| Kangarooo | who is css programmer in launchpad? I need to assign this to him :) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/297239 | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 297239 in launchpad "Difficult to search packages when reporting bugs" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 00:01 |
| beuno | Kangarooo, that will soon be fixed | 00:03 |
| beuno | as in, replaced by a different picker which solves all your problems | 00:03 |
| Ursinha | ohh beuno | 00:03 |
| * Ursinha hugs beuno | 00:03 | |
| beuno | :) | 00:04 |
| LarstiQ | _all_ my problems? ;) | 00:06 |
| === _thumper_ is now known as thumper | ||
| beuno | LarstiQ, not yours no. You're a complex person ;) | 00:08 |
| LarstiQ | awww :/ | 00:09 |
| matsubara | does anyone know who is the maintainer of ubottu? | 00:39 |
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-dinner | ||
| Ursinha | matsubara-dinner, it's jussi01 | 00:40 |
| Ursinha | you can talk to him at #ubuntu-bots | 00:41 |
| matsubara-dinner | thanks! | 00:41 |
| wgrant | Uhoh. I just got a 502 from edge again. | 00:41 |
| * wgrant wanders off to work. | 00:41 | |
| thumper | what? wgrant works? | 00:45 |
| james_w | thumper: hey, what's (community) on BMPs? | 00:48 |
| === Ursinha changed the topic of #launchpad to: Current incident: Unable to log into Launchpad? Email feedback@launchpad.net | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Open Sourcing: https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing | ||
| thumper | james_w: broken? | 00:51 |
| thumper | james_w: they are reviews by people who are not reviewers of the target branch | 00:51 |
| thumper | james_w: but a little broke on edge | 00:51 |
| james_w | in that they are given to everyone? | 00:51 |
| thumper | james_w: fix has landed but not roleld | 00:51 |
| rockstar | james_w, I reviewed a branch that meant community is anyone not in the default review team. | 00:51 |
| thumper | james_w: we opened up reviewing to everyone again | 00:51 |
| thumper | not just those asked | 00:51 |
| thumper | or in the review team of the target branch | 00:52 |
| thumper | so if someone randomly reviews | 00:52 |
| thumper | it says (Community) | 00:52 |
| james_w | ok | 00:52 |
| james_w | to me it seems like that should be inverted, but I can't think of a good term off the top of my head for the other group | 00:52 |
| thumper | me neither | 00:53 |
| thumper | james_w: basicly reviews by random people are nice and all but not binding | 00:53 |
| james_w | (requested by: ~foo)? | 00:53 |
| === zirpu2 is now known as zirpu | ||
| wgrant | thumper: Said work uses Launchpad. Fortunately bzr is a DVCS. | 01:14 |
| kkszysiu | hello | 01:14 |
| kkszysiu | is possible to delete PPA? | 01:14 |
| kkszysiu | I want to change my login in launchpad | 01:15 |
| wgrant | kkszysiu: Not at the moment, but you can request that an admin disable it. | 01:15 |
| kkszysiu | ok so where is admin here? :D | 01:15 |
| thumper | wgrant: :) | 01:16 |
| wgrant | kkszysiu: You should ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad. You could also just ask an admin to force the account rename, although that will break your PPA. | 01:16 |
| kkszysiu | wgrant, youre admin? | 01:17 |
| wgrant | kkszysiu: Ahahahah no. | 01:17 |
| CrazyLemon | where /to whom can i report a user that is mistranslating ..on purpose | 01:29 |
| === matsubara-dinner is now known as matsubara | ||
| micahg | is there a config in launchpad to default to edge? | 01:46 |
| lifeless | join the beta team | 01:46 |
| micahg | lifeless: does that obligate me to anything? | 01:46 |
| lifeless | its documented on the team page I think | 01:47 |
| lifeless | at most you'll get announcements about things in the beta | 01:47 |
| micahg | ok | 01:47 |
| lifeless | (IIRC) | 01:47 |
| micahg | cool | 01:47 |
| === Kangarooo is now known as Kangarooo|Zzz | ||
| Ampelbein | hi. i have a problem with py-lplib again: I want to get the bugtracker for a specific project. See http://paste.ubuntu.com/208676/ For the sourcepackage "seahorse" that works, for e.g. gnome-panel it doesn't. what could be the reason for that? | 02:23 |
| dazjorz | Ok so the e-mail I just saw is genuine? :) | 02:31 |
| dazjorz | It seemed to be so, having a launchpad.net link in it etc | 02:32 |
| dazjorz | I was totally expecting to read "Go to http://launchpad.net.foo.org/ and fill in your username + password", was on the verge of deleting it :P | 02:32 |
| lifeless | Ampelbein: it may not be set? | 02:33 |
| lifeless | dazjorz: ? | 02:33 |
| dazjorz | lifeless: I'm talking about the launchpad e-mail saying users may not be able to log in etc | 02:34 |
| Ampelbein | lifeless: that would be too easy: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gnome-panel shows the bugtracker is set | 02:34 |
| dazjorz | anyway, good to see everything is fine, and luckily I can still log in :) | 02:34 |
| VK7HSE | How do I get a second PPA that I created (thinking that I could delete it!) removed as I have emailed the contact link on LP but I haven't heard anything for about 2 months ??? | 02:59 |
| micahg | q&A section for launchpad? | 03:00 |
| micahg | I"ve seen requests there | 03:00 |
| micahg | don't know if that's the right place though | 03:00 |
| VK7HSE | ok shall have a look... | 03:00 |
| CarlFK1 | how do delete a package from my PPA? | 03:00 |
| CarlFK1 | I have done it before... | 03:01 |
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk | ||
| CarlFK1 | https://edge.launchpad.net/~carlfk/+archive/ppa/+delete-packages ding! | 03:07 |
| VK7HSE | CarlFK1: no I'm after the removal of a registered PPA that I created not the packages within! | 03:10 |
| micahg | VK7HSE: I think he was answering his own question | 03:10 |
| CarlFK1 | yup :) | 03:10 |
| VK7HSE | Ah! ;) | 03:11 |
| VK7HSE | I currently have the one I want removed flagged as "DO NOT USE!" https://edge.launchpad.net/~vk7hse | 03:11 |
| VK7HSE | anyway.. shall keep searching! | 03:12 |
| === Ursinha is now known as jorjao | ||
| === jorjao is now known as Jorj | ||
| === Jorj is now known as Jorjao | ||
| nhandler | VK7HSE: micahg was correct. Create a question on answers.launchpad.net requesting the PPA's removal | 03:59 |
| VK7HSE | nhandler: yes have done ... thanks ;) | 04:00 |
