[07:06] <pitti> Good morning
[07:28] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[07:29] <pitti> hey ajmitch, how are you?
[07:29] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[07:30] <pitti> great, thanks
[07:30] <pitti> in good hacking mood these days :)
[07:30] <ajmitch> excellent :)
[07:30]  * ajmitch is getting back into mangling packages for fun & profit
[07:35] <StevenK> ajmitch: Profit, you say?
[07:37] <ajmitch> well, that'd be nice
[07:38] <ajmitch> though I do get to do a tiny bit of stuff with work
[07:39] <ajmitch> since I tend to need things like apache2, mysql & php5 for work
[07:40] <StevenK> Wrong channel for that :-P
[07:41] <ajmitch> I know :)
[07:43] <ajmitch> but there are worse things for me to do, I'm sure
[08:10] <didrocks> morning o/
[08:19] <huats> morning
[08:21] <huats> robert_ancell: are you around ?
[08:21] <robert_ancell> huats, yup
[08:21] <huats> robert_ancell: hey robert
[08:21] <robert_ancell> huats, hows life?
[08:21] <huats> just to let you know that anjuta is updated
[08:22] <huats> robert_ancell: quite good :)
[08:22] <huats> you ?
[08:23] <robert_ancell> huats, life is good here.  Looking forwards to some Northern hemisphere Summer :)
[08:23] <huats> hehe
[08:23] <huats> you'll have that in GUADEC :)
[08:23] <robert_ancell> And I'm actually nearing the end of the compiz bugs! <150 to triage...
[08:23] <huats> congrats !
[08:23] <huats> :)
[08:24] <huats> actually I am in the northen hemispherebut it is very grey today
[08:24] <huats> Regarding anjuta, right now I am waiting for someone to merge the anjuta branch  that I have created with the one of the desktop team
[08:24] <huats> seb128: !
[08:24] <huats> hello
[08:24] <huats> :)
[08:25] <seb128> lut huats
[08:25] <robert_ancell> I created that branch, I guess we should delete it?
[08:25] <seb128> starting early today? ;-)
[08:25] <robert_ancell> seb128, hi
[08:25] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[08:25] <huats> robert_ancell: no non don't delete it
[08:25] <huats> seb128: indeed :)
[08:25] <huats> robert_ancell: keep that branch and someone will merge mine with yours...
[08:26] <robert_ancell> huats, I was wondering if the ubuntu-desktop team is the correct group to own the branch - ideas anyone?
[08:27] <seb128> what package are you talking about?
[08:27] <huats> robert_ancell: it is the right one, anjuta is part of gnome
[08:27] <robert_ancell> anjuta
[08:27] <huats> (well from my point of view)
[08:27] <seb128> not really since the package is in universe and theorically those having upload right should have commit access too
[08:27]  * robert_ancell has been putting many packages into bzr - I love bzr-buildpackage
[08:27] <huats> seb128: ok
[08:27] <seb128> waiting for archive reorganization to get that solved
[08:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, that's what I was thinking - is there an appropriate group for package branches that are in universe?
[08:28] <robert_ancell> ok
[08:28] <seb128> the universe split is artificial, we will get a desktop team which has right on those packages soon I guess
[08:28] <seb128> not that I know about
[08:28] <seb128> but we can keep merging those until archive reorganization
[08:28] <seb128> ie use ubuntu-desktop even if that's not ideal
[08:28] <robert_ancell> At least branches are easy to transfer
[08:28] <seb128> right
[08:28] <huats> seb128: so I think it won't harm to keep anjuta in the desktop branch since it is a good thing to have that in bzr
[08:29] <robert_ancell> seb128, I've got compiz to <500 bugs
[08:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, waouh!
[08:29] <robert_ancell> (and not by just closing them all :))
[08:29] <huats> seb128: same question about glom, can I continue to track someone to create the glom branch in the desktop team ?
[08:30] <seb128> not closing, just reassigning to xorg or drivers?
[08:30] <seb128> ;-)
[08:30] <huats> seb128: or incomplete :D
[08:30] <seb128> huats, I don't care about this one and I think it can stay out of the vcs but that's only my opinion
[08:30] <huats> seb128: ok
[08:31] <robert_ancell> well, some went to xorg... But there are a lot of duplicates too
[08:31]  * huats thinks that seb128's opinion matters a bit :P
[08:31] <seb128> lol
[08:31] <seb128> robert_ancell, did you find any interesting bugs to fix on the way?
[08:32] <seb128> robert_ancell, if you have some time to look at make compiz start faster that would be nice too
[08:33] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, there are a shortlist of ~10 I want to look at.  Two of them have been marked papercuts
[08:33] <robert_ancell> I'm not really interested in investing too much time in performance until we know what the future of the 0.8 series is (and compiz in general).  I suspect we could waste a lot of time in it
[08:34] <seb128> well we have this 10 seconds target for karmic+1
[08:34] <robert_ancell> Also to make things really annoying compiz doesn't run on my hardware currently which makes testing hard.  I need to ask mvo how to get it to run with software rendering or something
[08:34] <seb128> and it seems we will not switch to any other compiz codebase this cycle not next one
[08:35] <seb128> not this cycle because there is nothing ready to switch
[08:35] <robert_ancell> seb128, I'll look at performance but it seems to me there are more important stability and usability bugs at present
[08:35] <seb128> and not next cycle because a lts is not the cycle to switch
[08:35] <seb128> alright, that's fair enough
[08:36] <robert_ancell> I think the best thing we could do is remove ccsm from the repositories entirely - that would reduce the number of bugs massively!!
