/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/24/#ubuntu-motu.txt

mok0"@antifacista45xx is a perl script with an array of pro-khamenei slogans, and @Avi0wn3d is a python script to counter it." Yay Python!00:45
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qiyongdoes cvs have a startup script in init.d or is it startup by inetd?03:19
ajmitchI suspect inetd, but I haven't used cvs for several years (thankfully)03:20
ajmitchyou should probably check in the package03:20
lifelessinetd03:21
lifelessbut, don't use cvs. thanks03:21
qiyongso cvs has no standalone mode?03:22
qiyonglifeless: user insists cvs, period03:22
lifelessit doesn't.03:22
lifelessif you're writing you should use it via ssh anyway03:23
qiyongit doesn't support standalone?03:23
lifelessthats correct03:23
qiyongi have to use pserver for windows clients03:23
MTecknologyTime for me to learn how to packlage... I'm going to package my own junk soon enough03:30
nhandler:)03:30
MTecknologynhandler: it's a scary road I'm about to embark upon03:31
MTecknologyI tried to fix bugs in packages once and I failed horribly03:31
nhandlerMTecknology: If you are interested, we do have a mentoring program you can join03:32
* MTecknology is interested03:33
nhandlerMTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring03:33
MTecknologycool03:34
ryanpriorHi there, I'm trying to build a source package to upload to REVU. When I run the suggested command, "dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot", I get an error about a missing debian/changelog file -- this suggests to me that building the package really isn't so straightforward.03:35
lifelessryanprior: you need to *have* a package to be able to build it. Upstream tarballs are not packages.03:35
ryanpriorI tried to Google for a tutorial on building a Debian source package, but while there are lots of tutorials on building binary packages, I couldn't find one for building source packages.03:35
RAOFryanprior: You'd be looking for !packagingguide03:36
ryanprior!packagingguide03:36
ubottuThe packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports03:36
ryanpriorI will take a look.03:36
ajmitchpackages that break on python2.4 annoy me03:36
lifelessajmitch: any particular reason?03:37
ajmitchbecause it interrupted my upgrading of packages to the latest karmic version :)03:38
ajmitchit's a new package in karmic that just appears to have the wrong python version info03:39
ajmitchsince it relies on features from 2.503:39
MTecknologyIs this link supposed to be an empty tarball? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic03:42
MTecknologythis part - wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.4.tar.gz03:43
ajmitchMTecknology: it's not empty when I download it03:43
MTecknologyoh...03:44
MTecknologyspelling error in the wiki....03:44
ajmitchwhat is the spelling error?03:45
MTecknologyThey tell you to make an empty directory and create a tarball over top of the one you just downloaded03:46
ajmitchno, it doesn't03:46
ajmitchit says to do that if there isn't a tarball03:47
MTecknologyoh..03:47
* MTecknology needs to learrn how to stop skimming text when not in class03:47
ajmitchit could be clearer, but it's not a spelling error03:47
lifelesswhat I hate is patch systems that wedge themselves03:52
MTecknology!find dh_make03:54
ubottuFile dh_make found in cli-common-dev, debhelper, dh-make03:54
RAOFlifeless: What would be an example of that?03:55
ajmitchlooks like we get to remove zope 2.x & plone from ubuntu03:55
ajmitchwhich will drop one of the big rdepends of python2.403:57
lifelessRAOF: whatever evolution uses04:05
RAOF:(04:05
lifelesshaving done a build, pull from upstream, do another build, and it bitches04:07
lifelesscan't undo the patch, can't redo it, can't fix it.04:07
lifelessarrgghh04:07
MTecknologyyou guys should remove evolution :)04:07
MTecknologyit's one of the biggest reasons I build up from a cli install :P04:08
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persia!ops04:42
ubottuHelp! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!04:42
persiaCould someone please gently get RAOF to fix his connection?04:42
ajmitchA fine example of Australian telecommunications infrastructure, I'm sure :)04:44
persiaQuite likely.04:44
persiaBut I don't know the magic codes to not only get him off the channel until he sorts it, but off the server (as it's flooding several channels)04:45
ajmitchyou'd probably need to convince some freenode staff of that04:45
lifelessI'll see about ringing him04:45
persiaBut I think they'd prefer to hear from delegated contacts, which is why I made the call above.04:45
persialifeless, Thanks.04:45
ajmitchnow that's service04:46
persiaThe power of global initiatives with local implementations.04:47
marnoldquestion a package of mine just hit Debian as import freeze is not yet in effect do i need to do anything for a sync or does it just happen?05:30
ajmitchit'll happen05:31
ajmitchthe 'autosync' isn't fully automatic, it's triggered by an archive admin05:31
marnoldit did05:31
marnoldthat was fast05:31
ajmitchso, no problem to worry about then?05:32
marnoldnope just wondering05:32
slytherincan anyone please explain the meaning of << before version string when specifying dependencies?05:33
ajmitchslytherin: 'strictly earlier' is the wording that policy uses05:36
slytherinajmitch: what does that mean in plain words?05:36
ajmitchless than05:36
slytherinand how is that different than simply <05:37
ajmitchsuch as conflicts: foo (<< 1.2.3)05:37
ajmitch"The deprecated forms < and > were used to mean earlier/later or equal, rather than strictly earlier/later, so they should not appear in new packages (though dpkg still supports them). "05:37
ajmitchdebian policy is a good resource for that05:37
ajmitchThey're effectively the same, but use << & >> where needed05:38
ajmitchin the conflicts case that I used, it'd be better to use Breaks instead05:38
slytherinajmitch: thanks for help. I will use <<05:39
MTecknologyAnyone know who Luigi Gangitano is?06:09
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persiaMTecknology, https://launchpad.net/people/ is a useful tool06:14
MTecknologypersia: except that it's just a blank profile06:14
persiaMTecknology, click on "Related Software"06:15
MTecknologypersia: but that doesn't tell me if he's ever in here :P06:16
MTecknologymakes me assume he is06:16
persiaWith no direct uploads to Ubuntu, it's unlikely that this would be a good place to find such a person.06:17
persiaOf course, there are exceptions to that guideline.06:17
dholbachgood morning06:40
iulianMorning dholbach.07:01
dholbachhiya iulian!07:03
mok0Anyone here know about Tor networks?07:08
mok0They've been advertised as safe for iraniasn to use but I don't think they are07:10
dholbachmok0: I have no idea07:12
ttxmok0: well it depends on definitions of "safe". Authorities should still be able to know they are going through a Tor network.07:12
ttxsince first-hop would be telling them that.07:13
mok0ttx: All the gov. has to do is to operate an exit node07:13
mok0ttx: and they can perform end-to-ebd traffic analysis07:13
mok0end-to-end07:13
ttxmok0: with enough noise that should prove quite difficult07:15
mok0ttx: security through obscurity is not enough if you are in a completely  controlled society07:17
persiamok0, It's all about balancing the cost of tracking vs. the cost of the information.07:18
persiaIt's probably safe to use Tor for generic surfing to places popular throughout a given controlled area.07:18
