I guess you... do :)
[18:18] <ogasawara> today's bug day stats are as follows:
[18:18] <smb> Ok, yep. So
[18:18] <smb> * Bug Day Report
[18:18] <ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
[18:18] <ogasawara> Fix Released    4 (↑4)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Won't Fix   30 (↑30)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Invalid 1 (↑1)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> In Progress 2 (↑2)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Incomplete  194 (↓29)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Triaged 26 (↓4)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Confirmed   21 (↓1)
[18:18] <ogasawara> New 22 (↓3)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
[18:18] <ogasawara> Fix Released    0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Won't Fix   0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Invalid 1 (↑1)
[18:18] <ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (↑0)
[18:18] <ogasawara> In Progress 1 (↑1)
[18:19] <ogasawara> Incomplete  2 (↑2)
[18:19] <ogasawara> Triaged 46 (↓4)
[18:19] <ogasawara> Confirmed   0 (↑0)
[18:19] <ogasawara> New 0 (↑0)
[18:19] <smb> Ok, thanks for the update
[18:19] <apw> a bit early to have anything interesting on the bug day
[18:19] <ogasawara> apw: yup, but a good start so far
[18:20] <smb> Yeah, I likely will get to it rather tomorrow
[18:20] <apw> i think thats likely for a number of people as we have travellers and busy people
[18:20] <bjf> no-one should be surprised but I'm not doing bug day until the babbage changes are done
[18:21] <smb> Understandable
[18:21] <manjo> ogasawara, how is the community responds to bug day ?
[18:21] <cking> and I'm snowed by other panic work today
[18:21] <ogasawara> manjo: andres still is contributing each time
[18:21] <smb> Thanks Andres
[18:21] <ogasawara> manjo: unfortunately we haven't been able to gather more
[18:21] <apw> we need a plan on how to get more community involvement in triage etc
[18:22] <apw> ogasawara, how is the arsenal working out, is it deployed fully yet?
[18:22] <ogasawara> apw: almost, still tweaking the processing of new bugs - I keep hitting corner cases
[18:23] <apw> when are we expecting to call it 'ready'?
[18:23] <ogasawara> apw: hoping by next week, I want to send an email when it's running
[18:23] <cooloney> apw, i plan to advise this bug day event in our Chinese kernel mail list and some LUG mail list
[18:23] <manjo> ogasawara, you think we can get jono's help in getting a word out to the community ?
[18:23] <apw> cooloney, sounds good
[18:24] <cooloney> i set some bugs to "won't fix" before I left home
[18:24] <ogasawara> manjo: yes, I'll make a note to send them an email
[18:24] <ogasawara> smb: maybe action me for sending email to community team
[18:24]  * jono looks up :)
[18:25] <smb> [ACTION] ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help
[18:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help
[18:25] <jono> I will wait for the mail :)
[18:25] <jono> happy to help!
[18:25] <apw> :)
[18:25] <smb> :)
[18:25] <manjo> jono u rock man
[18:25] <jono> manjo, no, you rock :)
[18:25] <cooloney> thanks jono
[18:26] <jono> np :)
[18:26] <smb> Ok, before we rock the place. More for that?
[18:26] <cooloney> guys, can we talk about android tree here?
[18:26] <smb> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[18:26] <smb> cooloney, Yep
[18:27] <cooloney> smb, coolio
[18:27] <cooloney> as you know, i sent out an android tree email
[18:27] <cooloney> anybody has comments?
[18:28] <apw> i think your basic plan sounded reasonable
[18:28] <apw> more detail than that is probabally something for a more focused forum
[18:29] <apw> as a general comment the work going on for allowing newer kernels no older
[18:29] <apw> releases should give you a lot of what you need to allow more than one kernel type to exist
[18:30] <manjo> I hear that google will not endorse andriod for netbooks... anyone hear this rumor ?
[18:30] <cooloney> apw, i will setup a tree firstly and add debian directory as bjf said
[18:30] <cooloney> manjo, no idea about that.