[08:36] <seb128> we just have people wanting those fast start very much so if we find some easy targets to make things faster we should look at that too
[08:36] <seb128> because the tools is buggy? or because many of the bugs are due to people playing with weird options?
[08:37] <robert_ancell> the number of bugs which go: "If you enable a+b+c+d and disable e and wait for 9.2 seconds then something obscure happens..."
[08:37] <robert_ancell> give everyone levers and they love to pull them
[08:37] <seb128> well don't give them the option and they will get it by some other crackful way
[08:38] <didrocks> hey seb128 and robert_ancell
[08:38] <seb128> we could have some apport hook to auto-tag bugs when some options are on
[08:38] <robert_ancell> yes, we need to detect they're doing it and pop up a dialog saying "bad user! No support for you!"
[08:38] <seb128> well apport can do that
[08:39] <seb128> so if we decide some options are too buggy we could display a "try without that option before opening a bug"
[08:39] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's on my burndown chart
[08:39] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:39] <robert_ancell> didrocks, hey
[08:39] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:39] <mvo> hey seb128 and robert_ancell
[08:40] <robert_ancell> mvo, is there a way to run compiz in software rendering so I can test functionality and be sure it's not a driver issue?
[08:40] <robert_ancell> mvo, morning
[08:40] <seb128> didrocks, gnome-python-desktop didn't build because it wants bug-buddy which is in universe
[08:40] <seb128> didrocks, any reason why it needs to be installed to build?
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: hum? normally, gnome-python-desktop doesn't build-dep on bug-buddy :/
[08:43] <didrocks> let me check
[08:43] <bigon> seb128: he, any objection if I upload a new revision of empathy pkg with webkit support as the pkg still in universe
[08:44] <seb128> didrocks, so soyuz when crazy
[08:44] <seb128> bigon, no, got for it
[08:44] <Zdra> bigon: do we have geoclue/champlain in karmic too?
[08:44] <bigon> I will drop libidicate patch too, cassidy was not happy with it yesterday
[08:44] <bigon> Zdra: it will go in the ppa in a first time
[08:45] <Zdra> bigon: it got applied in karmic's package?
[08:45] <bigon> yeah
[08:45] <bigon> (and the ppa one)
[08:45] <Zdra> bigon: what's the point of proposing a patch upstream, get rejected with a list of comment long as the bible if it's applied in packages?
[08:46] <seb128> Zdra, it was applied in the package before anybody commented on it on the upstream bug
[08:46] <Zdra> seb128: and?
[08:46] <seb128> and that's not a constructive comment
[08:46] <Zdra> seb128: that means the patch is perfect?
[08:46] <seb128> how people can know there will be comments if they are not there yet?
[08:46] <Zdra> seb128: don't propose upstream if you don't wait for the reply...
[08:47] <seb128> lol
[08:47] <seb128> welcome to reality
[08:47] <seb128> we have fixes waiting for upstream for years
[08:47] <seb128> should we stop fixing any bug or doing any change waiting for upstream to maybe reply a day?
[08:47] <Zdra> especially since we get bug reports because of that patch
[08:47] <seb128> we do changes, upload and send the change upstream, and update when we get comments
[08:48] <bigon> I have another issue
[08:48] <bigon> enabling geoloc and webkit and webkit add symbols to library
[08:48] <seb128> don't enable geoloc
[08:48] <baptiste> hey
[08:49] <seb128> lut baptiste
[08:49] <bigon> yeah missing () around geoloc :)
[08:49] <bigon> but if we disable webkit in the futur it will breaks API
[08:49] <baptiste> bigon: I had a strange issue with latest empathy in karmic (pushed yesterday) the UI was not visible neither the icon in the tray
[08:49] <seb128> is there anything making use of those apis right now?
[08:49] <baptiste> salut seb128
[08:49] <bigon> seb128: non
[08:49] <seb128> so it's not really an issue for now
[08:50] <bigon> baptiste: it's maybe related to the indicate patch, I will remove it in the next upload
[08:50] <Zdra> baptiste: that's because ubuntu apply patches without taking care of upstream comments
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - on the subject of upstream changes, I'm going to send a patch upstream later which resolves 337441. do you want to apply the patch in Ubuntu or wait for some upstream comments?
[08:51] <seb128> Zdra, stop this fus
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> good morning btw
[08:51] <seb128> Zdra, stop this fud
[08:51] <bigon> Zdra: ... it was before cassidy comments it
[08:51] <seb128> Zdra, that's not constructive behaviour
[08:51] <baptiste> Zdra: this is because you're too slow to answer :)
[08:51] <Zdra> bigon: we made comments ages ago
[08:51] <seb128> bug #337441
[08:52] <seb128> Zdra, and the version uploaded is exactly the one you commented on?
