[00:02] Hey rickspencer3, robert_ancell. [00:02] TheMuso, hi [00:03] robert_ancell: TheMuso: hi guyses [00:04] Hey rickspencer3. [00:04] * awe waves [00:04] hi awe [00:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-30 [00:05] I haven't had a chance to copy over any notes from this morning [00:06] I don't actually think it will take to long for us to run through these [00:06] ready? [00:06] go [00:06] sure [00:06] +1 [00:06] ok, first, if you don't have travel arranged for Dublin, please arrange it asap, prices are going up quickly [00:07] A bunch of us are going to Desktop Summit [00:07] Its just about arranged on my part, since I'm travelling with StevenK. [00:07] seb128, Riddell, robert_ancell, me, kenvandine [00:07] TheMuso: great [00:08] I'm battling the travel agent to finally send me an eticket [00:08] hmm [00:08] robert_ancell: do you need help? [00:08] rickspencer3, I've got the route chosen, I just send a reminder email today to confirm that it is booked [00:08] ok [00:09] I'll be traveling starting tomorrow, so let randa know if you have problems getting your travel arrangements closed [00:09] sure [00:09] ok [00:10] so then there was the partner update [00:10] essentially U1 file synching is still almost in universe again [00:10] Cool. [00:10] I guess there was a big round of reviews on the packaging, and this sent dobey back to relayout the bzr branches and such [00:11] also, DXE hasn't quite published their plan for Karmic ... [00:11] but they are doing a new FUSA to be compatible with new gdm [00:12] Is that FUSA going upstream? [00:12] so kenvandine is in charge of getting gdm-new and the new Fusa into the archive soon, and smoothley [00:12] Cool [00:12] * TheMuso notes his activity report is not yet on that pagre. [00:12] robert_ancell: well, it's open source, so if they want it, however, I think it's kind of a replacement, so the intention was not to be a new upstream FUSA (so far as I can tell) [00:13] TheMuso: right, I haven't copied those over yet, I'll get to it before I leave, don't worry [00:13] rickspencer3, I ask because I did some work on the fusa package and it is full of Ubuntu patches and doesn't seem to be worked on upstream. So it would be good if this can replace the existing upstream project [00:13] * TheMuso is not worried. [00:14] robert_ancell: ok, please bring that up with seb128 [00:14] will do [00:14] thanks [00:14] ACTION: robert_ancell to discuss upstream of DXE FUSA applet wtih seb128 and kenvandine [00:14] Kubuntu ... [00:15] first, they have a bootable usb drive making tool now, so they can make netbook images [00:15] second, those images aren't actually tweaked for netbooks yet, but the package of netbook settings is created, it just needs the settings [00:16] so your netbook can be Kubutulicious in a matter of a couple of weeks, I'm guessing [00:16] cool [00:16] third, their was some discussion regarding Kubuntu and web browsers [00:17] Arora is the new KDE default browser, but they can't just remove conqi because they are afraid of backlash and such [00:17] I assume that uses webkit. [00:17] correct [00:17] TheMuso: yes, I believe Arora does [00:18] but not Konqueror [00:18] so in terms of x, they are still ahead on merges, and KMS is on by default, but not causing a big spike in bugs [00:18] Yeah I know konq didn't. [00:19] there are some x freezes associated with suspend/resume, though [00:19] * TheMuso should test his hardware to be sure all is ok. [00:20] it looks like translations are moving along ok [00:21] then we had a big discussion about PPAs versus Archives [00:21] essentially, there has been a tendency lately to put new stuff into PPAs instead of into Karmic universe [00:21] this has caused some unpredictability around scheduling ... as it is less clear when something has "landed", and [00:22] right [00:22] I may reconsider the konqueror issue, depends on the reaction from upstream on changing browser, there's a definate appetite for moving to something newer now [00:22] it also means that we are all developing on difference configurations [00:22] hi Riddell! [00:22] Do you guys have