/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/29/#ayatana.txt

=== GreySim is now known as AwaySim
=== GreySim_ is now known as GreySim
* MacSlow -> lunch12:16
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== lex79 is now known as lex
=== lex is now known as lex79
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== SiDi_ is now known as SiDi
macvrMacSlow: thanx for clearing that up :) ... [didnt want to spam the lp]15:42
MacSlowmacvr, np... that's what we're here for too15:43
MacSlow"gardening" bug-reports is just such a tedious work, as most of the time people don't care looking for duplicates at all and just ram everything into lp no matter what15:44
MacSlowI usually have gardening-sprees every now and then15:45
macvri'v been doing it for the papercuts ...! otherwise the real ones wont get noticed15:45
MacSlowmacvr, yeah the papercuts... overall a good idea... but even that generated some amount of "spam"15:46
macvroh my god ... is has so many rants , that when i invalidate one person has sent me personal mail! via the contact user link!15:47
MacSlowjono, hey... new to see you here :)15:48
jonohey MacSlow, I always join here :)15:49
MacSlowmacvr, hehe... yeah ... sometimes I wish we had a "slap"-button on lp ;)15:49
macvr+1^15:49
macvrMacSlow: the reason why i thought that notify-osd 'had to allow' this extra notification>  i thought it had strict rules as to what uses the notify daemon... my bad!15:50
MacSlowmacvr, oh no... every app can send notifications vis DBus using libnotify 15:51
macvronly no formatting :(15:52
MacSlowyeah... please no text-layout system in notify-osd15:53
macvrdjsiegel_: might wanna add this to a milestone > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/39229215:53
djsiegel_macvr: so, we've collected a lot of great paper cuts since we made the first list of 10015:54
ScottKSince several of you are involved in XDG stuff, I'm curious for your take on http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/saving-freedesktoporg-together.html15:54
djsiegel_a lot of them are more "paper-cuty" that our first 10015:54
djsiegel_if you find ones that look very paper-cut-y, let me know and I can swap them in15:55
macvrdjsiegel_: the above is a real misleading one15:55
djsiegel_yeah15:55
macvrdjsiegel_: so the 100 has been reached?15:56
djsiegel_macvr: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/karmic (tentative list)15:56
djsiegel_some are too hard to be paper cuts, we will discover15:57
djsiegel_so we will need to swap them with better confirmed paper cuts15:57
macvrdjsiegel_: oh well... i can slow down on the pruning :)15:58
djsiegel_no, don't!15:58
djsiegel_:)15:58
djsiegel_we need the pruning more than ever15:58
macvrwill do as much as i can :)15:59
macvrI'll notify you of any interesting finds, which could be swaped for the invalids in Karmic16:00
djsiegel_macvr: ok, I scheduled the tooltip one you just pointed out in this week16:13
macvr:)16:31
SiDiMacSlow: has there been any change in the font size in notify-osd ?16:34
SiDiit looks _really_ little with the bzr trunk branch16:34
MacSlowI've implemented exactely what the design folks wanted now16:35
SiDiah16:37
SiDiwell the design folks should discuss with the accessibility ones, because im 20, my eyes aint bad, and i have trouble reading them :p16:38
SiDii'll report a bug :)16:39
tgpraveenhttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-notify-osd/ i wanted to discuss about this blueprint specifically the section about consistent feedback for multimedia keys17:04
tgpraveendoes this mean that each time i press play, forward, etc a notification saying play, forward will appear?17:04
tgpraveenif so then it will be useless and the correct way would be that banshee upon clicking play puts a notification of the song being played <--- and this is a bug on banshee bugzilla which is being/has been fixed and now if we give notification for play key. then each time i hit play there will be two notifications one for play key and one from banshee17:06
tgpraveenam i wrong in interpreting this blueprint?17:06
SiDitgpraveen: i think it should be app-side too17:10
tgpraveenSiDi: yes. are you in ayatana team/17:21
tgpraveen?17:21
macvrtgpraveen: SiDi manages a lot more ;p17:23
SiDitgpraveen: i'm in ayatana discussion ML but i'm not working for Canonical17:23
macvrhe is everywhere , omnipresent17:23
SiDimacvr: c'mon.. never more than ten channels17:23
macvrSiDi: well... ten is a lot ;p17:24
tgpraveenoh ok cool17:25
tgpraveenshould i mail this to the mailing list?17:25
macvrtgpraveen: you can17:26
tgpraveendo i have to join the mailing list to send a mail? also what is the link to join if i have to17:32
tgpraveen?17:32
macvrtgpraveen:  the subscribe link is here > https://launchpad.net/~ayatana17:39
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
