TheMusoOk that was weird. My whole session just died on me with no warning.03:08
TheMusoUsing new gdm.03:08
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
hyperairhuh the new gdm doesn't allow me to shutdown any more.06:54
TheMusohyperair: Works for me.07:04
TheMusoHowever, the touchpad on my notebook is not working, this after a fresh install from a daily.07:07
pittiGood morning07:14
hyperairmy touchpad still works07:50
didrocksmorning o/08:14
crevettesalit didrocks08:29
pittihey didrocks, morning crevette08:38
didrocksplop crevette, morning pitti08:55
didrockshey asac08:56
asachi didrocks08:57
pittihey asac08:58
crevettehello pitti08:59
asachmm launchpad seems to forget that i am logged in recently09:01
didrocksasac: pitti and I have the same trouble those days09:05
asacgood ;)09:08
pittiasac: FSVO "good"09:37
pittigvfs (1.3.1-0ubuntu3) UNRELEASED; urgency=low09:38
pitti  The "bye-bye, hal!" release.09:38
pittimy long nights of porting work weren't in vain09:39
rickspencer3congrats pitti09:39
pittihey rickspencer3, unusual time :)09:40
pittihow's the summit?09:40
rickspencer3I slept late today, 8:30am!09:40
pittinot surprising09:40
rickspencer3summit really starts tonight09:40
rickspencer3with our party!09:41
rickspencer3today, me = get quickly demo working + get quickly package working + update tutorial :o09:41
pittishouldn't the party be at the _end_ of the work? :-)09:41
pittirickspencer3: have gnome-shell running already?09:41
pittididrocks: BTW, seeems I still need the -dev09:42
rickspencer3I brought my eee running Jaunty09:42
rickspencer3so no gnome shell for me, at least until after my talk on Sunday09:42
rickspencer3then maybe it's time to upgrade to Karmic09:42
didrockspitti: really? let me see again09:43
didrocks(finishing a email to rickspencer3 first ;))09:43
pittididrocks: didn't try this morning yet, though; don't worry, low urgency09:43
=== asac_ is now known as asac
asacRiddell: msg ;)10:09
asacpitti: so on hal: we wont get rid of hal in NM 0.7.2 ... the udev patch is just too intrusive. means: unless we ship a cracky 0.8 snapshot we will need to wait one cycle to demote hal.10:11
asacam i supposed to add that to that wiki page?10:11
pittiasac: hm, a pity10:12
pittiasac: demoting is not my primary concern10:12
pittiit's shipping/installing hal by default10:12
pittiit takes boot time, maintenance, etc.10:12
pittiI guess backporting http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/commit/?id=c9067d8fedf6f6f2d530fd68bbfca7ce68638d38 would be quite a challenge, indeed10:12
pittiasac: if we need it still, so be it10:13
pittiwe still have all the other bits ported already, so the structural changes in LL won't be so many10:13
asacnot sure how much folks would hate me for shipping a 0.8 pre snapshot ... its quite stable for me, but you know how it is: if its a snapshot and its the driver they wine for ages that its NM fault and how bad we are ;)10:14
asacotoh, it would help to flash out bugs for LTS10:14
pittiasac: I think it's your call, as the NM expert, but I'd advise you to consider whether it's wise to do that major step in LL10:15
pittiKarmic will be crackful either way, but I'd like the intrusive changes to be in Karmic, not in LL10:15
asaci definitly would need to talk to dan10:15
asacpitti: i see that10:15
pittiasac: don't let the hal issue alone drive that decision only, of course :)10:16
asacits just that we have some quite challenging todos for 0.8 so we hoped to do a 0.7.2 this cycle .... but well ;)10:16
asacpitti: sure not.10:16
pittiif 0.8 is just not ready yet, then so be it10:16
asac0.8 is also modemmanager based10:16
asacand modemmanager is now also migrated to udev (almost completely)10:16
asaci will think about it ;)10:17
asacand talk to dan. if we go for this, we probably want it in asap ... so we can back it out if there are too many problems i cannot fix10:17
asacstay tuned ;)10:18
pittiand to collect the problems in the first place10:18
asacpitti: so is this info needed on the dehalificatio nwiki?10:18
pittiasac: do you have this in a PPA by any chance?10:18
pittiasac: I just changed it to "no upstream release yet"10:18
asacpitti: yes. i have a trunk PPA ... but its the first package round i havent even tested on my own yet ;)10:18
pittiasac: feel free to add it there, of course10:18
pittimeh, CDs still don't build10:19
* pitti pokes10:19
asaci will try to get bugabundo or someone else eager on it to get some initial testing ;)10:19
pittiI'm happy to help testing (eth/iwl3945/wpa2, boring and very common :) )10:20
pittiasac: btw, does 0.8 switch from iw to cfg80211 already?10:20
asacyeah. but only once i know it works ;)10:20
asacpitti: NM uses wpasupplicant ... its not doing any wireless on its own10:21
pittiah, so that won't be updated10:21
asacwe are using wext driver10:21
asacpitti: well ... i see that wpa_supplicant has nl80211 driver;)10:22
asacwe could give that a shoot10:22
asacthough that would probably need to be a driver specific hack10:22
pittiah, "wext" sounds like "iw", yes10:22
asace.g. for intel, use nl80211 ... otherwise wxec10:22
pittivery few drivers support cfg80211 yet, though10:22
asaci think all in mainline kernel10:22
asacexcept the old ones like ipw2x0010:22
asacbut no clue how mature ;)10:23
tjaaltonwhy does the gnome session reset my keymap to us?10:25
tjaaltonworks in gdm10:26
asacit did that for me too10:26
