[00:00] <kwwii> Riddell: honestly, it is not going to be much more than that :)
[00:00] <kwwii> that shows me that perhaps the kubuntu logo should be engraved on it
[00:00] <kwwii> and perhaps one color
[00:00] <kwwii> not sure about the rotation
[00:00] <kwwii> but all in all, that is the main point for this icon
[00:01]  * apachelogger thinks purple => blue is a good idea
[00:01] <kwwii> man, I had really hoped to get this icon finished :(
[00:01] <kwwii> I promise to finish it asap
[00:01] <Riddell> time up I'm afraid
[00:01] <kwwii> yepp, thanks for the interest in making boring pictrograms
[00:02]  * apachelogger applauds
[00:02] <apachelogger> kwwii: one question though, where do I sign up as one of your groupies? :)
[00:02] <Riddell> if anyone else gets it finished please add to the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay wiki page
[00:02] <kwwii> apachelogger: ask my wife, she is in charge of the fans :p
[00:02] <Wormik> Who will come next?
[00:02] <apachelogger> hehe, okidoki :D
[00:02] <kwwii> indeed, if anyone has any ideas or such please add it to the page or email me personally
[00:03] <sven423> Wormik: /me waves
[00:03] <Riddell> time for our final talk!
[00:03] <Riddell> with special guest speaker sven423 from Amarok
[00:04]  * Kabal458 cheers amaroK!!!!
[00:04] <Riddell> talking about Amarok Scripting
[00:04] <sven423> ok, hello everyone ^^
[00:04] <Riddell> take it away sven423!
[00:04] <sven423> so, before I start the boring introduction: it would be a good idea if you have a recent version of Amarok installed
[00:05] <Kabal458> sven423: 2.1.1 good enough?
[00:05] <sven423> so fire up your favorite package manager and install the latest version tehre is
[00:05] <sven423> 2.1.1 preferred
[00:05] <sven423> Kabal458: yes
[00:05] <Riddell> instrictions here for jaunty users http://www.kubuntu.org/news/amarok-2.1
[00:05] <sven423> if you use svn: just fix the bugs you encounter during the next hour ;)
[00:05] <Riddell> karmic users can just apt-get install amarok
[00:06] <sven423> while downloading: the introduction
[00:06] <sven423> my name is Sven Krohlas, i'm in the Amarok team since 2006 or so, back then doing mainly promotion stuff
[00:07] <sven423> last year I started amarok scripting while integrating the Free Music Charts into Amarok
[00:07] <sven423> (HINT: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Free+Music+Charts?content=91484 <-- cool script)
[00:07] <sven423> currently i'm working on a somewhat related GSoC project
[00:08] <sven423> oh, and the useualy stuff: i'm 26, study computer science in karlsruhe, germany
[00:08] <sven423> so, that should be enough time to install amarok, I hope ;)
[00:08] <nantal> 10 seconds, yet :)
[00:08] <sven423> well, now let's get to scripting
[00:09] <sven423> hehe, you won't need it in the first 10 seconds
[00:09] <nantal> it's ready
[00:09] <sven423> so, basically there are two ways to enhance amarok with scripts: d-bus and qtscript
[00:10] <sven423> d-bus is the rather "boring" approach. there you can remote.control amarok
[00:10] <sven423> something like "qdbus org.kde.amarok /Player Play" would amarok start playing, for example
[00:11] <sven423> this is nice when you have to interact with other apps, but today we focus on the second approach: QtScript
[00:11] <sven423> == What's QtScript? ==
[00:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/usb-creator.png mine got more blue :P
[00:12] <sven423> you all heard of ECMA, better known as JavaScript. qtscript is basically javascript with bindings to the qt libs
[00:12] <sven423> so you can use nearly all of qt in your amarok enhancements
[00:13] <sven423> the scripts you write get interpreted by the Amarok script engine, which also offers a lot of amarok specific apis
[00:13] <kwwii> americans and such will know it as javascript, ecma is the real name but mainly only known in europe
[00:13] <sven423> you have bindings for qtcore, qtxml (very important when parsing information sources), qtgui 8to create your own gui...)
[00:14] <sven423> qtnetwork, qtsql and, very cool, the qtuitools
[00:14] <sven423> with the uitools you can create your .ui files graphically in qtdesigner and then use them in amarok
[00:15] <sven423> so, that paart was very theoretical...
[00:15] <sven423> == What can be done with QtScript? ==
[00:15] <sven423> for example: have a look at the services in Amarok 2
[00:16] <sven423> the LibriVox service is completely written in qtscript
[00:16] <sven423> also the rather trivial "cool streams" service
[00:16] <sven423> or, if you installed some additional ones: the BBC and NPR integration, too
[00:17]  * Riddell finds /usr/share/kde4/apps/amarok/scripts/librivox_service/main.js
[00:17] <sven423> exactly
[00:17] <sven423> each script consists of at least 2 parts: the main.js and a script.spec file
[00:18] <sven423> the main.js contains the javascript sources, of course
[00:18] <sven423> the script.spec some infos amarok needs to know about the script
[00:18] <sven423> for example: the kind of script we have
[00:19] <sven423> the ones I mentioned up to now are all "scripted services"
[00:19] <sven423> they show up in the internet services area and integrate a service of some kind
[00:19] <sven423> other categroies are: lyrics and generic
[00:20] <sven423> lyrics scripts are here to integrate... SURPRISE... lyrics from different sources
[00:20] <sven423> and all the rest(TM) are generic scripts, like the alarm script
[00:20] <sven423> (which is a cool way to make a radio clock alarm device out of your quad core machine)
[00:21] <sven423> if you are not yet asleep: go to the script manager
[00:21] <sven423> there is one gerneric script called "script console"
[00:22] <sven423> activate it
[00:22] <sven423> the script console, itself a script, does nothing else but interpret script code you enter there
[00:22] <sven423> so it's a nice demo and debugging tool
[00:23] <sven423> enter: Amarok.Window.Statusbar.longMessage( "Hello #kubuntu-devel" );
[00:23] <sven423> this is a very trivial example of the amarok apis
[00:23] <Riddell> ooh it works
[00:23] <sven423> just shows a small notification on the left down corner of the amarok window
[00:24] <kwwii> so how far does this control go?
