billybigriggerhow do i find out when vbox 3.0 will be hitting repos?00:37
billybigriggeris there anyway to track the status of it on launchpad or anything? or is it whenever an motu uploads it?00:38
ograScottK, directhex, mono uploaded, the testbuild is still runing, but got far enough beyond the failure point that i'm confident it will get through00:39
billybigriggercan someone help me out debugging a problem with my webcam and the new kernel?02:36
billybigriggerit worked fine yesterday, now after upgrading to 2.6.31 today it doesn't work02:36
billybigriggerJul  2 19:31:39 cabo kernel: [11502.374422] gspca: usb_submit_urb [0] err -2802:36
billybigriggerJul  2 19:31:39 cabo kernel: [11502.398542] ohci_hcd 0000:00:02.0: leak ed ffff88003781f2d0 (#81) state 202:36
billybigriggeri get that from syslog when running cheese, the webcam light goes on...but just purple garbled screen02:37
billybigriggeri looked up gspca on launchpad and see that gspca-source02:38
billybigriggerDeleted in karmic-release  (Reason: (From Debian) ROM; mainlined in Linux >= 2.6.28)02:38
billybigriggerso do i file a bug against the new kernel? or where do i go from here?02:38
=== dmb_ is now known as dmb
TheMusobillybigrigger: Filing a bug against the linux package for version 2.6.31 would likely be a start, yes, giving the dmesg stuff you quoted above.02:42
billybigriggerno dmesg, just syslog02:42
billybigriggergonna start digging around in dmesg i guess02:42
billybigriggershould i just attach my whole dmes and syslog?02:42
TheMusoIt would probably be better to attach the bits that seem relevant.02:44
TheMusowoohoo. LVM snapshots are broken with kernel
TheMuso...or I wonder if the format for LVM stuff has changed, which causes the breakage...05:15
liwTheMuso, yo!05:24
TheMusoHi liw.05:25
liwTheMuso, I failed to get my disks setup in a raid -- the bios raid configurator does not see the disks (they do work), whether I follow the manual's instructions or cycle through all combinations of all relevant settings -- any suggestions?05:26
TheMusoThe BIOS doesn't see them. Are they connected to the right ports on the motherboard?05:27
liwthey bios sees them05:27
liwI can install ubuntu on them and the installed ubuntu boots, for example05:27
liwthe bios lists them in the post, etc05:27
TheMusoAh but you can't configure them as RAID?05:29
RAOFIs there any particular reason to be using the bios raid configurator?05:29
liwTheMuso, yes, exactly05:29
TheMusoRAOF: He has been given the unfortunate task of maintaining dmraid.05:29
liwRAOF, yes05:29
RAOFTheMuso: You've managed to palm that off?  Sweet!05:29
TheMusoliw: I think the jmicron controller operates in a few different modes. Either IDE, AHCI, or rAID, depending on the BIOS/motherboard manufacturer, and the available ports on the board.05:30
TheMusoRAOF: I didn't manage to do anything. Since changing teams, it was reassigned to someone else.05:30
liwTheMuso, yeah, that's one of the settings I've cycled through05:30
RAOFSo, I guess "why not just use md softraid" isn't an approprate response, then :)05:30
TheMusoI know the jmicron controller on my gigabyte board does that.05:30
TheMusoliw: You want it in RAID mode.05:30
liwTheMuso, I've tried it in each mode, to no effect, alas05:31
TheMusoRAOF: Try telling all those users out there who want to sit WIndows and Linux on a bad RAID setup. :p05:31
TheMusoliw: When in RAID mode, you have to press a key combination during boot to get into the RAID configuration utility.05:31
TheMusoThats what I have to do with mine.05:31
liwTheMuso, yup, control-j. no effect :)05:31
TheMusoliw: What is the motherboard?05:32
TheMusoi.e manufacturer etc.05:32
liwAsus P5K05:32
TheMusoOne thing I found with mine is that for some reason, when the system boots, capslock is toggled on internally, although this is not shown, well not at least on my wireless keyboard. Prior to the key command neetding to be entered, try pressing capslock twice, then pressing control + J at the appropriate time.05:33
TheMusoMine is a gigabyte board, which I think I've already said.05:33
liwthat's... an interesting behavior05:33
liwI'll try that05:34
TheMusoYes, it is.05:34
TheMusoThats what I had to do with mine.05:34
liwunfortunately, doesn't help05:34
liw(I have a wired keyboard, though)05:34
TheMusoyou could try control + shift + j05:34
TheMusobut other than that, I am out of ideas.05:35
TheMusoDoes the board also have an intel controller?05:35
liwI thought that was it05:35
TheMusoIf so, I would suggest using it instead, as it also supports RAID, and is somewhat better supported by dmraid./05:35
liwjust went through everyting in the bios. the jmicron one seems to be the only one.05:38
TheMusoHrm ok.05:39
* TheMuso googles the mb to see what it has.05:39
TheMusoliw: According to what I've found, it uses an Intel P35/ICH9 chipset, which means there is an intel controller. Let me reboot, and see what its called in my BIOS.05:41