[18:30] <apw> yep sounds reasonable, i have done some of that for the mainline builds, so i can help out there
[18:31] <smb> Ok, guess the rest can be done offline
[18:31] <smb> Anything else for open discussion?
[18:31] <cooloney> apw, thanks, i plan to do it soon, so will need you guys help later
[18:32]  * smb looks at the silence
[18:32] <manjo> smb, u chairing next meeting ?
[18:32] <smb> [TOPIC] Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)
[18:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)
[18:32] <smb> I guess you just volunteered...
[18:33]  * manjo looks around to see who is "you"
[18:33] <smb> manjo, The only one standing :)
[18:33] <bjf> I have no problem doing it
[18:33]  * apw calls that a plan
[18:33] <smb> bjf, Ok, thanks
[18:34] <smb> So bjf will be next chair
[18:34] <smb> thanks all
[18:34] <bjf> l8r
[18:34] <smb> #endmeeting
[18:34] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:34.
[22:53]  * greg-g yawns
[22:54]  * boredandblogging throws cold water on greg-g
[22:54] <czajkowski> aww did you wake him
[22:54] <czajkowski> :p
[22:55] <greg-g> hey now, no hazing the new members!
[22:56] <nhandler> Before the meeting begins, I would like to congratulate the new members of the Americas Regional Membership Board
[22:56] <beuno> :)
[22:56] <greg-g> thank you nhandler
[22:57] <kiko> heh
[22:57] <boredandblogging> hello
[22:58] <bratsche> Hi.
[22:58] <zehrique> hi, there!
[23:00] <pleia2> ok folks, meeting time :)
[23:00] <kiko> yay
[23:00] <bratsche> :)
[23:00] <pleia2> kiko: you're up! intorduce yourself, give links to your pages :)
[23:01] <kiko> hello there
[23:01] <kiko> I'm kiko
[23:01] <kiko> I run the Launchpad project for Canonical
[23:01] <kiko> I am also an occasional contributor to Ubuntu -- both in QA, in working with upstream and in fixing some minor bugs
[23:02] <kiko> let me dig up some links to allow people to review me
[23:02] <kiko> or people can ask me questions while I paste
[23:02] <Nafallo> I've heard of this guy named kiko...
[23:02] <bratsche> heh
[23:02] <nhandler> While he is doing that, I would like to say that kiko has been very helpful with all Launchpad related issues that people in the community have had. He has also helped implement several of the ideas that have come from the community.
[23:02] <pleia2> kiko: future plans?
[23:02] <kiko> most of my contributing is indirectly through Launchpad
[23:03] <ajmitch> Nafallo: funnily enough, so have I :)
[23:03] <jpds> I recall meeting him three times... +1 from me!
[23:03] <kiko> but I have been to multiple UDS sessions and discussed features and their execution plans
[23:03] <kiko> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syncropated/+bug/200357
[23:03] <kiko> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/208405
[23:03] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/~kiko
[23:04] <nhandler> kiko: Any plans to go the MOTU route in the future?
[23:04] <kiko> nhandler, I wish I had enough time to work on any /launchpad/ code, let alone Ubuntu code
[23:04] <kiko> if that situation ever changes
[23:04] <kiko> then yeah, I'd definitely like it
[23:04] <greg-g> kiko: just for the record, how long have you been involved with Launchpad?
[23:05] <kiko> greg-g, I joined the team in January 2005
[23:05] <effie_jayx> alright, ready to vote
[23:05] <boredandblogging> +1
[23:06] <greg-g> +1 for me for the continued commitment to the project and obvious contributions made in the past.
