[14:45] <psyke83> hi
[14:47] <kwwii> hi
[14:47] <psyke83> kwwii: hey, I haven't heard back from you re: the theme update, any news?
[14:48] <kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I have been testing it and was going to put it in this week...got side-tracked by some UNR work
[14:48] <kwwii> I like the simple progress bars bettr :)
[14:48] <psyke83> kwwii: sure, no prob
[14:49] <psyke83> did you notice that the metacity was updated, though? I previously used a hack in Human-Murrine and Human-Clearlooks to keep the original metacity colour, but it caused incompatibilities. The "Humanity" code has those hacks removed, and the metacity was adjusted
[14:50] <psyke83> this means that the Human Clearlooks needs a very slight tweak (otherwise the metacity will look too light), shall I send it to you?
[14:50] <kwwii> psyke83: to be honest, I only am using the gtkrc you gave me
[14:50] <kwwii> yes, please do
[14:51] <psyke83> kwwii: the version from the forum is newer, and has some other slight fixes. I'll send all the updates in an email in a little while
[14:51] <psyke83> I'll also revert the scrollbar to normal
[14:51] <kwwii> psyke83: killer, thanks
[14:51] <kwwii> what do you mean by normal?
[14:52] <psyke83> ah wait, sorry
[14:52] <psyke83> I misread what you wrote a minute ago, I thought you said that you preferred the simple scrollbars better
[14:52] <kwwii> hehe...no, I meant the progress bars without the stripes
[14:53] <psyke83> yeah, that's fine ;)
[14:53] <psyke83> anyway I'll send everything to you in a little while ;)
[14:53] <kwwii> cool
[14:53] <kwwii> I have a new package with some other changes underway
[14:55] <psyke83> there's a small problem with the scrollbars, did you notice? When the trough border is >0, Firefox has a little problem when displaying text boxes
[14:55] <psyke83> it's a bug only in firefox and it's minor, but it's a bug nevertheless
[14:56] <kwwii> I hadn't noticed that
[14:57] <psyke83> there's an upstream bug report, I'll mention it when I send the updates
[14:58] <kwwii> just trying to reproduce it...not sure what to look for, really :p
[14:59] <psyke83> I was gonna send a screenshot, but I'm not running Ubuntu right now. Here's an example (not from my theme): https://bug471789.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=355040
[14:59] <psyke83> see the grey box underneath the frames?
[14:59] <kwwii> right
[14:59] <kwwii> really freaky
[15:00] <psyke83> it's a problem with xulrunner and it's not fixed in firefox 3.5rc2 yet, unfortunately
[15:00] <psyke83> maybe if I bring it to the attention to the ubuntu-mozilla folks, they can take a look
[15:01] <kwwii> definitely not a bad idea to mention
[15:11] <kwwii> psyke83: really wierd, that only happens on certain sites/code...I cannot find a page :p
[15:12] <kwwii> anyway, a trough >0 looks bad
[15:13] <psyke83> brb
[15:20] <psyke83> kwwii: shall we just set the trough-border back to 0, then?
[15:20] <psyke83> apart from the firefox bug, I quite liked the trough
[15:24] <kwwii> psyke83: yes, I think so
[15:24] <kwwii> if we set it, it needs at least 2 I think
[15:24] <kwwii> so either 2 or 0 if you ask me
[15:24] <kwwii> we can at elast try it out this way and see what people think
[15:25] <psyke83> kwwii: ah I forgot that you're using an older revision. I had set it to 2
[15:26] <psyke83> let's decide after I send the update - if you still don't like, we can easily set the trough to 0
[15:26] <kwwii> psyke83: no, I had set it from 0 to 2 on my own to test that bug
[15:26] <psyke83> ok
[15:27] <psyke83> if this bug didn't exist in firefox, would you prefer to keep the trough at 2, then?
[15:59] <coz_> hey guys.. I keep getting email my memebership is about to expire...who takes care of that here?
[16:09] <SiDi> membership to ?
[16:09] <SiDi> the launchpad group ?