[08:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, wait for upstream comments I would say
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, no problem. it's quite a big patch
[08:52] <Zdra> seb128: well, obviously the guy who made the patch didn't test it
[08:53] <Zdra> seb128: it crash, it hide status icon
[08:53] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[08:53] <Zdra> seb128: and then it's upstream who gets bugs
[08:53] <Zdra> thanks
[08:53] <seb128> Zdra, you win nothing going the confrontational way there
[08:53] <seb128> let's calm down and fix issues
[08:54] <Zdra> seb128: 2nd time ubuntu add patch in its package for empathy without taking care of upstream
[08:54] <bigon> Zdra: cassidy comment 2009-06-24 16:58 UTC, changelog entry Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:43:15 +0200
[08:54] <Zdra> seb128: 2nd time the patch has to be reverted
[08:54] <Zdra> (hm, not sure the 1st got reverted in the end...)
[08:54] <seb128> Zdra, second time, trying to dictate us what to do is not constructive behaviour
[08:55] <seb128> Zdra, the patch has been added by bigon btw
[08:58] <mvo> robert_ancell: uh, not that I know of - I use different machines with different video cards to test
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: I updated the gnome-python-desktop bzr branch. I didn't pay attention to this uneeded build-dep I have already removed before the remerge with debian :/ It should be fixed now
[09:20] <seb128> didrocks, ok thanks
[09:20] <didrocks> seb128: btw, that's strange that I didn't received the soyuz FTBFS... I checked my spam too :/
[09:20] <didrocks> seb128: sorry for the extra work
[09:20] <seb128> didrocks, it didn't ftbfs so it didn't email
[09:20] <didrocks> ok
[09:20] <seb128> didrocks, I was just surprised to not see the binarines in the new queue
[09:20] <seb128> so I checked the build logs
[09:20] <seb128> it's dep-waiting on bug-buddy
[09:21] <didrocks> ah, ok :)
[09:21] <didrocks> I bumped the version number, thinking it had FTBFS, is it still necessary in this case?
[09:21] <seb128> yes you can't overwritte a source
[09:22] <didrocks> ok, even if binaries weren't published
[09:23]  * didrocks returns to his strike with {site,dist}-packages :)
[09:31] <seb128> mvo, could you make the "do you want to reboot now" dialog to be shown *after* the upgrade and not while things are still being configured?
[09:32] <seb128> mvo, so people clicking on it don't reboot while update-manager was still working
[09:32] <mvo> seb128: that should already be the case
[09:32] <seb128> not sure on karmic
[09:32] <mvo> seb128: when did you see this behaviour? is it reproducable?
[09:32] <mvo> jaunty too
[09:32] <seb128> not there on karmic
[09:33] <seb128> I get it almost daily on karmic
[09:33] <mvo> wehh
[09:33]  * baptiste seen it in hardy yesterday :)
[09:33] <seb128> it seems that once the linux upgrade is configure it displays the dialog
[09:33] <seb128> but update-manager still configure packages for a minute after that
[09:33] <seb128> configure -> configured
[09:33] <seb128> I used synaptic right now though
[09:34] <seb128> so maybe it's specific to synaptic
[09:34] <seb128> but I think I got it with update-manager earlier this week
[09:35] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I investigate, it really should only show after everything else is finished
[09:35] <seb128> is there any log that would be useful for debugging?
[09:35] <seb128> I've done my daily upgrade now so I can't get one now
[09:35] <seb128> but for the next time I get the issue
[09:38] <mvo> seb128: I can add a debug switch for it, but the theory goes that a pending reboot is only shown after "/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-un-stamp" changed, and that should only change after dpkg is finished with its operation
[09:39] <seb128> mvo, I will keep an eye on it
[09:40] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I will watch out for it too, the code looks ok, but that does not mean it has no bugs :)
[09:40] <seb128> mvo, maybe I'm wrong on what update-manager was doing, maybe that was triggers?
[09:41] <seb128> mvo, the disk was still busy and update manager still showing the progress dialog, not the "done"
[09:41] <seb128> mvo, would the dpkg stamp update before triggers?
[09:42] <mvo> seb128: let me check
[09:58]  * asac extended lunch (running some errands and getting lunch afterwards) ... bbl
[10:14] <cassidy> Zdra: to be fair, I did my full review after the patch has been included in the package and kenvandine has been very responsive so far. Don't be too harsh with them
[10:39] <Laney> pidgin fix time!
[10:39] <Laney> can someone approve the release tasks?
[10:39] <seb128> Laney, bug #nnn?
[10:39] <Laney> bug 389322
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, ^ what do you think?
[10:40] <seb128> I guess it's a good SRU candidate for all stables?
[10:41] <pitti> sure
[10:41] <pitti> similar to the ICQ ones
[10:41] <seb128> pitti, want to accept the nominations? I will do the sponsoring once ready
[10:41]  * pitti approves tasks
[10:41]  * seb128 has some webbrowser issue right now
[10:41] <pitti> hm, dapper desktop is about to EOL
[10:41]  * seb128 kicks epiphany
[10:41] <pitti> but let's fix it there, as a courtesy
[10:42] <Laney> I didn't test if it applies there yet anyway
[10:43] <seb128> is anybody else having issue with combo boxes on launchpad being "stucked" often?
