[00:00] Hey rickspencer3, robert_ancell. [00:00] TheMuso, hi [00:00] hi TheMuso [00:01] guys ready? [00:01] Indeed. [00:01] this should be brief [00:01] any agenda items? [00:01] to add? [00:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-23 [00:01] no [00:01] robert_ancell: ? [00:02] no [00:02] k [00:03] so the meeting is mostly announcements this week, but some discussion regarding paper cut bugs [00:03] announcements: [00:03] pitti: Reminder: do you merges (https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html) pitti: spec status Karmic Sprint is in Dublin [00:03] * TheMuso is already sorting out flights for that. [00:03] oops, that should have been .. [00:03] pitti: Reminder: do you merges (https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html) [00:03] pitti: Reminder: do you merges (https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html) [00:04] ah forget it [00:04] * rickspencer3 can't copy and paste today :P [00:04] * awe remembers [00:04] hi awe [00:04] back for more? [00:04] heh [00:04] TheMuso: robert_ancell: are your specs all reviewed by Martin? [00:04] was looking for some launchpad help and realized y'all had the east coast mtg in progress [00:04] rickspencer3, yes [00:05] east coast of Australia, that is [00:05] All of mine have gone through a review, and one is approved. The audi oone still needs reviewing after changes needed to be made. Unfortunately I haven't really had the community help on this with some bits that I h oped for. [00:05] TheMuso: did you get your work items on the blueprint? [00:05] rickspencer3: Yes. [00:05] In the whiteboard. [00:05] TheMuso: what kind of help do you need? Review? [00:06] about 30 work items went missing from the burndown chart last night: [00:06] http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png [00:06] pitti will fix it tomorrow I suppose [00:06] awe: That and someone to fill in about volume scaling stuff, I don't really understand that. [00:07] awe: can you help? [00:07] on the review part yes. [00:07] on the volume scaling stuff i'll offer what knowledge i have [00:08] thanks! [00:08] ACTION: awe to review Audio spec and to comment on volume scaling [00:09] ok [00:09] TheMuso: please send me a link to the spec [00:09] Ken is tracking U1 status here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/DesktopIntegration/Status [00:09] awe: just a sec. [00:10] awe: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-audio-experience [00:10] kenvandine is also expecting the plan from DXE eow [00:11] "the plan" being their work items and what they plan to do in their iterations [00:11] robert_ancell: TheMuso: any questions, or should I keep going? [00:11] go on [00:11] keep going, I've shot ahead again. :p [00:12] bryce says that x is on track wrt to quality, and ahead wrt to packaging [00:12] Nice to hear. [00:12] also that the kernel changes seem have more or less fixed the issues with i965 in Jaunty [00:13] * TheMuso mostly has NVIDIA hardware here so won't get to enjoy some of the niceties coming our way eg KMS. [00:13] when KMS is turned on, he expects a flood of bugs [00:13] TheMuso: yes, that is unfortunate ... perhaps next release [00:13] Yeah. [00:13] unless the -nouvea guys pull a rabbit out of the hat for you [00:13] +1 [00:14] they are working on KMS iirc [00:14] also, there's this edgers stuff that is very popular [00:14] so you can get a taste of the latest and proposed by installing the xorg-edgers ppa [00:15] rickspencer3, so tempted but will keep away from that in the interest of having a working machine :) [00:15] lol [00:15] in the meantime, here are a couple of links that are interesting: [00:15] http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/PkgList/versions_current.html [00:15] http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html [00:16] essentially bryce had invented a similar tool to what you guys have been using to track GNOME updates [00:16] you might want to check that out and see if there is some cross pollination that might be helpful [00:17] so this brings us to paper cut bugs [00:17] the upshot was this: [00:17] TheMuso, are you in the regional membership board for Ubuntu - I want to blog about versions but I need to be a member [00:17] * rickspencer3 waits [00:17] robert_ancell: Yes I am, but I think you'd be best getting membership by the usual channels. [00:18] TheMuso, I need a testimonial [00:18] (according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership) [00:18] THat I can do. [00:18] TheMuso, thanks. rickspencer3 done interrupting :) [00:19] no interuption, that's what this is for [00:19] back to versions: there was some discussion about ... [00:19] having one page for packages on the CD, and another page for packages that someone has expressed on interest in [00:20] then community members could ping seb and ask for foo package to be added to the tracking list [00:20] That was the idea of the (+) sign. I was initially considering a tag system where you toggle which packages are shown by tag (e.g. karmic, jaunty, ubuntu-desktop) [00:21] mmm [00:21] back to paper cut bugs? [00:21] sure [00:21] ok [00:21] so .. [00:21] 1. some engineers are being flooded with related bug mail [00:22] ignore the bug mail because the design team is picking 10 bugs per week to fix, so [00:22] 2. Look for the paper cuts mail each week, and pick something to fix, if there is a good match for you [00:23] however, if it looks like more than about 4 hours of work for you, you can either: [00:23] just comment on the amount of work, and leave it for someone who has the time or could do it faster [00:23] There is one audio related bug that is marked as a paper cut, I'll probably work on that sooner than the round its marked for, which I guess is fine. [00:23] or if you think it is non-trivial for anybody to fix, you can set it to invalid [00:23] TheMuso: yes, that is fine [00:24] 3. Paper cut bugs should be prioritized at about the same level as spec work [00:24] 4. Please expect about half a day every two weeks, at least [00:24] if you have excess capacity, by all means, fix more paper cuts [00:24] [00:25] questions, thoughts regarding paper cuts? [00:25] Not from me. [00:26] k [00:26] any other business?> [00:26] no [00:27] ok then, that's a wrap! [00:27] no [00:27] Great. [00:27] rickspencer3: Now that I have a calendar, we need to schedule a time to talk about my goals for this 6 months for PDR. [00:27] thanks guys [00:27] thanks awe [00:27] rickspencer3: np [00:27] TheMuso: yes [00:27] please do so, your morning/my evening [00:28] rickspencer3: Ok will get on that ASAP. [00:28] rickspencer3: I also have a question for you whenever you're done with TheMuso [00:28] awe: sure [00:28] shoot [00:29] how do bugs in lp get linked to upstream bug trackers? [00:29] i couldn't find the obvious button and/or control to do it [00:29] awe, I can answer that [00:29] hehe [00:29] go ahead bryce [00:29] it's kind of non-intuitive, but... [00:29] bryce: have you done this before? [00:29] click "Also affects project" [00:29] ok [00:29] rickspencer3, hah, like daily! [00:30] i see now [00:30] awe, if you're lucky someone will have specified the default upstream project, and you can just paste in the URL to the upstream bug [00:30] lp non-intuitive. nah.. [00:30] awe, if not, then try typing in the name of the upstream bug, or use the Choose link to search for it [00:31] bryce: yea, it looks like i can just paste the url [00:31] cool [00:31] if it's not in there, then you can register the upstream project - sort of a pain in the ass, but you only have to do it once. [00:31] awesome, then you're set [00:31] awe, a couple things I like to do [00:32] shoot [00:32] 1. in the upstream bug paste in a link to the ubuntu bug, so you can cross-reference later on [00:32] already did that... [00:32] 2. tell the original bug reporter to subscribe to the upstream bug, so they can answer questions directly [00:32] (if the reporter is !you) [00:32] ok [00:32] the upstream's in bugzilla [00:32] ;( [00:33] otherwise you'll be cut-and-pasting questions and answers back and forth, which is extraordinarily mind numbing [00:33] oh, i guess there's a cc list [00:33] yeah, but in bugzilla you can't add arbitrary people to the cc [00:33] ;( [00:33] guess it's a spam thing *shrug* [00:33] bryce: is that "registered upstream project" available in python-launchpadlib? [00:33] well, i've verified that the *code* is busted, so i don't think there'll be a lot more conversation [00:34] rickspencer3, yes, it is called a "watch" in launchpadlib speak [00:34] nice [00:34] so for my triaging button, if watch is not null, can I use python-launchpadlib to create the new bug? [00:35] almost [00:35] actually lpapi allows having *multiple* watches [00:35] so you'd want to check if num(watches) == 0 [00:36] in any case, you can use new bug and just copy the info over? [00:36] in theory [00:36] okay [00:36] so I can make seb128's "upstream" button that way [00:36] and if there is no watch, make a picker for the project [00:37] and perhaps create a watch for the package while I;m at it [01:14] * TheMuso sighs. Another new piece of code from Lennart that pulseaudio depends on, i.e pulse by lennart depends on another new piece of code from Lennart. [01:18] * TheMuso sighs again. This piece of code needs 2.6.31 or better. :S [01:55] Yingying_Zhao, sorry I was late to the call === Richie is now known as YDdraigGoch === WelshDragon is now known as YDdraigGoch [06:48] Good morning [06:52] bryce: btw, how do you collect feedback about xorg-edgers? people crying in #u-devel when it breaks? [06:52] bryce: (e. g. I dist-upgrade daily, and usually don't have much trouble with it) [06:52] bryce: btw, Jesse sent a patch to fix suspend/resume with KMS, works fine \o/ I applied it to i915 