[00:06] <pochu> RoAkSoAx: I'm no autoreconf expert...
[00:06] <pochu> 'autoreconf -fiv' may be a start
[00:07] <pochu> or you may just need to rerun aclocal
[00:07] <RoAkSoAx> pochu, Ok. Well I'm just trying by doing: aclocal and it creates the aclocal.m4 file
[00:10] <RoAkSoAx> OK so, I've run aclocal and it generates an aclocal.m4 file that does not include the changes I need to have python2.6 support, so should I just summit my patch?
[00:13] <Ampelbein> RoAkSoAx: was there an error displayed when running aclocal?
[00:16] <RoAkSoAx> Ampelbein, aclocal: configure.ac: 27: macro `AM_CHECK_PYTHON_HEADERS' not found in library
[00:17] <Ampelbein> RoAkSoAx: sounds like that is the problem? (Disclaimer: I don't know it) ;-)
[00:17] <RoAkSoAx> Ampelbein, not actually, I've deleted that line just to test and the same thing
[00:19] <RoAkSoAx> well the changes in the aclocal file are actually changing for example from site-packages to *-packages and adding python2.6 to the list of interpreters, but it's not doing that automatically, so that's why I made manual changes since those changes are required to add support for python2.6
[00:32] <maco> did dh_make go away?
[00:32] <maco> i have at least 50 other dh_* commands, but no dh_make
[00:32] <azeem> it's in its own package
[00:33] <maco> did it used to be part of the debhelper package?
[00:33] <azeem> no
[00:34] <ajmitch> as far as I know, it's always been in dh-make
[00:35] <maco> oh. alrighty
[00:53] <nhandler> Packaging Training session about pbuilder in #ubuntu-classroom in 7 minutes
[01:52] <james_w> it seems that requestsync over mail no longer does the sponsorship check
[01:54] <RoAkSoAx> james_w, what error does it shows you?
[01:54] <james_w> none
[01:55] <RoAkSoAx> so what seems to be the problem then cuz I've also had some issues with it earlier today
[01:56] <directhex> jjam
[01:56] <directhex> james_w, it's lacked appropriate sponsorship checks (i.e. motu can requestsync directly to main without sponsorship) for a while
[02:11] <Ampelbein> james_w: i just tried requestsync and it tells me that i need sponsorship. the resulting mail has "status new" and subscribe "ubuntu-universe/main-sponsors" (whichever is appropriate)
[02:15] <Ampelbein> james_w: for universe: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203269/
[02:15] <Ampelbein> james_w: for main: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203270/
[02:17] <james_w> hey
[02:17] <james_w> sorry, phone call
[02:17] <james_w> I'm seeing quite a few bugs subscribe ubuntu-archive directly
[02:18] <james_w> the common theme is that they are filed by mail
[02:18] <ajmitch> james_w: I'm guessing that they're all filed by MOTUs, if it's the bug that directhex was referring to?
[02:18] <james_w> nope, by others
[02:18] <ajmitch> hm
[02:18]  * ajmitch can't easily test that
[02:19]  * directhex sponsors ajmitch for effort
[02:19] <ajmitch> directhex: sure, I'll setup another identity & apply for MOTU then :)
[02:20] <directhex> you should be part of debian front desk. even more useful!
[02:20] <ajmitch> still trying to read through that thread on -project
[02:21] <ajmitch> my mind is melting
[02:22] <directhex> ?
[02:23] <ajmitch> the thread about DAM & front desk
[02:23] <ajmitch> it's a long read
[02:26] <Ampelbein> james_w: were those reports filed before May 23rd? (or shortly thereafter). the check for sponsoring was changed with version 0.74
[02:27] <james_w> there were some before
[02:27] <james_w> some today, but I don't know what version they were using
[02:27] <directhex> nhandler, i get home from work at ~1810. day of the week doesn't bother me
[02:29] <directhex> nhandler, i can do a session from work as a general "probably" i.e. if a cluster explodes, i need to cancel with 0 notice
[02:29] <Ampelbein> james_w: just tried with version 0.73, it fails to detect i need sponsoring: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203273/
[02:29] <directhex> nhandler, otherwise i need to limit ~1810 as a minimum start time
[02:29] <Ampelbein> james_w: so i guess that there's the problem and 0.74 should go to jaunty-backports as well.
[02:30] <nhandler> directhex: It is up to you when you want to do the session.
[02:30]  * ajmitch isn't quite qualified for those packaging sessions
[02:30] <nhandler> lol ajmitch
[02:30] <james_w> Ampelbein: thanks for checking
[02:30] <ajmitch> I need to catch up on the latest toys
[02:30] <Ampelbein> james_w: you're welcome.
[02:30] <ajmitch> like most of the contents of ubuntu-dev-tools which I've never used :)
[02:31]  * nhandler needs to finish looking through devscripts
[02:31] <ajmitch> devscripts is fine, it hasn't changed much in the last few years
[02:31] <directhex> nhandler, i would be happy with a 1830 session - can you please send me an e-mail reminder? i'm filled with free memory-destroying vendor-paid alcohol
[02:31] <ajmitch> directhex: what would you teach?
[02:32] <nhandler> ajmitch: True, but I still haven't looked at all of the tools. I'm looking at it now since it is a Debian NM question
[02:32] <nhandler> directhex: So you want to lead a session on July 16th at 18:30, correct? Are you going to cut the session short or simply go until 19:30?
[02:32] <directhex> ajmitch, truth, justice, and the $NATIONALiTY way
[02:33] <nhandler> james_w: I hope you don't mind me doing a little session scheduling for July
[02:33] <directhex> nhandler, i'd go until 19:30. actually, I'm on BST, so subtract 1 hour from the above? or am i totally lost in timexones...
[02:33] <james_w> nhandler: of course not :-)
[02:33]  * james_w hugs nhandler 
[02:33] <nhandler> directhex: Isn't BST UTC+1 right now?
[02:34] <directhex> nhandler, yes
[02:34] <nhandler> james_w: Also, at the session earlier today, they expressed an interest in a python packaging session to go along with the java one we had and the upcoming perl one
[02:34]  * ajmitch is glad to be in a nice sane timezone
[02:34] <directhex> i'm extra confused as i'm in europe/berlin timezone to0day
[02:34] <nhandler> directhex: So 18:30 UTC would be 19:30 BST
[02:35] <james_w> nhandler: excellent
[02:35] <ajmitch> nhandler: what else do you have on the books?
[02:35] <directhex> nhandler, okay, so... a 1800 utc session is more than fine then.
[02:36] <nhandler> directhex: Great. Do you have a title for your session?
[02:36] <directhex> nhandler, should i blame the alcohol, or my stupid understanding of timezones?
[02:36] <nhandler> ajmitch: The only currently scheduled session other than the one directhex will give is the one the pkg-perl team is doing
[02:36] <nhandler> There are some ideas for future sessions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
[02:37] <directhex> nhandler, try for "Mono packaging: quick, easy, and awesome"
[02:37] <directhex> nhandler, but PLEASE email me a reminder. i'll forget otherwise
[02:37] <directhex> for this i blka
[02:37] <directhex> blame the booze
[02:37] <nhandler> directhex: Ok, thanks a lot. I'll take care of updating the necessary schedules. It will be on the Fridge, but I will also email you ;)
[02:37] <directhex> thanks!
[02:38] <directhex> now, it's 25 to 4am. bedtime!