[16:15] <coz_> SiDi,  I suppose  I havet kept up with things.. as part of the art team
[16:17] <SiDi> coz_: it sends expiration emails on a regular basis to clear inactive members
[16:19] <coz_> SiDi,  well I am not exactly inactive ,, i have been a memeber for years  but the email wants me to contact one of you guys and I did send a message to someone but if necessary I will join again
[16:19] <SiDi> can you show me the message ? sounds suspicious :|
[16:19] <coz_> sure hold on
[16:21] <coz_> SiDi,    http://pastebin.com/mfb308c9
[16:30] <SiDi> hm, well, i guess you shall wait for them :p
[16:31] <SiDi> i think they sent such mails to clean the group a little
[16:31] <psyke83> kwwii: sent the updates to your email
[16:32] <kwwii> psyke83: cool, I will keep an eye out
[16:34] <coz_> SiDi,  well I dont need cleaned up :)    but i will try contacting again
[16:36] <SiDi> kwwii: did you send expiration mails to inactive LP group members ?
[16:58] <kwwii> SiDi: no, it is automatic
[16:58] <kwwii> and it is there to clean out the cruft
[16:58] <kwwii> otherwise how would I know how long something went unused and whether a person still wants to be on the list?
[16:59] <thorwil> you don't have a database in your head?
[16:59] <kwwii> not yet
[16:59] <knome> %)
[17:00] <knome> kewl, he's planning on one
[17:00] <knome> how does the api work?
[17:00] <kwwii> ask oracle
[17:00] <knome> heh
[17:52] <michote> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=face-monkey.png
[17:52] <michote> feedback?
[17:52] <knome> it's... a monkey
[17:53] <knome> i personally find the two smallest sizes a bit too blurry
[17:53] <knome> and maybe there is a bit too much detail on the mouth/eyes area comparing to the orange head, which is detailless.
[17:54] <knome> and the eyes itself look a bit scary on the biggest size. i don't know if that's a goal, though.
[17:54] <knome> but the shape and the overall idea/how it's crafted looks good.
[17:56] <thorwil> michote: it looks like a monkey/smiley crash. either part is well done, but the combination is a bit unsettling
[17:56] <knome> actually it looks a bit like a lion. :)
[17:57] <thorwil> michote: i think you should try to stay with the smiley base color. try to make the ears part of the smiley shape
[17:57] <thorwil> and make sure the face is part of the smiley surface
[17:57] <thorwil> gotta run, bbl
[17:57] <michote> ;) I think its very hard  to get an monkey which fits an buttonstyle
[17:59] <michote> thorwil: you want a yellow monkey? It'll look more like a lion
[18:04] <michote> knome: would smaler eyes look better?
[18:05] <knome> i don't know id it's the size but the reflection more.
[18:05] <knome> you need something else than a vertical gradient
[18:05] <knome> don't know how that would look in the small sizes again
[18:07] <michote> I wanted to fit the eye-style of the other smileys, but maybe it's really crashing
[18:09] <SiDi> this monkey makes me think about carrots
[18:09] <knome> SiDi, lol
[18:10] <knome> michote, the monkey is otherwise way more realistic than the smileys
[18:10] <knome> michote, that's why the eyes don't fit in that good.
[18:13] <michote> SiDi: http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/mattnyc82/Baby_ginger_monkey.jpg
[18:14] <kwwii> that looks like my son
[18:15] <michote> than I would try to simplify the monkey-face
[18:15] <michote> :D
[18:15] <macvr> kwwii: too cruel! hehe
[18:15] <michote> http://www.mbl.edu/news/press_releases/images/cute.monkey.jpg
[18:15] <SiDi> aw this photo
[18:16] <SiDi> the baby monkey looks like an hazelnut
[18:16] <knome> ...
[18:17] <knome> i read that it made you feel like a hazelnut ...
[18:17] <michote> carrots and hazelnut?
[18:19] <knome> michote, SiDi is a bit crazy, don't mind him
[18:19] <macvr> michote: try using brown... orange makes it look like the monkey has carotenemia ;p
[18:20] <michote> :D
[18:21] <michote> Any Ideas how to integrate the face into the smiley surface?
[18:24] <knome> same color, only brightness changes?