TheMusolionel: The section you want to go into if you have it is "integrated peripherals", and the option you want is SATA/RAID AHCI controller mode, or something similar.05:50
TheMusosorry, liw ^^05:50
TheMusolionel: sorry, wrong person, tab completion caught me out. :p05:50
liwTheMuso, I have "Onboard devices configuration" with "J-Micron eSATA/PATA controller" (changing it has no effect), and "SATA configuration" with "Configure SATA as" and the only option ever there is "IDE", no "RAID"05:54
TheMusohrm ok, no idea then.05:54
liwTheMuso, I now realize that the J-Micron setting only says eSATA, so might apply only to external SATA drives anyway05:54
TheMusohrm thats possible.05:55
liwand PATA drives, of which I have none anymore05:55
TheMusoI guess you could go into Linux, and try and find out what controller your drives are connected to, but I think that means digging through sysfs.05:55
liwi'll do that05:56
TheMusoIn other news, a fresh install of the latest karmic daily from the alternate disk on my notebook leaves me with no sudo access. :)05:57
liwlshw shows the disks as being connected to the 82801IB (ICH9) 2 PORT SATA IDE Controller06:06
liwand there's nothing connected to the jmicron one, hmm06:07
TheMusoRight, I thought as much.06:07
TheMusoSO there is probably an option in your BIOS to turn it into a RAID controller, but i can't help you as to what you are looking for.06:08
liwif there is, it isn't in the bios menus...06:08
TheMusoSo the "configure SATA as" option didn't have other choices other than IDE? TO find out, you should be able to press enter to get a list of options.06:09
liwthat only shows IDE as the only option06:09
liwaha, I found a SATA port on the motherboard for the jmicron contoller06:11
liwa single port06:11
liwwhich is rather less useful for raid than I would hope06:12
liw"Tho configure a RAID 0, RAID 1, or JBOD set, install an external Serial ATA hard disk drive and an internal Serial ATA hard disk drive connected to the onboard Serial ATA connector labeled SATA_E2."06:14
liwthat's... an interesting design decision06:14
TheMusoliw: SOunds like you got one of the basic boards then.06:17
liwyeah, it's very basic06:17
TheMusoAnd it sounds like the BIOS is not letting you run the intel controller in either AHCI or RAID mode, or at least so far as you have found.06:17
lifelessliw: fakeraid time :)06:17
lifelessliw: welcoe to my world06:17
TheMusoliw: Yes, he has been given the task of maintaining dmraid, now that I've switched teams.06:18
lifelessTheMuso: WOO06:18
lifelessliw: hehehehe06:18
liwthe manual claims the "Configure SATA as" setting has options "IDE" and "ACHI", but I only ever see "IDE"06:21
liwno "RAID" documented, though06:21
lifelessliw: are you looking at the ISM setup ?06:21
lifelessliw: sorry, IMSM06:21
liwwhat is that?06:21
lifelessthe firmware06:21
lifelesswhich is onboard, not loadable06:22
lifelessthe intel raid implemenetation is 'Intel Matrix Storage Manager'06:22
liwand where would I find that?06:22
lifelessit has three modes for the sata ports that are run by intel. The jmicron ones are a different controller.06:22
lifelessIDE - runs a vanilla IDE command set06:22
lifelessACHI - reports a different device ID, and runs with more scsi like capabilities06:23
lifelessand RAID, which is ACHI + the ability to read raid sets from disk during boot - but as soon as the OS starts running controllers directly that gets sidelined06:23
lifelessliw: typically in the BIOS setup06:24
lifelessliw: there may be multiple options labelled and looking the same.06:24
liwlifeless, well, gee, the discussion so far, since yesterday, has been concentrated on the fact that the BIOS does not have that06:24
lifelessliw: yes, I get that.06:24
lifelessliw: another possibility is that your Motherboard has had the option disabled by the vendor06:25
lifelessliw: is SATA_E2 the jmicron port?06:25
lifelessthen my bet is that you don't have an IMSM module in that machine build06:26
lifelessand instead only have the jmicron fakeRAID facility06:26
lifelesswhich I haven't worked with :)06:26
liwthat's the way it's looking, yes06:26
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
liwoh well, I'll write this up and email robbie06:27
lifelesswhat motherboard is it ?06:28
lifelessthe jmicron is a good one to be able to test too06:28
lifelessits just probably not the most common one06:28
liwAsus P5K06:29
liwthe jmicron controller is utterly useless for this, since it only has one SATA port (plus an eSATA port)06:29
lifelesswell, it will work06:30
lifelessjust have to have an external chassis too:P06:30
lifelesswhich p5K specifically? deluxe? premium?06:31
liwbuying more boxes not an option for me, though; I have way too much computer stuff already, and I'm getting ready to move...06:31
liwplain P5K afaik06:32
lifelessits missing the magical R06:32
lifelessyou need the ICH9R chipset06:32
lifelessnot ICH906:32