[10:43]  * Laney figures out viewmtn
[10:43] <seb128> ie not accepting changes until the page is refreshed
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: hm, never saw that; which combobox in particular?
[10:43] <seb128> pitti, all the bug settings, importance, status, etc
[10:43] <pitti> hm, I do that all the time
[10:43] <seb128> it does change to the picked value
[10:43] <seb128> doesn't
[10:44] <pitti> works fine here (firefox)
[10:44] <seb128> could be an epiphany-browser specific issue
[10:44] <Laney> Is there a known gtk bug with comboboxes btw? I've seen a couple of applications (claws-mail and banshee) closing when I click on them sometimes
[10:44] <seb128> I've also focus issue, sometime I'm typing a comment and focus moves somewhere else, ie text stop being written
[10:44] <Laney> could be coincidence
[10:44] <seb128> Laney, bug #391398
[10:45] <seb128> Laney, you are welcome to open a bug on bugzilla if you get the issue, I don't get it there
[10:45] <seb128> some people say having it when using scrolling on combos
[10:45] <seb128> but it's stable there
[10:45] <Laney> I'll try, it doesn't trigger apport though
[10:45] <seb128> it's an abort not a crash
[10:45] <Laney> and I can't reliably repro
[10:47] <seb128> vuntz, hey
[10:47] <Laney> ah, the banshee-daily build does it
[10:47]  * Laney reports upstream
[10:48] <seb128> thanks
[10:48] <seb128> I tried to do combo scrolling in evince and nautilus but it's stable
[10:49] <Laney> Install banshee-daily, edit-> preferences-> click top combo
[10:49] <vuntz> seb128: bla
[10:51] <baptiste> coucou vuntz
[10:54] <Laney> looks like gnome bug 586408?
[10:54] <Laney> and bug 389265
[10:56] <seb128> ok
[11:42] <Laney> the pidgin patch is pretty large
[11:42] <seb128> right
[11:56] <pitti> I need to leave for a while, lunch and doctor appointment
[12:11] <seb128> lunch time bbl
[12:34] <rodrigo_> where does dch get my email address from? it always uses rodrigo@cervinia (cervinia is my hostname)
[12:34] <pochu> rodrigo_: DEBEMAIL
[12:34] <pochu> and DEBFULLNAME for your name
[12:34] <pochu> hi btw :)
[12:35] <rodrigo_> hi pochu
[12:35] <rodrigo_> pochu: environment vars you mean?
[12:35] <pochu> yup
[12:35] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:35] <pochu> or in ~/.devscripts
[12:35] <rodrigo_> thanks :)
[12:35] <pochu> I think it's documented in the end of dch(1)
[12:35] <pochu> yw
[12:42] <asac> pochu: can we move liferea to webkit or something?
[12:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you're a G1 fan aren't you?
[12:54] <rodrigo_> to upload a package to my PPA for both jaunty and karmic, is it enough to just change the distro in debian/changelog and submit twice?
[12:55] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson: he is, he even looks like he's working for Google, since he convinced me to buy one :)
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> heh
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> have you seen the HTC Hero?
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> it looks beautiful. i want to get rid of my G1 now ;)
[12:56] <rodrigo_> hmm, no haven't seen it
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/24/htc-introduces-sense-the-first-customized-android-installation-on-its-new-hero/
[12:56] <rodrigo_> my carrier provider only has the HTC dream I think
[12:56] <pochu> asac: yes, we need an update to 1.6
[12:56] <pochu> asac: a merge from Debian experimental would be enough, but I'd rather we update to 1.6.0rc5
[12:57] <didrocks> [14:02] <pochu> asac: yes, we need an update to 1.6
[12:57] <pochu> asac: since 1.5.something we're webkit-only
[12:57] <didrocks> oupss, sorry, playing with putty :)
[12:57] <didrocks> hey pochu o/
[12:57] <pochu> heh
[12:57] <seb128> didrocks, fix your clock it's 13:58
[12:57] <pochu> didrocks: hi :)
[12:57] <pochu> lol
[12:57] <pochu> I have 13:56 here :(
[12:57] <didrocks> seb128: tell it to huats, it's his server (I use my port 443 @home :))
[12:58] <didrocks> even with that, he is always late :p
[12:58] <seb128> ah ok ;-)
[13:02] <asac> pochu: good news. will you prepare 1.6.0?
[13:05] <pochu> asac: 1.6.0rc5 is prepared in git for Debian, just needs an upload
[13:05] <pochu> asac: I'll try to get that uploaded and then we just need to merge it
[13:05] <pochu> how does it sound?
[13:05] <asac> pochu: what changes prevent a sync still? notifications?
[13:06] <pochu> no, that's upstream already
[13:07] <pochu> there's a local "ubuntu-feedlist" patch
[13:07] <pochu> not sure about the other changes
[13:07] <pochu> oh
[13:07] <pochu> there's no more LUA 5.0 support
[13:07] <pochu> but 5.1 in Ubuntu is in universe
[13:08] <asac> can we demote 5.1 in turn?
[13:08] <asac> err 5.0
[13:08] <pochu> I dunno if there's anything else using it
[13:08] <pochu> otherwise, yes
[13:08] <pochu> we could demote 5.0 and promote 5.1 I guess
[13:08] <asac> hmm lua 5.1 has quite a large stack of bin packages
[13:09] <pochu> or just demote liferea for the meantime
[13:09] <pochu> this is just pointless with the archive reorg
[13:09] <asac> yeah
[13:09] <asac> hmm.
