[00:00] <asac> anyway, i think its made for releases where its clear how to get the tarball if you want to reproduce something
[00:00] <asac> but i agree its probably more in line with the original spirit of it ;)
[00:01] <fta> we discussed that last year or 2 years ago in the motu channel, we ended-up with get-current-source doing what you want
[00:01] <micahg> asac: any idea when ff3
[00:01] <micahg> .5 will hit jaunty?
[00:01] <asac> fta: what i want? ;)
[00:02] <fta> tarball matching d/changelog
[00:02] <fta> most of my rules files are providing that too
[00:03] <asac> right. i remember get-current-source now
[00:03] <asac> but we had problems implementing that for mozillas accurately, right?
[00:03] <asac> or was that just with CVS?
[00:04] <fta> we need a reverse mapping for the tags. it's fine when it's a snapshot as it contains the proper rev-id
[00:04] <fta> or date
[00:05] <asac> yeah thats what i thought
[00:05] <fta> what do you think of http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=15889 ?
[00:05] <asac> i wonder if bzr merge-options would be something we could use to have bzr branches that can reproduce the tarball if needed
[00:05] <asac> merge-upstream ;)
[00:05] <asac> not sure if bzr is up to that nowadays ;)
[00:06] <asac> e.g. mirroring daily progress of moz central for instance
[00:07] <asac> fta: sounds wrong for gnome. but chrome folks have to deide whether the want a unique experience accross platforms
[00:07] <fta> the problem with bzr mirrors is that we loose the upstream revisions, it's a pain when filing bugs
[00:07] <asac> or a slightly different one
[00:07] <asac> that obeys native laf
[00:07] <asac> fta: i dont mean bzr mirrors
[00:08] <asac> fta: bzr builddeb has a merge-upstream feature now
[00:08] <asac> or is it bzr?
[00:08] <asac> anyway ... its basically if you get a new tarball, you say: merge-upstream and then it will update the internal upstream branch
[00:08] <asac> and in future you can export tarballs independently that have matching checksum
[00:08] <asac> so its basically just a recorded "orig" bump
[00:08] <asac> like when you say "new upstream snapshot"
[00:09] <asac> that would be equivalent to a merge-upstream commit combined with bumping changelog
[00:09] <asac> so workflow would be:
[00:09] <asac> ./debian/rules get-orig-source
[00:09] <asac> bzr merge-upstream *orig.tar.gz
[00:10] <asac> and then you can just do bzr bd --export-upstream ... to get the upstream
[00:10] <asac> orig.tar.gz
[00:11] <asac> bzr help merge-upstream
[00:11] <asac>   Takes a new upstream version and merges it in to your branch, so that your
[00:11] <asac>   packaging changes are applied to the new version.
[00:11] <asac>   
[00:11] <asac>   You must supply the source to import from, and the version number of the
[00:12] <asac>   new release. The source can be a .tar.gz, .tar, .tar.bz2, .tgz or .zip
[00:12] <asac>   archive, or a directory. The source may also be a remote file.
[00:13] <asac> not mentioned how to export it on demand though ;)
[00:13] <asac> maybe its all automagic
[00:13] <asac> and it creates .bzr-builddeb/default.conf or something
[00:17] <asac> i guess its immature ;)
[00:17]  * asac stops testing that feature
[00:20] <micahg> asac: any idea on FF3.5 in Jaunty, people keep opening bugs...
[00:23] <fta> it's in the security ppa
[00:23] <fta> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[00:24] <fta> i also get may share of emails about that
[00:24] <fta> -may+my
[00:24] <micahg> ok, but it's going into jaunty-updates/security, right?
[00:25] <fta> not my call
[00:25] <micahg> asac: ^^^
[00:26] <asac> i dont know how i can be more clear ;)
[00:26] <asac> Karmic and Jaunty users:
[00:26] <asac> * just install the currently available firefox-3.5 package from universe and wait. The final bits will be there really soon. * If you want to have them earlier, enable ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA where the bits will land first.