| wgrant | Aha, the restorer of accounts is here. | 05:21 |
| anon90 | I have a friend whose location I set on launchpad. He is very unhappy with this fact and wants it deleted (not hidden, deleted). He has already sent email or submitted a web form about this. I was curious if their are any admin types around who might be able to help is request and, you know, salvage my friendship | 05:33 |
| anon90 | so... anybody? | 05:33 |
| lifeless | he should file a request at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | 05:34 |
| lifeless | it | 05:34 |
| micahg | anon90: why not just go in and remove it? | 05:34 |
| lifeless | will get actioned quickly | 05:34 |
| anon90 | you can | 05:34 |
| anon90 | you can | 05:34 |
| anon90 | sigh... I can't type | 05:34 |
| anon90 | he doesn't see a way to remove it... just to hide it | 05:34 |
| lifeless | anon90: however, *anyone* can set it. so he should a) set it to something wrong :) and b) hide it. | 05:34 |
| lifeless | anon90: that will stop anyone else ever changing it. | 05:35 |
| micahg | preferably in the same timezone | 05:35 |
| micahg | but wrong country or something | 05:36 |
| anon90 | unfortunately I'm not currently on footing to tell him this... he is quite upset about it (I don't understand but ... I am much more of the web 2.0 social networking mindframe, my currently anonymity aside | 05:36 |
| anon90 | ) | 05:36 |
| anon90 | I think he really just wants it back to the question mark setting | 05:36 |
| anon90 | for some reason he is not happy having any location set ... and he isn't willing to go onto the page to hide it, because to do so is to give Canonical an authoritative location (which I think is overly paranoid... but alas) | 05:37 |
| wgrant | So, there are two bugs here. | 05:37 |
| wgrant | One is that other people can set your location - that's not a useful feature any more. | 05:37 |
| wgrant | The other is that you can't unset your location. | 05:38 |
| anon90 | yes. | 05:38 |
| wgrant | (the first was also brought up on the recent privacy policy blog post) | 05:38 |
| anon90 | frankly, I just didn't think about it too much. but when I set his location I assumed it would ask him to approve it or something first | 05:38 |
| wgrant | One would think so. | 05:39 |
| wgrant | But alas, too much sense that would make. | 05:39 |
| anon90 | there is a warning thing saying not to give sensitive information without permission ... but I didn't even register it mentally. I came from a project map page and going from one map to another I didn't really notice the warning | 05:39 |
| anon90 | grr.. that change probably got in before I set it ... that means that technically he can't cry privacy policy violation | 05:41 |
| anon90 | ... I think it is a poor policy | 05:41 |
| anon90 | *sigh*... I didn't mean to offend him... this "feature" is TEARING FRIENDSHIPS APART!! </melodrama> | 05:42 |
| lifeless | so he should set it to the middle of the atlantic | 05:42 |
| anon90 | he is not willing to set any location... (as far as I understand it) | 05:43 |
| wgrant | Is this the question? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/75824 | 05:45 |
| anon90 | mhmm >_> (I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate me admitting that either) | 05:46 |
| lifeless | spm: ^ | 05:47 |
| wgrant | The response there confuses me. | 05:47 |
| wgrant | Even I could work out the query. | 05:47 |
| anon90 | yea... me too | 05:47 |
| wgrant | stub: Oh Lord of the DB, may I have some EmailAddresses on my Person at some point today, please? | 05:49 |
| lifeless | wgrant: ? | 05:50 |
| anon90 | *sigh* they really don't understand his desire for privacy do they? (one could argue I clearly am failing to, too ... but thats not the point) | 05:50 |
| wgrant | lifeless: They killed my Launchpad account overnight. | 05:50 |
| lifeless | wgrant: score! | 05:50 |
| wgrant | lifeless: By removing all confirmed/preferred email addresses from it. | 05:50 |
| stub | wgrant: Sure. Need launchpad username and preferred email address. Nobody sent them to me. | 05:50 |
| wgrant | stub: I sent to feedback@launchpad.net a few hours ago. | 05:50 |
| * wgrant PMs | 05:51 | |
| stub | Ok. Nobody filtered that yet :) | 05:51 |
| stub | We decided to target our active users when we messed up this time. | 05:51 |
| wgrant | Ah, OK. | 05:51 |
| lifeless | anon90: well, I understand it. Clicking 'hide' makes it private. Setting it to garbage means even we can't do anything with it | 05:51 |
| wgrant | stub: How is it that my email addresses added over 4 years were all broken? | 05:51 |
| stub | Because I 'fixed' it. Sorry. | 05:52 |
| anon90 | some one can set it back to the default value in the table... I don't believe that is impossible | 05:52 |
| anon90 | its probably not built into the admin interface | 05:52 |
| wgrant | I know that you killed them, but I was wondering how they qualified. | 05:52 |
| anon90 | but it certainly CAN be done | 05:52 |
| wgrant | It can be. | 05:52 |
| wgrant | I imagine an "UPDATE person SET latitude=NULL, longitude=NULL WHERE name='someuser'" would do it fine, assuming that the API fields aren't named differently. | 05:53 |
| stub | wgrant: Because there where unvalidated email addresses that where linked to the wrong account | 05:53 |
| wgrant | stub: Aha. | 05:53 |
| wgrant | stub: But that unvalidated email address is the only address that survived the Purge. | 05:53 |
| stub | wgrant: So it got picked up as corrupt data (correct) and incorrectly repaired. | 05:54 |
| wgrant | Ahh. | 05:54 |
| wgrant | Nasty. | 05:54 |
| lifeless | anon90: as said, a question asked by him on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | 05:54 |
| stub | Your email address is still there - it got moved to a nice new account when you attempted to long in, which doesn't help you much. | 05:54 |
| lifeless | anon90: it should be him, because otherwise we're deleting someones location based on a third persons request | 05:55 |
| lifeless | anon90: and it will get deleted in the db | 05:55 |
| wgrant | lifeless: There's one filed about it by mrevell, and the LOSAs said they couldn't do it. | 05:55 |
| lifeless | wgrant: is that the correct one though? or someone elses? | 05:55 |
| wgrant | stub: I never tried to log in, actually. I didn't want to break things more. | 05:55 |