asacalso while upgrading it locked the screen and i had to log-in10:26
tjaaltonperhaps it's the new gdm doing tricks?10:26
tjaaltonfalling back to system defaults from the capplet restores the correct one10:27
tjaaltonbut only for the running session10:27
asacbug 39505710:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395057 in malone "bug search in teams broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39505710:28
asactjaalton: i thought it was gdm problem yes10:29
asacalso thought, lets wait if its transitional ;)10:29
tjaaltonyeah, I'll check back after the weekend :)10:30
rickspencer3ArneGoetje: asac: bryce: ccheney: kenvandine: pitti: Riddell: TheMuso: gentle reminder that date has changed for expense reports being due (now need to be signed off by the 5th ... so get them to me tomorrow if you have any outstanding expenses)10:33
* ajmitch really shouldn't try & run karmic on here, gdm is being nasty to me again10:38
pittiajmitch: --verbose?10:39
ajmitchis there a bug open about not being able to start the gdm greeter?10:39
pittiI doubt it, we just switched to it yesterday in karmic10:39
ajmitchok :)10:39
pittia few of us have had it running for some weeks before, though10:39
pittiajmitch: what does it say?10:40
* ajmitch only just upgraded after having the X session die 3 times already this evening10:40
ajmitchone sec10:40
rickspencer3someone mentioned to me that an upload yesterday *did* break gdm10:40
ajmitch"Cannot start the greeter application, you will not be able to login"10:40
pittiit was probably "gdm" :)10:40
asacrickspencer3: thanks for the update10:40
ajmitch /var/log/syslog has a single line about not being able to start it10:41
* ajmitch checks to see if he has a non-default config10:41
brycerickspencer3, all mine are in10:41
pittiajmitch: anything helpful in /var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log ?10:41
pittiajmitch: (beware: f***ed permissions, needs root)10:41
* rickspencer3 takes his poor grasp of Spanish to explore Las Palmas before DS starts10:41
asachave fun10:41
pittirickspencer3: "Dos cervesas, por favor", and "gracias" will get you quite far :-P10:42
rickspencer3dns stopped resolving in the hotel, so I'm taking that as a sign10:42
ajmitchpitti: I have no such log10:42
=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk
rickspencer3-afkpitti: donde esta la playa?10:42
ajmitchI don't have an upgraded X yet, I was still upgrading the rest of things :)10:43
pittiajmitch: the same source package should have worked in jaunty as well, hmm10:43
ajmitchyeah, what can I turn on to get more debugging info?10:43
* pitti is not really with new gdm yet either, hang on10:44
pittiajmitch: do you have a non-empty /etc/gdm/custom.conf ?10:44
ajmitchit exists but the sections such as [chooser] are empty10:45
pittiright, here too10:45
ajmitchI also have gdm.conf-custom with similar sections10:45
pittiajmitch: what's in /var/log/gdm?10:45
ajmitchhm, I have a :1-greeter.log in there10:45
pittihm, no :0? weird10:46
pittiand nothing else?10:46
pittiit should also have an Xorg log10:46
ajmitchone sec, I may be able to pastebinit :)10:46
* ajmitch should probably switch to the laptop which has working X still10:47
pittiajmitch: so, perhaps you could do:10:48
pitti- stop gdm10:48
pitti- purge all logs10:48
pitti-start gdm10:48
pitti- paste the created logs?10:48
ajmitchsure, can try that10:48
ajmitchtoo used to stopping apache2, almost killed that off instead10:48
geserajmitch: I had the same problem yesterday when I updated gdm. it went away after a reboot10:49
ajmitchgreat to know :)10:50
ajmitchI have a bit more to upgrade (kernel, X) before I can do a reboot10:50
ajmitchI've stopped gdm, but X is still running with that greeter error10:51
ajmitchit *looks* like there's an old gdm process from about 2 months ago still running10:51
ajmitchI'll kill that one & restart gdm10:52
ajmitchok, apart from having a completly white desktop with nothing visible but a mouse cursor, I'm in :)10:55
ajmitchbut that's a minor aesthetic detail, right?10:55
pittiajmitch: ah, that would be it10:55
pittiajmitch: it's the new karmic theme10:55
pittivery clean and fresh10:55
pittimuch less disturbing than all this gnome crap10:56
pittiajmitch: if you upgraded to karmic and didn't reboot for 2 months, then you should have much worse problems, though :)10:56
ajmitch56 days, so I still have about 5 days to go before I have problems, right? ;)10:58
ajmitchproblem was, I had X randomly dying in the middle of me doing stuff, such as installing upgrades in synaptic10:59
ajmitchnothing in syslog to indicate segfaults that I could see11:00
bryceajmitch, X crash or freeze?11:00
ajmitchbryce: I wasn't sure if it was X or gdm that was crashing, but it wasn't a freeze11:01
ajmitchand this is with a jaunty X server & nvidia driver11:01
* ajmitch is just upgrading those to karmic versions now11:01
brycenvidia *shudder*11:02
ajmitchyou aren't a fan of nvidia? :)11:02
pittibryce: for bug 377090, is the kernel update enough, or does it need more userspace fixes?11:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 377090 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945gm] (Needs kernel 2.6.31) DRI2 swapbuffers" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37709011:02
brycepitti, kernel ought to be enough11:03
pittibryce: the upstream bug just has a kernel fix11:03
pittibut that bug has mesa, x11proto, etc. tasks11:03
