TheMusoHey rickspencer3, robert_ancell.00:02
robert_ancellTheMuso, hi00:02
rickspencer3robert_ancell: TheMuso: hi guyses00:03
TheMusoHey rickspencer3.00:04
* awe waves00:04
rickspencer3hi awe00:04
rickspencer3I haven't had a chance to copy over any notes from this morning00:05
rickspencer3I don't actually think it will take to long for us to run through these00:06
rickspencer3ok, first, if you don't have travel arranged for Dublin, please arrange it asap, prices are going up quickly00:06
rickspencer3A bunch of us are going to Desktop Summit00:07
TheMusoIts just about arranged on my part, since I'm travelling with StevenK.00:07
rickspencer3seb128, Riddell, robert_ancell, me, kenvandine00:07
rickspencer3TheMuso: great00:07
robert_ancellI'm battling the travel agent to finally send me an eticket00:08
rickspencer3robert_ancell: do you need help?00:08
robert_ancellrickspencer3, I've got the route chosen, I just send a reminder email today to confirm that it is booked00:08
rickspencer3I'll be traveling starting tomorrow, so let randa know if you have problems getting your travel arrangements closed00:09
rickspencer3so then there was the partner update00:10
rickspencer3essentially U1 file synching is still almost in universe again00:10
rickspencer3I guess there was a big round of reviews on the packaging, and this sent dobey back to relayout the bzr branches and such00:10
rickspencer3also, DXE hasn't quite published their plan for Karmic ...00:11
rickspencer3but they are doing a new FUSA to be compatible with new gdm00:11
robert_ancellIs that FUSA going upstream?00:12
rickspencer3so kenvandine is in charge of getting gdm-new and the new Fusa into the archive soon, and smoothley00:12
* TheMuso notes his activity report is not yet on that pagre.00:12
rickspencer3robert_ancell: well, it's open source, so if they want it, however, I think it's kind of a replacement, so the intention was not to be a new upstream FUSA (so far as I can tell)00:12
rickspencer3TheMuso: right, I haven't copied those over yet, I'll get to it before I leave, don't worry00:13
robert_ancellrickspencer3, I ask because I did some work on the fusa package and it is full of Ubuntu patches and doesn't seem to be worked on upstream.  So it would be good if this can replace the existing upstream project00:13
* TheMuso is not worried.00:13
rickspencer3robert_ancell: ok, please bring that up with seb12800:14
robert_ancellwill do00:14
rickspencer3ACTION: robert_ancell to discuss upstream of DXE FUSA applet wtih seb128 and kenvandine00:14
rickspencer3Kubuntu ...00:14
rickspencer3first, they have a bootable usb drive making tool now, so they can make netbook images00:15
rickspencer3second, those images aren't actually tweaked for netbooks yet, but the package of netbook settings is created, it just needs the settings00:15
rickspencer3so your netbook can be Kubutulicious in a matter of a couple of weeks, I'm guessing00:16
rickspencer3third, their was some discussion regarding Kubuntu and web browsers00:16
rickspencer3Arora is the new KDE default browser, but they can't just remove conqi because they are afraid of backlash and such00:17
TheMusoI assume that uses webkit.00:17
rickspencer3TheMuso: yes, I believe Arora does00:17
rickspencer3but not Konqueror00:18
rickspencer3so in terms of x, they are still ahead on merges, and KMS is on by default, but not causing a big spike in bugs00:18
TheMusoYeah I know konq didn't.00:18
rickspencer3there are some x freezes associated with suspend/resume, though00:19
* TheMuso should test his hardware to be sure all is ok.00:19
rickspencer3it looks like translations are moving along ok00:20
rickspencer3then we had a big discussion about PPAs versus Archives00:21
rickspencer3essentially, there has been a tendency lately to put new stuff into PPAs instead of into Karmic universe00:21
rickspencer3this has caused some unpredictability around scheduling ... as it is less clear when something has "landed", and00:21
RiddellI may reconsider the konqueror issue, depends on the reaction from upstream on changing browser, there's a definate appetite for moving to something newer now00:22
rickspencer3it also means that we are all developing on difference configurations00:22
rickspencer3hi Riddell!00:22
rickspencer3Do you guys have anything in PPAs that are bound for universe or main?00:22
rickspencer3or know of anything?00:22
TheMusoWell pulse may be tested in a PPA, but it may just go straight to karmic.00:23
rickspencer3TheMuso: please discuss with pitti when he wakes up00:24
rickspencer3in essence, we are preferring to go strait to Karmic00:24
TheMusorickspencer3: He already asked me about it.00:24
TheMusoWell it requires yet another dependency in main before it can go in.00:24
TheMusoSO short term, it will be PPA, till we get the new dependency into main.00:25
RiddellKDE 4.3 RC 1 is in PPA and being uploaded to main00:25
rickspencer3I see00:25
rickspencer3TheMuso: please focus on moving it into main as fast as reasonably possible00:25
rickspencer3Riddell: ok00:25
TheMusorickspencer3: I will, gotta get it packaged first.00:26
rickspencer3TheMuso: understood00:26
rickspencer3The point is that we should strive to not things languish in PPAs, the sooner they get into archives the better00:26
rickspencer3so we shouldn't feel a false sense of security if something is in a PPA00:27
rickspencer3(this is a general point, not directed specifically at Pulse Audio)00:27
rickspencer3speaking of PPAs - gdm-new00:27
* TheMuso nods.00:27
rickspencer3if you can, please test it from the desktop team ppa00:27
rickspencer3similarly, please set up asac's mozilla security updates ppa so those can be tested as well when they are available00:28
rickspencer3here's a link to the mozilla ppa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa00:29
rickspencer3do you guys have any agenda items?00:29
aweNo, I do want to follow up with TheMuso afterwards re: my review of his spec...00:30
rickspencer3thanks guyses!00:30
TheMusoawe: Ok, sounds good. As I said, I don't understand the volume scaling stuff at all.00:32
aweTheMuso: I have a fair large amount of comments for you... should I add email them to you, or add them to the blueprint whiteboard?00:32
aweTheMuso: I think from what I heard at UDS, the volume scaling would be solved by using the Pulse volume control and leaving the ALSA volume fixed00:33
aweat least that's what I thought I heard Daniel say00:33
TheMusoawe: Right, add them to the whiteboard is probably the best, so then everyone else like dtchen then sees them.00:33
aweOne thing's that's confusing is whether I comment on the Blueprint, the Specification or both?00:34
TheMusoawe: Thanks00:34
TheMusoWell I wasn't the one who proposed the blueprint/spec for karmic, so I don't know.00:35
TheMusoTO me, audio is one of those things that requires ongoing maintenance, and when things are made to work upstream, we get them to work in Ubuntu.00:35
TheMusoi.e doesn't really require a spec.00:35
TheMusobut I'll go with what has been asked for. *sighs*00:36
aweI'll just go ahead and add to the whiteboard as you suggested...00:38
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittiGood morning07:18
robert_ancellhey pitti.  Do you know the status of GNOME 3 in Ubuntu?07:37
pittirobert_ancell: seb and a few others are packaging gnome-shell and zeitgeist07:40
robert_ancellpitti, are there packages available?07:40
pittirobert_ancell: as for the library deprecation, seb works on some smaller issues (droppling libglade, etc.), there were some 2 uploads for this07:40
pittirobert_ancell: no idea, I'm afraid; zeitgeist does have pacakges somewhere07:40
robert_ancellpitti, also, do you remember a gnome-scan discussion at UDS? What was the outcome/07:41
pittirobert_ancell: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnomescan07:42
pittirobert_ancell: this says to switch07:42
