[15:00] <noodles775> me (just to get in early)
[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu meeting.  who's here today?
[15:00] <rockstar> ni
[15:00] <adeuring> me
[15:00] <noodles775> yup
[15:00] <henninge> me
[15:00] <intellectronica> אני
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <deryck> me
[15:00] <gmb> me
[15:00] <barry> good one intellectronica :)
[15:01]  * gmb keeps needing to remind himself that it's not a problem with X when intellectronica has his keyboard in Hebrew mode.
[15:01] <cprov> me
[15:01] <danilos> me
[15:01] <mars> me
[15:01] <leonardr> me
[15:02] <bac> me
[15:02] <mars> barry, flacoste sends his apologies, he is celebrating Canada's birthday today
[15:02] <barry> mars: thanks
[15:03] <barry> allenap: ping
[15:03] <barry> bigjools: ping
[15:03] <BjornT> me
[15:03] <mars> barry, and gary is off sick
[15:03] <barry> BjornT: ping
[15:03] <barry> mars: k, thanks
[15:03] <allenap> me
[15:03] <barry> EdwinGrubbs: ping
[15:04] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:04] <barry> * Roll call
[15:04] <barry>  * Action items
[15:04] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:04] <barry>  * jtv: if code catches {{{Exception}}}, make sure {{{KeyboardInterrupt}}} and {{{SystemExit}}} are not swallowed.
[15:04] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[15:04] <barry>  * intellectronica to email list about higher JS branch limits
[15:05] <intellectronica> sorry, i didn't
[15:05] <barry> k
[15:05] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:05] <barry> first, let's welcome leonardr to our cabal!
[15:06] <leonardr> thanks, barry
[15:06] <rockstar> leonardr did great last week.  He'll be graduating in no time.
[15:06] <gmb> barry: And deryck
[15:06] <barry> gmb: you type faster than me :)
[15:06] <gmb> :)
[15:06] <barry> and deryck
[15:06] <jtv1> me
[15:06] <henninge> jtv1: you're not deryck
[15:07] <bigjools> me, sorry
[15:07] <barry> also, noodles775 you're graduated!  cprov has nothing but glowing reports.  congratulations
[15:07] <noodles775> great! Thanks barry!
[15:07] <cprov> noodles775: congrats!
[15:07] <danilos> woohoo, noodles775 congratulations!
[15:07] <henninge> noodles775: Glückwunsch!
[15:07] <noodles775> And thanks cprov for all the time you spend helping me :)
[15:08] <intellectronica> congratulations noodles775!
[15:08] <noodles775> Cheers everyone :)
[15:08] <bigjools> felicitats
[15:08] <jtv> congratulations noodles775
[15:08] <barry> noodles775: you can stay on thursdays/euros or switch to monday or friday if you want.  you're call and just ping me after the meeting if you want to rearrange your schedule
[15:09] <noodles775> barry: will do, thanks.
[15:09] <barry> does anybody have any other mentoring items today?
[15:09] <barry> k, moving on...
[15:09] <barry> [TOPIC]  * jtv: if code catches {{{Exception}}}, make sure {{{KeyboardInterrupt}}} and {{{SystemExit}}} are not swallowed.
[15:09] <MootBot> New Topic:   * jtv: if code catches {{{Exception}}}, make sure {{{KeyboardInterrupt}}} and {{{SystemExit}}} are not swallowed.
[15:10] <barry> jtv: this will go away in python 2.5 :)
[15:10] <jtv> Hmm, that wiki markup doesn't look half as good on irc
[15:10] <jtv> barry: are we there yet?  :-)
[15:10]  * barry looks to flacoste and gary... damn!
[15:10] <mars> jtv, barry, why not add a lint tool warning for "catch Exception"?
[15:11] <jtv> There is one, actually.  But it's not clear what it wants you to do.
[15:11] <mars> jtv, ah, fix the string it spits back at you?
[15:11] <jtv> But yes, corollary: once we've upgraded, maybe that should go away :-)
[15:11] <barry> does anybody not know what we're talking about here?
[15:11] <mars> saying "This is bad" is one thing, saying "This is bad, ensure foobar" is another
[15:11] <jtv> mars: right, it just notes that you're catching Exception.  Which isn't the surprising part.
[15:11] <mars> :)
[15:12] <intellectronica> is there an easy, or at least obvious, way to do that?
[15:12] <intellectronica> or should you simply never catch Exception?
[15:12] <barry> intellectronica: until py2.5, you need separate except (KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit) clause
[15:12] <barry> intellectronica: catching Exception is way better than a bare except (usually)
[15:13] <barry> intellectronica: except that in py2.4, "except Exception" catches KI and SE exceptions too
[15:13] <barry> in 2.5 the exception hierarchy was rearranged so that KI and SE are siblings of Exception, not children
[15:13] <barry> BaseException is the mother of all exceptions, and it rarely needs to be caught
[15:13] <intellectronica> so, except KI: raise \n except SE: raise \n except Exception: stuff... ?
[15:14] <barry> intellectronica: yep, or except (KI, SE): raise
[15:14] <bigjools> can we just upgrade Python already ...
[15:14] <barry> bigjools: yes please
[15:14] <sinzui> We need more eggs I think
[15:14] <jtv> bigjools: can you have it ready by Monday?
[15:14] <adeuring> i think an "except Exception" is in most cases bad as well:, unless you log an OOPS
[15:14] <bigjools> jtv: I'll get my wife to do it
[15:14] <gmb> adeuring: +1
[15:15]  * barry hopes we do it before the open source release
[15:15] <cprov> adeuring: right, I think that's the rule.
