/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/02/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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ttxanyone around for the Java team meeting ?10:05
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evanrmurphyRicardoPerez: ¡Has llegado! :)15:52
RicardoPerezevanrmurphy: por poco... I've a great headache!15:52
=== adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 15.00 UTC - Ubuntu Translations Meeting
evanrmurphyRicardoPerez: Ugh, headaches are the worst. Sorry to hear that.15:53
evanrmurphyRicardoPerez: Perhaps we can discuss that issue early on in the meeting, then. Or we can always just drop an email to the ubuntu-translators mailing list, as you suggested from the beginning.15:55
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evanrmurphyI'd be happy to raise it myself except that unfortunately I'm not sure I'd be able to explain the problem clearly.15:57
RicardoPerezevanrmurphy: well, we can talk about the jaunty -> karmic translations dumping with adi & david...15:57
evanrmurphysounds good15:57
RicardoPerezI'll try it :)15:57
RicardoPerezwe'll try it *15:58
evanrmurphy:)15:59
dpmhi everybody!15:59
ArneGoetjehi folks!15:59
RicardoPerezdpm: hi ;)15:59
adiroibanola :)15:59
daniloshi guys :)15:59
evanrmurphymorning!15:59
RicardoPerezwell, hi and "hola" to everyone :)16:00
dpmhow are you all guys doing?16:00
henningeHallo!16:00
dpmbe very welcome to the first Ubuntu Translations meeting ever ;) !16:00
dpm\o/16:00
Quintasan\o16:01
RicardoPerezwe're history! :P16:01
=== adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 15.00 UTC - Ubuntu Translations Meeting - Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/Events/Meetings
* evanrmurphy does a slow clap16:01
dpmthanks Adi for taking care of the topic changes16:01
dpmwe've got the Launchpad Translations team and Arne Goetje with us, and hopefully a whole bunch of translators and folks interested in translating Ubuntu as well16:02
dpmI'm not sure how many of us are there, but I don't think there will be need for moderation16:02
dpmtherefore, please feel free to interrupt whenever you want to ask or comment anything16:03
danilosyeah, hello all from LP Translations team, here represented by henninge and me :)16:03
* dpm claps loudly16:03
henningeyeah, jtv went to bed already...16:03
henninge;-)16:03
evanrmurphyRicardoPerez, fmolinero and I are here representing the Ubuntu Spanish Translators.16:03
dpmgreat16:04
dpmfantástico16:04
evanrmurphy:)16:04
RicardoPerezhehe16:04
ArneGoetjeand for those who don't know me, I'm doing the technical stuff regarding language-pack building.16:04
RicardoPerezArneGoetje: great work!16:04
evanrmurphy+116:05
* dpm applauds Arne as well16:05
adiroibandpm: feel free to hit the first topic16:05
dpmok, shall we get started?16:05
dpm== Opening of Karmic translations ==16:06
adiroibanyep. so message sharing is up and running ?16:06
dpmThe LP Translations team is working very hard in opening the Karmic translations16:06
danilosok, I'll share more details16:07
danilosinternally, karmic translations are up and sharing with jaunty16:07
henningeyeah!16:07
ArneGoetje\o/16:08
daniloswe are currently in the process of importing all translations from packages into karmic before we can start producing karmic language packs and allow translations to happen16:08
RicardoPerezI wonder if a translation made in Jaunty now will be copied to Karmic16:08
dpmjust a sec, does everyone here knows what message sharing is?16:08
danilosthere are a lot of files to import (~35k, we've already done around 10k)16:08
* Quintasan raises his hand at dpm's question\\16:08
danilosRicardoPerez: that's what message sharing is all about: in short, they will be shared between different series (like Jaunty and Karmic)16:09
danilosRicardoPerez: so, as soon as you translate one string in Jaunty, if it's in Karmic, it will appear as translated there as well; and vice versa16:09
RicardoPerezdpm, danilos: oh, great! I don't know what message sharing is16:09
danilosRicardoPerez: heh, see above :)16:09
danilosyou can talk to me on #launchpad if you want more details afterwards16:10
dpmAnd this works both ways! I can translate the string in Jaunty and it will automatically appear translated in Karmic.16:10
RicardoPerezdanilos: so, if I translate a string in Jaunty, that translation will be copied in Karmic even several weeks ago since the Karmic translations opening?16:10
evanrmurphyI wasn't familiar either, but that sounds really efficient.16:10
dpmRicardoPerez: ^16:10
RicardoPerezI asked a question already answered :)16:10
danilosRicardoPerez: yes16:10
dpmAnd for the moment, sharing will only be enabled for Karmic and Jaunty16:11
RicardoPerezwell, that sounds really great16:11
fmolinerogreat16:11
evanrmurphyIs message sharing a new feature?16:11
danilosanyway, Jaunty and Karmic will initially be the only shared Ubuntu releases (and all future ones), but we'll slowly enable it for Intrepid and Hardy as well16:11
henningeevanrmurphy: yes16:11
dpmevanrmurphy: yes, starting with Karmic16:11
danilosevanrmurphy: yeah, it has not even been announced yet properly :)16:11
dpmThis will be announced in more detail in due time, but for Ubuntu translators the important thing to have in mind is that this feature will start being used for the first time in Karmic,16:11
evanrmurphyhow exciting!16:11
dpmso it is very important to get it tested throughout the development cycle, and if you see any bug in translations, you should report it soon16:12
danilosexactly!16:12
RicardoPerezis there a "lag" or latency between the string is translated into Jaunty and the translation being copied to Karmic?16:12
danilosanyway, back to the topic :)16:12
RicardoPerezoh, sorry about the offtopic16:12
danilosKarmic translations will be open sometime next week, as soon as imports are done16:12
dpm\o/16:13
henningeRicardoPerez: no lag, it is instant16:13
RicardoPerezhenninge: thanks! that's great16:13
daniloswhen that happens, we'll also start producing language pack tarballs which ArneGoetje will package for everybody to play with16:13
danilosare there any questions about Karmic opening, or shall we move on? :)16:14
dpmlet's move on then, we've got a long agenda :)16:14
RicardoPerezcongrats to the superb work16:14
dpm== Kubuntu translations ==16:14
dpmAfter what we talked at UDS, we've kickstarted the process of making Kubuntu translations ...16:14
dpm... well, rock!16:15
dpmWe're working with the Kubuntu devs to sort out some technical issues we've had with KDE translations and Launchpad Translations, and I'm pretty excited about the outcome.16:15
dpmFor those interested in the gory details, you can follow this thread later on -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-June/002964.html16:16
* ScottK is glad to see the progress.16:16
dpmThe first step is to make sure the translation templates we've got in Launchpad match those in KDE16:16
dpmso that Kubuntu users don't get untranslated applications as it's happened in the past16:17
evanrmurphyI'm glad to see progress here too, always feel like I have to tiptoe around KDE translations.16:17
dpmyes, we will welcome the help of anyone interested or experienced in Kubuntu/KDE translations16:18
dpmtranslators, devs, etc16:18
dpmfeel free to participate in the discussion on the kubuntu-devel@ list or at ubuntu-translators@16:19
dpmor to put any related items in the agenda for the next meeting16:19
dpmAlso we're also planning a Kubuntu Translations Day on #kubuntu-devel, which will probably be in about a month's time (final date to be announced).16:19
dpmany feedback will be welcome16:20
dpmAre there any particular issues/comments you'd like to discuss right now?16:21