liwthanks, that's useful information: now I at least know that I don't ahve the right chipset from Intel and don't need to look at that further06:34
lifelessI was aiming for helpful :)06:34
liwyou often are :)06:34
lifelessand checking my facts - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I/O_Controller_Hub06:35
lifelessI'm correct06:35
lifelessnone of the p5k's listed ICH9D*06:35
lifelessoly ICH9/ICH9R06:36
lifelessso ifyou have a plain p5K, its ICH9 and can't do intel matrix storage manager raid06:36
TheMusoWhich IMO is the better of the 2 controllers.06:40
TheMusoI have not had the best time with jmicron controllers.06:40
TheMusoBut it does work well enough.06:40
* TheMuso has a gigabyte board with the same 2 controllers, with intel and jmicron both able to do RAID. I use the jmicron controller for my DVD drive, and intel for disks. :)06:41
dholbachgood morning07:14
pittiGood morning07:14
dholbachhi pitti07:15
pittiTheMuso: my mixer level always start with 0 and muted after a clean boot; is that just me?07:18
Sarvattnot just you07:20
Sarvattsame thing here07:20
Sarvattits just pcm and beep in alsamixer getting reset to 0 every boot, master stays where it is07:31
TheMusopitti: is this 0.9.16?08:02
pittiTheMuso: yes, but it also happened with 0.9.1508:10
pittiTheMuso: http://pastebin.com/f41bc141308:10
pittiTheMuso: I think its an alsa problem, not a pulse problem (ICBW, no idea how pulse fiddles with mixers nowadays)08:11
pitti-rw------- 1 martin martin 780252 2009-07-03 09:10 gvfs_1.3.1-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb08:11
* pitti appreciates bzr-buildpackage to keep my s3kr1t code really secret, but that's a little over-ambitious :)08:12
pittijames_w: ^08:12
pittijames_w: (in ../build-tree/ they are okay, but the copies in ../ are 0600 now)08:13
pittijames_w: I'll file a bug later, just for amusement08:13
TheMusopitti: you could try removing /var/lib/alsa/asound.state, however you ahve to unload all modules for sound before doing so, so that a new file is created with fresh settings. I did a fresh install on my notebook today and am not having that problem, whereas I was with the previous karmic install I had on there.08:16
pittiTheMuso: I'll check out today's live CD08:16
pittiTheMuso: thanks; if it's just local bad state, it's fine08:17
StevenKpitti: Which failed to build, since seb128 broke it with gdm08:19
pittioh, will look into it08:19
StevenKgdm: Conflicts: fast-user-switch-applet but 2.24.0-3ubuntu1 is to be installed08:20
StevenKpitti: ^08:20
pittiah, need to unseed08:22
StevenKpitti: Should I do the same for UNR?08:23
StevenKpitti: And would you mind sharing your thoughts on bug 395030, when you have a sec?08:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395030 in gnome-do "gnome-do can no longer restart machine" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39503008:24
TheMusopitti: If the touchpad on my notebook is not working, where should I start debugging that? I08:27
TheMusopitti: It will be Monday, but a pointer would be good.08:27
pittiStevenK: seeds updated; if you use gdm in unr, you need to do the same (merge?)08:28
pittiTheMuso: your sentence was cut off08:28
pittiTheMuso: I'm not familiar with the synaptics driver, I'm afraid; ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is all I can give you :/08:28
Sarvatt2.6.31 got really touchy about touchpads huh? i need to add i8042.reset=1 ever since around 2.6.30-git13 on this aspire one08:29
pittiTheMuso: do you see it in sudo lsinput at least?08:29
pittior isn't it even detected?08:29
chrisccoulsonStevenK - i wrote a patch to gnome-session to expose restart and shutdown methods over DBus08:29
chrisccoulsonyou could use that :)08:29
pittiTheMuso: if it is in lsinput, please check lshal whether it has input.x11_driver = 'evdev'08:30
chrisccoulsonStevenK - gnome-power-manager has nothing to do with shutdown or restarting now in Karmic08:30
pittiStevenK: 395030> looks like it needs to call ConsoleKit instead?08:31
hyperairchrisccoulson: then what does?08:31
hyperairoh whoops08:31
chrisccoulsonpitti / StevenK - the issue with ConsoleKit is that the session is terminated without being torn down properly08:31
pittiah, so it does want to do that08:32
pittiif you use gnome-session08:32
chrisccoulsonthose are the ones:)08:32
chrisccoulsonbut the Request*() methods are Ubuntu patches though08:33
pittiuh? how does that work upstream then?08:33
chrisccoulsonwithout those, I don't know of any other proper way now for an application to shut down the machine and terminate the session correctly08:33
chrisccoulsonpitti - i don't know about upstream. i forwarded my gnome-session patch upstream, but I've had no comments so far08:34
pittithen I don't know either, I'm afraid :/08:34
pittignome-power-cmd reboot perhaps?08:35
chrisccoulsonhmmm, i wonder what that does08:35
pitti(don't want to try right now, have editors open, etc.)08:35
