[00:00] if you have the debs in /var/cache/apt/archives/, you can use ..install binpackage=version [00:01] ya, they aren't there anymore :/ [00:01] did you see bryce's mention in u-devel about the debs in his ppa? [00:02] nixternal: nah, I'd say it's somewhere in gdebi-gtk>>dpkg, since gdebi-gtk gives dpkg: unable to read filedescriptor flags for : Bad file descriptor [00:02] ya I did actually, what is his ppa [00:02] ...whereas gdebi from terminal works without problems [00:02] deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bryceharrington/ppa/ubuntu karmic main [00:03] thank you [00:03] np [00:03] hahahaha, I was trying to move my mouse to copy that :p can't do that w/o X [00:04] you can do it with gpm, if you get used to it. [00:04] ok gonna test out #NM 0.7.1 . if I don't come back, blame @asac ... ;) [00:08] dtchen: thanks dude, that fixed it [00:08] ahh, I love my KDE when I can use it :) [00:09] * genii throws un unknown widget error at nixternal! [00:09] * nixternal throws the widget back [00:09] who needs silly widgets anyways :p [00:09] True, true [00:09] oops [00:09] nixternal: did you really say that? [00:10] I haven't seen anything under my Konsole in a long time anyways :) [00:10] Plasmoids are soooo cool [00:10] oh they are, I just need to start utilizing them after I write them :) [00:10] I hope a day I can drag one from my LCD to a phone screen [00:11] kwin is crashing here since my latest update of karmic, any quick fix please? :) [00:12] nixternal: any clue? :) [00:13] bobesponja: why yes, I know how to fix it [00:13] deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bryceharrington/ppa/ubuntu karmic main [00:13] sudo apt-get update [00:13] sudo apt-get upgrade [00:13] cool, thanks a lot [00:13] add that to /etc/apt/sources.list of course [00:14] bobesponja: just fixed that about 2 minutes before you joined the channel [00:14] nixternal: yeah I saw your latest message and suspected exactly that [00:14] you get to kdm, log in, it starts and then crashes back out to kdm? [00:14] yes [00:15] if so, then yes, what I just said will fix it, or at least should fix it [00:15] intel video? [00:15] yep [00:15] I'm using plasma-desktop from xfce right now, but it I start kwin I get the same error [00:15] nixternal: took you a while, but now you don't miss users confirming it [00:15] right, earlier I couldn't get anyone on my side [00:16] I need to do the same on my GNOME box too so I can get it back up and working [00:17] back in a bit all [00:33] anyone else experiencing problem w/ GNOME? [00:33] in ubuntu+1 that is [00:34] pace_t_zulu: That is a _very_ generic description ;) [00:35] arand: login doesn' [00:35] t complete [00:35] arand: failsafe GNOME doesn't complete login either [00:35] pace_t_zulu: In what way, black or white screen? ... [00:36] arand: see the desktop wallpaper... panels come up... notify window showing network is connected... then screen goes blank and back to login splash... not enough time for the Ubuntu login audio to complete [00:37] arand, do you know where the relevant log files might be? [00:37] arand, i can get to failsafe terminal [00:38] Uhm, no, I had some problems with it going to white or black screen every now and then but that seems to be a completely different thing [00:38] arand, i think this could be visual effects... but i don't know where i might find logs that would indicate what is causing the problem [00:39] /var/log/gdm might be something... [00:41] arand, yeat that's what i'm looking at... in /var/log/gdm/:0.log.2 the last line is "Saw signal 11. Server aborting." [00:42] arand, see the same thing in /var/log/gdm/:0.log.3 [00:43] arand, i /var/log/gdm/:0.log.1 and /var/log/gdm/:0.log.4 i see " ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log" [00:45] pace_t_zulu: sounds like bug #391808 [00:45] Launchpad bug 391808 in mesa "[i945] Xorg crash in intel_renderbuffer_set_region() on Dell XPS 1330" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391808 [00:46] Wicla: yeah i've got Intell chipset... i think 965M [00:46] Had the same problem. A fix is submitted in that bug report that fixes it :) [00:48] Wicla, the fix being Bryce's