[02:39] <nhandler> Night directhex, and thank you
[03:14] <vorian> nhandler: you are teaching teh pbuilder pwn eh?
[03:15] <ajmitch> vorian: he taught, and we were enlightened
[03:16] <vorian> shucks
[03:16] <nhandler> vorian: I linked to the Ninja wiki and hooks
[03:16] <vorian> traitor
[03:16]  * ajmitch wonders how that is traitorous
[03:17]  * vorian is medicated atm, so pardon crazy
[03:17] <ajmitch> this isn't you normally?
[03:18] <vorian> heh, good point
[03:18] <ajmitch> this channel attracts crazy
[03:19] <vorian> the importatnt thing is if nhandler was able to recruit anyone over to the darkside
[03:19] <nhandler> Hey, who are you calling crazy, crazy?
[03:19] <nhandler> vorian: Quintasan expressed an interest in packaging the core KDE stuff
[03:19] <vorian> fantastic
[03:19]  * ajmitch hasn't been seduced by the dark side yet
[03:20] <vorian> we really should get a extras type team together to look after the non-core stuff a bit closer
[03:53] <vorian> nhandler: though art missing from a channel
[04:04] <qiyong> what's the differences b/w syslog and messages from /var/log ?
[04:16] <RoAkSoAx> Heya guys what is the difference between "dh_installchangelogs -i" and "dh_installchangelogs -i Changelog" in debian/rules?
[04:23] <nellery> RoAkSoAx: the Changelog is just specifying the name of the upstream changelog. The -i is unrelated to this, it specifies to act on indep architectures
[04:23] <nellery> the -i option is specified in the debhelper manpage I think
[04:23] <RoAkSoAx> nellery, k thanks, will take a look at it :)
[04:23] <nellery> there's just no option necessary to specify where the upstream changelog is
[04:25] <RoAkSoAx> nellery, ok thanks :). Now, should we remove "only in patch2: unchanged:" from debdiff's ?
[04:28] <StevenK> RoAkSoAx: diff will ignore those lines, so you should be okay
[04:28] <RoAkSoAx> ok thanks StevenK :)
[06:43] <dholbach> good morning
[06:43] <dholbach> nhandler: thanks for that great packaging training session!
[06:43] <dholbach> who wants to give another session at any of the open dates on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training ?
[07:02] <fabrice_sp> Good mornibg dholbach ! You scared everybody asking for a trainer ;-)
[07:20] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[07:21] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[07:21] <ajmitch> what fun stuff do you have for us today? :)
[07:22] <dholbach> ajmitch: I didn't know I was the entertainer for this place :)
[07:22] <dholbach> ajmitch: how about doing some sponsoring or giving a session at any of the open dates on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training ?
[07:22] <ajmitch> you liven the place up
[07:23] <ajmitch> yeah, I was talking to nhandler about what he wanted for that earlier
[07:23] <dholbach> there's a lot of requests on the page :)
[07:23] <ajmitch> & I have the sponsoring list open, don't worry :)
[07:23] <dholbach> yooohooooo!
[07:23] <dholbach> :)(
[07:24] <ajmitch> 06:00 UTC is about the only timeslot there that'd be suitable for me I think
[07:26] <ajmitch> of the requests there, maybe the one of packaging a php web app, however I'd probably need a fair bit of time to prepare something suitable, because they can be downright evil :)
[07:26] <dholbach> sounds great
[07:26] <dholbach> it's completely fine if you just prepare ... say ... 15 minutes of hands-on session and just keep on answering questions
[07:27] <ajmitch> web apps that require the installation pages to have write access to the directory all the code is in make me cry a bit
[07:27] <ajmitch> sure
[07:27] <dholbach> yeah, I think I know what you mean :)
[07:27]  * ajmitch had that issue recently with silverstripe
[07:27] <ajmitch> plus other issues regarding licensing which are a little harder to solve
[07:28] <dholbach> plus the usual bundling of "packages"
[07:28] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:29] <ajmitch> besides that, I have a php5 merge to redo now
[07:29] <dholbach> asomething, bigkevmcd and I are looking into packaging civicrm which has a lot of these problems
[07:29] <dholbach> ok... enjoy
[07:29]  * dholbach will take the dog for a walk
[07:29] <ajmitch> see you in a bit :)
[09:05] <didrocks> DktrKranz: Hi Luca, are you there for a python 2.6 transition question ? :)
[09:13] <DktrKranz> didrocks: sure, but I'm taken with some things at work, so I could lag a bit
[09:16] <didrocks> DktrKranz: no pb :) I'm trying to merge planner which uses pysupport. Nothing special so, I updated .install files but pkgbinarymangler hates me because of files in site-packages... I tried to include /usr/share/python/python.mk without any success. The rules file is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203412/
[09:21] <DktrKranz> didrocks: any *.install files hard-coding site-packages?
[09:22] <didrocks> DktrKranz: no, they all have *-packages. Do you want the source package?
[09:27] <DktrKranz> didrocks: that would help
[09:28] <didrocks> DktrKranz: dget http://www.didrocks.fr/temp/planner_0.14.4-1ubuntu1.dsc (no hurry, when you have some time to take a look at it :))
[09:59] <DktrKranz> didrocks: testbuilding
[10:01] <didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks :)
[10:06] <DktrKranz> didrocks: mmh, it seems a cdbs bug, but I'll dig it deeper
[10:07] <didrocks> DktrKranz: ok, that's what I thought (python stack seems to be broken: if I try to build the current package, I got the same behavior)
[10:09] <DktrKranz> didrocks:
[10:09] <DktrKranz> checking for python version... 2.6
[10:09] <DktrKranz> checking for python platform... linux2
[10:09] <DktrKranz> checking for python script directory... ${prefix}/lib/python2.6/site-packages
[10:09] <DktrKranz> checking for python extension module directory... ${exec_prefix}/lib/python2.6/site-packages
[10:10] <didrocks> DktrKranz: in the configure traces, yes. I'm currently seeing that. I thought that adding /usr/share/python/python.mk will change the behavior
[10:12] <DktrKranz> didrocks: what about running autoconf? it's hardcoded in configure, recreating it would have some good, I'll try it
[10:12] <didrocks> DktrKranz: oh, good idea
[10:28] <DktrKranz> didrocks: that doesn't work, it gets overwritten each time :/
[10:33] <DktrKranz> didrocks: see debian #524176
[10:37] <lesshaste> hi all
[10:40] <lesshaste> I have been told to enable boot logging and post the output ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/389930 ) but this feature has not worked for ages and does nothing in jaunty.  Do they just mean /var/log/dmesg ?
[10:40] <lesshaste> I really can't see how a dmesg output could help as it never says anything about grub
[10:41] <didrocks> DktrKranz: good catch :)
[10:42] <lesshaste>  any ideas?
[10:42] <DktrKranz> didrocks: it has been implemented in Ubuntu already, just I've no enough automake knowledge to understand its logic
[10:42] <DktrKranz> e.g. if there's any AC_* variable to set
[10:43] <didrocks> DktrKranz: I will ask doko for it, though
[10:43] <didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks a lot for your help :)
[10:44] <slytherin> lesshaste: What do you mean by bootlogging? Does it have anything to do with bootchart?
[10:46] <doko> didrocks, DktrKranz: you need to regenerate the aclocal.m4/configure
[10:46] <lesshaste> slytherin, no.. I mean bootlogd and /var/log/boot.. see the bug report request by Scoott
[10:46] <lesshaste> Scott H
[10:47] <didrocks> doko: so, autoreconf shoud do the trick?