chrisccoulsonpitti - is the plan to migrate everything to polkit-1 this cycle?08:37
pittichrisccoulson: as much as possible, anyway08:37
pittihttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne looks pretty good already08:37
chrisccoulsonthanks. yeah, i was just taking a look at that08:38
chrisccoulsonit seems polkit-1 really breaks shutdown/restart08:38
tseliotsoren: I've just noticed that your requested that you branch was merged into lp:broadcom-sta instead of lp:~broadcom-sta-hackers/broadcom-sta/ubuntu . Can you merge it into lp:~broadcom-sta-hackers/broadcom-sta/ubuntu , please?08:46
pittihm, does bluetooth obexftp browsing work for anyone else in karmic? I can pair, but then it just says "service not supported by remote device"08:51
pittiah, the G1 doesn't like obexftp, works fine with my old one08:56
visehi yall09:15
dunhamHi all! I'm packaging a software that has a COPYING (GPL2) and copyright information, but some source files miss license headers. some of them only report the author name, others haven't copyright/license info at all. Is such a package acceptable in the archives? Should I ask upstream to fix it?09:17
liwdunham, a) there's probably thousands of such packages in the archive already b) it's always good to politely ask upstream to fix that, since ambiguity in licensing does nobody good any good09:18
dunhamliw: a) ok. So, in case upstream is not that responsive, can I suppose archive-admins would accept it? b) indeed! hopefully he will address my points and make everything easier09:20
liwdunham, I would expect the archive admins to accept it, yes09:20
dunhamliw: ok, good. Thank you!09:21
viseIm compiling a set of files (around 30) and then linking them together using my own makefile. In order to speed up, I use -j2. But while it reaches the link stage, there are unfinished compilations which result in the linker not finding 1 or more object files. Is there some way I could tell make to do the linking after all the concurrent compilation jobs are over?09:23
liwvise, do you have the target of the link depend on all the object files?09:24
liwif so, make should do the right thing09:24
viseOkay! I have no dependencies for the link step.. Adding all the object files as dependencies there should do the job... Il try... tyvm09:26
viseworks... ty @liw09:27
liwyou're welcome09:28
dholbachkirkland: why do I have Private/THIS DIRECTORY HAS BEEN UNMOUNTED TO PROTECT YOUR DATA -- ...?09:30
cjwatsonTheMuso: don't suppose you have an installation log from that system that was left without sudo access?09:33
cjwatsondholbach: run ecryptfs-mount-private?09:33
cjwatsonI think that file has some useful contents, even09:34
dholbachcjwatson: I was just surprised - I never had that file before09:34
cjwatsonI don't know why ecryptfs unmounted it, just explaining how to get things back :)09:34
dholbachright :)09:34
pittiit's even supposed to be clickable in nautilus, isn't it?09:37
dholbachJul  3 10:38:31 bert kernel: [   33.496877] Unable to allocate crypto cipher with name [aes]; rc = [-2]09:39
dholbachJul  3 10:38:31 bert kernel: [   33.496882] Error attempting to initialize key TFM cipher with name = [aes]; rc = [-2]09:39
dholbachJul  3 10:38:31 bert kernel: [   33.496885] Error attempting to initialize cipher with name = [aes] and key size = [16]; rc = [-2]09:39
dholbachJul  3 10:38:31 bert kernel: [   33.496888] Error parsing options; rc = [-22]09:39
dholbachI have no idea what's going on here09:39
dholbachpitti, cjwatson, kirkland: nevermind, it was entirely my fault and is too embarassing to tell :)09:49
pittidholbach: it was your dog, right?09:55
dholbachno, Murphy's far too clever :)09:56
dholbach... to have an overeager clean up command running that deletes /lib/modules09:56
dholbachanyway, it's fixed :)09:56
pittikees always does that for security09:57
dholbachand good to see that Ubuntu runs stable enough without it09:57
* dholbach hugs y'all09:57
pittithanks to the kernel team for building in the most important stuff :)09:57
dholbachthat's fantastic, really09:57
pittii915                  208744  309:57
pittidrm                   192800  3 i91509:57
pittithose are really the only two you can't really do without09:57
pittiwell, there's still wifi/sound, but if you are on eth, you indeed might not even notice09:58
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Keybukpitti: having all that in the initramfs is temporary10:03
pittiKeybuk: ok, so the fbcon issue is a bug then?10:03
Keybukwhat's the issue?10:03
pittiKeybuk: try booting without an initramfs10:07
pittias soon as udevadm trigger kicks in, and thus KMS gets active, screen goes black10:07
Keybukthough I suspect that's the most minor thing that goes wrong if you boot without an initramfs ;)10:07
pittiJesse suspects that it's due to fbcon not being loaded10:07
pittiKeybuk: why? works fine10:07