pittirobert_ancell: however, I hope that current upstream versions are better than what we have in karmic07:43
pittithe latter is absolutely useless07:43
robert_ancellpitti, I just bought a scanner today and xsane is not great07:43
pittirobert_ancell: I know, but try gnome-scan07:44
pittiyou can't even get the job done with it :)07:44
pittirobert_ancell: gscan2pdf is pretty good, but it was deemed too complex07:44
robert_ancellpitti, I just tried it then and it does the scan but doesn't show anything :(07:44
pittiwell, it has the workflow the wrong way around, no possibility to rotate or fix the brightness/gamma, etc.07:44
robert_ancellpitti, yes, gscan2pdf does seem to work the best for me08:02
pittihey seb12808:12
seb128hey pitti!08:12
ajmitchhi seb12808:12
seb128hi ajmitch, it has been a while, how are you?08:12
ajmitchI'm good :)08:13
* ajmitch has been around a bit lately :)08:13
seb128yeah I noticed some uploads from you08:13
ajmitchI made some spare time :)08:13
pittihey ajmitch08:14
* seb128 wonders why pitti apologized on the list08:16
seb128I start having enough of those mono wars there, they discussed the topic enough by now you could think08:17
pittiright, and I sort of threw the gauntlet again08:17
pitti"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, then beat you with experience."08:17
pitti(completely ramdon quote which just came to my mind)08:18
pittirandom, too08:18
seb128I like it ;-)08:18
* ajmitch understands your frustration :)08:18
seb128I just ignore those guys nowadays08:18
seb128especially the ones saying "I'm switching distro if you don't do what I want"08:18
ajmitchthey sometimes provide amusement08:18
ajmitchcurrent set of karmic packages are safe to run at the moment, aren't they?08:19
TheMusoseb128: Hi again. Just a heads up, if you use an NVIDIA card with X, the nvidia-180 drivers don't seem to build against 2.6.31 currently, so you may have to hold off your sound test with 2.6.31 if you use NVIDIA, at least till the dkms package is fixed.08:19
pittiajmitch: really current current, with gdm fixed, yes08:19
* ajmitch tends to upgrade by picking & choosing in synaptic, and saw the gdm issues yesterday08:19
* TheMuso found that out today when wanting to test 2.6.31 with something else.08:20
seb128TheMuso, I'm using an intel card and sounds seem to be back after daily upgrades so maybe it was some other issues in the udev changes or something or resetting the pulseaudio, etc config made it work not sure08:20
mvohey ajmitch, nice to see you08:21
TheMusoseb128: ok no problem then, good to hear you're back up and running with sound.08:22
TheMuso...and on that note...08:22
* TheMuso is outa here.08:22
ajmitchhi mvo08:22
pittiTheMuso: sleep well08:23
pittiseb128: \o/08:23
seb128bye TheMuso08:24
* pitti tosses some ♩ ♪ ♫ to seb12808:24
seb128pitti, ;-)08:24
* ajmitch shouldn't get sucked into reading debian-devel 'discussions'08:24
seb128what are they discussing now?08:26
ajmitchia32-apt-get, or how not to do multiarch08:26
seb128I'm not reading debian-devel nowadays08:26
ajmitchprobably wise08:26
ajmitchI was bored today & wondered what they were talking about in #debian-devel08:27
pittiseb128: btw, didn't MacSlow send a g-p-m patch recently? I thought you wanted to sponsor it?08:37
seb128is synaptic crashing for other people too in karmic when using the menu item to start it?08:37
seb128pitti, not sure, I don't do gpm, I sponsored notify-osd and g-s-d08:37
pittiah, ok08:37
seb128I'm not subscribed to gpm bugs08:37
pittiwill get it out from my mail archive then08:37
pittiseb128: btw, does new gdm still start for you?08:38
seb128it shouldn't?08:38
pittiseb128: it fails with "not the default WM" for me08:38
pitti$ cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager08:38
pittibut the init script compares that to "/usr/sbin/gdm-binary"08:38
seb128yeah I changed that in my upload yesterday08:38
pittiI don't know how it was before this morning's upgrade, I'm afraid08:38
seb128I hate this thing08:38
pitti(it worked until yesterday)08:39
seb128because of the08:39
seb128SSD_ARG="--exec $DAEMON"08:39
seb128"restart" didn''t work otherwise08:39
robert_ancellhi seb12808:39
seb128hey robert_ancell08:39
seb128robert_ancell, had a good day today?08:40
seb128robert_ancell, when do you fly to desktop summit?08:40
robert_ancellseb128, administration day today.  I fly out tomorrow so I've bought a printer/scanner and did my paperwork I've been putting off. Wrote my GUADEC lightning talk too08:41
seb128what will you talk about?08:41
robert_ancell"practical part-time refactoring".  It's describes what I think is a good way to get into GNOME based on my experiences in gcalctool;08:43
mvoseb128: is synaptic crashing or gksu?08:44
didrocksgood morning everyone o/08:44
seb128mvo, dunno, it doesn't open08:44
mvoseb128: could you please run "gksu id" in a term?08:45
seb128gksu synaptic in a g-t works correctly08:45
robert_ancellHey pitti, can you look at bug 195737 and bug 221698 again?  They both have LP branches - should I add more information to upload requests than that?08:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 195737 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "Make window open animation the same as close animation (glide 2)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19573708:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221698 in compiz "Cannot resize window taller than screen (inconsistent with metacity)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22169808:45
seb128but not from gnome-panel apparently08:45
mvoseb128: how strange, anything in .xsession-errors ?08:45
seb128mvo, "sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo" in .xsession-errors08:45
pittirobert_ancell: ah, thanks for marking that other one as a dup; clear enough now08:46
seb128mvo, oh now it breaks in a g-t too08:47
seb128$ gksu synaptic08:47
pittirobert_ancell: fine for me now08:47
seb128sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo08:47
seb128$ gksu id08:47
seb128sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo08:47
seb128mvo, ^ is gksu bog08:47
mvoseb128: I thought so :)08:47
robert_ancellpitti, should I merge the two changes in BZR into one release?08:47
mvoseb128: let me have a look08:47
pittirobert_ancell: how else did you do it?08:47
seb128mvo, I get the issue on my laptop since yesterday and on my desktop now08:48
robert_ancellpitti, there's two UNRELEASED entries in lp:~compiz/compiz/ubuntu08:48
pittirobert_ancell: right, please merge them into one08:48
mvoseb128: thanks, I can reproduce it now here08:50
robert_ancellpitti, done08:50
robert_ancellseb128, do you know if the DXE fusa work is going to be the upstream fusa solution? i.e. replacing the existing fusa releases?08:51
seb128robert_ancell, upstream has fusa in gdm now but dxteam wrote a new applet apparently rather than changing this one08:52
robert_ancellseb128, So the one in http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/fast-user-switch-applet/ is deprecated?08:53
ajmitchNIH, or because the other one would have needed too much work?08:53
seb128robert_ancell, yes08:53
mvoseb128: yeah, it looks like gksu has changed the way it calls sudo in a strange way08:53
* mvo wonders if its releated to the gtkbuilder patch from seb128 ;)08:54
* seb128 slaps mvo08:55
* mvo hides08:55
didrocksis there a kind archive admin to accept new libgirepository1 binary package, part of gobject-introspection? :)08:55
seb128didrocks, doing08:55
didrocksbtw, is there a page listing all new binary built and waiting for acceptance (I saw that: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gobject-introspection/0.6.3-0ubuntu1/+build/1100440)08:55
didrocksthanks seb128 ;)08:55
robert_ancellseb128, are there any gnome-shell .debs around?08:57
seb128robert_ancell, gnagnagna08:57
robert_ancellseb128, :P I have all day to think up questions for you08:57