| wgrant | lifeless: It's the right one. | 05:55 |
| lifeless | wgrant: ok, I didn't see anon90 confirm that | 05:55 |
| lifeless | wgrant: (and I still don't see confirmation) | 05:56 |
| anon90 | I am not him | 05:56 |
| wgrant | lifeless: 14:46:13 | 05:56 |
| stub | wgrant: Ok. Not sure then. The repair might not have gone as well as I hoped. | 05:56 |
| anon90 | but I am the one who set it | 05:56 |
| anon90 | I don't know why the ticket in the support queue isn't from him | 05:56 |
| anon90 | as I know he sent in a request himself | 05:56 |
| wgrant | anon90: He presumably emailed feedback@launchpad.net. | 05:56 |
| lifeless | wgrant: mhmm is hardly yes :) | 05:56 |
| wgrant | The mrevell read that, and forwarded it. | 05:57 |
| wgrant | stub: Aha! I'm alive again! | 05:57 |
| stub | wgrant: Should be | 05:57 |
| wgrant | Thanks. | 05:57 |
| wgrant | Now I just have to work out what bugs I need to read :( | 05:57 |
| lifeless | I'm not sure why we can't do it | 05:57 |
| ajmitch | wgrant: you may now enjoy the wonders of bug mail again | 05:58 |
| anon90 | I'm confused... | 05:59 |
| anon90 | Matthew Revel is clearly on the launchpad team. His request claims to (and I know accurately does) reflect my friend's wishes.... | 06:00 |
| wgrant | lifeless: Is that enough? ^^ | 06:01 |
| wgrant | Yay, bugmail works again. | 06:02 |
| anon90 | I'm also annoyed that it stores enough metainformation that he knew I was the one who set it... but not enough that they have a user_verified field | 06:03 |
| wgrant | anon90: What do you mean? | 06:04 |
| anon90 | somehow he knew I set it ... since I set my own location I don't know what he saw | 06:05 |
| wgrant | It does know who set it, because it becomes uneditable by anybody but the user once the user sets it. | 06:05 |
| anon90 | I just don't understand the policy. I think that field would be better used to hold a boolean for wether the user whose location it is approved it. a) it should be hidden as long as its false, but b) if it asks them if its correct and they say no... it should clear it | 06:06 |
| anon90 | this is in fact a feature request that I suppose I could file | 06:07 |
| anon90 | but at the present I really just want to get his location cleared to the point that he'll be happy | 06:07 |
| wgrant | I think you should file a bug asking that it never be settable by anybody but the user. | 06:07 |
| anon90 | there already is one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/262193 | 06:09 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 262193 in launchpad-registry "new location code allows anyone to set anyone else's location" [Low,Triaged] | 06:09 |
| anon90 | so ... i don't know who anyone here is | 06:22 |
| anon90 | can anyone here help me. and lifeless said that if my friend makes a request on answers. himself than it will be fixed. is there any reason I should believe him? (I don't mean to sound rude I am just exasperated here) | 06:23 |
| anon90 | it also appears the privacy policy update of two days ago may have been in response to my friend's request | 06:30 |
| anon90 | *sigh* ... I may up losing a friend over this bug | 06:31 |
| anon90 | end up* | 06:31 |
| anon90 | lifeless: I actually checked your profile on launchpad ... it appears like you are actually someone who can help. can you state authoritatively that if he posts on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad himself it WILL be removed? | 06:46 |
| === noodles775 is now known as noodles775-afk | ||
| anon90 | stub: you were mentioned as a master of DBs ... any chance you could help my friend out? | 06:53 |
| CarlFK1 | anon90: regardless of what anyone does about this... you and your friend should have a talk about what is important in life | 06:54 |
| CarlFK1 | things that I don't tolerate: making me bleed, costing me money, slandering my family. | 06:55 |
| CarlFK1 | "reasonable human interaction" allows for allot of crap | 06:56 |
| anon90 | we have an inherent problem in that he highly values his privacy and I don't especially... I'm just trying to learn to better respect others privacy. my current anonymous state was just supposed to aid with his anonymity.. though my admission on the link to the answer didn't help that | 06:57 |
| spiv | anon90: yes, answers.launchpad.net/launchpad is the best place to file support requests like that | 06:58 |
| stub | anon90: What is the problem? | 06:58 |
| stub | And who is your friend? | 06:59 |
| anon90 | I set a friend's location status. He doesn't want it set (at all). he emailed feedback, Matthew Revell made an answers post. The person their claims its impossible | 06:59 |
| wgrant | A LOSA claimed that it was impossible. | 07:00 |
| wgrant | Which is clearly false. | 07:00 |
| stub | So setting it to Mt. Everest and flipping the 'hide' flag isn't good enough? Weird. | 07:01 |
| anon90 | stub: he doesn't want to set the location himself... he considers that to be giving an authoritative location. I don't frankly understand how his mind works on this | 07:02 |
| stub | I can trash stuff. It probably won't make his account explode. I still don't know who you are talking about though. | 07:02 |
| stub | Yer - sometimes 'problems' like this are a great way of filtering our userbase. | 07:02 |
| CarlFK1 | stub: I believe this is what you need: (11:46:49 PM) wgrant: Is this the question? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/75824 | 07:03 |
| anon90 | he has already said he doesn't actually *want* to be a user per se, but he is involved in some projects that keeps its bug-tracking on launchpad and wants the bug-emails. | 07:04 |
| anon90 | he is very generally anti social networking | 07:04 |
| anon90 | I am not so much ... which is why (if it was obvious who I was) you could see that I set my own location to the courtyard of my dorm complex | 07:05 |
| stub | Location now nuked until he sets it himself and hides it or someone does it for him. | 07:05 |
| wgrant | anon90: Well, it /is/ fairly obvious who you are. | 07:05 |
| anon90 | to people who have database access it is ... I don't know about the rest | 07:06 |
| anon90 | unless there is some field I am missing | 07:06 |
| anon90 | (or some other things that disclosing seems silly to do) | 07:06 |
