[12:16]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[15:42] <macvr> MacSlow: thanx for clearing that up :) ... [didnt want to spam the lp]
[15:43] <MacSlow> macvr, np... that's what we're here for too
[15:44] <MacSlow> "gardening" bug-reports is just such a tedious work, as most of the time people don't care looking for duplicates at all and just ram everything into lp no matter what
[15:45] <MacSlow> I usually have gardening-sprees every now and then
[15:45] <macvr> i'v been doing it for the papercuts ...! otherwise the real ones wont get noticed
[15:46] <MacSlow> macvr, yeah the papercuts... overall a good idea... but even that generated some amount of "spam"
[15:47] <macvr> oh my god ... is has so many rants , that when i invalidate one person has sent me personal mail! via the contact user link!
[15:48] <MacSlow> jono, hey... new to see you here :)
[15:49] <jono> hey MacSlow, I always join here :)
[15:49] <MacSlow> macvr, hehe... yeah ... sometimes I wish we had a "slap"-button on lp ;)
[15:49] <macvr> +1^
[15:50] <macvr> MacSlow: the reason why i thought that notify-osd 'had to allow' this extra notification>  i thought it had strict rules as to what uses the notify daemon... my bad!
[15:51] <MacSlow> macvr, oh no... every app can send notifications vis DBus using libnotify 
[15:52] <macvr> only no formatting :(
[15:53] <MacSlow> yeah... please no text-layout system in notify-osd
[15:53] <macvr> djsiegel_: might wanna add this to a milestone > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/392292
[15:54] <djsiegel_> macvr: so, we've collected a lot of great paper cuts since we made the first list of 100
[15:54] <ScottK> Since several of you are involved in XDG stuff, I'm curious for your take on http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/saving-freedesktoporg-together.html
[15:54] <djsiegel_> a lot of them are more "paper-cuty" that our first 100
[15:55] <djsiegel_> if you find ones that look very paper-cut-y, let me know and I can swap them in
[15:55] <macvr> djsiegel_: the above is a real misleading one
[15:55] <djsiegel_> yeah
[15:56] <macvr> djsiegel_: so the 100 has been reached?
[15:56] <djsiegel_> macvr: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/karmic (tentative list)
[15:57] <djsiegel_> some are too hard to be paper cuts, we will discover
[15:57] <djsiegel_> so we will need to swap them with better confirmed paper cuts
[15:58] <macvr> djsiegel_: oh well... i can slow down on the pruning :)
[15:58] <djsiegel_> no, don't!
[15:58] <djsiegel_> :)
[15:58] <djsiegel_> we need the pruning more than ever
[15:59] <macvr> will do as much as i can :)
[16:00] <macvr> I'll notify you of any interesting finds, which could be swaped for the invalids in Karmic
[16:13] <djsiegel_> macvr: ok, I scheduled the tooltip one you just pointed out in this week
[16:31] <macvr> :)
[16:34] <SiDi> MacSlow: has there been any change in the font size in notify-osd ?
[16:34] <SiDi> it looks _really_ little with the bzr trunk branch
[16:35] <MacSlow> I've implemented exactely what the design folks wanted now
[16:37] <SiDi> ah
[16:38] <SiDi> well the design folks should discuss with the accessibility ones, because im 20, my eyes aint bad, and i have trouble reading them :p
[16:39] <SiDi> i'll report a bug :)
[17:04] <tgpraveen> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-notify-osd/ i wanted to discuss about this blueprint specifically the section about consistent feedback for multimedia keys
[17:04] <tgpraveen> does this mean that each time i press play, forward, etc a notification saying play, forward will appear?
[17:06] <tgpraveen> if so then it will be useless and the correct way would be that banshee upon clicking play puts a notification of the song being played <--- and this is a bug on banshee bugzilla which is being/has been fixed and now if we give notification for play key. then each time i hit play there will be two notifications one for play key and one from banshee
[17:06] <tgpraveen> am i wrong in interpreting this blueprint?