seb128robert_ancell, working on it, cf didrocks gobject-introspection request ;-)08:57
hyperairooh gnome shell =O08:57
seb128I did upload gjs to the ubuntu-desktop ppa yesterday08:58
seb128ie we are on it but there is a chain of depends to tackle08:58
seb128want to do some of the work? ;-)08:58
ajmitchdidrocks: something like launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue ?08:58
seb128didrocks, no, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue has the list of binaries08:58
didrocksso, when libgirepository1 will be accepted, gir-repository will be able to build, and so clutter 0.9.4 will be built to \o/08:58
didrocksthen, mutter is for me :)08:58
robert_ancellseb128, I would say yes but I'm about to go travelling.  I can have a look if I've got some spare time in GUADEC08:58
didrocksseb128, ajmitch: ok, it's packages with NEW state, right? (so, New doesn't corresponds to "new uploads"08:59
pittididrocks: need some NEWing?08:59
seb128robert_ancell, I said rick I would have it in a ppa before GUADEC so thanks08:59
seb128pitti, I'm on it08:59
didrockspitti: seb128 is on it :)08:59
ajmitchyeah, NEW binaries/source08:59
seb128didrocks, newed to universe09:00
didrocksok, thanks. didn't notice the icon difference at first glance :)09:00
didrocksthanks seb128. Let's wait for the toolchain to be built so.09:00
seb128didrocks, you have local builds no? ;-)09:01
ajmitchthat reminds me, I have a critical sync bug to get filed :)09:01
* seb128 learnt a new trick09:02
seb128dput ppa:...09:02
didrocksseb128: yes, I built them yesterday with that. But I'm currently at work and will be busy this morning ;)09:02
seb128didrocks, ok09:02
pittiseb128: you mean there's a way to do that without adding all of them to ~/.dputrc?09:02
pitti.dput.cf, rather09:02
seb128pitti, yes, "dput ppa:user/ppa_name .changes"09:02
seb128pitti, doesn't require any dput config09:03
pittifor your favourite one it's still a bit too verbose, but good to know09:03
didrocksok. I know what I will test this evening :)09:03
seb128pitti, ie https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa the first line09:03
ajmitchseb128: it works for team PPAs?09:03
* pitti grrrs at heisenbugs09:03
seb128ajmitch, yes09:03
pittidoes anyone else have http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585228 ?09:04
ubottuGnome bug 585228 in gnome-power-manager "immediately suspends on startup when lid is closed" [Major,Unconfirmed]09:04
pittias soon as I start gnome-power-manager --verbose in the foreground, it doesn't happen any more09:04
* ajmitch *still* hasn't upgraded his laptop from hardy :)09:04
seb128my laptop never suspended on lid close, is that a setting to configure?09:04
pittiseb128: it's the current g-p-m default09:04
seb128not for me09:04
pittiand what's annoying is that it happens in gdm09:04
pittiah, it coudl be due to dk-power d-bus activation09:05
seb128I close the lid all the team when I move between rooms09:05
seb128team -> time09:05
pittiseb128: I keep it closed when docked09:05
seb128and my laptop just lock screen09:05
seb128when docked I just suspend using the GNOME menu entry09:05
pittiseb128: that should be local gconf, though09:06
pittisince gdm has its own, it should happen there09:06
pittiI set it to "ignore" lid events on AC as well for my account09:06
seb128let me boot my laptop and try09:06
pittiseb128: nevermind, I found it09:06
pittiit's not a heisenbug, it's devkit-power sending a "lid event" when it's activated09:06
pittieven if the lid doesn't change09:07
seb128iz kit bog09:07
pittiwell, that, or g-p-m bug09:07
pittibut at least --verbose output says the right thing now09:07
seb128iz pitti bug in any case ;-)09:07
pittiseb128: right, I just wondered if I was going mad09:07
robert_ancellbye all09:13
didrocksseb128: I don't remember if I have to retry when the status is "Dependency wait" or just wait for a cron09:29
seb128didrocks, just wait09:31
seb128didrocks, the publisher take a while, those should be available in 15 minutes or so09:33
seb128pitti, wb09:34
pittimy server is offline, seems that the hosting DC lost the interweb tube09:34
seb128that's twice in a week now09:35
pittilast time they did some hardware maintenance09:35
seb128the ppa publishing is fast nowadays09:36
seb128pitti, ok, the gdm default manager things is fixed in the ppa now09:36
pittiseb128: rock, thanks09:36
seb128binaries are published and available by normal apt upgrade09:36
pittiseb128: publishing> indeed, it's a breeze09:36
seb128there is another annoying upgrade issue there09:37
seb128the fusa applet doesn't work after upgrade09:38
didrocksseb128: I remembered that when I tried KDM, fusa applet was crashing when launching GNOME09:42
chrisccoulsondidrocks - thats a known issue. quite a few users complain about that09:43
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
seb128didrocks, gir built now10:22
seb128lut huats10:31
huatshello seb128 !10:34
huatshow are you ?10:35
seb128huats, good, and you?10:37
huatsgood too !10:38
seb128the weather is getting too warm for my taste though10:38
huatsseb128: please don't mention the weather10:38
huatsi can't stand the warm :)10:38
huats(well that kind of warm...)10:38
huatsand I am not going to the GUADEC... imagine what you are about to live :P10:39
seb128should be fine10:39
seb128grand canary is an island the forecast says 24°C with some wind there10:39
seb128it's cooler than the continual weather there10:40
huatsand theer is the sea... which helps A LOT !10:42
seb128and ice cream too in case it's hot ;-)10:43
dpmpitti: we're having a translations meeting tomorrow, and I'd like to tell translators what's currently happening around translations. I've been following bug #123020 and I think this would be a good thing to comment. Can I explain them the following:11:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 123020 in soyuz "support shipping verbatim files in the exported tarballs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12302011:12
dpm1) There's work in progress in getting the GNOME help files in language packs11:12
dpm2) This will _probably_ be done for Karmic11:12
dpm3) At this point this will only be a LiveCD space-saving feature, since the xml to PO (import) and PO to xml (langpack export) conversion will still have to be done manually.11:12
pittidpm: hi11:13
pittidpm: s/LiveCD/CD/ (applies to alternate, too), otherwise correct11:14
pittidpm: we will only copy the verbatim bits, no xml <-> po conversion for now11:14
pittithat requires proper rosetta support11:14
pittibrb, rebooting11:15
dpmpitti: hi :), thanks11:15
dpmpitti: ok, yes, that's what I meant with point 3), I should have probably formulated it better. I'll add the item to the agenda, then11:17
seb128doh, even pitti start using quilt now11:18
hyperairquilt > *11:22
mvo*grumpf* I I finally found the problem with gksu, how anoying11:22
seb128mvo, you rock!11:23
seb128mvo, tell me it's not the gtkbuilder changes ;-)11:23
pittiseb128: well, just so that Michael Biebl doesn't kill me after my first commits to pkg-utopia :)11:23
pittiseb128: but compared to the pain of git, quilt is just worth a shallow "oh"11:23
seb128btw speaking about git how do you add a file and make it been listed in git diff too?11:24
mvoseb128: the new forkpty() behaviour and sudo tty_tickets do not work togetether11:24
pittiI shouldn't have to use patches in the first place11:24
seb128git add newfile; git diff lists nothing11:24
pittibut with git-buildpackage at least there seems to be no way to cherrypick patches from trunk properly11:24
pittiseb128: ah11:24
pittiseb128: "git diff" does not what you think11:24
crevettegit diff HEAD^ ?11:24
pittiit shows the diff between the current index and the source11:24
pitticrevette: oh, so that's it?11:24
* crevette is always lost with git diff11:25
pittiI always use "git commit -v" and cancel11:25