PPA? [00:48] yeah. [00:56] Wicla, thank you ... problem solved [00:57] i have another problem w/ karmic ... I was using the BCM 43xx STA driver in Jaunty... when i upgraded to Karmic this went away (not even an option on "Hardware Drivers" ... anyone know how to resolve this issue? [01:08] anyone know how to resolve my BCM 43xx WiFi driver issue? [01:11] sudo apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source, or just unblacklist b43 and ssb to use the kernel drivers [01:11] Sarvatt, thank you ... [01:11] Sarvatt, how do i "unblacklist" ? [01:12] i dont know exactly what file the old driver put the blacklist in, it would be one of the ones in /etc/modprobe.d/ [01:13] Sarvatt: thank you [01:18] Sarvatt, the method for dealing w/ the blacklist seems to be addressed here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248141 [01:18] Sarvatt, thank you for pointing me in the right direction [01:19] ah, I was asking you for the output of ls /etc/modprobe.d/ to try to walk you through it in a PM, but looks like you found a guide :) [01:19] Sarvatt, sorry missed the pm [01:19] in one of those files you'll find blacklist b43 and blacklist ssb, you want to remove the # in front of those [01:19] err you want to ADD a # in front of those, sorry [01:34] Sarvatt, commenting out those lines does not resolve the issue after i purged bcmwl-kernel-sources [01:35] look through the other files in /etc/modprobe.d/, the old STA drivers probably didnt use that one [01:35] Sarvatt, i also commented out 'blacklist bcm43xx" in blacklist.conf [01:36] i dont know why you installed bcmwl-kernel-source and then commented it out and then purged bcmwl-kernel-source [01:36] just reinstall bcmwl-kernel-source :) [01:36] Sarvatt, i commented out all lines in blacklist-bcm43.conf [01:37] Sarvatt, i purged bcmwl-kernel-source because i prefer not to have unnecessary packages on my system [01:38] Sarvatt, it seems as if the bcmwl-kernel-source resolved the issue... the modprobe.d blacklist had no effect [01:39] because the old STA drivers were blacklisting b43 and ssb somewhere else, the blacklist-bcm43.conf was probably installed by bcmwl-kernel-source [01:42] Sarvatt, so i need to find any blacklist command referring to bcm and comment it out? [01:45] i suppose i just need to install bcmwl-kernel-source again [01:59] so Sarvant... wireless networking is not an option in my notification tray... but the driver is indicated to be active in "Hardware Drivers" [02:04] Sarvatt, bcmwl-kernel-source uncomments the blacklisted items [02:10] Sarvatt, is bcmwl-kernel-source required? or can this issue be resolved with the correct blacklist configuration? === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [02:38] Sarvatt: you deal with the radeon-kms PPA, right? [02:39] I'm trying it on a Radeon 7500, and I'm getting this: [02:39] er [02:39] (EE) AIGLX error: Calling driver entry point failed [02:39] KMS itself is working (now that I removed the xinput2 PPA packages), but DRI is not -- it's using swrast. [02:44] damn. [03:08] ah, I got help in #radeon. [03:08] I just have to compile my own mesa. [03:12] To use libdrm-radeon1, probably, yes. [03:13] what version of mesa do you have DanaG ? [03:14] http://pastebin.com/f582b2036 -- that's *drm* and *radeon* [03:15] seems a fix is coming DanaG for mesa [03:15] 7.6.0~git20090624.bc5c40d7-0ubuntu0sarvatt [03:15] apt-cache policy mesa-common-dev [03:16] what does that show? [03:16] Installed: 7.4.1-1ubuntu3 [03:16] Candidate: 7.6.0~git20090621.df70d304-0ubuntu0sarvatt2 [03:16] mesa (7.4.1-1ubuntu6) karmic; urgency=low [03:16] Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed: 379797 [03:16] bug 379797 [03:17] Is that for with r100/r200 KMS? [03:17] Launchpad bug 379797 in mesa "(Needs mesa 7.5rc2) mesa doesn't install dri.pc" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379797 [03:17] is that your problem? [03:17] Yeah, I'm using the KMS repo. [03:17] check the pastebinned thingg. [03:17] DanaG, which one is that? [03:17] oooh missed the pastebin :P [03:18] I've tried the 7.6 one; no change. [03:18] ...are you using the kernel in the PPA? [03:18] DanaG, i mean what is the kms repo [03:18] (notice its a lower version than in ubuntu right now) [03:19] Yeah, I'm booted into -9kms4 (or whatever that '4' was). [03:19] gmake[5]: INSTALL@: Command not found [03:19] that's a strange error. [03:19] (in trying to compile my own mesa.) [03:20] why? the mesa in the ppa uses libdrm-radeon1 [03:20] lemme' show you the xorg log. [03:20] Driver entry point failed, is what I get. [03:20] theres another problem, probably didnt revert absolutely everything when you switched [03:21] (EE) AIGLX error: Calling driver entry point failed [03:22] xorg should be ubuntu packages, all 4 libdrm's should be 2.4.11+git20090617.2fa2db13-0ubuntu0sarvatt [03:22] xserver-xorg-video-ati should be 1:6.12.2.99+git20090605+radeon-gem-cs3.7a514a75-0ubuntu0tormod3 [03:24] dpkg -l *mesa* *xorg* *radeon* *drm*: [03:24] or wait, apt-cache policy is better... lemme' pastebin that. [03:24] i didn't know the radeon driver still used aiglx [03:25] ugh, apt-cache policy won't take wildcards. [03:26] dpkg -l | grep sarvatt or grep tormod :) [03:26] if you have more than drm and mesa in my name it needs to be downgraded [03:27] http://pastebin.com/f1309edbe [03:27] # [03:27] # [03:27] ii drm-modules-source 2.4.11+git20090604+libdrm-radeon.2cb4c64d-0ubuntu0tormod3 Source for the DRM kernel rendering modules [03:27] you installed drm-modules-source and wiped out drm from the kernel [03:27] purge it, reinstall the kernel [03:27] modinfo drm [03:28] filename: /lib/modules/2.6.30-9-generic/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/drm.ko [03:28] # [03:28] # [03:28] ii mesa-utils 7.6.0~git20090624.bc5c40d7-0ubuntu0sarvatt Miscellaneous Mesa GL utilities [03:28] downgrade that [03:29] you dont have intel but this needs to be downgraded if you use intel later # [03:29] # [03:29] ii xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.7.99.901+git20090624.f0270bbb-0ubuntu0sarvatt X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display d [03:29] To another your-name one, or back to bare ubuntu? [03:29] everything from xorg-edgers isnt portable anywhere else right now because of the dri2proto changes [03:29] just sudo apt-get install mesa-utils/karmic xserver-xorg-video-intel/karmic [03:29] sudo apt-get purge drm-modules-source [03:29] 7.6.0~git20090621.df70d304-0ubuntu0sarvatt2 0 [03:30] that's the other. [03:30] 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic/main Packages [03:30] stupid apt-cache... doesn't show WHICH ppa. [03:30] iyep thats the right one [03:31] Might be good to add a bit of the PPA name to the package version. [03:31] =P [03:32] The only currently-visible difference is commit number and date. [03:32] Oh yeah, I tried MPX (on an nvidia-based thingy)... fun. [03:32] Too bad nothing is compiled to use it. [03:32] MPX works as part of the xinput2, of course. [03:33] And nvidia is quite glitchy with cursor drawing. [03:33] * DanaG restarts gdm... [03:35] yay, that worked. [03:35] Thanks! [03:35] (oh yeah, I'm running finch in screen. Quite a winning combination.) [03:36] Checking for non power of two support: Not present. [03:37] DanaG, are you using my xi2 ppa? [03:37] Was now, but not anymore. [03:37] ppa packages are supposed to end with ~ppa but the system doesn't reject the upload if they don't [03:37] https://edge.launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/xorg-testing [03:38] ah ok [03:38] But that doesn't help with having MULTIPLE ppa archives. [03:38] it just recently added support for >255 keys [03:38] (remember you having a problem with that) [03:38] ooooooooh! Sweeet, [03:38] . [03:39] Too bad I killed (as in, firmware wedged in a bad state) the laptop that uses that... so I have to try it once I send it out and get it back. [03:39] =P [03:39] you're using a newer kernel in that ppa than is in karmic [03:39] i think [03:41] Linux GLaDOS 2.6.30-9-generic #10kms6-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jun 15 19:25:59 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux [03:41] http://pastebin.com/f13b8925a [03:42] that's glxinfo [03:43] odd... NPOT is missing. [03:45] I wonder if that secondary card (a no-display-attached voodoo3 that doesn't even have tdfx load) would