anything in PPAs that are bound for universe or main? [00:22] or know of anything? [00:23] nope [00:23] no [00:23] Well pulse may be tested in a PPA, but it may just go straight to karmic. [00:24] TheMuso: please discuss with pitti when he wakes up [00:24] in essence, we are preferring to go strait to Karmic [00:24] rickspencer3: He already asked me about it. [00:24] heh [00:24] and? [00:24] Well it requires yet another dependency in main before it can go in. [00:25] SO short term, it will be PPA, till we get the new dependency into main. [00:25] KDE 4.3 RC 1 is in PPA and being uploaded to main [00:25] I see [00:25] ok [00:25] TheMuso: please focus on moving it into main as fast as reasonably possible [00:25] Riddell: ok [00:26] rickspencer3: I will, gotta get it packaged first. [00:26] TheMuso: understood [00:26] The point is that we should strive to not things languish in PPAs, the sooner they get into archives the better [00:26] Yep. [00:27] so we shouldn't feel a false sense of security if something is in a PPA [00:27] (this is a general point, not directed specifically at Pulse Audio) [00:27] speaking of PPAs - gdm-new [00:27] * TheMuso nods. [00:27] if you can, please test it from the desktop team ppa [00:28] similarly, please set up asac's mozilla security updates ppa so those can be tested as well when they are available [00:29] here's a link to the mozilla ppa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa [00:29] do you guys have any agenda items? [00:29] No. [00:30] no [00:30] No, I do want to follow up with TheMuso afterwards re: my review of his spec... [00:30] ok [00:30] thanks guyses! [00:30] thanks [00:32] awe: Ok, sounds good. As I said, I don't understand the volume scaling stuff at all. [00:32] TheMuso: I have a fair large amount of comments for you... should I add email them to you, or add them to the blueprint whiteboard? [00:33] TheMuso: I think from what I heard at UDS, the volume scaling would be solved by using the Pulse volume control and leaving the ALSA volume fixed [00:33] at least that's what I thought I heard Daniel say [00:33] awe: Right, add them to the whiteboard is probably the best, so then everyone else like dtchen then sees them. [00:34] ok [00:34] One thing's that's confusing is whether I comment on the Blueprint, the Specification or both? [00:34] awe: Thanks [00:35] np [00:35] Well I wasn't the one who proposed the blueprint/spec for karmic, so I don't know. [00:35] TO me, audio is one of those things that requires ongoing maintenance, and when things are made to work upstream, we get them to work in Ubuntu. [00:35] i.e doesn't really require a spec. [00:36] but I'll go with what has been asked for. *sighs* [00:37] ok [00:38] I'll just go ahead and add to the whiteboard as you suggested... [00:42] Thanks. === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter === asac_ is now known as asac [07:18] Good morning [07:37] hey pitti. Do you know the status of GNOME 3 in Ubuntu? [07:40] robert_ancell: seb and a few others are packaging gnome-shell and zeitgeist [07:40] pitti, are there packages available? [07:40] robert_ancell: as for the library deprecation, seb works on some smaller issues (droppling libglade, etc.), there were some 2 uploads for this [07:40] robert_ancell: no idea, I'm afraid; zeitgeist does have pacakges somewhere [07:41] pitti, also, do you remember a gnome-scan discussion at UDS? What was the outcome/ [07:42] robert_ancell: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnomescan [07:42] robert_ancell: this says to switch [07:43] robert_ancell: however, I hope that current upstream versions are better than what we have in karmic [07:43] the latter is absolutely useless [07:43] pitti, I just bought a scanner today and xsane is not great [07:44] robert_ancell: I know, but try gnome-scan [07:44] you can't even get the job done with it :) [07:44] robert_ancell: gscan2pdf is pretty good, but it was deemed too complex [07:44] pitti, I just tried it then and it does the scan but doesn't show anything :( [07:44] well, it has the workflow the wrong way around, no possibility to