[23:06] <kiko> I'll be around this community for a long time still
[23:06] <pleia2> +1 excellent work kiko :)
[23:06] <beuno> +1 - I've seen kiko do a lot of work to improve Ubuntu through Launchpad, through writing How To's, and participating in UDS discussions
[23:06] <kiko> Canonical or none
[23:06] <Nafallo> kiko: was there even a launchpad before you? ;-)
[23:06] <Technoviking> +1 here
[23:06] <pedro_> +1 from here
[23:06] <effie_jayx> +1
[23:06] <zehrique> +1
[23:06] <kiko> Nafallo, heh, there was actually -- but not publically visible apart from Rosetta and some of the Code imports stuff
[23:07] <beuno> and kiko can add himself to the ~ubuntumembers team  :p
[23:07] <pleia2> kiko: congrats! welcome :)
[23:07] <greg-g> beuno: :)
[23:07] <pedro_> lol
[23:07] <effie_jayx> kiko: it's about time
[23:07] <kiko> heh
[23:07] <kiko> thanks :)
[23:07] <greg-g> welcome, kiko
[23:07] <Nafallo> yay! finally kiko can have kiko@ubuntu.com! :-D
[23:07] <nhandler> Congratulations kiko !
[23:07] <kiko> wooo
[23:07] <kiko> thanks guys
[23:07] <zehrique> congratulations, kiko!
[23:07] <bratsche> woot!
[23:07] <kiko> I can't believe I made it! and at midnight of my first day of vacation
[23:08] <pleia2> :)
[23:08] <bratsche> haha
[23:08] <kiko> heh
[23:08] <bratsche> Now your vacation begins. :)
[23:08] <beuno> kiko, enjoy your vacation
[23:08] <Nafallo> kiko: so those sets of flipflops we talked about... ;-)
[23:08] <pleia2> zehrique: you're up :)
[23:08] <ajmitch> kiko: well done :)
[23:08] <kiko> woo!
[23:09] <pleia2> zehrique: you about?
[23:09] <pleia2> ok, we'll move on the the next
[23:09] <zehrique> Well, wiki page is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenriquePMachado
[23:10] <pleia2> oh hey :)
[23:10] <zehrique> My profile on launchpad is at: https://edge.launchpad.net/~zehrique
[23:10]  * nixternal is here
[23:11] <pleia2> zehrique: can you give us a quick introduction?
[23:11] <zehrique> If you notice, my karma has decreased because of that implementation done this year. But I'm still contributing with translations.
[23:12] <zehrique> I make part of the team of translators/reviewers for pt_BR on Ubuntu
[23:12] <zehrique> When I have free time, I use to give support on the #ubuntu-br channel, here on freenode.
[23:12] <zehrique> I am a GNOME translator into the pt_BR since may/2008 and got a reviewer level since january/2009.
[23:12] <zehrique> I am official translator for LXDE Desktop Environment and admin of the main project site and wiki. I'm moderator for the Portuguese section of the LXDE Forum too.
[23:13] <pleia2> wow, great :)
[23:13] <zehrique> Was invited to make part of Lubuntu team.
[23:14] <pleia2> zehrique: how long have you been working with Ubuntu? (I see you started using it with 5.04)
[23:15] <zehrique> Yes! I've been working with it since 6.06 version. But contributing since 8.04 version.
[23:15] <greg-g> zehrique: I assume part of your future plans is to continue with translations, but do you see yourself changing focus in the future?
[23:16] <beuno> zehrique, what do you feel you still want to accomplish?
[23:17] <zehrique> Well, now I'm working with Webdevelopment. If in the near future I could help in this area, I'll be very glad to help.
[23:17]  * nixternal has love now, I see 'kubuntu-docs' translations \o/
[23:17] <nixternal> wow, you are an all around translator it seems, not just GNOME and LXDE...awesome!
[23:18] <zehrique> Well, I am in love with translations. :P
[23:19] <zehrique> But coding is one of my plans too.
[23:19] <beuno> zehrique, how involved are you in your LoCo team?
[23:19] <nixternal> I can see :)  that is awesome and a part of the reason that *buntu rocks like it does...all I can say there is "Thank You"
[23:19] <nixternal> I have a soft spot in my heart for translators :)
[23:19] <zehrique> Thanks, nixternal
[23:19] <greg-g> zehrique: do you have any ideas of how the translation process could be improved? (note: I don't have any experience in that area)
[23:20] <zehrique> Well, I think that the process is good and by now I think it may not be changed.