dpmrelated to Kubuntu translations?16:21
adiroibanso right now arne is renaming and moving templates?16:21
ArneGoetjeyes16:21
danilosArneGoetje: for that to work better with message sharing, can you make sure you rename jaunty templates at the same time? or just provide us a list and we can do a bulk rename16:22
ArneGoetjedanilos: No, this is about the changes between Jaunty and Karmic. the templates in Jaunty have to stay like they are.16:22
adiroibanArneGoetje: If you need help with Kubuntu let me know and see how we can coordinate16:23
QuintasanThe deadline for translation is 15th of October?16:24
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: will do16:24
dpmQuintasan: the you can see the release schedule here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule16:24
dpmQuintasan: the two important deadlines are Oct 15th and Oct 22nd16:25
adiroibanfor the Karmic approval, should we start to work on them now, or wait until the translations are opened16:25
adiroiban?16:25
ArneGoetjeQuintasan: in general, we will build the final language-packs about one week before release. Everything what comes in later than that goes into the updates.16:25
* Quintasan starts preparation for translating then16:26
dpmArneGoetje: I think you might be best suited to answer Adi's question16:26
danilosadiroiban: I think ArneGoetje emailed utc team with that16:27
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: if you are talking about the approvals in the import queue, you can start now. However, be careful with KDE related templates. We need to check back with kubuntu-devel on what to do with them.16:27
dpmthanks Arne. Ok, shall we move on?16:28
adiroibanArneGoetje: I will not touch KDE for now, but I will handle the others (mainly help and man files)16:28
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: also, I want to review the oo.o templates with Chris Cheney, so better don't touch them either for now.16:29
adiroibanok16:29
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: help and man get blocked, we cannot handle them in language-packs.16:29
adiroibanyep, I know, and those are the easiest one to handle in the "needs review" list16:30
adiroibanfrom my point of view we can continue16:30
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: heh16:30
dpmok, thanks16:30
dpm== Language pack update policy ==16:30
dpmSomething else we talked about at UDS was about the regular language pack releases16:30
dpmfor stable releases16:31
dpmthey are usually uploaded to the -proposed repository16:31
dpmand then to -updates, where they are made available for all users16:31
dpmin order to move them from -proposed to -updates, we need some testing and feedback16:32
dpmin order to avoid crashes, regressions, etc16:32
danilos(to explain that further: "for stable releases" means after Karmic is released)16:32
dpmyes16:33
ArneGoetjealso for existing stable releases (Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty).16:33
RicardoPerezDapper, too?16:34
dpmIs Dapper still in Launchpad?16:34
evanrmurphyyep16:34
ArneGoetjeRicardoPerez: no, we don't provide language-pack updates for Dapper anymore, because noone tests them.16:34
danilosdpm: if it's supported, it is :)16:34
dpmah yes, I see it now16:35
RicardoPerezArneGoetje: ok16:35
adiroibanfor my point of view we can continue with the current policy and procees. Arne will announce on the Ubuntu Translators MP the new packages in proposed (maybe also a post on planet) and people will test and ping arne if everything is OK16:35
adiroibanor open bugs if there are problems16:35
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: unfortunately that hasn't worked well in the past. I didn't get any response at all.16:35
adiroibanArneGoetje: I know16:36
dpmadiroiban: yes, and that's what we were discussing in the UDS session16:36
adiroibanbut In that case we should not update that language16:36
danilosyeah, "if you do not sign off on a proposed language pack for your language, it will not be promoted"16:36
dpmI've started a (still very crude) page to document the process and to track signoffs from users/translators -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA16:37
ArneGoetje+116:37
RicardoPerezadiroiban: well, sometimes "no response" means "tested and nothing was wrong, so its good" :)16:37
adiroibanit will be hard to find people to test translations for LTS16:37
danilosRicardoPerez: that is fine for development releases16:37
evanrmurphyadiroiban: Why is that?16:37
adiroibanRicardoPerez: but may also imply that nobody had review it16:38
dpmadiroiban: yes, but we must start from somewhere and we can focus on stable releases first16:38
RicardoPerezadiroiban: yes, that's right, too16:38
dpman option might be to use virtual images for LTS16:38
dpmI mean for testing them16:38
adiroibanevanrmurphy: most translators are using stable or dev on their system... and is hard to install or test LTS16:38
* evanrmurphy nods16:39
dpmbut the point is that we should take a mora active approach to get signoffs for updates16:39
ArneGoetjeI think it's not a big deal to use Virtualbox or another VM and run a copy of Hardy, Intrepid or Jaunty in there and test the language-packs... I do that myself.16:39
adiroibanbut that would be just a very thin smoke test16:39
RicardoPerezthe Ubuntu Translators Teams could be a good starting point for langpack testing16:39
dpmyes, and I think if we only upload those packages which have been explicitly signed off will encourage other teams to provide signoffs as well16:40
adiroibanI consider a translation-update teste after testing it for at least one day of regular usage16:40
adiroibanlike starting firefox,  setting up pidgin, evolution16:40
danilosadiroiban: we should not strive for perfection right away16:41
adiroiban:)16:41
danilosadiroiban: but, if we can come up with a good checklist of things to check for, that will be more than enough16:41
dpmadiroiban: yes, that's something you can put in there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA16:41
adiroibanthen just put the packates into -updates and wait for bug report16:41
danilosadiroiban: sometimes translations cause security problems, and that's not something ubuntu developers want to allow16:42
danilosadiroiban: I somehow remember you being in a UDS session about this as well :)16:42
RicardoPerezif I (suppose) tested the proposed langpacks and see that they're good, how can I send my feedback and to whom?16:42
adiroibanbut a thin smoketest will not detect those security problems16:42
adiroibanand most translators testers are not the right person to do the security testing16:43
danilosadiroiban: others have caused some apps to be completely untranslated16:43
dpmRicardoPerez: we can track them in the wiki page above, you can just add your team to the list16:43
danilosadiroiban: it's mostly about testing for regressions in translations16:43
RicardoPerezdpm: sounds good16:43
dpmAnd each upload to -proposed will be notified to ubuntu-translators@16:43
dpmso that translators/users know when they can start testing16:44
RicardoPerezgreat, that's exactly what it must be done :)16:44
evanrmurphydpm: That will be helpful.16:44
dpmI know it's not a perfect process in which it is not very automated, but we can try to refine it as we go along16:44
adiroibanok. let's see if we can improve something16:45
evanrmurphyStrict signoffs make me nervous because it adds another hurdle to translation implementation.16:45
evanrmurphyBut QA is very important.16:45
adiroibanbut my view is that if we are only going to run some smoke test on translations, it's better to just copy them to -updates16:45
adiroibanas the smoke test will not be of much help16:45
dpmevanrmurphy: yes, but crashes and untranslated apps are annoying for users (to say the least)16:45
