| === dyfet_ is now known as dyfet | ||
| === cbrake_away is now known as cbrake | ||
| jordanucla | Hi all, is there somewhere that lists the differences between ubuntu and ubuntu-arm? Going to build a little home NFS/music/X10/torrent server so thinking to use ARM, but wondering if it will be powerful enough for the basic things I need. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| Martyn | jordanucla : Just about all the packages in main, and most of the packages in universe are there | 16:31 |
| Martyn | as for "powerful" .. umm .. it depends on the processor? | 16:32 |
| Martyn | If you're running a Shivaplug, it's going to be 'meh' | 16:32 |
| Martyn | if you're running a babbage board, it's going to be 'meh+' | 16:32 |
| jordanucla | would you say Arm processors are usually equivalent to x86 in terms of model? | 16:32 |
| jordanucla | i.e. 800mhz arm == 800mhz x86 | 16:32 |
| jordanucla | or not that simple? | 16:32 |
| Martyn | that question makes no sense | 16:32 |
| Martyn | RISC vs CISC | 16:32 |
| jordanucla | ya, poorly phrased | 16:33 |
| Martyn | entire architectural differences | 16:33 |
| Martyn | L1 cache in an ARM is split between data and instruction caches | 16:33 |
| Martyn | L2 caches are tiny (256k, or smaller in some cases) | 16:33 |
| Martyn | BUT | 16:33 |
| Martyn | they are peppy | 16:33 |
| ogra | the have arms ... the others dont :) | 16:33 |
| Martyn | and have far more MIPS per watt for lower $$ | 16:33 |
| Martyn | ogra : We got two PBX-A9's in | 16:34 |
| ogra | nice | 16:34 |
| Martyn | They run at 70Mhz, but have dual (and triple) core action | 16:34 |
| jordanucla | would a faster one of the ARMs be sufficient do play high quality video, flash, stuff like that? | 16:34 |
| Martyn | so I finally have real hardware to work with | 16:34 |
| Martyn | jordanucla : There is no flash player for ARM yet | 16:34 |
| Martyn | yet | 16:34 |
| jordanucla | ah, still porting | 16:34 |
| * ogra just had to send his hw away :/ | 16:34 | |
| Martyn | Adobe is working on the port | 16:34 |
| jordanucla | ya, I know they started | 16:34 |
| Martyn | ogra : Which hardware? | 16:34 |
| ogra | babbage | 16:34 |
| Martyn | awww .. b2's? | 16:35 |
| ogra | i'll get it back though | 16:35 |
| jordanucla | what about video and audio codecs? are they pretty widely ported? | 16:35 |
| Martyn | or b1's? | 16:35 |
| ogra | b2 | 16:35 |
| Martyn | jordanucla : all the codecs are ported | 16:35 |
| Martyn | jordanucla: THAT works :) | 16:35 |
| Martyn | and I can easily decode 1080p on a Cortex-A8 based system | 16:35 |
| ogra | the prob are most of the time the graphics drivers | 16:35 |
| jordanucla | cool | 16:35 |
| jordanucla | one last question -- | 16:35 |
| Martyn | In fact, most MID's are based on that chip now | 16:35 |
| ogra | not the codecs | 16:35 |
| Martyn | ogra : Yeah, I'm getting really tired of the crappy implementation for the PrimeCell video driver | 16:36 |
| ogra | Martyn, well, there is no opensource powerVR driver | 16:36 |
| Martyn | I'm now working with Kevin W. at ARM to make a better one | 16:36 |
| ogra | cool ! | 16:36 |
| jordanucla | with ARM is most hardware/boards/etc, mostly plug and play like x86. Or is it more like the older systems where things are treated as embedded and every ARM system can be very different? | 16:36 |
| Martyn | ogra :PowerVR will be next on that list | 16:36 |
| jordanucla | or will it usually mostly just work with ubuntu-arm | 16:36 |
| Martyn | the latter jordan, unfortunately | 16:36 |
| Martyn | we're working on that | 16:37 |
| ogra | jordanucla, every arm system is largerly different | 16:37 |
| Martyn | <-- is on the UEFI team now | 16:37 |