bryceajmitch, the nvidia people I like, but the driver itself, notsomuch11:03
pittibryce: so shall we close it and see if anyone yells "still there"?11:03
brycepitti, that sounds fine11:04
pittiI sent a call for testing yesterday, but no reply11:04
ajmitchbryce: well I'm about to be brave & try the 185 driver on 2.6.3111:04
pittibryce: ok, "proactive bug cleaning" then :)11:04
bryceajmitch, bravo11:04
brycepitti, good11:04
pittibryce: thanks11:04
pittibryce: btw, nice "bug storm" blog posts11:04
pittiwell, "nice" -> "good read"11:05
* ajmitch just hopes that the little things like mdadm & lvm2 still work on reboot11:05
brycepitti, thanks11:09
pittibug 341898 seems fixed as well, closing11:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 341898 in xorg-server "MythTV Frontend does not work with RADEON DRI" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34189811:09
didrockspitti: libmutter0*-0ubuntu3 depends anymore on libclutter-dev. Is it failing when launching it? (I only have a VirtualBox at work, so, no 3D acceleration, but mutter seems to start and run)11:09
brycepitti, yeah I hope it gives enough food for thought to generate some solutions to this specific problem.11:10
pittididrocks: is it in the PPA now?11:10
pittididrocks: I dist-upgraded/started g-s last night, it still failed without -dev11:10
didrockspitti: apt-cache policy libmutter0 ?11:10
pittibryce: I like the general idea of karma restrictions, but the "lock out upstream" is a problem11:10
pittididrocks: 2.27.0~git090630-0ubuntu311:10
pittididrocks: it might have been upgraded this morning; give me some minutes, I'll try it again soon11:11
didrockspitti: ok, you have the last verion. What error message do you have?11:11
pittiyay CDs! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20090703.3/11:11
pittinow with new gdm11:11
brycepitti, yeah me too, but one of the commenters to my post had a tweak that I think might solve that in a really nice way11:11
pittibryce: oh?11:11
bryceyay dailies11:11
superm1pitti, bug 341898's upstream bug was only fixed for -vesa I thought11:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 341898 in xorg-server "MythTV Frontend does not work with RADEON DRI" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34189811:11
superm1at least no one has commented otherwise for -ATI11:12
pittisuperm1: oh, you yourself closed the upstream one, saying that this mesa commit fixed it?11:12
pittiso should it be reopened upstream against mesa then?11:12
superm1yeah it should.  the discussion about -ATI headed with upstream disagreeing and saying it's a QT bug and nothing happening11:12
brycepitti, basically, couple restrictions with length-of-post, so it only kicks in for low karma users if the post-length is small.11:13
superm1mythtv 0.22 should be coming out during the karmic cycle though using QT4, and I believe it's a noop then at least11:13
pittisuperm1: something to put into my release status report then11:13
brycewe can expect most upstream people who comment will make > 1 sentence reply11:13
superm1i'm still tracking and watching for some upstream related changes to mesa and QT3 though11:13
superm1sorry, i probably should have made that clearer somewhere11:14
pittiso if it's wontfix for radeon in mesa, and fixed for other drivers, should the mesa task be closed?11:14
ajmitchbryce: so not based on whitelisting from teams or anything complex?11:14
superm1well upstream mythtv agrees that it's not a QT bug, so it's hard to say whose really right here11:15
superm1a mesa changeset introduced it, and no one has been able to identify what about QT would be causing such bug11:15
bryceajmitch, right.11:15
bryceajmitch, although presumably anyone who joins a team will have more than the tiny required karma already11:16
ajmitchbryce: I'm just thinking of things like sync sponsoring, where the only comment is something like "+1" or "ACK"11:16
* ajmitch had very little karma until recently :)11:16
bryceajmitch, you seem to have 4911 karma, well >> than 50.  :-)11:17
ajmitchyes, it's amazing how a few uploads increased my karma11:17
bryceyeah it's been my experience that anyone who has done >anything< for ubuntu is way, way more worthwhile to listen to than anyone with <50 karma.11:19
pittiRiddell: so you said that bug 339313 is basically fixed in karmic; do you still want to keep it open for remaining corner cases, or should they get new bug reports?11:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 339313 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33931311:21
Riddellpitti: keep it open I think11:22
geserwhy do I need to reset my keyboard layout everytime I login to gnome? I see this behaviour after the gdm update11:22
pittiRiddell: ok; there was no recent update, so I wondered about the status of it (for release team meeting)11:22
pittigeser: you shouldn't need to; does gdm show the correct layout for you?11:23
geserpitti: where should I see it? as I've auto-login activated11:23
pittigeser: (I'm saying that it sounds like a bug)11:24
pittigeser: ah, then you won't see the greeter indeed11:24
pittigeser: I heared other complaints; can you please file a bug and mark it regression-potential and subscribe me?11:24
pittiRiddell: could you please update the bug status to say what's still left?11:25
geserpitti: against gdm?11:25
pittigeser: yes11:25