do it. [03:45] NOte that the tdfx driver is not loading. [03:46] That reminds me... I wanna' reboot with that card as primary, just for the hell of it. === hggdh_ is now known as hggdh [04:29] DanaG, how old is the voodoo card? [04:29] Voodoo3. [04:29] http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/tdfx [04:30] er, probably 1999-2000-ish. [04:36] DanaG: there have been a bunch of fixes in that area since the mesa in the radeon-kms PPA but we cant update mesa in there until theres a newer kernel :) [04:36] the ppas and you have linux-libc-dev from 2.6.30-10 which doesnt have the radeon KMS stuff in it [04:36] DanaG, does it work or what? [04:37] it'll be better once 2.6.31-rc1 comes out === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth [04:54] The voodoo3 doesn't give DRI -- screen-res and color depth are too high. [04:54] I'd have to make Xorg start at 16-bit color, for one. [04:55] oh yeah, and compiz on the radeon isn't working -- reports no NPOT. [04:55] Linux GLaDOS 2.6.30-9-generic #10kms6-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jun 15 19:25:59 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux [04:55] that's uname -a. [05:00] DanaG: What did you expect? [05:01] On what? The radeon? [05:01] either one [05:01] Without the KMS PPA stuff, NPOT is fine on the RV200. [05:01] what kind of radeon is it? [05:01] ah, rv200 [05:01] Radeon 7500. [05:01] ok then, bug in the KMS stuff [05:03] What's the difference between R100 and RV200... and between RV200 and R200? [05:04] real R200 is 8500, isn't it? [05:04] yeah, I believe so [05:04] pretty sure the RV200 is the R200 with stuff taken out though [05:04] vs an R100 with stuff added [05:05] http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon#head-fe8db4f01efc841aa992be504f62d77518eaab10 [05:07] is aiglx going to be taken out with the 2.6.31 kernel? [05:10] argh, where's my NPOT? [05:11] bjsnider: isn't aiglx part of xorg ? [05:12] i think aiglx is software 3d rendering [05:12] which shouldn't be necessary with ttm [05:12] bjsnider: isn't TTM a memory manager ? [05:13] http://www.x.org/wiki/ttm [05:13] ttm makes hardware 3d rendering possible [05:14] hardware 3d rendering is currently possible afaik. [05:14] where are you getting this information from ? [05:14] it isn't wihtout a memory manager [05:14] AIGLX is Accelerated Indirect GLX [05:14] Indirect GLX is normally software rendering, AIGLX makes it hardware rendering [05:15] oh, and: DRM version 1.0 too old to support HyperZ, disabling. [05:15] It has a slight overhead versus direct rendering but not enough to matter for things like compiz (the only that that needs it) [05:15] but direct rendering is possible with ttm no? [05:15] DanaG: Ah, the DRM version changed and the driver is turning stuff off based on that [05:15] bjsnider: direct rendering is possible now [05:16] People talk in this channel? [05:16] Exciting! [05:16] but not without a memory manager [05:16] bjsnider: What isn't currently possible is pbuffers, framebuffer objects, and texture_from_pixmap [05:16] I'm also getting horrid font corruption. [05:16] note those are all somewhat related [05:16] Ugh. [05:16] bjsnider: No, AIGLX is only used for compiz on your system right now [05:16] bjsnider: all other 3D apps are using direct rendering [05:17] bjsnider: the TTM allows other things, it doesn't really have much to do with 3d in its self . [05:17] so aiglxis all about the compositing [05:17] www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png [05:17] Might need capital S. [05:17] yeah. [05:17] bjsnider: The purpose of the TTM implementaion is to provide tools for buffer object placement, caching, mapping and synchronization [05:17] TTM allows for mode setting and those things I mentioned above [05:18] UUgh, have to restart Xoreg. [05:18] at what point does it become possible for the open source drivers to abandon aiglx? [05:18] bjsnider: Why would they? It's useful for remote X sessions [05:18] bjsnider: in order to do what exactly ? [05:18] to use composite direct rendering [05:19] bjsnider: but why ? i don't see what you gain [05:19] bjsnider: AIGLX was always a TODO, it was just low priority