Keybukby stripping back the initramfs to only mounting the root filesystem and nothing else, we'll solve most of those in one fell swoop10:07
Keybukpitti: there's a whole bunch of modprobes in the initramfs that aren't duplicated outside10:08
Keybukfbcon is just one of them10:08
pittiKeybuk: so it seems we need to duplicate that fbcon modprobe after the udevadm trigger, to make VTs work if KMS doesnt' get flipped on in the initramfs?10:09
Keybukno, we need to take the kms drivers back out of the initramfs10:10
pittitogether with fbcon then?10:11
pittiI know that this worked a few weeks back, but something in the last few weeks has broken it10:11
cjwatsonKeybuk: (optionally; they'll need to stay in in some cases)10:22
* ogra wonders what mvo broke on strace to make it ftbfs on arm :P10:25
ograhmmm linux/arm/syscallent.h contains funny code thats aparently supposed to make builds fail ...10:27
ogra#if SYS_socket_subcall != 40010:27
ogra #error fix me10:27
ograthats just mean10:27
pittiwell, it doesn't say #error MUHAHAYOUSUCK10:27
pittiit looks intentional?10:28
ograyes, apparently10:28
ograbut that means it will never build10:29
* ogra tries to find out why it was added10:29
Keybukcjwatson: the "need a password for the root filesystem" case only, surely?10:29
ograaha !10:34
cjwatsonKeybuk: yes10:34
Keybukcjwatson: which has the nice property of not booting without an initramfs anyway, thus pitti's bug isn't relevant to that particular case <g>10:35
cjwatsonquite :)10:36
pittiKeybuk: well, my bug is not really about "boot without initramfs", it's about when KMS gets flipped on10:36
pittiapparently "kms after fbcon" is the problem10:36
Keybukyeah, not 100% sure how to handle fbcon yet10:37
Keybukhaven't done the necessary testing10:37
KeybukI guess it's needed, otherwise you won't have a console10:37
pittibut booting without initramfs is a nice and easy way to test it temporarily10:37
Keybukso we'd need to load it at some point10:37
Keybukand then, as you say, does it need to be loaded before or after the kms module?10:37
pittiKeybuk: ah, it has no modaliases indeed10:37
Keybukeasiest way is probably going to be to just add "depend i915 fbcon" to module aliases somewhere10:38
pittiwould it work to add it to /etc/modules?10:38
pittiis that run after udevadm trigger?10:38
Keybuk/etc/modules is before right now10:38
pittioh, ok10:38
Keybukand I tend to dislike adding hardcoded things there10:38
TheMusocjwatson: I do, I'll file a bug and throw them in there.10:39
gesercould someone please unsubscribe u-m-s from bug #386428. subscribed the wrong team10:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 386428 in xom "Please merge xom_1.2.1-1 (universe) from debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38642810:42
pittigeser: done10:42
TheMusocjwatson: what package is responsible for setting user groups? I'll file it against that with a tarball of the install logs.10:44
cjwatsonTheMuso: user-setup10:45
TheMusook thanks10:45
cjwatsonTheMuso: if you could just attach syslog, please, not as a tarball10:45
cjwatson/var/log/installer/syslog - I'm unlikely to need anything else10:45
TheMusooh ok10:45
cjwatson(tarball => extra faff)10:46
LaneyI just full-upgraded and now have a GDM greeter displaying which I cannot interact with in any way :(10:55
Laneydidn't even restart...10:55
TheMusocjwatson: bug 395082 filed10:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395082 in user-setup "No sudo access after installing of Ubuntu amd64 from July 2 daily." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39508210:55
Laneyhad to SSH in and kill it10:56
pittimeh "branch linked" spam10:57
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
KeybukI've said this before, but one thing I love about Upstart is that in single user mode, I can run "start tty2" ;-)11:57
ograpfft, excessive use of terminals11:58
=== dyfet_ is now known as dyfet
=== korn_ is now known as c_korn
Xhemacan someone please fill me in on one thing?  is there any requirement for people to publish changes to open office? is the PO files? is there any requirement for them to publish the sources?13:59
pbnXhema: hi, better ask on #openoffice.org14:10
ograasac, my cursor keys and pgup/pgdn dont work on LP pages in shiretoko, is that LPs fault or shiretoko ?14:13
ograhmm, the do work but only after some time14:14
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
asacogra: i dont think its a 3.5+ dependent14:23
asacseems to be lower down the stack14:24
ograhmm, k14:24
asaci will use 3.0 for a while today to see if it happens there too14:24
ograbut ou notice the same ?14:28
james_wdoes anyone have a bug number for the "unable to mount external media in karmic bug"?14:32
james_wI thought I remembered someone saying it was a known bug the other day14:33
james_wpeople keep filing it against dbus because you get a DBus timeout error14:33
pittijames_w: "the" bug? works fine here14:37
pittithey might not have upgraded and don't have policykit-1-gnome yet?14:37