| anon90 | (I can think of some ways my location is quite tractable ... without using launchpad at all) | 07:06 |
| anon90 | ... or a bug report ... or something *hides under rocks* | 07:07 |
| wgrant | anon90: The bug report is one way. | 07:08 |
| lifeless | anon90: I know of no specific reason why it can't be done. However mthaddon who already commented may know of some. | 07:12 |
| anon90 | stub did it | 07:12 |
| lifeless | anon90: so, I'm sorry, but I cannot assert that *it will be done* | 07:12 |
| spiv | wgrant: maybe the /whois is just a red herring :P | 07:12 |
| anon90 | I forget how IRC works *sigh* | 07:14 |
| stub | Its not so much it cannot be done, its just it can a) only be done by me and is b) pointless, because anyone can set the location until the user does it themself. | 07:14 |
| wgrant | anon90: You also joined with your real nick just before. | 07:15 |
| wgrant | stub: Er, LOSAs can't do that? | 07:15 |
| anon90 | I know ... which was dumb | 07:15 |
| anon90 | *but its not in the log* | 07:15 |
| stub | They could if I wrote a policy for it, but it is... well... pointless. | 07:15 |
| anon90 | also ... I realized a mutual acquaintance has been in the channel the whole time | 07:15 |
| wgrant | stub: Oh, I always assumed that they had full access. | 07:16 |
| wgrant | That makes more sense now. | 07:16 |
| stub | wgrant: They do. They also don't like to go in and make random changes to the database, which can be dangerous as you found out recently ;) | 07:16 |
| wgrant | stub: Ah, that kind of policy. | 07:16 |
| anon90 | in any case, I have done what I could do to make it better or worse... I shall now /quit ... and I shan't return unless I have better things to say | 07:18 |
| wgrant | Has the location issue been discussed with sabdfl lately? | 07:52 |
| wgrant | (thanks for reopening that, kfogel) | 07:52 |
| kfogel | wgrant: np. It hasn't been discussed with sabdfl lately, but I think that's more a matter of time allocation than intention. | 07:52 |
| kfogel | wgrant: I think most of the solutions proposed in the bug are reasonable, fwiw. | 07:53 |
| wgrant | kfogel: Somebody might want to reply to the two dissenting comments on http://blog.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-privacy-policy-update. | 08:02 |
| kfogel | wgrant: thanks. I think I'll drop a note there now. | 08:03 |
| kfogel | wgrant: done | 08:04 |
| === noodles775-afk is now known as noodles775 | ||
| thisfred | hey launchpaderos! | 10:44 |
| thisfred | There seems to be something strange with team memberships today. Everyobe on the ubunet-hackers team now seems to show up as (community) when reviewing for one thing... | 10:45 |
| wgrant | thisfred: There's a bug filed on that. | 10:46 |
| thisfred | wgrant: ah, cool, I'll have a look | 10:46 |
| thisfred | thanks | 10:46 |
| wgrant | I would give you the bug number, but my search mechanism is broken as somebody killed my account last night. | 10:46 |
| wgrant | But it's fairly new, and on launchpad-code. | 10:47 |
| thisfred | wgrant: thanks, I'll find it. Seems we can't do reviews at all anymore, and reviews are disappearing. Slightly worrying... :) | 10:57 |
| bigjools | stub: is that the bug you're fixing? --^ | 10:59 |
| thisfred | bug #394800 for further reference | 11:00 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 394800 in launchpad-code "Members of review team shown as (community)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394800 | 11:00 |
| wgrant | That's the one. | 11:00 |
| stub | Could be | 11:00 |
| stub | Looks like a different issue - aaron has a branch already. | 11:03 |
| thisfred | also: this may be an edge only problem, it looks like now | 11:03 |
| maxb | stub: I have a question (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+question/72929) requesting that one of my PGP keys be reassigned to a different account, or be removed so I can re-add it there - the question seems to be a bit stalled - do you perhaps have time to glance at it and tell me if it will get done if I wait long enough, or if it has just baffled everyone? Thanks. | 11:05 |
| maxb | (Sorry, you got outed as master of DBs and now everyone's clamoring for you :-) ) | 11:06 |
| * wgrant hides in the corner. | 11:06 | |
| stub | maxb: There are a heap of packageuploads tied to that key. I honestly don't know what the fallout would be if I swapped things at the db level - it could break archives since they are external to the database. | 11:12 |
| maxb | alright. At least a definite no is better than limbo :-) | 11:18 |
| maxb | I guess I'll just have to revoke the key, create another with the same user id, and hope that isn't too confusing | 11:19 |
| wgrant | Or get a Soyuz dev to convince stub that it's OK. But revocation is probably easier. | 11:19 |
| wgrant | But it would be nice to avoid that keyserver pollution. | 11:20 |
| maxb | ball back in cprov's court I guess :-) | 11:20 |
| maxb | I can't see which key uploaded a package being important to anything except auditability | 11:21 |
| wgrant | It wouldn't be used in archive filesystem generation. | 11:21 |
| wgrant | All I know it's used for is showing the uploader on the IArchive:+index. | 11:21 |
| stub | maxb: Ideally, you wouldn't have two accounts but I don't think you can do that without giving your upload full permissions on your normal account. | 11:22 |
| wgrant | stub: Would bug #381321 have been fixed by what you did last night? | 11:22 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 381321 in launchpad "problems with invalid account" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381321 | 11:22 |
| stub | yu[ | 11:29 |
| stub | yup | 11:29 |
| wgrant | Great. | 11:29 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| stuartm | good morning #launchpad. https://api.staging.launchpad.net/beta/ has been broken for over an hour. any idea when I can expect it to be available again? | 11:36 |
| wgrant | Once stub unleashes a lot of hate on Storm, maybe. | 11:38 |
| stuartm | heh! there's nothing like a working staging server | 11:40 |
| Ampelbein | hi. i have a problem with py-lplib again: I want to get the bugtracker for a specific project. See http://paste.ubuntu.com/208878 For the sourcepackage "seahorse" that works, for e.g. gnome-panel it doesn't. what could be the reason for that? Of course, the bugtracker for gnome-panel is visible in the web-interface. | 11:46 |