[13:09] <pochu> or we can disable lua support for now
[13:09] <asac> so MIRs will go away. will there be anything similar in turn?
[13:09] <pochu> we have a bunch of options ;)
[13:09] <baptiste> asac: one point for blueman, it uses obex-data-server, gnome-bluetooth would require obexd, and we don't know if obex-data-server and obexd can be side by side. but I doubt as they claim the same dbus "namespace"
[13:10] <pochu> asac: no idea... cjwatson should know :)
[13:10] <baptiste> can be *installed* side-by-side
[13:10] <baptiste> (I am answering to you with one or 2 days lag, sorry)
[13:10] <pochu> baptiste: so it's not decided yet what will be shipped with karmic?
[13:10] <pochu> I thought it was going to be gnome-bluetooth
[13:11] <asac> pochu: we wanted to evaluate this carefully
[13:11] <asac> blueman has more features and wasnt considered when we looked at it
[13:11] <asac> (came in late)
[13:11] <asac> however, gnome-bluetooth is gnome
[13:11] <baptiste> pochu: the decision is not in my hand :), I'm just try to gather information and know what are the problems we could faced in the implementation
[13:12] <pochu> ok
[13:12] <baptiste> gnome-bluetooth as the advantage to be more gnome-"centric" (use infrastructe, developped by a RedHat developper)
[13:12] <baptiste> hello asac by the way
[13:12] <asac> hi ;)
[13:13] <asac> baptiste: yeah. but blueman seems to be more featureful ... but i want to understand why both projects exist before deciding
[13:13] <asac> and check why they don't join efforts
[13:14] <asac> i assume that blueman was forked when the gnome-bluetooth guy still hoped that they could improve bluez-gnome
[13:15] <pochu> so blueman is also a bluez fork?
[13:16] <asac> i dont know yet ;)
[13:16] <asac> thats what i want to find out. it definitly rocks out of the box ;)
[13:16] <seb128> it's an intel project no?
[13:17] <kenvandine> Zdra, what is the bug?
[13:17] <asac> seb128: i dont think so. the Copyright is assigned to the developers and not intel
[13:18] <asac> blueman is python
[13:18] <seb128> ok, I'm probably mixing that with some other project announced recently then
[13:18] <seb128> connman could be
[13:18] <asac> connman is intel
[13:19] <seb128> ok I was probably thinking about this one then
[13:22]  * rodrigo_ submits couchdb-glib to revu and prays for not breaking anything
[13:26] <rodrigo_> once accepted in REVU I just need to file bugs with debdiff's for updates, right?
[13:26] <baptiste> seb128: I gues you've mixed with ophono and connman?
[13:26] <seb128> baptiste, you lag
[13:26] <seb128> baptiste, read backlog?
[13:27] <baptiste> yep
[13:29] <asac> pochu: so all in all we will get liferea-webkit in ~1 week? is that a good guess?
[13:29] <cjwatson> asac,pochu: not quite sure yet. I would expect that the security team will still want to have an opportunity to inspect packages that they're going to have to support in the future
[13:30] <cjwatson> it just means that it's applied to a different set
[13:30] <asac> so its more like "seed inclusion report" ?
[13:31] <cjwatson> I wouldn't use that term. product, maybe
[13:31] <pochu> asac: yes, that should be doable
[13:31] <cjwatson> i.e. we're happy to include this package in the Ubuntu desktop product
[13:31] <pochu> asac: if you're in a hurry a merge now will do
[13:32] <asac> right. i first wrote "product inclusion report" ... but then i realised that not all seeds are actually products
[13:32] <asac> like xubuntu et al
[13:32] <asac> so maybe its "canonical support report" ;)
[13:33] <cjwatson> #include <usual-concern.h> :-)
[13:33] <asac> pochu: i am not in a hurry. just want to check where i should spend my time on for the ffox 3.5 by default transition
[13:33] <cjwatson> I'd rather it be in terms of Ubuntu than in terms of Canonical; not all the MIR terms are about Canonical being willing to support something - many of them are simply quality guidelines
[13:34] <cjwatson> Xubuntu isn't subject to MIRs right now, and does not need to be subject to an analogue of them post-archivereorg
[13:34] <asac> hmm. ok. always though that main ment that canonical implicitly committed to provide security support
[13:34] <cjwatson> they might want to institute something similar, but that's up to them
[13:34] <cjwatson> main has meant lots of things
[13:34] <cjwatson> one of the reasons we want to reorganise it :)
[14:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes :)
[14:30] <seb128> hggdh, hi, would you be interested to work on a evolution ppa with evolution-bonobo-slay builds?
[14:30] <seb128> and maybe eds-dbus if that's ready to be tested too
[14:32] <seb128> ivanka, hi
[14:33] <seb128> ivanka, about bug #389926, I'm not sure it's "obscuring navigation", it's just than most users care about their user directory and system install layout is something they don't want to know about or are not interested in
[14:33] <seb128> ivanka, the rational for the current behaviour is that your anchor point is your user directory, not the filesystem where you never go
[14:34] <seb128> ivanka, note that the gtk fileselectors have the same behaviour
[14:35]  * ivanka reading, looking, thinking
[14:35] <rickspencer3> pitti: I see lots of "dones" on automagic python!