[10:47] <doko> yes
[10:47]  * didrocks testing it
[10:49] <DktrKranz> didrocks: there seems working good
[10:49] <DktrKranz> *here
[10:57] <ripps> Hey, I need a expert MOTU's help, I'm creating an alternative mpd package that runs in the userspace, but if someone has had mpd installed before hand, it's /etc/mpd.conf will interfere. What's the proper way of going about replacing it. I don't think I should just straight out delete it without asking the user
[11:00] <didrocks> Indeed, it's working. Thanks DktrKranz and doko :)
[11:00] <Laney> ripps:  you can ask a question with debconf
[11:01] <Laney> or move it to another file and show the user a prompt saying what you did
[11:01] <ripps> Laney: any good examples of debconf?
[11:02] <Laney> hmm, not sure
[11:02] <Laney> I think exim uses it and maybe mrtg
[11:23] <ripps> Laney: I see bunch of packages when upgrading ubuntu ask what I want to do with old configs, whether I want to replace, keep, or merge them. How can I get that?
[11:23] <Laney> that's just dpkg conffile handling
[11:23] <Laney> google around for dpkg conffile
[11:32] <jpds> ripps: That has nothing to do with two separate packages sharing the same configuration file lcation tho.
[11:32] <Laney> yeah sorry
[11:52] <ripps> Hmm... maybe ucf can help...
[12:15] <geser> a package should not modify a config file from an other package
[12:17] <c_korn> hm, what package is missing to make ld happy? "ld: cannot find -lfb" I tried the xserver-xorg-core package.
[12:18] <geser> does it happen during linking?
[12:20] <c_korn> yes, http://pastebin.com/d156b2a1f
[12:20] <c_korn> hm, maybe this fb lib is some library from the freebasic compiler
[12:21] <geser> that would be my guess too
[12:22] <c_korn> ah, it is in /usr/lib/freebasic/linux/libfb.a so I have to move it to /usr/lob
[12:22] <c_korn> *lib
[12:23] <geser> no, better add -L/usr/lib/freebasic/linux to the linker call/flags
[12:24] <mok0> I lost my wireless (proprietary) broadcom driver in the last kernel upgrade... now I can't get it back... :-(
[12:24] <geser> the pastebin shows that it tries the right thing but uses /usr/local/lib/... instead of /usr/lib/...
[12:26] <slytherin> c_korn: fb could be frame buffer as well.
[12:28] <slytherin> mok0: which chipset?
[12:28] <mok0> slythering bmc4312
[12:29] <slytherin> mok0: Does it require binary only firmware? And did you try installing bcmwl package?
[12:29] <mok0> slytherin: When I installed jaunty, I just had to activate the restricted driver in jocket
[12:30] <slytherin> mok0: So you are on karmic now?
[12:30] <mok0> slytherin: apt-cache doesn't know it
[12:30] <mok0> slytherin: no, jaunty
[12:30] <mok0> slytherin: I have to get video-drivers from ~ubuntu-mobile to get full resolution
[12:31] <mok0> slytherin: they don't have karmic yet
[12:31] <slytherin> mok0: Then you probably lost only firmware, although it should not happen. See if jockey helps you. If not try installing b43-fwcutter.
[12:32] <mok0> slytherin: jockey has nothing in the list .... it did b4 the upgrade
[12:33] <slytherin> mok0: paste the output of dmesg on pastebin
[12:33] <mok0> slytherin: uhm... the machine is not on the net :-)
[12:33] <mok0> slytherin: I'm on my workstation now
[12:34] <mok0> slytherin: I can't get wire-net where I am
[12:34] <slytherin> mok0: Ok. See if you see any firmware loading problems in dmesg output. Search for b43
[12:34] <mok0> slytherin: nothing there
[12:36] <slytherin> mok0: check if 'lsmod |grep b43' shows anything.
[12:36] <mok0> slytherin: nothing
[12:37] <slytherin> mok0: Try 'sudo modprobe b43' and then check dmesg output.
[12:37] <mok0> slytherin: the drivers are not there, and are also blacklisted
[12:37] <mok0> ah
[12:37] <mok0> slytherin: b43 loaded now
[12:38] <slytherin> mok0: why is the driver blacklisted?
[12:38] <mok0> slytherin: by default I guess... I commented-out b43
[12:39] <mok0> Still no drivers in jockey, thoug
[12:39] <slytherin> mok0: no it is not blacklisted by default
[12:39] <mok0> slytherin: I never touched that file before
[12:39] <slytherin> mok0: Then your chipset probably needs other driver.
[12:40] <mok0> slytherin: I guess...
[12:40] <mok0> the file "blacklist-bcm43xx" is not a part of any package
[12:40] <mok0> so must be generated in config step
[12:44] <juli_> Hello MOTUs, could you please advise. I want to package Cobertura lib. Currently 1.9.1 release is available but I need Cobertura 1.9. Is it allowed to package 1.9 which is tested and stable enough instead of 1.9.1?
[12:45] <slytherin> mok0: I am guessing b43 does not support your chipset.
[12:45] <slytherin> mok0: in any case, after loading the module, did you check if any wireless connections show up in network manager?
[12:45] <mok0> slytherin: probably not... the problem is I don't know what driver it was running before
[12:45] <geser> juli_: sure
[12:46] <slytherin> juli_: Sure. if 1.9.1 is kind of alpha/beta then it is recommended to package lower but stable version.
[12:46] <mok0> slytherin: nope nothing
[12:46] <mok0> slytherin: could be a regression on the kernel
[12:47] <mok0> It worked right after primary install
[12:48] <juli_> sladen, 1.9.1 is released 4 months ago and it  pretends to be final. But I'm not sure about it since some tests fail for me.
[12:48] <mok0> I stayed with 2.6.28-11-lpia because of the graphics, but they updated the psb drivers, and not wireless is gone...
[12:48] <slytherin> mok0: do you still have old kernel? You can try booting to that and check which driver it is.
[12:48] <mok0> slytherin: I do
[12:49] <slytherin> juli_: some tests as in unit test? Are you packaging the library because some other application depends on it?
[12:49] <juli_> slytherin, netbeans depends on it
[12:50] <slytherin> juli_: hmm, then you should package the version that works.
[12:50] <geser> juli_: just package the version you need
[12:50] <juli_> slytherin, geser thank you!
[12:51] <mok0> slytherin, the graphics are acting up
[12:51] <mok0> ah
[12:52] <mok0> Yep wireless works
[12:52] <ajmitch> building a package where it gets compiled 4 or 5 times ends up not being fun
[12:53] <mok0> slytherin, now it's using the "Broadcom STA wireless driver"
[12:54] <geser> ajmitch: so many different flavours?
[12:54] <ajmitch> geser: yeah, unfortunately
[12:55] <ajmitch> times like these I think a computer upgrade is overdue :)
[12:55] <slytherin> mok0: now you can check which driver was loaded in dmesg output
[12:56] <mok0> slytherin: it's called "wl"
[12:58] <mok0> slytherin: where would that driver be located (filesystem)?
[12:58] <slytherin> mok0: 'modinfo wl', you should have path of driver file. then dpkg -S filepath to check which package contains that file. Then see if corresponding package is installed for your latest kernel.
[12:59] <mok0> slytherin: nice tricks I'm learning here :-)
[12:59] <mok0> slytherin: the file is not part of any package
[13:00] <slytherin> mok0: impossible
[13:00] <slytherin> mok0: what command did you use?