[17:10] <SiDi> tgpraveen: i think it should be app-side too
[17:21] <tgpraveen> SiDi: yes. are you in ayatana team/
[17:21] <tgpraveen> ?
[17:23] <macvr> tgpraveen: SiDi manages a lot more ;p
[17:23] <SiDi> tgpraveen: i'm in ayatana discussion ML but i'm not working for Canonical
[17:23] <macvr> he is everywhere , omnipresent
[17:23] <SiDi> macvr: c'mon.. never more than ten channels
[17:24] <macvr> SiDi: well... ten is a lot ;p
[17:25] <tgpraveen> oh ok cool
[17:25] <tgpraveen> should i mail this to the mailing list?
[17:26] <macvr> tgpraveen: you can
[17:32] <tgpraveen> do i have to join the mailing list to send a mail? also what is the link to join if i have to
[17:32] <tgpraveen> ?
[17:39] <macvr> tgpraveen:  the subscribe link is here > https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
[20:27] <djsiegel> danrabbit: I think the open icon is a bit confusing
[20:27] <danrabbit> please elaborate :p
[20:28] <djsiegel> danrabbit: maybe something that looks more like the regular folder icon, but sort of being peeled open?
[20:28] <djsiegel> like the front-right corner is being pulled forward and left, and there is a document in the folder
[20:28] <djsiegel> maybe the document is coming up, out of the folder
[20:29] <danrabbit> I was trying to get away from the document thing... but I'll play with it
[20:30] <djsiegel> danrabbit: did you revert the trash icon?
[20:31] <danrabbit> to the original?
[20:31] <danrabbit> from Human?
[20:31] <danrabbit> no...
[20:31] <djsiegel> I thought you changed it to a more recycle bin type thing
[20:32] <djsiegel> danrabbit: the desktop icon is great
[20:32] <djsiegel> what about stylizing the panel icons, any more thoughts on that?
[20:35] <danrabbit> Well, the big problem is this:
[20:35] <danrabbit> USers
[20:35] <danrabbit> :D
[20:36] <danrabbit> If i knew for a fact that the panel was going to be one color and one color only or at least within a certain range of colors then it would be easy
[20:36] <danrabbit> for example: we could do some color monochrome stuff like Leopard
[20:36] <danrabbit> or make the icons look etched into the panel
[20:36] <danrabbit> but, as soon as the user changes the color of the panel
[20:36] <danrabbit> :(
[20:38] <GreySim> Depending on what you're talking about, there may also be the issue of people deleting one or both panels, or otherwise rearranging them.
[20:40] <djsiegel> danrabbit: please dont worry about panels changing color
[20:40] <danrabbit> Are you sure?
[21:18] <macvr> danrabbit: just out of curiosity... what icon set were you guys talking about?
[21:18] <danrabbit> Humanity
[21:18] <djsiegel> DBO, macvr, what do you think of this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393606
[21:19]  * macvr checks
[21:19] <DBO> Install Applications... is not exactly accurate either
[21:20] <DBO> Manage Packages... is more accurate but much less friendly...
[21:20] <djsiegel> yeah, I am thinking of really novice users
[21:20] <djsiegel> we can't teach them what a package is...
[21:20] <DBO> right
[21:20] <djsiegel> they are looking for "programs" and "applications"
[21:20] <djsiegel> or maybe "apps" and even "widgets"
[21:20] <DBO> I think programs is a better word than applications
[21:21] <djsiegel> but the menu is "Applications"
[21:21] <DBO> Ah true
[21:21] <djsiegel> that could look like a glaring error
[21:21] <djsiegel> even though you could be right
[21:21] <DBO> the menu should be Programs =P
[21:21] <djsiegel> :)
[21:21] <DBO> seriously, Programs is a much more specific word than Applications
[21:21] <macvr> djsiegel: Maybe > "Add/ Remove Applications "
[21:22] <DBO> thats too long
[21:22] <macvr> ah!