[00:26] <micahg> I read it :)
[00:27] <micahg> but that's what I'm telling people also
[00:27] <asac> good... plan hasnt changed yet ;)
[00:27] <micahg> I just anticipate people asking: Are we there yet?
[00:28] <micahg> BTW, asac, bd murray has an extension that you can configure to replace the script you had
[00:28] <micahg> I just tried it
[00:28] <asac> the package hasnt been rolled to -security yet ;)
[00:28] <micahg> It lets you set importance, status, and replies
[00:28] <asac> micahg: yeah. greasemonkey
[00:28] <micahg> yeah
[00:30] <asac> micahg: i dont like greasemonkey. firing off a command is more efficient for me than waiting for launchpad ;)
[00:30] <asac> i used greasemonkey for some time
[00:30] <asac> but yes, its defintly an improvement.
[00:31] <micahg> ok, well, I think it'll help me some
[00:31] <micahg> and I"m testing it for FF3.5 right now :)
[00:32] <micahg> works fine for me
[00:32] <micahg> oops
[00:32] <micahg> wrong windeow :)
[00:37] <asac> heh
[00:38] <asac> was informational anyway ;)
[00:48] <BUGabundo> fta : #6Million done!
[00:49] <micahg> BUGabundo: 6 mil what?
[00:49] <fta> BUGabundo, ? was that a challenge?
[00:49] <fta> looks like spam to me
[00:49] <BUGabundo> fta one year old!
[00:49] <BUGabundo> micahg: dents
[00:49] <BUGabundo> http://identi.ca/notice/6000000
[01:04]  * BUGabundo caminha
[01:36] <rzr> hi
[01:36] <rzr> asac: around ?
[01:38] <rzr> asac: new flashblock to merge : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rzr/firefox-extensions/flashblock.ubuntu/revision/18
[01:39] <rzr> i'll use lp to notify it
[08:52] <asac> ola
[08:53] <asac> 3g busted in NM ppa
[08:53] <asac> so dont upgrade ;)
[10:28] <rzr> hi asac , can you release http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rzr/firefox-extensions/flashblock.ubuntu ?
[10:29]  * asac looking
[10:29] <asac> rzr: does it work with 3.5?
[10:30] <rzr> i havent check
[10:30] <rzr> maybe i should upgrade to karmic
[10:30] <asac> rzr: 3.5 is also in jaunty
[10:30] <asac> firefox-3.5
[10:30] <asac> also you can pick the final 3.5 for jaunty from the  ~ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA
[10:30] <rzr> so let's check this
[10:33] <rzr> i see i had 3.5 , and never ran it
[10:33] <rzr> b4pre
[10:34] <rzr> asac: ok captain it works
[10:37] <asac> good
[10:38] <asac> rzr: ok merged. i also added a .bzr-builddeb/default.conf with the upstream revision info ... please update it next time too
[10:38] <rzr> ok great
[10:39] <rzr> this has be merged in jaunty later , right ?
[10:39] <asac> uploaded
[10:39] <asac> rzr: no
[10:39] <asac> rzr: unless there are serious bugs resolved we wont update jaunty
[10:39] <rzr> ok
[10:40] <rzr> then i'll open them :)
[10:40] <rzr> or wait someone to do it
[10:41] <rzr> because i am not sure it works as expected
[10:44] <rzr> btw let me thank you for uploading
[10:45] <asac> rzr: could you please keep the changelog during merge at UNRELEASED and then do a final commit with "debcommit -r" ?
[10:45] <asac> (next time)
[10:45] <asac> its better to know when there was what release ;)
[10:45] <rzr> ok will do
[10:45] <asac> rzr: is there no hope that we will get a better upstream version?
[10:46] <asac> rzr: like the version they release on amo?
[10:46] <rzr> amo ?
[10:46] <asac> if not ... maybe we can spot the real release and reversion the snapshot?
[10:46] <asac> rzr: addons.mozilla.org
[10:47]  * rzr scratches his head
[10:47] <rzr> no i donno how
[10:49] <asac> rzr: do you remember this topic at all?
