=== dyfet_ is now known as dyfet === cbrake_away is now known as cbrake [16:30] Hi all, is there somewhere that lists the differences between ubuntu and ubuntu-arm? Going to build a little home NFS/music/X10/torrent server so thinking to use ARM, but wondering if it will be powerful enough for the basic things I need. [16:31] jordanucla : Just about all the packages in main, and most of the packages in universe are there [16:32] as for "powerful" .. umm .. it depends on the processor? [16:32] If you're running a Shivaplug, it's going to be 'meh' [16:32] if you're running a babbage board, it's going to be 'meh+' [16:32] would you say Arm processors are usually equivalent to x86 in terms of model? [16:32] i.e. 800mhz arm == 800mhz x86 [16:32] or not that simple? [16:32] that question makes no sense [16:32] RISC vs CISC [16:33] ya, poorly phrased [16:33] entire architectural differences [16:33] L1 cache in an ARM is split between data and instruction caches [16:33] L2 caches are tiny (256k, or smaller in some cases) [16:33] BUT [16:33] they are peppy [16:33] the have arms ... the others dont :) [16:33] and have far more MIPS per watt for lower $$ [16:34] ogra : We got two PBX-A9's in [16:34] nice [16:34] They run at 70Mhz, but have dual (and triple) core action [16:34] would a faster one of the ARMs be sufficient do play high quality video, flash, stuff like that? [16:34] so I finally have real hardware to work with [16:34] jordanucla : There is no flash player for ARM yet [16:34] yet [16:34] ah, still porting [16:34] * ogra just had to send his hw away :/ [16:34] Adobe is working on the port [16:34] ya, I know they started [16:34] ogra : Which hardware? [16:34] babbage [16:35] awww .. b2's? [16:35] i'll get it back though [16:35] what about video and audio codecs? are they pretty widely ported? [16:35] or b1's? [16:35] b2 [16:35] jordanucla : all the codecs are ported [16:35] jordanucla: THAT works :) [16:35] and I can easily decode 1080p on a Cortex-A8 based system [16:35] the prob are most of the time the graphics drivers [16:35] cool [16:35] one last question -- [16:35] In fact, most MID's are based on that chip now [16:35] not the codecs [16:36] ogra : Yeah, I'm getting really tired of the crappy implementation for the PrimeCell video driver [16:36] Martyn, well, there is no opensource powerVR driver [16:36] I'm now working with Kevin W. at ARM to make a better one [16:36] cool ! [16:36] with ARM is most hardware/boards/etc, mostly plug and play like x86. Or is it more like the older systems where things are treated as embedded and every ARM system can be very different? [16:36] ogra :PowerVR will be next on that list [16:36] or will it usually mostly just work with ubuntu-arm [16:36] the latter jordan, unfortunately [16:37] we're working on that [16:37] jordanucla, every arm system is largerly different [16:37] <-- is on the UEFI team now [16:37] Which will bring a consistent bootloader to ARM [16:37] is there a list of recommended/supported configurations? [16:37] but the images we build in ubuntu are close to plug and play for the specific device we build it for [16:37] I see [16:37] thanks for the hard work guys [16:37] ogra : And even devices you don't build it for. The armv5 buildroot has sped up my port to PBX [16:38] like the imx51 image we released functions similar to any x86 image you are used to with only minor differences [16:38] ogra : I'll need help setting up a new build though, so that I can start compiling arm v7 [16:38] does the webpage have a list of supported/recommended devices? [16:38] (and v6) [16:39] i'm just starting project rootstock, which is the former "build-arm-rootfs" ... you will be able to checkout the bzr branch and merge fixes [16:39] ogra: Oh, and happy day .. beagleboard has seen the light, and will start adding SMSC ethernet to the beagleboard [16:39] oh? [16:39] ogra : nod [16:40] jordanucla, well, the out of the box thing will only be imx51 from karmic on ... and if we get the code in time another SoC i cant talk about yet [16:40] But it wil be a 'D' version rather than a variant of the 'C's [16:40] so if you want something that works out of the box try to get your hands on a pegatron laptop or some other imx51 based device [16:40] ogra : N E C :) [16:40] is there a spec for "D" already ? [16:41] ogra : It's coming together [16:41] cool [16:41] ogra : I'm hoping to get my hands on some NEC silicon [16:41] nice [16:41] they have an a9 w/ dual core [16:41] but getting my hands on the hardware is going to take dicey negotiations by the business team [16:41] well, for the "other" board i was mentioning above we might even get free GL drivers that work :) [16:41] Oh, THAT board! [16:42] * Martyn is so jealous [16:42] but its still not clear we get all code drops in time for karmic [16:42] it's not an A9 though :) [16:42] a6 with 7 extensions [16:42] I'm not even allowed to look at non v7 anymore :( [16:42] so call it a6+ :) [16:42] yep, I know it. [16:42] it is v7 compatible [16:42] It's kind of a weird mishmash core [16:43] no, it's v6 with some v7 instructions [16:43] enough to make it speedy and use a6+vfp [16:43] not so sure about NEON though [16:43] the arm-cc compiler will do it, and eventually codesourcery too .. but how long will it be before we see support for that mish-mashy processor in gcc-main? [16:43] we will [16:43] much less real NEON in gcc-main? [16:44] which I'm waiting for [16:44] simply because we build images for that board [16:44] not to mention tons of corrections which are needed in glibc [16:44] because memcpy/memmove are horrible right now [16:44] I did some performance testing, and things are much slower than they should be, and could be [16:45] * ogra heard different things ... but i dont have the HW yet [16:45] ogra : Once I have a kernel booted on PBX1 and PBX2, I'll give you a remote shell in to look [16:45] it's ... interesting in there [16:45] although I'll be using our v5 jaunty rootfs [16:46] lool will have to show me how to do a full ubuntu build with v6 (or v7) optimizations [16:49] As it is, I have today off :) [16:49] Tomorrow is American Indepedence day, so hopefully I'll have some fun [16:49] Does anyone have any info on how the process of upstreaming the ARM kernel changes you guys are carriying is progressing? [16:49] broonie : which changes? [16:50] (There is a patchwork of patches) [16:51] most things end up in the arm linux org git tree [16:52] broonie, amitk would know ... but i think a good bunch of the imx51 stuff was rejected last time [16:54] yep [16:54] however freescale is resubmitting a number of the patches [16:55] Martyn: drivers, architecture... [16:56] ogra: Hrm, I hadn't noticed any of it going past TBH. Thanks. [16:56] well, he tried to get it in for jaunty ... not sure whats the current status for .30 and above [16:57] ogra : mismash of things happening on the linux-arm.org git tree, but I haven't seen the patches merged yet [16:58] as i said, rejected === bjf_afk is now known as bjf [16:58] That's just the thumb stuff they're carrying, isn't it? [16:58] there are also a bunch of Cortex-A9 patches that are about to hit. [16:58] broonie, upstream want all the imx51 changes rewritten [16:59] Which upstream? [16:59] linux-arm [16:59] broonie, as ogra said [16:59] ogra: Who/what do you mean when you say linux-arm? [17:00] linux-arm.org, specifically Russel King [17:00] right [17:00] linux-arm.org isn't rmk. [17:00] I think... [17:00] no [17:00] all ARM inclusions into mainline have to pass rmk's inspection [17:00] Yeah, that's arm ltd. [17:01] * Martyn has a lot of rewrites to do as well, to support SMP on arm properly [17:01] That's what I was querying - if it was linux-arm-kernel/rmk. [17:01] broonie, i believe it is the penguintronix guys specifically [17:01] or if it was some other people who feed into them (eg, imx changes will need to coordinate with the pengutronix guys). [17:02] Ah, makes sense. [17:05] Martyn: smp on arm? cortex a9? [17:05] armin76, yeah, he is showing off again with his ricer hardware *g* [17:08] armin76, 70MHz dual cores :) [17:11] armin76 : Yep [17:12] Hey, at least it's hardware, and not just FastModel or System C simulation [17:12] heh [17:12] (although the FastModel runs at about 125Mhz) [17:15] armin76 : Still, getting everything working, and getting everything working _well_, are two different things [17:15] my job is to get all the ACPI modes supported [17:15] and that's a big, tall order [17:15] Right now, we have S3. That's it [17:15] So you can sleep, and you can wake. Woo. [17:15] That's not a lot of power savings [17:16] I need to get cpuidle working well, get a couple better governors in there, etc. [17:32] ogra, project rootstock sounds cool [17:33] thanks :) === bjf is now known as bjf_afk [21:25] hi [21:30] anyone here by any chance? === cbrake is now known as cbrake_away