/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/24/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

psyke83hi14:45
kwwiihi14:47
psyke83kwwii: hey, I haven't heard back from you re: the theme update, any news?14:47
kwwiipsyke83: yeah, I have been testing it and was going to put it in this week...got side-tracked by some UNR work14:48
kwwiiI like the simple progress bars bettr :)14:48
psyke83kwwii: sure, no prob14:48
psyke83did you notice that the metacity was updated, though? I previously used a hack in Human-Murrine and Human-Clearlooks to keep the original metacity colour, but it caused incompatibilities. The "Humanity" code has those hacks removed, and the metacity was adjusted14:49
psyke83this means that the Human Clearlooks needs a very slight tweak (otherwise the metacity will look too light), shall I send it to you?14:50
kwwiipsyke83: to be honest, I only am using the gtkrc you gave me14:50
kwwiiyes, please do14:50
psyke83kwwii: the version from the forum is newer, and has some other slight fixes. I'll send all the updates in an email in a little while14:51
psyke83I'll also revert the scrollbar to normal14:51
kwwiipsyke83: killer, thanks14:51
kwwiiwhat do you mean by normal?14:51
psyke83ah wait, sorry14:52
psyke83I misread what you wrote a minute ago, I thought you said that you preferred the simple scrollbars better14:52
kwwiihehe...no, I meant the progress bars without the stripes14:52
psyke83yeah, that's fine ;)14:53
psyke83anyway I'll send everything to you in a little while ;)14:53
kwwiicool14:53
kwwiiI have a new package with some other changes underway14:53
psyke83there's a small problem with the scrollbars, did you notice? When the trough border is >0, Firefox has a little problem when displaying text boxes14:55
psyke83it's a bug only in firefox and it's minor, but it's a bug nevertheless14:55
kwwiiI hadn't noticed that14:56
psyke83there's an upstream bug report, I'll mention it when I send the updates14:57
kwwiijust trying to reproduce it...not sure what to look for, really :p14:58
psyke83I was gonna send a screenshot, but I'm not running Ubuntu right now. Here's an example (not from my theme): https://bug471789.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=35504014:59
psyke83see the grey box underneath the frames?14:59
kwwiiright14:59
kwwiireally freaky14:59
psyke83it's a problem with xulrunner and it's not fixed in firefox 3.5rc2 yet, unfortunately15:00
psyke83maybe if I bring it to the attention to the ubuntu-mozilla folks, they can take a look15:00
kwwiidefinitely not a bad idea to mention15:01
kwwiipsyke83: really wierd, that only happens on certain sites/code...I cannot find a page :p15:11
kwwiianyway, a trough >0 looks bad15:12
psyke83brb15:13
psyke83kwwii: shall we just set the trough-border back to 0, then?15:20
psyke83apart from the firefox bug, I quite liked the trough15:20
kwwiipsyke83: yes, I think so15:24
kwwiiif we set it, it needs at least 2 I think15:24
kwwiiso either 2 or 0 if you ask me15:24
kwwiiwe can at elast try it out this way and see what people think15:24
psyke83kwwii: ah I forgot that you're using an older revision. I had set it to 215:25
psyke83let's decide after I send the update - if you still don't like, we can easily set the trough to 015:26
kwwiipsyke83: no, I had set it from 0 to 2 on my own to test that bug15:26
psyke83ok15:26
psyke83if this bug didn't exist in firefox, would you prefer to keep the trough at 2, then?15:27
coz_hey guys.. I keep getting email my memebership is about to expire...who takes care of that here?15:59
SiDimembership to ?16:09
SiDithe launchpad group ?16:09
coz_SiDi,  I suppose  I havet kept up with things.. as part of the art team16:15
SiDicoz_: it sends expiration emails on a regular basis to clear inactive members16:17
coz_SiDi,  well I am not exactly inactive ,, i have been a memeber for years  but the email wants me to contact one of you guys and I did send a message to someone but if necessary I will join again16:19
SiDican you show me the message ? sounds suspicious :|16:19
coz_sure hold on16:19
coz_SiDi,    http://pastebin.com/mfb308c916:21
SiDihm, well, i guess you shall wait for them :p16:30
SiDii think they sent such mails to clean the group a little16:31
psyke83kwwii: sent the updates to your email16:31
kwwiipsyke83: cool, I will keep an eye out16:32
coz_SiDi,  well I dont need cleaned up :)    but i will try contacting again16:34
SiDikwwii: did you send expiration mails to inactive LP group members ?16:36
kwwiiSiDi: no, it is automatic16:58
kwwiiand it is there to clean out the cruft16:58
kwwiiotherwise how would I know how long something went unused and whether a person still wants to be on the list?16:58
thorwilyou don't have a database in your head?16:59
kwwiinot yet16:59
knome%)16:59
knomekewl, he's planning on one17:00
knomehow does the api work?17:00
kwwiiask oracle17:00
knomeheh17:00
michotehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=face-monkey.png17:52