[00:24] <sven423> Amarok.Engine.Play(); <-- starts playback
[00:24] <kwwii> seems pretty killer, just wondering where one could go with it
[00:24] <sven423> kwwii: well, a lot of stuff is possible
[00:25] <sven423> you could for example even send your own sql to the amarok database
[00:25] <nantal> hhmm
[00:25] <sven423> Amarok Scripting API
[00:25] <sven423> http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Development/Script_API
[00:25] <nantal> it doesen't work, i think
[00:25] <sven423> that's the current api ^
[00:25] <Kabal458> sven423: is editing tags possible?
[00:25] <nantal> because it writed "undefined"
[00:25] <kwwii> works here just fine...really nifty if you ask me
[00:25] <Riddell> nantal: look in the bottom left of the main amarok window
[00:26] <nantal> yes, its a button, add aplet
[00:26] <sven423> nantal: "undefined" means sth did go wrong... a typo, of empty playlist for the play command...
[00:26] <WielkieG> What's a function for writing to script console?
[00:26] <kanibal> Can I send "delete * from artist"???
[00:27] <sven423> WielkieG: the script console itself is not scriptable
[00:27] <sven423> kanibal: theoretically yes
[00:27] <cpk> Is there a difference in the level top which JavaScript vs. Python are supported for scripting? I've been playing with both (per the examples in SVN) and would much rather use Python than JavaScript.
[00:27] <kanibal> So dangerous!!!!
[00:28] <sven423> kanibal: of course it's as with all code you run on your machine: don't run it if it comes from untrusted sources
[00:28] <kanibal> ok, of course
[00:28] <sven423> cpk: with python you could do two thins: use d-bus or write scripted context applets
[00:29]  * sven423 REALLY wants to encourage everybode to use QtScript
[00:29] <sven423> due to several reasons:
[00:29] <sven423> * it runs out of the box, no additional dependencies (as long as you don't use QProcess to run another app)
[00:30] <sven423> (yeah, finally, my cat jumped onto the desk)
[00:30] <sven423> * it runs platform independent
[00:30] <sven423> so from a users point of view: it just works(TM)
[00:30] <sven423> and it also makes life easier for packagers
[00:31] <WielkieG> I found something interesting :)
[00:31] <WielkieG> scriptConsoleMainWindow.historyList.addItem("Hello, World!");
[00:31] <cpk> got it -- thanks
[00:32] <sven423> WielkieG: hm?
[00:32] <WielkieG> it inserts a line into script console
[00:33] <WielkieG> so it's scriptable, I think :)
[00:33] <Riddell> meta-scripting
[00:33] <sven423> that would surprise me...
[00:33] <sven423> anyway ;)
[00:33] <sven423> well, the console already does some kind of meta-scripting
[00:34] <sven423> ok, some important apis:
[00:34] <sven423> each script gets interpreted in its own script engine
[00:34] <sven423> so if you want to use some aprts of qt use sth like:
[00:34] <sven423> Importer.loadQtBinding( "qt.xml" );
[00:35] <sven423> et voilà: you are able to use QDomDocument and similar stuff in your script
[00:35] <sven423> perfect for parsing feeds, xml, web sites, etc
[00:35] <sven423> but... before you can aprse sth you need to download it....
[00:36] <sven423> so here we have two things: the Downloader and the DataDownloader
[00:36] <sven423> a = new Downloader( xmlUrl, fmcShowsXmlParser ); <--- from the free music cahrts script
[00:37] <sven423> downloads from xmlUrl and calls fmcShowsXmlParser() when the download has finished
[00:37] <sven423> so you don't have to care about networking errors and similar ugly stuff
[00:37] <sven423> the Downloader is for test, the dataDownlaoder for binaries
[00:38] <sven423> *text
[00:38] <sven423> one rather big limitation currently is the influence scripts can have on the gui
[00:39] <sven423> you can add menu entries to the tools- and settings-menu
[00:39] <sven423> call the osd or put messages into the status bar
[00:39] <sven423> create a scripted service... but that's it atm
[00:39] <sven423> so sadly no context menus in the playlist, yet
[00:40] <sven423> btw, if anyone has questions: just ask ^^
[00:40] <Riddell> no scripted centre widgets then?
[00:40] <sven423> Riddell: NEW NEW NEW in 2.2 svn: yes, there they are possible ^^
[00:41] <Riddell> that's exciting
[00:41] <sven423> but not yet in a released version
[00:41] <sven423> with those something like a karaoke applet could be done
[00:41] <Riddell> very important applet for conferences that
[00:41] <sven423> iff there is a good source for lyrics with timestamps on the net
[00:41] <YenTheFirst> A question in the back of my mind: I never really scripted amarok 1.4, but I understand it could be scripted in ruby. Is that no longer true in 2?
[00:42] <sven423> YenTheFirst: 1.4 only had DCOP, the successor of D-BUS
[00:42] <Riddell> rgreening: barbie girl with amarok coming soon!
[00:42] <rgreening> lol
[00:42] <sven423> and DCOP/D-BUS can be used from whatever you like
[00:42] <sven423> Riddell: yeah! ;)
[00:43] <sven423> YenTheFirst: but as I said before: we would like to encourage everyone to use qtscript, due to the reasons I outliened above
[00:43] <kanibal> Can I do some DSP with the tracks??
[00:44] <sven423> kanibal: only when calling external apps with QProcess or implementing the logic in the script...
[00:44] <sven423> but both would be more or less a hack
[00:44] <sven423> depending on what you want to do exactly
[00:44] <Kabal458> Another question: I can't seem to find the spec on the object returned from Amarok.Engine.currentTrack(), is there any way to get the members of this object?
[00:44] <kanibal> for example a karaoke plugin
[00:45] <kanibal> remove some frecuences
[00:45] <sven423> Kabal458: good point, I guess atm you need to look it up in the sources
[00:46] <Kabal458> yay lol
[00:46] <sven423> Kabal458: maybe the docs could be improved on that part...
[00:46] <Kabal458> if i figure it out i'll make a change ;)
[00:46] <WielkieG> I created write() and list() functions for that purpose :)
[00:46] <Kabal458> :o can i persuade you to share?