persiahard to identify a specific person if there is sufficient cover.07:18
ttxmok0: also you can pick nodes07:18
persiaBut that gets into game theory, etc.07:18
mok0persia: in a situation where the life of the regime is threatned, I don't think cost matters07:19
ttx(at least entry and exit ones)07:19
mok0A swedish security guy was able to recover a large number of email addresses and passwords by running an exit node07:20
ttxmok0: of course, exit nodes get unencrypted traffic. So if the encapsulated traffic is not encrypted, he would sure get vereything in it07:21
persiamok0, Right.  Cost of data.  So, it may be sufficient for regular browsing.  It may not be sufficient for subversion.07:21
lifelessthats more to do with unencrypted protocols beyond tor07:21
persiaFor subversion, you want deep back-channel communication anyway.07:21
ttxmok0: people don't necessarily get that tor doesn't protect you froim eavesdropping on exit nodes.07:22
ttxmok0: that's what the swedish research shows.07:22
persia(e.g. Have a set of servers that check the time via ntp over the net.  have them synchronised locally before checking.  Have the pattern of times that the servers check be meaningful)07:22
mok0I am just concerned b/c iranians are told to use Tor networks on Twitter07:22
ttxtor is a powerful in experienced hands. I wouldn't recommend it as the solution to all evil since you can get it wrong if you don't understand how it works.07:23
lifelessmok0: they are also told to use http proxies, which are if anything less secure still07:23
ttxs/powerful/powerful tool/07:23
mok0lifeless: yes, but that is for surfing07:24
mok0What the regime wants is to stop people from uploading videos and pictures07:24
mok0Proxies allow peope to surf and get information INTO the country07:25
persiaSo, it's possible to create a model where the information can be tracked by pattern matching.07:26
mok0persia: yes07:26
persiaBut as long as there are collaborators, it's harder.07:26
persiaFor example, Alice uses tor to get her video into UbuntuOne.07:26
persiaShe shares it to Bob.07:26
persiaBob waits a random period of time (6-14 hours) before sending it in encrypted mail to Chris.07:27
persiaChris dumps it on a torrent server.07:27
lifelessif you want secure, freenet is better07:27
lifelessits just abysmally slow07:28
persiaMalcom has a hard time matching Alice's activity to the torrent contents.07:28
mok0persia: yes, that involves several steps07:29
mok0But if the gov. is monitoring the network in general, and they have Tor exit nodes, they can find out who is sending videos to CNN for example07:30
mok0Only if the Tor network is very very large, they may not get enough packages to do it07:31
persiamok0, as does anything that is to be secure.  Any process is subject to tracking at the level of intelligence used to prepare it.  The smarter your automation, the smarter the cracking automation has to be.  Human-level automation tends to get expensive quickly (but look at Bletchley Park for a counterexample)07:31
mok0persia: yes07:32
persiaAnyway, tor is a tool.  Potentially a useful tool.  Relying solely on tor is better than nothing, but perhaps not sufficient.07:32
mok0In combination with encryption Tor might be rather safe07:35
mok0lifeless: What is freenet?07:36
mok0lifeless: n/m got it from Mr. Google07:39
mrooneydholbach: morning dholbach, just watching your video on upgrading a package :)08:22
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slytherinbigon: ping09:33
slytherinslomo: can you please take a look at latest gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10 upload whenever you get time. I plan to do similar changes to -ugly-multiverse when updating the package. Also ugly-multiverse will have replaces on -bad-multiverse (<< 0.10.13) because of x264 plugin move.09:35
zirodayHi, are there any plans for pidgin 2.5.7 to be stuck in backports?09:37
slytherinziroday: the fix for yahoo should land in -updates but I don't know if anyone is actually working on it.09:38
zirodayslytherin: ah okay, thanks!09:39
bigonslytherin: pong09:40
slytherinbigon: I was wondering why telepathy-idle is a suggests for empathy instead of recommends. We aren't shipping any other IRC client in default install, right? So if empathy is replacing pidgin then -idle should be recommends IMHO.09:42
bigongood question, I'm not sure tp-idle (and empathy support) is 100% functional09:44
slytherinI am not running empathy latest release. So can't really comment on that. If there are builds for hardy in PPA I will try.09:46
slomoslytherin: as long as it builds and can be installed i'm fine with it ;)10:22
slomoslytherin: or do you have any specific questions?10:22
slytherinslomo: nothing specific10:22
slytherinslomo: Just so you know, I plan to keep updating the -multiverse packages. :-)10:23
slomook :)10:23
slomoperfect, it seems nobody every touched the packages after me ;)10:24
slytherinslomo: right, in fact ugly-multiverse is not updated as per upstream since hardy.10:27
slomo:)10:29
slytherinslomo: I just remembered one question. I enabled mplex plugin which uses mjpegtools library. The plugin is supposedly needed by brasero to create video DVD. Am I correct that this plugin should reside in bad-multiverse package (considering mjpegtools build-dep).10:32
slomoslytherin: yes10:32
kirrusHi10:53
kirrusCan someone have a look at patching this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/387215 .. motu-swat?10:53
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable (https://launchpad.net/bugs/387215/+text)10:53
kirrusWe've had at least 4 servers cracked using this bug so far, so I'd guess it's probably pretty critical, but so far no-one's got past www-data shell (matter of time)10:54
popey!info phpmyadmin11:01
ubottuphpmyadmin (source: phpmyadmin): MySQL web administration tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:3.1.2-1 (jaunty), package size 3527 kB, installed size 13132 kB11:01
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popeykirrus: I can't help but think that perhaps you should remove the /config/ directory which would work around this?11:02
kirruspopey: we've been resetting permissions, so that the files aren't writable by www-data, but we have a fair few servers. It's far easier to deploy an update, than a chmod ;)11:07
popeysounds like you need landscape ;)11:08
kirruspopey: landscape costs too much money :(11:09
kirrusthe directors are against anything closed being deployed on our network.. and we have a majority of debian systems still, tho Ubuntu is slowly growing across the systems11:11
sakjurkirrus: is it possible to access those servers with SSH?11:12
sakjurYou should be able to deploy a bash-script through SSH on those and then just patch it that way11:14
kirrussakjur: yes, some, all from our internal management box, but we've not got a way of automatically deploying scripts on them yet - the passwords are stored in the wrong place for us to just be able to easily script a change over ssh. In the process of preparing to deploy clusterjob...11:15
sakjurI mean, if landscape is too expansive, that's maybe a good way to do simple tasks, it still takes a while, but well, well11:15
sakjurkirrus: can't you use SSH-keys?11:16
kirrussakjur: Yes. But we're not allowed to ssh-key our management box to anything, because if that box is cracked (would be hard), the nefarious individual would have easy access to all the servers11:17
sakjurkirrus: so you need to do things on place?11:18
sakjurwhoops11:18