crevettepitti, I admit I didn't look deeply in the doc, as the man page is quite complicated, (you must know a lot of details of git inner to understand it)11:26
hyperairgit diff and git diff --cached11:26
hyperairgit diff shows the difference between your working tree and the index, git diff --cached shows the difference between HEAD and the index11:26
seb128hyperair, can I have both in the same command?11:26
pitticrevette: hah, tell me about it11:26
hyperairseb128: git diff HEAD11:26
hyperairi think11:27
crevettegit is teh pain11:27
seb128git is really the suck to use11:27
seb128it's a shame that GNOME picked this one11:27
hyperairbetter than bzr =p11:27
pittiI still didn't learn (and don't want to) all those concepts of heads, index, origins, checkouts, intra-tree branches, and how the heck to get a branch ssh'ed over there (i. e. bzr push)11:27
seb128bzr add && bzr diff does what you expect though11:27
hyperairbecause bzr doesn't have a staging area11:27
pittithe fun thing is that even the folks who have used git for a long time don't know how to get git push working :)11:28
seb128I don't care about a staging area11:28
crevettepitti, I just had a basic usage as I wrote some patch for GNOME, but nothing fancu11:28
pittihyperair: bzr shelve11:28
seb128I want to checkout, do changes and see my changes11:28
hyperairpitti: isn't that the same as git stash?11:28
pittianyway, we had enough of them11:28
pitti(flamewars, I mean)11:28
pittihyperair: quite possibly11:28
hyperairyeah so it's not the staging area after all =\11:28
pittibut the index concept is so utterly confusing, and not really necessary either11:29
seb128seems git users are rather interested in how the tool can do tricky things than in getting work done easily11:29
hyperairi don't like that bzr has so goddamn many repository formats, all of which are incompatible with one another11:29
crevettegit stash is for on-going patch that break a rebase from I understood11:29
hyperairi've had a few repositories turn unmergeable because of that11:29
hyperairstupid bzr11:29
hyperaircrevette: no, git stash is to stash away your changes and return to a clean tree to do something else.11:29
crevettegit stash put your change is a temporary place, and you can re-apply with a git pop11:29
hyperairgit stash apply11:30
didrocksso as bzr shelve11:30
hyperairbzr doesn't have the staging area11:31
hyperaireither way, i don't really use it much. i commit with git ci -av11:31
seb128I'm not sure what a staging area is and why I would want one11:32
pittihyperair: no staging area> that's a feature :)11:32
seb128I usually checkout, commit commit commit, push somewhere for review11:32
hyperairyou can pretty much do that with git too11:32
hyperairi like how git repositories are pretty much standardized11:32
seb128what the vcs does is implementation details I don't want to care about11:32
pittihyperair: (honest question) do you know how to push a branch to my server, in a way that works?11:32
hyperairinstead of bzr godknows what knit rich root poor root whatever formats11:33
hyperairpitti: push a bzr branch or a git branch?11:33
pittihyperair: the best answer for that so far was "git prune; git gc; rsync -r .git myserver:public_html/git/stuff"11:33
seb128hyperair, git, bzr is easy, bzr push location ;-)11:33
pittihyperair: with git (with bzr, it's just "bzr push bzr+ssh://myserver/dir")11:33
pittihyperair: but with that prune/gc/rsync, I still can't push to that branch again11:33
hyperairpitti: i think you need to initialize a bare repository first, even in the case of bzr.11:33
pittihyperair: bare repo> no, tried that, doesn't work11:34
hyperairpitti: prune and gc are just to reduce what you need to transfer11:34
pittihyperair: (and that's not necessary with bzr; it just works)11:34
hyperairyeah, it just transfers evry damn thing11:34
pittianyway, I read docs and tried several recipes after 1.5 hours, then I just gave up and used the usual patch/git add/git commit pain11:34
pittiand mailed patches around11:35
LaneyPidgin 2.5.811:35
hyperairpitti: chances are you want to push more than once, so you just add the remote first: git remote add origin myserver:public_html/git/stuff.git, then you do git push --all origin11:35
Laney(libpurple 2.5.8)11:35
hyperairpitti: the pain is only when you don't know how to use it. the learning curve is steep as hell, but once you understand it, it's hard to look back.11:36
pittihyperair: right, that's what I meant; it's a tool which is written for people who want to learn it inside out, not for the casual developer who wants to work on source :(11:36
pittiinstead of git11:36
seb128I still not get why people fancy a tool hard to learn when you have much easier alternative doing all the common tasks you need as well, but shrug11:36
hyperairseb128: because the tool is awesome once you understand it.11:37
hyperairseb128: because once you do know how to use it, it is that much better than other, easier tools.11:37
crevetteand git is perhaps the tool for hardcore developers? not for casual hacker11:37
seb128I don't care about how the tool is awesome, I want to checkout, commit commit commit, push somewhere11:37
pittithe only real advantage that I see is speed11:37
hyperairsame question as why do people use vim instead of nano11:37
seb128and any modern vcs allows that11:37
pittibut for almost all projects that doesn't matter11:37
hyperairpitti: size.11:37
pittihyperair: I don't care11:38
pittigit is huge, sure, but even that I don't mind11:38
pitti(git trees, I mean)11:38
hyperairpitti: i recovered somewhere around 1G by shoving every thing into git from bzr.11:38
seb128hyperair, I don't see how it can be better than bzr for checkout, commit, push which is all I need11:38
hyperairpitti: granted, i had a bunch of tarballs lying around that got shoved into git as well11:38
pittimy projects are in the 50 to 500 KB range, I don't care at all about speed or size11:38
hyperairseb128: if that's all you need, and are sure you don't need any more, then no, it's no better than bzr.11:39
seb128hyperair, and all what 99% of people need with easy merging and some other things which are available in any vcs11:39
pittiobviously git is very good at handling kernel trees, and bzr sucks for that11:39
hyperairseb128: i found git merging much smoother than bzr's.11:39
pittibut 95% of the projects out there aren't kernel sized11:39
hyperairseb128: at the very least, i didn't have to worry about repository incompatibilities11:39
seb128hyperair, I usually bzr merge, review, commit11:39
pittilast time I merged, it utterly failed11:39
pittiI ended up having to format-patch there, and git patch/git add/git commit (times 10)11:39
seb128hyperair, you seem to focus on this format issue, I never got bitten by that though, no reason the format should change in a set up repository11:40
* pitti STFU now11:40
hyperairi got bitten MANY times.11:40
hyperairso many that i switched to git11:40
pittihyperair: let's agree to disagree11:40
pittiyou won't ever convince me, and apparently I won't convince you :)11:40
seb128good the poppler guys merged my patch to use gtkbuilder11:40
seb128one less libglade depends for karmic ;-)11:41
pittihah, Richard ack'ed my devkit-power patch to fix the "immediately suspends" issue \o/11:41
hyperairpitti: a year or so ago, you would have. rather, i read the docs and was convinced to use bzr. then the format issue bit my ass so many times that i switched to git, and am happy to say i'm not going back.11:41
hyperairpitti: pristine-tar rocks, by the way.11:41
pittihyperair: pristine-tar> *nod* (that exists for both systems)11:42
hyperairpitti: yeah it does. but where does it store the .delta files for bzr?11:43
pittiI don't use it for my projects, but pkg-utopia does, and it's quite an interesting idea11:43
hyperairpitti: in git, it just dumps it into the tree under the "pristine-tar" branch.11:43