[14:35] <rickspencer3> nice :)
[14:35] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:36] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[14:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: hi
[14:37] <kenvandine> hey ri
[14:37] <kenvandine> rickspencer3,
[14:37] <seb128> kenvandine, is your empathy libnotify use optional?
[14:37] <seb128> ie can I tell it to still show a notification area icon
[14:37] <kenvandine> no... it needs to be though
[14:37] <kenvandine> going to talk to ted about that
[14:37] <kenvandine> well
[14:37]  * seb128 hates the message indicator behaviour
[14:37] <kenvandine> you can yes
[14:37] <kenvandine> in the prefs
[14:38] <kenvandine> if you uncheck us the indicator in the prefs you get the old icon
[14:38] <seb128> I can't get the messages in the indicators but still the icon though?
[14:38] <hggdh> seb128, yes, no prob
[14:38] <kenvandine> but, based on that bug upstream, i think we should check if the indiciator applet is running and fall back
[14:38] <kenvandine> yes
[14:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine:  I spent yesterday hacking couchdb into quickly
[14:38] <rickspencer3> couchdb is, indeed, very cool
[14:39] <kenvandine> seb128, if you uncheck that option, it ignores the indicator and uses the old icon in the tray
[14:39] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, awesome
[14:39] <rickspencer3> so I made the default preferences dialog use it automatically, and use it in the tutorial
[14:39] <seb128> kenvandine, I did that now, much better, thanks
[14:39] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:39] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:39] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, that is what i keep hearing... ryan the gwibber guy was skeptical... but then he tried using it and just fell in love
[14:39] <seb128> I don't get use to the message indicator, it's so annoying to open the buddy list
[14:39] <pitti> rickspencer3: new p-d-extra uploaded to Karmic today
[14:39] <rickspencer3> sweet
[14:40] <kenvandine> seb128, well i agree with you there... it should always show it... not toggle imho
[14:40] <rickspencer3> pitti: is it ready for a quickly wrapper?
[14:40]  * pitti is still struggling with USB wreckage in karmic, which causes his keyboard/mouse/docking station to fail
[14:40] <kenvandine> but tedg disagrees :)
[14:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: I can build jockey with it now
[14:40] <kenvandine> pitti, awesome
[14:40] <rickspencer3> pitti: that is really inspiring
[14:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: no debianization yet, but setup.py build/install/sdist work fine now
[14:40] <rickspencer3> cool
[14:40] <pitti> so, bye-bye setup.py, setup.cfg, POTFILES.in, and MANIFEST.in
[14:41] <rickspencer3> !
[14:41] <pitti> well, setup.py needs the metadata, of course
[14:41] <pitti> right now, version and name
[14:41] <tedg> kenvandine: I'm cool with changing that.  We need a general policy though, so we don't end up doing it different ways in different apps.  mpt, are you going to put that in the MessagingMenu spec?
[14:41] <rickspencer3> of course, but it's a simple format, and a single place to do it
[14:41] <kenvandine> tedg, please please.... i absolutely hate that behavior!
[14:41] <kenvandine> almost as much as git :)
[14:42] <kenvandine> two clicks to get my buddy list is 1 too many :)
[14:42] <seb128> yes, same here
[14:42] <seb128> I often double click on the notification area icon to see who is online
[14:42] <kenvandine> same here
[14:42] <kenvandine> and i never minimize the buddy list
[14:42] <kenvandine> so it is just behind windows
[14:43] <kenvandine> so always needs two clicks
[14:43] <mpt> tedg, sorry, just read the backlog twice and I'm still not sure what "that" is
[14:43] <mpt> Do you mean access to buddy lists and equivalents?
[14:44] <kenvandine> mpt, yes
[14:44] <ivanka> seb128, hi
[14:44] <tedg> mpt: Yes, and whether the menu item toggles or always brings to front (or attempts to)
[14:44] <kenvandine> right now clicking it toggles
[14:44] <kenvandine> not raises the buddy list
[14:44] <ivanka> seb128, hi
[14:44]  * kenvandine thinks if you click it... you expect to see it :)
[14:44] <seb128> ivanka, hello
[14:44] <tedg> seb128: Does the empathy-megaphone applet solve that problem?
[14:45] <mpt> tedg, yes, I guess we should have a MessagingMenuDesignGuidelines like the NotificationDesignGuidelines
[14:45] <seb128> tedg, dunno about this thing
[14:45] <kenvandine> i never found that applet very useful
[14:45] <seb128> what does it do?
[14:45] <kenvandine> i think it lets you list certain contacts in an applet
[14:45] <tedg> seb128: Basically let you assign users to have icons on your panel.  They saturate when they come online.
[14:45] <tedg> seb128: The idea is you can track the status of people important to you.
[14:46] <kenvandine> oh... that applet won't even load here!