sakjurgotta go to my job11:18
sakjursorry11:18
porthosehuats: would you please renew my membership to Mentering Reception11:41
huatsporthose: done11:48
huatsso feels free to handle a few people :P11:49
porthosethx on my todo list for today :)11:49
andrew_sayersI've started looking for errors in debian/control files that were missed because of bug #391165.12:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 391165 in dpkg "Dpkg::Deps mishandles newlines in Build-Dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39116512:07
andrew_sayersI've found 32 so far, with more likely to come.  Is there anything I should know before I post 32 identical bug reports?12:07
andrew_sayers(Well, each with minor changes to a template)12:08
Adri2000bddebian: there is still the @GETTEXT_PACKAGE@.mo problem though, and I didn't manage to find a solution with my basic autotools skills. do you have any idea how this could be fixed?12:17
Laneyandrew_sayers: You should file these against Debian too if they affect there12:40
andrew_sayersLaney: as well or instead?12:41
Laneyas well12:41
andrew_sayersPhew :)12:41
andrew_sayersAnyway, will do.12:41
Laneyand please make sure that dpkg bug gets fixed there too12:41
andrew_sayersOkay, I'll file a report for that in Debian.12:42
Laneythanks a lot12:42
bigonslytherin: maybe if you could open a bug about empathy and tp-idle so I will not forget13:03
slytherinbigon: I will log a bug. I was hoping I could try latest version. But there doesn't seem to be an easy way for me.13:06
bigonslytherin: you cannot upgrade to jaunty?13:08
slytherinbigon: I can not upgrade my office machine to jaunty right now. Busy with releases. And laptop at home is ibook (powerpc), so I will have to compile all the packages myself.13:08
slytherinI mean build the packages.13:09
directhex?13:09
directhexppc is still built13:09
slytherindirecthex: the latest releases of empathy are either in karmic or in telepathy ppa.13:10
bigonyeah all the packages are still built on ppc13:10
bigonppa build ppc13:11
slytherinppa does not support ppc, right?13:11
directhexisn't it possible on a per-team basis to get ppc access on a ppa?13:11
directhexi.e. ppa packages built on a main archive buildd13:11
bigonslytherin: oh right my bad13:11
ScottKIt is possible to have a non-virtualized PPA.  I think there are three at the moment.13:12
ScottKe.g. it's not easy to get.13:12
bddebianAdri2000: Did you try gettextize?13:30
* slytherin feels nice for reporting FTBFS bugs in Debian. :-)13:30
dupondjehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/39152913:31
ubottuUbuntu bug 391529 in wammu "on karmic alpha 2, wammu: Depends: python-xml but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]13:31
dupondjecould somebody check, its a fix for wammu in it :)13:31
dupondjeas python-xml is removed, dependency is removed also, its not needed anymore13:31
slytherindupondje: does wammu work after removing dependency? I mean which python module does it use then for xml functions?13:32
dupondjecompiled it without13:32
dupondjeeverything seem to work13:32
dupondjemailed developper and he says: It was needed in some older python versions (something like 2.2, I'm13:33
dupondjenot sure)13:33
slytherindupondje: it may be only runtime dependency. Just make sure.13:33
dupondjeslytherin: there is a XML export function13:35
dupondjeworks perfectly13:35
dupondjewithout the python-xml :)13:35
slytherindupondje: cool13:35
dupondjeand if the developper says its not needed :) well :D13:36
slytherindupondje: you may want to add that additional information to the bug13:36
dupondjedone13:37
masterkernelhi all, i need 2 reviewers for my package, kernelcheck (automated tool for custom compiling any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source)13:48
masterkernelREVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck13:48
* maxb wonders why it's called kernelcheck if it doesn't check kernels, but builds them13:57
maxb:-)13:57
loic-mWhen everything from a previous merge has been done upstream and in Debian, and it can be converted to a sync, is it enough to request a sync and detail the reasons in the launchpad request?13:58
Hobbseeloic-m: yes13:58
loic-mHobbsee: as far as keeping the ubuntu changelog, is that done automatically?13:59
RainCTloic-m: Yes. You can read more about sync requests here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess13:59
RainCTloic-m: And yes fixing the changelog is automatic13:59
Hobbseeloic-m: in the package, or on launchpad?13:59
loic-mHobbsee: meaning when merges become sync, what happens to the previous Ubuntu entries in changelog - do we have to do something, or is it done automatically?14:01
Hobbseeloic-m: you don't have to do anything.  We take debian's version of the package, so they are lost14:01
Hobbsee(although launchpad will still tell you bits of them, and you can download old versions of the source that have them still)14:01
loic-mok, thanks a lot14:02
masterkernelmaxb: don't worry there's a reason. I had originally used the program to check the kernel in the master kernel thread with the latest one to see if i needed to update it (there's still evidence of that if you download v. 1.0)14:02
masterkernelthen somehow it evolved into compiling kernels. idk how14:02
RainCTHobbsee: Oh. May it be that "aptitude changelog" gets the changelogs from Launchpad and so includes entries from Ubuntu?14:04
HobbseeRainCT: i don't think it gets the changelog that is shown up on the launchpad souce packages page.14:05
loic-mRainCT: that's what I thought too, since there might still be useful stuff in there14:05
HobbseeRainCT: (and i doubt it does, in reality.  Have you actually vound an example of this?)14:05
Hobbseeloic-m: er, why would there be?  wouldn't everything be duplicated from upstream & debian?14:06
Hobbseeloic-m: beyond timeline data, that is14:06
RainCTbug numbers, for instance. or knowing who worked on it14:07
loic-mHobbsee: I tend to look at previous Ubuntu changelog entries to get an idea of who has worked on what in package when I need to ask questions ;)14:08
HobbseeRainCT: well, that entire branch of code gets overwritten, so, thus, no one from ubuntu did happen to work on the debian branch?14:08
Hobbseeloic-m: right :)14:08
slytherinloic-m: for syncs, use of requestsync is preffered. :-)14:08
Laneyloic-m: just use Launchpad for this info14:09
HobbseeRainCT: oh, aptitude changelog will grab it from changelogs.ubuntu.com, btw14:09
loic-mLaunchpad is slow...14:10
loic-mslytherin: thanks, it's also faster ;)14:10
LaneyI have a quick search to open the source package page, so it's no slower than typing aptitude changelog14:10
RainCTLaney: good idea, I've just set up on too (only had one for bugs so far)14:15
LaneyRainCT: nhandler posted some good ones a while ago14:15
LaneyI use pts and lp the most often14:16
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bddebianAdri2000: Is djplay upstream dead/unresponsive?14:45
mok0sebner: Flightgear is now in the archive14:46
mok0Go vote up my idea http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20362/14:49
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ogramok0, already exists15:04
mok0ogra: you mean the idea or the tracker15:04
ograhttps://launchpad.net/~ogra/+hwdb-submissions15:04
ograit will soon be possible to attach hwdb entries to bugs15:05
mok0ogra: it's not _quite_ what I had in mind15:06
mok0ogra: I don't see where the hardware is15:06
ograin the submission entries15:07
ograthere is also a real DB thats not accessible yet15:07
