[10:09] <ion> http://github.com/ion1/vim-highlight Output syntax-highlighted HTML version of input using Vim
[10:11] <ion> (There are syntax highlighters for a huge amount of formats in Vim)
[11:21] <Keybuk> ion: we could do with one for Upstart jobs ;)
[12:16] <johnflux> hello?
[12:16] <johnflux> the channel is very quiet :-)
[12:17] <johnflux> anyone around?
[12:30] <Keybuk> hello!
[12:31] <johnflux> :-)
[12:31] <johnflux> Keybuk, just wondering if dbus support has been added yet
[12:31] <Keybuk> yes, that was added in 0.5.0
[12:31] <johnflux> the front webpage says it has, but there's no mention on the wiki on using it, and I can't find it running "qdbus --system"
[12:32] <johnflux> ah
[12:32] <Keybuk> many distributions still use 0.3.x though
[12:32] <johnflux> yeah
[12:32] <johnflux> that explains why I don't have it in ubuntu
[12:32] <johnflux> so..  does this mean that as a normal user I can see what services are running?@
[12:32] <Keybuk> correct
[12:32] <Keybuk> though that is also true of 0.5
[12:32] <johnflux> can I map it to a PID?
[12:32] <Keybuk> which limits method calls to root only
[12:33] <johnflux> even dbus calls are limited to root only?
[12:33] <Keybuk> yes
[12:33] <Keybuk> though it's possible that 0.6 may open up the "status information" calls
[12:33] <johnflux> hmm - can I use policykit or something to get permissions to use it?
[12:33] <johnflux> without having to prompt the user each time
[12:33] <Keybuk> since they're done through the Properties interface now
[12:33] <Keybuk> PK support is somewhere on the wishlist
[12:33] <johnflux> I'm the maintainer of the 'task manager' thing in kde
[12:33] <johnflux> so it shows the list of running processes
[12:34] <johnflux> it would be nice to also show the list of running services
[12:34] <johnflux> and to map between them
[12:34] <johnflux> so that when you right click on the apache process, you could kill it properly, rather than sending a signal
[12:35] <Keybuk> *nods*
[12:35] <Keybuk> tell you what, after a few seconds thought, I'll definitely agree that the properties interface will be public
[12:35] <Keybuk> plus the "Get" interfaces
[12:35] <Keybuk> since most of that detail shows up with Introspection anyway ;)
[12:35]  * johnflux nods
[12:36] <Keybuk> the root-only methods will be
[12:36] <johnflux> in particular I want to be able to get the pid
[12:36] <johnflux> would that be possible?
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.ReloadConfiguration
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.EmitEvent
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Start
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Stop
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Restart
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Start
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Stop
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Restart
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Set
[12:37] <Keybuk> and the public methods will be
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.GetJobByName
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.GetAllJobs
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetInstance
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetInstanceByName
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetAllInstances
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect
[12:38] <johnflux> .GetInstanceByPid  ? :-) 
[12:38] <Keybuk> does that sounds reasonable?
[12:38] <johnflux> it does
[12:38] <Keybuk> johnflux: believe it or not, there's no such lookup path in Upstart ;-)
[12:38] <Keybuk> johnflux: though you're right - there should be - could you file a wishlist bug for that one
[12:38] <johnflux> Keybuk, right, I was hinting at adding it :-)
[12:38] <Keybuk> also can you file a wishlist bug for changing the D-Bus conf - pasting the above ;)
[12:39] <johnflux> what's the url for this bug reporter?
[12:40] <Keybuk> http://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart
[12:42] <johnflux> Keybuk, would i want getJobByPid   or GetInstanceByPid  ?
[12:42] <johnflux> instance?  both?
[12:43] <johnflux> I don't get the difference between instance and job
[12:43] <Keybuk> both technically
[12:44] <Keybuk> arguably that should return Job, Instance and Process
[12:44] <Keybuk> com.ubuntu.Upstart.LookupPid (Int32 pid) => (ObjectPath job, ObjectPath instance, String process)
[12:51] <johnflux> Keybuk, that's a suggestion for a new call?
[12:53] <johnflux> Keybuk, can a job/instance have an icon?
[12:53] <johnflux> for prettiness
[12:55] <Keybuk> icons are pretty much left to front-end implementation to decide for now ;)
[12:55] <Keybuk> it wouldn't be much to add an icon stanza like description and author
[12:55] <Keybuk> feel free to add a wishlist bug ;)
[12:55] <Keybuk> johnflux: right, given com.ubuntu.Upstart.LookupPid (1234) you'd expect a reply like
[12:55] <Keybuk>   ( "/com/ubuntu/Upstart/jobs/test", "/com/ubuntu/Upstart/jobs/test/_", "pre-start" )
[12:56] <Keybuk> ie. it says that pid 1234 is the pre-start process of the default instance of the test job
[12:56] <johnflux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/392500
[12:56] <johnflux> I can't work out how to make it a wish
[12:56] <johnflux> it didn't ask me
[12:59] <Keybuk> I can do that
[13:00] <johnflux> thanks
[13:03] <johnflux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/392502
[13:03] <johnflux> Keybuk, the other one
[13:03] <johnflux> Keybuk, I'm looking forward to making kde integrate nicely with upstart
[13:03] <johnflux> it could all come together in such a slick way
[13:04] <johnflux> Keybuk, do you know the status of other major distributions and upstart? 
[13:04] <johnflux> Keybuk, redhat, suse etc
[13:06] <Keybuk> johnflux: feel free to add a wishlist for icon support as well
[13:07] <Keybuk> Fedora are using Upstart 0.3.x currently
[13:07] <Keybuk> I'm hoping they'll use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:07] <Keybuk> Ubuntu is using 0.3.x and will use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:07] <Keybuk> we had a productive discussion with Debian this week, and it's favourable for Debian to use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:08] <Keybuk> I understand that RedHat will ship Upstart with RHEL 6, but not sure which version
[13:08] <Keybuk> a SuSE maintainer is pushing for adoption there
[16:59] <Keybuk> the only trouble with doing unit tests is you end up spending a day catching up on testing every time you write new code :-/
[17:47] <sadmac2> Keybuk: yeah.. its fun
[17:47] <Keybuk> of course, that's better than spending a week hunting down bugs you introduced
[17:48] <wasabi> Nothing to do with the conversation, but I find it interesting... sometimes unit tests aren't appropriate for just that reason.
[17:48] <sadmac2> Keybuk: lazy programmers write fewer bugs, but the industrious ones have less trouble finding them. Its cruel really.