locally for now [06:52] good to see some bug fixing upstream again [07:12] pitti, good to hear [07:12] pitti, we accept bug reports about problems in xorg-edgers [07:12] okay [07:12] indeed, those are the easiest bugs for us to upstream, so we encourage people with troubles to post them to launchpad and we push them from there [07:12] I filed one in the past, but it got fixed upstream fast [07:12] see? :-) [07:13] well, it got fixed before I even filed it :) [07:13] ahh, even better [07:13] if I take current live cd, it will boot with kms on intel hw? [07:13] bryce: anyway, seems that most troubles that I still have are with suspend, everything else works just fine [07:13] Zdra, tomorrow's daily live cd should I think [07:13] pitti, great to hear [07:13] bryce: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21719 is my last one [07:13] Freedesktop bug 21719 in Driver/intel "resuming with external monitor fails" [Normal,New] [07:13] and Jesse just replied [07:13] pitti, awesome [07:14] pitti, yeah if you feel like filing the bugs straight upstream, go for it [07:14] bryce: extremetuxracer is fun to play now! (~ 30 fps with 800x600) [07:14] bryce: I usually do, yes [07:14] bryce: ok, thx [07:14] at least this early in the game, when we don't need to track them for release purposes yet [07:15] pitti, having a bug in launchpad as well is useful if there is a patch I should be pulling in [07:15] bryce: right [07:15] bryce: the i915 one is against the kernel, though [07:17] bryce: btw, do you trip over i915.ko patches a lot? [07:18] yep [07:18] bryce: yesterday I figured out how to just build the module without much fuss, so it shoudl be possible to dkmsify it easily [07:18] so it might be useful for xorg-edgers [07:18] yeah I've not done kernel builds so much myself [07:19] bryce: I added the recipe to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild FYI [07:19] took me a while to figure out [07:19] but I've a procedure worked out with the kernel team to pass bugs along to them once a kernel patch is found, and they take it from there [07:19] but I really don't feel like building the entire kernel to test a 915 patch [07:19] * bryce bookmarks === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [07:27] ooh! [07:27] * pitti deletes /etc/modprobe.d/i915-kms.conf [07:46] ahh [07:57] morning everyone ! [07:59] robert_ancell: hey [07:59] huats, morning [07:59] robert_ancell: evening ! [08:00] (well for you) [08:00] morning o/ [08:00] robert_ancell: just so that you know, I have started a bit on anjuta... [08:00] I'll continue today [08:00] hey didrocks :) [08:00] huats, sweet, I was making a mess of it :) [08:00] hey huats, robert_ancell [08:01] robert_ancell: don't be too hard with you [08:01] so far I haven't seen tons of stuffs to fix... [08:06] hey robert_ancell [08:06] pitti, hey pitti [08:06] bonjour didrocks and huats [08:07] hey pitti :) [08:08] guten morgen pitti === slomo is now known as slomo_ [08:42] didrocks, hey === slomo_ is now known as slomo__ === slomo__ is now known as slomo [08:51] hey seb128 [08:51] didrocks, hello [08:51] had a good evening and night? ;-) [08:52] yes, very nice :-) You? [08:52] yes! [09:02] seb128 - i was trying to figure out last night why the "About Ubuntu" menu item has disappeared from the panel in Karmic [09:02] it seems ubuntu-docs no longer ships a /usr/share/omf/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu-C.omf file anymore, which the panel checks for the existence of first [09:03] chrisccoulson, right, I was writting that [09:03] chrisccoulson, I just reviewed your gnome-panel merge looks correct [09:03] thanks:) [09:03] do you know if 08_clock_applet_event.patch is still needed? [09:03] i wasnt sure if that was an ubuntu-docs bug or not, or whether we should change 01_layout.patch in gnome-panel [09:03] we dropped it before because I think it was fixed upstream in some way [09:03] but debian still have it [09:04] chrisccoulson, did they rename the file or what? [09:04] seb128 - i wasnt sure about that patch or not. it seems we dropped it once already, but debian still have it, so i wasnt sure how to justify removing it really, without understanding what it does [09:04] ok [09:05] debian have some pretty wierd patches to their panel :-/ [09:05] indeed [09:05] I've stopped resyncing some packages on debian because they have too many weird changes [09:06] yeah, i've started to notice that, especially with gnome-session too === maxb_ is now known as maxb [09:20] uh, why did the desktop workitems drop yesterday? http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png [09:22] hello [09:23] I am from Nepal [09:23] facing a problem [09:24] r all u sleeping? [09:24] !ask | laxmi [09:24] laxmi: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [09:24] laxmi: hello [09:24] seb128: I will make a tomboy upload for you, you only had to ask [09:25] I lost gdm conf file [09:25] Laney, I'm fine syncing on debian if they do upload it one day [09:25] we just have a big problem with lack of DD time [09:25] laxmi, try #ubuntu for user questions [09:25] Laney, well that's why I suggest not blocking on debian ;-) [09:25] ok [09:25] chrisccoulson, gnome-panel uploaded [09:26] seb128 - thanks [09:26] chrisccoulson, I'm not sure if your replied about my question on whether they renamed the index [09:26] let's do it then, because meebey is now away for some days [09:26] Laney, ok, let me know if you need sponsoring [09:26] I will do, just give me 2 mins to fix up the changelog [09:27] seb128 - which index is that? [09:28] chrisccoulson, the about ubuntu one [09:28] you said that the omf is not there in karmic [09:28] has it been renamed or something? [09:28] pitti, should we move empathy back to universe to get the new version built? [09:29] ah, yes. the about-ubuntu-C.omf file has gone. it hasnt been renamed, but the package is only shipping the translated files now [09:29] seb128: sure, go ahead; I kept it in main for now to make the dependency problems more obvious [09:29] chrisccoulson, do you know if that's a mistake or a choice? [09:29] i was thinking that the about-ubuntu desktop file would make more sense shipping with ubuntu-docs. then the panel could just check for the existence of the desktop file [09:30] could be [09:30] i'm not sure if that was a mistake or a design decision in ubuntu-docs [09:30] i tried to speak to mdke on #ubuntu-devel last night but i dont think he was around [09:31] ok, no hurry to get that changed anyway [09:32] no problem. i'll try and speak to mdke again later [09:42] slomo, helo [09:42] slomo, do you think you could tweak the gstreamer packages to have gnomevfs ranked lower than gio? [09:47] hmm. Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in 14 minutes. [09:53] asac, yes announce on the mailing list this week, they switch it to read only for one hour at 9utc [09:53] ie in 6 minutes from now [09:54] bug 381101 [09:54] Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/381101/+text) [09:55] oh I forgot to close it in the changelog [09:55] Laney, thanks [09:55] can you add that before sponsoring? I've got to go for a littl ebit [09:55] back soon [09:55] ok [10:22] seiflotfy1: not sure if that is a good idea atm... the gio plugin is still far from perfect because of misdesign in gio :/ i'll improve the situation a bit for 0.10.24 in the next days though and improve the usage in totem... [10:22] erm, seb128 ---^ [10:50] seb128: not sure if that is a good idea atm... the gio plugin is still far from perfect because of misdesign in gio :/ i'll improve the situation a bit for 0.10.24 in the next days though and improve the usage in totem... [10:51] slomo, ok because it takes over gio and breaks rhythmbox right not for example [10:51] ie vfs locations don't work when installed [10:52] seb128: yeah, that's why the gnomevfs package does conflict with meta-gnome in debian ;) that's the worst solution for this problem though, it would've been better if joss just talked to me before doing that... [10:53] ok, I didn't do that change but I though it could be a good idea to rank gio over gnomevfs, fedora does that apparently from what people told on IRC [10:53] brb session restart [11:09] bryce, pitti: is running the xorg edger ppa a good idea for everybody? will those things all land in karmic? [11:10] yes, it's a staging area for karmic, with pretty much upstream git head COTD [11:10] testing current git code seems a nice idea but if that's a different version from karmic or what will land there that seems split of feedback and efforts [11:10] I asked bryce about that some days ago, since that was my concern as well [11:10] he said currently xorg-edgers feedback is preferred, since upstream is more interested in that, and we still do regular karmic updates [11:11] well, upstream is interested in git trunk right [11:11] but that doesn't mean they will roll stable tarballs of those versions before karmic [11:11] we should stop testing xorg-edgers after FF [11:11] or that we will track the unstable versions [11:11] right now they are working towards 2.8.0 final for -intel [11:11] ie I think xorg-edger had intel drivers versions which didn't land to jaunty before jaunty [11:12] right, as I said; it's not a good idea to run it forever, but it's good right now [11:12] for catching regressions early and comparing/reverting to karmic [11:12] I don't like much the idea to run something different than what we ship to our users [11:13] seb128: well, *shrug*, it was just a suggestion, not a "everyone do it now!" :-) [11:13] yeah, I'm just thinking about that [11:13] I feel early testing is good but from an another side we should be working on what users get too [11:13] so I'm a bit torned on what I should be running [11:13] right now, we will definitively get new stuff into karmic, so