| stuartm | so, let's say, hypothetically, I actually had some rather pressing work to do on a system using the staging api. how much alternative work should I consider doing while I wait for it to become available again? | 11:49 |
| stub | stuartm: its backup. there is a nice core file for us to play with. | 12:01 |
| wgrant | Niiice. | 12:02 |
| stuartm | stub: thanks. will it be available for the rest of the day now? | 12:02 |
| wgrant | But it didn't run out of RAM again? | 12:02 |
| wgrant | Hmm, HTTP requests to lists.launchpad.net seem to hang. | 12:04 |
| stub | RAM issues are sorted I think | 12:11 |
| wgrant | Somebody unbroke lists.l.n? | 12:14 |
| elmo | wgrant: yes | 12:15 |
| wgrant | elmo: Thanks. | 12:15 |
| elmo | well I say unbroke. we face stabbed it. you might want to thank me when we finally figure out what's eating gilbert forster | 12:16 |
| Ampelbein | hi. i have a problem with py-lplib again: I want to get the bugtracker for a specific project. See http://paste.ubuntu.com/208878 For the sourcepackage "seahorse" that works, for e.g. gnome-panel it doesn't. what could be the reason for that? Of course, the bugtracker for gnome-panel is visible in the web-interface. Should I file a question/bug on launchpad? | 13:15 |
| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === Kangarooo is now known as Kangarooo|Runnin | ||
| fta2 | wgrant, /wrt bug 280958, how far are we from ppa ranking? | 14:01 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 280958 in soyuz "Package page doesn't show related PPAs for that package" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280958 | 14:01 |
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| noodles775 | Hey fta2, | 14:02 |
| noodles775 | We don't have any infrastructure to rank ppas yet... | 14:02 |
| noodles775 | it's planned... | 14:02 |
| fta2 | hm, ok | 14:03 |
| noodles775 | but won't be happening within the next month (I'd guess) | 14:03 |
| noodles775 | fta2: Julian also had some more suggestions that I'm going to play with... | 14:03 |
| noodles775 | Changing the wording to: | 14:03 |
| noodles775 | "There are 16 untrusted .... PPAs. Here are the three with the most recently uploaded packages..." | 14:03 |
| noodles775 | (or something similar...) | 14:04 |
| noodles775 | Do you think that would help clarify things for your users? | 14:04 |
| noodles775 | (It's not a long-term solution of course...) | 14:04 |
| fta2 | "There are 16 untrusted" implies that they are *all* untrusted, which is even more confusing | 14:04 |
| noodles775 | fta2: hmm... but if they are in PPAs, they are untrusted in one sense (ie. not part of main etc.) Outside of that, there is no way to say that one PPA is "more trusted" than another, other than via the relationships to upstream project teams (as you suggested) | 14:06 |
| bigjools | yes, they are all untrusted though | 14:06 |
| fta2 | a lot of people think that team PPAs are somewhat trusted, or at least reliable enough to be used | 14:07 |
| bigjools | I hear different things from different people | 14:07 |
| bigjools | hmmm I have a thought | 14:07 |
| === matsubara-afk is now known as matsubara | ||
| bigjools | if the PPA owner or team has got someone from core-dev in it, does that make it more trusted? | 14:08 |
| noodles775 | I don't think it necessarily does... they might be part of the team but play no role in the packaging etc.? | 14:08 |
| === Jorjao is now known as Ursinha | ||
| fta2 | won't work for me, i'm motu, but not core-dev | 14:08 |
| bigjools | what about anyone who has upload privs to Ubuntu? | 14:09 |
| fta2 | and most core-dev probably have no clue about how my packages work ;) | 14:09 |
| bigjools | :) | 14:09 |
| noodles775 | yeah, I'm wary of trying to establish some kind of 'trust' in that sense... | 14:10 |
| noodles775 | hmph | 14:10 |
| fta2 | maybe sort the list by karma | 14:10 |
| noodles775 | ooh, there's a thought... do teams have karma though? | 14:10 |
| noodles775 | or we could use team owner? | 14:10 |
| fta2 | sum up the active members karma | 14:11 |
| bigjools | yes, that was part of the ranking criteria we want to implement in the real ranking | 14:11 |
| noodles775 | but could we use raw karma until we have a better ranking system? | 14:11 |
| maxb | Why should someone's translations/answers/... karma have any relevance to quality of their PPAs? | 14:11 |
| noodles775 | (summing up could be expensive) | 14:12 |
| fta2 | worth a try | 14:12 |
| bigjools | that would nicely promote MOTU and core-devs over regular PPA users as you get more karma for uploading to Ubuntu | 14:12 |
| bigjools | maxb: we can explicitly use Soyuz karma | 14:13 |
| noodles775 | maxb: yes, it's not perfect - we can't have a perfect atm., but it's whether it will provide useful results lots of the time (as opposed to displaying semi-random ppas by last upload) | 14:13 |
| noodles775 | bigjools: ooh, that would be great! | 14:13 |
| nfilus | hello to all | 14:33 |
| nfilus | I need help in setup a translation for a project | 14:33 |
| jtv | nfilus: what's the problem? | 14:36 |
| danilos | nfilus: hi, perhaps I can help as well if jtv is busy ;) | 14:36 |
| nfilus | I was appointed as driver for a project and I want to help setup the translation in launchpad | 14:36 |
| * jtv bows to danilo while leaving the room backwards | 14:37 | |
| nfilus | the help is not quite clear | 14:37 |
| nfilus | do I (or the owner) have to create a translation group and several teams? | 14:37 |
| danilos | nfilus: yeah, what is it that's troubling you? (so we can improve help, and explain what are following steps to take) | 14:37 |
| danilos | nfilus: no, not at all... in general, that's only if you have very specific needs | 14:38 |
| nfilus | I'm missing a step-by-step howto | 14:38 |
| danilos | nfilus: for most purposes, you would use one of the existing groups, like launchpad-translators group | 14:38 |
| nfilus | danilos: most help is targeted for end-users or subproject administrators | 14:39 |
| danilos | nfilus: there are many variations of allowed set-up, we'll definitely work on a "recommended" one and document it once we get there | 14:39 |
| nfilus | ok, the project is centreon - a nagios frontend | 14:39 |