[14:46] <tedg> kenvandine: Oh, that's a distro problem.  You should talk to them ;)
[14:46] <seb128> tedg, oh no, I don't want 30 icons on my gnome-panel
[14:46] <kenvandine> haha
[14:46] <seb128> tedg, I'm just curious and sometime bored so I look to who is online or busy etc
[14:46] <tedg> seb128: You have 30 girlfriends? ;)
[14:47] <tedg> seb128: The idea is it's the most important folks.
[14:47] <seb128> tedg, no ...
[14:47] <seb128> tedg, right but that's not why I open the buddylist, ie it doesn't reply to my usecase
[14:47] <ivanka> seb128, it seems to me that Nautilus is the root of many paper cuts :)
[14:48] <seb128> ivanka, yeah, I noticed by the recent email flood I got on it, lot of people having random wishlists for it
[14:48] <tedg> seb128: Ah.  So you're looking at it as more of a general update.  No watching for people.
[14:50] <seb128> tedg, just being curious about who is around, who is na and with what reason, etc
[15:16] <andreasn> ivanka, did you get to make use of the python-ui-lab-thing (pongo)?
[15:19] <seb128> jcastro, hey
[15:20] <seb128> jcastro, did you get any news from banshee upstream about making a clear 1.6 schedule?
[15:20] <jcastro> seb128: I want to nail them down at guadec, but no, they haven't commmitted
[15:20] <seb128> ok thanks
[15:20] <jcastro> seb128: one of them said that by then a 1.5 release would be fine but I am not a fan of that
[15:20] <seb128> me neither
[15:21] <jcastro> seb128: oh, RAOF has a gapless patch somewhere
[15:21] <seb128> nice
[15:24] <ivanka> andreasn, sorry - on a call = mpt and I tried it - if he is around maybe he can update
[15:24] <mvo> is anyone working on the liferea merge?
[15:25] <seb128> mvo, pochu I think
[15:26] <mvo> thanks seb128
[15:26] <seb128> you're welcome
[15:26] <seb128> mvo, looking for work to do? ;-)
[15:26] <mvo> seb128: going over the open merges
[15:26] <seb128> mvo, you can do the scim one I guess
[15:26] <mvo> today is the day ;)
[15:26] <mvo> not scim
[15:27] <seb128> why not?
[15:27] <didrocks> (or some sponsoring :p)
[15:27] <seb128> I'm listed as sponsor there ;-)
[15:27] <mvo> brings back bad memories ;)
[15:27] <seb128> lol
[15:27] <seb128> mvo, pycairo is waiting for sponsoring and on the list otherwise
[15:29] <mvo> thanks, if noone is faster I look at it later
[15:42] <seb128> mvo, is there an easy way to see installed packages depending on libfoo directly?
[15:43] <dobey> seb128: apt-cache rdepends libfoo doesn't do that?
[15:43] <seb128> dobey, no, it lists all the packages in the archive depending on it
[15:44] <dobey> oh
[15:44] <seb128> I want only the ones installed on my system
[15:46] <seb128> I guess grep-status should work
[15:46]  * seb128 tries
[15:48] <seb128> ok, after cleaning a bunch of ^rc packages that works
[15:50] <pitti> seb128: what I usually do is dpkg -P libfoo and read the packages in the error message
[15:51] <mvo> seb128: apt-cache rdepends --installed does not work?
[15:51] <seb128> pitti, grep-status works fine once you cleaned the rc list
[15:51] <pitti> right
[15:52] <seb128> mvo, works thanks, I didn't know about --installed
[15:53] <seb128> 24 sources packages still using gnome-vfs
[15:54] <seb128> in fact once removing bindings, etc it's some 16 sources
[15:55] <seb128> mvo, update-notifier being one of those
[16:06] <seb128> asac, you are the other gnomevfs user apparently with xulrunner and firefox ;-)
[16:07] <asac> yes.
[16:08] <seb128> asac, no need to try to hard to get ride of those we still need to keep because of bindings and libgnomeui
[16:08] <asac> there was work going on somewhere to move it to gio
[16:08] <seb128> but using gio would be nicer indeed
[16:08] <asac> but that seems to not even have happened on trunk yet
[16:09] <seb128> compiz-gnome depends on libgnomevfs2-0 too for some reason
[16:09] <asac> so it will not go away for 3.5 for sure. we should remember to ensure that its gone in next release though
[16:09] <seb128> asac, would be nice to not have to keep gnomevfs as supported for the next lts if not required
[16:09] <seb128> asac, ie cleaning it by karmic+1 would be nice
[16:11] <asac> seb128: unlikely that we will get next firefox release for karmic+1 ... that would require a quick turnaround from mozilla. at least it would be really tight schedule. i think they want a 9 month cycle by default
[16:11] <asac> but they tend to extend that by a few month, which would be too late for us
[16:11] <seb128> asac, hum ok
[16:11] <seb128> still having gnomevfs around for a while then
[16:11] <asac> because they release when they have no release critical bugs
[16:34] <tgpraveen1> hi guys anyone know why with the latest update from the telepathy ppa in jaunty empathy does not have support for messaging indicator?
[16:35] <seb128> because there is no good patch for that yet ?
[16:37] <tgpraveen1> seb128: ok.thx
[17:20] <didrocks> >qzqy not there
[17:21] <didrocks> grrr, I hate windows and switching to qwerty keyboard :/
[17:21] <Tm_T> you don't have to use qwerty in windows either (:
[17:21] <Tm_T> or so I heard
[17:21] <seb128> is anybody interested to work on packaging mutter an gjs?