until 3D compositing needed it [05:19] i only see what you loose [05:19] bjsnider: On my system right now (intel) I have GEM, UXA, and DRI2 so I run compiz without AIGLX [05:19] oh, and: DRM version 1.0 too old to support HyperZ, disabling. [05:20] oops, already said that. [05:20] but there is no reason to remove AIGLX, it is useful for remote sessions [05:20] like if I start up an X server on my machine and run glxgears on your machine without AIGLX it'll use software rendering [05:20] Would be best with gigabit ethernet. [05:20] Amaranth, how's that working these days? [05:20] Okay, now what do I do? [05:20] with AIGLX it'll use the hardware on my machine to do the rendering [05:21] bjsnider: pretty well, KMS is not so nice though [05:21] I lost my brightness control and my screen is locked to full brightness [05:21] well, forget kms [05:21] http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot.png [05:21] Intel had better fix that before the 9.10 release or people will scream [05:21] DanaG: You showed that already [05:21] DanaG: The answer is (turn off KMS) [05:21] fixed the case. [05:21] err, "" not () [05:21] Amaranth: that issue is in F11 too i believe. you should be able to use kde / gnome brightness controls though [05:21] just before jaunty was released you told me it would be a year before the intel driver was fixed [05:22] mase_work: No, my monitor does not expose any brightness controls [05:22] ah ok [05:22] Desktop, or laptop? [05:22] mase_work: It's all in the video chip and the kernel does not expose that interface [05:22] fair enough. [05:22] ... or all-in-one? [05:22] mase_work: I believe the plan is for the kernel to expose the interface and the intel xorg driver to use it to emulate the way it has always worked before [05:22] laptop [05:23] bjsnider: They suddenly put the breaks on features and spent months improving it [05:23] err, brakes [05:23] i see hahaha [05:23] it's still not as good as before [05:23] i think that's what i said would happen [05:24] but they also now have a new tool to see why things suck [05:24] but you cynically refused to believ it [05:24] bjsnider: I still think it'll be a long time before it even gets back to where it was before and all this new stuff promised to make it better and faster [05:25] oh come on [05:25] even when it's using gallium [05:25] and it will be the first drive to use it [05:25] bjsnider: yeah, gallium won't be for some time [05:25] nouveau is the first to use it, afaik [05:26] i doon't think so. it is being developed at the same time as gallium [05:26] * billybigrigger needs to read more about KMS [05:26] * billybigrigger doesn't know what all the fuss is about :P [05:27] seems you intel and ati users are pretty pissed about this whole KMS deal :P [05:27] who cares. ubuntu isn't even going to use kms [05:27] bjsnider: actually nouveau has driven the advances in gallium recently [05:27] bjsnider: karmic has KMS on by default for intel now [05:27] that's why I'm using it [05:28] I booted, saw it, have been too lazy to reboot to fix it [05:28] it won't be much use if karmic boots in 10 seconds [05:28] uh, you're thinking of plymouth [05:28] kernel modesetting is used for X too [05:29] KMS is required to get ubuntu booting that fast [05:29] also, karmic won't boot in 10 seconds [05:29] are you sure? [05:29] the goal is for 10.04 to go from grub to fully loaded desktop in 10 seconds on a Dell Mini 9 [05:29] my jaunty boots in 15 if you exclude grub [05:29] quickest i had jaunty was 15s, and that was around A4, about beta/final it was back to 21s :P and haven't seen anything faster so far [05:30] fully loaded standard GNOME desktop, not netbook remix [05:30] is this according to bootchart or a stopwatch? [05:30] probably both [05:30] you can tweak bootchart to chart login too [05:30] Oh yeah, and KMS can make usplash look better, too. [05:31] we won't have any splash [05:31] i could cut it down if i eliminated grub's boot time [05:31] My good laptop (the one with the R600) boots a relatively fresh Karmic in 20 seconds. Sweeet. [05:31] black screen to desktop [05:31] no time for a splash :P [05:31] Jaunty was 35. [05:31] i don't see what's