[10:49] <asac> our snapshot has a completely different versioning what they release there ... right?
[10:50] <asac> (sorry if i confuse flashblock with some other extension that has this phenomenon)
[10:50] <rzr> we only add that snapshot suffix
[10:50] <rzr> that's the same prefix
[10:50] <asac> 1.3.14~a2+snapshot20090627-0ubuntu1
[10:50] <asac> Flashblock 1.5.11.2
[10:51] <asac> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/433
[10:51] <rzr> the issue was about the 1.3.14~a2 which now goes before 1.3.14 they will release later
[10:51] <rzr> 1.3.14 is more compatible than 1.5.11.2
[10:51] <rzr> works w/ seamonkey and friends
[10:52] <asac>  Install Flashblock 1.5.11
[10:52] <asac> for Firefox 1.5 to 3.6a
[10:52] <asac> Netscape 9 and Flock 	Install Flashblock 1.3.14
[10:52] <asac> for SeaMonkey, Firefox 1.0.x
[10:52] <asac> and other browsersah ok
[10:52] <asac> rzr: whats the difference?
[10:52] <asac> is there any?
[10:52] <rzr> i see no advantage to use 1.5
[10:52] <asac> hmm
[10:52] <asac> whats the difference then?
[10:52] <rzr> i havent check
[10:52] <asac> why do they release a 1.5?
[10:52] <rzr> good question
[10:52] <asac> 2009-06-27: Flashblock 1.5.11 released for Firefox 1.5 to Firefox 3.6a (trunk), Netscape Navigator 9, Flock, and Intel Midbrowser.
[10:52] <asac> 2009-06-27: Flashblock 1.3.14 released for Firefox 1.0 to 3.6a, Mozilla Suite 1.7.x, Seamonkey 1.0a to 2.0, Netscape 7 to 9.0, and Flock.
[10:52] <asac> whats going on ;)
[10:52] <rzr> for netscape9 maybe
[10:52] <asac> crazy guyxs
[10:53] <rzr> no intel
[10:54] <rzr> i donno of this browser is it a branded version of fennec ?
[10:54] <asac> midbrowser?
[10:54] <rzr> yea
[10:54] <asac> i developed that at some point
[10:54] <asac> intel doesnt use it anymore
[10:54] <asac> they do something with mutter and trunk xulrunner now
[10:54] <asac> we have it in the archive even
[10:55] <asac> oh its removed again i think
[10:55] <rzr> ok i'll test it out on my tablet
[10:55] <asac> you can run midbrowser in normal desktop too
[10:55] <rzr> sure but it's more use on my freerunner or nit
[10:55] <rzr> +ful
[10:56] <rzr> btw, have you tested thoses android+ubuntu hacks ? i am about to write an article about this
[11:02] <asac> rzr: not personally, i saw demos on it during UDS
[12:02] <asac> hi Trouble
[12:03] <Trouble> Hello there!
[12:04] <asac> Trouble: are you in troubles ;) j.k.
[12:14] <jithine> asac: I got it now
[12:15] <jithine> asac: no need for full path just to be in top level src dir
[12:16] <asac> yeah ;)
[12:16] <asac> thx
[12:18] <jithine> asac: my problem was that initially i was trying it inside debian/patches directory and it was not working
[12:21] <asac> yeah
[12:21] <asac> rzr: did you ever get a confirm mail for the flashblock upload?
[12:22] <rzr> let me check
[12:36] <Trouble> asac: Lol no - Thankfully I'm not. Though my irc client highlights every time someone else is in trouble (and mentions "trouble") :_p
[12:45] <asac>  lol
[12:46] <rzr> asac: no mail from lp today maybe delayed
[12:56] <asac> hmm
[12:56] <asac> ok
[12:56] <asac> the package is in though
[12:56] <asac> i actually thought i would get a  mail
[12:56] <asac> maybe i already deleted it
[13:53] <fta2> asac, i fixed Bug 331654 days ago
[13:54] <asac> fta2: yes
[13:54] <asac> fta2: but not in jaunty ;)
[13:54] <asac> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/331654
[13:54] <asac> we need this as pseudo-SRU bug
[13:55] <asac> security team busted my plans to push this through -security
[13:57] <asac> configure: error:
[13:57] <asac> *** Checks for JPEG2000 loader failed. You can build without it by passing
[13:57] <asac> *** --without-libjasper to configure
[13:57] <asac> what the hell is that
[13:57] <asac> ;)
[13:57] <asac> maybe everyone can move to jpeg2000 ? ;)
[13:59] <fta2> where does that come from?