Laneyhas there been a change in mounting behaviour? I just restarted and am now being asked for a password to mount my windows partition on login11:28
Laneythis partition was never automounted before11:28
pittiLaney: it's a bug11:28
pittion my list11:29
Laneyis it filed?11:29
pittiwe shouldn't automount internal partitions11:29
pittiLaney: not sure whether it's in LP11:29
pittiLaney: but I even think that my gvfs upload from this morning fixed it11:29
Laneyand I see no option to shutdown on fusa either, is that another one?11:29
didrockspitti, ajmitch : I confirm the upgrade mess too (gdm-greeter won't spawn), and rebooting is mandatory11:29
pittididrocks: yes, see gdm changelog; known upgrade issue11:30
pittithere's really no good way to upgrade this online11:30
didrocksand switching to an awful qwerty keyboard :)11:30
pittiUS layout is the only sensible thing for a programmer11:30
ajmitchdidrocks: in my case it appears that there was a stale gdm process hanging around, which a reboot would of course kill11:30
pittididrocks: sounds like geser's bug11:30
ajmitchkilling that let me restart gdm & login11:30
didrockspitti: right, I will confirme his bug11:31
* ajmitch is just looking at open bugs now11:31
didrocksajmitch: I was actually on a virtualbox and ttyx don't spawn, so, I'm unable to check of another X process running :/11:31
Laneyoh, the fusa changes just haven't been done yet11:31
ajmitchah, this was on my main development machine, nothing critical ;)11:31
ajmitchLaney: ubuntu-desktop not installable still?11:32
Laneyajmitch: huh, don't know about that one11:32
geserdoes somebody else witness spontanous gnome logouts? I happened the second time for me today :( I see a black screen and when the picture comes back I get an fresh gnome11:34
KeybukThese windows do not support "save current setup": Login window11:34
ajmitchgeser: yes,  4 times tonight11:34
ajmitchafter that I'd installed a new gdm (2.26)11:34
Keybukand my keyboard reverted back to US Layout *again*11:35
* ajmitch has heard that complaint a few times in here this evening11:37
LaneyI saw the save current setup thing11:39
Laney(directly after login)11:39
geserpitti: bug #39510311:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395103 in gdm "Gnome doesn't have my configured keyboard layout after login anymore" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39510311:40
pittigeser: thanks, I'll put it on the "OMGkarmic!" bug list11:41
pittigeser: can you please attach your xorg.conf for completeness?11:41
geserI know that fusa doesn't work with the new gdm yet but shouldn't I've a (menu) option for shutdown/reboot somewhere? I can only logout11:49
pittigeser: it's back in the system menu for now11:51
gesernot for me: I've only Preferences, Administration, Help and Support, About Gnome there11:52
geserI've a "User Switch Applet" in my panel with "Lock Screen" and "Log Out"11:53
geserbug #43299 seems to be back with the new gdm, should I reopen it or better file a new bug?11:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 43299 in gdm "Can't login with a different user if Automatic login is set" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4329911:54
pittigeser: please reopen it (seb and I talked about it, known issue, but let's track it)11:56
Laneygeser: same for me too (shutdown stuff)11:56
pittihm, seb said that he reverted teh gnome-panel patch, let me check11:57
pittiargh, failed to build11:57
pittiprobably autoconfiscation, will fix now11:58
Laneysuch fun11:58
pittihah, seems seb already committed it to bzr, and then forgot to upload, or something11:59
pittithanks for pointing out11:59
Laneypitti: do you know when you'll be able to look at the MIR for pngquant?12:02
geserpitti: with hal going away who should set the ACL for my smart-card-reader now? where should I move the changes from bug 57755 to?12:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 57755 in hal "Udev Rules for SmartCard Support" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5775512:04
pittigeser: the smartcard stuff was rejected upstream in hal as well :( hang ong12:04
pittigeser: I committed it upstream, and Danny reverted it (http://cgit.freedesktop.org/hal/commit/?id=1579ccee0c25606c39e831b98c129c54ec3894ae), saying that it was handled in the opensc pacakge12:06
pittiso that should ship the udev rules12:06
pittigeser: it's still a nasty hack, though12:07
pitti(raw device access by user space processes)12:08
pittiso this should probably be discussed in http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19663 and reopened12:08
ubottuFreedesktop bug 19663 in hald "define policy keyword for Smart Card readers" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]12:08
pittiwhoops, no, not there, but in opensc12:09
pittiLaney: looking12:09
Laneycool beans12:09
pittiLaney: ah, I remember; promoted12:11
Laneythanks muchly12:11
pittido we need to add that b-dep to tomboy now, or is it already?12:11
gesertomboy is in depwait on pngquant12:11
Laneyit's already depwait on it12:11
geserpitti: are .fdi files still used in a hal-free world?12:15
pittigeser: no, they are hal specific12:16
pittithey were/are being converted to udev rules, or application specific data files12:16
geserso are we back where it started (udev rules)? part of the problem was to find the correct package to ship the udev rules as gnupg, gnupg2 and libccid need that rules but they don't have a common dependency12:19