[18:25] <knome> have to go
[18:25] <knome> see you
[18:25] <SiDi> give him more little cheeks and bigger ears, and add him some hair on the top of the head ? D:
[18:28] <michote> SiDi: Good Idea, but this would be even more detail :P
[18:45] <SiDi> michote: at least on the big sizes :D
[19:57] <knome> in general i think it's a bad idea to have lots of detail in big sizes and then a relly simplified small icon
[20:36] <psyke83> kwwii: I sent an update re: the trough border bug to your email. He wants us to upload the theme as-is, and that'll put more pressure on the Mozilla folks to fix the bug in Firefox
[20:36] <psyke83> *He=asac
[20:36] <kwwii> yeah, that sounds like asac :p
[20:36] <psyke83> ;)
[20:37] <kwwii> I didn't expect him to do too much
[20:37] <psyke83> he said that he'll escalate the bug
[20:37] <kwwii> cool
[20:37] <psyke83> Cimi confirmed in the report today that it's not a murrine bug (which is obvious, as all the other engines have the same problem)
[20:37] <kwwii> yeah, firefox is freaky
[20:37] <kwwii> I figured that out yesterday again
[20:38] <psyke83> ;)
[20:38] <kwwii> trying to fix a wierd bug with how it simply ignores the icon lookup spec
[20:38] <psyke83> you started working on KDE then migrated to working on GNOME, right? Why don't you lobby for GNOME 3, Firefox etc. to be re-coded to use the QT framework??
[20:38] <psyke83> ;)
[20:39] <kwwii> lol, all true but I doubt that will happen any time soon
[20:39] <psyke83> We can rename it QNOME, I guess, I dunno
[20:39] <kwwii> although I did have a talk with mark about it once
[20:39] <kwwii> porting gnome to qt
[20:39] <SiDi> qt, meh
[20:40] <kwwii> I still do a bit of work on kde though
[20:48] <kwwii> psyke83: just read your last email...will do
[20:49] <psyke83> kwwii: cool, thanks
[20:50] <kwwii> the thanks, as always, go to you...you've stuck with this stuff, I am amazed
[20:50] <kwwii> ;)
[20:51] <kwwii> and thankful
[20:51] <kwwii> you rock ;)
[20:51] <psyke83> you too ;)
[20:52] <kwwii> now that we have a whole design team, I have a lot more time for specific projects, I am hoping to start my own new theme sometime soon
[20:53] <psyke83> I'll be looking forward to seeing the results
[20:54] <kwwii> well, it is kinda wierd but I would like to see if it is possible
[20:55] <kwwii> essentially it is a dark theme based on carbon fiber but I want the tecture to fade in and out around the buttons, etc
[20:55] <kwwii> for karmic we will have at least some windows with a client-side window decoration (so no metacity)
[20:55] <kwwii> that should be interesting
[20:55] <psyke83> and this will be workable with GTK in its current form?
[20:55] <kwwii> yepp
[20:56] <kwwii> there is a ppa with the current stuff somewhere
[20:56] <kwwii> cody russell is working on it
[20:56] <kwwii> ie the desktop experience team
[20:56] <kwwii> but I doubt it will be something for all apps
[20:56] <kwwii> even though at this time we are selling it as such
[20:56] <kwwii> the problems come when the app dies
[20:57] <kwwii> the current infrastructure doesn't allow gtk to know/do anything about those events
[20:57] <kwwii> compiz did it previously
[20:57] <kwwii> or the pop-up
[20:57] <kwwii> but if the gtk app itself is dead the theme won't know it
[20:57] <kwwii> but anyway
[20:58] <psyke83> I see, sounds interesting anyway
[20:58] <kwwii> yepp
[20:58] <SiDi> kwwii: what are those windows with client-side window decoration ?
[20:59] <kwwii> SiDi: just that
[20:59] <SiDi> kwwii: to my ears it sounds like a big failure :|
[20:59] <kwwii> no metacity to be seen
[20:59] <kwwii> the whole window is gtk
[20:59] <kwwii> so you can click to move the window anywhere outside of a button, etc
[21:00] <kwwii> no need to draw the window decoration differnt from the window anymore
[21:00] <psyke83> kwwii, similar to how alt-clicking works right now?