ograbut its in the works15:07
mok0ogra: don't see it15:07
ogra?15:07
mok0ogra: Each piece of hardware should be like a Bug, where you can have comments etc.15:08
ograright, thats what the database will have15:08
ogracurrently it collects the xml data and in parallel stores the items in a db ... atm only the xml files are accessible, but the db will get a frontend, so you can look up your intel98236 graphics card in the future there15:10
mok0ogra, so those XML files are the raw data that will be parsed to make an entry for each component ?15:10
mok0ogra, well, go an vote it up then :-)15:10
ograwell, its already in the works :)15:10
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ogranot sure it needs extra votes15:11
mok0ogra: heh ok, glad to hear it. If you guys need some input I'm available :-)15:11
ogramok0, cr3's team is working on that15:12
ograthey also do checkbox (the collecting client)15:12
mok0ogra: is there a team on lp for that=15:13
mok0?15:13
ograno idea, ask cr3 :)15:13
mok0ogra, ok thanks!15:14
cr3mok0: hi there, I'm trying to catchup the backlog... and I need coffee. one moment :)15:14
mok0cr3: allrighty15:14
al-maisanhow do I figure out what package a particular file belongs to? Like '/bin/ls' for example?15:15
mok0al-maisan: dpkg -S bin/ls15:15
mok0al-maisan: but that only works for files installed on your system15:15
Laneyapt-file15:16
Laneyworks for all afaik15:16
mok0It does15:17
cr3mok0: ok, so I finally caught up with the backlog. if you are speaking of the hardware database in launchpad, this is unfortunately not something I'm working on15:29
mok0cr3: ah, ogra told me you were15:30
cr3mok0: I'm sorry to have to bounce you around like this but abel is the one working on that15:30
cr3mok0: I work on the commercial side of hardware testing, certification.canonical.com, but not on launchpad15:30
mok0cr3: ok, thanks, I'll get in touch with him, then15:30
mok0cr3: I just wrote up that Brainstorm entry a couple of days ago, I didn't know about the project15:31
mok0cr3: so, I am intersted in hearing about it , and if there are things I can do to help15:31
cr3mok0: what you mentionned in this channel sounds like this page: http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/15:31
mok0cr3, yes, but within LP, so we could link bugs to it etc15:32
cr3mok0: however, I don't agree with that kind of hardware database which contains subjective information about hardware apparently works with an arbitrary release of ubuntu15:32
clkI'm just about to roll a new package, how far off is karmic? can I submit packages for inclusion into karmic at the moment? and when does jaunty go into feature freeze?15:32
mok0cr3: there may be crashes in a program that only pops up with particular hardware15:33
cr3mok0: I think hardware compatibility should be far more structured than bugs. there is an intrinsic difference between the two: bugs are transient whereas hardware sticks around for much longer15:33
mok0cr3: and we have not good way of tracking that atm15:34
mok0cr3: you have obviously thought a lot more about this than I have15:34
cr3mok0: apport does a pretty good job of gathering as much information as possible when a crash happens15:34
mok0cr3: right, but it's not directly visible to users or developers15:35
cr3mok0: the only problem is that the apport information attached to a bug doesn't necessarily gets structured in such a way that it would be possible to correlate the crash to a particular piece of hardware, hence my obsession on structuring this information properly15:35
mok0cr3: sounds right15:36
\shcr3: is there any way as a normal user to see the certified HW vendors from canonicals site?15:36
cr3mok0: I may have thought about it a bit more, but I think we're both trying to scratch the same itch :)15:36
clkSorry I meant to ask > When is karmic going into feature freeze?15:36
cr3\sh: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification15:36
mok0clk the info is on the wiki somewhere15:36
clkthanks mok0 i'll take a look15:37
cr3mok0: man, that hardware in the wiki is a nightmare to manage, I really need to get back to the doc folks about that15:37
\shcr3: thx :) btw...did HP send you some blade examples? bl7000c enclosure and some bl460/465/480/485/495c blades? I wonder if ubuntu just works out of the box...actually I'll see that anyways next week ;)15:38
mok0cr3, it's difficult to foresee the kind of workflow involving the hwdb + LP that would be useful to have15:38
=== al-maisan_ is now known as al-maisan
cr3\sh: no blades: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/list/?search=HP15:38
\shcr3: I read the list..that's why I asked, if they are trying to certify their money makers also for Ubuntu...15:39
cr3mok0: you've actually put your finger on the problem: it is specifically because it is difficult to foresee that LP has been reluctant to introduce the hwdb too quickly.15:39
clkone more question, if someone 'nominates' a package for release into a the next version of Ubuntu, does this just mean they would like it to be in the next version or does it mean something more significant?15:39
cr3\sh: yeah, I hope we'll get to test blades too!15:40
\shcr3: what can I do to give you some infos about compatiblity of those blades...I'm going to start to deploy ubuntu (8.04 and 9.04) on those servers..I wonder if you would like to have some infos15:41
cr3\sh: the best you could do is informally send the outcome of your testing to me on irc or by email15:42
cr3\sh: if you could run checkbox-cli and submit the information to launchpad, that would also rock15:43
\shcr3: cool..will do that :)15:46
iulianttx: 'ey.  tomcat6 has just been uploaded this morning.  We can sync it next time with unstable.  What do you say?15:47
ttxiulian: sounds like a plan. Will let you know if I find any objections in the meantime :)15:48
iulianttx: Excellent, that would be be great indeed :)15:49
iulians/be//15:49
=== ember_ is now known as ember
mok0cr3: thanks16:00
* mok0 was afk for a while16:00
dupondjehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/391529 <- sponsorship wanted :)16:15
ubottuUbuntu bug 391529 in wammu "on karmic alpha 2, wammu: Depends: python-xml but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:15
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
clkI'm packaging a GUI used to interface with ghostscript, obviously this package wont work if ghost script is not installed, so should I make ghostscript a dependency or should I just assume anyone installing the gui package will already have ghostscript?16:35
azeemclk: the former16:35
dstansbyHi guys, just wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I'm having:16:35
clkthanks azeem16:35
dstansby# Regenrate make files using fpcmake.16:35
dstansbyfpcmake -r -Tall16:35
dstansbyProcessing Makefile.fpc16:35
dstansbyError: Target "go32v2", package "rtl" not found16:35
dstansbymake: *** [configure-stamp] Error 116:35
dstansbydpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 216:36
dstansbydebuild: fatal error at line 1334:16:36
dstansbydpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S failed16:36
dstansbyThat's the error message I'm getting :(16:36
azeemdstansby: that's an upstream build system error/problem16:36
azeemyou will have to debug it16:36
dstansbyI'm trying to build a source package that's in the ubuntu repos16:37
azeemdstansby: do you use pbuildert?16:37
azeempbuilder*16:37
dstansbyThe command I'm using is 'debuild -S'16:37
azeemare the Build-Depends installed?16:38