LaneyI was seeing it with my iPod the other day, but I cleverly managed to lose it... :(14:37
james_wpitti: thanks, I'll ask14:37
Laneyphone mounts fine though14:37
ograworks here as well14:37
james_we.g. bug 39330614:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 393306 in dbus "Unable to mount location" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39330614:37
ogra"to well" actually :)14:37
Laneyis it .31? I heard that there may be problems there14:38
=== davidm__ is now known as davidm
=== davidm is now known as Guest70068
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
=== Guest70068 is now known as debran
=== debran is now known as debran_
amitkliw: should binutils-static be in computer-janitor?15:33
PPDP12Hi, how do I get started developing with Ubuntu15:36
PPDP12Maybe like tutorials and stuff?15:36
PPDP12I have Experience with Microsoft Programming15:37
ionThe topic would be a good start15:37
=== Xhema is now known as KaubojXhema
ogra /topic15:38
PPDP12O ok15:38
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ograuuuh, where does my fusa applet go with this upgrade ?16:07
iongdm provides it now.16:09
ograi just saw it being deleted16:10
ograas long as shutdown and reboot are still functional all is fine :)16:10
ogranow that was irritating ... ending up on a login screen in the middle of an upgrade16:16
pittiamitk: FYI, latest gnome-panel brings back shutdown options in system menu16:16
* ogra trusts his system when it tells to need to reboot after upgrade and just does that 16:17
ograso the gdm fusa forces me to look at mz face all the time16:20
ograwhere is mz kbd mapping gone _16:21
pittiogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/39510316:22
pittimost probably16:22
ubottuUbuntu bug 395103 in gdm "Gnome doesn't have my configured keyboard layout after login anymore" [Undecided,New]16:22
pittiyou can switch it back in gnome prefs16:22
pittibut really, US-layout is LOVE16:22
ionpitti: Amen, brother16:23
Tm_Tis not ):16:23
ogradepends what zou are used to16:23
pittiwell, if a German guy had invented LaTeX and vim, it wouldn't be16:23
ionpitti: I only use the fi layout for typing Finnish language.16:23
pitti(and C, and shell, etc.)16:23
* pitti watches ogra practicing16:25
ogradoesnt switch on the fly16:25
pittiand enjoy shift/alt-gr less /, \, =, `, etc. :)16:25
* ogra tries a re-login16:30
geserogra: don't forget to reset your keyboard layout after the re-login16:30
ograhmm, why does nothing happen if i click quit in fusa16:31
ograoh, nice it automatically pops up behind all open windows ... how convenient16:31
Tm_Tå ø æ too16:33
pitti^ ubuntu-love key16:34
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
=== akgraner_ is now known as akgraner
slangasekmathiaz: what things other than maintainer scripts do you possibly need that horrible shell library for?17:25
slangasekmathiaz: also, if it was provided separately it would also still need to be embedded in the maintainer scripts17:25
mathiazslangasek: right - I was looking for a standard way to create a new db backend17:27
mathiazslangasek: for example I was writting a ldap-based project and was looking into testing it17:27
mathiazslangasek: in order to do so I needed to setup up my own ldap directory and started to rewrite all the code from the maintainer script in my testing suite17:28
slangasekhmm, is it that you're specifically looking for debconf prompting as part of it?17:28
slangasekotherwise I wouldn't think those scripts would make a very good base17:28
mathiazslangasek: I don't think so.17:28
mathiazslangasek: right - I was just looking for a generic way setup a directory17:29
mathiazslangasek: one of the idea I had was to get something similar to the postgresql-common package.17:29
mathiazslangasek: where you have generic commands to create a new postgresql cluster, etc...17:30
* slangasek nods17:30
mathiazslangasek: I also need something similar to setup the directory infrastructure we talked about at UDS.17:30
mathiazslangasek: in that use case I need to load an additional schema to support MIT krb517:31
ograslangasek, arent you supposed to pretend 3 is 4 today too ? (go holidaying!)17:31
mathiazslangasek: and load a default DIT17:31
slangasekyou might be able to derive from scripts-common for this, but I definitely wouldn't install it unmodified given that everything in it is specifically targeted for maintainer scripts17:32
mathiazslangasek: it seems that these are functions that are already done in the maintainer scripts and was looking into a way to provide the same functionality outside the package17:32
mathiazslangasek: sure.17:32
mathiazslangasek: so I looked at it yesterday and tried to implement the same thing with puppet17:33
mathiazslangasek: I'm almost done now.17:33
mathiazslangasek: I was able to implement most of the functionality in puppet recipes.17:34