RicardoPerezregression issues for me are the worst, and I always take a deep look about that after a new langpacks update16:45
danilosadiroiban: well, translation updates can cause crashes as well, those can easily be detected by a quick test16:45
ScottKEnough people run with -proposed enabled that even without formal testing you'll get some signficant benifit.16:46
dpmScottK: yes, but we have to somehow know that people are using -updates16:46
ArneGoetjeadiroiban: no. in the past we had cases where the -proposed packages had a bug that caused firefox end up untranslated. We don't want to have those in -updates.16:46
evanrmurphyRicardoPerez: That's good to know!16:46
adiroibanMaybe, rather that ask translators to test proposed, we should ask for using the weekly lang-packs16:47
RicardoPereza weak test is better than no test at all16:47
adiroibanin this way we can detect errors earliers16:47
adiroibanearly16:47
RicardoPerez+1 for the weekly langpacks16:47
danilosadiroiban: that's orthogonal to that... using weekly builds is recommended for any active translators16:48
dpmadiroiban: yes, we can do this additionally as well16:48
RicardoPerezweekly langpacks has been very useful in the past16:48
adiroibanI'm using the weekly builds for the current stable release16:48
danilosadiroiban: but, if there's no actual input, how do you know that someone is using them, and they haven't said anything, or that nobody is using them?16:48
danilosanyway, this is a topic that can be rehashed a bit more16:49
adiroibanok16:49
daniloslet's talk about it some more next week, and move on to Ubuntu Translations Project16:49
adiroibanwe can continue on the mailing list16:49
dpmyes16:49
RicardoPerezis there a jaunty weekly langpacks=16:49
RicardoPerez?16:49
adiroibanit should16:49
danilosadiroiban: next topic is yours :)16:49
dpmRicardo: yes16:49
dpm== Ubuntu Translations Project (AdiRoiban) ==16:49
adiroiban:)16:49
adiroibanis ours :)16:50
adiroibanok16:50
ArneGoetjeok, about bug reporting: I think it's best to *not* report bugs abainst the language-packs themselves (too many of them!), but rather open a bug in the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.16:50
adiroibanI agree16:50
adiroibanso we have Ubuntu Translation as a hub for all l10n/i18n issues16:51
ArneGoetjeyes16:51
RicardoPerezI would like to point about the many many i18n bugreports I opened in the past16:51
adiroibanand also to leverage Rosetta of Ubuntu problems16:51
ArneGoetjeRicardoPerez: against which packages?16:51
evanrmurphyArneGoetje: Where is the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker? It's not this (https://launchpad.net/utbb), is it?16:51
RicardoPerezmany times a i18n issue is marked as a "low" priority16:51
ArneGoetjeevanrmurphy: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations16:52
RicardoPerezArneGoetje: I always posted i18n bugreports against the "problematic" apps16:52
danilosRicardoPerez: that's why there's a team and a project now to better coordinate that and poke other developers :)16:52
RicardoPereznot against the langpack itself16:52
danilosRicardoPerez: i18n bugs are bugs in applications, you should just tag them with i18n and file them against applications16:52
RicardoPerezdanilos: that sounds great!16:52
ArneGoetjeRicardoPerez: if you file them against each individual pkg, then I most likely won't see them...16:53
RicardoPerezdanilos: that's right, that's the way I use16:53
danilosArneGoetje: oh, sorry, I may have misunderstood the idea behind ubuntu-translations project16:53
RicardoPerezArneGoetje: that's right... so what should be the process when I want to post a i18n bugrepot?16:54
danilosRicardoPerez: the problem is with notifications: there is no way to subscribe to a tag in Launchpad bugs, so that's probably why ArneGoetje wants bugs filed against this new project16:54
ArneGoetjedanilos: well, if it's really a bug in the app, then that's ok. But if it is a bug with translations, then please use the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.16:54
adiroibanyes. the big problem is with tag notification16:54
RicardoPerezoh, great... so I should post the bugreport against the app and the new project itself, doesn't it?16:54
danilosRicardoPerez: you can just add a bugtask against the project as well16:55
adiroibanRicardoPerez: or just add "ubuntu-translations" in "Also affected" field16:55
ArneGoetjeRicardoPerez: yes, that would be better. just add the project. Then we will know there is something going on.16:55
dpmcan't we do both? Assign it to the app, tag it and assign it to ubuntu-translations16:55
dpmoops, sorrz, alreadz answered16:55
ArneGoetjedpm: yes16:55
adiroibanso we have Ubuntu Translation as a central hub for i18n/l10n issues16:55
RicardoPerezgreat... all the three at the same time :)16:55
adiroibanand try to work arround Launchpad limitations16:56
* ArneGoetje grins16:56
RicardoPerezwhat's the Ubuntu Translation project name in Launchpad?16:56
RicardoPerezI can't find it16:56
henningeuntuntu-translatoins16:57
henningeuntuntu-translations16:57
danilosRicardoPerez: quoted above, "ubuntu-translations"16:57
dpmhttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations16:57
RicardoPerezoh, great, I mean "ubuntu-translation"16:57
adiroibanbeside filling bugs16:58
adiroibanwe should also handle bug triage16:58
RicardoPerezI think we should comment the above bugfilling process in the ubuntu-translators @16:58
RicardoPerezso anybody knows16:58
adiroibanI can take some time and write a wikipage about bug reporting and bug triage16:59
ArneGoetjeRicardoPerez: yes, will do16:59
dpmI agree, we should announce it and promote it more16:59
evanrmurphyI agree as well.16:59
adiroibanbut beside translators, developers and people from 5aDay should be aware of it16:59
dpmgood point16:59
RicardoPerezcan we do anything about the "low priority by default" problem in the i18n bugreports?16:59
adiroibanRicardoPerez: i don't think so17:00
adiroibanjust try to persuate developers to incerease the bug...17:00
RicardoPerezthat's a pity, because not always a i18n issue should be considered a low priority one...17:00
danilosdpm, adiroiban, ArneGoetje: it should also go to a Ubuntu translation instructions as linked from all the translate pages on Launchpad17:00
dpmdanilos: yes, it should be documented17:01
danilosRicardoPerez: sometimes you can push them upstream and have them fixed there17:01
adiroibandanilos: where is that? :)17:01
Spike1506com&17:01
RicardoPerezdanilos: that's right. I needed to do that in the past sometimes17:01
dpmanyway, we're running late. I propose to leave it here and move the topis left to the next meeting in two weeks time17:02
adiroibanok17:02
RicardoPerezgreat17:02
dpmthank you all for the great discussion17:02
adiroibanjust a small comment, I think we should continue the discussion on the ML17:02
adiroibanand not leave them until next meeting17:02
dpmadiroiban: of course, feel free to do that as well17:02
adiroibanright now I don't see to much activity on the translators mailinglist17:02
adiroiban:)17:03
evanrmurphydon't forget we have #ubuntu-translators as well17:03
evanrmurphydiscussion can be had there and then copied to the ML17:03
adiroibanok17:03
dpmok, shall we leave it here then?17:03
RicardoPerezubuntu-translators/ubuntu-translations...17:03
RicardoPerezok17:03
evanrmurphyGreat talking with all of you today, turns out we have a pretty lively group!17:04
dpmcool17:04
* henninge bounces around lively ...17:04
=== adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 16.00 UTC - Ubuntu Mobile Meeting
dpmthank you all!17:04
ArneGoetjethanks17:04
RicardoPerezthanks to everybody!17:04
henningedpm, adiroiban: thanks!17:04