pittihyperair: I don't know (and I don't care :) )11:43
hyperairit's pretty awesome for package maintainenace i must say =p11:43
hyperairrather than 10s of tarballs, you just have a VCS and pristine-tar deltas11:44
* hyperair wonders where bdefreese has gone.11:47
hyperairnautilus-share needs a sponsor into debian =\11:47
Laneyask ajmitch!11:48
hyperairhe's a DD?11:48
seb128when will debian accept source uploads...11:48
hyperairdoesn't it?11:49
* Laney plays with the new bzr branches11:49
pittihyperair: no, you always have to upload a set of binaries alongside11:49
Laneywhat happens if you upload _source.changes?11:49
* hyperair patiently waits for git-bzr to enter the archives11:49
Laneywill dak reject it?11:49
hyperairhmm that doesn't sound nice =\11:50
seb128I would sponsor some uploads otherwise11:50
hyperairthe binaries get thrown away anyway, dont' they?11:50
seb128but I don't have a current debian unstable install to build binaries11:50
hyperairseb128: pbuilder!11:50
seb128no the binaries you upload are the one available on the mirrors11:50
Laneypbuilder-dist sid create11:51
seb128which means that if you have experimental packages, etc you can screw builds easily11:51
seb128I know how to use pbuilder11:51
seb128the issue is how much daily download you have to do11:51
hyperairi don't have much =\11:52
seb128ie I'm rsyncing daily karmic CD now and it will saturate my download for 2 hours still11:52
seb128then I dist-upgrade karmic and it's one extra hour11:52
seb128and it's lag so much that I can't triage bugs11:52
seb128I don't fancy putting my internet in lag mode for an another hour only to update a sid pbuilder11:52
* hyperair thinks living on campus with a server on LAN is awesome =p11:52
seb128I would be happy to test nautilus-share on karmic and do a source upload to debian though11:53
seb128but since that's not possible you will have to find another sponsor11:53
Laneyso yeah, does dak actually reject it?11:53
seb128source uploads are not accepted no11:53
hyperairwhat's the point of taking source updates anyway =\11:54
hyperairwhat if i build nautilus-share for you?11:54
seb128sources update means you have less to upload and you are sure that the build is made on a clean install11:55
seb128I could build on karmic and upload to debian and the binary would depends on gtk 2.17 which is not in debian11:55
Laneywhat is the rationale? buildd time?11:55
seb128no they basically argue that it forces maintainer to test build before uploading11:56
seb128ie you can't upload something which obvious ftbfs11:56
seb128it's sort of a wrong technical solution to a social issue11:57
Laneynothing like a bit of trust eh11:57
hyperairheh yeah11:57
Laneyit does solve some edge problems though i.e. bootstrapping11:57
seb128any lunch time11:57
seb128Laney, not really since you upload binaries for one arch only11:57
seb128it will still need to build on the buildds for other architectures11:57
hyperairarch=all stuff =p11:58
Laneyanyway, pidgin diff is up11:58
Laneylunch and travelling to the office, bbl11:58
seb128Laney, thanks, I will review that after lunch11:59
hyperairLaney: by the way, you might be interested to know that the geany plugins have merged and will soon release (i just have to testbuild and tag the release)12:00
seb128didrocks, clutter-0.9 building now12:01
didrocksseb128: thanks for noticing :-) I will have some time now to dedicate to mutter.12:01
pittiseb128: ugh, what downstream do you have?12:02
Laneyhyperair: merged how?12:04
hyperairLaney: geany-plugins-0.17.tar.gz12:04
seb128pitti, my dsl? 1024,25612:04
pittiseb128: ugh, poor you12:04
Laneyhyperair: oh, so all of the other source packages now go away?12:05
hyperairnot all12:05
hyperairgeanyprj didn't get merged12:05
hyperairnot all of them joined12:05
hyperairbut most did12:05
Laneyi see12:05
Laneyany progress on debian?12:05
seb128pitti, well it's ok to do daily karmic updates, but not for updating karmic, debian, jaunty, iso download, etc12:05
hyperairLaney: got sponsor, but we decided to wait for geany-plugins to release.12:06
mvoseb128: new libgksu should fix the problem, pleae le tme know (but I'm off for lunch now)12:18
Laneywhat is this super-l email about?12:23
crevetteI thought it was a spam12:27
LaneyI have no idea what the original problem is12:28
Laneyis it just a nutjob?12:28
chrisccoulsoni thought the same thing12:29
chrisccoulsonit seems a bit wierd12:29
seb128mvo, cool, I will test when it's available12:41
seb128Laney, what email?12:41
chrisccoulsonseb128 - it's another mail on u-d-d ;)12:45
seb128chrisccoulson, weird I didn't receive it, maybe it has been tagged as spam on the way there12:46
chrisccoulsonquite possibly. i thought it was spam when i first opened it but then couldnt work out whether the poster was being serious or not12:47
chrisccoulsonand i was still half-asleep when i read it!12:47
rodrigo_seb128: can't I use 'debian/tmp/*' in *.install files?13:37
seb128rodrigo_, you can, why?13:37
rodrigo_seb128: it fails with no files found, but 'make install' installed them13:37
rodrigo_seb128: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28596352/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-lpia.evolution-couchdb_0.1.1-7_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz13:37
seb128where is the source package?13:37
rodrigo_seb128: in https://launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa13:38
seb128rodrigo_, you have only one binary, it does a make install directory to evolution-couchdb there is no .install13:39
seb128rodrigo_, the .install are required when you have several binaries to say what goes where13:39
rodrigo_ah, ok, so with no .install file it would just include everything it installed?13:40
seb128rodrigo_, you might override that in the rules and say to install to tmp and move things if you really want though13:40
seb128rodrigo_, yes when there is only one deb built the default is to ship everything13:40
rodrigo_ok, cool13:40
seb128ie make install to debian/binary13:40
* rodrigo_ feels he's almost there :)13:42
Laneythe email was to ubuntu-desktop13:45
seb128oh, I got this one and marked it as read without reading it apparently13:46
seb128the title probably inspired me in my morning cleaning ;-)13:46
Laneywhat's it about? anything?13:47
seb128it seems long and boring I'm not really interested to read it to say ;-)13:48
seb128chrisccoulson, there is a new gnome-session, interested by doing the update?13:49
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i can do the gnome-session update14:08
seb128chrisccoulson, thanks14:08
chrisccoulsonno problem14:08
rickspencer3didrocks: howdy14:28
pittiMr. Spencer!14:28
rickspencer3hi pitti14:28
seb128hey rickspencer314:29
rickspencer3hi seb12814:29
seb128rickspencer3, when do you start traveling to desktop summit?14:29
rickspencer3seb128: late morning14:30
seb128mvo, just tested your libgksu update that fixes the issue!14:30
kenvandinehey rickspencer314:30
rickspencer3after I finish slurping my coffee, I'll pack, and then pull some code14:30
rickspencer3then I'm off14:30
kenvandinerickspencer3, is quickly all ready for your talk?14:30
rickspencer3kenvandine: the coding part is14:30
rickspencer3it would be cool if I could demo packaging and/or releasing, but that's not too important14:31
didrocksrickspencer3: hey rick!14:32
rickspencer3didrocks: I pimped out https://code.edge.launchpad.net/quickly a little bit14:33
didrocksrickspencer3: yes, with a new logo :D14:33
rickspencer3I'm going to pull in the next hour so, do  you have code to push before I leave?14:33
didrocksrickspencer3: I wanted to try to finish quickly release tonight if "mutter" doesn't give hard time :)14:34
rickspencer3didrocks: I put the svg file in with the ubuntu-project template, so feel free to make the logo better14:34
didrocksrickspencer3: will you be able to pull when arriving to GUADEC?14:34