[13:00] <mok0> dpkg -S volatile/ wl.ko
[13:01] <slytherin> mok0: you need complete path
[13:01] <mok0> slytherin: same result
[13:01] <mok0> slytherin: it might be compiled in place, or unzipped or something
[13:02] <mok0> slytherin: nvidias drivers are compiled when you install the package
[13:02] <slytherin> mok0: Ok. Then it is possible that it is done using dkms. In that case I think you need to install -headers package for latest kernel installed.
[13:03] <mok0> slytherin: yes... I am currently very puzzled...
[13:03] <mok0> slytherin: at least now I know what kernel module I need
[13:04] <mok0> slytherin: but it really should have been re-installed with the new kernel version
[13:04] <slytherin> mok0: can you tell em complete path of the module?
[13:04] <mok0> slytherin: I've just been using the update-manager thing
[13:05] <mok0> slytherin: /lib/modules/2.6.28-13-lpia/volatile/wl.ko
[13:05] <mok0> slytherin: sorry  that 13 is a 11
[13:05] <slytherin> mok0: this doesn't look like standard path. So you may be right that module is compiled inline.
[13:13] <mok0> slytherin: It might come from linux-restricted-modules-lpia
[13:15] <mok0> slytherin: it does
[13:24] <slytherin> mok0: Looks like that package is not in repositories. So if you used some PPA better talk with its owner. In this case you should discuss with #ubuntu-mobile
[13:24] <mok0> slytherin: ubuntu-mobile is only for the psb X-driver
[13:25] <slytherin> mok0: still, if there kernel made your wireless go away, you should talk with them.
[13:25] <mok0> slytherin: The package is called linux-restricted-modules and it contains the broadcom stuff
[13:25] <mok0> slytherin: it wasn't their kernel, it was Ubuntu's
[13:26] <mok0> slytherin: from jaunty-update
[13:26] <slytherin> mok0: then ask kernel team on their channel to check if they messed anything in the update
[13:26] <mok0> slytherin: I will... thanks a LOT for your help I am much further now
[14:59] <ttx> slytherin: note that Java-related builds in karmic are currently failing because of bug 392104
[15:02] <geser> ttx: what a timing. I've filed 392103 probably a few seconds before you :) (duped it to your bug now)
[15:02] <ttx> geser: argh :)
[15:03] <ttx> geser: i've a dirtyfix patch on that bug, though I expect Phillip kern to fix it properly in Debian very soon
[15:18] <slytherin> ttx: thanks for info.
[15:47] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:47] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:47] <bddebian> Heya geser
[17:25] <\sh> fabrice_sp: ping bug #373873
[17:57] <dholbach> Ampelbein: let us know in #ubuntu-meeting when you're back
[18:00] <dholbach> Ampelbein: don't worry - you're not confused, we moved the meeting an hour early because anant couldn't attend later on
[18:01] <ivoks> does anyone knos how to create a package from scratch without reading the docs or debian n-m-g? :)
[18:01] <ivoks> s/knos/know/
[18:06] <geser> hope for a godly inspiration
[18:24] <micahg> can I make a sync request here
[18:24] <micahg> since it's the last day?
[18:27] <jpds> micahg: No, the archive admins only take bugs reports.
[18:28] <micahg> ok
[18:29] <micahg> well, let me ask then, do you guys plan on moving in php 5.3 or is it dependent on getting into unstable sometime soon?
[18:29] <micahg> it's going to be released very soon
[18:29] <micahg> and if it's in, will it just replace the current version
[18:33] <micahg> I just want to know if it's worth filing a sync request for 5.2.10 if 5.3 will replace it later
[18:38] <fabrice_sp> \sh: yes?
[18:38] <\sh> fabrice_sp: is there any update on the debian sync?
[18:39] <fabrice_sp> no: the debian maintainer told me that is was working in Debian with PPC and don't see the point of adopting the changes
[18:39] <fabrice_sp> and I've not been able to find someone with ppc knowledge to check it
[18:40] <\sh> fabrice_sp: well...in case of no PPC knowledge (as I don't have) I would say, let's merge it, and when it's a problem later on, we can SRU it without the change
[18:41] <fabrice_sp> and why not doing at at the contrary if Debian is saying there i no issues?
[18:41] <\sh> fabrice_sp: because I don't trust the maintainer (he's new) and upstream is not always correct ;)
[18:41] <fabrice_sp> I mean sync it from Debian and SRU if it fails
[18:41] <fabrice_sp> ok
[18:41] <fabrice_sp> I'll do the merge then :-)
[18:42] <fabrice_sp> can you just unsubscribe MOTU form there, and I'll update the debdiff
[18:42] <fabrice_sp> s/form/from/
[18:42] <\sh> fabrice_sp: do you not have upload powers?
[18:43] <fabrice_sp> no: I'm only a u-u-c :-)
[18:44] <\sh> Don't get me wrong on my last statement...there was a reason why we had this change to our package...and from my web of trust I do trust our people more then others...but that's just me.
[18:44] <\sh> fabrice_sp: ah ok...happy to be your sponsor :)
[18:46] <fabrice_sp> cool: I'lll do the merge, and ping you ;-)
[18:46] <\sh> fabrice_sp: go for it :)
[18:46] <elzary> Hi, I've got an app I'm packaging which makes use of a library (bundled with the app) where abouts do I credit the author of the lib in the copyright file?
[18:46] <elzary> also, it's under public domain, where would I say that?
[18:46] <elzary> the rest of the app is gpl
[18:48] <slytherin> elzary: what do you mean by library bundles with app?
[18:48] <elzary> Can I put the lib developers name in the "upstream authors" section of debian/copyright? or is that reserved for the devs of the app?
[18:48] <elzary> slytherin, I'm not quite sure how else to explain
[18:48] <slytherin> elzary: where is the source of the library?
[18:49] <elzary> with the source of the app to be packages
[18:49] <elzary> *packaged
[18:49] <elzary> it's just one .c file
[18:50] <slytherin> elzary: You can have multiple copyright/license sections in debian/copyright file.
[18:50] <slytherin> bigon: any idea why telepathy-glib failed to build on sparc/powerpc? There is a unit test failure, but I am not able to make out the root cause from build log.
[18:50] <elzary> slytherin, ok thanks, shall I also list the dev for the library as an upstream developer or not?
[18:50] <elzary> or just put his name in the copyright section?
[18:50] <elzary> and not the upstream dev bit
[18:51] <slytherin> elzary: you should in my opinion.
[18:51] <elzary> ok
[18:52] <elzary> Are there any conventions I should adhere to when listing the second license?
[18:52] <elzary> or can I just say: Within this application there is a library that has been placed into the public domain?
[18:52] <elzary> and do I need to name the library or give it's location?
[18:53] <slytherin> elzary: You can simply say, file.c is placed into public domain
[18:53] <elzary> I dont want to repo admins to be confused
[18:53] <elzary> oh rite
[18:53] <elzary> that should do
[18:53] <elzary> thanks
[18:53] <elzary> I'm just trying to tread carefully in the copyright file
[18:53] <slytherin> elzary: you need to specify the path of .c file in the repo. as in folder1/folder2/file.c is in public domain
[18:54] <elzary> yeah
[18:54] <elzary> if something is in the public domain has the upstream dev forfeited any claim to copyright?