[00:46] <sven423> kanibal: I guess that's currently not really possible :/
[00:47] <WielkieG> write = function(str) { scriptConsoleMainWindow.historyList.addItem(str); }
[00:47] <sven423> sharing is a good keyword: i'd also like to encourage every script developer to use our public SVN
[00:47] <WielkieG> list = function(obj) { for (x in obj) { write(x); } }
[00:47] <sven423> we have a directory for contributed scripts there
[00:47] <sven423> amarok/playground/src/scripts
[00:47] <sven423> so you get code reviews and are notified early on api changes
[00:48] <Kabal458> how does the contribution process work?
[00:48] <sven423> Kabal458: currently... get an svn account, check it in... there are not yet many scripts sot ehre is not yet an established process
[00:49] <Kabal458> awesome :) how do we go about getting an svn account?
[00:49] <sven423> we use svn.kde.org
[00:49] <sven423> somewhere on kde.org the steps are outlined
[00:49] <Nightrose> Kabal458: there is a page with information on techbase.kde.org
[00:50] <sven423> Nightrose++
[00:50] <Kabal458> thanks! alright I'll have a look
[00:50] <Nightrose> Kabal458: if you have questions about that poke me
[00:50] <sven423> so, one nice feature i'd like to show: Amarok-Urls <--- I REALLY love those
[00:50] <Nightrose> or sven423
[00:51] <sven423> open a service in amarok, like jamendo, the fmc, librivox, magnatune, etc
[00:51] <sven423> right click on an album -> add bookmark
[00:51] <sven423> or better: "bookmark this album"
[00:51] <sven423> then add the "bookmarks" applet to the context view
[00:51] <sven423> there you see the bookmark
[00:51] <sven423> select it
[00:52] <sven423> and in the address filed you see sth like:
[00:52] <sven423> amarok://navigate/service/Free%20Music%20Charts//%222009-05%20/%20May%202009%22
[00:52] <sven423> those urls can be used to navigate in amarok, send links to free albums to your friends, etc
[00:52] <sven423> also as position markers
[00:52] <sven423> inside a song
[00:53] <sven423> the service front page in the services context applet uses those
[00:53] <sven423> or the fmc-script to link to jamendo in the song details info
[00:54] <sven423> and yes, theoretically they can also be used in web sites to open a specific album in amarok
[00:54] <sven423> (but please make it so that other players still work, too)
[00:55] <sven423> so with that you can make cross-service features or integrate amarok with a web application
[00:56] <sven423> ok, those were the most important points on my cheat sheet ^^
[00:56] <sven423> questions, questions, questions ^^
[00:56] <Riddell> how hard is it to export a qtscript API from within an application?
[00:57] <sven423> oh, dammit, I just have to do such stuff for my GSoC project
[00:57] <sven423> as long as you want to export QObject based classes: quite easy
[00:57] <sven423> others are relatively hard, you need to write wrappers and suchs tuff
[00:58] <sven423> but for QObject based ones you can make all public slots available to a script within minutes
[00:58] <sven423> (once you understood how it goes)
[00:58] <sven423> the code for that is in ScriptManager.cpp in Amarok
[00:58] <sven423> also AmarokTest.cpp does that stuff
[00:59] <WielkieG> sven423: (a bit offtopic) What do you know about integrating QtWebKit's JSC into QtScript?
[01:00] <sven423> not much
[01:00] <sven423> I doN't know which js engine qt is using for scripts internally
[01:00] <sven423> but I think code sharing would really make sense
[01:01] <sven423> so maybe there is some webkit code in it... dunno
[01:01] <YenTheFirst> time for me to go. Thank you for your talks!
[01:01] <Riddell> it's been a packed five hours, well done to anyone who followed all the talks
[01:02] <sven423> so, I hope it was not too much information for one hour ^^
[01:02] <Riddell> and thanks very much to our speakers, sven423, kwwii, rgreening, apachelogger
[01:02] <WielkieG> I'll better go too. Thank you all for that interesting conversation :)
[01:02] <kanibal> sven423: there is a plan for a graphic equalizer?
[01:02] <Kabal458> sven423: nah its good! I will have to look into SVN Amarok
[01:02] <Riddell> I'll put edited  logs up tomorrow on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay  the full thing is at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[01:03] <sven423> kanibal: yep, but we need phonon support for that. but afaik it is being worked on
[01:03] <Riddell> the channel is open for any questions now, on Amarok or KDE or Kubuntu
[01:03] <kanibal> ok, thanks
[01:03] <Riddell> although it's probably bed time for the Europeans
[01:04] <rgreening> yay
[01:04]  * apachelogger will so fall alseep tomorrow at the dentist's :D
[01:04] <sven423> it's 2AM here ;)
[01:04] <rgreening> :)
[01:04] <apachelogger> awesome talks
[01:04] <rgreening> 9:30 here
[01:04] <kanibal> this is the way to "Amarok Media Player"?
[01:04] <Riddell> rgreening: what sort of weird timezone are you on?
[01:04]  * rgreening is playing new Indiana game on WII
[01:04] <rgreening> lol
[01:04] <rgreening> NDT
[01:04] <rgreening> GMT -3:30
[01:05] <rgreening> UTC -2:30
[01:05] <rgreening> back to wii
[01:06] <sven423> oh, I almost forgot
[01:06] <sven423> http://krohlas.de/blog/2009-06-24-LinuxTag_Berlin.odp
[01:06] <sven423> slides of a workshop about amarok scripting ^
[01:06] <sven423> basically I did that stuff inside there
[01:06] <apachelogger> sven423: add it to http://www.kde.org/kdeslides/
[01:06] <kanibal> thanks
[01:07] <sven423> apachelogger: good idea... tomorrow then
[01:07] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic restore
[01:07] <Riddell> clever kubotu
[01:07] <apachelogger> indeed
[01:07] <apachelogger> :)
[01:08] <yuriy> not much of a Q&A?
[01:08]  * apachelogger is too tired for A :P
[01:08] <apachelogger> gotta go to bed
[01:08] <Riddell> yuriy: after 5 hours of tutorials everyone is a bit tired for it :)
[01:12] <DaskreeCH> \o/
[01:12] <DaskreeCH> How was Tutorial day?
