[04:38] <macvr> hyperair: hi... how to remove a comment from lp?
[04:39] <macvr> or even edit the comment
[08:34] <hyperair> macvr: you can't.
[08:34] <macvr> hyperair: how did you do it then?
[08:34] <hyperair> do what?
[08:35] <macvr> wasnt it you how removed your own comment from the papercuts , saying it was off-topic?
[08:35] <hyperair> nope
[08:35] <macvr> who^
[08:35] <hyperair> i just emailed the bug saying it was offtopic, and emailed you the reply directly
[08:35] <macvr> ah... 
[08:38] <macvr> hyperair: you had me confused ;p , i was wonder how the hell you did it but i'm not allowed ;p didnt notice you had sent mail directly
[08:38] <hyperair> heheheh
[08:38] <hyperair> =p
[11:46] <macvr> mpt: maybe you can look at this and consider for your appcenter idea ? > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/394608
[11:47] <mpt> macvr, yes, that should be fixed, thanks for pointing it out
[11:47] <macvr> :)
[11:47] <lamalex> mpt: what's the implementatin status, still targetted for karmic?
[11:47] <mpt> macvr, however, for 9.10 at least Update Manager won't be part of AppCenter, and in the meantime it should be fixed in Update Manager
[11:48] <mpt> lamalex, yes. mvo and glatzor are working on apt-daemon, mvo is trying to wrestle xapian into a helpful state, and I'm starting to write up the design spec
[11:50] <lamalex> cool beans :)
[11:50] <macvr> mpt: how many tiers are the used for the updates? classified as critical/security?
[11:50] <mpt> macvr, as far as Update Manager is concerned, just two. Security, and everything else.
[11:51] <ScottK> That's all there are.
[11:51] <ScottK>  ... at least post-release.
[11:51] <macvr> mpt: ah... so you are leaving out the critical updates to be notified only at 1 week? :(
[11:51] <macvr> non-security^
[11:52] <mpt> For example, if you're subscribed to a daily-build PPA, or subscribed to backports, Update Manager doesn't show them differently from other updates.
[11:54] <macvr> :(
[11:55] <mpt> macvr, the developers who issue the updates regard security updates as more important than the others, so Update Manager acts accordingly. Personally I'd rather security was a subset of critical.
[11:56] <macvr>  ^+1  ... since there is more need for ciritical updates than security updates!
[11:57] <macvr> critical
[11:57] <ScottK> It can actually get much more complex since the criticality of updates in general and security updates in particular is very context dependent.
[12:00] <macvr> ScottK: critical ,can be used fixes that solve crashes/memory leaks/major improvements + security updates .. the problem now is that, the critical[fixes for crashes] updates *dont* trigger notifier until 1 week !
[12:01] <ScottK> macvr: Right.  I think that the entire concept of hiding updates from users is fundamentally wrong and broken.
[12:01] <macvr> in the old notifier this wasnt a problem , since the updates ,show up soon
[12:01] <artir> I have a small proposal for the update manager
[12:01] <artir> right now, it pops out a window each time I click on update
[12:01] <artir> It shpuld be better to display the loading bar inside the app
[12:02] <artir> like this http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6358/pantallazojpb.png
[12:02] <artir> the buttons would be replaced by that bar when u click on update
[12:03] <macvr> artir: this could be considered while designing mpt's appcenter
[12:03] <macvr> as he says it will be included in later releases
[12:04] <mpt> artir, absolutely
[12:04]  * mpt -> lunch
[12:04] <artir> :)
[12:04] <artir> it could be even implemented in time for karmic
[12:05] <artir> it's kinda a papercut
[12:06] <macvr> artir: a redesign is not a papercut ;p
[12:06] <artir> it's a fleshwound :P
[12:06] <macvr> just minor fixes
[12:08] <artir> i'll add it to AppCenter/Comments on the wiki
[12:09]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[12:19] <macvr> ScottK: mpt: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=496
[12:19] <macvr> sometimes too many updates can be frustrating too ;p
[12:20] <macvr> so hiding the non-critical really is not a bad that bad an idea :)
[12:22] <ScottK> macvr: What's non-critical?
[12:24] <macvr> ScottK: trivial fixes , anything that doesn fix a major crash/freeze/or give major improvement to the app 
[12:24] <ScottK> macvr: We don't do those post-release.
[12:24] <macvr> ScottK: anything the averge user doesnt obviously benefit from
[12:24] <ScottK> We have a policies in place for what should be fixed post-release and it should prevent minor stuff from getting out.
[12:25] <macvr> but , things miss out, the Jaunty release caused random X restarts! post release and this was for a month!
[12:26] <ScottK> Existence of a bug doesn't equate to a fix.
[12:26] <ScottK> Particularly with X where many problems are hardware specfiic we need to be very careful as one person's fix may be another person's regression.
[12:28] <macvr> ScottK: ^thats the problem! so when we are fixing one's problem , someone else can have new ones , these are critical for average users, since they just want to use it. maybe such updates can be given higher priority
[12:32] <ScottK> Of course such updates are essential for one person and irrelevant for another.
[12:34] <macvr> but we cant distinguish them , and present the updates at leisure 1 week later for users who need them, but again as you say " entire concept of hiding updates from users is fundamentally broken"
[12:35] <macvr> :)
[13:14] <macvr> oh... its not only probs with X , gedit post 8.10 was highly buggy , causing system freezes and 100%cpu usage , , so things sometimes slip out inspite of the policies
[14:01] <mpt> macvr, we reduce people's fixation on the number of updates in 9.04 by not displaying the number
[14:02] <macvr> mpt: thats what i like about not having the notification area icon. i dont think  much about it
[14:02] <macvr> mpt: btw , in karmic , i saw it back!
