[09:57] <dragon_> It'd be cool to have ubottu create links to Google searches
[09:58] <dragon_> query "google keywords" could fetch "http://www.google.com/linux?q=keywords"
[10:04] <dragon_> can't tell if anybody read that
[10:07] <Myrtti> so what do you suggest, how would it work?
[10:09] <dragon_> Myrtti: probably like the way ubottu's other commands do
[10:10] <Myrtti> so you're really suggesting that we'd give  people lmgtfy links?
[10:10] <Myrtti> if not in reality, then in effect
[10:11] <dragon_> sort of, for those who try IRC before Google
[10:12] <dragon_> command will be subjected to the same moderation and abuse control as other commands, so it seems ok to me so far
[10:12] <Myrtti> I hate the suggestion
[10:12] <Tm_T> hi
[10:12] <dragon_> ok.
[10:13] <Tm_T> dragon_: no thanks, lmgtfy is already too much
[10:13] <Myrtti> it's just not worth it
[10:14] <Myrtti> we're supposed to give quality answers and support, and take this atleast in a semiprofessional attitude
[10:14] <Myrtti> giving halfhearted, unchecked and possibly bad, harmful or just plain wrong advice in the form of random google links  is not a good idea
[10:14] <Tm_T> why not then direct our support channels to ##google or even the actual webpage (;)
[10:14] <Tm_T> Myrtti: agreed
[10:15] <dragon_> makes sense
[10:15] <Myrtti> IRC channels, if mentored and monitored correctly, give better advice than Google.
[10:15] <Tm_T> google doesn't ask "did that work?"
[10:15] <Tm_T> nor pretty much help you any way with your attempts
[10:18] <Myrtti> google also returns results including arbitrary root account activation, use of unchecked totally random scripts (of -matix fame and similar) and randomly compiling stuff from source without checking the repos
[10:20] <Tm_T> Myrtti: not to mention random packages
[10:20] <dragon_> yeah, plain google does that.
[10:21] <Myrtti> in short: benefits don't overrule the possible harm done
[10:21] <Tm_T> if you don't want to help, don't try to help then (;)
[10:21] <Tm_T> that's the guideline for lmgtfy-type of persons
[10:22] <dragon_> Tm_T: there are some questions that deserve a lmgtfy answer
[10:22] <Myrtti> dragon_: there is no stupid questions
[10:22] <Myrtti> there is only stupid answers
[10:23] <Myrtti> people want to be held by hand when doing new things.
[10:23] <Myrtti> it's human behaviour, we're scared of trying new things.
[10:23] <Myrtti> quite possibly people have done google search, have found confusing information and come to IRC to get a confirmation on a road to travel
[10:24] <dragon_> yes
[10:24] <Myrtti> and all you see is "how do I install software in Ubuntu"
[10:24] <Tm_T> dragon_: the whole purpose of #ubuntu for example is to help with ubuntu, be it by giving good search words
[10:24] <Tm_T> or something else
[10:25] <dragon_> i agree that a link to ubuntu docs would be way more helpful than a link to google
[10:26] <Myrtti> the problem with lmgtfy links is also that in order to justify their use in any given circumstance, you'd have to do the google search yourself, check that the results given are valid and good, and the reproduce the query for the person asking
[10:28] <Myrtti> and in most cases it's just easier to hand pick the result URL's and give them to the person, than giving him the lmgtfy link and give a warning "but don't use the second link, it's bad"
[10:28] <Myrtti> not to mention the fact that google gives different results depending on your language and location
[10:44] <dragon_> Myrtti, Tm_T: thanks for your feedback. it helped me understand things better.
[10:45] <Tm_T> dragon_: np, that's why we are here for
[10:45] <dragon_> :)
[10:45] <dragon_> catch ya later
[10:49] <jussi01> crud, why didnt I see this before.
[10:49] <Tm_T> see what?
[10:49] <jussi01> We have that facility on ubottu, (the google one) but we chose to disable it
[10:50] <Tm_T> good (:)
[10:50] <jussi01> Philip5: can we help you with something today?