so great about kms [05:31] 5 seconds of black screen is no big deal [05:31] Not having monitor do glitchy mode-switch thing would be nice. [05:32] bjsnider: better suspend/resume, faster startup, flicker free boot [05:32] And having gdm draw right over usplash... would be nice. [05:32] startup and boot are insignificant [05:32] the kernel already has to set a mode, might as well set the one everything else is going to use and save some time [05:32] and HAVING NON-POWER OF TWO TEXTURE SUPPORT *cough* *hack* *wheeze* [05:33] =P [05:33] is there a flicker on boot? [05:33] Well, it takes a while before KMS decides to initialize, for some reason, for me. [05:37] bjsnider: there is the mode set for your BIOS splash screen the the mode set by grub then the mode set for your system [05:37] and that's the end [05:37] does usplash+kms work for anyone? [05:38] without KMS you get BIOS, grub, kernel, usplash, sometimes another flash during usplash, then gdm [05:38] how do I find out what version DRM actually is? [05:38] me needs hellllppplplpllpppp. [05:38] =P [05:38] but are flashes a big problem that requires an entirely new graphics driver, when graphics drivers are already years of painstaking work [05:39] 2.4.11 [05:39] DanaG::: thats what i have [05:39] Hmm. So why is it saying "1.0 is too old"? [05:41] what is saying that? [05:41] all the libdrm* packages i see are version 2.4.11 [05:41] I enabled hyperz in driconf... and now glxinfo spits that out. [05:41] And I also get lack of non-power-of-two support! [05:42] no idea [05:42] im lost on this one :P [05:43] ah, have to autogen. [05:47] dmesg DanaG [05:47] [ 2.374678] [drm] Initialized drm 1.1.0 20060810 [05:47] Still, shouldn't it say "1.1" is too old? [05:48] oh, and why is it using such an old drm module? [05:48] It's from the PPA. [05:48] you say this like radeon KMS support is anywhere near being as bug free as you are expecting :D [05:49] Well, I don't expect it to be calling itself from 2006. =P [05:49] s/calling itself/stating that it's/ [05:49] did you reinstall your kernel after purging drm-kernel-source? if so i dont know what to tell you [05:51] If it were really that old... would KMS even be working? [06:00] http://pastebin.com/f50e6c5f7 [06:00] dang, same. [06:00] 1.1.0. [06:02] the DDX might be broken, will look into it tomorrow [06:02] Ah, that works for me -- thanks. [06:02] I should go to bed soon, anyway. [06:02] Oh yeah, and when not giving that texture corruption... the 2D is being faster than it was before. [06:03] [drm] Initialized radeon 2.0.0 20080528 for 0000:02:00.0 on minor 0 [06:04] your drm is fine, its probably the ddx needing an update [06:06] hmm it might actually need to be built against xserver with dri2proto 2.1 [06:07] ugh yeah, that is crappy right now because of the linux-libc-dev problem, need a newer kernel in there to build all this [06:08] grr, damn HID devices don't deal well with USB autosuspend. [06:09] wont be able to fix this up until 2.6.31-rc1 most likely, should be any day now [06:18] Will R600 get KMS in time? [06:18] KMS and 2D acceleration, OR just 3D for compiz -- either would be great. [06:19] Anyone else seeing failures to mount NTFS? [06:21] yeah they're working on it, i wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt really fully usable until next year though :D most of the effort is going into things not supported by fglrx now [06:21] So basically, we want to support things that fglrx doesn't, and halfassedly support things that fglrx does? [06:22] Sounds like free software to me. [06:22] more like, supporting things not supported by fglrx is such a huge task they need to focus on that for now [06:22] We need a fglrx for 2.6.30, though. [06:22] Even if not for 2.6.31. [06:22] yet. [06:22] Sarvatt: Right, but why is that the effort? [06:23] My commentary wasn't directed at the size of the effort, it was an underhanded comment on the state of priorities in free software. [06:23] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives//karmic-changes/2009-June/003139.html [06:23] because theres more than 400 pci ids to support vs the 30 or so intel has and huge changes between each generation [06:24]