| Martyn | Which will bring a consistent bootloader to ARM | 16:37 |
| jordanucla | is there a list of recommended/supported configurations? | 16:37 |
| ogra | but the images we build in ubuntu are close to plug and play for the specific device we build it for | 16:37 |
| jordanucla | I see | 16:37 |
| jordanucla | thanks for the hard work guys | 16:37 |
| Martyn | ogra : And even devices you don't build it for. The armv5 buildroot has sped up my port to PBX | 16:37 |
| ogra | like the imx51 image we released functions similar to any x86 image you are used to with only minor differences | 16:38 |
| Martyn | ogra : I'll need help setting up a new build though, so that I can start compiling arm v7 | 16:38 |
| jordanucla | does the webpage have a list of supported/recommended devices? | 16:38 |
| Martyn | (and v6) | 16:38 |
| ogra | i'm just starting project rootstock, which is the former "build-arm-rootfs" ... you will be able to checkout the bzr branch and merge fixes | 16:39 |
| Martyn | ogra: Oh, and happy day .. beagleboard has seen the light, and will start adding SMSC ethernet to the beagleboard | 16:39 |
| kblin | oh? | 16:39 |
| Martyn | ogra : nod | 16:39 |
| ogra | jordanucla, well, the out of the box thing will only be imx51 from karmic on ... and if we get the code in time another SoC i cant talk about yet | 16:40 |
| Martyn | But it wil be a 'D' version rather than a variant of the 'C's | 16:40 |
| ogra | so if you want something that works out of the box try to get your hands on a pegatron laptop or some other imx51 based device | 16:40 |
| Martyn | ogra : N E C :) | 16:40 |
| ogra | is there a spec for "D" already ? | 16:40 |
| Martyn | ogra : It's coming together | 16:41 |
| ogra | cool | 16:41 |
| Martyn | ogra : I'm hoping to get my hands on some NEC silicon | 16:41 |
| ogra | nice | 16:41 |
| Martyn | they have an a9 w/ dual core | 16:41 |
| Martyn | but getting my hands on the hardware is going to take dicey negotiations by the business team | 16:41 |
| ogra | well, for the "other" board i was mentioning above we might even get free GL drivers that work :) | 16:41 |
| Martyn | Oh, THAT board! | 16:41 |
| * Martyn is so jealous | 16:42 | |
| ogra | but its still not clear we get all code drops in time for karmic | 16:42 |
| Martyn | it's not an A9 though :) | 16:42 |
| ogra | a6 with 7 extensions | 16:42 |
| Martyn | I'm not even allowed to look at non v7 anymore :( | 16:42 |
| ogra | so call it a6+ :) | 16:42 |
| Martyn | yep, I know it. | 16:42 |
| ogra | it is v7 compatible | 16:42 |
| Martyn | It's kind of a weird mishmash core | 16:42 |
| Martyn | no, it's v6 with some v7 instructions | 16:43 |
| ogra | enough to make it speedy and use a6+vfp | 16:43 |
| ogra | not so sure about NEON though | 16:43 |
| Martyn | the arm-cc compiler will do it, and eventually codesourcery too .. but how long will it be before we see support for that mish-mashy processor in gcc-main? | 16:43 |
| ogra | we will | 16:43 |
| Martyn | much less real NEON in gcc-main? | 16:43 |
| Martyn | which I'm waiting for | 16:44 |
| ogra | simply because we build images for that board | 16:44 |
| Martyn | not to mention tons of corrections which are needed in glibc | 16:44 |
| Martyn | because memcpy/memmove are horrible right now | 16:44 |
| Martyn | I did some performance testing, and things are much slower than they should be, and could be | 16:44 |
| * ogra heard different things ... but i dont have the HW yet | 16:45 | |
| Martyn | ogra : Once I have a kernel booted on PBX1 and PBX2, I'll give you a remote shell in to look | 16:45 |
| Martyn | it's ... interesting in there | 16:45 |