dstansbyI'll just check16:38
dstansbyazeem: It seems some of them weren't. I assumed that they were though, because in the past when I've tried to build without deps I've got an error message telling me which deps were missing16:40
dstansbyThanks a lot, it's all working now :D16:40
azeemyou usually don't need (all) Build-Depends to build a source package (i.e. debuild -S)16:42
azeemin this case, apparently some are needed16:42
al-maisanhello geser, how are things?16:56
al-maisanCan we have quick chat re. bug #389624?16:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 389624 in opendchub "Sync opendchub 0.7.15-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38962416:56
clkazeem, any idea what the postscript gui interface "section" would be in the the debian/control file?16:57
clkwhould I just put that as misc?16:57
clk*would16:57
azeemwhat toolkit?16:57
clkazeem, any idea what the postscript gui interface "section" would be in the the debian/control file?17:04
clkwhould I just put that as misc?17:04
azeem17:55 < azeem> what toolkit?17:04
clksorry if I missed your reply azeem my wifi kept dropping17:10
azeem18:02 < azeem> 17:55 < azeem> what toolkit?17:10
=== mtrudel is now known as cyphermox
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== keffie_jayx is now known as effie_jayx
cplis there an easy way to find out what "section" a package belongs to in the repo without looking at the debian/control file of the said package?17:40
pochuemilio@saturno:~$ apt-cache showsrc vinagre | grep Section17:41
pochuSection: gnome17:41
azeemcpl: you can look at the package at packages.ubuntu.com17:41
cody-somervillecpl, Can you elaborate on what you're trying to do?17:41
azeemor apt-cache17:41
pochucpl: the control file may not be right anyway17:41
cody-somervillecpl, As the value in the control file may be overriden in the repository17:41
cplazeem, I was looking at packages.ubuntu.com but I couldnt find the section name on the packages page17:41
pochucody-somerville: yeah, apt-cache will show the right one though :)17:41
cody-somervillepochu, indeed17:42
cplany pointers on how I can use apt-cache to get the section name17:44
cplapt-cache search showpkg ghostscript brings up nothing17:44
cplwait17:45
cplnevermind17:45
cplI'm an idiot17:45
cplactually, I still can't find it17:46
azeemcpl: what command are you running?17:48
cplapt-cache showpkg ghostscript17:48
azeemwho told you to rnu showpkg?17:48
azeemrun*17:48
cplno-one17:48
cplyou said use apt-cache17:49
cplI wasn't sure exactly what to do so I looked at the documentation17:49
azeemwhy don't you follow pochu's advice from above?17:49
cplThat's what I though I was doing17:49
cpl*thought17:49
azeemdid you compare the two command-lines?17:49
azeemand/or read everything pochu said?17:49
cplgood point, I didn't see the first thing he said17:50
cplthanks17:50
=== ZehRique_ is now known as ZehRique
Adri2000bddebian: I tried gettextize but I still have errors. upstream looks dead though the author sent a mail to the ml a few days ago saying she planned a release soon. I may ask her to update all that autotools stuff18:08
cplDoes anyone have experience of the Aladdin Free Public Licence18:15
cplthe FSF dont classify it as a true free license, looks like it's ok to distribute and modify the source as long as it's not resold, I assume that's suitable for the repo?18:16
ScottKcpl: If it has a non-commercial clause it'll have to go in multiverse18:18
cplThat's ok18:18
ScottKcpl: I'm not familiar with the license, but if that's the only issue it's probably fine for multiverse.18:21
cplReading through it, I don't see any other issues. Thanks ScottK18:22
bddebianAdri2000: Yeah, I tried gettextize too and I even removed IT_PROG_INTLTOOL and got different results but still broken.  I already sent the issue to Melanie (the upstream author). :)18:29
Adri2000bddebian: oh, ok. sent directly to her or on the ml?18:29
Adri2000and when did you send it?18:30
bddebianAdri2000: Directly to her and about 2 hours ago :)18:30
bddebianSorry, more precisely 3 hours and 15 minuts ago :)18:31
Adri2000ok ok :) well tell me when you get an answer18:32
=== kklimonda__ is now known as kklimonda
geniiHello. Is there some place .deb pre/postinst pre/postrm scripts get cached and used other than perhaps /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.scriptname  ? I had an error in the postrm, manually fixed it there (/var/lib...postrm) which allowed removal. But then after install of the new package with the fix, it seems to be using the old version for some reason.18:57
\shgrmpf...what was the url on LP for the NEW queue again?18:58
iulian\sh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue19:10
ethana2packaging the wizardpen 0.7 driver19:15
ethana2It consists of some binary code and a couple .fdi files with a bunch of devices in them19:15
ethana2Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module, kernel patch or cdbs?19:15
ethana2It's for most non-wacom graphics tablets19:16
ethana2I'm /thinking/ kernel module...19:16
ethana2but the .fdi files aren't a kernel thing I don't think19:16
\shiulian: found it already, thx :)19:26
=== blueyed_ is now known as blueyed
\shif nobody objects I'll take some universe merges from the top of the mom list...19:40
\shstill 20 minutes to go for new software rollout..need to do some work19:40
ScottK\sh: It's after DIF, so I think it's a free for all.19:41
\shScottK: good .. let's see how many I can get removed from that list19:41
geserDIF is already in effect?19:44
\shgeser: tomorrow19:45
\sh25th19:45
ScottK\sh: Right.  I was a day off.19:45
\shScottK: I think a couple of hours don't matter ;)19:45
masterkerneltomorrow? in that case, can i pay someone to review kernelcheck? ;) jk19:46
\shDIF == debian import freeze19:46
\shnot feature freeze19:46
gesermasterkernel: DIF not FF19:46
masterkernel*sponsor19:46
ebroderAny motu-stu types around? I've got a few bugs that I've been trying to get somebody to look at for a few weeks now20:22
pochuebroder: stu?20:23
ebroderSorry - sru :)20:24
RoAkSoAxHeya guys, do you know if there is a way which packages are using a specific dependency???20:24
RoAkSoAxs/way/way to know/20:25
ebroderaptitude search ~Dpackage20:25
geserRoAkSoAx: apt-cache rdepends20:27
RoAkSoAxthanks geser ebroder  :)20:27
loic-mDoes anyone know a bit about handling outdated config.guess files? I'm reading /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz, but I end up with the new file also in the diff.gz as in-source patch20:28
loic-mAnd the README doesn't suggest using a patch system20:29
ebroderloic-m: cdbs will handle preserving the original for you20:29
loic-mI'm copying the new config.guess/sub during the clean target20:29
ebroderloic-m: That's the wrong target to do it in20:29
loic-mebroder: the package isn't using cdbs, I can't really change that20:30
ebroderloic-m: clean doesn't always run before builds20:30
ebroderloic-m: you want to do it in your configure target or whatever20:30
loic-m /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz advertises doing it during that target though.20:30
gesertry rm the old ones in clean and copy the ones from autotools-dev in configure or build20:30
geserthis should keep the diff.gz small20:30
loic-mgeser: even though the README says otherwise?20:31
ebroderloic-m: ==geser. The .diff.gz can't track deleted files20:31
loic-mebroder, geser, thanks a lot20:31
geseryes, therefore the deletion doesn't appear in the diff.gz20:31