rotate or fix the brightness/gamma, etc. [08:02] pitti, yes, gscan2pdf does seem to work the best for me [08:02] thanks [08:12] hey seb128 [08:12] hey pitti! [08:12] hi seb128 [08:12] hi ajmitch, it has been a while, how are you? [08:13] I'm good :) [08:13] * ajmitch has been around a bit lately :) [08:13] yeah I noticed some uploads from you [08:13] I made some spare time :) [08:14] good! [08:14] hey ajmitch [08:16] * seb128 wonders why pitti apologized on the list [08:17] I start having enough of those mono wars there, they discussed the topic enough by now you could think [08:17] right, and I sort of threw the gauntlet again [08:17] "Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, then beat you with experience." [08:18] (completely ramdon quote which just came to my mind) [08:18] ;-) [08:18] random, too [08:18] I like it ;-) [08:18] * ajmitch understands your frustration :) [08:18] I just ignore those guys nowadays [08:18] especially the ones saying "I'm switching distro if you don't do what I want" [08:18] they sometimes provide amusement [08:19] current set of karmic packages are safe to run at the moment, aren't they? [08:19] seb128: Hi again. Just a heads up, if you use an NVIDIA card with X, the nvidia-180 drivers don't seem to build against 2.6.31 currently, so you may have to hold off your sound test with 2.6.31 if you use NVIDIA, at least till the dkms package is fixed. [08:19] ajmitch: really current current, with gdm fixed, yes [08:19] * ajmitch tends to upgrade by picking & choosing in synaptic, and saw the gdm issues yesterday [08:20] * TheMuso found that out today when wanting to test 2.6.31 with something else. [08:20] TheMuso, I'm using an intel card and sounds seem to be back after daily upgrades so maybe it was some other issues in the udev changes or something or resetting the pulseaudio, etc config made it work not sure [08:21] hey ajmitch, nice to see you [08:22] seb128: ok no problem then, good to hear you're back up and running with sound. [08:22] ...and on that note... [08:22] * TheMuso is outa here. [08:22] hi mvo [08:23] TheMuso: sleep well [08:23] seb128: \o/ [08:24] bye TheMuso [08:24] * pitti tosses some ♩ ♪ ♫ to seb128 [08:24] pitti, ;-) [08:24] * ajmitch shouldn't get sucked into reading debian-devel 'discussions' [08:26] what are they discussing now? [08:26] ia32-apt-get, or how not to do multiarch [08:26] I'm not reading debian-devel nowadays [08:26] probably wise [08:27] I was bored today & wondered what they were talking about in #debian-devel [08:37] seb128: btw, didn't MacSlow send a g-p-m patch recently? I thought you wanted to sponsor it? [08:37] is synaptic crashing for other people too in karmic when using the menu item to start it? [08:37] pitti, not sure, I don't do gpm, I sponsored notify-osd and g-s-d [08:37] ah, ok [08:37] I'm not subscribed to gpm bugs [08:37] will get it out from my mail archive then [08:38] seb128: btw, does new gdm still start for you? [08:38] it shouldn't? [08:38] seb128: it fails with "not the default WM" for me [08:38] $ cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager [08:38] gra [08:38] /usr/sbin/gdm [08:38] but the init script compares that to "/usr/sbin/gdm-binary" [08:38] yeah I changed that in my upload yesterday [08:38] I don't know how it was before this morning's upgrade, I'm afraid [08:38] I hate this thing [08:39] (it worked until yesterday) [08:39] because of the [08:39] SSD_ARG="--exec $DAEMON" [08:39] "restart" didn''t work otherwise [08:39] hi seb128 [08:39] hey robert_ancell [08:40] robert_ancell, had a good day today? [08:40] robert_ancell, when do you fly to desktop summit? [08:41] seb128, administration day today. I fly out tomorrow so I've bought a printer/scanner and did my paperwork I've been putting off. Wrote my GUADEC lightning talk too [08:41] what will you talk about? [08:43] "practical part-time refactoring". It's describes what I think is a good way to get into GNOME based on my experiences in gcalctool; [08:44] seb128: is synaptic crashing or gksu? [08:44] good morning everyone o/ [08:44] mvo, dunno, it doesn't open [08:45] seb128: could you please run "gksu id" in a term? [08:45] gksu synaptic in a g-t works correctly [08:45] Hey pitti, can you look at bug 195737 and bug 221698 again? They both have LP branches - should I add more information to upload requests than that? [08:45] Launchpad bug 195737 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "Make window open animation the same as close animation (glide 2)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195737 [08:45] Launchpad bug 221698 in compiz "Cannot resize window taller than screen (inconsistent with metacity)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221698 [08:45] but not from gnome-panel apparently [08:45] seb128: how strange, anything in .xsession-errors ? [08:45] mvo, "sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo" in .xsession-errors [08:46] robert_ancell: ah, thanks for marking that other one as a dup; clear enough now [08:47] mvo, oh now it breaks in a g-t too [08:47] $ gksu synaptic [08:47] robert_ancell: fine for me now [08:47] sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo [08:47] $ gksu id [08:47] sudo: sorry, a password is required to run sudo [08:47] heh [08:47] mvo, ^ is gksu bog [08:47] seb128: I thought so :) [08:47] pitti, should I merge the two changes in BZR into one release? [08:47] seb128: let me have a look [08:47] robert_ancell: how else did you do it? [08:48] mvo, I get the issue on my laptop since yesterday and on my desktop now [08:48] pitti, there's two UNRELEASED entries in lp:~compiz/compiz/ubuntu [08:48] robert_ancell: right, please merge them into one [08:50] seb128: thanks, I can reproduce it now here [08:50] pitti, done [08:51] seb128, do you know if the DXE fusa work is going to be the upstream fusa solution? i.e. replacing the existing fusa releases? [08:52] robert_ancell, upstream has fusa in gdm now but dxteam wrote a new applet apparently rather than changing this one [08:53] seb128, So the one in http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/fast-user-switch-applet/ is deprecated? [08:53] NIH, or because the other one would have needed too much work? [08:53] robert_ancell, yes [08:53] seb128: yeah, it looks like gksu has changed the way it calls sudo in a strange way [08:54] * mvo wonders if its releated to the gtkbuilder patch from seb128 ;) [08:55] * seb128 slaps mvo [08:55] * mvo hides [08:55] is there a kind archive admin to accept new libgirepository1 binary package, part of gobject-introspection? :) [08:55] didrocks, doing [08:55] btw, is there a page listing all new binary built and waiting for acceptance (I saw that: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gobject-introspection/0.6.3-0ubuntu1/+build/1100440) [08:55] thanks seb128 ;) [08:57] seb128, are there any gnome-shell .debs around? [08:57] robert_ancell, gnagnagna [08:57] seb128, :P I have all day to think up questions for you [08:57] robert_ancell, working on it, cf didrocks gobject-introspection request ;-) [08:57] ooh gnome shell =O [08:58] I did upload gjs to the ubuntu-desktop ppa yesterday [08:58] cool [08:58] ie we are on it but there is a chain of depends to tackle [08:58] want to do some of the work? ;-) [08:58] didrocks: something like launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue ? [08:58] didrocks, no, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue has the list of binaries [08:58] so, when libgirepository1 will be accepted, gir-repository will be able to build, and so clutter 0.9.4 will be built to \o/ [08:58] then, mutter is for me :) [08:58] seb128, I would say yes but I'm about to go travelling. I can have a look if I've got some spare time in GUADEC [08:59] seb128, ajmitch: ok, it's packages with NEW state, right? (so, New doesn't corresponds to "new uploads" [08:59] didrocks: need some NEWing? [08:59] robert_ancell, I said rick I would have it in a ppa before GUADEC so thanks [08:59] pitti, I'm on it [08:59] pitti: seb128 is on it :) [08:59] yeah, NEW binaries/source [09:00] didrocks, newed to universe [09:00] ok, thanks. didn't notice the icon difference at first glance :) [09:00] thanks seb128. Let's wait