djsiegeldanrabbit: I think the open icon is a bit confusing20:27
danrabbitplease elaborate :p20:27
djsiegeldanrabbit: maybe something that looks more like the regular folder icon, but sort of being peeled open?20:28
djsiegellike the front-right corner is being pulled forward and left, and there is a document in the folder20:28
djsiegelmaybe the document is coming up, out of the folder20:28
danrabbitI was trying to get away from the document thing... but I'll play with it20:29
=== GreySim is now known as GreenSim
=== GreenSim is now known as GreySim
djsiegeldanrabbit: did you revert the trash icon?20:30
danrabbitto the original?20:31
danrabbitfrom Human?20:31
danrabbitno...20:31
djsiegelI thought you changed it to a more recycle bin type thing20:31
djsiegeldanrabbit: the desktop icon is great20:32
djsiegelwhat about stylizing the panel icons, any more thoughts on that?20:32
danrabbitWell, the big problem is this:20:35
danrabbitUSers20:35
danrabbit:D20:35
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
danrabbitIf i knew for a fact that the panel was going to be one color and one color only or at least within a certain range of colors then it would be easy20:36
danrabbitfor example: we could do some color monochrome stuff like Leopard20:36
danrabbitor make the icons look etched into the panel20:36
danrabbitbut, as soon as the user changes the color of the panel20:36
danrabbit:(20:36
GreySimDepending on what you're talking about, there may also be the issue of people deleting one or both panels, or otherwise rearranging them.20:38
djsiegeldanrabbit: please dont worry about panels changing color20:40
danrabbitAre you sure?20:40
macvrdanrabbit: just out of curiosity... what icon set were you guys talking about?21:18
danrabbitHumanity21:18
djsiegelDBO, macvr, what do you think of this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/39360621:18
* macvr checks21:19
DBOInstall Applications... is not exactly accurate either21:19
DBOManage Packages... is more accurate but much less friendly...21:20
djsiegelyeah, I am thinking of really novice users21:20
djsiegelwe can't teach them what a package is...21:20
DBOright21:20
djsiegelthey are looking for "programs" and "applications"21:20
djsiegelor maybe "apps" and even "widgets"21:20
DBOI think programs is a better word than applications21:20
djsiegelbut the menu is "Applications"21:21
DBOAh true21:21
djsiegelthat could look like a glaring error21:21
djsiegeleven though you could be right21:21
DBOthe menu should be Programs =P21:21
djsiegel:)21:21
DBOseriously, Programs is a much more specific word than Applications21:21
macvrdjsiegel: Maybe > "Add/ Remove Applications "21:21
DBOthats too long21:22
macvrah!21:22
DBOit will stretch the menu21:22
danrabbitManage Apps21:22
djsiegelyeah, I just don't know if users actually remove apps21:22
DBOadmittedly i18n will throw a kink in that anyhow21:22
macvr+121:22
djsiegelBrowse applications...21:22
djsiegelthat's very web 2.021:22
djsiegelvery AppStore :)21:22
DBOthats a good way to put it21:23
macvri like danrabbit's  Manage Apps 21:23
DBOManage is a bad word21:23
djsiegel"Manage" makes me think i am only dealing with installed apps21:23
GreySimSounds too much like work.21:23
DBOit implies some kind of administrative functionality beyond a simple installation21:23
danrabbitYea, now that I think about it I don't like Manage either21:23
djsiegellike moving them around21:23
GreySimI do use that tool to remove apps.21:24
danrabbitme too21:25
DBOim not sure its good but "Find Applications..." or "Search Applications..."21:25
djsiegelFind might work21:25
* GreySim never uses Synaptic. Add/Remove for browsing upon a fresh installation, then apt-get directly for specific needs.21:25
GreySimThen Add/Remove again for stuff I was just trying, but didn't like, so now want to remove.21:26
DBOGreySim, thats because you know terminal21:26
djsiegelI love how half of this channel is from gnome-do21:26
DBOi think "Find Applications..." or "Browse Applications..." work best in this situation21:26
DBOAdd/Remove is very windows control panel21:26
GreySimDBO: Right, I'm just saying, I'm theoretically a "power user", but I do use and like the Add/Remove tool. I'm not sure if I was really trying to make a point otherwise though...21:27
DBOand if you think back to that you end up remembering that only dealt with already installed apps21:27
djsiegelalso, you have to install apps before you remove them21:28
danrabbitdjsiegel: oh this isn't #gnome-do?21:28
* danrabbit looks at the tab...21:28
djsiegelyou would learn that apps can be removed after looking through the app the first time21:28
djsiegelhopefully...21:28
macvr" App Janitor" :P21:28
danrabbitlol21:28
djsiegelmacvr: that makes me think of urinal cakes21:28
DBOdjsiegel, I think you would get that, the checkboxes make it pretty clear21:28
danrabbitGet Apps21:29