rickspencer3didrocks: yes, for sure I'll pull every day :)14:34
didrocksrickspencer3: I will try to not push too many thing so that you don't have the "demo effect" :)14:35
didrocksjust finish nice stuff in quickly release14:35
mvoseb128: excellent, I send a mail to kov discussing the issue, I think its a design problem with the latest code, but I'm curious to hear his opinion14:35
=== maxb__ is now known as maxb
didrocksrickspencer3: if you want to get ride off all the config, you can remove ~/.quickly-data (it's where cache and crendentials are stored)14:37
rickspencer3didrocks: go ahead and push!14:37
rickspencer3I can roll back if there's a problem14:37
seb128mvo, ok cool14:37
didrocksrickspencer3: ok. Not at home currently. I will do this tonight. So, when you will be already in your plane :)14:38
rickspencer3didrocks: right ... I'll work on the tutorial code and the tutorial, and on the template ...14:38
rickspencer3so we shouldn't have any conflicts to merge14:38
* rickspencer3 hates merging conflicts14:39
didrocksrickspencer3: yes, I saw it gave you hard time. Next time, let me merge it (I have a bzr branch in my server)14:39
rickspencer3didrocks: :)14:40
=== SiDi_ is now known as SiDi
mvogeser: re bug #384144 if you can rperoduce that easily, could you check if apport gets a backtrace ?14:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 384144 in ubuntuone-storage-protocol "debian/copyright should mention GPL files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38414414:58
Mark__Tkenvandine: ping15:01
kenvandineMark__T, pong15:03
kenvandineMark__T, what's up man?15:03
Mark__Twill karmic have indicator-applet 0.2?15:03
Mark__TOkay, SiDi sort of asked me on a different channel, so I thought, I make sure15:04
kenvandineMark__T, how current is the snapshot in foresight?15:04
Mark__Tkenvandine:  latest revision15:05
gesermvo: do you mean bug #385144? will try to get apport catch something15:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 385144 in apt "apt-get dies with "E: Method http has died unexpectedly!"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38514415:10
SiDikenvandine: will it have libindicate in a non-gnome-dependant package ? ^.^15:11
mvogeser: that is much appreciated - I tried it with squid on a tmpfs pbuilder here and I get a random hang for some seconds, but no crash15:16
mvogeser: what kind of download rates you get with the cacher?15:17
dobeypitti: hey. did you get a chance to look at ubuntuone-client ?15:18
gesermvo: apt shows in the summary up to nearly 60 MB/s for downloading the build-depends for some packages I tried to build15:19
jcastrorickspencer3: you leave today for GC right?15:19
rickspencer3jcastro: yes15:19
rickspencer3heading to the airport in a couple of hours, packing now15:19
mvogeser: I suspect this is key to reproduce, I get only ~30 so far15:19
jcastrorickspencer3: me too, what time do you get there locally? I get there 2pm Thursday local time15:20
rickspencer3jcastro: are you flying from Madrid?15:21
pittidobey: on my list; I started reviewing last night, but then I just fell asleep15:21
jcastrorickspencer3: yeah, AA624015:21
mvogeser: what is the package you get it with? or does it happen with multiple ones?15:21
pittidobey: it needs a couple of fixes such as the new python-ubuntuone-storage-backend dependency, and some other stuff I forgot (will do detailled review later)15:21
rickspencer3jcastro: I'm getting in at 2:45 on spain air15:23
rickspencer3maybe I'll see you at the airport in Madrid15:23
jcastrorickspencer3: it's only 45 minutes, I'll just wait for you at the GC airport15:23
jcastroI have all the maps and stuff15:23
dobeypitti: doh. i see i forgot a comma in one place15:24
pittidobey: there were some other lintian things as well15:25
pittidobey: do you use lintian? it's quite helpful15:26
dobeyit is not clear how to, and debuild doesn't seem to run it i guess15:26
pittiit does15:26
pittiyou just need to install it15:26
dobeyit is installed15:26
SiDikenvandine: mind if i pm you ?15:27
pittihm, it's run by default after debuild -S or debuild -b15:27
kenvandineSiDi, sure15:27
kenvandinedobey, i saw it when i built it :)15:27
dobeyhrmm, then it must be very sparse in jaunty or something, because i ran debuild -S -sa to build the source package15:27
dobeybecause i fixed the few things that were complained about in its output15:27
pittidobey: source package might be okay; the binary checks are (and can) only be run if you build binaries15:27
dobeywell i did a binary build as well to make sure i had the ${source:Version} bit correct because my memory was vague on it15:28
rickspencer3jcastro: thanks15:28
rickspencer3that would be really great15:28
rickspencer3I'll try to meet up with you in Madrid too15:28
dobeyand it didn't complain about anything extra that seemed to warrant fixing (Original-Maintainer and Python-Version or something was all it mentioned)15:28
rodrigo_seb128: another question :) to add a patch to a package, I just need to copy it to debian/patches, right?15:32
chrisccoulsonrodrigo_ - it depends what patch system the package uses15:37
rodrigo_chrisccoulson: hmm, how do I find out?15:37
rodrigo_it's got no patches right now, or do you mean something else?15:38
chrisccoulsonyou could take a look in debian/rules. if it's got no patches already, then you might need to add a patch system in debian/rules15:39
rodrigo_chrisccoulson: how do I do that? (could you point me to some docs?)15:42
* seb128 kicks his isp today15:43
rodrigo_oh, it already has: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk15:43
rodrigo_is that ok?15:43
seb128rodrigo_, add a "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk" in rules15:43
seb128rodrigo_, then you can copy a patch in the patches directory and get it used automagically15:43
rodrigo_ah ok15:43
pittirickspencer3: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system :)15:44
rickspencer3pitti: wow!15:44
rickspencer3lots of "DONE"!15:44
pittipython-mkdebian now generates a working and reasonably policy compliant debian package from apport trunk15:44
pittiall imports are correctly converted to Dependencies, etc.15:45
rickspencer3I can't wait to try it on the ubuntu-project15:45
rickspencer3that is so cool15:45
rickspencer3I think we can use this for quickly itself!15:45
pittisome stuff is still missing15:45
pittisuch as updating existing debian/control, test cases, proposing distutils extra base stuff as a PEP, etc.15:45
pittibut it should be enough to get you going15:45
pitti(test cases for debianization, that is; DistUtilsExtra.auto has full test coverage)15:46
rickspencer3I should be able to create $quickly package fairly easily now15:46
pittishoudl be on archive.u.c. in 75 minutes15:46
pittior, if you want to try it now, lp:~python-distutils-extra-hackers/python-distutils-extra/debian15:47
gesermvo: it happened with different ones, currently I'm reproducing it with camlimages15:47
gesermvo: how do I get apport to pick something up? as apt doesn't really crash but exits with the message and return code 10015:47
pittieww, I suck15:48
mvogeser: I thought it might crash, but if it does not I add some better error output and do a upload in some minutes15:49
rickspencer3pitti: I'll pull, as I'm bringing a Jaunty machine to Gran Canaria (my eee)15:49
gesermvo: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/207565/ that's what I get when I try to download the build-depends for camlimages15:50
mvogeser: thanks, I try this now15:52
djsiegelseb128 rickspencer3: We're getting no movement on this week's paper cuts, when you get a moment, can you take a look and let me know if any of them look particularly suited for any individual contributors? I can ping them (or you can) to try to get some of them looked at. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/round-216:11