[01:17] <Riddell> DaskreeCH: it kicked arse
[01:17]  * sven423 goes to sleep
[01:17] <sven423> cu
[01:17] <DaskreeCH> Whoot :-)
[01:18] <Riddell> but time for sleep now
[02:18] <claydoh> missed tutorials day :( darn work keeps getting in the way :/
[02:20] <kanibal> the tutorials are here : http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/29/%23kubuntu-devel.html
[02:20] <claydoh> I know, just missed being able to be 'live'
[03:01] <blackmoon> hi, what's the right place for report a bug for "kgpg~ppa" ?
[08:23] <Lure> Riddell: after reading KubuntuKarmicSocialFromtheStart: should we add kipi-plugins to cd to have also facebook/flickr/picasaweb/... photo sharing expirience in gwenview by default?
[08:24]  * Lure does not recall what was the reason for not having it in jaunty - probably cd space issues, as always :-(
[10:07] <Riddell> morning lovely people
[10:08] <shadeslayer> Riddell: hey!
[10:09] <blackmoon> hi, what's the right place for report a bug for "kgpg~ppa" ?
[10:10] <Riddell> blackmoon: go for it
[10:13] <blackmoon> Riddell: In Kgpg, when I click on menu: "Keys" --> "Generating new key pair" --> "Expert Mode" (button), not all options (for expert) appears in the Konsole window. The "--gen-key" must be replaced with "--gen-key --expert" in the file "keysmanager.cpp" at line 505.   Patch is here: http://pastebin.com/m4e7cfe40
[10:14]  * apachelogger rubies a parser for KDE po moves
[10:21] <jscurtu> Riddell: Hi Riddell... Have a question about packagin KDE, right now I am downloading me the KDE sources from svn /tag/4.2.95... paralell I am getting me the KDE sources from apt-get source... I am doing this for exercise only, I want to copy the debian directorys to the /tag/4.2.95 sources and compile them on to my system... all I want to know is if that will work, or is this not a good idea?? can I remove the patches to get a vanilla 
[10:22] <Riddell> that'll work
[10:22] <jscurtu> cool.... thanks..
[10:22] <Riddell> it'll moan about not having a .orig.tar.gz but that's not a problem
[10:22] <Riddell> you can rm debian/patches/* if you want no changes
[10:23] <jscurtu> wanted to make the .orig.tar.gz
[10:23] <Riddell> tar zcf kdetoys_4.2.95svn20090630.orig.tar.gz kdetoys
[10:23] <Riddell> would do it
[10:24] <Riddell> note that kdelibs is kde4libs for source package
[10:25] <jscurtu> I seen that kdebase was split in more sources then the original, so i have to seperate them right?
[10:25] <Riddell> yes
[10:25] <Riddell> kdebase/workspace becomes kdebase-workspace, same for runtime
[10:25] <jscurtu> exact, thought so...
[10:27] <jscurtu> thanks for your help, now that i know i am on the right way i will continue :-)
[10:27] <blackmoon> Riddell: have you take down the bug for kgpg? :)
[10:33] <Riddell> blackmoon: it's now on my todo to look into
[10:33] <Riddell> blackmoon: I'll get to it shortly, bugs with patches are the best sort :)
[10:34]  * apachelogger got lost in hash/array logic
[10:35] <blackmoon> Riddell: ok, great :)
[10:54] <DreadKnight> just awesome... did some updates recently and now i don't have sound ... not even kmix in the tray
[10:54] <Riddell> Lure: that's something we should consider
[10:54] <DreadKnight> i should stop updating this
[10:54] <Riddell> DreadKnight: same here
[10:54] <Riddell> alsa problem I think, alsamixer doesn't start
[10:54] <DreadKnight> ......
[10:55] <DreadKnight> this is lame
[11:00] <DreadKnight> i should make a tattoo saying "never upgrade a non stable install, because shit always break up for sure"
[11:00] <DreadKnight> i blame it all on intel because of the crap video drivers from jaunty
[11:00] <DreadKnight> xD
[11:01] <DreadKnight> hope i will have sound within a day or two at most..
[11:20] <DreadKnight> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3995
[11:21] <DreadKnight> what it annoys me is that now there is rekonq as well (which is useless duplicated effort and has a 'rekrap' name as well)
[11:22] <DreadKnight> seems both are in the repository, gonna take them for a test run
[11:38] <DreadKnight> hmm, rekonq is nicer than arora
[11:39] <Tm_T> but is not as ready IIRC
[11:39] <DreadKnight> uses kde icons, has good default for GUI (no bookmarks toolbar, no shitty bookmarks, nicer start page leading to kde, home button and new tab)
[11:40] <DreadKnight> but I guess that stuff can be configured out for default installs
[11:40] <Tm_T> sure can, and Arora uses "KDE icons" here
[11:40] <DreadKnight> how many years does it takes for web browsers to get a new tab button by default...
[11:40] <DreadKnight> yeah, probably not the latest trunk version binary in karmic
[11:41] <DreadKnight> anyway, arora has way better name
[11:41] <Tm_T> hmm, I have several months old binary
[11:41] <DreadKnight> i used 0.7.1
[11:41] <DreadKnight> it has kde icons, but way less used than rekonq
[11:42] <DreadKnight> oh, arora has a new tab button, which i expected to be a close tab one
[11:42] <DreadKnight> neat
[11:42] <Riddell> rekonq is nice but the upstream says it's not ready for use and has big re-writes coming so we go with what's ready
[11:43] <DreadKnight> good
[11:43] <DreadKnight> they both worked flawlessly with google docs ^^
[11:43] <DreadKnight> damn fast
[11:43] <jussi01> oh bollocks...
[11:43] <jussi01> Riddell: can haz kubuntu membership? :/
[11:44] <DreadKnight> can haz sound in karmic? :\
[11:44] <Mamarok> jussi01: you don't have that yet?
[11:44] <jussi01> Mamarok: Im an *ubuntu* member...
[11:44] <jussi01> DreadKnight: no!