ebroderI honestly have no idea why the README would say to copy them in in the clean stage...20:32
loic-mIf I paste the file during the configure target, I have to do it before calling configure, don't I?20:32
ebroderloic-m: Yes20:32
ethana2dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev libx11-dev libxext-dev xautomation xserver-xorg-dev libsysfs-dev20:33
ethana2Does that mean that they're just not /installed/ or that they're not available at all?20:33
ebroderethana2: That they're not installed20:33
loic-mthanks20:34
ethana2ebroder: do I have to install them on my actual OS, or can I do that in pbuilder or something?20:34
geserethana2: inside your pbuilder is enough20:34
ebroderethana2: pbuilder should do that for you, though20:34
ethana2I tried..20:34
ethana2I'm going through the debian guide..20:35
geserand?20:35
ethana2so it doesn't have ubuntu stuff20:35
ethana2this was dpkg-buildpackage that I treid20:35
ethana2can I just throw a tar.gz at pbuilder?20:35
geserdid you pass any options to dpkg-buildpackage?20:35
* RoAkSoAx gives up on trying to fix an unmet dep :S20:35
geserethana2: you pass the .dsc to pbuilder20:35
geserRoAkSoAx: which one?20:36
ethana2geser: how do I get a .dsc again?20:36
RoAkSoAxgeser, trying to solve revelation http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28050618/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.revelation_0.4.11-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz20:36
ebroderethana2: debuild -S20:36
geserdpkg-buildpackage -S (you might need to install a subset of the build-depends) or debuild -S (which is nearly the same)20:36
RoAkSoAxgeser, in my pbuilder the unmet deps are this: libgdl-1-0: Depends: libgdl-1-common (= 2.26.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not installable20:37
ethana2ah yes20:37
ethana2ebroder: thanky'20:37
geserRoAkSoAx: ah the python-gdl case :)20:37
RoAkSoAxgeser, yeah!! where libgdl-1-0 has been renamed to libgdl-1-2 python-gdl tries to install libgdl-1-0 instead of libgdl-1-220:38
geserRoAkSoAx: bug 38972820:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 389728 in gnome-python-extras "Uninstallable in Karmic due to bad dep on libgdl, FTBFS if rebuilt" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38972820:39
RoAkSoAxgeser, yes I was actually trying to fix that :)20:40
fabrice_spHi. When building playonlinux in KArmic, it seems ${python:Depends} is substituted with python2.5. Any clue about what's happening?20:44
=== bastiao__ is now known as k0p
fabrice_sponly python2.6 and python-support is installed during the build of the package20:45
geserfabrice_sp: check the scripts, there is probably somewhere python2.5 set as interpreter20:45
ebroderfabrice_sp: I think there are a couple of variables/files in the debian/ directory that can change the package to use 2.520:46
fabrice_spthanks geser and ebroder: I'll check the debian files again (didn't found anything before)20:46
RoAkSoAxfabrice_sp, can this be it: playonlinux-3.5$ grep -sr python2.5 *20:47
RoAkSoAxpython/tools/get_wineversions.py:#!/usr/bin/python2.520:47
RoAkSoAx ??20:47
geserif the file is included in the deb then it's probably it20:48
fabrice_spokkkk20:48
fabrice_spI'll patch the file, and see what happen, then. Thanks RoAkSoAx !20:48
RoAkSoAxfabrice_sp, welcome :)20:48
gesermake it use /usr/bin/python and the dependency on python2.5 should be gone20:48
fabrice_spok. Thanks again!20:49
cplI'm packaging something that needs qmake to be used before make, how do I go about this?20:57
ebrodercpl: cdbs has a qmake class20:58
cplthe packaging instructions on the wiki only really cover simplistic packages, alot of real world stuff seems to throw questions that the wiki doesnt answer20:58
cplebroder, this is my first package20:58
cplebroder, I'm not using cdbs20:59
cplI'm using debhelper21:00
cplthe wiki says it's the most common21:00
ebrodercpl: I can't help you, then. I've never written debhelper packages21:01
cplok thanks21:01
pochucpl: look at real packages :)21:02
cplpochu, I have, but it seems lots of packages have so many little differences depending on how the devs want you to compile their app that there isn't really a standard21:03
cplIf I could find another package that requires a qmake before install I think that would be good to look at21:03
cpleven then the specifics will probably be too different to be helpful21:04
cplcould I just do the qmake to create the makefile then package that?21:05
cplor would that be me editing things I'm not supposed too?21:05
cplmaybe I could do the qmake and make it a diff/21:05
cpl?21:05
cplor patch21:05
StupendoussteveI believe running qmake would generally be done as part of the package compilation21:09
Stupendoussteveand in debian/rules21:09
cplStupendoussteve, I'll read up on how to edit the rules file in detail21:10
Stupendousstevecpl: Does qmake run instead of configure?21:12
cplStupendoussteve, Yes21:12
cplit appears so21:12
StupendoussteveShould be easier to put it into the rules file then21:13
cplmkdir build && cd build && qmake ../activitydiary.pro21:13
cplfrom the install file ^21:13
cplSo that's what needs to be done in debian/rules ?21:13
StupendoussteveNot their steps, but debian/rules usually has a call to the configure script, modifying it to use qmake instead shouldn't be too difficult21:14
Stupendousstevemay take some trial and error to get it right though21:14
fabrice_spRoAkSoAx, geser : it worked! I'm submitting my debdiff to Ubuntu for sponsoring, and will forward it to Debian.21:14
RoAkSoAxfabrice_sp, awesome! :)21:14
cplThanks Stupendoussteve , I'll see what I can do21:14
StupendoussteveMake sure you have qmake in the build-depends as well21:15
cplyeah I do21:15
cplStupendoussteve, can I use rules to make the dir that the install file says you need to make?21:16
cplor is that not something you should do in rules?21:16
Ampelbeincpl: i have not read all the conversation, but you could look at qt-creator, qzion or qedje packaging. those are with a build-dep on qmake, maybe you can get a clue there?21:16
cplAmaranth, I'll take a look, the way this wants to be built seems overly specific though21:17
RoAkSoAxHeya guys do you know which package contains  include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/hlibrary.mk ?21:25
ebroderRoAkSoAx: dpkg -S $FILE21:26
ebroderOr if you don't have the package installed, `apt-file search $FIE`21:26
ebroder*$FILE21:26
masterkernelRoAkSoAx: haskell-devscripts in karmic21:26
fabrice_sphaskell-devscripts21:26
fabrice_sptoo late ;-)21:26
RoAkSoAxbut not in Jaunty right?21:26
fabrice_spnop21:27
masterkernelnope21:27
fabrice_sponly karmic21:27
=== cprov is now known as cprov-afk
fabrice_sp(http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=karmic&searchon=contents&keywords=hlibrary.mk)21:27
RoAkSoAxok thanks masterkernel fabrice_sp21:27
masterkernelwhen is feature freeze for karmic?21:27
RoAkSoAxmasterkernel, I believe it's around 27 of August21:28
masterkernelok thanks21:28
fabrice_spmasterkernel, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule21:29
yuriiHi- is there a .pdf guide for packaging?21:46
pochuthere's the packaging-guide in pdf21:47
yuriia URL for it?21:47
pochuor the Debian's new maintainers guide21:47
pochu!packagingguide21:47
ubottuThe packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports21:47
yuriia .pdf version21:48
yuriinot web21:48
cplI cant figure out what gtk2.6 is21:48
cplI cant find a package even close to that name21:48
pochuyurii: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.en.pdf21:49