geserit isn't possible to limit access to specific users just with udev rules without introducing new groups, is it?12:21
pittigeser: you can also chmod them to 66612:22
pittior mark them for automatic ACLs12:22
pitti(similar to hal)12:22
geserautomatic ACLs sounds fine. who sets them?12:23
pittiapplication/hardwrae specific packaes (such as libgphoto2 or libsane) mark the devices12:24
pittie. g. /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libgphoto2-2.rules12:24
pittiand then udev's ACL mechanism sets the ACLs (/lib/udev/rules.d/70-acl.rules)12:24
geserseems interesting12:28
pittigeser: but certainly gnupg, gnupg2, and libccid don't all implement their own smartcard support, but use some kind of library?12:29
geserso it looks like I need a udev rules file which sets ACL_MANAGE for the correct device12:29
pittiif they do implement them, they need to ship separrate rules, since probably they also have differing sets of supported cards?12:30
pittigeser: please don't directly set ACL_MANAGE, set ID_SMARTCARD_READER="1"12:30
geserpitti: both gnupg and gnupg2 have native support to access the SCM smart card reader, they don't need any library for it12:30
pittithen we can commit the ACL management for those to udev directly12:30
pitti(ugh bad design)12:31
pittithen they'd need to ship their own rules, too12:31
geserah, the pieces move slowly together12:33
geserdoes udev-acl need any additional configuration files?12:33
pittibut ideally they wouldn't copy all that SC code, but put it into a proper library12:34
pittigeser: no, it just works12:34
pittigeser: could you quickly hop into #udev?12:34
asacso for gtk git, PKG_CONFIG_PATH isnt enough to build against a newer glib installed at a non-standard place anymore ... one also needs to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH13:58
* asac wonders when that started13:58
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: already done. :)14:00
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
jcastrorickspencer31: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/21/gimp-vs-fspot-in-ubuntu/14:56
rickspencer31dang it, looks like those discovered my true evil intention :/14:57
rickspencer31pitti: ^^^15:00
rickspencer31according to this article, I want to push the gimp off the CD as part of my pro-Microsoft agenda, a diabolical plan to thwart FOSS software by promoting Mono15:02
pittiI _knew_ it!!!111!!15:03
* rickspencer31 invests in tinfoil15:03
pittiwell, I very much like to rescue gimp itself15:04
pittiI'd rather drop the help15:04
rickspencer31I'd like to add cropping and red-eye removal to eog in any case15:05
rickspencer31I don't think there's much value to having gimp in the default install, but not too much harm either15:05
pittiwell, f-spot and me have a long-standing mutual hatred relationship15:05
rickspencer31except that it's not mono based15:05
pittibut it's not at all related to programming languages ;)15:05
rickspencer31f-spot is for photo *management*, it's a totally different scenario than eog or gimp15:05
pittinew tomboy just saved us 1.1 MB \o/15:06
rickspencer31didrocks: perhaps we should change quickly to create a mono project instead?15:06
* rickspencer31 ducks15:06
* didrocks is creating mono-project template ;)15:07
rickspencer31t quickly itself be mono instead of python15:07
* rickspencer31 files bug to remove python from distro15:07
pittirickspencer31: I agree, that's why I wouldn't like to compare f-spot and gimp, or say that one obsoletes the other15:07
didrocksquickly evil-rickspencer31 will remove all non-mono application from your desktop :)15:07
geserrickspencer31: you mean replace python with ironpython?15:07
didrocksrickspencer31: oh, good idea ;)15:07
=== rickspencer31 is now known as evil-rick
* pitti cranks a new daily CD, this one should work much better15:08
=== evil-rick is now known as rickspencer3
rickspencer3didrocks: https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly15:08
rickspencer3I updated the page a little15:08
pittiI unbroke CDs this morning and tested today's, works reasonably15:09
didrocksrickspencer3: nice. This should go to "quickly start" command also15:09
pittiI fixed gnome-panel and casper, so it should do well now15:09
didrocksI will do it tonight15:09
* rickspencer3 pastes didrocks email into wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly15:09
rickspencer3what is "start"?15:09
didrocksrickspencer3: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly when you will have paste it :)15:10
didrocksrickspencer3: "$ quickly start      (NEW one! show some notes about How-to start)"15:11
rickspencer3get-started perhaps?15:11
rickspencer3$quickly get-started15:11
didrocksrickspencer3: better, yes. Let me change it15:11
rickspencer3didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly, btw15:12
didrocksrickspencer3: get-started will not be possible (no dash in python function)15:14
rickspencer3or get_started ?15:15
didrocksI prefer "getstarted"15:15
mdzhello from Gran Canaria15:20
didrocksrickspencer3: new revision pushed and https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly changed slightely15:20
didrockshey mdz15:21
* pitti waves to mdz15:22
james_wdidrocks: bzr has code to rewrite "_" to "-" in command names15:26
james_wwell, it's just a .replace(), but you could do the same :-)15:27
didrocksjames_w: yes, maybe I can do that: get - command name and change them inside the code to call the _ function15:27