[10:50] <Myrtti> jussi01: look around
[10:51] <jussi01> oh
[10:51] <Philip5> juliux: ehem, i don't know... can you? ;)
[10:51] <jussi01> whoops
[10:51] <jussi01> Philip5: sorry.
[10:51] <jussi01> I thought I was elswhere :D
[10:51] <Philip5> hehe, no problem
[10:52] <Philip5> i'm not sure who i'm today either
[10:52] <Philip5> ;)
[10:52] <jussi01> :D
[15:53] <MTecknology> nalioth: Do you have packages for jaunty and karmic yet?
[16:09] <Tm_T> MTecknology: packages of what?
[16:10] <MTecknology> Tm_T: PackageInfo plugin on ubot3
[16:11] <Tm_T> ah
[19:05] <evanrmurphy> I've been waiting two weeks to get some flags from the founder of #ubuntu-l10n-es with no response. He initially opped me, but didn't pass the flag so I lost it on reentry. I'm pretty sure he meant to grant the flags (asked me if I wanted to be "coordinator and op" for the channel beforehand), so I was wondering if someone here could do it. Thanks for your time.
[19:07] <evanrmurphy> To clarify: I highly doubt this will create conflict, but on the offchance that P3L|C4N0 does complain later, I suppose we could have my flags revoked. Requesting a "/msg ChanServ FLAGS #ubuntu-es-l10n evanrmurphy +*".
[19:08] <evanrmurphy> sorry, channel name backwards there. Should be #ubuntu-l10n-es... "/msg ChanServ FLAGS #ubuntu-l10n-es evanrmurphy +*".
[19:09] <nalioth> evanrmurphy: nothing works unless you're identified to services
[19:12] <evanrmurphy> nalioth: Could you paraphrase that please? Identified in which sense?
[19:13] <nalioth> evanrmurphy: /msg nickserv help identify
[19:14] <nalioth> w/o being identified, any troll could /nick evanrmurphy and kick / ban / murder in channels you have ops in
[19:15] <nalioth> without the identification services of this network, i mean
[19:16] <ubot2> In #ubuntu-br, icefusion11 said: !poo is <reply> Acrônimo de Programação Orientada a Objetos
[19:17] <evanrmurphy> nalioth: Thanks, now I'm identified. Sorry, I thought I was already, but apparently the automatic identify didn't go through.
[19:18] <nalioth> evanrmurphy: if you are +e, services knows who you are
[19:19] <nalioth> Want to see if someone is identified to services at a glance?  http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#spoofing evanrmurphy, this will show you who is and who isn't identified (so you don't talk to trolls)
[19:22] <evanrmurphy> nalioth: OK, thanks.
[19:23] <evanrmurphy> nalioth: Would you be able to grant my request?
[19:24] <evanrmurphy> CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG
[19:33] <nalioth> evanrmurphy: i'm afraid you'll need to ask P3L|C4N0
[19:37] <evanrmurphy> nalioth: Is there a response time cap on his unilateral authority? I sent him an email two weeks ago and a MemoServ note before that.
[19:38] <evanrmurphy> I'd appreciate a comment from one of the members who was helping me on this case earlier. (m4v, Pici, niko)
[19:45] <niko> evanrmurphy: i'm not an op of #ubuntu-es* related channels, but i know the issue with P3L|C4N0
[19:46] <niko> we have the same one years before on #ubuntu-fr*
[19:46] <niko> finally the guy leave the lead
[19:51] <evanrmurphy> niko: You mean P3L|C4N0 finally left, or other person?
[19:51] <m4v> evanrmurphy: the problem isn't with you only. We're trying to contact p3l|c4n0 as well
[19:51] <niko> evanrmurphy: other one
[19:52] <niko> with same issue
[19:52] <evanrmurphy> m4v: Ah... I wasn't aware.
[19:56] <m4v> yesterday we had a talk about it in #ubuntu-es-ops with erUSUL and RoAkSoAx, we'll ask him to add another admin (+*) to the channels he owns
[19:57] <m4v> he's been missing for a week...
[20:15] <evanrmurphy> niko, nalioth: Thanks for your help with this! m4v and RoAkSoAx are assisting me now in #ubuntu-es-ops and the channel in question.