mathiazslangasek: thanks to the no_configuration debconf question which doesn't setup the package at all.17:34
mathiazslangasek: it's an interesting concept though.17:35
mathiazslangasek: and quite different from using shell/perl/python scripts17:35
mathiazslangasek: and I don't really know how this could be integrated since it would add a dependency on puppet17:36
slangasekyeah, not keen on that idea :)17:36
mathiazslangasek: right. However providing most of the functionality from the script-common in a package would be good idea?17:37
slangasekseems a reasonable thing to do if that's what you need17:38
ionPuppet is quite painful when you need functionality it doesn’t already offer. If the recipe syntax were an actual scripting language with a Puppet DSL, everything would be so much nicer. For instance, AFAIU, you can’t do something as simple as ‘if <query augeas for something> then <tell augeas to do something> else <tell augeas to do something else>’ without implementing your own ‘if’ structure separately within the Puppet Augeas module.17:43
mathiaz_slangasek: hm - I got dropped from my wireless network17:47
mathiaz_slangasek: did you add something after: < slangasek> seems a reasonable thing to do if that's what you need17:48
mathiaz_ion: right - however that's the point of puppet: not having a scripting langage17:51
mathiaz_ion: the great strenght is to have a DSL which is a descriptive language, and not a imperative language to express your configuration17:51
mathiaz_ion: it requires a change of mindset though.17:51
mathiaz_ion: and I also have to admit that I don't have enough experience with puppet - you may raise a valid point though.17:52
ionI simply haven’t found a way (changing the mindset or not) to make the augeas module do changes based on the result of an augeas query without hacking the module itself.17:52
mathiaz_ion: right. Why not use templates instead of augeas then?17:53
mathiaz_ion: I think augeas is a great piece of technology but I'm not sure about it fits exactly in the big picture.17:54
mathiaz_ion: I think augeas is a great piece of technology but I'm not sure *where* it fits exactly in the big picture.17:54
mathiaz_ion: what is your use case for augeas within puppet?17:54
ionWhen i wanted an automatically updated list of IRC server IP addresses as a whitelist for identd, instead of just doing DNS queries in the recipe, i had to write a Puppet module to do the queries. And even that can only be used in some very specific places in a recipe, not as a generic construct.17:54
ionmathiaz: I’d like to query whether there’s a “* hard nproc <anything>” rule in /etc/security/limits.conf and either add “* hard nproc 400” or replace the existing rule with that.17:56
ionmathiaz: And the equivalent for * soft nproc17:56
mathiaz_ion: right - wouldn't writting a fact to cover this be a solution?17:57
mathiaz_ion: and then use a template to generate the correct line?17:57
mathiaz_ion: the idea here is to *not* base the condition on the content of the limits.conf but rather on some environment facts17:58
mathiaz_ion: (such as this is a developer workstation, http production server, etc...)17:58
ionmathiaz: Whether limits.conf is touched by the thing would depend on a puppet manifest, but what i meant was “update ‘* hard nproc’ to 400 if a value already exists; otherwise add ‘* hard nrpoc 400’”.18:01
ionmathiaz: I should investigate http://wiki.opscode.com/display/chef/Home, perhaps it’s a worthy replacement for me.18:01
mathiaz_ion: right. so what you wanna achieve in this use case is to have a line that says '* hard nrpoc 400' in limits.conf on every host managed by puppet?18:02
mathiaz_ion: chef looks also promising - however it's a much younger project.18:03
mathiaz_ion: the main difference with puppet is that it uses ruby to express the configuration rather than a custom DSL.18:04
ionmathiaz: I’d make it a module (‘class proc-limit { if augeas-something then augeas-something else augeas-something }’) and do ‘include proc-limit’ within certain nodes.18:05
mathiaz_ion: some people think it's a good thing, others prefer to have a declarative langage to express configuration.18:05
ionIf i could use any Ruby constructs within the recipe, i could do the equivalent easily.18:05
mathiaz_ion: why don't you use a template instead of augeas? if every system needs to the same line it seems to be the best option.18:05
ionHow about if another module also wants to touch limits.conf? The point of puppet modules is supposedly that they are reusable. :-P18:06
ionMy puppet module for changing limits would supposedly be usable by anyone else with an OS that has limits.conf. Their OS packaging could even have preset rules that my puppet module shouldn’t touch.18:07
mathiaz_ion: right. It depends what the other module wanna do. The other module could call proc-limit definition with the relevant options.18:07
mathiaz_slangasek: so to summarize, having a slapd-common package seems to be a good idea?18:11