cplmust mean libgtk2.0-021:49
pochuyurii: and https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/pdf/ubuntu/C/packagingguide.pdf21:50
pochubut this one is outdated21:50
nhandlerI have the complete packaging guide in docbook format if you are interested in converting that to pdf21:55
cplcan anyone tell what exactly this means?> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev21:55
nhandlercpl: Install autotools-dev21:55
cplhow is that unmet? I'm asking for it via the Build-Depends21:55
Ampelbeincpl: you don't have the package autotools-dev installed21:55
cplin debian/control21:55
nhandlercpl: How are you building the package?21:56
cpldebuild21:56
Ampelbeincpl: then you must install the build-deps manually.21:56
cplAmaranth, then what's the point of Build-Depends ?21:57
Ampelbeincpl: it defines what packages are needed to build the package. (my name is ampelbein, btw)21:57
cplif that doesnt pull the packages for me, how are end users going to use the package?21:57
Ampelbeincpl: these are the dependencies needed to build, either resolved via pbuilder-satisfydepends or by manually installing them.21:58
bddebianAdri2000: She responded.  She21:58
masterkernelcpl, build-depends are different from depends21:58
bddebianwill put the patches upstream before the new release but could use some help on the translation stuff :(21:58
Ampelbeincpl: end users usually don't build packages themselfs. btw: if the package is already in the repositories, a 'sudo apt-get build-dep <foo>' installs the needed packages to build.22:00
cplAmpelbein, ok, assuming autotools-dev was never automagically places on the Build-Depends line by dh_make, how would I of known I need it?22:00
cplat compile time, I get no missin dep error when I remove it from the Build-Depends line22:00
Ampelbeincpl: if your package doesn't use autotools you don't need the -dev package.22:01
Ampelbeincpl: autotools is the aclocal, automake, autoconf stuff22:01
cplAmpelbein, How would i find out22:01
cpldh_make entered it into the control fine automatically22:01
cpl*file22:02
cplalthough compilation errors dont mention the dependency22:02
cplI now realise I had Build-Depends and depends mixed up by the way22:02
Ampelbeincpl: sorry, got a disconnect.22:05
cplAmpelbein, How would i find out22:05
cpldh_make entered it into the control fine automatically22:05
cplalthough compilation errors dont mention the dependency22:05
cplI now realise I had Build-Depends and depends mixed up by the way22:06
Ampelbeincpl: you are supposed to check the build-depends manually. it depends on the software you are trying to package what you need.22:06
cplHow is this done manually?22:06
Ampelbeincpl: check what libraries the software links to, which programs are being called in the makefile. most of the time, the authors have a INSTALL file which lists the software needed.22:07
cplyeah, thing is, none of those places list this as a dependency22:08
cplso why would dh_make put it in the debian/control file?22:08
Ampelbeincpl: because the author of dh_make thought it would be a good idea to have it listed by default?22:08
azeemcpl: because somebody convinced the dh_make guy that this is important22:08
azeemI have an idea who it was22:09
Ampelbeincpl: autotools are widely used.22:09
cplAmpelbein, well, this is the only package job I have looked at where dh_make has added this to the control file22:09
azeemthe rationale is probably that for new ports, config.guess is outdated, so better have it copied over by dh_make22:09
cplanyway, I'll roll with this and see how it goes22:09
azeemcpl: maybe it checks the timestamp22:09
cplI just hate it when a tool does something I cant explain22:09
azeemand if it decides the shipped config.guess copy is too old, does the autotools-dev stuff22:09
azeemno diea22:10
azeemidea*22:10
Ampelbeincpl: azeem just made me think: your package may build on i386 or amd64 but perhaps not on ia64 or lpia because config.guess is outdated. so you may not need the package to build on your architecture, you may still need it on others.22:12
azeemwell22:12
azeemlpia doesn't need a special config.guess I think22:12
azeemand ia64 has been supported since 2000 or so22:12
cplYeah I understand why it might be needed, I'm just confused as to why dh_make added the dep, I've seen dh_make do that before22:13
azeemthe last time this was problematic was for the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD port I think22:13
azeemand some more obscure ports22:13
cplI've never seen22:13
cpl**22:13
azeemcpl: dh_make isn't really authorative22:13
cplalso turns out this app has deps that aren't even listed in INSTALL22:13
cpllol22:14
Ampelbeinazeem: yeah, i just could not remember a more fitting architecture. i wanted to simply give an explanation.22:14
azeemit makes some weird choices sometimes; e.g. I usually throw away its debian/rules22:14
azeemcpl: INSTALL usually only contains generic installation instructions22:14
azeemlook at configure.{in,ac} or README for better information22:14
cplGotta love how vague some developers are within the documentation22:15
ajmitchmany developers will just use the standard boilerplate for that stuff22:15
ajmitchdocumentation isn't as fun to update22:15
cplchecking for flex... no22:17
cplchecking for lex... no22:17
cplYou need the 'flex' package22:17
cplmake: *** [config.status] Error 122:17
cplDepends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libglade-2.0, libgalde2-dev, xorg-dev, flex22:17
cplI know I need flex, that's why it's on the Depends line....................22:18
ajmitchBuild-Depends22:18
cplI see22:18
ajmitchstuff that's required to build the package goes into Build-Depends (and Build-Depends-Indep)22:18
cplI didn't know it was needed to build the package22:18
cplI thougt it was needed to compile the app22:19
ajmitchyou do now22:19
azeemcpl: flex is a build tool22:19
azeemnot a runtime thing22:19
cpl*thought22:19
cplok22:19
ajmitchbuilding the package is compiling the ap22:19
azeemcpl: what do you think building the package entails22:19
ajmitchs/ap/app/22:19
azeemcpl: and remove those libraries and -dev packages from Depends22:19
cplazeem, so where do I specify what dependencies the user needs?22:20
cplfor aptitude22:20
azeemcpl: in Depends22:20
azeembut the libraries are auto-calculated22:20
cpl?22:20
azeemwhat is unclear?22:20
cplyes22:20
cplthe wiki is no where near detailed enough about this22:21
azeemfor more details, see the Debian policy22:21
cplI though I had to tell aptitude, via debian control, what the dependencies are22:21
azeembtw, xorg-dev is probably wrong in Build-Depends as well; you should specify the X libraries (e.g. libx11-6)22:21
azeemcpl: shared libraries can be much better figured out dynamically22:21
azeemsee man dpkg-shlibdeps22:22
cplSo I shouldnt mention anything to do with dependencies?22:22
azeemyou should review the Depends: line after package build and add anything which is missing, and rebuild22:23
cplSo, if the package install fails due to a missing dependency, then and only then should I add that dependency to the control file?22:24
azeemI don't think I said that22:24
cplI dont understand how I would review the depends22:26
Ampelbeincpl: it won't fail to install if you missed a dependency. the reason is that the depends: line says apt, what packages are needed to install. you have to see if the application works correctly.22:26
azeemby looking at them22:26
cplAmpelbein, THe last time I built this package I didnt tell control that it needed gtk+-2.0 and it failed to install on any machine except mine22:28