[23:20] <greg-g> zehrique: ok, I was just curious. :) thanks
[23:20]  * kiko waves -- gotta skip out for the night
[23:21] <pleia2> excellent translations work, zehrique :) +1
[23:21] <beuno> +1 here as well. Translations rock Ubuntu.
[23:21] <greg-g> +1
[23:21] <Technoviking> +1
[23:21] <zehrique> Thanks
[23:22] <nixternal> +1
[23:22] <nhandler> Congratulations zehrique !
[23:22] <bratsche> woot, congrats zehrique!
[23:22] <zehrique> Woooah! Thanks, guys! :)
[23:22] <zehrique> I' so proud of being a member of Ubuntu Community!
[23:23] <beuno> who's next?   kdub?
[23:23] <kdub> hello everyone :)
[23:24] <beuno> kdub, hold on a sec
[23:24] <beuno> we need one more vote  :)
[23:24] <zehrique> ok
[23:24] <nixternal> looks like we have quorum anyways, we can probably move on
[23:25] <pedro_> +1 from here too , congrats zehrique
[23:25] <pleia2> congrats zehrique :)
[23:25] <greg-g> ok, now we can move on to kdub :)
[23:26] <kdub> alright, cool
[23:26] <kdub> so i'm kdub/ Kevin DuBois
[23:26] <kdub> wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinDuBois
[23:26] <kdub> i'm a coder/blogger
[23:26] <kdub> i've contributed to compiz, ffmpeg, a bit to vlc
[23:27] <kdub> i'm currently working a lot with ffmpeg for the summer of code
[23:27] <zehrique> good
[23:28] <kdub> but i'm also easily distracted, and have a lot of little projects like http://kdubois.net/?p=408
[23:28] <beuno> kdub, you have an impressive list of contributions to open source projects
[23:28] <kdub> or http://kdubois.net/?p=319
[23:28] <beuno> could you tell us a little but about the ubuntu-specific things you've done?
[23:28] <kdub> thanks beuno
[23:29] <kdub> well, i can package things
[23:29] <pedro_> kdub: any plans on becoming part of the MOTU team?
[23:29] <kdub> and i've given a speech to a group in michigan about ubuntu before
[23:29] <kdub> pedro_: i currently have more interest in the kernel team, actually
[23:30] <boredandblogging> kdub: active in the LoCo?
[23:31] <kdub> i chat in the irc room a fair amount
[23:31] <greg-g> I can verify that ;)
[23:32] <kdub> thanks greg-g :P
[23:33] <greg-g> kdub: I really like all of your upstream work, it definitely helps make the floss world better
[23:33] <beuno> kdub, what do you plan to work on in the future?
[23:33] <nixternal> jcastro or any other michigan freakz in here for some testimonials?
[23:33] <kdub> i really hope to move into kernel work, or deeper X server work
[23:34] <beuno> kdub, so you're keen on continuing to do upstream work?
[23:35] <boredandblogging> ready to vote?
[23:35] <kdub> beuno: yes, and i usually package things my stable things to distribute them
[23:36] <pleia2> kdub: I think you're certainly on the right track, but I'd really like to see you excel in some of the more Ubuntu-specific work that you have planned :)
[23:36] <beuno> so, I'm +0. It's hard to vote, because of all the awesome work kdub's done, but I think he still needs to do some more work in Ubuntu, maybe packaging or working with the Ubuntu kernel team
[23:37] <boredandblogging> agree with pleia2, good work upstream, but more Ubuntu related work would be good
[23:37] <greg-g> kdub: I agree with pleia2, you definitely are making great contributions to FLOSS, but adding in more Ubuntu stuff would be great. +0 but I want to see you back here at the end of the summer! :)
[23:37] <greg-g> there is a +0 hidden above from me
[23:38] <pleia2> same +0
[23:38] <nixternal> I would like to see more bug work due to the development background, but from having known kdub for a bit and working with him during packaging, and knowing his personality, I will give a +1
[23:38] <pedro_> it's same opinion here, I'd love to see more involvement on the Ubuntu community and I'm looking forward for your work on the kernel team but for now +0
[23:39] <Technoviking> +0 for me also
[23:39] <nixternal> kdub: doesn't look like you will make this time around, but dude I will work with you and so will the michigan folks to get you there...cool?