[18:54] <elzary> if so I won't list him in the "copyright" section
[18:54] <elzary> or should I?
[18:55] <\sh> elzary: you have to...but that's my interpretation between copyright and license
[18:55] <elzary> ok
[18:55] <elzary> THere isn't a date for the copyright though
[18:56] <elzary> I guess I can't really help that
[18:56] <\sh> elzary: no webpage? no google fragment on this?
[18:58] <elzary> \sh, yes but
[18:58] <elzary> it only talks about recent developments in the software
[18:58] <elzary> the dev that worked on this version is long gone
[18:59] <elzary> this is an old library, it's had alot done to it since this guy made the release
[18:59] <\sh> ask upstream :) they should know what they are using ;)
[18:59] <elzary> ?
[18:59] <elzary> I don't understand
[18:59] <elzary> They aren't relevent
[18:59] <\sh> elzary: it's only one or more files which are having a new license...so upstream should know about the history of the used stuff...
[19:00] <elzary> \sh,  please excuse my ignorance, I've done alot of reading around packaing and I don't see how your suggestions play a part
[19:00] <elzary> some guy public domained some software years ago
[19:00] <elzary> then someone else took over, re-licensed and re-released an altered version
[19:01] <\sh> shermann@buildserver01:~/packages/karmic/dojotoolkit/dojotoolkit-1.3.1$ ls -la debian/copyright
[19:01] <\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 shermann shermann 84794 2009-05-25 07:02 debian/copyright
[19:01] <\sh> e.g. this is my copyright file for dojotoolkit...
[19:01] <elzary> yes
[19:02] <elzary> I think I need to re-explain
[19:02] <elzary> I have an application I am packaging, all the copyright stuff is sorted
[19:02] <elzary> except: I have found one file with someone elses name onit
[19:02] <elzary> and a public domain release message
[19:02] <\sh> there are only a few files, which are not under the same license as the dojotoolkit itself...so people who are developing upstream software should know about the history of the tools they are using...if there is no copyright date publicly available from webpages or similar, the upstream devs should know since when the guy started it
[19:03] <elzary> So you're telling me to contact them and ask them what year this guy released this file?
[19:03] <\sh> elzary: that's the plan, yes :)
[19:03] <elzary> Hypothetically, what if they dont know?
[19:04] <elzary> after all, it has no version number and was released a few years ago by a dev who is no longer around
[19:06] <\sh> the version number is not important...dev X wrote a piece of problem solving software, somewhat around year X and release it to the public domain in year Y...public domain doesn't have to do anything with losing copyright...diff between license/usage policy and the work done by dev X (the work done by Dev X will always be his work...even being released under public domain)
[19:07] <elzary> I'm contacting them now, all I know is this library was written AT LEAST 4 years ago
[19:07] <elzary> and the name of the developer
[19:08] <elzary> another quick question, is it right to list this guy as an upstream developer just because one of his libraries(un-beknown) to him is being used>
[19:08] <elzary> ?
[19:08] <\sh> elzary: if upstream doesn't know anything else then you, you can state that file/lib XY was developed by Dev X, he has the copyright at least since <release date of upstream software> most probably before ... that's all we can document inside debian/copyright
[19:09] <elzary> I see
[19:10] <\sh> as said...lib X can rely on software Y, upstream developer is always of lib X...and upstream is using a software which is (C) by dev Y...so you need to state this...the dev Y has nothing to do with your upstream package..but dev Y can always object against distribution (in the way the license is allowing that) of his source, without even telling upstream about it
[19:11] <\sh> that said, software Y is shipped with upstream source ...
[19:13]  * \sh had problems regarding software being (C) by Dev X , licensed under (L)GPL but patented by Frauenhofer so, there are three different views to discover and a lot of money to be paid ;)
[19:13] <truthordare> hy all..i feel so difficult to understand the "packaging" process.. i tried to learn debian's..but that was hard too..so confusing about the different tools and everything.. aarg.. i know to code in java  and c/c++..also i can learn any new language as required.. can i be of any help?
[19:14] <elzary> truthordare, it's not perfect but check this out > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[19:14] <truthordare> i almost made a package using debconf.. so confusing..and i have totally forgot
[19:14] <truthordare> okay am reading that now.. thanks elzary
[19:15] <slytherin> truthordare: debian process is not different from ours
[19:15] <elzary> \sh, there are many ways in which you can word such statements, do the repo admins have a rigid preference or do they just care that it's clear?
[19:16] <\sh> elzary: I don't know who our archive admins are today...but regarding some debian packages in the past..I would say, they are sometimes rigid but mostly want a clear statement
[19:16] <\sh> debian packages here means really uploaded to debian...not ubuntu
[19:17] <elzary> yeah I'm specifically doing this ubuntu, if it works on debian then so be it. If there are rigid rules on how things need to be worded then there should be docs
[19:18] <elzary> the documents are pretty vague when it comes to anything that isn't totally straightforward
[19:18] <elzary> I'll just make it clear, they can always send it back with comments if there is an issue
[19:18] <truthordare> althoutgh i dropped my debian plans.. i actually almost made it..by adopting an orphaned package.. but by the time my mentor asked me for the final package for submission.. i kinda gave it up... then i switched to fedora..but quickly gave it up coz i hated yum more than i hated my ex-gf..i have been using ubuntu since then..been 3 years..i have also been an erly user.. i still have 5.x cd that was shipped to me ;)...
[19:18] <\sh> elzary: we are not lawyers, that's the thing :)
[19:18] <bigon> slytherin: maybe ask on #telepathy but it's the same thing on debian
[19:19] <\sh> truthordare: building packages for redhat/suse has almost the same quality standards/difficulty level as debian packages (without making any diff between Debian and Ubuntu)
[19:20] <slytherin> bigon: just discussed it there. the test is broken on big endian machines. A fix has been committed. I am testing the fix.
[19:20] <truthordare> i now run 9.04 64bit + vmware on my workstation rig.. 8gbram, q9550. its a breeze... i just use xp on my laptop..(for playing cod4)
[19:21] <truthordare> i hated about yum..was the fact..u could never install pacjages from ur local cd/dvd..u needed to create a yum local repository.. well may be i am wrong..but i could never install a single thing from my dvd's unless i created local hdd repos
[19:22] <\sh> truthordare: I would say you don't know the diff between yum & rpm and apt-get/aptitude and dpkg...but could be just me
[19:22] <truthordare> and not to mention..a lot of crashes... and my mind was playing games...i couldnt resist putting blame on redhat for each crash i encountered... it was like a beta project..
