[16:30] <jordanucla> Hi all, is there somewhere that lists the differences between ubuntu and ubuntu-arm? Going to build a little home NFS/music/X10/torrent server so thinking to use ARM, but wondering if it will be powerful enough for the basic things I need.
[16:31] <Martyn> jordanucla : Just about all the packages in main, and most of the packages in universe are there
[16:32] <Martyn> as for "powerful" .. umm .. it depends on the processor?
[16:32] <Martyn> If you're running a Shivaplug, it's going to be 'meh'
[16:32] <Martyn> if you're running a babbage board, it's going to be 'meh+'
[16:32] <jordanucla> would you say Arm processors are usually equivalent to x86 in terms of model?
[16:32] <jordanucla> i.e. 800mhz arm == 800mhz x86
[16:32] <jordanucla> or not that simple?
[16:32] <Martyn> that question makes no sense
[16:32] <Martyn> RISC vs CISC
[16:33] <jordanucla> ya, poorly phrased
[16:33] <Martyn> entire architectural differences
[16:33] <Martyn> L1 cache in an ARM is split between data and instruction caches
[16:33] <Martyn> L2 caches are tiny (256k, or smaller in some cases)
[16:33] <Martyn> BUT
[16:33] <Martyn> they are peppy
[16:33] <ogra> the have arms ... the others dont :)
[16:33] <Martyn> and have far more MIPS per watt for lower $$
[16:34] <Martyn> ogra : We got two PBX-A9's in
[16:34] <ogra> nice
[16:34] <Martyn> They run at 70Mhz, but have dual (and triple) core action
[16:34] <jordanucla> would a faster one of the ARMs be sufficient do play high quality video, flash, stuff like that?
[16:34] <Martyn> so I finally have real hardware to work with
[16:34] <Martyn> jordanucla : There is no flash player for ARM yet
[16:34] <Martyn> yet
[16:34] <jordanucla> ah, still porting
[16:34]  * ogra just had to send his hw away :/
[16:34] <Martyn> Adobe is working on the port
[16:34] <jordanucla> ya, I know they started
[16:34] <Martyn> ogra : Which hardware?
[16:34] <ogra> babbage
[16:35] <Martyn> awww .. b2's?
[16:35] <ogra> i'll get it back though
[16:35] <jordanucla> what about video and audio codecs? are they pretty widely ported?
[16:35] <Martyn> or b1's?
[16:35] <ogra> b2
[16:35] <Martyn> jordanucla : all the codecs are ported
[16:35] <Martyn> jordanucla: THAT works :)
[16:35] <Martyn> and I can easily decode 1080p on a Cortex-A8 based system
[16:35] <ogra> the prob are most of the time the graphics drivers
[16:35] <jordanucla> cool
[16:35] <jordanucla> one last question --
[16:35] <Martyn> In fact, most MID's are based on that chip now
[16:35] <ogra> not the codecs
[16:36] <Martyn> ogra : Yeah, I'm getting really tired of the crappy implementation for the PrimeCell video driver
[16:36] <ogra> Martyn, well, there is no opensource powerVR driver
[16:36] <Martyn> I'm now working with Kevin W. at ARM to make a better one
[16:36] <ogra> cool !
[16:36] <jordanucla> with ARM is most hardware/boards/etc, mostly plug and play like x86. Or is it more like the older systems where things are treated as embedded and every ARM system can be very different?
[16:36] <Martyn> ogra :PowerVR will be next on that list
[16:36] <jordanucla> or will it usually mostly just work with ubuntu-arm
[16:36] <Martyn> the latter jordan, unfortunately
[16:37] <Martyn> we're working on that
[16:37] <ogra> jordanucla, every arm system is largerly different
[16:37] <Martyn> <-- is on the UEFI team now
[16:37] <Martyn> Which will bring a consistent bootloader to ARM
[16:37] <jordanucla> is there a list of recommended/supported configurations?
[16:37] <ogra> but the images we build in ubuntu are close to plug and play for the specific device we build it for
[16:37] <jordanucla> I see
[16:37] <jordanucla> thanks for the hard work guys
[16:37] <Martyn> ogra : And even devices you don't build it for.  The armv5 buildroot has sped up my port to PBX
[16:38] <ogra> like the imx51 image we released functions similar to any x86 image you are used to with only minor differences
[16:38] <Martyn> ogra : I'll need help setting up a new build though, so that I can start compiling arm v7
[16:38] <jordanucla> does the webpage have a list of supported/recommended devices?
[16:38] <Martyn> (and v6)
[16:39] <ogra> i'm just starting project rootstock, which is the former "build-arm-rootfs" ... you will be able to checkout the bzr branch and merge fixes
[16:39] <Martyn> ogra: Oh, and happy day .. beagleboard has seen the light, and will start adding SMSC ethernet to the beagleboard
[16:39] <kblin> oh?
[16:39] <Martyn> ogra : nod
[16:40] <ogra> jordanucla, well, the out of the box thing will only be imx51 from karmic on ... and if we get the code in time another SoC i cant talk about yet
[16:40] <Martyn> But it wil be a 'D' version rather than a variant of the 'C's
[16:40] <ogra> so if you want something that works out of the box try to get your hands on a pegatron laptop or some other imx51 based device
[16:40] <Martyn> ogra : N E C :)
[16:40] <ogra> is there a spec for "D" already ?