| Martyn | although I'll be using our v5 jaunty rootfs | 16:45 |
| Martyn | lool will have to show me how to do a full ubuntu build with v6 (or v7) optimizations | 16:46 |
| Martyn | As it is, I have today off :) | 16:49 |
| Martyn | Tomorrow is American Indepedence day, so hopefully I'll have some fun | 16:49 |
| broonie | Does anyone have any info on how the process of upstreaming the ARM kernel changes you guys are carriying is progressing? | 16:49 |
| Martyn | broonie : which changes? | 16:49 |
| Martyn | (There is a patchwork of patches) | 16:50 |
| Martyn | most things end up in the arm linux org git tree | 16:51 |
| ogra | broonie, amitk would know ... but i think a good bunch of the imx51 stuff was rejected last time | 16:52 |
| Martyn | yep | 16:54 |
| Martyn | however freescale is resubmitting a number of the patches | 16:54 |
| broonie | Martyn: drivers, architecture... | 16:55 |
| broonie | ogra: Hrm, I hadn't noticed any of it going past TBH. Thanks. | 16:56 |
| ogra | well, he tried to get it in for jaunty ... not sure whats the current status for .30 and above | 16:56 |
| Martyn | ogra : mismash of things happening on the linux-arm.org git tree, but I haven't seen the patches merged yet | 16:57 |
| ogra | as i said, rejected | 16:58 |
| === bjf_afk is now known as bjf | ||
| broonie | That's just the thumb stuff they're carrying, isn't it? | 16:58 |
| Martyn | there are also a bunch of Cortex-A9 patches that are about to hit. | 16:58 |
| bjf | broonie, upstream want all the imx51 changes rewritten | 16:58 |
| broonie | Which upstream? | 16:59 |
| ogra | linux-arm | 16:59 |
| bjf | broonie, as ogra said | 16:59 |
| broonie | ogra: Who/what do you mean when you say linux-arm? | 16:59 |
| Martyn | linux-arm.org, specifically Russel King | 17:00 |
| ogra | right | 17:00 |
| broonie | linux-arm.org isn't rmk. | 17:00 |
| broonie | I think... | 17:00 |
| Martyn | no | 17:00 |
| Martyn | all ARM inclusions into mainline have to pass rmk's inspection | 17:00 |
| broonie | Yeah, that's arm ltd. | 17:00 |
| * Martyn has a lot of rewrites to do as well, to support SMP on arm properly | 17:01 | |
| broonie | That's what I was querying - if it was linux-arm-kernel/rmk. | 17:01 |
| bjf | broonie, i believe it is the penguintronix guys specifically | 17:01 |
| broonie | or if it was some other people who feed into them (eg, imx changes will need to coordinate with the pengutronix guys). | 17:01 |
| broonie | Ah, makes sense. | 17:02 |
| armin76 | Martyn: smp on arm? cortex a9? | 17:05 |
| ogra | armin76, yeah, he is showing off again with his ricer hardware *g* | 17:05 |
| ogra | armin76, 70MHz dual cores :) | 17:08 |
| Martyn | armin76 : Yep | 17:11 |
| Martyn | Hey, at least it's hardware, and not just FastModel or System C simulation | 17:12 |
| ogra | heh | 17:12 |
| Martyn | (although the FastModel runs at about 125Mhz) | 17:12 |
| Martyn | armin76 : Still, getting everything working, and getting everything working _well_, are two different things | 17:15 |
| Martyn | my job is to get all the ACPI modes supported | 17:15 |
| Martyn | and that's a big, tall order | 17:15 |
| Martyn | Right now, we have S3. That's it | 17:15 |
| Martyn | So you can sleep, and you can wake. Woo. | 17:15 |
| Martyn | That's not a lot of power savings | 17:15 |
| Martyn | I need to get cpuidle working well, get a couple better governors in there, etc. | 17:16 |
| ian_brasil | ogra, project rootstock sounds cool | 17:32 |
| ogra | thanks :) | 17:33 |
| === bjf is now known as bjf_afk | ||
| Shmeck | hi | 21:25 |
| Shmeck | anyone here by any chance? | 21:30 |
| === cbrake is now known as cbrake_away | ||
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