seb128djsiegel, I will have a look now but this week is not the best week to get work on those since a good part of the desktop people are travelling to the desktop summit16:26
djsiegelseb128: right, including me16:26
seb128djsiegel, it would be nice it you could update the description with the design suggestion16:29
seb128djsiegel, it's not always easy to find the recommendation in the list of comments16:29
djsiegelseb128: ok, I was wondering about that, if it was good or bad bug etiquette16:29
seb128djsiegel, ie bug #23293 it's not clear what should be fone16:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 23293 in nautilus "Nautilus windows should close on unmount" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2329316:29
gesermvo: I get "E: ::ReadMessages returned false - pkgAcquire::Worker::ReadMessages (2 No such file or directory)" with your new apt16:30
mvogeser: excellent, thanks a lot! could you please add the debug string I put in the report too ? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/385144/comments/4) ?16:32
ubottuUbuntu bug 385144 in apt "apt-get dies with "E: Method http has died unexpectedly!"" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:32
mvogeser: I also uploaded another apt with different debug output now16:41
mvogeser: hm, you said the method exists with exit status 100 ?16:53
gesermvo: yes, echo $? returns 10016:55
chrisccoulsonseb128 - would you mind adding some comments to my MOTU application when you have some spare time? :)17:04
gesermvo: I've attached the apt output (with debugging) to the bug, trying ubuntu1.2 now17:05
seb128chrisccoulson, that's on a wiki page right?17:08
pittichrisccoulson: me too, me too!17:09
djsiegelpitti: The decision for now is to use glide-2 for open and close (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/195737)17:11
ubottuUbuntu bug 195737 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "Make window open animation the same as close animation (glide 2)" [Wishlist,In progress]17:11
pittidjsiegel: I saw, thanks; I'll sponsor that soon17:11
djsiegelcool, thanks17:11
djsiegelNot sure why those two bug reports got swizzled into one17:11
chrisccoulsonpitti, seb128 - the application is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisCoulson/MOTUApplication17:12
pittiyou mean "into two"?17:12
seb128chrisccoulson, ok17:12
gesermvo: "E: ReadMessages: read return 0" with apt 0.7.21ubuntu1.217:14
seb128djsiegel, bug #372132 needs design recommendations17:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 372132 in hundredpapercuts ""Create Document" Templates difficult to use" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37213217:27
seb128djsiegel, bug #387796 too17:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 387796 in hundredpapercuts "Display icons in the "open with ..." list " [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38779617:27
seb128djsiegel, bug #390362 added to review queue it's probably for asac17:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 390362 in hundredpapercuts "entering wep key to NM requires tabbing/clicking" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39036217:29
seb128djsiegel, bug #146918 needs design recommendations17:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 146918 in update-notifier "Poor descriptions for some applications in Startup Programs window" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14691817:29
seb128djsiegel, bug #392292 needs design recommendations17:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 392292 in hundredpapercuts "Tooltip of the search button[nautilus] is misleading" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39229217:29
djsiegelseb128: yes, I know17:29
seb128djsiegel, well it seems to me that the design team should have made recommendations earlier than that if you want people to tackle those issues17:30
seb128djsiegel, bugs are not being worked because there is no clear instructions on what need to be done on most of the bugs for this round17:30
djsiegelseb128: that's true, I know. I don't think the design team is clear on their role. The idea isn't that all design on every bug would be done by the design team.17:31
djsiegelseb128: before there was a canonical design team, weren't there people working on usability bugs?17:31
seb128djsiegel, well, "descriptions are not good enough" requires an english speaking to suggest better wording for example17:32
seb128djsiegel, not really, which is part of why those bugs have not been fixed yet ...17:32
seb128speaking -> speaker17:32
djsiegelseb128: I'm afraid 100 paper cuts will not be finished if people are waiting for one of the three or four of us on the design team looking at paper cuts to adjudicate on each one.17:34
seb128djsiegel, ok so they will not be finished, fair enough17:34
djsiegelseb128: we are putting the spotlight on these and helping user test the hard ones, but the operating assumption should not be that they are blocking until the design team weighs in.17:34
seb128djsiegel, I'm not an english speaker and I don't know what would be better wording for those labels that what we have now for example17:35
djsiegelMany of the bugs fixed so far have been fixed without design team suggestion17:35
djsiegelseb128: ok, don't propose a solution for that bug then17:35
djsiegelin fact, on bugs where someone from the design team has weighed in, it has slowed bug progress17:36
seb128djsiegel, those I listed before are blocked on somebody having a clue about design making a recommendation17:36
seb128well "Create Document" Templates difficult to use"17:36
djsiegelok, well, I am working on one right now17:36
seb128take that one for example17:36
djsiegeland I emailed the team to get moving17:36
seb128great, why is it difficult?17:36
seb128if it's open for 5 years that's a chance that the hackers don't find it difficult to use17:36
seb128and will not make change if you don't suggest an easier way17:37
djsiegelright, well, most of the time we agree with the proposed solution in the bug description/title17:37
djsiegelif we need to restate that and say "this is the suggestion," we can do that17:37
seb128same for bug #2329317:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 23293 in nautilus "Nautilus windows should close on unmount" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2329317:38
seb128what else should it be doing?17:38
djsiegelthere are no perfect solutions17:38
seb128ups, wrong bug number17:38
djsiegelwe are just looking for progress on some17:38
seb128well there is some progresses17:38
seb128the round-2 list has 1 fix commited, one patch waiting for upstream review and a bunch of in progress bugs17:39
seb128djsiegel, bug #23293 I disagree with for example, it has been changed to do that because we were getting bugs from user saying that nautilus was crashing17:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 23293 in nautilus "Nautilus windows should close on unmount" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2329317:39
seb128djsiegel, for users apparently "closing without action" == crashing17:40
djsiegelseb128: reasonable, we could user test, but there is action17:40
seb128well apparently users don't do the connection17:40
seb128I can look for old bugs about that if that's of any use17:41
mvogeser: many thanks \o/17:46
asacawe: can you look at #390362 please17:46
asacits a papercut bug. not sure what we want there or not.17:47
aweasac: sure17:47
aweI actually mentioned it to rick last night17:48
asacawe: if you think it makes sense in general, we might want to apply it for now17:48
aweit seems like a good fix, but I haven't looked at the patch closely yet17:48
asaceven if its useless in future17:48
aweI'll take a look this afternoon.17:48
seb128djsiegel, ok, I've added ubuntu task for bugs which didn't have so the maintainers get notified and added some comments17:49