[15:15] <rockstar> adeuring, +1
[15:15] <jtv> it's right, but we have a few scripts that don't do that.
[15:15] <barry> adeuring: certainly, if you as a reviewer see "except Exception" or <gasp> bare-except, you should ask lots of questions
[15:16] <adeuring> barry: right; but it can't hurt to update the wiki page ;)
[15:16] <jtv> barry: right, that is the real point here.
[15:17] <barry> adeuring: sure.  would you or jtv like to take that action?
[15:17] <adeuring> barry: I'll do it
[15:17] <barry> adeuring: thanks
[15:17]  * jtv bows to adeuring who beat him to the
[15:17] <jtv> *ow!
[15:17] <barry> [ACTION] adeuring to update wiki to describe 'except Exception'
[15:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  adeuring to update wiki to describe 'except Exception'
[15:18] <barry> adeuring: please also do include info on KI and SE, and that py2.5 changes things
[15:18] <barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
[15:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
[15:18] <adeuring> barry: I'm already wrote a note about that ;)
[15:18] <barry> that's everything on the agenda, does anybody have any other topics today?
[15:18] <barry> adeuring: thanks :)
[15:19] <barry> 5
[15:19] <barry> 4
[15:20] <mars> barry, me
[15:20] <barry> mars: go ahead
[15:20] <mars> so yesterday we had an issue with unescaped HTML data appearing in the browser
[15:21] <mars> the fix was to remove a "structure foo" statement from the TAL template
[15:21] <mars> given that the TAL "structure" statment is potentially dangerous, should it raise a lint warning?
[15:22] <intellectronica> mars:  no, it's used legitimately way too often
[15:22] <danilos> intellectronica: +1
[15:22] <bac> intellectronica: +1
[15:22] <mars> ok
[15:22] <mars> barry, that's all then :)
[15:22] <barry> mars: thanks
[15:22] <barry> anything else guys?
[15:23] <barry> 5
[15:23] <jtv> oh come on already, we've been through that!
[15:23] <barry> 4
[15:23] <barry> 3
[15:23] <barry> 2
[15:23] <barry> 1
[15:23] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:23] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:23.
[15:23] <jtv> thanks barry :)
[15:23] <barry> thanks everythone
[15:23] <intellectronica> cheers barry
[23:29] <barry> #startmeeting
[23:29] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:29. The chair is barry.
[23:29] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[23:29] <barry> thumper, mwhudson hi
[23:30] <thumper> hi
[23:31] <barry> mwhudson: wanted to speed through today's meeting, so shall we start with a recap of ameu?
[23:31] <barry> noodle graduates, deryck and leonardr are new mentats
[23:32] <thumper> barry: yep, I ready the backlog :)
[23:32] <barry> thumper: ah cool.  i don't need to explain "except Exception" then :)
[23:32] <thumper> not to me
[23:32] <barry> i'm sure not to mwhudson either
[23:33] <barry> other than that. i have nothing on my list.  do you or mwhudson have anything?
[23:33] <thumper> one thing
[23:33] <thumper> the other day stub landed a method to help printing unicode in doctests
[23:33]  * thumper looks for the method
[23:34] <thumper> hmm...
[23:34] <thumper> I recall a commit flying past, but I can't see it in pages.py
[23:35] <barry> it rings a vague memory
[23:35]  * thumper checks loggerhead
[23:36] <mwhudson> hi oops sorry
[23:36] <thumper> hmm, can't find it right now
[23:36] <mwhudson> barry: what was it about except Exception?
[23:37] <mwhudson> oh right
[23:37]  * mwhudson read enough backscroll
[23:37] <thumper> r8714
[23:37] <barry> mwhudson: cool
[23:37] <thumper> added to doctest but not pages
[23:38] <barry> that always drives me crazy that they have different globs
[23:38] <thumper> a bug should be filed :)
[23:39] <thumper> also it needs to move to lp.testing
[23:39] <barry> thumper: jfdi man!
[23:39] <mwhudson> barry: i heard a rumour that all javascript changes are supposed to be QAed before landing or something
[23:39] <mwhudson> barry: do you know anything about that?
[23:40] <barry> mwhudson: we talked about that on the list a few weeks ago, but i don't know that anybody has actually done that
[23:40] <mwhudson> ok
[23:41] <mwhudson> over this side of the world it sometimes seems like decisions on process get made but that noone tells us :)
[23:41] <barry> mwhudson: we only do that when we don't follow those decisions ourselves :)
[23:42] <barry> but yeah, i hear ya.  hopefully these meetings can help that
[23:42] <barry> anything else guys?
[23:43] <thumper> nope
[23:43] <mwhudson> barry: i guess a single place on the wiki to go and look this sort of thing up would be good
[23:43] <mwhudson> barry: maybe there is one already!
[23:43] <mwhudson> barry: nothing else
[23:44] <barry> mwhudson: agreed!  it should be here if anywhere: https://dev.launchpad.net/Reviews
[23:44] <barry> cool.  thanks guys
[23:44] <barry> #endmeeting
[23:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:44.
[23:44]  * mwhudson subscribes
[23:44] <mwhudson> You are not allowed to perform this action.
[23:46] <thumper> mwhudson: heh
[23:46]  * mwhudson subscribes the other way
[23:47]  * thumper subscribes too