adiroibanyep. looking forward for reading you :)17:04
evanrmurphyhenninge: lol17:04
evanrmurphyThanks all!17:04
evanrmurphyCan we dedicate a section of the wiki to copies of these meeing logs?17:05
evanrmurphys/meeing/meeting/17:05
dpmsure, I'll take care of that17:05
evanrmurphydpm: awesome!17:06
RicardoPerezsee you!17:07
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Ddordadid the translators meeting has over?19:47
RoAkSoAxDdorda, yes, long time ago19:48
Ddorda=\ how sad.. i juts had no idea when it is..19:48
Ddordawhere can i see the logging?19:48
Ddordaoh.. nvrm :P19:49
nhandlerDdorda: Try irclogs.ubuntu.com19:49
Ddordait's in the topic19:49
ograwhat does 16:00 UTC do in the topic ?19:50
=== ogra changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
* ogra fixes19:51
Ddordathere were only 3 people on the meeting?19:52
Ddordathat very bad =\ most of the translators didn't even knew about it...19:53
Ddordais there any rss for the news, that i'll can be announced next time?19:53
ograhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar19:53
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NCommander#startmeeting22:00
MootBotMeeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.22:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]22:00
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009070222:00
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NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap22:00
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NCommanderwho's here?22:00
paulliuHi22:01
plarsme22:01
loolhey22:01
NCommanderhola lool22:01
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davidmHI NCommander22:02
NCommanderhey davidm22:02
ogradont you take the stick with the tip !22:02
loolGrueMaster, dyfet  poke22:02
loolNo stevenk22:02
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ograheh22:02
GrueMasterPoke back at you.22:02
NCommanderI'll give it another minute22:02
mcasadevallbah22:04
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NCommanderThere22:05
* NCommander face palms22:05
NCommanderMy laptop isn't quite dead it seems ...22:05
NCommanderhi StevenK22:05
NCommanderSo who else isn't here?22:05
* StevenK shores22:06
* NCommander didn't know shores was a verb22:06
NCommanderOk22:06
NCommanderanyway22:06
NCommander[topic] Action Item Review22:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review22:06
ograNCommander, en_AU22:06
NCommander[topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)22:07
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)22:07
NCommanderc/o yet again22:07
ubottuUbuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]22:07
NCommander[topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/33780922:07
MootBotNew Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/33780922:07
ubottuUbuntu bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]22:07
GrueMasterditto22:07
NCommander[topic] # StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week22:07
MootBotNew Topic:  # StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week22:07
loolWe had a meeting about this with kyleN22:07
loolIt clarified how we'll handle translations22:08
loolkyleN wants to have translations in the upstream project but by the Ubuntu translators22:08
loolHe's discussing that with them22:08
looland he will complete the spec22:08
loolStevenK: Anything else?22:08
StevenKSo we're waiting for him22:08
StevenKWe should have more information about it next meeting, so please carry it over22:09
NCommander[action] StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week22:09
MootBotACTION received:  StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week22:09
=== plars_ is now known as plars
* NCommander kicks the wiki22:09
NCommander[topic] plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting22:10
MootBotNew Topic:  plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting22:10
plarsdrafted, yes, implemented - in progress22:10
loolNCommander: Didn't we skip a couple of action items?22:10
NCommanderlool, those should be under spec review22:10
loolWhich looked confusing, but still22:10
loolHmm ok22:10
NCommanderlool, I think I accidently c/p'ed part of the minutes when I made the AR list22:10
* ogra would like an agenda link too :)22:11
loolDropped from action items22:11
NCommanderhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009070222:11
NCommanderthanks lool22:11
NCommanderSorry about that folks22:11
NCommanderOk22:11
NCommander[topic] New Meeting Time Revote22:11
MootBotNew Topic:  New Meeting Time Revote22:11
NCommander[topic] New meeting day only22:12
MootBotNew Topic:  New meeting day only22:12
NCommanderI've heard candidates for both Thursday and Tuesday22:12
NCommanderAnyone want to put forth anything new?22:12
davidmAny reason why not Wednesday?22:12
davidmJust wondering22:12
StevenKWhich ends up being Thursday for me.22:13
loolI personally would like to keep a day between IRC and phone meetings to avoid stupid combinations22:13
* StevenK hides22:13
NCommanderdavidm, no one suggested it ;-)22:13
NCommanderWe could just vote on each day of the week ;-)22:13
NCommanderAlright22:13
NCommander[vote] Keep the meetings on Thursday22:13
MootBotPlease vote on:  Keep the meetings on Thursday.22:13
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:13
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:13
ograon wed the meeting channel is quite empty22:13
lool(I think Friday and Monday are preferably avoided due our timezone coverage_22:13
plarsare we assuming that it would be at the same time?22:13
davidm-122:13
MootBot-1 received from davidm. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -122:13
ogratue is usually pretty full22:14
lool-122:14
MootBot-1 received from lool. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -222:14
NCommanderplars, we're voting for the time and day separatel22:14
GrueMaster+122:14
MootBot+1 received from GrueMaster. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -122:14
NCommander+122:14
MootBot+1 received from NCommander. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 022:14
paulliu+022:14
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 022:14
StevenK022:14
ogra-122:14
MootBot-1 received from ogra. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -122:14
StevenK+022:14
MootBotAbstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -122:14
plarsvote +022:14
loologra: We can find another place, that's ok22:14
plars+022:14
MootBotAbstention received from plars. 2 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -122:14
NCommanderplars, do +0, +1, or -122:14
NCommanderSteveA, the bot didn't get you22:14
NCommanderer, StevenK22:14
NCommanderand my laptop's filesystem just did a bunk22:14
* ogra would rather stay wthin the ubuntu meetin conventions22:14
StevenK[07:14] < MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK.22:14
plarsno, it got stevek though22:14
NCommanderoh, ok22:15
lool9 votes22:15
NCommander[endvote]22:15
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 3 against. 3 abstained. Total: -122:15
NCommanderoh wow22:15
NCommandermy /home on my laptop broke fsck ...22:15
GrueMasterOk, so not Thursday.  Vote for Tuesday?22:15
NCommander[vote] Wednesday's for meeting day22:16
MootBotPlease vote on:  Wednesday's for meeting day.22:16
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:16
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:16
ogradoit22:16
NCommander+122:16
plarsare we assuming you can vote in any/all of these?22:16
MootBot+1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:16
lool-122:16
MootBot-1 received from lool. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 022:16
ogra+122:16
NCommanderplars, yeah22:16