| nfilus | I don'T think it should be supervised by one of the existing teams | 14:39 |
| nfilus | sorry, groups | 14:39 |
| danilos | nfilus: why not? | 14:39 |
| nfilus | it is too different?! | 14:40 |
| nfilus | what are the pros and cons for joining an existing group or creating a new one? | 14:40 |
| danilos | nfilus: having a translation group basically means having to run a complete translation project on your own, it's a lot of work just to communicate with all the people | 14:40 |
| nfilus | so a missing document would be: "what can an existing group (like launchpad-translators) do for you | 14:41 |
| danilos | nfilus: well, creating a new one: only admins can do it, it allows you to tightly control who gets to edit translations, and that's usually why you'd ask for it; using existing ones, there are already translators in them, they have a set of rules and policies for doing quality translations (not everybody can join), and represent established translation teams | 14:41 |
| danilos | nfilus: we are in the process of improving that documentation (actually, you might see some of it already if you are using edge.launchpad.net) | 14:42 |
| danilos | nfilus: also, launchpad-translations group has recently been started and has not really kicked off yet, though we are working on that | 14:42 |
| nfilus | danilos: so a groups may (and should) consist of translators outside of the project?! | 14:42 |
| danilos | nfilus: well, that's the big benefit of Launchpad: you get more contributions from outside people, meaning more translations, meaning more prospective users who can understand your application | 14:43 |
| nfilus | danilos: contributions from outside are ok, but outside administrators? | 14:44 |
| danilos | nfilus: if you don't like the idea of more translations and more users, it's a good idea to set up your own translation group (big projects who already have established translation communities like GNOME do that) | 14:44 |
| danilos | nfilus: they are only administering translation team structure; launchpad-translators is going to have only good translators | 14:45 |
| danilos | nfilus: who can do the translation and in what way also depends on privilege level you choose | 14:45 |
| nfilus | danilos: so assume, I would assign an existing group to the project, then they will be responsible for the translation and invite/ack people and proposed translations, right? | 14:45 |
| danilos | nfilus: that's right, if you use Structured or Restricted privileges; if you use Open, anybody (even people from outside translation group) can translate anything | 14:46 |
| danilos | nfilus: if you go to a page like https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/limewire and click on "Open", you'll see privileges explained (that will show up on production servers shortly if it hasn't already; for it to show up on your project, you'll need to mark it as using translations) | 14:48 |
| nfilus | ok, I just noticed on https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/Groups the link to https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LaunchpadTranslators | 14:50 |
| nfilus | danilos: this section should be described and empesized better as it gives the advantages of joining a group - here: launchpadtranslators | 14:51 |
| danilos | nfilus: right, I'll forward that input to our docs guy, mrevell | 14:52 |
| danilos | nfilus: we definitely want to spend more time on that group, so it becomes more and more useful | 14:52 |
| mrevell | nfilus: let me read up a little | 14:52 |
| mrevell | I've just added some pop-up help, that's on edge right now, that explains translation groups right on the page where you select one. I'll update the help wiki too | 14:53 |
| mrevell | the /LaunchpadTranslators section is cared for by the LP translators group themselves | 14:53 |
| mrevell | I shall look at how better to give that some more prominence | 14:53 |
| nfilus | In: "You can contact the Launchpad Translators Team for announcing things that affect all languages (ex. approaching release, major string changes, string freeze... etc.) or a specific language team for things affecting only one language. " | 14:53 |
| nfilus | the term team is used in a different mannor as defined before | 14:54 |
| nfilus | different way | 14:54 |
| nfilus | or is there a team and a group "launchpad translators"? | 14:55 |
| nfilus | oh, there are very few language teams in launchpad-translators | 15:02 |
| nfilus | danilos: so in my case (I am the project driver, not the owner) I would have to ask the owner to assign the launchpad-translators as responsible group, choose a policy (like restricted or open) then I would have to join the "Launchpad German Translators" to translate the project | 15:06 |
| nfilus | danilos: right? | 15:07 |
| nfilus | and by beeing in the team I may also translate strings from all the other projects from launchpad-translators group? | 15:08 |
| danilos | nfilus: right; if you make it structured, for languages which have no teams it'll be just as if it's completely open | 15:10 |
| danilos | nfilus: otherwise, in structured, people can only make suggestions if they are not in a team, and team members have to approve them | 15:11 |
| nfilus | great | 15:12 |
| nfilus | all the informations are there, but in different places ... | 15:12 |
| nfilus | thank you very much | 15:14 |
| danilos | nfilus: np, sorry for it being so confusing | 15:18 |
| nfilus | danilos: no problem, I hope my difficulties and the feedback will help improving it | 15:19 |
| nfilus | danilos: if we choose launchpad translators as the group - can we assign individual language teams? | 15:20 |
| nfilus | danilos: for example: the project is done in france, but still there is no french team in the group | 15:20 |
| danilos | nfilus: no, but if there's someone willing to lead a French launchpad translators team by the standards of launchpad translators group (i.e. do not make a team open, have some initial documentation, and do not approve anybody into a team), then we can assign it to them | 15:21 |
| nfilus | ah, ok ... I don'T think there are enough ressources :) | 15:23 |