[16:41] <Martyn> ogra : It's coming together
[16:41] <ogra> cool
[16:41] <Martyn> ogra : I'm hoping to get my hands on some NEC silicon
[16:41] <ogra> nice
[16:41] <Martyn> they have an a9 w/ dual core
[16:41] <Martyn> but getting my hands on the hardware is going to take dicey negotiations by the business team
[16:41] <ogra> well, for the "other" board i was mentioning above we might even get free GL drivers that work :)
[16:41] <Martyn> Oh, THAT board!
[16:42]  * Martyn is so jealous
[16:42] <ogra> but its still not clear we get all code drops in time for karmic
[16:42] <Martyn> it's not an A9 though :)
[16:42] <ogra> a6 with 7 extensions
[16:42] <Martyn> I'm not even allowed to look at non v7 anymore :(
[16:42] <ogra> so call it a6+ :)
[16:42] <Martyn> yep, I know it.
[16:42] <ogra> it is v7 compatible
[16:42] <Martyn> It's kind of a weird mishmash core
[16:43] <Martyn> no, it's v6 with some v7 instructions
[16:43] <ogra> enough to make it speedy and use a6+vfp
[16:43] <ogra> not so sure about NEON though
[16:43] <Martyn> the arm-cc compiler will do it, and eventually codesourcery too .. but how long will it be before we see support for that mish-mashy processor in gcc-main?
[16:43] <ogra> we will
[16:43] <Martyn> much less real NEON in gcc-main?
[16:44] <Martyn> which I'm waiting for
[16:44] <ogra> simply because we build images for that board
[16:44] <Martyn> not to mention tons of corrections which are needed in glibc
[16:44] <Martyn> because memcpy/memmove are horrible right now
[16:44] <Martyn> I did some performance testing, and things are much slower than they should be, and could be
[16:45]  * ogra heard different things ... but i dont have the HW yet
[16:45] <Martyn> ogra : Once I have a kernel booted on PBX1 and PBX2, I'll give you a remote shell in to look
[16:45] <Martyn> it's ... interesting in there
[16:45] <Martyn> although I'll be using our v5 jaunty rootfs
[16:46] <Martyn> lool will have to show me how to do a full ubuntu build with v6 (or v7) optimizations
[16:49] <Martyn> As it is, I have today off :)
[16:49] <Martyn> Tomorrow is American Indepedence day, so hopefully I'll have some fun
[16:49] <broonie> Does anyone have any info on how the process of upstreaming the ARM kernel changes you guys are carriying is progressing?
[16:49] <Martyn> broonie : which changes?
[16:50] <Martyn> (There is a patchwork of patches)
[16:51] <Martyn> most things end up in the arm linux org git tree
[16:52] <ogra> broonie, amitk would know ... but i think a good bunch of the imx51 stuff was rejected last time
[16:54] <Martyn> yep
[16:54] <Martyn> however freescale is resubmitting a number of the patches
[16:55] <broonie> Martyn: drivers, architecture...
[16:56] <broonie> ogra: Hrm, I hadn't noticed any of it going past TBH. Thanks.
[16:56] <ogra> well, he tried to get it in for jaunty ... not sure whats the current status for .30 and above
[16:57] <Martyn> ogra : mismash of things happening on the linux-arm.org git tree, but I haven't seen the patches merged yet
[16:58] <ogra> as i said, rejected
[16:58] <broonie> That's just the thumb stuff they're carrying, isn't it?
[16:58] <Martyn> there are also a bunch of Cortex-A9 patches that are about to hit.
[16:58] <bjf> broonie, upstream want all the imx51 changes rewritten
[16:59] <broonie> Which upstream?
[16:59] <ogra> linux-arm
[16:59] <bjf> broonie, as ogra said
[16:59] <broonie> ogra: Who/what do you mean when you say linux-arm?
[17:00] <Martyn> linux-arm.org, specifically Russel King
[17:00] <ogra> right
[17:00] <broonie> linux-arm.org isn't rmk.
[17:00] <broonie> I think...
[17:00] <Martyn> no
[17:00] <Martyn> all ARM inclusions into mainline have to pass rmk's inspection
[17:00] <broonie> Yeah, that's arm ltd.
[17:01]  * Martyn has a lot of rewrites to do as well, to support SMP on arm properly
[17:01] <broonie> That's what I was querying - if it was linux-arm-kernel/rmk.
[17:01] <bjf> broonie, i believe it is the penguintronix guys specifically
[17:01] <broonie> or if it was some other people who feed into them (eg, imx changes will need to coordinate with the pengutronix guys).
[17:02] <broonie> Ah, makes sense.
[17:05] <armin76> Martyn: smp on arm? cortex a9?
[17:05] <ogra> armin76, yeah, he is showing off again with his ricer hardware *g*
[17:08] <ogra> armin76, 70MHz dual cores :)
[17:11] <Martyn> armin76 : Yep
[17:12] <Martyn> Hey, at least it's hardware, and not just FastModel or System C simulation
[17:12] <ogra> heh
[17:12] <Martyn> (although the FastModel runs at about 125Mhz)
[17:15] <Martyn> armin76 : Still, getting everything working, and getting everything working _well_, are two different things
[17:15] <Martyn> my job is to get all the ACPI modes supported
[17:15] <Martyn> and that's a big, tall order
[17:15] <Martyn> Right now, we have S3.  That's it
[17:15] <Martyn> So you can sleep, and you can wake.  Woo.
[17:15] <Martyn> That's not a lot of power savings
[17:16] <Martyn> I need to get cpuidle working well, get a couple better governors in there, etc.
[17:32] <ian_brasil> ogra, project rootstock sounds cool
[17:33] <ogra> thanks :)
[21:25] <Shmeck> hi
[21:30] <Shmeck> anyone here by any chance?