[23:39] <kdub> well, thanks nixternal , sounds good
[23:39] <nixternal> groovy dude
[23:39] <pleia2> mdeslaur: you're up!
[23:39] <mdeslaur> oh, cool :)
[23:39] <bratsche> kdub: If you're interested in getting involved in some development tasks in Ubuntu, check out the "Death by 100 Papercuts" project.. it would be great to have someone of your expertise hacking in there.
[23:40] <mdeslaur> Hi everyone, I'm Marc Deslauriers
[23:40] <nixternal> bratsche: great point! thanks!
[23:40] <mdeslaur> I am a member of the Ubuntu Security team. My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers
[23:40] <mdeslaur> yes, I am a Canonical employee :P
[23:41]  * ajmitch has a great appreciation for those who get those security fixes out to us :)
[23:41] <mdeslaur> So, if you're running Ubuntu, a third of the security updates from packages in main are from me.
[23:41] <boredandblogging> nice
[23:41] <nhandler> I can vouch for that based on the emails I have been receiving regarding the security updates
[23:42] <Nafallo> mdeslaur: wow. I didn't realise you were that strict with regards to who does what :-)
[23:42] <pleia2> indeed, fantastic work mdeslaur :)
[23:42] <nixternal> mdeslaur: what about Xubuntu and/or Kubuntu security stuff? I take it you cover that as well?
[23:42] <mdeslaur> nixternal: yes
[23:42] <mdeslaur> also, I started doing some proactive security work also
[23:42] <nixternal> groovy! so now I don't have to bother kees all of the time :p
[23:42] <nixternal> on the Kubuntu side that is
[23:42] <mdeslaur> nixternal: hehe :)
[23:43] <ajmitch> I'm guessing that you just work in main & leave security in universe to people like nixternal?
[23:43] <nixternal> bad idea
[23:43] <mdeslaur> I am currently adding a new config option to the aide package to filter out false alerts from package and security updates from the daily email reports
[23:43] <mdeslaur> I actively work on updates in main, but I sponsor people who submit debdiffs for packages in universe
[23:44] <nixternal> mdeslaur: MOTU or Core Dev in the future?
[23:44] <mdeslaur> nixternal: both, hopefully
[23:44] <nixternal> if so, what are you waiting for? :p
[23:45] <mdeslaur> nixternal: just going through the proper way of doing things
[23:45] <nixternal> understandable...we need to let it be known that you don't need to be an Ubuntu Member to go for MOTU or Ubuntu Universe Contributor, as it is given to you upon getting either previous classification :)
[23:45] <ajmitch> it is possible to just go straight to core dev
[23:46] <boredandblogging> mdeslaur: are you active in a LoCo?
[23:46] <nixternal> ajmitch: shush! we need some universe love dude
[23:46] <ajmitch> nixternal: sorry
[23:46] <mdeslaur> boredandblogging: I attend the local release parties, but don't participate in organizing them
[23:46] <beuno> mdeslaur, how long have you been using Ubuntu?
[23:47] <mdeslaur> since edgy
[23:47] <mdeslaur> sorry
[23:47] <mdeslaur> not edgy
[23:47] <mdeslaur> before dapper
[23:47] <mdeslaur> breezy!
[23:47] <mdeslaur> that's what I was trying to remember :)
[23:47] <nixternal> lol
[23:47] <pleia2> hehe
[23:47] <beuno> well, you had me at hello.  +1 for all the awesome security work
[23:47] <nellery> hehe
[23:47] <ajmitch> just a newcomer then :)
[23:47] <nixternal> beuno: !@)*#)@* GHAHAHAH
[23:48] <pleia2> awesome work mdeslaur, thanks for those security alerts! +1
[23:48] <boredandblogging> +1
[23:48] <greg-g> +1 and thanks for keeping me secure! :)
[23:48] <nixternal> +1 from me, want to see a Kubuntu security report first thing after this meeting :p
[23:48] <Technoviking> +1, great security work,
[23:48] <mdeslaur> hehe, thanks guys
[23:48] <nhandler> Congrats mdeslaur
[23:48] <pleia2> welcome mdeslaur :)
[23:48] <mdeslaur> cool :)
[23:48] <Nafallo> congrats mdeslaur :-)
[23:48] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: you're up
[23:48] <BryanLBasil> Great.