didrocksbut I'm not a big fan of those-kind-of-command-name15:27
james_wah, you use an "if" statement, I see that it's not as easy15:29
didrocksjames_w: that's my case in command line args processing. Well, will see later :)15:35
pittikenvandine: hm, libempathy-gtk24 pulls in geoclue15:47
pittiwhich pulls in glib1.2 (!)15:48
pittiI think that's just a wrong build-dep15:48
pittibut still, not sure whether we want/need this right now15:48
pittiRiddell: Kubuntu CDs look pretty good right now size-wise; do you plan to add large new stuff during karmic?16:49
pittiRiddell: or could we use that space for langpacks towards the release?16:49
chrisccoulsonis ubuntu-system-service only for changing default gconf values?17:01
Keybukpitti: weird keyboard bug today17:04
Keybukgdm uses UK17:04
KeybukI log in17:04
Keybukmy session uses USA17:04
KeybukKeyboard -> Layouts says "USA"17:04
Keybukbut then when I click "Reset to Defaults", it goes back to "UK"17:04
Keybukrebooting doesn't save UK, I'm back in USA again17:05
pittiKeybuk: bug 39510317:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395103 in gdm "Gnome doesn't have my configured keyboard layout after login anymore" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39510317:05
pittiunfortunate regression from new gdm17:05
pittiI never noticed, since I'm actually using US; I wonder how it worked for Seb17:05
Keybukeven weirder, it seems to affect the *console* layout too17:05
Keybukif I login to single user mode, it's UK17:07
Keybukonce X has been started, it's USA17:07
pittibut in gdm itself it's okay?17:08
chrisccoulsonsomething loads /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/layouts with "us" when the session loads17:13
chrisccoulsonit should be empty by default, which is why "reset to default" makes it work again17:14
pittihm, not in /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.mandatory/%gconf-tree.xml17:15
chrisccoulsonright, gdm is setting GDM_KEYBOARD_LAYOUT in the environment to "us", and presumably something in the session (g-s-d?) loads it in to gconf17:15
pittiah, indeed17:16
chrisccoulsonso, definately a GDM bug17:16
pittiyou can't even set the keyboard layout in gdm17:17
pittiso as a bandaid we should just stop setting this17:17
chrisccoulsonhmmmm, looking at the GDM source, it gets set to "us" as a fallback if there is no user specified or default layout17:18
pittiI remember again17:18
chrisccoulsonah. we don't want to rely on HAL though do we?17:19
pittiwe do17:20
pittiwe configure it in one place, /etc/default/console-setup17:20
pittifrom there it's spread to hal, then to X.org17:20
pittiIMHO we should just drop the default variable value17:20
ubottubugzilla.redhat.com bug 464825 in gnome-settings-daemon "F10-Beta - live usb - wrong keyboard preference" [Low,Closed: rawhide]17:21
pittithey did something to g-s-d apparently17:21
pittibut not in current fedora, anyway17:22
pittichrisccoulson: linked to upstream bug FYI, I'll look at this now17:47
chrisccoulsondo you think gdm should not set the variable if the user sticks with the default layout?17:47
pittichrisccoulson: yes, I DO17:49
pittioops, shift bug17:50
pittiI followed up in the upstream report17:50
chrisccoulsonpitti - thanks. just looking at your comment, and it is currently possible to set the keyboard layout in the new GDM (there's a selector at the bottom of the screen)17:57
chrisccoulsonbut even if you choose a layout, GDM sets the environment incorrectly17:57
pittichrisccoulson: hm, that only says "language" for me17:57
pittiI don't see a keyboard selector at all17:58
pittijust a locale picker17:58
chrisccoulsonyou're right17:58
chrisccoulsonmy bad ;)17:58
chrisccoulsoni saw "English (United Kingdom)" and immediately thought "keyboard layout"17:58
* crevette just did the gdm upgrade17:59
pitticrevette: yes, your keyboard is broken17:59
crevettepitti, not yet :)18:00
pittioh, it should!18:00
crevetteI didn't restarted gdm18:00
chrisccoulsonit will be when you log out and back in again18:00
chrisccoulsonpresumably there is some way to have a layout switcher in GDM then?18:01
crevetteI think this is expected I kicked out my session just right after the upgrade18:01
pitticrevette: no, not out of your session18:01
pittiit just gets locked18:02
chrisccoulsondid you get kicked out or did a greeter load?18:02
pittiyou can return to it18:02
chrisccoulsonyeah, thats what happened to me18:02
crevettepitti, ah yeah the session was locked18:02
chrisccoulsonthat doesn't seem correct behaviour though does it?18:02
pittiit's not, of course18:02
pittibut allegedly hard to do otherwise18:02
* pitti test-builds fixed gdm18:04
crevettepitti, you cooked a patch?18:04
pittiI'd like to get this fixed before the weekend18:05
pittiI hope it'll work, my wife will return home in about 30 mins :)18:05
crevettean entry in the menu system->administration for GDM is still showed, but no icon and nothing appears (I know there is no setup GUI for 2.26)18:06
chrisccoulsoncrevette - do you have a custom launcher in ~/.local/share/applications?18:06
pittihm, I don't have a gdm admin .desktop any more18:06
crevettechrisccoulson, no, that why it is odd18:07
chrisccoulsonhmmm, strange18:07
crevetteperhpas I should log out18:07
crevettebut preferably the menu should be updated18:07
chrisccoulsonyeah, sometimes the panel doesnt update18:07
crevettehlmm strange, gdm show me the user kerneloops18:09