for the toolchain to be built so. [09:01] didrocks, you have local builds no? ;-) [09:01] that reminds me, I have a critical sync bug to get filed :) [09:02] * seb128 learnt a new trick [09:02] dput ppa:... [09:02] seb128: yes, I built them yesterday with that. But I'm currently at work and will be busy this morning ;) [09:02] didrocks, ok [09:02] seb128: you mean there's a way to do that without adding all of them to ~/.dputrc? [09:02] .dput.cf, rather [09:02] pitti, yes, "dput ppa:user/ppa_name .changes" [09:03] pitti, doesn't require any dput config [09:03] nice [09:03] for your favourite one it's still a bit too verbose, but good to know [09:03] ok. I know what I will test this evening :) [09:03] pitti, ie https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa the first line [09:03] seb128: it works for team PPAs? [09:03] useful [09:03] * pitti grrrs at heisenbugs [09:03] ajmitch, yes [09:04] does anyone else have http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585228 ? [09:04] Gnome bug 585228 in gnome-power-manager "immediately suspends on startup when lid is closed" [Major,Unconfirmed] [09:04] as soon as I start gnome-power-manager --verbose in the foreground, it doesn't happen any more [09:04] * ajmitch *still* hasn't upgraded his laptop from hardy :) [09:04] my laptop never suspended on lid close, is that a setting to configure? [09:04] seb128: it's the current g-p-m default [09:04] not for me [09:04] and what's annoying is that it happens in gdm [09:04] hm [09:05] ah, it coudl be due to dk-power d-bus activation [09:05] I close the lid all the team when I move between rooms [09:05] team -> time [09:05] seb128: I keep it closed when docked [09:05] and my laptop just lock screen [09:05] when docked I just suspend using the GNOME menu entry [09:06] seb128: that should be local gconf, though [09:06] since gdm has its own, it should happen there [09:06] I set it to "ignore" lid events on AC as well for my account [09:06] let me boot my laptop and try [09:06] hah [09:06] seb128: nevermind, I found it [09:06] ok [09:06] it's not a heisenbug, it's devkit-power sending a "lid event" when it's activated [09:07] even if the lid doesn't change [09:07] iz kit bog [09:07] ;-) [09:07] well, that, or g-p-m bug [09:07] but at least --verbose output says the right thing now [09:07] iz pitti bug in any case ;-) [09:07] seb128: right, I just wondered if I was going mad [09:13] bye all [09:29] seb128: I don't remember if I have to retry when the status is "Dependency wait" or just wait for a cron [09:31] didrocks, just wait [09:32] thanks [09:33] didrocks, the publisher take a while, those should be available in 15 minutes or so [09:34] pitti, wb [09:34] my server is offline, seems that the hosting DC lost the interweb tube [09:35] again? [09:35] that's twice in a week now [09:35] last time they did some hardware maintenance [09:36] the ppa publishing is fast nowadays [09:36] pitti, ok, the gdm default manager things is fixed in the ppa now [09:36] seb128: rock, thanks [09:36] binaries are published and available by normal apt upgrade [09:36] seb128: publishing> indeed, it's a breeze [09:37] hum [09:37] there is another annoying upgrade issue there [09:38] the fusa applet doesn't work after upgrade [09:42] seb128: I remembered that when I tried KDM, fusa applet was crashing when launching GNOME [09:43] didrocks - thats a known issue. quite a few users complain about that === asac_ is now known as asac === mdz_ is now known as mdz [10:22] re [10:22] didrocks, gir built now [10:31] lut huats [10:34] hello seb128 ! [10:35] how are you ? [10:37] huats, good, and you? [10:38] good too ! [10:38] the weather is getting too warm for my taste though [10:38] seb128: please don't mention the weather [10:38] i can't stand the warm :) [10:38] (well that kind of warm...) [10:39] and I am not going to the GUADEC... imagine what you are about to live :P [10:39] should be fine [10:39] grand canary is an island the forecast says 24°C with some wind there [10:40] it's cooler than the continual weather there [10:42] and theer is the sea... which helps A LOT ! [10:43] indeed [10:43] and ice cream too in case it's hot ;-) [10:44] :) [10:44] LOL [11:12] pitti: we're having a translations meeting tomorrow, and I'd like to tell translators what's currently happening around translations. I've been following bug #123020 and I think this would be a good thing to comment. Can I explain them the following: [11:12] Launchpad bug 123020 in soyuz "support shipping verbatim files in the exported tarballs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123020 [11:12] 1) There's work in progress in getting the GNOME help files in language packs [11:12] 2) This will _probably_ be done for Karmic [11:12] 3) At this point this will only be a LiveCD space-saving feature, since the xml to PO (import) and PO to xml (langpack export) conversion will still have to be done manually. [11:13] dpm: hi [11:14] dpm: s/LiveCD/CD/ (applies to alternate, too), otherwise correct [11:14] dpm: we will only copy the verbatim bits, no xml <-> po conversion for now [11:14] that requires proper rosetta support [11:15] brb, rebooting [11:15] pitti: hi :), thanks [11:17] pitti: ok, yes, that's what I meant with point 3), I should have probably formulated it better. I'll add the item to the agenda, then [11:18] doh, even pitti start using quilt now [11:22] quilt > * [11:22] *grumpf* I I finally found the problem with gksu, how anoying [11:23] mvo, you rock! [11:23] mvo, tell me it's not the gtkbuilder changes ;-) [11:23] seb128: well, just so that Michael Biebl doesn't kill me after my first commits to pkg-utopia :) [11:23] seb128: but compared to the pain of git, quilt is just worth a shallow "oh" [11:24] btw speaking about git how do you add a file and make it been listed in git diff too? [11:24] seb128: the new forkpty() behaviour and sudo tty_tickets do not work togetether [11:24] I shouldn't have to use patches in the first place [11:24] git add newfile; git diff lists nothing [11:24] but with git-buildpackage at least there seems to be no way to cherrypick patches from trunk properly [11:24] seb128: ah [11:24] seb128: "git diff" does not what you think [11:24] git diff HEAD^ ? [11:24] it shows the diff between the current index and the source [11:24] crevette: oh, so that's it? [11:25] * crevette is always lost with git diff [11:25] I always use "git commit -v" and cancel [11:26] pitti, I admit I didn't look deeply in the doc, as the man page is quite complicated, (you must know a lot of details of git inner to understand it) [11:26] git diff and git diff --cached [11:26] git diff shows the difference between your working tree and the index, git diff --cached shows the difference between HEAD and the index [11:26] hyperair, can I have both in the same command? [11:26] crevette: hah, tell me about it [11:26] seb128: git diff HEAD [11:27] i think [11:27] git is teh pain [11:27] git is really the suck to use [11:27] it's a shame that GNOME picked this one [11:27] better than bzr =p [11:27] I still didn't learn (and don't want to) all those concepts of heads, index, origins, checkouts, intra-tree branches, and how the heck to get a branch ssh'ed over there (i. e. bzr push) [11:27] bzr add && bzr diff does what you expect though [11:27] because bzr doesn't have a staging area [11:28] the fun thing is that even the folks who have used git for a long time don't know how to get git push working :) [11:28] I don't care about a staging area [11:28] pitti, I just had a basic usage as I wrote some patch for GNOME, but nothing fancu [11:28] fancy [11:28] hyperair: bzr shelve [11:28] I want to checkout, do changes and see my changes [11:28] pitti: isn't that the same as git stash? [11:28] anyway, we had enough of them [11:28] (flamewars, I mean) [11:28] hyperair: quite possibly [11:28] yeah so it's not the staging area after all =\ [11:29] but the index concept is so utterly confusing, and not really necessary either [11:29] seems git users are rather interested in how the tool can do tricky things than in getting work done easily [11:29] i don't like that bzr has so goddamn many repository formats, all of which are incompatible with one another [11:29]