[19:24] <truthordare> i only use apt-get for all my install needs.. its very convinient... in fedora..i had to use yum and it wasnt yummy for me... i asked many people..but i couldnt solve.. i had to create local repo's(copy of all packages in the dvd into my hdd partition/folder) inorder to install packages with dependencies
[19:26] <mok0> truthordare: fedora is waaay behind getting a sensible dependence treatment in place
[19:26] <mok0> truthordare: fedora's packaging pollicy is basically absent
[19:27] <\sh> mok0: well...that's not true...SuSE is calculating all needed deps during their builds on open build service via a patched version of RPM...even for debian packages and repositories they can create
[19:27] <truthordare> all people i knew..were pretty comfortable with it..coz they only did network installs..so they already created network servers with repo.. anyway..thats my past.. the point is.. apart from slackware.. its from ubuntu i have learnt a lot and been most useful for me.. in many ways...so i wanted to contribute my skill to either ubuntu/deb..but since i havent used deb since sarge.. i am now looking to ubuntu to put my skills to use ;)
[19:27] <savvas> on the other hand, they're waay in the future concerning tempting new packages :P
[19:27] <mok0> \sh suse != fedora
[19:27] <\sh> mok0: the problem is more novell != redhat...reinventing the wheel is somewhat a hobby of RH
[19:28] <\sh> the same goes for novell in some cases
[19:28] <mok0> \sh, well, redhat _did_ invent the RPM format
[19:29] <\sh> mok0: actually one guy who worked for RH invented the RPM format...and RH didn't want to let some some improvement in so we had a fork of RPM
[19:29] <mok0> But one problem is that the core packages are done by redhat and they don't give a sh*t about compatibility with fedora
[19:30] <mok0> well, I'm not up to speed on RPM, since I switched to Ubuntu/Debian I haven't looked back
[19:30] <mok0> It's too far back, can't see nothing no more
[19:30] <mok0> :)
[19:32] <\sh> mok0: RH pissed of many good RH people in the past...and some of the good people are still working for RH and are on Fedora Community boards...I do see them every time when I'm on some conventions regarding FOSS :) RH is not bad, but they do think about their revenue ... (applies to novell, too :))
[19:32] <truthordare> can i ask a silly quest.. why does ubuntu need to get into livecd to be installed??..i thought initially they had a normal setup procedure that was less resource hungry and more faster(time to boot into live).. there must be some reason for it..just cant figure by myself
[19:32] <\sh> truthordare: desktop cd != alternate cd
[19:32] <mok0> truthordare: there's an alternate cd
[19:33] <mok0> truthordare: the normal cd is so ppl can see what it looks like before installing
[19:33] <truthordare> in older times there was desktopcd that installed directly if we wanted to..or we could go to live...
[19:33] <truthordare> there are 2 options.. 1)go to live cd 2) install..
[19:33] <truthordare> why need the 2nd option then?
[19:33] <mok0> truthordare: on the live cd there's an install icon on the desktop
[19:34] <truthordare> then why put the option on the bootmenu?
[19:34] <mok0> truthordare: hm, I usually use the alternate can't remember the details of the live
[19:35] <truthordare> if there is an option..which is right... it must have offered a different install than just booting into live.. the first reason why anyone will want to take the 2nd option is coz he knows he wants to install and not "see a demo"..
[19:35] <\sh> alternate cd or alternative installation via text-mode d-i is nothing for the not-trained user...we want the not-trained user to use ubuntu just as you use windows
[19:35] <\sh> therefore the live cd is a better starting point
[19:36] <truthordare> the livecd is good.. its excellent...
[19:36] <\sh> install what you see before
[19:36] <mok0> Of course not many users could install windows if their machine came w/o OS
[19:36] <truthordare> but the install option is redundant in the boot menu
[19:36] <\sh> mok0: anyone can install windows and screw their systems ;)
[19:36] <mok0> heh
[19:37] <truthordare> ubuntu had a sleek install system before
[19:37] <mok0> Seriously, if computers were sold without OS the competition would be fair
[19:37] <truthordare> i mean which didnt need to go to live boot up
[19:37] <mok0> truthordare: a choice was made to do it that way
[19:37] <mok0> truthordare: not a big deal imo
[19:38] <\sh> mok0: hmm...if we wouldn't have computers, we would write more on paper and send more snail mails ... but humanity had bad luck ;) thx mr. zuse ;)
[19:39] <truthordare> my main prob was.. my graphics driver didnt detect well... so i had low res.. and the install inside the livecd..was a "blind" tab+enter luck testing..many times needed to do from scratch...
[19:39] <mok0> truthordare: hm, what graphics card is that?
[19:39] <truthordare> i had once on my lap..nvidia 8400ms
[19:39] <mok0> oh
[19:40] <slytherin> truthordare: Ubuntu still has the text only installer. It is called as alternate CD.
[19:40] <mok0> new nvidia cards are always painful
[19:40] <truthordare> then i had on my workstation.. intel'sntegrated on dg45id mainboard
[19:40] <mok0> yo, slytherin I solved my wireless problem
[19:40] <slytherin> mok0: how?
[19:40] <mok0> slytherin: I had to run lrm-manager
[19:41] <truthordare> slytherin : i wouldnt want 2 diff cd's in my hand just to install the same os..
[19:41] <mok0> slytherin: under the NEW kernel :-)
[19:41] <slytherin> mok0: who suggested that?
[19:42] <elzary> \sh,  can I msg you the paragraph of text I left in the copyright file for public domain stuff?
[19:42] <truthordare> may be the text only installer could have coexisted with the live.. may be as a hiddenoption that normal users wont enture to... yea.i'm just dreaming.. ;)
[19:44] <\sh> elzary: sure :) email addr is on lp
[19:45] <elzary> \sh, I can just private message you, reply to this so I can open a priv windows please :)
[19:45] <elzary> i missed /msg of that hahah
[19:53] <elzary> Didn't somebody once mention something about XMMS libraries that can't be in the repo or am talking nonsense?
[19:53] <elzary> As this app makes use of a .c course file from XMMS 1999
[19:53] <elzary> *source
[19:54] <slytherin> elzary: xmms is removed from repositories. That is the only thing I know.
[19:55] <elzary> I'm sure one part of XMMS being bundled with this app won't be a problem
[19:56] <elzary> I can't see why it would anyway
[19:56] <truthordare> i will read the link that elzary had given me..and i wil come again later.. btw..in what ways can i be most helpful?? i have coding skills.. but i am open to any objective that is a priority for the community...
[19:56] <slytherin> truthordare: fix FTBFS.
[19:56] <elzary> lol
[19:57] <slytherin> truthordare: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs
[19:59] <truthordare> okay. i will try to start with the amd64 ones..i can test it natively... then may be i can use hw virtualization for the others.. i will try my best and will come back to here.. ;)..
[20:01] <truthordare> so these packages are broken?? i mean they dont currenly work on that platform?? so right now a older release is used intead ??
[20:02] <truthordare> wait... ohh...this is the new development branch....
[20:03] <slytherin> truthordare: these packages fail to build currently in karmic (current development release).
[20:04] <truthordare> normally who fixes them?? the package maintainer for that package..right??
[20:05] <slytherin> truthordare: in Ubuntu there is no one package maintainer. It is a team. For core packages it is core developers, for universe/multiverse packages it is MOTU tesm.
[20:05] <slytherin> team
[20:07] <elzary> slytherin, does that apply to all packages?
[20:07] <slytherin> elzary: yes
[20:07] <elzary> like, if I put my name on a package as package maintainer would the repo admins remove that and put team instead?
[20:08] <elzary> assuming it gets into multiverse or universe
[20:09] <fabrice_sp> \sh, I've just update Bug #373873, just in case you're still here ;-)
[20:10] <\sh> fabrice_sp: set in progress and assigned to me...will take it tomorrow early morning :)
[20:10] <fabrice_sp> great! Thanks ;-)
[20:10] <\sh> fabrice_sp: thank you :)
[20:12] <truthordare> i just checked one... makefile errors..mostly... so its about the packaging tools and the rules...etc.. safe to assume that the source code has no compilation/linkage errors ?
[20:12] <slytherin> truthordare: yes
[20:13] <slytherin> elzary: put your name as XSBC-Original-Maintainer.