michotefeedback?17:52
knomeit's... a monkey17:52
knomei personally find the two smallest sizes a bit too blurry17:53
knomeand maybe there is a bit too much detail on the mouth/eyes area comparing to the orange head, which is detailless.17:53
knomeand the eyes itself look a bit scary on the biggest size. i don't know if that's a goal, though.17:54
knomebut the shape and the overall idea/how it's crafted looks good.17:54
thorwilmichote: it looks like a monkey/smiley crash. either part is well done, but the combination is a bit unsettling17:56
knomeactually it looks a bit like a lion. :)17:56
thorwilmichote: i think you should try to stay with the smiley base color. try to make the ears part of the smiley shape17:57
thorwiland make sure the face is part of the smiley surface17:57
thorwilgotta run, bbl17:57
michote;) I think its very hard  to get an monkey which fits an buttonstyle17:57
michotethorwil: you want a yellow monkey? It'll look more like a lion17:59
michoteknome: would smaler eyes look better?18:04
knomei don't know id it's the size but the reflection more.18:05
knomeyou need something else than a vertical gradient18:05
knomedon't know how that would look in the small sizes again18:05
michoteI wanted to fit the eye-style of the other smileys, but maybe it's really crashing18:07
SiDithis monkey makes me think about carrots18:09
knomeSiDi, lol18:09
knomemichote, the monkey is otherwise way more realistic than the smileys18:10
knomemichote, that's why the eyes don't fit in that good.18:10
michoteSiDi: http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/mattnyc82/Baby_ginger_monkey.jpg18:13
kwwiithat looks like my son18:14
michotethan I would try to simplify the monkey-face18:15
michote:D18:15
macvrkwwii: too cruel! hehe18:15
michotehttp://www.mbl.edu/news/press_releases/images/cute.monkey.jpg18:15
SiDiaw this photo18:15
SiDithe baby monkey looks like an hazelnut18:16
knome...18:16
knomei read that it made you feel like a hazelnut ...18:17
michotecarrots and hazelnut?18:17
knomemichote, SiDi is a bit crazy, don't mind him18:19
macvrmichote: try using brown... orange makes it look like the monkey has carotenemia ;p18:19
michote:D18:20
michoteAny Ideas how to integrate the face into the smiley surface?18:21
knomesame color, only brightness changes?18:24
knomehave to go18:25
knomesee you18:25
SiDigive him more little cheeks and bigger ears, and add him some hair on the top of the head ? D:18:25
michoteSiDi: Good Idea, but this would be even more detail :P18:28
SiDimichote: at least on the big sizes :D18:45
knomein general i think it's a bad idea to have lots of detail in big sizes and then a relly simplified small icon19:57
psyke83kwwii: I sent an update re: the trough border bug to your email. He wants us to upload the theme as-is, and that'll put more pressure on the Mozilla folks to fix the bug in Firefox20:36
psyke83*He=asac20:36
kwwiiyeah, that sounds like asac :p20:36
psyke83;)20:36
kwwiiI didn't expect him to do too much20:37
psyke83he said that he'll escalate the bug20:37
kwwiicool20:37
psyke83Cimi confirmed in the report today that it's not a murrine bug (which is obvious, as all the other engines have the same problem)20:37
kwwiiyeah, firefox is freaky20:37
kwwiiI figured that out yesterday again20:37
psyke83;)20:38
kwwiitrying to fix a wierd bug with how it simply ignores the icon lookup spec20:38
psyke83you started working on KDE then migrated to working on GNOME, right? Why don't you lobby for GNOME 3, Firefox etc. to be re-coded to use the QT framework??20:38
psyke83;)20:38
kwwiilol, all true but I doubt that will happen any time soon20:39
psyke83We can rename it QNOME, I guess, I dunno20:39
kwwiialthough I did have a talk with mark about it once20:39
kwwiiporting gnome to qt20:39
SiDiqt, meh20:39
kwwiiI still do a bit of work on kde though20:40
kwwiipsyke83: just read your last email...will do20:48
psyke83kwwii: cool, thanks20:49
kwwiithe thanks, as always, go to you...you've stuck with this stuff, I am amazed20:50
kwwii;)20:50
kwwiiand thankful20:51
kwwiiyou rock ;)20:51
psyke83you too ;)20:51
kwwiinow that we have a whole design team, I have a lot more time for specific projects, I am hoping to start my own new theme sometime soon20:52
psyke83I'll be looking forward to seeing the results20:53
kwwiiwell, it is kinda wierd but I would like to see if it is possible20:54
kwwiiessentially it is a dark theme based on carbon fiber but I want the tecture to fade in and out around the buttons, etc20:55
kwwiifor karmic we will have at least some windows with a client-side window decoration (so no metacity)20:55
kwwiithat should be interesting20:55
psyke83and this will be workable with GTK in its current form?20:55
kwwiiyepp20:55
kwwiithere is a ppa with the current stuff somewhere20:56
kwwiicody russell is working on it20:56
kwwiiie the desktop experience team20:56
kwwiibut I doubt it will be something for all apps20:56