| dpm | nfilus: you can try to contact the French Ubuntu translators to create a Launchpad translators group, since they've got experience and follow the standards danilos was mentioning. Or you can let me know whether I can assist you contacting them, I'll be glad to help -> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-fr | 15:29 |
| nfilus | thanks for the offer - I will pass it to the french guys (I can already join the german group :) ) | 15:31 |
| dpm | great | 15:32 |
| === fjlacoste is now known as flacoste | ||
| nfilus | thanks once again | 15:39 |
| nfilus | bye | 15:39 |
| === leif is now known as leifdk1978 | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| === Kangarooo|Runnin is now known as Kangarooo | ||
| pmatulis | should all subscribers to a branch get diffs? or do they need to be part of a review team? | 16:18 |
| beuno | pmatulis, you specify what type of notification you want when you subscribe | 16:20 |
| pmatulis | beuno: so receiving diffs by mail has nothing to do with being part of a special review team? | 16:25 |
| beuno | pmatulis, exactly | 16:26 |
| pmatulis | beuno: ty | 16:26 |
| fta2 | i see the number of builders assigned to PPAs fluctuate a lot those days.. just out of curiosity, what else are they doing? http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/ppa-builders.png | 16:38 |
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch | ||
| === salgado_ is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara | ||
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === sale_ is now known as sale | ||
| pisecx | Hi. I was testing launchpad functionality and added two users to a "team". Is it possible to delete them? I have found deactivate and they are listed in "former members" list. | 18:30 |
| === Kangarooo1 is now known as Kangarooo | ||
| matsubara | pisecx, if they're in the former members list means they don't belong to the team anymore | 18:52 |
| matsubara | it's the same thing as deleting them | 18:53 |
| pisecx | i see ) | 18:53 |
| pisecx | but they a listed ) | 18:53 |
| pisecx | all other people of world are not listed in those list ) | 18:53 |
| matsubara | well, they're listed because they once were added to the team but then removed. why is that a problem? | 18:57 |
| pisecx | no, no problems, thanks | 18:59 |
| matsubara | pisecx, bug 239911 might be the bug you're looking for | 19:02 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 239911 in launchpad-registry "Former Member management needs preference" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239911 | 19:02 |
| devananda | Hi all ... is there a way to accelerate bzr push to lp? I'm barely getting 8KB/s | 19:06 |
| Ape | Is it possible to cancel builds on Launchpad PPA (for resource saving etc.)? I updated my package and it still wants to compile the old version (that had a bad error, I quickly fixed). I think I should cancel the old packages, because they are not needed at all. | 19:33 |
| alkisg | What do I have to do to delete an empty PPA that we mistakenly created for my team? File a question in soyuz? https://launchpad.net/~linux.sch.gr/+archive/ppa | 19:38 |
| zsquareplusc | the idea of the milestone column in the list of bugs is? the milestone where the fix should be included, or where the error occurred? | 19:43 |
| maxb | Ape: Once you've uploaded a new package, builds that have not yet started will be cancelled when they would otherwise start. Builds that have already started cannot be cancelled without admin intervention, so it's usually only worthwhile if the build would take many hours | 19:43 |
| Ape | Ok | 19:43 |
| maxb | alkisg: Correct, file a question | 19:44 |
| maxb | zsquareplusc: Milestones are for future planning of when developers think they need to aim to fix a bug by | 19:46 |
| zsquareplusc | maxb: ok | 19:54 |
| zsquareplusc | i whish that this would be more clear when looking at the web page. because a lot of bug trackers allow you to set where the bug was found | 19:55 |
| maxb | It is a feature that is notably missing in Launchpad | 20:00 |
| * zsquareplusc likes that one can play around in staging | 20:00 | |
| zsquareplusc | is it possible to migrate the sf.net tracker when a project is being moved over to launchpad? | 20:02 |
| Xiumeteo | hey i need help to push | 20:08 |
| zsquareplusc | then push to us some more detail about your problem | 20:11 |
| Xiumeteo | ejem my question is the next bzr said me that i need to protect my ssh private key and then ignore launchpad key | 20:11 |
| zsquareplusc | Xiumeteo: then make sure that your pivate key is only readable by your user and not by world (file permissions), like rw---- | 20:12 |
| Xiumeteo | it is chmod 000 ? | 20:13 |
| Xiumeteo | ok let me check | 20:13 |
| beuno | no, I think it's 600 | 20:14 |
| * zsquareplusc doesn't use octal numbers | 20:14 | |
| zsquareplusc | chmod a=,u+rw | 20:15 |
| Xiumeteo | it doesnt func | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | this is my bzr push message: | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | WARNING: UNPROTECTED PRIVATE KEY FILE! @ | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | Permissions 0755 for '/home/cesar/.ssh/id_rsa' are too open. | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | It is recommended that your private key files are NOT accessible by others. | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | This private key will be ignored. | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | bad permissions: ignore key: /home/cesar/.ssh/id_rsa | 20:18 |
| Xiumeteo | Permission denied (publickey) | 20:18 |
| beuno | Xiumeteo, there you go | 20:18 |
| beuno | it's telling you it's set to 755 | 20:19 |
| beuno | when it should be 600 | 20:19 |
| beuno | both the dir *and* the file | 20:19 |
| Xiumeteo | but my key itsin my home folder | 20:19 |
| Xiumeteo | i need to close permission about my home folder? | 20:19 |
| beuno | no | 20:20 |
| beuno | .ssh | 20:20 |
| beuno | and .ssh/id_rsa | 20:20 |
| Xiumeteo | ok | 20:20 |
| Xiumeteo | it chmod 600 .ssh .ssh/id_rsa and the key file | 20:20 |
| zsquareplusc | id_rsa is a provate key file | 20:21 |
| zsquareplusc | when you want to use an other key not named like id_rsa[\.\d+] you have to manually load it with ssh-add | 20:22 |
| Xiumeteo | thanks now bzr change the message now is: | 20:23 |
| Xiumeteo | Failed to add the host to the list of known hosts (/home/cesar/.ssh/known_hosts). | 20:23 |