crevettekernoops rather18:09
chrisccoulsonabout the launcher still showing in the menu, is suspect that is because the new gdm postinst does not do a call to update-desktop-database18:10
crevettechrisccoulson, yep I think the same18:10
chrisccoulsonhmmm, there's no way to start a failsafe session from the new gdm18:12
crevetteshould I opena bug?18:12
chrisccoulsoncrevette - you could do18:12
pitti\o/ it works18:19
chrisccoulsonnice one :)18:20
* crevette login out quickly before just to experience the bug :)18:29
chrisccoulsonyay! crevette now has us layout ;)18:33
crevetteHeah I have the bug18:33
chrisccoulsonyou should keep that layout now and type any remaining conversations pressing the keys you would normally press;)18:33
crevettehopefully I use US keyboard sometimes at work18:33
crevetteso I can type US on FR  if I don4t look to ;y keyboard ;apping18:34
pittihave a nice weekend everyone18:36
* pitti waves18:36
crevettethx pitti for the fix18:36
pittiyou're welcome  :)18:36
chrisccoulsonhave a good weekend too pitti:)18:36
pittiwe broke it, we fix it18:36
crevetteI have another bug to sub;it for gd;18:36
* pitti chuckles18:36
crevetteand you run away18:36
pittiyou'll so FAIL to type your password!18:36
* crevette can't do a smiley18:38
chrisccoulsoni can ^^18:38
geserhere is one: :)18:38
chrisccoulsonhaha. that works on IRC too18:38
crevettebroken gdm is good to learn US keybaord mapping18:39
* crevette wants to change the theme used for gdm18:40
crevettebut anyway new gdm welcome screen is nice18:40
chrisccoulsoncrevette - thats a bit of a pain. it gets it from the gconf defaults at the moment18:40
chrisccoulsonyou can adjust the defaults18:41
crevettechrisccoulson, even the theme?18:41
chrisccoulsonyeah. you just need to figure out the default gconf keys to set ;)18:41
crevetteno more conf file in /etc/18:41
chrisccoulsoni don't know if everything is configured in gconf now, but the theme definately is18:41
chrisccoulsonit just uses standard gtk and metacity themes18:42
chrisccoulsonyou just need to figure out the correct keys to set ;)18:42
chrisccoulsonyou can also set the keys explicitly for the gdm user by using "sudo -u gdm gconftool-2 -s --type=<type> <key> <val>"18:42
crevetteyeah I know gconf a little :)18:43
crevetterah, no direct access to default configuration in gconf-editor18:43
chrisccoulsonthere should be :-/18:44
chrisccoulsonanyway, i have to go and buy some food to cook for dinner this evening18:44
crevetteI guess it "only" lack policykit stuff18:44
* crevette is totally ignorant18:44
crevetteso kernoops is listed a potential user in gdm greeter18:46
crevettes/a /as /18:46
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
james_wcrevette: oops, would you file a bug on the kerneloops package to check that the user creation stuff is correct?19:16
crevettejames_w, yes, sure, I wanted to investigate if it was gdm's fault or not :)19:46
crevettebut I failed :/19:47
crevettelet's open a bug and we'll see19:48
maxbcrevette: What's the uid of your kernoops user?19:49
crevettekernoops:x:112:65534:Kernel Oops Tracking Daemon,,,:/:/bin/false19:49
maxbhm. Seems to me that gdm shouldn't display uids in the system range19:49
crevettewhat is the range for real users?19:51
crevettejames_w, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/39528119:54
ubottuUbuntu bug 395281 in kerneloops "kernoops user is listed as real user in gdm 2.26.x" [Undecided,New]19:54
james_wthanks crevette19:55
crevetteyou're welcome19:55
crevettepleased to help19:55
crevetteah seb128 uploaded gnome-shell19:57
crevettehe does some work before getting too drunk19:58
crevettehmm the patch pitti didn't worked for me ...20:13
crevettestill is en_US20:13
* crevette will kill himself gdm to be sure20:15
james_wI can't see anything odd that kerneloops is doing20:19
crevettestill broken layout for me :/20:20
chrisccoulsonjames_w - someone else mentioned on here a couple of days ago about GDM showing a system user20:21
chrisccoulsoncant remember who though20:21
crevettechrisccoulson, with 2.26?20:21
chrisccoulsoncrevette - is GDM_KEYBOARD_LAYOUT still set to "us" in your environment?20:21
chrisccoulsoncrevette - yes, with 2.2620:21
crevetteI didn't use face browser on previous version, but perhaps the bug was already there20:22
chrisccoulsoni don't think so. i use face browser on old GDM, and ive never seen that20:22
chrisccoulsoncrevette left us again20:22
chrisccoulsoncrevette: (20:22:24) chrisccoulson: i don't think so. i use face browser on old GDM, and ive never seen that20:22
chrisccoulsonjust before you left;)20:22
crevettehey I was kicked out my session20:23
chrisccoulson";y" session?20:24
crevetteYOU LIE I PRESS M20:24
chrisccoulsonheh. it displays ";" here;)20:24
crevetteenv|grep GDM20:25
crevetteis it what you wanted?20:26
crevetteI did'nt had time to read20:26
chrisccoulsonit doesn't look like it's being set then20:26
* crevette will check gnome keyboard setting 20:26
crevettethe layout is USAm zhy20:27
chrisccoulsonyou'll need to restore the default settings if you havent already20:27
crevettejoy !!!!20:27
crevetteI can type french20:27
chrisccoulsoni wonder what happens if i set my keyboard layout to french?>20:27
crevetteand now I'm used to press US and I do typo in the other way around20:28
crevettebut the session crashing is ... weird tbh20:28
chrisccoulsonthqt is zhqt hqppens if i set ,y keyboqrd to french20:29