[21:22] <DBO> it will stretch the menu
[21:22] <danrabbit> Manage Apps
[21:22] <djsiegel> yeah, I just don't know if users actually remove apps
[21:22] <DBO> admittedly i18n will throw a kink in that anyhow
[21:22] <macvr> +1
[21:22] <djsiegel> Browse applications...
[21:22] <djsiegel> that's very web 2.0
[21:22] <djsiegel> very AppStore :)
[21:23] <DBO> thats a good way to put it
[21:23] <macvr> i like danrabbit's  Manage Apps 
[21:23] <DBO> Manage is a bad word
[21:23] <djsiegel> "Manage" makes me think i am only dealing with installed apps
[21:23] <GreySim> Sounds too much like work.
[21:23] <DBO> it implies some kind of administrative functionality beyond a simple installation
[21:23] <danrabbit> Yea, now that I think about it I don't like Manage either
[21:23] <djsiegel> like moving them around
[21:24] <GreySim> I do use that tool to remove apps.
[21:25] <danrabbit> me too
[21:25] <DBO> im not sure its good but "Find Applications..." or "Search Applications..."
[21:25] <djsiegel> Find might work
[21:25]  * GreySim never uses Synaptic. Add/Remove for browsing upon a fresh installation, then apt-get directly for specific needs.
[21:26] <GreySim> Then Add/Remove again for stuff I was just trying, but didn't like, so now want to remove.
[21:26] <DBO> GreySim, thats because you know terminal
[21:26] <djsiegel> I love how half of this channel is from gnome-do
[21:26] <DBO> i think "Find Applications..." or "Browse Applications..." work best in this situation
[21:26] <DBO> Add/Remove is very windows control panel
[21:27] <GreySim> DBO: Right, I'm just saying, I'm theoretically a "power user", but I do use and like the Add/Remove tool. I'm not sure if I was really trying to make a point otherwise though...
[21:27] <DBO> and if you think back to that you end up remembering that only dealt with already installed apps
[21:28] <djsiegel> also, you have to install apps before you remove them
[21:28] <danrabbit> djsiegel: oh this isn't #gnome-do?
[21:28]  * danrabbit looks at the tab...
[21:28] <djsiegel> you would learn that apps can be removed after looking through the app the first time
[21:28] <djsiegel> hopefully...
[21:28] <macvr> " App Janitor" :P
[21:28] <danrabbit> lol
[21:28] <djsiegel> macvr: that makes me think of urinal cakes
[21:28] <DBO> djsiegel, I think you would get that, the checkboxes make it pretty clear
[21:29] <danrabbit> Get Apps
[21:29] <djsiegel> I think checkboxes are really great for plugins (in Do), but it's kind of weird in Add/Remove
[21:29] <DBO> of course there are about 100 design issues inside the add remove thingie
[21:29] <djsiegel> it's like a watered down synaptic
[21:29] <djsiegel> then you "apply" the change of adding a new app?
[21:29] <djsiegel> weird
[21:29] <DBO> "Canonical-maintained Applications" -- why the fuck is Canonical?
[21:29] <danrabbit> yea, it is weird..
[21:29] <djsiegel> mpt: hurry up on that AppBrowser thingy
[21:30] <DBO> and there should be an Install button or a remove button if its already installed
[21:30] <djsiegel> yeah
[21:30] <macvr>  " +/- Applications " with a tooltip?
[21:30] <djsiegel> no
[21:30] <macvr> AH!
[21:30] <djsiegel> no 'syntax'
[21:30] <macvr> i'm really on a bad roll!
[21:31] <djsiegel> That's one thing I dislike about "Add/Remove" -- it's like a regex with that '/'
[21:31] <djsiegel> mpt: we could really benefit from your thoughts on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393606
[21:31] <DBO> well the problem is the / is replacing what should be a UI element but doing so with text
[21:31] <DBO> I've always hated that when you see foo/bar
[21:32] <DBO> or my favorite [foo|bar]
[21:33] <danrabbit> CLiCK HeRe To iNSTaLL L33T PRoGRaM$ !!!11!!