[17:25] <pochu> asac: there's also this hildon stuff for lpia
[17:25] <pochu> so we will still need a merge
[17:31] <rickspencer3> pitti: kenvandine: yeah, I was too embarrassed to suggest adding the U1 packaging to the burndown chart, so thanks for that pitti ;)
[17:31] <kenvandine> :)
[17:32] <kenvandine> i think it is the ideal way to track it
[17:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: do you feel like you have enough to do between now and desktop summit?
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ;)
[17:33] <kenvandine> i could use a few assistants :)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:45] <asac> lool: do we still want to support hildon (in particular for liferea)?
[17:45] <lool> asac: Mobile team doesn't do that any more, but Mer folks might be interested
[17:45] <seb128> pitti, ok, I get the dockstation issue too after a reboot
[17:46] <lool> asac: If it needs non-negligible work to keep, disable it and open a bug perhaps?
[17:46] <asac> lool: who is Mer? downstream?
[17:47] <seb128> asac, lusers
[17:47] <asac> does anyone actively maintain the hildon stack in either ubuntu or debian?
[17:48] <asac> if not we should drop that imo
[17:49] <seb128> asac, no
[18:03] <kklimonda> hey, any chance I could get a sponsor for transmission merge? it fixes few crashes, and a lot of small bugs from LP..
[18:16] <pitti> kenvandine: don't do full MIRs for trivial things like python bindings or icontool; just a MIR bug with a quick bug review will do for those
[18:16] <kenvandine> pitti, ok
[18:16] <pitti> seb128: bug 392144, I added a new udev rule which unbreaks this, FYI
[18:17] <pitti> seb128, rickspencer3: \o/
[18:17] <pitti> just discussed bug 123020 with Julain
[18:17] <pitti> Julian, even
[18:17] <pitti> looks like we'll get it by July 21st
[18:17]  * pitti looks forward to more CD space
[18:17] <pitti> ok, gotta run; friend's b-day
[18:17] <pitti> see you tomorrow!
[18:18] <rickspencer3> bye bye pitti
[18:19] <rickspencer3> pitti: great about the gnome-help-files
[18:19] <rickspencer3> !
[18:32] <lool> asac: pkg-maemo in Debian takes care of the hildon stack
[18:32] <lool> Not of all hildon apps though
[18:32] <asac> lool: ah. so hildon is actually merged/synched down?
[18:32] <asac> and we can push hildon patches up?
[18:32] <asac> to debian
[18:33] <lool> asac: libhildon yes; liferea hildon, why not, depends on who deals with liferea in debian I gues
[18:34] <lool> s
[18:34] <pochu> Rodrigo Gallardo
[18:34] <pochu> and maybe me soon
[18:34] <asac> pochu: ok can you try to push that to debian?
[18:35] <pochu> what is it useful for?
[18:35] <pochu> mobile devices?
[18:55] <ccheney> why does karmic want my password everytime i plug something in to mount
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> ccheney - i think thats a known devicekit-disks issue
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> it's identifying your external media as an internal drive i think
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, maybe it';s not known then
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> :-/
[19:10] <pochu> asac: what's the patch useful for?
[19:11] <ccheney> chrisccoulson: ah
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> ccheney - i'm sure i saw that issue documented somewhere before, but i cant find it now
[19:12] <ccheney> chrisccoulson: ok
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> you might want to report it or speak to pitti - he might already know the answer
[19:14] <asac> pochu: most likely for hildon
[19:14] <asac> support
[19:14] <asac> pochu: so if you ewant to use liferea on a hildon desktop you need that
[19:16] <ehazlett> i'm looking for a handful of beta testers for a project... anyone interested?
[19:17] <pochu> asac: I guess I need an n810 :-)
[19:17] <pochu> and Ubuntu Mobile doesn't ship Liferea-hildon anymore?
[19:31] <tgpraveen1> ehazlett: what is ur project abt?
[19:32] <ehazlett> tgpraveen1:  http://www.reconstructor.org/    new version preview:  http://reconstructor.org/pub/rv3_preview/
[19:41] <asac> pochu: yes. thats why i think we should drop it ... unless debian wants it (and upstream?)
[19:46] <pochu> asac: I'll check both with the Debian maintainer and with upstream
[21:38] <dobey> does anyone know if there's a pidgin update in the works to fix the sudden yahoo accounts not working issue?
[21:41] <Ampelbein> dobey: bug 389322
[21:43] <dobey> Ampelbein: right. and http://pidgin.im says 2.5.7 fixes the issues
[21:43] <Laney> see the bug status
[21:43] <Ampelbein> dobey: laney has attached a debdiff with the fix
[21:43] <Laney> feel free to do intrepid and dapper if you want
[21:43] <Laney> in fact, I would love you to take those two from me
[21:44] <dobey> nah, i just care about jaunty and/or karmic :)
[21:44] <Laney> bah
[21:44] <Laney> me neither, but it's still good to help these people
[21:46] <dobey> i don't even have time to keep up with all the things i'm already committed to doing or i would :)
[21:46] <dobey> but thanks