MootBot+1 received from ogra. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:16
StevenK+022:16
paulliu+022:16
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 122:16
MootBotAbstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 122:16
plars+122:16
MootBot+1 received from plars. 3 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 222:16
GrueMaster+022:16
MootBotAbstention received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 222:16
NCommanderso who else hasn't voted?22:17
davidm+122:17
MootBot+1 received from davidm. 4 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 322:17
dyfet_+122:17
MootBot+1 received from dyfet_. 5 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 422:17
NCommanderThat's 922:17
NCommander[endvote]22:17
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 422:17
NCommander[vote] Moving the meetings to Tuesdays22:17
MootBotPlease vote on:  Moving the meetings to Tuesdays.22:17
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:17
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:17
StevenK+122:17
MootBot+1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:17
* ogra would like to hear why lool was against22:17
lool+122:17
MootBot+1 received from lool. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:17
paulliu+022:17
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 222:17
NCommander-122:17
MootBot-1 received from NCommander. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 122:17
ogra+122:17
MootBot+1 received from ogra. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 222:17
davidm+022:17
MootBotAbstention received from davidm. 3 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 222:17
plarsoh22:17
plarsI thought we just voted on tuesday22:17
plarsdarn22:17
plars+122:18
MootBot+1 received from plars. 4 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 322:18
loolplars: Were you in favor or against Wed or didn't care?22:18
GrueMaster+122:18
MootBot+1 received from GrueMaster. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 422:18
NCommanderWho didn't vote?22:18
dyfet_+122:19
MootBot+1 received from dyfet_. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 522:19
plarslool: I was against wednesday, I had seen GrueMaster suggesting to vote for tuesday and thought that's what we were voting on22:19
loolNCommander: endvote?22:19
lool9 votes22:19
GrueMasterplars: doesn't matter.  Tuesday beat Wednessday, 6-5.22:20
GrueMasterOr 5-422:20
davidmI think Tuesday beat Wednesday22:20
NCommander[endvote]22:20
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 522:20
NCommanderI'm against Tuesday because it means we need to move the time or move the place22:20
lool[agreed] Moving meetings to Tuesday22:20
davidmWell Tuesday just became the day22:20
StevenKWe could move the IRC meeting forward a few hours. That would work for me. :-P22:21
loolNCommander: It's not terribly hard, we can have them on #ubuntu-mobile or mobile-meeting22:21
davidmNow the time22:21
NCommander[action] New meeting day to become Tuesday22:21
MootBotACTION received:  New meeting day to become Tuesday22:21
NCommander[topic] New meeting time22:21
MootBotNew Topic:  New meeting time22:21
NCommanderCandidates: Current Time22:21
NCommanderPlease uggest any other ones you may wish22:22
davidmProblem is we span from OZ to the West coast of the US22:22
NCommanderdavidm, the issue at the moment is on tuesdays we bump up against other meets22:22
GrueMasterNCommander: What times are available Tuesdays?22:22
ogranot many22:22
GrueMasterMaybe that would make things easier.22:22
ograthere are a lot rotating meetings22:23
ograhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar22:23
loolI think we should pick the best time(s) and decide of the location afterwards22:23
MootBotLINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar22:23
=== plars_ is now known as plars
loolIt doesn't matter not to use #ubuntu-meeting22:23
NCommander[idea] 22:00 UTC22:23
MootBotIDEA received:  22:00 UTC22:23
* ogra thinks it does22:23
loolIt's late22:23
NCommanderNot a huge fan, but it does move the meetings out of the way22:24
loologra: what for?22:24
ografor predictability22:24
ografor being in sync with all the other teams22:24
loologra: So we will stick with the new place22:24
StevenKIE, 22:00 UTC is in 35 minutes22:24
ograthats 00:00 here22:25
davidmThanks StevenK22:25
ogra(and in france)22:25
loolWe're using different chans all the time I don't see a big deal with using a different chan for meetings22:25
davidmThat is a bit late22:25
loolI don't mind midnight if we rotate22:25
GrueMasterlool: some community members may need to be in other meetings.22:25
davidmwhat about 20:00?22:25
ograyeah22:25
loolGrueMaster: They can raise their voice and be heard now or bring it up if it affects them22:26
loolGrueMaster: anybody in particular?22:26
davidmcan we find two different times that work and rotate?22:26
NCommandermaybe we should vote on place before time22:26
GrueMasternone that I personally know of.22:26
StevenKUgh, I don't like 20:0022:26
plarsNCommander: I think one implies the other22:28
lool20 UTC is ugly for StevenK and paulliu22:28
NCommanderI'm going to put using #ubuntu-meeting to a vote, just because if we decide not to, then the time question is at least easier22:28
paulliuYeah, but I'm ok.22:28
NCommanderany objections?22:28
loolYeah, I think it's not the right thing to do22:29
paulliuSince it's impossible to make everyone happy. Just vote.22:29
loolPicking a time affects us all strongly, picking a place not at all22:29
davidmOK we need a time[s] make it ugly for paulliu and Stevenk one month/week and ugly for GrueMaster  at the other perhaps22:29
lool+1 for davidm22:29
NCommanderlool, the place question at least frees up times that we wouldn't have this room available22:29
* GrueMaster is already ugly. time won't matter.22:29
loolNCommander: It does not, it puts the important topic between a rock and a hard place22:30
ogracould we vonte on moving GrueMaster to .au ?22:30
davidmNCommander, from my point of view where does not matter time effects people far more22:30
GrueMaster+1022:30
ogra:)22:30
StevenKHaha22:30
NCommanderHow about just moving the Mobile team to a single timezone22:30
StevenKHow about Cairns, Queensland?22:30
* StevenK waits for davidm to vote +10000000022:30
loolWhat about current time, or current time minus 12 hours22:30
davidmI suggested that we need the join the flat earth sociality22:30
loolOne week out of two, or one month22:31
davidmI like Cairns22:31
davidmA LOT22:31
ogradavidm, ++++++22:31
NCommanderPreferably Alaskian time zone. :-)22:31
ogra(on discworld)22:31
paulliuNorth pole?? There's no time.22:31
NCommanderoh come on22:31
NCommanderI can't be the only one who wants to move to alaska22:32
ograand not much distraction22:32
GrueMasterWe need a ringworld.  Get the foundations team on it.22:32
NCommanderOk then22:32
NCommander[vote] Keeping the meeting time as is22:32
MootBotPlease vote on:  Keeping the meeting time as is.22:32
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:32
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:32
lool+022:32
MootBotAbstention received from lool. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 022:32
ogra+022:32
MootBotAbstention received from ogra. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 022:32
paulliu+022:32
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 022:32
MootBotPrivate abstention received. 0 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Count is now 022:32
davidm12:00 would be one time that would shift towards putting GrueMaster in a bad time22:32
StevenK+022:33
MootBotAbstention received from StevenK. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 022:33