[20:14] <elzary> slytherin, dh_make added me to the Maintainer line automatically though
[20:14] <truthordare> okay... i will read the guide and then...initially i would need a little help to get started..once i get the feel of it.. i'm sure i will be able to solve many build errors...
[20:14] <elzary> I'll move it to the line you said and shall I put anything in the Maintainer line?
[20:14] <slytherin> changing maintainer is very trivial task. get your package in shape
[20:15] <truthordare> is there any "set" procedure that is used to solve most of these?
[20:16] <elzary> slytherin, it is in shape, I'm just polising off the copyright file
[20:16] <elzary> and other administrative things that would annoy the repo admins should I get them wrong
[20:17] <truthordare> slytherin : has the people who solved these found it to be repititive task?? if so there must be a straight forward troubleshooting/solving documentation somewhere...
[20:18] <truthordare> or is it trial and error?
[20:18] <slytherin> truthordare: AFAIK, there isn't
[20:18] <slytherin> bigon: I am done testing the FTBFS fix from upstream. I have debdiff ready for ubuntu. Or do you want to push it to Debian first?
[20:20] <truthordare> okay....so it is a bug...and we really dont know where... if its not a problem caused by the ubuntu packaging environemnt then it mostly will be an upstream prob..so wait till patches are released..and then test it and try the builds again... right??
[20:20] <bigon> slytherin: yeah I will push it to debian
[20:21] <slytherin> truthordare: upstream will not know it fails to build until you tell them.
[20:22] <truthordare> how can i keep track of the status of the ftbfs?? imean how do i know if i am not trying to duplicate someone's effort??..like say  i dont want to try build something that is being corrected by someone else...
[20:23] <slytherin> bigon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203747/ please feel free to make adjustment as per Debian.
[20:26] <truthordare> okay..i will c all later..hopefully with some success.. ;)
[20:52] <elzary> I've got an AUTHORS file that lists loads of names and mentions one or two things they did for the application, bits of coding, bug fixes etc. I shouldnt mention these people in the debian/copyright file should I?
[20:56] <LarstiQ> StevenK: ugh is that pyqwt5 package ugly
[21:09] <Quintasan> elzary: if they are in AUTHORS file then I think you should.
[21:10] <elzary> Quintasan, some of them aren't authors though
[21:10] <elzary> like, one of them contributed hardware
[21:10] <elzary> one wrote a config file
[21:10] <elzary> the list has at least 20 names
[21:11] <Quintasan> oh, if that's the case you can list only coders
[21:11] <elzary> I'm ready to get this package sponsored, I just have no idea what to do with the COPYRIGHT files
[21:11] <Quintasan> that's what I would do
[21:12] <elzary> I'm thining that I might just not bother
[21:12] <elzary> far to many edge cases, and I just dont know what to do
[21:12] <Quintasan> COPYRIGHT should contain appropriate license and you should have same license in debian/copyright
[21:12] <fabrice_sp> elzary, you should mention the copyright as it is mentioned in the header of the source files
[21:12] <elzary> fabrice_sp, yeah that's what I have been doing
[21:12] <fabrice_sp> I mean, mention the authors
[21:12] <fabrice_sp> this way, everybody sohuld appear :-)
[21:13]  * Quintasan started to write same thing
[21:13] <elzary> fabrice_sp, so what about the AUTHORS file
[21:13] <elzary> there are only 4 people who really coded
[21:13] <fabrice_sp> it's an upstream file: just leave it there
[21:13] <elzary> ok
[21:13] <elzary> great
[21:13] <elzary> thanks
[21:13] <fabrice_sp> the copyright is all about copyrights ... :-)
[21:14] <fabrice_sp> not coders
[21:14] <fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
[21:15] <elzary> fabrice_sp, in the upstream author section should I also list the names of the people who wrote the 3rd party libraries that bundle with the app?
[21:16] <elzary> or should I just leave that to the copyright section?
[21:17] <fabrice_sp> their nema should appear in the source headers of the corresponding file,  if the source is there
[21:18] <fabrice_sp> s/nema/name (need to go to bed! :-9 )
[21:18] <elzary> they are in the source files
[21:18] <elzary> but I need to put them in the copyright file too right?
[21:19] <elzary> and mention the different license that particular code is released under
[21:19] <fabrice_sp> for the files they own, yes
[21:19] <fabrice_sp> exactly
[21:19] <elzary> fabrice_sp, one more quick question before you go
[21:20] <fabrice_sp> :-)
[21:20] <elzary> when I list the copyright holder should I list what file they own next to their name or should I leave that to the "license:" section where I talk about the different licenses?
[21:21] <elzary> I have about 8 names in the authors /copyright list, only one of them is the guy that coded the app I'm packaging the rest are the library devs
[21:21] <fabrice_sp> are you using the new/not yet approved format?
[21:21] <fabrice_sp> for license file, I mean
[21:22] <fabrice_sp> (this one: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196)
[21:22] <elzary> erm?
[21:22] <elzary> Not sure
[21:23] <elzary> I'm using the template that dh_make gave me
[21:23] <elzary> so I guess that's a no
[21:23] <fabrice_sp> use this one: it's easier, I think, when you have a lot of files with several licenses
[21:25] <elzary> It looks better
[21:25] <elzary> Is this format being accepted into universe?
[21:25] <fabrice_sp> yes
[21:25] <elzary> I'll look into it
[21:25] <fabrice_sp> and most of the 'new' packages are done using this format
[21:25] <elzary> maybe I'm being to pedantic with this?
[21:25] <elzary> hmm
[21:25] <elzary> ok
[21:26] <fabrice_sp> last time I submit a package, I've been requested to use this format for copyright file
[21:26] <fabrice_sp> s/submit/submitted
[21:26] <elzary> I'll use it then
[21:26] <elzary> will dh_make be updated at some point?
[21:26] <fabrice_sp> good :-)
[21:27] <fabrice_sp> hmmm, don't know. Perhaps when this format will be officially approved
[21:27] <elzary> I'll be submitting this package for sponsorship into universe tomorrow at this rate :)
[21:28] <fabrice_sp> lol
[21:28] <fabrice_sp> you know you ahve to use the REVU tool?
[21:28] <fabrice_sp> have
[21:28] <fabrice_sp> !REVU
[21:29] <fabrice_sp> (it works! :-) )
[21:29] <elzary> fabo, yeah I know about revu
[21:29] <elzary> fabrice_sp, ^
[21:29] <fabrice_sp> good
[21:30] <fabrice_sp> when you have it uploaded, ping me if I'm still here, and I'll have a look (even if I can't advocate it :-) )
[21:31] <elzary> Thanks :D
[21:31] <fabrice_sp> Have to go to sleep. Bye!
[21:32] <maco> any core folks around that can sponsor the debdiff on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/392286 ?
[21:42] <elzary> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196
[21:42] <elzary> ^ really makes the process of making a good COPYRIGHT file easier
[21:47] <ajmitch> maco: sure, give me a minute & I'll take a look
[21:47] <maco> ajmitch, thanks
[21:55] <maco> packing gconf-cleaner...it's a gtk tool to clear cruft out of a user's gconf settings. what Section should i put in debian/control? "gnome" or "utils"?
[21:55] <maco> *packaging
[21:57] <ajmitch> flip a coin
[21:58] <ajmitch> probably gnome, I guess
[21:59] <maco> gconf-editor's in utils
[21:59] <maco> i guess only officially gnomey things get the gnome section
[21:59] <maco> maintainer should be motu, right?