[11:44] <jussi01> :D
[11:44] <DreadKnight> jussi01: T_T
[11:44] <Mamarok> so am I, and a Kubuntu one too :)
[11:44] <DreadKnight> *sniff*
[11:45]  * jussi01 cant vote in the kubuntu council vote atm :/
[11:45]  * DreadKnight feels like installing another distro
[11:45] <DreadKnight> this is what i get for upgrading all the time
[11:45] <Mamarok> jussi01: try influencing me in secret :)
[11:45] <DreadKnight> lol
[11:46] <jussi01> Mamarok: hahah
[11:46] <Riddell> I hear the going rate for a Yes vote is 10 bug fixes
[11:46] <jussi01> Mamarok: they are all good choices though :D
[11:46] <Riddell> jussi01: you have to come to a meeting I'm afraid
[11:47] <jussi01> Riddell: ahh, may I be so lazy as to ask when the next one is?
[11:47] <Riddell> jussi01: none planned, after GCDS
[11:47] <jussi01> oh :/
[11:47] <jussi01> *grumble*
[11:48]  * jussi01 goes to secretly influence Mamarok
[11:49] <Riddell> Czessi: ping?
[11:49] <Riddell> Czessi: going to send the poster to GCDS?
[11:51] <jussi01> Riddell: also, was going to ask if you knew why we dont automount the iphone picture dir, as ubuntu does?
[11:51] <Riddell> jussi01: does it appear in the device applet?
[11:51] <jussi01> nope
[11:52] <Riddell> probably an issue with solid then
[11:52] <Riddell> not recognising what hal is telling it
[11:52] <Tm_T> but meh, I wouldn't touch to rekonq even with long stick, maybe that's just me and my suspiciousness
[11:53] <jussi01> ok. what can we/I do to help? Ill report a bug soonish, but other than that?
[11:53] <Riddell> poke ervin :)
[11:54] <jussi01> ok  then :)
[11:57] <Ke> what is the relation between webkit part and rekonq?
[11:57] <Ke> nothing?
[11:58] <Riddell> nothing yet, I believe rekonq is being rewritten to use kdewebkit
[12:02] <Ke> having a browser that could cache things in memory and do ui actions in separate threads from IO delays would be ♥
[12:36] <Tm_T> Ke: indeed, for fun though, it's interesting to compare CLI-browsers opening pages containing "only"(one or two pics isn't really slowdown) text and doing the same with GUI browser
[12:37] <Tm_T> speed difference is huge
[13:04] <Czessi> Riddell: Hi, didn't you read my emails? Today I'n'T  time to go to the post offen, I can do it fist time tomorrow, but it needs 10 days to arrived at GCDS and then the GCDS is over. I ask some people at Linuxtag i they can pick up the poster stand, but i've find nobody
[13:05] <Czessi> Riddell: Today I'n'T  => Today I've no
[13:06] <Czessi> Riddell: Nightrose and sebas also knowing about the poster stand problem
[13:34] <Riddell> Czessi: meh fooey
[13:34] <Riddell> best not bother then if nobody will volunteer to carry it and it'll take too long to post
[13:36] <micmord> Riddell: last night irc log? Where I can find it?
[13:38] <seele> i'm a little confused how the poll thing works on launchpad
[13:38] <seele> the kubuntu council members 2009 poll says it is closed?
[13:38] <seele> but then there are a list of individuals
[13:40] <neversfelde> and you can vote all 4 members with yes
[13:40] <neversfelde> what happens when everyone is doing that? :)
[13:50] <seele> ooh, so each person is their own poll?
[13:51] <neversfelde> yes
[13:54] <shtylman> Riddell: http://imagebin.ca/view/weW7mfVn.html <-- mofux over at #oxygen passsed that along to me as another potential idea
[13:56] <Riddell> shtylman: is nice, fitting in with the air theme quite well
[13:56] <shtylman> indeed
[13:56] <Riddell> seele: "kubuntu council members 2009" was a mistake, ignore it
[13:56] <shtylman> im gonna try to put it on my skeleton app and see how that goes in the next day or two
[13:56] <Riddell> micmord: irclogs.ubuntu.com    working on the edited version now
[13:57] <jscurtu> Riddell: its me agian, one more question I got kdeaccessibility compiled, did a dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --list-missing and it shows me : dh_install: debian/tmp/usr/lib/libkttsd.so exists in debian/tmp/ but is not installed to anywhere .......... what do I do in such a situation?
[13:57] <micmord> Riddell: thanks
[13:57] <Riddell> jscurtu: I suspect there's a  debian/not-instaled file with  an explaination of why that's not used
[13:58] <jscurtu> ohh.... yea, it says #dev symlink
[13:58] <jscurtu> ./usr/lib/libkttsd.so
[13:59] <Czessi> Riddell: I'm sorry but I did my best. You know that the last 2 years I've ship the poster stand to akademy but this year is not enough time.
[13:59] <shtylman> Riddell: would we be ok with the upper left corner branding? ... I think it looks nice :)
[14:00] <seele> "Who is the best looking Kubuntu developer?"
[14:00] <seele> ^^ I dont remember being able to vote in that one :D
[14:00]  * shtylman is
[14:00] <shtylman> :)
[14:01] <Riddell> shtylman: how about grepping /etc/lsb-release and get the  DISTRIB_ID and  DISTRIB_RELEASE  then  s/Ubuntu/Kubuntu/
[14:01] <Riddell> shtylman: that way it'll do something sensible for derivatives
[14:01] <seele> Riddell: did you use changing the plasma panel as an example last night?
[14:01] <shtylman> Riddell: see.... this is why we keep you around :p
[14:01] <Riddell> seele: yes, although  I may have done entirely the wrong thing
[14:02] <seele> the wrong thing?
[14:02] <Riddell> seele: I changed the string but it was mentioned that there was another applet which it should be changed to?
[14:02] <Riddell> Czessi: yeah not your fault.  was linuxtag good?
[14:03] <neversfelde> "Who is the best looking Kubuntu developer?"  => This poll has no winner(s).
[14:03] <neversfelde> rofl
[14:03] <seele> Riddell: i don't think so. All we want to do is change the default widgets on the panel. There is only one panel correct?