plars+122:33
MootBot+1 received from plars. 1 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 122:33
looldavidm: I proposed earlier 10pm UTC and 10am UTC, rotating22:33
GrueMaster022:33
GrueMaster+022:33
ograwho was that private Abstention ?22:33
MootBotAbstention received from GrueMaster. 1 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 122:33
loolThat's very early for east coast at 10am UTC22:33
NCommanderogra, doesn't that defeat the point of a private abstention?22:34
ograheh, ok22:34
looland late west coast22:34
davidm12:00 and 21:00 is a not bad pair22:34
ajmitchogra: wasn't me! :)22:34
* NCommander thinks he lost his /home22:34
ograNCommander, but you can easily guess by looking who voted :P22:34
davidmI have not voted22:34
GrueMasterHey, it's summer time.  Nothing on TV anyways.22:34
davidm+022:34
MootBotAbstention received from davidm. 1 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 122:34
dyfet_+022:34
MootBotAbstention received from dyfet_. 1 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 122:34
davidmI just don't care22:34
NCommander[endvote]22:34
MootBotFinal result is 1 for, 0 against. 8 abstained. Total: 122:34
plarsit seems like 13:00 wouldn't be *too* horrible, there are a few that are slightly early/late, but no midnight or 3:00 AM type problems that I can see22:35
StevenKHaha, 8 abstentions.22:35
NCommanderOk22:35
NCommander[vote] 20:00 UTC22:35
MootBotPlease vote on:  20:00 UTC.22:35
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:35
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:35
NCommander+022:35
MootBotAbstention received from NCommander. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 022:35
plars+122:35
MootBot+1 received from plars. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 122:35
paulliu+022:35
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 122:35
ogra22:35
ograbah22:35
plarshah22:35
ogra+022:35
MootBotAbstention received from ogra. 1 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 122:35
StevenK-122:35
MootBot-1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 022:36
lool+122:36
MootBot+1 received from lool. 2 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 122:36
dyfet_+022:36
MootBotAbstention received from dyfet_. 2 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 122:36
GrueMaster+022:36
MootBotAbstention received from GrueMaster. 2 for, 1 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 122:36
GrueMasterDk22:36
davidm+022:36
MootBotAbstention received from davidm. 2 for, 1 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 122:36
GrueMasterer, DC22:36
davidmYes 13:00 UTC is not too bad22:36
NCommander[endvote]22:36
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 1 against. 6 abstained. Total: 122:36
NCommander[vote] 13:00UTC22:36
MootBotPlease vote on:  13:00UTC.22:36
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:36
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:36
davidmor rotating 13:00 21:;0022:36
StevenK+122:37
MootBot+1 received from StevenK. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:37
davidm+122:37
MootBot+1 received from davidm. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:37
plars+022:37
MootBotAbstention received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 222:37
ogra+122:37
MootBot+1 received from ogra. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 322:37
lool+122:37
MootBot+1 received from lool. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 422:37
GrueMaster+022:37
MootBotAbstention received from GrueMaster. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 422:37
paulliu+122:37
MootBot+1 received from paulliu. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 522:37
dyfet_+122:37
MootBot+1 received from dyfet_. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 622:37
NCommander+022:37
MootBotAbstention received from NCommander. 6 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 622:37
ograwould put us right before the TB meeting if we stayed here22:37
NCommanderogra, we'd never have another two hour meeting again22:38
ogra(every second week at least)22:38
ograyeah22:38
ogranot a bad idea :)22:38
StevenKSo we need to finish on time, or the TB will revoke us22:38
NCommanderThat sucks :-P22:38
plarsright, a good reason to keep the meeting to a reasonable length22:38
looldavidm: We'd have to move our weekly call but that's minor22:38
davidmlool, true22:38
StevenKlool: Why, the IRC meeting would be Tuesday22:38
loolStevenK: I'm speaking of the one to one22:39
StevenKOh22:39
NCommander[endvote]22:39
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 622:39
NCommander[vote] 13:00/21:00 rotating weekly22:39
MootBotPlease vote on:  13:00/21:00 rotating weekly.22:39
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:39
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:39
NCommander+122:39
MootBot+1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:39
StevenK+922:39
StevenKEr22:39
plars+122:39
MootBot+1 received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
StevenK+022:39
MootBotAbstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
paulliu+022:39
MootBotAbstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
lool+022:39
MootBotAbstention received from lool. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
plarserr22:39
davidm+122:39
ogra+022:39
plarswait... WEEKLY?22:39
MootBotAbstention received from ogra. 2 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 222:39
MootBot+1 received from davidm. 3 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 322:39
davidmplars, rotating22:39
davidmwe did not set the interval22:40
plarsok22:40
NCommanderWe can vote for other intervals if need be ;-)22:40
dyfet_+022:40
MootBotAbstention received from dyfet_. 3 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 322:40
StevenKdavidm: NCommander did set the interval for the vote22:40
* plars is +1 for rotating, -1 for weekly22:40
ograplars nah, two meetings every tue. indeed so we get to our 2h :P22:40
GrueMaster+022:40
MootBotAbstention received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 322:40
davidmOh my bad22:40
NCommander[endvote]22:40
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 322:40
davidmso he did22:40
* NCommander whistles22:41
NCommanderso um22:41
NCommanderDo we need another vote?22:41
StevenKHell no22:41
loolI think 13 UTC had quite some success22:41
davidmYes22:41
plarsvote on whether we need another vote?22:41
davidmha22:41
NCommanderIsn't that where we had it WAY back in the day?22:42
loolplars: One another vote or two rotating votes?22:42
* davidm thinks we are going vote crazy22:42
StevenKWe have just spent 30 minutes voting. Enough!22:42
NCommanderI rmemeber getting up at 8 or 9 am for voting22:42
plarsdavidm: you should have seen it last week22:42
* ogra wants to vote if thats already enough !22:42
loolStevenK: Ah thanks, I didn't want to rant about it myself :)22:42
ajmitchStevenK: as an outsider, it's mildly entertaining22:43
* GrueMaster is tired of voting22:43
StevenKlool: :-D22:43
NCommanderStevenK, I'm not, this is the one place where my vote means somethng22:43
StevenK[vote] Pointless vote to keep NCommander happy22:43
MootBotStevenK, Only the meeting chair can do that22:43
StevenKBite me, MootBot22:44
* StevenK smirks22:44
NCommander/ [vote] to annoy StevenK22:44
NCommanderOk22:44
NCommander[topic] Specification Review22:44
MootBotNew Topic:  Specification Review22:44
NCommander(finally)22:44
NCommander[topic] mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain22:45
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain22:45
ogravote on specs ?22:45
loolhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all22:45