djsiegelseb128: awesome, and I added a design suggestion: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28602360/dialog.png17:52
pittigood night everyone, time for dinner and Taekwondo17:53
chrisccoulsongood night pitti17:53
seb128'night pitti17:54
mvogeser: I uploaded yet another apt with debug output :)18:39
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
seb128asac, there?23:10
asacseb128: yes23:16
seb128asac, do you plan to ship libmozjs in /usr/lib for karmic?23:17
seb128asac, I'm fighting gnome bug #57341323:17
asacthats the question23:17
ubottuGnome bug 573413 in general "libmozjs linking broken on Ubuntu" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57341323:17
seb128asac, ie trying to get gnome-shell in a ppa before GUADEC as asked by rick23:17
seb128gnagnagna, dan's patch doesn't do the trick23:18
asacseb128: for now use LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/xulrunner-`xulrunner -gre-version`:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH23:18
seb128asac, where do I put that?23:19
asacto get the package going23:19
asacseb128: you need some start script ;)23:19
seb128asac, it ftbfs right now, it's not runtime23:19
seb128the build call g-ir-scanner to build some gobject introspection code23:20
seb128and that's the think which breaks23:20
asaclet me check the patch23:20
asacseb128: how does the biuld fail?23:21
asacwithout looking context i would say: 1. drop the configure part of the patch. 2. replace +    mozjs_libdir = '@MOZJS_LIBDIR@'23:21
seb128"(mutter:6014): mutter-WARNING **: Could not load library [/builddir/src/libgnome-shell.la (libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)]23:21
seb128(mutter:6014): mutter-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins23:21
seb128Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type'23:21
seb128failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type'23:21
seb128Command '['mutter', '--mutter-plugins=/builddir/src/libgnome-shell.la', '--introspect-dump=/tmp/tmp-introspectGeuNxi/types.txt,/tmp/tmp-introspectGeuNxi/dump.xml']' returned non-zero exit status 1"23:21
asacwith mozjs_libdir = /usr/lib/xulrunner-`xulrunner -gre-version`23:22
asacand dont use the @...@ thing detected at build time23:22
seb128$ grep mozjs_libdir *23:22
seb128gnome-shell:    mozjs_libdir = '/usr/lib/xulrunner-'23:22
asacseb128: yes. but thats wrong. it should always be evaluated dynamically23:22
seb128well that will not make a different in this case23:22
seb128I've the lib in '/usr/lib/xulrunner-
asacthats not the build problem23:23
asacbut the runtime problem you will end up23:23
seb128I'm wondering if I can add a -rpath somewhere23:23
asaci need to see the link linne of libgnome-shell.la23:23
asacseb128: i think setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH during build correctly might also help23:24
asacif its works its better than -rpath because its just for the build and doesnt influence runtime behaviour later on23:24
seb128asac, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/207770/23:25
asacseb128: and the content of libgnome-shell.la?23:26
seb128asac, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/207772/23:26
asacseb128: i guess you have the /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel- ?23:27
seb128export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/lib/xulrunner-
seb128that works23:27
asacthats the idea23:27
asacand then fix the gnome-shell like i said23:28
asacand you should be fine23:28
seb128I'm just not sure where to plug the LD_LIBRARY_PATH during the build23:28
seb128I will figure thanks23:28
asacseb128: debian/rules23:28
asacjust set it there23:28
seb128export .... ?23:28
asacexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=...23:28
seb128I tried but it didn't like that23:28
asaci think you can even just use export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/lib/xulrunner-$(shell xulrunner --gre-version)"23:28
seb128lot of23:29
seb128ERROR: ld.so: object 'libfakeroot-sysv.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.23:29
asacmaybe there is a special hook23:29
asacseb128: ah23:29
asacyeah you need to use =$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:...23:29
asace.g. keep the original path23:29
asacthats where fakeroot is23:29
seb128I used23:29
seb128+export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/lib/xulrunner-
asacseb128: hmm. doesnt make evaluate that up front?23:30
asactry $$LD_LIBRARY_PATH23:30
seb128no warning, let's see if that makes what I want too23:30
seb128hum, I got those warnings later during the build23:31
seb128otherwise that seems to work23:32
seb128ie it builds23:32
seb128it just stop on "install: cannot change owner and permissions" due to the preload issue23:32
asaclets check cdbs23:32
seb128but that might not be due to the rules change23:33
seb128Tidy-1.0.typelib: libtidy-1.0.la Tidy-1.0.gir23:33
seb128LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+$$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:}. g-ir-compiler Tidy-1.0.gir -o $@23:33
seb128CLEANFILES += Tidy-1.0.typelib23:33
seb128they do that in the makefile.am23:33
seb128I'm wondering if that's their makefile breaking it23:33
asaci would think it looks ok23:37
asacat least that line23:37
asacdoes gnome-shell have lots of depends i probably dont have installed yet?23:40
seb128not that much no23:40
seb128but it's over work hour so we can look at it tomorrow rather if you want23:40
seb128asac, deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/ppa/ubuntu karmic main23:41
seb128sudo apt-get install libclutter-0.9-dev gjs gjs-dev libmutter-dev23:42
seb128asac, basically23:42
seb128sudo apt-get install libclutter-0.9-dev gjs gjs-dev libmutter-dev libgirepository-dev gobject-introspection gobject-introspection-glib-2.0 gobject-introspection-repository23:43
seb128to be sure23:43
seb128but I'm not sure introspection is required23:43
seb128asac, the current wip package is on dget http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/gnome-shell_0.0.1~git20090701-0ubuntu0.1.dsc23:45
asacseb128: are you building trunk?23:46
asacor a branch?23:46
seb128asac, trunk23:46
seb128asac, git clone git://git.gnome.org/gnome-shell23:46
asacfor me the upstream stuff fails at http://paste.ubuntu.com/207789/23:47
asacCouldn't find include 'PangoCairo-1.0.gir'23:47
seb128asac, sudo apt-get install gobject-introspection-repository23:47
seb128asac, cf my second apt-get line before23:47
asacnext gir problem23:50
asaccant find any Big gir here23:50
seb128asac, sudo apt-get install gobject-introspection23:50
asaci am sure i copied the line23:50
asacthats installed already23:50
asacii  gobject-introspection               0.6.3-0ubuntu123:51
seb128asac, the Big.gir is in the gnome-shell src23:51
seb128asac, you have /usr/bin/g-ir-scanner?23:52
asacits not in the src23:52
asacanyway taking package now23:52
seb128clean your source and start again?23:52
seb128maybe it didn't find gir at configure time because it was not installed23:52
seb128and you did run make without running configure again23:52
asaci reran configure23:53
asaci am now building package ;)23:53
seb128comment the export in rules otherwise it will work23:54
asacfails the same way ;)23:54
seb128the Gir way?23:54
asacthats with the export23:54
asaceven without the export it fails the same way23:55
asacso its _before_ the bug i want to look at23:55
asacactually, this gir command is supposd to create this Big gir thing23:56
seb128asac, did you install mutter too?23:58
asacseb128: i installed libmutter-dev23:59
asacinstalling now23:59
seb128try installing mutter, in fact I built that one locally and dpkg -i *.deb23:59
asacwill mutter kill my metacity?23:59
seb128it's a different wm it will not run if you don't run it by hand23:59

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