[14:03]  * apachelogger demands reports from linuxtag
[14:03] <Riddell> seele: correct
[14:03] <apachelogger> neversfelde: all kubuntu devs are good looking :P
[14:04] <neversfelde> hehe
[14:05] <seele> apachelogger: on the internet everyone is good looking
[14:05] <Czessi> Riddell: yes. but shipit did't send us any cds. i'll blog about this evenig
[14:05] <claydoh> 'tis true, you all are extremely attractive
[14:05] <apachelogger> seele: good point :D
[14:07] <seele> hmm.. how many kubunteros will be at gcds? we should plan a kubuntu dinner one night
[14:07]  * apachelogger won't :(
[14:08] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-dev-tools/kde-l10n-orphans-parser
[14:08] <apachelogger> somehow I have an addition for long branch names :D
[14:09] <apachelogger> addiction even
[14:30] <nixternal> good morning kubunuts
[14:32] <shtylman> Riddell: have we gotten a logo for the kde menu in kubuntu style?
[14:33] <nixternal> shtylman: ya, check kde-look...that same person has also been on the mailing list abou tit
[14:33] <Riddell> shtylman: nothing has changed
[14:34] <e-jat> morning nixternal
[14:36] <dpm> hey apachelogger, thanks a lot for the feedback on Kubuntu translations and on the kde-l10n-orphans-parser !
[14:36] <apachelogger> yw :)
[14:37] <nixternal> you actually gave feedback and didn't chew someones head off?
[14:41] <DreadKnight> damn kubuntu... now freezes after i while i log in... except mouse
[14:41] <DreadKnight> fail
[14:53] <Riddell> tsk, wiki broken
[14:55] <Riddell> feels like treacle..
[14:56] <Riddell> seele: I'll be there
[14:56] <Riddell> kwwii: are you going?
[14:59] <seele> Riddell: you feel like a layered pudding?
[15:00] <seele> Riddell: i assume Nightrose will be there too so maybe it will be a small dinner
[15:00] <kwwii> Riddell: yes, I will be there from the 4th - 8th
[15:03] <Nightrose> seele: gcds? not going :(
[15:05] <seele> Nightrose: nooo
[15:05] <Nightrose> yea *sob*
[15:08] <apachelogger> hum
[15:08] <apachelogger> I just realized that I didn't eat anything yet
[15:11] <Riddell> nixternal: can you eye over and publish http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1872
[15:11] <nixternal> sure thing
[15:14] <nixternal> done
[15:30] <Riddell> agateau: you going to GCDS?
[15:30] <agateau> Riddell: yes
[15:32]  * rgreening wishes he could go
[15:33] <e-jat> anyone here having prob with display in karmic ?
[15:33] <nixternal> dang, I need someone to do my voting for me since I won't be there
[15:34] <Riddell> nixternal: I can proxy if need be
[15:35] <e-jat> cant enable the desktop effect .. it happen to me previously but after updating .. it fixed ..then after doing updating this eve .. its happened back :(
[15:35] <nixternal> Riddell: can I just email you the form?
[15:35] <Riddell> nixternal: dunno. sebas?
[15:35] <nixternal> I need to re-read that email because I think that was already answered
[15:37] <e-jat> where should i check ?
[15:40] <nixternal> Riddell: email is fine...I will fill that out and get it to you
[15:41] <seele> JontheEchidna: what's the status on the avatar in the kickoff menu? did you send a patch upstream? is it something we can patch in kubuntu in the meantime before they commit it?
[15:47] <mamr> hi, will there be kubuntu 4.3 rc1 packages in launchpad or should I help reporting bugs with the 4.3 beta?
[15:48] <Riddell> there will be packages once it has been released
[15:49] <mamr> cool
[15:49] <mamr> thanks for your answer
[15:57] <mgraesslin> would anyone mind to package Aurorae? http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Aurorae+Theme+Engine?content=107158
[15:57] <mgraesslin> I would try myself but RC packages aren't available yet and I don't have packaging experience
[15:58] <refic> yeah, that'd be cool
[16:13] <nixternal> Riddell: you've got mail :)
[16:23] <Riddell> anything I should include in the desktop team Kubuntu update?
[16:23] <nixternal> besides the face you all rock?
[16:24] <DreadKnight> holy shit, kubuntu is in a really bad shape today
[16:24] <DreadKnight> *sigh*
[16:26] <nixternal> are you using karmic?
[16:26] <nixternal> it is working just fine for me
[17:11] <apachelogger> really the rosetta UI needs to be redone
[17:24] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, Tonio_: plasma-widget-network-manager needs a removal request
[17:24] <apachelogger> renamed to -networkmanagement
[17:27] <seele> Riddell: did you sign up for the GCDS tourist trip?
[17:27] <seele> i guess i can just check the wikipage
[17:28] <nixternal> don't do any updates today unless you want nothing to work :)
[17:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: please check my latest mail on the translation thread
[17:30] <apachelogger> apparently kscreensaver/kxsconfig/hacks.pot gets imported, which should not happen
[17:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ^ same for you, I am not sure about qtcurve and how similar the kcm-gtk stuff is to what the gtk-qt-engine used :D
[17:37] <Tonio_> apachelogger: conflicts/replace/provides on the new upload should suffice right ?
[17:37] <apachelogger> nah
[17:37] <apachelogger> transitional package
[17:37] <apachelogger> Tonio_: + file a removal request with the archive admins
[17:38] <rgreening> nixternal: yeah, my audio puked today with updates.. think it was the udev
[17:38] <Tonio_> apachelogger: sure
[17:38] <Tonio_> apachelogger: hum, well I've never been able to understand why is a transitionnal package any better...
[17:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: have an explanation ?
[17:39] <apachelogger> Tonio_: because it transits ;-)
[17:39] <apachelogger> less to worry about for upgrades
[17:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: when used together conflicts, replaces and provides gives the same result
[17:39] <apachelogger> also, without it, apt-get will just whine about how -network-manager is provided by -networkmanagement
[17:39] <apachelogger> but not actualyl just go ahead and install it
[17:40] <apachelogger> Tonio_: no, it does not
[17:40] <Tonio_> apachelogger: with just provides it won't indeed, but afai, with the 3 together, it should...