loolmobile-karmic-armel-toolchain: nothing new to report22:45
NCommanderlool, launchpad just hated me22:45
loolwaiting on adam22:45
loolpaulliu:    mobile-unr-karmic-connman?22:45
StevenKogra: Oh, meh!22:45
NCommander[topic] mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paulliu)22:45
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paulliu)22:45
NCommanderI feel uspred22:46
paulliuI view the source code of connman.22:46
loolpaulliu: Blocked on anything?22:46
paulliuAnd I found that the NetworkManager compatible methods are few. Only 3.22:46
loolwow22:46
ogradavidm, can you assign the cdimage thing to me so it shows up on the list ?22:46
NCommanderow22:46
paulliuIs the action item to implement it?22:46
loolpaulliu: We should check whether what we ship works well enough with it22:46
davidmogra, I will do so now22:47
loolpaulliu: I think we should discuss that offline with QA folks22:47
ogradavidm, thanks22:47
plarsogra: I think canonical-mobile has to be subscribed for it to be on the list22:47
paulliuIt works good for users.22:47
loolpaulliu: Gathering a list of apps which use NM's dbus API and checking whether they work with connman22:47
looland then feeding that to QA to ensure they are on the radar22:47
ograplars, it shows up if a team member is assigned i think22:47
paulliuConnman itself works good. Small and fast, stable.22:48
loolplars, ogra: any of sub-ed assigned etc. is enough22:48
NCommander[topic] karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra & NCommander(?))22:48
MootBotNew Topic:  karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra & NCommander(?))22:48
ograin the works22:48
paulliuJust not good to use by other apps. Like Epiphany, due to lack of methods, it starts with off-line mode.22:48
ograjust hunting mono ftbfs down22:48
loolpaulliu: What matters is all apps in the UNR seed work with connman22:49
NCommanderogra, did we decide if we're going to switch the assignee?22:49
ograNCommander, no, we'll do that on the fly in case amit cant send the board back22:49
* GrueMaster hates when two topics are going at the same time.22:49
davidmI think you will have to rin connman in compatibility mode22:49
ograNCommander, i'm supposed to have the other board in time so we are able to flip if needed22:49
davidmAt least that is what tony espy has said22:50
paulliudavidm: yes, it's in compatible mode.22:50
ograha, i can assign myself to a spec :)22:50
NCommander[topic] karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)22:50
MootBotNew Topic:  karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)22:50
davidmAh OK22:50
NCommanderNo progress, needs hardware22:50
NCommander[topic] mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)22:50
looldavidm: The compat features aren't enough, they don't cover what all apps need22:50
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)22:50
ograNCommander, reload the speclist so you'll find one more22:50
looldavidm: What matters is that UNR apps are working with connman though22:50
davidm true for now22:50
plarsstarted, have an overview testplan up22:51
NCommanderfound22:51
plars[link] http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/ARM22:51
NCommander[topic] mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd (ogra)22:51
MootBotLINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/ARM22:51
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd (ogra)22:51
ogra:)22:51
ogradrafting, will be written by monday latest22:51
ograits very high prio22:51
ograsince marvell and freescale desktop both depend on it22:52
loolNCommander: That one isn't on the list?22:52
ogra(at least the images for these)22:52
NCommanderlool, refresh22:52
ogralool, reload22:52
ograjust added it22:52
loolAh22:52
NCommanderogra, do you except any difficulty in implementation?22:52
ograi never except difficulies *g*22:52
loolMarking as drafting then22:53
loologra: no wiki page?22:53
ograbut i dont expect any either22:53
NCommanderer, oop22:53
NCommander*oops22:53
ogralool, no, i'm writing it22:53
NCommanderogra, cool22:53
loolShould the ARM desktops depend on this spec?22:53
ogralool, will just be a copy of what we do with ps322:53
ogralool, if we dont have separate image specs for them, yes22:53
NCommanderWait22:54
NCommanderWon't we need separate squashfs's for the images22:54
NCommanderwait, nm22:54
ograno22:54
NCommanderYeah22:54
NCommanderJust realized that was a dense question22:54
ograonly bootloader and kernel22:54
NCommander[topic] mobile-qa-karmic-unr  (plars)22:54
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-unr  (plars)22:54
loolWhat about modules from the kernel?22:54
ograhrm22:54
plarswill be starting shortly, doing some research into what might change for this cycle22:55
ogradamned, do you always need to point out the obvious i missed22:55
StevenKplars: Start drafting, or implemnting?22:55
loologra: I think we need a dependency between the marvell and fsl images22:55
looland this new spec22:55
plarsStevenK: implementing, it's already drafted22:55
StevenKogra: Different kernel implies different squashfs22:55
loolBecause currently the FSL image is armel22:55
ogralool, i'll try to find an idea for that modules stuff in the spec, else we'll need two squashfses22:55
ogralool, it will become ubuntu-9.04-desktop-armel+iMX51.img22:56
loologra: By default, different subarches mean different squashfses22:56
NCommanderWe use two different squashfs's for powerpc and powerpc+ps3 last time I checked22:56
loolYes22:56
NCommanderogra, iMX51 vs. imx51?22:56
NCommanderthe caps are ugly :-/22:56
lool?22:56
StevenKNCommander: Two different systems ...22:56
ograNCommander, doesnt matter22:56
StevenKThe cdimage system is ... fun22:56
loolit's all lowercased, we don't need to discuss that22:56
ogracan also be imx51 i dont care22:56
NCommanderStevenK, I know, I've run it :-P22:56
* StevenK just uses antimony, it's more fun22:57
NCommanderStevenK, the PS3 port requires kboot to get everything working, its a load of fun.22:57
* GrueMaster has completely lost track of the current topic (again).22:57
ograyeah22:57
ograand more complex22:57
StevenKI knew there was a reason I ignored the PS322:57
loologra: I'm a bit sceptical of filing a specs for that, it's tightened with the FSL and the marvell stuff IMO22:57
NCommanderStevenK, and posioness22:57
ogralool, right, the debian-cd one should suffice22:57
plarsGrueMaster: current topic was mobile-karmic-qa-unr (and is done I think) but we're still dealing with spillover from the previous one22:58
StevenKGrueMaster: lool and ogra are still talking about the debian-cd armel spec22:58
loolIt would have been nice to discuss this spec calmly if it impacts the two other specs22:58
ogralool, though i'd like to overcome the need for separate squashfses just for modules, but thats karmic+122:58
loolWe're stressed with time trying to cover all specs, and we discover that one new one is superseding two others22:58
StevenKlool, ogra: Can you two discuss this offline, we're at 58 minutes ?22:58
ogralool, want to review it once i've written it up22:58
ograStevenK, ++22:58
loologra: Aboslutely, was about to offer that22:59
ograoki22:59
StevenKNCommander: Next!22:59
NCommanderI take it no one wants this to run over?22:59
ogrago go go22:59
StevenKNot really22:59
davidmiMX51 is correct22:59
NCommander[topic] mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management (ogra)22:59
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management (ogra)22:59
StevenKdavidm: But iMX51 looks ugly22:59
NCommander+1 StevenK22:59
NCommanderimx51 looks nice23:00
davidmStevenK, true but I did not name the SoC Freescale did23:00
ogradiscussed it a bit with lool today .... and beyond that not sure we need to keep it in case we get commitment from FSL for u-boot23:00