[21:00]  * SiDi doesn't get it
[21:00] <psyke83> I use alt+left-mouse to move windows frequently on my laptop (as it's more of a pain to grab the titlebar with a touchpad)
[21:02] <kwwii> psyke83: exactly
[22:41] <macvr> _MMA_: hi... could you reply to the mail > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010812.html
[22:42] <macvr> the/this/
[22:44] <_MMA_> macvr: I haven't formed an opinion on it really. I'm not likely to soon either. (next week or so) And technically, I think that if you don't put in a icon for all sizes it will render blank icons. Still have to look.
[22:45] <_MMA_> macvr: I have *ALOT* going on. In addition to the fact that things aren't totally solid with the set as-is, I'm not inclined to add more 'till what we have is sorted.
[22:48] <macvr> _MMA_: i understand... :) but just an FYI before you make a decision...you can see the rendering problem in daniel's edit... but this doesnt arise with the scalable icons... I pretty sure the blank icons dont occur, I'v checked while using the icons , and as you have also seen in the screenshot  dashua,James had posted the icons display well
[22:48] <macvr> anyway... take care...
[22:48] <_MMA_> Be positive. Let me know for sure.
[22:51] <macvr> _MMA_: i am sure...100% positive
[22:51] <darkmatter> _MMA_: you don't need all sizes for icons. and it can work to your advantage as well
[22:52] <macvr> _MMA_: even the hi-color has only 1 size , 22px... but still works :)
[22:53] <darkmatter> I've hacked up the themes to fix unsightly scaling in the panels (at an app level too). I have a panel locked into 16pix and 24 pix icons only (for tray apps and applets as well) tis sweet
[22:53] <_MMA_> darkmatter: Part of my concern was rendering blank icons. Wanting all of the sizes I also see as a bit of future-proofing. And I'll just punch someone if I get a bug report from someone using the panel at like 48px and there's some issue.
[22:55] <_MMA_> macvr: I'll consider the chat here and try to give a definitive answer by this weeks end.
[22:56] <macvr> _MMA_: :) ... i'm sure you wont have bugs... thanx
[22:56] <darkmatter> you wont get blanks. however, if you have something weird like a missing 22px and have a 32px them you will get an oversize (like in a toolbar or whatnot). but in general rendering is non-issue. it looks theme - icon - closest size. so you don't get blanks. if no icon is available in theme, it'll go to inheritance then falback
[22:56] <_MMA_> Sayz the Ubuntu n00b. ;)
[22:56] <macvr> _MMA_: ;p
[22:57] <_MMA_> darkmatter: No no. Blanks in the rendering of the set. I have a script that cuts all the sizes from the 1 file.
[22:58] <darkmatter> _MMA_: ahh.. should still be none-issue though
[22:58] <macvr> _MMA_: just no need to render , when you have a single set, makes your job easier ;)
[22:58] <darkmatter> one canvas is pretty foolproof
[22:59]  * macvr having a headache with papercuts!
[23:00] <_MMA_> macvr: No... My issues are often elsewhere. Incorrect layer or file naming. Cruft from not vacuuming defs. Lots of wiki edits.
[23:01] <macvr> _MMA_: I usually vacuum defs , 3 times before I submit :)
[23:01] <macvr> while open & close the svg
[23:02] <_MMA_> Layer anf file names are also important. Those 3 things are the most important technical things for artists to keep in mind.
[23:02] <_MMA_> s/anf/and
[23:03] <_MMA_> Oh. Uno mas. (1 more) Making sure the icons are /on/ the correct layer.
[23:05] <macvr> _MMA_: since This has to be done on a single size , i Used only one layer... and naming is not a problem, since i tested all the nm-signal icons :)
[23:05] <macvr> i didnt use the template
[23:05] <darkmatter> lol. that would be a seriously d'oh blunder. I mean. I'd really question the intelligence of anyone that used the wrong layer :P
[23:05] <_MMA_> Didn't? What did you use?
[23:06] <macvr> 128px document size...
[23:07] <_MMA_> darkmatter: It's happened. And others have edited the plates. Where the object names are also important. Hence, use the template and don't mess with the technicals.
[23:07] <_MMA_> But we all make mistakes.
[23:07] <macvr> ^ like my number 1 card?
[23:07]  * _MMA_ can't remember.
[23:08] <macvr> for when i said use 1 , in kwwii's cards
[23:08]  * _MMA_ is burnt from constant 12hr days and needs food/rest. bbl.