[14:18] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: what's supposed to be in 0.6?
[14:27] <Keybuk_> 0.5.3, plus a few fixes to the util/ stuff, plus some migration tools Debian want
[14:30] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: hmm. almost doesn't seem worth a minor bump
[14:31] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: side note, I've done the style cleanup on the state transfer patch. It still needs test cases though.
[14:34] <Keybuk_> it's more of a statement of intent
[14:34] <Keybuk_> 0.5 was tagged as a development series, while 0.3 was stable
[14:34] <Keybuk_> calling it 0.6 means it can be labelled stable
[14:35] <sadmac2> woohoo!
[14:36] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: are we still on target for a 1.0/0.10 at LPC?
[14:50] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: yes
[14:51] <sadmac2> cool
[16:06] <sadmac2> notting: petr should probably be in here
[16:09] <Keybuk_> petr?
[16:09] <plautrba> Keybuk_: yes
[16:10] <Keybuk_> ah hi :-)
[16:10] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: since I'm not a dev engineer anymore, petr will be the RHEL 6 Upstart maintainer
[16:10] <Keybuk_> it was more of a "who is Petr?" kind of question, but you pretty much answered that :-)
[16:10] <Keybuk_> plautrba: pleased to meet you!
[16:10] <plautrba> Keybuk_: hi, nice to meet to too 
[16:10] <plautrba> *you
[16:11] <Keybuk_> RHEL 6 and Fedora?
[16:12] <plautrba> for now it's for rhel6 but i would like to involve in fedora too
[16:14] <sadmac2> plautrba: where are you out of? I don't think we even met.
[16:15] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: you'll be still doing the Fedora packages?
[16:15] <Keybuk_> when is RHEL 6 scheduled for? what kind of timeframe?
[16:15] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: yes
[16:15] <notting> Keybuk_: *cough*
[16:15] <Keybuk_> notting: you can't say? :p
[16:15] <Keybuk_> or you have no idea?
[16:15] <plautrba> sadmac2: i am from brno
[16:16] <sadmac2> plautrba: ah. cool
[16:16] <notting> Keybuk_: the former
[16:16] <plautrba> sadmac2: i'm sure we haven't met yet
[16:16] <Keybuk_> I'd strongly prefer you were able to run 0.6 in RHEL 6
[16:16] <Keybuk_> since that'll be the stable version that Ubuntu and Debian will also be using
[16:16] <sadmac2> notting: ^^yeah, we need to look into this
[16:16] <Keybuk_> and the version I'm trying to bribe SuSE into using
[16:17] <Keybuk_> (instead of using 0.3 or 0.5)
[16:17] <notting> Keybuk_: unlikely as it stands now, given the format changes
[16:17] <Keybuk_> notting: 0.6 is basically compatible
[16:17] <Keybuk_> it's me declaring the 0.5 version "better" than the 0.3 version, and fixing up the last few bits that aren't the same
[16:17] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: you say it'll be compatible with 0.10. Does that mean 0.10 is keeping start/stop on?
[16:17] <notting> ? 0.5 wasn't compatible with 0.3.
[16:18] <Keybuk_> notting: it's mostly compatible, a few bits that aren't will be fixed for 0.6
[16:18] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: 0.10 will read the 0.6 jobs, and apply some logic to making them work
[16:18] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: I may simply still support "stop on" to allow easier transition
[16:18] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: how will it know which one is which? folders? new job_version stanza?
[16:19] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: 0.10 jobs use "while/on", 0.6 jobs use "start on"
[16:19] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: either can use exec foo with no other info in the file
[16:19] <notting> Keybuk_: including file locations, or is that a lost cause?
[16:21] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: and both will behave the same way in that case
[16:21] <sadmac2> notting: shouldn't be hard to make it support the old location as well as the new
[16:21] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: true.
[16:22]  * sadmac2 goes to feed himself
[16:22] <Keybuk_> notting: I'd like to get everyone on broadly the same page
[16:22] <ion_> keybuk: Karmic will get 0.6 instead of 0.10?
[16:22] <notting> Keybuk_: what's your schedule?
[16:23] <Keybuk_> ion_: Karmic will get 0.6, 0.10 is due for plumbers so that's "too late" for Karmic
[16:23] <Keybuk_> and will go into Karmic+1
[16:23] <Keybuk_> Debian will have 0.6 in unstable when it's released
[16:23] <Keybuk_> and will move to 0.10 in September for squeeze (the next release)
[16:23] <ion_> Ok. Will Karmic get a startup based on 0.6 (if that’s even possible) or still sysvrc?
[16:23] <Keybuk_> notting: 0.6.0 this week, 0.10.0 for plumbers
[16:23] <Keybuk_> ion_: yes, partly
[16:24] <notting> Keybuk_: if we don't actually use it for anything native beyond rcS... what does 0.6 buy me? :)
[16:24] <Keybuk_> notting: support
[16:24] <Keybuk_> cf. your recent crasher bug with 0.3.x
[16:24] <Keybuk_> which already didn't effect 0.5
[16:29] <ion_> How are you planning to support 0.6 jobs in 0.10? How about /{etc,lib}/init/$formatversion/ and have separate parsers for both trees (and yet another separate piece of code to yield 0.10-compatible jobs based on the 0.6 parser’s result) in order to not contaminate the 0.10 code with 0.6 stuff? Too idealistic? :-)
[16:30] <ion_> One could then easily rid the codebase of 0.6 stuff in n years when nobody uses 0.6 anymore.
[16:43] <Keybuk_> separate parser code is probably the easiest way
[17:41] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: if you still have a directory change in mind, it might actually simplify things. Folder x for 0.6 jobs, folder y for 0.10
[17:46] <ion_> /lib/init/0.6/jobs, /lib/init/0.10/jobs, /lib/init/42.0/jobs, or call the 0.6 format “0”, the 0.10 format “1” and the 42.0 format “2” and use /lib/init/{0,1,2}/jobs
[17:46] <sadmac2> ion_: I don't think we're doing them in /lib
[17:49] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: why do you have better candy in the UK?!
[17:49]  * sadmac2 eats an aero bar
[17:51] <Keybuk_> a not unreasonable idea might be just to have 0.6 jobs in /etc/event.d <g>
[17:51] <Keybuk_> err
[17:51] <Keybuk_> yeah I do mean that
[17:51] <Keybuk_> sadmac2: you're in the UK?
[17:51] <Keybuk_> ion_: you appear to have misspelled /etc
[17:54] <ion_> keybuk: I thought the distro-supplied jobs were supposed to go to /lib and the user jobs or overrides to /etc at some point.
[18:00] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: no. Friend found them at an import store.
[18:00] <sadmac2> Keybuk_: but I now have one more reason to come.
[18:01] <Keybuk_> ion_: no
[18:01] <sadmac2> ion_: it never felt right to me. If anything I'd say distro jobs would go in /share, if there were such a thing.
[18:01] <Keybuk_> jobs go in /etc
[18:01] <Keybuk_> they're configuration files
[18:01] <ion_> Alright
[21:06] <soren> ion_: Perhaps you're thinking of udev rules?
[21:07] <ion_> No
[21:07] <sadmac2> soren: no, there was discussion of upstart keeping its config in /lib (the reasoning being that job definitions are "like udev rules"), but it was canned
[21:08] <soren> ion_, sadmac2: Oh, I see.
[21:08]  * soren crawls back under his rock