[17:40] <Tonio_> apachelogger: anyway a transitionnal package is probably easier
[17:41] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but you're right it won't transit, it will remove your current package and install the new one
[17:41] <apachelogger> Tonio_: never read that in the policy, if it works with all three it might just be magic :D
[17:41] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and that can fail due to apt/dpkg options
[17:42]  * apachelogger continues beating the crap out of old launchpad templates
[17:42] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it would make sense for me that conflicts/replaces to that
[17:42] <Tonio_> in your cache
[17:45] <Quintasan> apachelogger: can you add members to Kubuntu Ninjas on LP?
[17:46] <apachelogger> Tonio_: pardon?
[17:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: yes
[17:47] <Quintasan> apachelogger: then, can you add me? I poked vorian to do this but he seems busy and told us to generate our keys to top secret ppa ;)
[17:49] <apachelogger> and who will attest that you are really supposed to become ninja? :P
[17:50] <Quintasan> hmm good one, I though being invited into bunKer is good enough :P
[17:50] <Riddell> seele: yes I signed up
[17:51] <seele> Riddell: it looks like it is 80% KDE people going too, hehe
[17:51] <Quintasan> apachelogger: also, kdewebdev update is in bzr
[17:56]  * Quintasan is going out to fix borked computer
[18:02] <vorian> Quintasan: added
[18:02]  * vorian waves
[18:04] <Quintasan> vorian: thanks :)
[18:05] <vorian> no problem
[18:06] <Riddell> _Groo_: what happened to liblastfm or whatever it was?
[18:08] <Tm_T> Riddell: benefits from removing Konqueror are mostly: some size in CD and one line in application menu, else?
[18:10] <Riddell> Tm_T: following the ubuntu philosophy of picking the one best app for the CD
[18:12] <Tm_T> Riddell: indeed, does Arora have all needed functionality to replace Konqueror as web browser?
[18:13] <Riddell> yes
[18:13] <Tm_T> hmmm, didn't notice any functionality to save passwords
[18:13] <Tm_T> have to doublecheck
[18:13] <Riddell> oh stuff like that is missing but we've spec'ed it and they should be working on it
[18:13] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's good then
[18:14] <Tm_T> Riddell: as long as Konqueror is seemlessly available, I see no issue on this then (:
[18:14] <Tm_T> seamlessly even
[18:16] <Riddell> but look at the tutorials day logs, as soon as we say "using arora" half the people go "yay" and half go "but will konq go too, I need my konq"
[18:16] <Riddell> it is silly to have duplicated functionality like that
[18:17] <claydoh> the downside is that those who think KDE is trying to kill Konq will have ammo
[18:17] <claydoh> and to some kubuntu=kde in some cases
[18:17] <Tm_T> claydoh: yup, that's why Konqueror have to be seamlessly available, almost as it has never been gone
[18:18] <claydoh> Tm_T:  :)
[18:18] <Tm_T> Riddell: several things missing indeed, well, if these issues are fullfilled, I'm fine with this default
[18:18] <Tm_T> it's not for _me_ anyway
[18:18]  * Tm_T doesn't use defaults on almost anything
[18:19] <claydoh> Riddell:  dis you speak of *why* we would change default browsers in the tutorials day?
[18:19] <Tm_T> arora has poor cookie handling functionality
[18:19]  * claydoh is starting to read the logs
[18:19] <Riddell> claydoh: rgreening did a bit
[18:19] <Riddell> from my side I just want to be able to read slashdot
[18:20] <Tm_T> Riddell: with Konqueror you can't ?
[18:20] <claydoh> Riddell: that is a good reason. other sites as well facebook used to not work
[18:21] <Tm_T> claydoh: Konqueror is bit dodgy with google services too
[18:21] <claydoh> amazon is another
[18:22] <Riddell> ebay never has
[18:22] <claydoh> ebay is ok for me
[18:22] <claydoh> but wasn't not too long ago
[18:31] <DreadKnight> Riddell: how will i know when to update to have sound fixed?
[18:31] <Riddell> I've no idea
[18:31] <DreadKnight> i'm more and more scared to update
[18:31] <DreadKnight> i should have learned my lesson months ago
[18:31] <DreadKnight> :\
[18:33] <Tm_T> claydoh: I prolly have less issues than most of users, as I'm riding on trunk
[18:34] <claydoh> Tm_T:  I am not :)
[18:34] <freinhard> anyone else with no wlan on karmic?
[18:42] <vorian> here's a few screenies of qwit http://machinecrusade.net/qwit/
[18:47] <apachelogger> Im parsing for my life
[19:48] <nixternal> how come choqok is so slow on updating twitter stuff? it takes a while for my twitter updates to come in
[19:49] <Tm_T> nixternal: perhaps it's because of twitter? it's fast here with identi.ca
[19:49] <nixternal> ya, same here
[19:49] <nixternal> it is weird
[19:49] <nixternal> it isn't twitter because the plasmoid is fast
[19:49] <Tm_T> hmmm
[19:49] <Tm_T> nixternal: these use same method?
[19:50] <nixternal> have no idea honestly, haven't looked into choqok
[19:50] <Tm_T> perhaps people in #choqok know better than me
[19:51] <nixternal> no, you should know better! :p
[19:51] <Tm_T> I refuse
[19:51] <neversfelde> there was a twitter bug for < 0.6.1
[19:53] <nixternal> I am using 0.6.1
[19:54] <Tm_T> I'm using current trunk, if that makes any difference
[19:54] <Tm_T> apparently 0.6-series that too
[20:27] <DreadKnight> will firefox 3.5 be default soon?
[20:27] <DreadKnight> my firefox is damn slow after latest updates.. at least i got sound back
[20:27] <DreadKnight> (um sry, firefox is ubuntu stuff)
[20:28] <DreadKnight> im not sure how to install firefox 3.5 without synaptic and all the gnome crap
[20:32] <neversfelde> DreadKnight: apt-get install --no-install-reommends
[20:32] <DreadKnight> neversfelde: thanks xD
[20:36] <Riddell> ooh Monika|K came back
[20:36] <Monika|K> back? Like 21 hours later? ^^
[20:36] <Monika|K> hi Jon :)
[20:58] <ghostcube> hi peoples
[20:58] <ghostcube> is there a roadmap for kde 4.3
[20:58] <ghostcube> :)
[20:58] <Riddell> techbase.kde.org has that
[20:59] <ghostcube> thx
[21:01] <ghostcube> hmmm but rc1 isnt out or so its a bit behind the map i think or am i wrong :)
[21:01] <ghostcube> oh my fault
[21:01] <ghostcube> nm
[21:02] <ghostcube> wrong line oo
[21:02]  * Sime is busting for RC1 to appear so that he can update the laptop before GCDS.