better to report regressions on the day they happen [11:14] we could as well push those snapshots to karmic proper if we feel they are good enough to be used [11:14] *nod* [11:15] anyway thanks for the replies [11:15] I think I will keep running karmic versions for now so I know where we stand [11:15] seb128: btw, except for the compiz memleak, how is it working for you now? [11:15] performance, artifacts, suspend/resume, KMS, etc.? [11:16] kms turned on after upgrading recently [11:16] suspend with external monitor is broken for me (upstream working on it), otherwise it's pretty much perfect now [11:16] things work fine so far, suspend resume, vt switch [11:16] seb128: right, 2.6.30-10.12 [11:16] suspend got fixed for me with a recent upstream patch to i915 [11:16] so it seems that didn't affect your 965, only my 945 [11:16] I never had performances issues but I'm not using anything which require speed [11:16] (although the fix wasn't 945 specific) [11:16] ie no game, nothing using 3d drawing, etc [11:17] seb128: try extremetuxracer :) [11:17] the only real issue I get is that memory leak [11:17] I've to reboot at least once a day [11:17] we should rename that to "opengl-benchmark" and require everyone to use it for an hour every week :-P [11:17] ;-) [11:17] seb128: right, that could be a mesa memleak, or compiz itself [11:17] seb128: did you get it in jaunty? [11:18] if not, would be worth downgrading compiz to jaunty and check if it's still there [11:18] compiz didn't change really in karmic I doubt it's due to it [11:18] no [11:18] compiz | 1:0.8.2-0ubuntu8.1 | jaunty-updates | source, all [11:18] compiz | 1:0.8.2-0ubuntu13 | karmic | source, all [11:18] we didn't get a new compiz version in karmic [11:18] right [11:18] right, only minor changes [11:18] any upstream code changes in the 6 ubuntu revs? [11:19] one patch from debian re-added [11:19] otherwise they are changes in the packaging or the wrapper [11:19] I doubt it's due to compiz [11:20] okay, so likely mesa then [11:20] grrr, launchpad still down [11:20] do they need to do their update in european work hours? [11:24] seb128: ^ that's why the retracers fell over, so don't worry about the cron mails [11:24] yeah I figured ;-) === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:51] crap [12:51] pngquant is in universe and is a new build-dep of tomboy [12:53] kenvandine: ugh, just tried gnome-scan the first time; that thing is terrible! [12:54] * pitti purges and reinstalls xsane [12:54] the UI is totally in the wrong order, and it doesn't even offer the simplest color/contrast corrections [12:55] KenEdwards: is that any better in the current version? [12:58] kenvandine: ^, sorry [13:00] pitti, did you use the karmic version or the ppa one? === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:29] pedro_, ola [13:29] salut seb128, did you got my email? [13:29] pedro_, yes, we didn't switch yet so I would not do any change for now [13:29] seb128: i know just thinking in the future there [13:29] especially that rhythmbox is still a cool project and has somewhat responsive upstream now [13:30] well the "move to universe" will not really be revelant with archive reorganization [13:30] is there a way to refer to a spec in changelog? so that launchpad parses it somehow? [13:30] and I'm fine having desktop-bugs still looking at it [13:30] asac, launchpad parses it to do what? [13:31] seb128: alright, that's good to know :-) [13:37] seb128: not sure if launchpad has a feature for that ;) ... maybe so that you can get a clickable URL in the launchpad changelog? [13:37] but nevermind. i will just use the full url [13:52] * asac lunch [13:53] asac, enjoy! [13:55] seb128, has anyone reported compiz segfault with the update that came last night? [13:55] dunno I'm not working on compiz nor watching its bugs [13:55] * kenvandine searches [13:56] I upgraded yesterday night and got no segfault there but I don't think compiz changed recently [13:56] it was in the upgrade last night [13:57] seb128: do you want a bzr branch for planner? [13:57] no [13:57] ok, I attach a diff.gz so [13:58] well you can use a +junk on your account if you want [13:58] just don't use the team vcs for it [13:58] ie we can use it for review and upload but we will not keep it there [13:58] seb128: ok, I prefer to not use it, though, attach diff.gz and debdiff [13:58] alright [13:58] did the version change? otherwise debdiff is enough [13:59] seb128: yes, upstream version changed [13:59] ok [13:59] diff.gz is good then [13:59] seb128: I think we have to setup a list of packages we don't want in bzr [13:59] (maybe, merge it with versions.py) [14:00] I will give a look at that [14:00] I would say everything on the default page is team maintained [14:00] everything in the + details is not [14:00] ok, so everything in default page in bzr, the other, not... [14:00] right, something around those lines [14:00]