[14:02] <macvr> are you planning to return notification area icon?
[14:02] <mpt> no
[14:03] <macvr> Thank goodness
[14:03] <lamalex> phew
[14:03] <macvr> mpt: but still not a fan of the pop-unders ;p
[14:03] <lamalex> I hate that thing, I'm fighting with my company right now to remove it from ours. The other devs think you guys were wrong on removing it. developers--
[14:04] <mpt> We're simplifying the window for Karmic
[14:05] <mpt> Anyway, Update Manager isn't really related to Ayatana, it's more of a subject for #ubuntu-desktop :-)
[14:05] <macvr> ;p
[14:06] <macvr> mpt: you should have a look at the ubuquity slideshow , IMO the design aint that great
[14:10] <mpt> macvr, I know, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2009-June/002124.html
[14:10] <mpt> unfortunately I just don't have time for it at the moment
[14:11] <macvr> mpt: hehe, i pointer HS to you 
[14:11] <macvr> pointed
[14:11] <macvr> i told him though mpt is quite a busy guy
[14:36] <tgpraveen> hi in karmic according to karmic-notify-osd blueprint it is planned to suppress notify-osd bubbles which are non critical for fullscreen apps.
[14:36] <tgpraveen>  so will empathy/pidgin msgs be critical or non critical?
[14:41]  * lamalex had an incident with im bubbles yesterday
[14:41] <lamalex> :\
[14:49] <macvr> tgpraveen: i think there is also plan for a status indicator which will control it ,well atleast it was mentioned in the mailing list
[14:50] <tgpraveen> macvr: like a do-not-disturb mode
[14:50] <macvr> yup
[14:50] <tgpraveen> coz by default IM msgs should be considered critical if in fullscreen they should NOT be suppressed
[14:51] <tgpraveen> though if i am in do-not-disturb mode i guess it makes sense to suppress it
[18:04] <rgreening> kwwii: ping
[18:04] <rgreening> kwwii: are there any .mng oxygen icons for things like copy files, etc?
[18:06] <rgreening> kwwii: in the usb creator, I have a progress bar, but it would be nice to have an icon for each step in the progress, like "install bootloader", "copying files", "Creating file system", "Making/formating filesystem", "Syncing media"...
[18:07] <rgreening> then I can remove the useless time remaining estimator text...
[18:07] <rgreening> :)
[18:10] <rgreening> kwwii: actually, that would be harder to implement by step... maybe one simple .mng to represent building a usb stick... like a puzzle or building blocks...
[18:10] <rgreening> thoughts?
[18:10] <rgreening> :)
[18:33] <kwwii> rgreening: until now we do not have any mng files in the theme
[18:33] <kwwii> actually, for whatever reason, everyone tries to avoid using them in desktops
[18:33] <rgreening> hmm.. ok
[18:33] <kwwii> rgreening: sounds like an interesting idea
[18:33] <rgreening> I was thinking it would look cool.
[18:34] <kwwii> yeah
[18:34] <rgreening> but not necessary... hows the usb icon coming. :P
[18:34] <kwwii> well, I started it ;)
[18:34] <kwwii> maybe I can finish it tomorrow
[18:34] <rgreening> :P
[18:49] <SiDi> heya mrooney ! when do you release wxbanker 0.6 ? :p
[18:53] <mrooney> SiDi: good question! :)
[18:53] <mrooney> I'm working on recurring transactions and online syncing with mint.com
[18:54] <mrooney> also tags are implemented by someone else so I'd like to merge that
[18:58] <SiDi> okies
[18:59] <tgpraveen> SiDi: what is wxbanker?
[19:00] <SiDi> tgpraveen: its an app mrooney develops
[19:08] <mrooney> tgpraveen: personal finance app
[19:10] <tgpraveen> k
[20:35] <macvr> beuno: hi... your thoughts on this> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/389133
[20:36] <SiDi> macvr: want mines ? (*grins*)
[20:37] <macvr> SiDi: you will always oppose me ... so no ;p
[20:37] <macvr> i doubt that one is a papercut
[20:38] <beuno> macvr, give me a few minutes, I'll take a peak
[20:38] <macvr> np
[20:38] <SiDi> macvr: i must say im 80% against this feature to be implemented
[20:38] <SiDi> most users dont user what kill'ing a proc means
[20:38] <SiDi> and its not so common that a proc refuses to end when asked to
[20:38] <macvr> SiDi: as i said no thoughts from you ;p
[20:39] <macvr> SiDi: but i had the same thoughts as you... :)
[20:39] <SiDi> but apart from the fact that it'd be a regression, its a perfectly valid papercut :D
[20:40] <SiDi> its true its not easy for the user to guess how to kill a proc that doesnt wanna end, but right clicking it is not so much harder to guess after having gone through the process of discovering the sysmonitor and finding the processes
[20:40] <SiDi> and windows users are _very_ used to the advanced options of ctrl+alt+suppr anyway </troll>
[20:40] <SiDi> macvr: should i be the bad guy on the bug report ?
[20:41] <macvr> Actually i dont mind ... its just that Rich has done the patch, didnt want to dissapoint him :)
[20:42] <SiDi> things that happen
[20:42] <SiDi> i began patching an app in a totally unknown language today because it was using actions
[20:42] <SiDi> (mail-notification throwing bad popups due to actions use without cap checking)
[20:43] <SiDi> and half-way to the process, i have a popup telling me i got a new mail for this report
[20:43] <SiDi> in which it is linked to a dupe with a complete patch.. :D
[20:43] <macvr> hehe