[21:03] <neversfelde> we are not packaging KDE 4.3 anymore, planned is a slow but steadily downgrade to KDE 2 :D
[21:03] <DreadKnight> both rekonq and arora are stupid.
[21:03] <DreadKnight> wish devs would stop being arrogant and work together
[21:04] <DreadKnight> this is my final conclusion after using them all day
[21:05] <Monika|K> neversfelde sounds like a good plan ;)
[21:05] <neversfelde> yes every 6 mont one step back
[21:05] <neversfelde> 4.2, 4.1, 4.0!, 3.5.10 and so on ;)
[21:06] <Monika|K> good, 2011 finally back to KDE 3.5 :)
[21:06] <neversfelde> hehe
[21:07] <pan_de> what's wrong with kde 3.5? i'm still using it on my desktop :)
[21:07] <claydoh> 2.2, man, 2.2 3.0 was a mess :)
[21:07] <claydoh> shouldn't have been released to the public  :)
[21:07] <Monika|K> that sounds awefully similar to 4.0
[21:08] <claydoh> back in the day, it was , a little
[21:08] <Monika|K> pan_de nothing is wrong with KDE 3.5. It's beautiful.
[21:08] <claydoh> but when it was new it was always called 'xp-like'
[21:09] <Ke> except kpdf, which can't rotate the view
[21:09]  * claydoh loves all kde
[21:10]  * claydoh still has hois Lycoris install disks, kde2.2 goodness as well as kde3 :)
[21:10] <Monika|K> xp-like? lol ... history repeats itself
[21:10] <claydoh> my point :)
[21:15] <d_ed> my boss still had kwin themed like KDE2
[21:15] <d_ed> it makes me cry inside each time I see it.
[21:23] <neversfelde> oh, the power battery in the tray. nice!
[21:28] <DreadKnight> Riddell: don't implement arora or rekonq by default!
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> my dad originally chose KDE because it looked the most like CDE, which he had used at his old job
[21:29] <JontheEchidna> He uses the keramik window decoration, which I find to be barftastic :x
[21:30] <Monika|K> hm, Keramik doesn't look so bad
[21:31] <blizzz> my dentist uses keramik, too
[21:31] <blizzz> i was a keramik fan in times of kde 3.
[21:31] <neversfelde> on no!
[21:32] <blizzz> now i am sculpture fan, too bad it does not work with tragedy theme :(
[21:33] <Monika|K> Redmond \0/
[21:33] <Monika|K> just kidding
[21:42] <d_ed> I like that in KDE4.3 there is still one called "Modern System" which was clearly written 10 years ago
[21:42] <Riddell> any of our new tutorialed helpers want to package Aurorae theme engine? http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Aurorae+Theme+Engine?content=107158
[21:43] <Riddell> don't all jump at once :)
[21:43] <d_ed> hold on, lemme look
[21:44] <d_ed> I can give it a go.
[21:44] <Riddell> yay
[21:45] <Riddell> first step is to compile it by handand check that it works
[21:45] <d_ed> already on it :-)
[21:45] <d_ed> boo!
[21:45] <Tm_T> shouldn't that be taken from svn? (;)
[21:45] <d_ed> requiring KDElibs4.2.92
[21:45] <d_ed> I'm on KDE 4.3 beta, which is at 4.2.90
[21:46] <Riddell> d_ed: are you using karmic or jaunty?
[21:46] <d_ed> Jaunty
[21:46] <sebas> nixternal: emailing a scanned proxy form is fine
[21:47] <d_ed> I have a karmic VM
[21:47] <d_ed> but I didn't think anything newer had been packaged
[21:47] <Riddell> d_ed: /msged
[21:59] <mgraesslin> Riddell and other packagers: Aurorae requires KDE 4.3 RC
[21:59] <mgraesslin> Tm_T: there are no changes in svn
[21:59] <Tm_T> mgraesslin: hmm, looks like it yes
[21:59] <Tm_T> atleast none yet
[22:00] <mgraesslin> I moved it today into kwin source directory and checked that there are no changes ;-)
[22:00] <mgraesslin> as starting from now I have to backport them to kde-look
[22:03] <Tm_T> hmm, how so?
[22:13] <mgraesslin> Tm_T: we will break the decoration API again in 4.4 to get window tabbing. So I won't be able to just dump svn into a tarball as soon as tabbing support hits trunk
[22:13] <Tm_T> mgraesslin: I undestand that (:
[22:14] <mgraesslin> well it's not so bad for us as for poor Compiz devs
[22:14] <mgraesslin> we currently destroy their kde-window-decorator with each new KDE release
[22:14] <Tm_T> heh
[22:15] <Tm_T> mgraesslin: you know when this tab support will enter the svn? as in, is there branch which will be merged already
[22:16] <mgraesslin> I don't know exactly how far it is, but Zarin (mentor) already started discussing design issues with Nuno
[22:16] <mgraesslin> so I hope it will happen soon that we have lots of time till release
[22:16] <mgraesslin> and Jorge sent us a patch to mailing list
[22:16] <Tm_T> good good
[22:17] <mgraesslin> and then merging window tiling and kwin is the über window manager :-)
[22:17] <Tm_T> mgraesslin: as I'm hanging on trunk, if there's some test needed, just poke me and I'll look if I can help
[22:17] <mgraesslin> yeah thanks - I'll remeber :-)
[22:18] <Tm_T> that's if you don't have enough folks complaining already (;)
[22:18] <mgraesslin> normaly quite fast
[22:18] <mgraesslin> people notice kwin hangups ;-)
[23:45] <lubyou> im looking for kwallet api docs. any pointers?
[23:45] <lubyou> erf wrong channel