[23:49] <ajmitch> kees: about 30 seconds too late to cheer on mdeslaur :)
[23:49] <mdeslaur> hehehe
[23:49] <kees> congratz mdeslaur !
[23:49] <kees> :)
[23:49] <mdeslaur> :)
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> My name is Bryan Basil, and I am a translator and "customer support representative" as I like to call it for the Ubuntu project.
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> :-)
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> I do a lot more, like HowTos, and advocacy projects.
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> I also like to create Ubuntu artwork.
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> My wiki page is here: wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> Sorry, I'll give it to you in link format.  D'oh.
[23:50] <BryanLBasil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan
[23:51] <BryanLBasil> Even though I've only been active for about 3 months, my karma on Launchpad has exceeded 9000.
[23:51] <BryanLBasil> http://launchpad.net/~bryanlbasil
[23:51] <BryanLBasil> There are tons of links on my wiki page, so if you want to see more, and can't find it on there, just ask me here.
[23:52] <nixternal> BryanLBasil: what have you done for SchoolTool? I jsut ran across that on LP
[23:52] <BryanLBasil> Translating.
[23:52] <nixternal> 3 months active and you have that much work already documented?
[23:52] <nixternal> serious?
[23:52] <beuno> BryanLBasil, I see you do spanish translations. Have you thought about applying as an official translator?
[23:53] <BryanLBasil> beuno: I am currently in the review process.
[23:53] <BryanLBasil> If you look on the official Spanish Translators page, I am under "pending".
[23:53] <BryanLBasil> nixternal: :-)
[23:54] <BryanLBasil> I understand I am at a disadvantage,
[23:54] <nixternal> whoa, you have only been on LP for just over a month....you have a really nice karma rating for answers, your forums stats are pimp, your artwork is groovy, your howtos are good....so my next questions is....do you have a life at all? :P
[23:54] <BryanLBasil> because of how short my time has been, but I believe that so far I have been really active.
[23:54] <pleia2> BryanLBasil: I see a lot of explaining what the teams do in your app, but not specifically what you've done for teams like the Georgia LoCo and the Marketing team, can you expand a bit?
[23:54] <beuno> BryanLBasil, I see some translations which don't follow the agreed terminology for the spanish group
[23:55] <BryanLBasil> There's a lot to respond to, can we take a second and answer these really quickly before any more are asked?
[23:55] <pleia2> of course :)
[23:55] <BryanLBasil> :-)
[23:55] <BryanLBasil> nixternal: Thanks a lot... :P
[23:56] <Technoviking> BryanLBasil: sustained work is one of the key elements for Ubuntu Membership, and only 3 months concerns me.
[23:56] <BryanLBasil> pleia2: For the Georgia LoCo, the mailing list has been pretty dead, but I have spoken with JonReagan (president) and Nick Ali about working with them on projects like the Atlanta Linux Fest.
[23:57] <Technoviking> BryanLBasil: What do you have plan in the long term
[23:57] <BryanLBasil> beuno: Yes, this has been brought up to me by the president of the team.
[23:57] <beuno> BryanLBasil, great work in the Launchpad answer tracker
[23:57] <BryanLBasil> Technoviking: I understand your concern, and am hoping that my work is enough in itself and can prove my commitment.
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> Technoviking: Roadmap is all I want to plan out so far, only tackling realistic things.
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> If I wrote too many things,
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> it would sound fantastical, and things people might look forward to
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> would drop before they started.
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> I plan on making my roadmap come true, and soon.
[23:58] <BryanLBasil> beuno: Thanks a lot. :-)
[23:59] <beuno> BryanLBasil, I think you're off to an amazing start. If you keep this up solid 6 months, I think you'll fly right through. But 3 months is too little, so -1 from me today