mathiaz_slangasek: the use case I'm trying to solve is the following: I need to be able to setup a slapd with a back-ldap + pcache overlay + nssov overlay with just one command18:13
mathiaz_slangasek: and another use case is: I need to be able to steup a slapd with a back-hdb + load schemas + load default DIT18:14
mathiaz_slangasek: all done from another package than slapd18:14
* pitti uploads gdm with unbroken keyboard layout setting18:21
* geser hugs pitti18:21
pitticjwatson: ok, so two of the desktop RC bugs are fixed now \o/18:24
pitticjwatson: thanks for fixing autologin in the installer18:24
mathiaz_pitti: hi - I'm looking at your postgresql-common package18:24
mathiaz_pitti: to get some inspiration for something similar to slapd18:25
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
pittimathiaz: for multiple different instances?18:25
mathiazpitti: hm - not necessarly18:25
pittimathiaz: don't look too hard, it's Perl :)18:25
mathiazpitti: it's true that sometimes we need to dump the bdb database18:25
pittiit was from the time when we didn't have Python in a defualt install18:26
mathiazpitti: when we upgrade from one version of slapd to another one18:26
pitti(which is still current in Debian)18:26
mathiazpitti: hm - that was one of my questions actually - if you had to restart now you'd code in python?18:26
pittimathiaz: I guess yes; OTOH it keeps my Perl skills above "dead"18:27
pittiand you get pretty far with perl-base18:27
mathiazpitti: right. I should talk to the debian maintainer team (ie slangasek)18:27
mathiazpitti: most of the functionality is actually already written in shell script as it's embedded in the maintainer scripts18:28
mathiazpitti: I'd like to extract these and provide them in a package (slapd-common) that could then be used by others things to setup different configuration of slapd.18:29
mathiazpitti: that's why I'm looking at your postgresql-common package.18:29
pittihave a good weekend everyone!18:36
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
mbanawhy does my screen flash when i'm in fullscreen mode?19:02
geofftogra, just out of curiosity, what caused your upgrade to make you end up at a login screen?19:05
geserprobably gdm19:08
sebnerit's definately gdm, here too ^^19:09
sebnerhuhu geser :D19:09
geserHi sebner19:09
* geser has a gdm without the keyboard layout bug :)19:09
sebnergeser: /me in some hours too (updates) *hehe*19:10
lfaraonedtchen: hey, could you help with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-sugarteam/2009-July/001098.html by any chance?19:26
=== asac_ is now known as asac
mneptoklifeless: woohaa NZ! - http://www.youtube.co.uk/watch?v=7-Mq9HAE62Y20:49
ionGreat, gdm killed the user session on upgrade.20:55
c_kornwhy did gdm remove fast-user-switch-applet?20:58
ionIt provides it.21:01
c_korneh, I don't see any applet21:03
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
=== nxvl_ is now known as nxvl
=== ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca
geserc_korn: the fusa changes didn't yet got updated for the new gdm (as far as the changelog tells)22:03
ograand the gdm fusa thats replacing it is just weird22:03
* ogra would really prefer if it wouldnt use his picture ... its strange to look at yourself on the panel all the time22:04
Sarvattgdm restarting the gnome session might be a nasty surprise for someone upgrading from jaunty :D22:57
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
NgSarvatt: mine didn't restart, it switched me to a login screen, but my session was still running23:03
Ngbut it's still not ideal ;)23:04
Ngimho we're always going to have problems trying to upgrade significant core compoenents of a running session23:04
Sarvattoh nice, mine completely restarted which i imagine would stink because it'd close the installer. i'm in the middle of upgrading an ibook from hardy to karmic so i'll see how that goes in a few hours :D23:05
Ngrelease upgrades seem like highly suitable fodder for the "install updates on shutdown" idea :)23:06
Sarvattwish i could have just installed karmic directly, but hardy is the newest release i could get to install on this thing. of course i found a way to do it on intrepid mid hardy install though23:08
=== Adri2000_ is now known as Adri2000
james_wcjwatson: thanks for your post on subprocess_setup, fta2 just reported a bug caused by that and I never would have found the solution otherwise23:38
YokoZarSo what happened to gnometris in karmic?23:46
ionOn that note, why is there a “FreeCell Solitaire”, which seems to be just “AisleRiot Solitaire” in Freecell mode and without the mode selector? :-)23:49
YokoZarion: because Aislerot is very unhelpful at helping you find other forms of solitaire to play23:50
YokoZarion: select game doesn't give a preview or explanation, for instance23:50
lifelessmneptok: classic23:54

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