djsiegelI think checkboxes are really great for plugins (in Do), but it's kind of weird in Add/Remove21:29
DBOof course there are about 100 design issues inside the add remove thingie21:29
djsiegelit's like a watered down synaptic21:29
djsiegelthen you "apply" the change of adding a new app?21:29
djsiegelweird21:29
DBO"Canonical-maintained Applications" -- why the fuck is Canonical?21:29
danrabbityea, it is weird..21:29
djsiegelmpt: hurry up on that AppBrowser thingy21:29
DBOand there should be an Install button or a remove button if its already installed21:30
djsiegelyeah21:30
macvr " +/- Applications " with a tooltip?21:30
djsiegelno21:30
macvrAH!21:30
djsiegelno 'syntax'21:30
macvri'm really on a bad roll!21:30
djsiegelThat's one thing I dislike about "Add/Remove" -- it's like a regex with that '/'21:31
djsiegelmpt: we could really benefit from your thoughts on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/39360621:31
DBOwell the problem is the / is replacing what should be a UI element but doing so with text21:31
DBOI've always hated that when you see foo/bar21:31
DBOor my favorite [foo|bar]21:32
danrabbitCLiCK HeRe To iNSTaLL L33T PRoGRaM$ !!!11!!21:33
macvr"Manage applications" or "App manager"21:33
danrabbitThat's what I said21:33
djsiegeldanrabbit: the preferences icon is a bit squat, it looks like it sits 4-5px below the system monitor icon, for example21:33
macvroops! 21:34
DBOdjsiegel, one more that bugs me about the add/remove manager... the popularity stars are easily mistaken for quality...21:34
djsiegelif you guys think of good suggestions, add them to the bug descriptions21:34
danrabbitdjsiegel, It's vertically centered21:34
djsiegeldanrabbit: yes, I know21:34
danrabbitIt's looks funny taller, like the Do icon.21:35
danrabbitI was thinking of scraping it for just the tools21:35
* macvr thinks he is in the wrong room, checks again to make sure this isnt Gnome DO21:36
GreySimI think someone already suggested this, or similar, but, "Application Browser"21:36
GreySimExcept that doesn't imply installing. So nevermind.21:36
macvrdjsiegel: "App Administrator"21:37
macvrno i take it back!"21:37
* macvr needs to get some rest!21:38
GreySimMake it two entries, possibly using the same tool in two different modes or something. "Get more applications" and "Remove applications".21:39
gus_did anyone took a look at this http://spuriousinterrupt.org/projects/xfce4-notifyd ?21:47
macvrgus_: seem to be still in v0.1 since nov 08!21:48
macvrseems^21:48
gus_well i dont trust that much in version numbers :P21:49
macvrnot being updated is kinda , the devs cant dedicate more time on it21:50
gus_yeah, it seems xfce has few devels and thing go slow, but well.....21:54
kalleperssondanrabbit: ping22:00
djsiegelkallepersson danrabbit kwwii: ok, we're here22:00
danrabbitkallepersson:  :D22:00
kalleperssondanrabbit: what's up?22:00
danrabbitno much, you?22:01
kalleperssonjust had a chat with djsiegel22:01
kalleperssonI'd like to help out22:01
danrabbitsweet22:01
kalleperssondanrabbit: I checked out the icon theme. What is the reason for the extension having text in icons?22:03
danrabbitin Mimes?22:04
kalleperssonI mean, it's good info for us nerds (when we don't check the file name), but regular people just don't (shouldn't)  care22:05
kallepersson(*shouldn't need to)22:05
kalleperssonyes, mime22:05
danrabbitI can see the logic behind that22:05
kalleperssonI like the difference between binary, regular text and code documents though. GNOME-Icon-Theme doesn't do that22:05
danrabbitI think the one's that I did like that were mostly programming languages and that22:07
danrabbitI did it for DO22:07
kalleperssonaha, Isee22:07
danrabbitwant to join this team: https://launchpad.net/~elementaryicons22:08
=== jono_ is now known as jono
SiDigus_: i dont think xfnotifyd is a big priority for them :) but the panel / file manager progress very very fast ;)22:26
gus_SiDi, you might be right, as is it now it has some features that notify-osd dosent even have, like placing notifications in different positions, and lack other but it's just 3k lines of code22:27
macvrdjsiegel: wasnt there talk of merging all the different locations where a user installs programs?[Add/remove , Synaptic ] , I think mpt 's App centre idea is for that... so then removing the Add/remove is better , right?22:33
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
djsiegelyes, that's mpt's domain, but it's not going into Karmic as far as I know22:33
macvrdjsiegel: you might wanna check , he was quite sure App centre is going to be in Karmic22:34
djsiegeloh, ok22:34
djsiegelit was discussed at UDS, you're right22:34
djsiegelmacvr: you should blog about your hundredpapercuts strategy to get more people helping23:46
djsiegelmacvr: we are running low on confirmed paper cuts23:46

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