| Xiumeteo | Permission denied (publickey). | 20:23 |
| Xiumeteo | bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions | 20:23 |
| zsquareplusc | so you do not have the correct private key loaded. | 20:23 |
| zsquareplusc | try to load it with ssh-add first | 20:24 |
| Xiumeteo | ok it ssh-add and the key file? | 20:24 |
| zsquareplusc | yes | 20:24 |
| * zsquareplusc prefers .ssh/id_rsa as these can be managed with the password tool in accessories | 20:25 | |
| zsquareplusc | that is, put all your private keys to .ssh, named like id_rsa.1 id_rsa.2 etc and then you can use seahorse to manage them, including a nice graphical password requester for protected keys | 20:28 |
| Xiumeteo | jajaja ok | 20:29 |
| Xiumeteo | rght now my keys are in my /home file | 20:29 |
| zsquareplusc | whatever works best for you :-) | 20:29 |
| Xiumeteo | cesar@cesar-ubuntu:~/CafeExpress$ bzr push lp:~skylinecesar93/+junk/CafeExpress | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | The authenticity of host 'bazaar.launchpad.net (91.189.90.11)' can't be established. | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | RSA key fingerprint is .....key | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | Failed to add the host to the list of known hosts (/home/cesar/.ssh/known_hosts). | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | bzr: ERROR: Target directory lp:~skylinecesar93/+junk/CafeExpress already exists, but does not have a valid .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway | 20:30 |
| Xiumeteo | heheh im sorry but i am very newest in this | 20:30 |
| zsquareplusc | did you create an empty repo using the web interface? | 20:31 |
| zsquareplusc | if so, you can use the --use-existing-dir option to overwrite the current (empty?) branch on the server | 20:31 |
| Xiumeteo | yes, in fact the bzr puh code was gived to me by launchpad | 20:31 |
| zsquareplusc | this happens only the 1st time in the case of pushing existing branches to repos created using the web interface | 20:32 |
| Xiumeteo | yuju! thanks for all now i have my repo | 20:33 |
| zsquareplusc | new firmware for your coffee machine, guessing from the name? ;-) | 20:34 |
| Xiumeteo | jajajaja no exactly is a calculator to low gama phones | 20:35 |
| Xiumeteo | the repo https://code.launchpad.net/~skylinecesar93/+junk/CafeExpress | 20:35 |
| bjsnider | is there any way i can stop launchpad from sending emails to all members of a team? | 21:31 |
| mthaddon | bjsnider: what kinds of emails? | 21:37 |
| bjsnider | for instance if a ppa build fails | 21:37 |
| mthaddon | bjsnider: hmm, not sure where the contact for that is set | 21:37 |
| mthaddon | bjsnider: I would guess that you may want to create the PPA with a team that all team members are interested in that info, or you could try filing a bug requesting some way for individual members to be able to control subscriptions to PPA info | 21:39 |
| devfil | hi, can someone help me? my account (https://launchpad.net/~d.filoni/) seems to be "inactive" but I can login, the profile page is empty and I cannot upload to my ppas | 21:47 |
| === ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca | ||
| maxb | devfil: the topic suggests you should email feedback@launchpad.net | 22:13 |
| devfil | maxb, already done, however I *can* login, the issue is different | 22:14 |
| * Xiumeteo do a question in what project are you working? | 22:15 | |
| mneptok | Xiumeteo: this channel is for Launchpad support and development issues. please avoid polling questions like that. | 22:19 |
| Xiumeteo | ok | 22:19 |
| mneptok | thanks :) | 22:20 |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk | ||
| === Adri2000_ is now known as Adri2000 | ||
| kangarooo | how to make bug to wishlist? | 23:16 |
| redbrain | hey guys i am having problems uploading to my ppa | 23:17 |
| redbrain | Already uploaded to my-ppa on ppa.launchpad.net | 23:17 |
| redbrain | but the package i uploaded was wrong | 23:17 |
| redbrain | but i cant fix it | 23:17 |
| redbrain | because i duno how to delte it | 23:17 |
| redbrain | and upload my fixed one | 23:18 |
| redbrain | i just get the rejected mail from launchpad | 23:18 |
| zsquareplusc | then fix it on your machine and upload again? | 23:18 |
| kangarooo | https://launchpad.net/~locoteams timeout error | 23:19 |
| redbrain | yeah but when i try and upload again | 23:19 |
| redbrain | i just get | 23:19 |
| redbrain | Already uploaded to my-ppa on ppa.launchpad.net | 23:19 |
| zsquareplusc | redbrain: then delete that xxx.upload file on your disk | 23:20 |
| redbrain | omg i feel like a dumbass | 23:20 |
| redbrain | i never noticed those files | 23:20 |
| redbrain | thanks | 23:21 |
| redbrain | why does dput rely on those .upload files | 23:21 |
| redbrain | shouldnt it be something from the server | 23:21 |
| kangarooo | how to put something on wish list? how to convert bug to wish? | 23:22 |
| zsquareplusc | yes the launchpad server checks that too. but maybe that wasn't always the case back when they wrote that software. it also saves resources on the server when the error is caught earlier | 23:22 |
| zsquareplusc | kangarooo: you mean changing the bug importance to "whishlist"? | 23:24 |
| zsquareplusc | when you open a bug there are small down arrows besides "importance" which when you click, you get an interface to change that. granted you have the permissions on that project/bug | 23:25 |
| kangarooo | umm i cant change that.. | 23:25 |
| kangarooo | yes i know there but i cant change that.. i click and there is only icon of pen and red stripe | 23:27 |
| zsquareplusc | importance and milestone can only be changed by project members/bug supervisors | 23:27 |
| kangarooo | omg now theyll think i wanted to say that what i wrote that thats a bug.. so on lanchpad i cant put my wishes? | 23:28 |
| zsquareplusc | so if you filed that bug on someone else's project you can't. maybe just attach a note in the comments if you feel like it is wrong there | 23:28 |
| kangarooo | ill write that its a wishlist.. | 23:30 |
| zsquareplusc | there are blueprint and answers which could be used to ask for features | 23:31 |
| === Hellow_ is now known as Hellow | ||
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