loolThe name of the kernel flavour is imx51 and subarches are lowercased and this is a bikeshed discussion23:00
NCommanderWe are almost to the point of having a new redboot in archive23:00
StevenKI want the bikeshed blue23:00
NCommander(yay backups of /home)23:00
NCommanderI want the bikeshed dark green :-P23:01
ograNCommander, but also u-boot ... though in unknown support state23:01
NCommanderWell23:01
ograand known bad quality23:01
NCommanderWe have an interesting problem with that as I will bring up at the end of the meeting23:01
NCommander[topic] mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader23:01
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader23:01
NCommanderIt's semi-packaged23:02
ograhow does that work without kexec support ?23:02
NCommanderogra, works great on ia6423:02
* NCommander runs23:02
ograyou noticed there is an arm in the name ? :)23:02
StevenKWow, so it's better than the kernel?23:02
NCommanderStevenK, yeah23:03
ogramove or say something23:03
NCommanderBut I've run into ... unforeseen difficulties with kexecboot, I need to discuss with upstream, and I hope to grab lool next week to go over it. I don't expect too much progress in the coming week though w/ work to add FSL23:03
NCommanderogra, :-P23:03
loolDon't expect to grab me before a week though23:04
NCommander[topic]mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting23:04
MootBotNew Topic: mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting23:04
NCommanderlool, its low priority so whenever you get a chance23:04
NCommander^- plars23:04
plarsI have a list of apps to target, did some proof of concept on how I want to make the tests23:04
plarsabout to start going through the apps and writing the individual tests23:04
NCommander[topic]    mobile-unr-karmic-wubi (StevenK)23:05
MootBotNew Topic:     mobile-unr-karmic-wubi (StevenK)23:05
* ogra wants mobile-unr-karmic-wubi-arm23:05
* NCommander notes you made that quip last week23:05
ograyeah, its my running gag to bridge the time until StevenK says something :P23:06
loolStevenK: poke23:06
StevenKWaiting on image testing23:06
StevenKSorry, was distracted by my browser23:06
StevenKAnd cdimage.u.c is slow :-(23:07
ograNCommander, ?23:07
NCommander[topic] karmic-lsb-compliance-testing (GrueMaster)23:07
MootBotNew Topic:  karmic-lsb-compliance-testing (GrueMaster)23:07
GrueMasterWIP23:07
GrueMasterWaiting on Alpha 3 for next phase of tests.23:07
NCommander[topic] mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (paulliu)23:08
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (paulliu)23:08
StevenKHaha, "blocked on Alpha 3"23:08
paulliuReviewing by lool currently.23:08
loolreviewed and asked davidm for approval23:08
paulliuAnd some patches are refining.23:08
NCommander[topic] mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)23:08
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)23:08
loolOh I can change its state now23:08
ograWIP23:08
NCommanderWIP?23:08
ograwork ... in ... progress23:09
NCommander[topic]    mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)23:09
MootBotNew Topic:     mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)23:09
ograrootstock project was created on LP ...23:09
looldavidm: I've properly set mobile-unr-karmic-application-res to pending approval by you; I thought I couldn't but I was probably logged out23:09
loolNo progress on mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds, other business this week23:09
StevenKlool: Yeah, I was logged out when I tried to retry a build, I think LP forced everyone off23:09
NCommander[topic] mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)23:10
MootBotNew Topic:  mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)23:10
ogradrafting ... other business etc23:10
NCommander[topic]    mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)23:10
MootBotNew Topic:     mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)23:10
davidmlool, I think something has been going on with LP today23:10
ogralast night already23:11
davidmmobile-unr-karmic-application-res approved23:11
dyfet_I am in the process of interesting the lubuntu community in taking over this spec23:11
ograthey flushed the user DB afaik23:11
ograor session DB23:11
StevenKThe latter23:11
NCommander[topic]    mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)23:11
MootBotNew Topic:     mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)23:11
StevenKThe former would be much much worse23:11
GrueMasterWaiting on info from DX, OEM23:11
ograyeah, was the latter23:11
StevenKAwwww.23:12
* StevenK was hoping -seeds gets mentioned23:12
NCommanderStevenK, ;-)23:12
loolGrueMaster: Who are you in contact with?23:12
NCommander[topic] Any other business23:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Any other business23:12
loolGrueMaster: Do we need to escalate this?23:12
GrueMasterAnmar, pete, neil.23:12
GrueMasterI've sent them all emails, and subscribed them to the spec.23:13
loolGrueMaster: I think you should ask davidm to raise to them that you're blocked on their input23:13
looldavidm: ^23:13
GrueMasterAlready did.23:13
davidmGrueMaster, did you phone them>23:13
davidmGrueMaster, did you phone them? that is23:13
davidmIf not please phone them on Monday23:14
GrueMasterNot yet.  Plan is to poke them first online.  I'll do that Monday after the holiday.23:14
plarsAnyone have any additional issues with the BugWorkflow as is currently documented?  Any suggestions or changes?23:14
plars[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow23:14
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow23:14
NCommanderI brought this up in passing23:14
NCommanderbut redboot is currently being troublesome, but we should have a new version for the TO2 in archive this weekend.23:15
loolplars: Should it be split in two pages for each type of bugs?23:15
loolI'm happy with it otherwise23:15
* ogra wouldnt split it23:15
plarslool: it doesn't seem to be burdensome as it is right now, but if it grows out of control, I had considered that23:15
ograit reflects the two areas we mostly work in atm23:16
NCommanderI think if we'r egoing to go to uboot for SL, we'll have to discuss this and maybe bring up a spec to track that23:16
* StevenK adds -translations to the list so it can get covered next week23:16
loolplars: I had in mind it would keep UNR stuff in the UNR namespace and the ARM stuff in its own; they don't really relate except we care for the two of them in the mobile team23:16
ograNCommander, that totally depends on commitment we get23:16
loolAnyway, this is minor I don't care strongly23:17
ograwhich we dont have yet23:17
NCommanderOk23:17
loolNCommander: do not push redboot built with different toolchain23:17
loolyet23:17
NCommanderlool, ?23:17
NCommanderlool, ok23:17
loolFirst we need to talk to FSL and clarify whether uboot will be good enough23:17
* NCommander can't either23:17
loolIt's not yet good enough for sure23:17
ogralool, well, currently its in the MobileTeam namespace :)23:18
loolNo USB, no SD/MMC, no SATA, no Ethernet,,23:18
loolOk.  anything else to discuss?23:18
plarslool: I see your point, it probably is best to associate it with UNR/ARM rather than with the team23:18
loolplars: This can be moved later and is trivial though; it's fine like that for now don't worry about it23:19
plarsok23:19
ogra++23:19
loolOk bye all23:19
* ogra guesses we'Re done23:19
NCommander#endmeeting23:19
MootBotMeeting finished at 17:19.23:19
ogralool, safe flight23:19
* NCommander goes to bed23:19
loolthx23:19
StevenK\o/23:19
NCommanderlool, good luck23:19
* GrueMaster runs to see who is burring the house down.23:20
Claudinux*penso che23:41

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