cplI dont get why this is so hard for me to understand22:29
azeemcpl: your control file was wrong then22:29
azeemand/or your debian/rules22:29
azeembecause this kinda stuff is exactly what is being auto-detected22:29
cplIs there a more concise set of documentation for this process anywhere?22:31
azeem23:20 < azeem> see man dpkg-shlibdeps22:31
cplyes, those are docs for one utility22:31
azeemcpl: generally, if you don't mess around with the dh_make generated rules/depends, it should just work22:31
cplthat doesn explain the whole packagine process22:31
azeemcpl: it's not something you can learn in 10 minutes22:32
Ampelbeincpl: thats what the packaging guide is for.22:32
cplcpl, I know it's not, I've been looking at the wiki on and off for a while now22:32
cplit just seems to miss lots if important info22:32
azeemis the wiki the same as the packaging guide?22:32
cplyes22:32
Ampelbeincpl: see also the debian new maintainers guide, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/22:32
cplare the debiand docs directly transferable to ubuntu?22:33
cpl*debian22:33
ajmitchfor the most part, yes22:33
azeemhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete looks pretty useful to me22:34
RoAkSoAxHeya guys, I'm working on a python 2.6 transition. Should the I made changes in aclocal.m4 and configure better be in a patch or should I just apply them directly to those files?22:34
ajmitchprobably in a patch, but get the package fixed in debian as well if it's not already22:35
cplazeem, it is useful, but after reading it I still wasn't sure exactly what was happening in certain parts of the process22:36
azeemcpl: certainly most of the above mistakes are explained there22:36
cplazeem, if that were true I wouldnt of messed the depends line up22:37
RoAkSoAxajmitch, ok thanks22:37
cplit doesnt say anything about "auto calculation"22:37
azeemcpl: maybe you skipped that part22:37
cplno22:37
cplit doesnt tell me what the build process is actually doing22:38
azeem"Depends: The list of packages that the binary package depends on for functionality. For hello, we see ${shlibs:Depends}, which is a variable that is used by dpkg-shlibdeps to add the shared library packages needed by the binaries to Depends:. See the dpkg-source(1) and dpkg-shlibdeps(1) man page for more information. "22:38
cplyeah, that really doesnt go into enoguh depth22:38
cplfor someone that has never dealth with this before22:38
cpland the man pages22:38
azeemit doesn't say you should add build depends there, though22:38
cplThe list of packages that the binary package depends on for functionality22:39
cplto me that says you should22:39
azeem"binary"22:39
cplyes22:39
cplthe build process is making a binary package22:39
azeemand you install the binary package22:39
cplyes22:39
cplBut22:39
azeemso you get the binary package as a result of the build process22:40
cplrite, so it's only logical to conclude that you put your deps on that line22:40
cplso the binary package will call for them via the package manager22:40
cplwhen you are installing22:40
azeemright22:41
azeemso what does that have to do with building?22:41
cplnothing, it doesnt say it does22:41
azeemwhy do you need the X headers to install your binary package?22:41
cplbut it does say you shoudl list dependencies22:41
cplwhich is what I did22:41
cplazeem, I dont know, that what INSTALL says22:41
cpl*that's22:42
cplINSTALL says you need xorg-devel22:42
cplwhich is now known as xorg-dev22:42
azeemthe INSTALL is the source-compile-install documentation22:42
cplyes, and I'm compiling the source into the package22:42
cplactually22:42
cplI see your point22:42
cpldamn22:42
cplIf I'm making these mistakes via the documention I'll be very surprised if other less persistent people haven't, and just given up22:43
azeemcpl: well, you're certainly welcome to provide feedback on the packaging guide I guess22:45
azeem(though I have nothing to do with it)22:46
cplWhen I've got some experience under my belt I certainly will22:46
azeemmaybe you are right, and it should start off with an explanation of terms - what is a binary, what is a source package, how do you build a binary from a source package22:46
cplI think an top down explanation of the process would of helped22:46
cplthen specific details and processes afterwards22:47
azeemit's difficult, a lot of people are not interested in the details and just want a black box that provides them with a working .deb22:47
rippsIs there anybody here with a good understanding of notify-osd? I'm trying to help Qball, the developer of gmpc, to get his libnotify plugin to properly display album images in the notify-osd popups.22:47
=== asac__ is now known as asac
cplazeem, thank you very much, I know have the package built22:55
cplwould you say the best way to keep my chroot clean is to rm it after every package job?22:55
cplI dont like the idea of devel packages laying around that I dont need anymore22:56
ajmitchthat's why pbuilder or sbuild is usually suggested for building22:57
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
ajmitchpbuilder unpacks a tarball for the chroot for each build & cleans it up afterwards22:58
cplI looked into pbuilder, the packaging guide starts off by getting you to install it22:58
cplbut then it doesnt use it22:58
cplSo i set up a chroot instead22:58
cplI'll have to find some decent documentation for pbuilder22:58
cplAs I have no idea how to do anything within it once i've installed it22:59
cpland created a distro with it22:59
ajmitchonce it's setup, it's mostly as case of sudo pbuilder build foo_1.2.3-4.dsc23:00
cplgot the package working23:02
RoAkSoAxHeya guys do you know if the requestsync script is buggy or something?23:03
cplnow I have to go back and sort the copyright details out23:03
cplhaha, that should be fun23:03
RoAkSoAxit shows me this error: IOError: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.23:03
ajmitchprobably the most annoying part of it all23:03
ajmitchRoAkSoAx: and have you managed your credentials for requestsync? :)23:04
RoAkSoAxajmitch, 1. I don't know what that means and 2. I was request syncs couple of weeks ago and did not have any issues23:05
RoAkSoAxnever mind I missed a -s23:06
ajmitchI was about to ask if you read the manpage as it said23:06
ajmitchbecause that's been requestsync's behaviour for a little while now23:07
RoAkSoAxajmitch, yeah well in the help says that the -s option is optional. however it showed me that message (with python errors) if I didn't use that option... so I just used it and was ok23:09
RoAkSoAxany python packager expert around?23:29
=== asac_ is now known as asac
AmpelbeinRoAkSoAx: just ask you question, maybe someone can help.23:35
RainCTRoAkSoAx: Just ask. If you get no answer here you can also try in #debian-python on OFTC.23:41
RoAkSoAxwell I'm trying to merge sugar-hulahop, and I'm adding support for python2.6 and I just would like someone to review my patch to see if the changes that I've done are the right thing to do. Here is my patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/203192/23:44
RainCTRoAkSoAx: looks good to me, if it works23:47
pochuhuh23:47
pochuisn't aclocal.m4 autogenerated?23:47
pochuyou should likely autoconf the page23:48
pochuor autoreconf23:48
pochuor autohell :)23:48
pochuor aclocal even23:48
RoAkSoAxRainCT, thanks.23:51
RoAkSoAxpochu, so I should do autoreconf ? any guide that I can follow?23:51

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