crevetteahah, time for you to suffer20:29
chrisccoulson"that is what happens if i set my keyboard to french"20:29
crevettethe fusa applet takes a lot of space20:30
* crevette is in critizing mood20:30
maxbcrevette: me too - I want the small icon style of display back20:33
maxbListing the entire user friendly name is a huge waste of panel space20:33
maxbespecially on a netbook screen20:33
=== asac_ is now known as asac
maxbSo, the new gdm... surely it isn't supposed to switch you out of your current X session when you install it?20:50
maxbAlso, somewhat amusingly, on one of my machines it doesn't list any users to select from at all!20:50
james_wI think I know what it is20:58
james_wgdm uses ck-history to query user activity20:59
james_wwhich presumably at some point includes kernoops20:59
james_wbecause that logs in and libpam-ck gives it a ck session21:00
james_wcrevette: when did you install kerneloops?21:00
walterswha?  kernoops has a login session?21:00
crevettejames_w, uhh, few months ago21:01
crevettejames_w, I was looking in ck me too, but didn't manage to find the way gdm uses21:01
crevette.. to determine the list of system users21:01
james_wwalters: I'm guessing that start-stop-daemon opens a session via pam21:02
james_wit's a bit of a pain for us with things like cron21:02
james_wnot sure we've ever fixed that one21:02
walterswell...there shouldn't be CK sessions for system uids imo21:03
crevettejames_w, so you think gdm uses something like ck-history --frequent?21:03
james_wGDM just uses a hard-coded list of exclusions?!21:03
waltersthe historical inability of unix to have a useful distinction between real humans and random bits of the OS kind of sucks21:03
james_wcrevette: exactly that21:04
james_w command = g_strdup_printf ("ck-history --frequent --seat='%s' --session-type=''",21:04
james_w                                   seat_id);21:04
crevetteah ck doesn't expose dbus API?21:04
james_wwalters: do you think root should get a session?21:04
james_wif the user logs in as root on the console then they presumably want one21:05
crevettejames_w, nice shot21:05
james_wcrevette: it does, but not for that21:05
waltersjames_w: if a human logs in with root's credentials, yes; otherwise no21:05
james_wnot sure how easy it is to determine that at the PAM level, do you know?21:05
crevetteck-history reports 14947 login for root !?21:05
waltersjames_w: honestly i'd just do ck sessions for ssh and gdm, and ignore everything else for now...cron is kind of a ball of hair though.  i guess it's a discussion for the CK list21:06
james_wthere's a ck list now?21:07
james_wit used to just say to use the HAL list21:07
waltersoh, i don't know21:07
james_wand yeah, GDM seems to purely use a hardcoded exclude list21:08
james_wit should append to that as it parses passwd I think21:08
waltersmaybe we should use xdg-list to discuss useful stuff21:08
crevettewalters, you're not at GUADEC?21:09
walterscrevette: not this year =/21:09
james_wmaxb: could you file a new bug for the case where the user is not shown?21:12
james_wmaxb: also, what is the username of that user?21:13
james_walso, parsing /etc/passwd directly: not going to make some people happy21:33
crevettejames_w, ther is nothing fix directly in ck-history?21:34
crevettejames_w, there is nothing to fix directly in ck-history?21:34
james_wwe need to tweak ck to avoid some users getting sessions in some circumstances21:35
james_wbut I think that GDM should also make some changes21:35
maxbjames_w: Update on that - users do appear in the list after 5 seconds or so21:51
maxbAlso, ck-history was consuming 200% cpu for a while after login!?21:51
* maxb updates bug21:55
RainCTHey. Anyone bored wants to try out Zeitgeist (the engine) before I release 0.1?22:13
kwahhi all22:41
kwahmay be it is not the right place to ask22:41
SiDiwe won't know if you won't ask22:41
kwahbut with whom may I discuss a proposed blueprint like https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/add-on-cd-composer22:41
kwahSiDi, you are fast typer :D22:42
SiDiWell, i was reading other channels22:42
SiDibut i actually type fast22:43
kwahis there a special channel to discuss blueprints?22:43
SiDidepends on what it is about22:43
SiDiif its about servers, then #ubuntu-server, and so on22:43
kwahI tried to ask at ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list, but got no feedback :(22:43
SiDiI don't *understand* this blueprint so i can't help22:43
SiDiit looks like an OEM thingy, right ?22:44
kwahnope... it is actually about distribution and first appearence of desktop22:44
kwahtherefore I came here ;)22:44
SiDiWhat is this spec for ?22:44
SiDiHaving a tool for creating a custom Ubuntu-based CD ?22:45
kwahfor special purpose22:45
SiDithen the spec should write use cases where the current tools lack features, and list these features with solution proposals22:45
kwahget an official add-on disk extending appearance/functionality limited by CD size22:46
SiDithen i'm pretty sure it'll interest the people working on OEM (like cody-somerville)22:46
kwahso I did something wrong here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAddOnCDComposer ?22:46
* SiDi didnt notice the wiki page22:47
kwahheh, the link is in the blueprint ;)22:47
SiDiget in touch with cody i guess :)22:48
* kwah noted possible contact22:50
kwahSiDi, thanks22:50

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