[21:33] <macvr> "Manage applications" or "App manager"
[21:33] <danrabbit> That's what I said
[21:33] <djsiegel> danrabbit: the preferences icon is a bit squat, it looks like it sits 4-5px below the system monitor icon, for example
[21:34] <macvr> oops! 
[21:34] <DBO> djsiegel, one more that bugs me about the add/remove manager... the popularity stars are easily mistaken for quality...
[21:34] <djsiegel> if you guys think of good suggestions, add them to the bug descriptions
[21:34] <danrabbit> djsiegel, It's vertically centered
[21:34] <djsiegel> danrabbit: yes, I know
[21:35] <danrabbit> It's looks funny taller, like the Do icon.
[21:35] <danrabbit> I was thinking of scraping it for just the tools
[21:36]  * macvr thinks he is in the wrong room, checks again to make sure this isnt Gnome DO
[21:36] <GreySim> I think someone already suggested this, or similar, but, "Application Browser"
[21:36] <GreySim> Except that doesn't imply installing. So nevermind.
[21:37] <macvr> djsiegel: "App Administrator"
[21:37] <macvr> no i take it back!"
[21:38]  * macvr needs to get some rest!
[21:39] <GreySim> Make it two entries, possibly using the same tool in two different modes or something. "Get more applications" and "Remove applications".
[21:47] <gus_> did anyone took a look at this http://spuriousinterrupt.org/projects/xfce4-notifyd ?
[21:48] <macvr> gus_: seem to be still in v0.1 since nov 08!
[21:48] <macvr> seems^
[21:49] <gus_> well i dont trust that much in version numbers :P
[21:50] <macvr> not being updated is kinda , the devs cant dedicate more time on it
[21:54] <gus_> yeah, it seems xfce has few devels and thing go slow, but well.....
[22:00] <kallepersson> danrabbit: ping
[22:00] <djsiegel> kallepersson danrabbit kwwii: ok, we're here
[22:00] <danrabbit> kallepersson:  :D
[22:00] <kallepersson> danrabbit: what's up?
[22:01] <danrabbit> no much, you?
[22:01] <kallepersson> just had a chat with djsiegel
[22:01] <kallepersson> I'd like to help out
[22:01] <danrabbit> sweet
[22:03] <kallepersson> danrabbit: I checked out the icon theme. What is the reason for the extension having text in icons?
[22:04] <danrabbit> in Mimes?
[22:05] <kallepersson> I mean, it's good info for us nerds (when we don't check the file name), but regular people just don't (shouldn't)  care
[22:05] <kallepersson> (*shouldn't need to)
[22:05] <kallepersson> yes, mime
[22:05] <danrabbit> I can see the logic behind that
[22:05] <kallepersson> I like the difference between binary, regular text and code documents though. GNOME-Icon-Theme doesn't do that
[22:07] <danrabbit> I think the one's that I did like that were mostly programming languages and that
[22:07] <danrabbit> I did it for DO
[22:07] <kallepersson> aha, Isee
[22:08] <danrabbit> want to join this team: https://launchpad.net/~elementaryicons
[22:26] <SiDi> gus_: i dont think xfnotifyd is a big priority for them :) but the panel / file manager progress very very fast ;)
[22:27] <gus_> SiDi, you might be right, as is it now it has some features that notify-osd dosent even have, like placing notifications in different positions, and lack other but it's just 3k lines of code
[22:33] <macvr> djsiegel: wasnt there talk of merging all the different locations where a user installs programs?[Add/remove , Synaptic ] , I think mpt 's App centre idea is for that... so then removing the Add/remove is better , right?
[22:33] <djsiegel> yes, that's mpt's domain, but it's not going into Karmic as far as I know
[22:34] <macvr> djsiegel: you might wanna check , he was quite sure App centre is going to be in Karmic
[22:34] <djsiegel> oh, ok
[22:34] <djsiegel> it was discussed at UDS, you're right
[23:46] <djsiegel> macvr: you should blog about your hundredpapercuts strategy to get more people helping
[23:46] <djsiegel> macvr: we are running low on confirmed paper cuts