kwwiieven though at this time we are selling it as such20:56
kwwiithe problems come when the app dies20:56
kwwiithe current infrastructure doesn't allow gtk to know/do anything about those events20:57
kwwiicompiz did it previously20:57
kwwiior the pop-up20:57
kwwiibut if the gtk app itself is dead the theme won't know it20:57
kwwiibut anyway20:57
psyke83I see, sounds interesting anyway20:58
kwwiiyepp20:58
SiDikwwii: what are those windows with client-side window decoration ?20:58
kwwiiSiDi: just that20:59
SiDikwwii: to my ears it sounds like a big failure :|20:59
kwwiino metacity to be seen20:59
kwwiithe whole window is gtk20:59
kwwiiso you can click to move the window anywhere outside of a button, etc20:59
kwwiino need to draw the window decoration differnt from the window anymore21:00
psyke83kwwii, similar to how alt-clicking works right now?21:00
* SiDi doesn't get it21:00
psyke83I use alt+left-mouse to move windows frequently on my laptop (as it's more of a pain to grab the titlebar with a touchpad)21:00
kwwiipsyke83: exactly21:02
macvr_MMA_: hi... could you reply to the mail > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010812.html22:41
macvrthe/this/22:42
_MMA_macvr: I haven't formed an opinion on it really. I'm not likely to soon either. (next week or so) And technically, I think that if you don't put in a icon for all sizes it will render blank icons. Still have to look.22:44
_MMA_macvr: I have *ALOT* going on. In addition to the fact that things aren't totally solid with the set as-is, I'm not inclined to add more 'till what we have is sorted.22:45
macvr_MMA_: i understand... :) but just an FYI before you make a decision...you can see the rendering problem in daniel's edit... but this doesnt arise with the scalable icons... I pretty sure the blank icons dont occur, I'v checked while using the icons , and as you have also seen in the screenshot  dashua,James had posted the icons display well22:48
macvranyway... take care...22:48
_MMA_Be positive. Let me know for sure.22:48
macvr_MMA_: i am sure...100% positive22:51
darkmatter_MMA_: you don't need all sizes for icons. and it can work to your advantage as well22:51
macvr_MMA_: even the hi-color has only 1 size , 22px... but still works :)22:52
darkmatterI've hacked up the themes to fix unsightly scaling in the panels (at an app level too). I have a panel locked into 16pix and 24 pix icons only (for tray apps and applets as well) tis sweet22:53
_MMA_darkmatter: Part of my concern was rendering blank icons. Wanting all of the sizes I also see as a bit of future-proofing. And I'll just punch someone if I get a bug report from someone using the panel at like 48px and there's some issue.22:53
_MMA_macvr: I'll consider the chat here and try to give a definitive answer by this weeks end.22:55
macvr_MMA_: :) ... i'm sure you wont have bugs... thanx22:56
darkmatteryou wont get blanks. however, if you have something weird like a missing 22px and have a 32px them you will get an oversize (like in a toolbar or whatnot). but in general rendering is non-issue. it looks theme - icon - closest size. so you don't get blanks. if no icon is available in theme, it'll go to inheritance then falback22:56
_MMA_Sayz the Ubuntu n00b. ;)22:56
macvr_MMA_: ;p22:56
_MMA_darkmatter: No no. Blanks in the rendering of the set. I have a script that cuts all the sizes from the 1 file.22:57
darkmatter_MMA_: ahh.. should still be none-issue though22:58
macvr_MMA_: just no need to render , when you have a single set, makes your job easier ;)22:58
darkmatterone canvas is pretty foolproof22:58
* macvr having a headache with papercuts!22:59
_MMA_macvr: No... My issues are often elsewhere. Incorrect layer or file naming. Cruft from not vacuuming defs. Lots of wiki edits.23:00
macvr_MMA_: I usually vacuum defs , 3 times before I submit :)23:01
macvrwhile open & close the svg23:01
_MMA_Layer anf file names are also important. Those 3 things are the most important technical things for artists to keep in mind.23:02
_MMA_s/anf/and23:02
_MMA_Oh. Uno mas. (1 more) Making sure the icons are /on/ the correct layer.23:03
macvr_MMA_: since This has to be done on a single size , i Used only one layer... and naming is not a problem, since i tested all the nm-signal icons :)23:05
macvri didnt use the template23:05
darkmatterlol. that would be a seriously d'oh blunder. I mean. I'd really question the intelligence of anyone that used the wrong layer :P23:05
_MMA_Didn't? What did you use?23:05
macvr128px document size...23:06
_MMA_darkmatter: It's happened. And others have edited the plates. Where the object names are also important. Hence, use the template and don't mess with the technicals.23:07
_MMA_But we all make mistakes.23:07
macvr^ like my number 1 card?23:07
* _MMA_ can't remember.23:07
macvrfor when i said use 1 , in kwwii's cards23:08
* _MMA_ is burnt from constant 12hr days and needs food/rest. bbl.23:08

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