[22:00] <ajmitch> either that or Ubuntu Developers
[22:00] <ajmitch> I'd check because of the archove reorganisation that's coming
[22:00] <maco> oh, that changes that?
[22:01] <maco> what about the xsbc-original-maintainer....that only happens on imports from debian, right?
[22:01] <ajmitch> "#
[22:01] <ajmitch> Otherwise, the Maintainer field will be set to Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> "
[22:01] <ajmitch> you can set it to yourself
[22:01] <ajmitch> that seems to be the common practice
[22:01] <maco> ok
[22:02] <ajmitch> aspell-en uploaded
[22:02] <maco> thank you
[22:07] <gaspa> is there some problem with  ca-certificates-java package?
[22:09] <elzary> under Files: * in the proposed new copyright file format, do I list everyone that has there name in at least one source file?
[22:09] <elzary> because no one owns EVERY file, just some, or a majority of
[22:09] <dtchen> gaspa: bug 392104
[22:09] <gaspa> dtchen: ok.thanks.
[22:17] <LarstiQ> ScottK: I think bug 342782 is done now.
[22:18] <ScottK> LarstiQ: Cool.  Uploaded or needs sponsoring?
[22:19] <LarstiQ> ScottK: I didn't extensively test all combinations, that should still happen I guess. But it builds, installs, and with everything in the right location afaics
[22:19] <ScottK> LarstiQ: Progress in any case.  I'll try and have a look at it tonight or tomorrow.
[22:19] <LarstiQ> ScottK: it's past my bedtime, if you could test and upload/sponsor that would be swell.
[22:19] <LarstiQ> cool
[22:20] <LarstiQ> good night
[22:39] <elzary> The new/proposed style COPYRIGHT file in debian/ asks me what license the files in debian/* are under
[22:39] <elzary> I assume I'm the owner?
[22:39] <elzary> If there a default license or what?
[22:40] <elzary> *is there
[22:41] <directhex> most people use the same license as for the app itself
[22:41] <savvas> elzary: if you created the packages, then yes, you are the author/owner :)
[22:41] <elzary> ok
[22:41] <elzary> I'll out the deb/* files down as GPL-2 then
[22:42] <elzary> *put
[22:57] <mok0> They're already talking about Jacko as if he were dead....
[22:59] <mok0> ... apparently that is the case...
[23:00] <Ampelbein> wut?
[23:04] <Ampelbein> mok0: thanks for sponsoring lighttp, bug 326899. I have a question though: You mention that the way I patched the autotools-files was not correct. I reran autoreconf after making the changes and put the resulting diff into an extra patch. What is the difference between this and running autotools on the buildd?
[23:05] <DktrKranz> mok0, everyone confirms here
[23:05] <mok0> Ampelbein: hmm, I don't remember exactly
[23:05] <mok0> DktrKranz: yeah, BBC reports he died
[23:06] <elzary> mok0, not being self centred or anything, I wonder if they will refund my ticket for his concert in london -_-
[23:06] <mok0> elzary: all ticket holders are to make claims against the estate
[23:07] <mok0> elzary: he probably already spent your money
[23:07] <elzary> lol
[23:07] <elzary> I dont think it's true
[23:07]  * mok0 is overly cynical
[23:07] <elzary> no good source
[23:07] <elzary> they all link to tmz
[23:07] <elzary> which is balls
[23:08] <mok0> CNN is talking about him in the past tense
[23:08] <elzary> mok0, yeah but they are basing that on a bad source
[23:08] <elzary> unless he ran off with the money to live in netherlandv2, epic scam and all
[23:08] <elzary> hmmm
[23:08] <ajmitch> it'd be bad to run an obituary & then he lives... :)
[23:09] <mok0> ajmitch: they have it written already
[23:09] <ajmitch> they usually have them prepared & stored for when something bad happens
[23:09] <Ampelbein> mok0: hmm, ok then. because I thought it was better to run autotools locally and not on the buildd.
[23:09] <ajmitch> noone wants to be last with the news :)
[23:09] <nellery> Ampelbein: congrats on joining MOTU :)
[23:09] <mok0> Ampelbein: I remember now. No don't do that
[23:10] <Ampelbein> nellery: thank you very much!
[23:10] <mok0> Ampelbein: better to run autotools when building
[23:10] <nellery> Ampelbein: can I go ahead and kick you out of the sponsoring queue?
[23:10] <mok0> Ampelbein: patches to Makefile.in etc. are hard to maintain
[23:11] <nellery> I only see bug #392116
[23:11] <Ampelbein> nellery: yeah, that's the only one currently needing sponsoring.
[23:11] <mok0> "We're following the situation as it develops" I have news for Wolf: It's not gonna develop
[23:12] <Ampelbein> nellery: I can upload this tomorrow, when I'm added to the team. Or you could sponsor the package, if you have the time.
[23:12] <Ampelbein> nellery: ;-)
[23:13] <Ampelbein> mok0: the desktop-team does that (patching autotools) all the time, it's not that hard actually.
[23:13] <mok0> Ampelbein: don't know about that, but it's bad practice
[23:14] <mok0> Ampelbein: some people argue that autotools should _always_ be regenerated
[23:15] <mok0> Ah, Jacko is no longer dead
[23:16] <mok0> He's in a coma now
[23:16] <Laney> Uri Geller is commenting on the BBC now...
[23:16] <Laney> 24 hour news is such fun
[23:16] <Ampelbein> mok0: ok, thanks for the info.
[23:16] <mok0> Laney: we have live pictures from a chopper circling the hospital
[23:17] <Laney> yeah those too
[23:17] <mok0> stupid, huh
[23:17] <mok0> ... In the meantime, back in Iran, axing people...
[23:18] <mok0> Oh, that was Uri..,. thought I saw my spoons bending
[23:18] <directhex> what hope does some middle eastern country have in keeping people interested versus celebrities?
[23:18] <ajmitch> mok0: but that other news is so important!
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> 10 minutes ago he's dead according to times: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/26/2609021.htm?section=entertainment
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> or, according to times 10 minutes ago he's dead
[23:19] <mok0> Yeah this is the work of Iranian spies and Ahmadinejad to remove attention from the slaugtering
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> heh
[23:20] <directhex> JontheEchidna, all "dead" stories link back to tmz.com
[23:20] <directhex> who are not trustworthy
[23:20] <ajmitch> directhex: it's on the internet, it must be true
[23:21] <Laney> search michael jackson on twitterfall.com
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> oh, not times, ABC
[23:21] <Laney> such fun
[23:21] <mok0> He's been looking like a zombie for a while now
[23:21]  * ajmitch orders everyone back to productive work :)
[23:21] <Ampelbein> i don't know, but i had a small laugh looking at tmz. "michael jackson dead" and "click here for live chat" ;-)
[23:22] <ajmitch> 145 outstanding merges in universe, DIF is today, right?
[23:22] <mok0> LAt times changes it's mind
[23:22] <Ampelbein> ajmitch: yes, it is.
[23:23] <ajmitch> and people care about michael jackson on a day like today...
[23:23] <mok0> DIF is 10 days earlier this time
[23:24] <ajmitch> first up on the list is asterisk
[23:24]  * ajmitch tracks down the person who TIL
[23:25] <ajmitch> conveniently a loco member
[23:57] <directhex> am i the only one who really really misses pidgin's ability to stack multi-network contacts when using empathy?
[23:57]  * ajmitch hasn't even tried out empathy yet