[14:00] <asac> gtk
[14:00] <asac> ./configure
[14:00] <asac> its on git head
[14:00] <asac> but i think i saw that before
[14:01] <asac> libjasper-dev - Development files for the JasPer JPEG-2000 library
[14:01] <asac> libjasper1 - The JasPer JPEG-2000 runtime library
[14:01] <asac> libjasper-runtime - Programs for manipulating JPEG-2000 files
[14:02] <asac> seems to be not decoding, but manipulating and coding
[14:16] <rzr> asac: i noticed that it appear in the changelog , but not in the current versions
[14:16] <rzr> now it's ok
[14:16] <rzr> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashblock
[14:17] <rzr> i suppose it's updated once built
[14:38] <asac> so xulrunner-1.9.1 and firefox-3.5 ended up in jaunty-propose :/
[14:39] <fta2> ?
[14:41] <armin76> :D
[14:41] <asac> fta2: too much garbage in the upload for direct -security fastpath
[14:42] <asac> http://identi.ca/notice/6020569
[14:42] <asac> i didnt want to back out all
[14:42] <asac> well i offered to do it
[14:42] <asac> but so far things go smooth ;)
[14:45]  * asac late lunch for real
[14:56] <asac> mozilla  bug 502208
[14:57] <asac> our tbird 3 daily is busted as it seems
[14:57] <asac> maybe missing a file or something
[14:57]  * asac off for lunch for real real real ;)
[15:13] <fta2> asac, i don't use tb at all so i don't know when it breaks, and i don't have much time to fix it anyway. if noone else volunteers, maybe i should drop it from the daily
[15:23] <asac> fta2: its ok.
[15:23] <asac> nobody mentioned it so its probably recent breakage
[15:24] <asac> the idea of dailies is that they break ;)
[15:24] <asac> so we notice ;)
[16:18] <asac> fta2: did daily run already happen? or in 40 min?
[16:19] <asac> ok added missing files for tbird
[16:19] <asac> lets hope dailies get ready soon so i can verify ;)
[16:19] <fta2> 40min
[16:19] <asac> great
[16:20]  * asac glances at builders
[16:20] <asac> seems there is potential for digesting them ;)
[16:20] <asac> i386      2 builds waiting in queue
[16:20] <asac> amd64      13 builds waiting in queue
[16:20] <asac> lpia      14 builds waiting in queue
[16:21] <fta2> most builders are doing something else apparently
[16:22] <asac> hmm
[16:22] <asac> Building lpia build of firefox-3.6 3.6~a1~hg20090702r29966+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~hardy in ubuntu hardy RELEASE [ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa]
[16:22] <asac> is that a late comer?
[16:22] <asac> lpia
[16:22] <fta2> xul was broken, i fixed it earlier today
[16:22] <asac> thx
[16:22] <asac> only on lpia?
[16:23] <fta2> no, all
[16:23]  * asac still wondering why he doesnt get any build failure mail anymore
[16:35] <fta2> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/ppa-builders.png
[17:24]  * asac gets crazy
[17:24] <asac> half of day debugging why ffox 3.5 doesnt honour hint_style
[17:24] <asac> it vanishes from font_options somehow
[17:41]  * asac feels crazy ;9
[17:42] <asac> guess have to take a break
[18:30]  * asac confused by system/moz-cairo mix in a --disable-system-cairo build
[18:51] <BUGabundo> guud evening
[18:51] <asac> hi
[18:52] <BUGabundo> hey asac
[18:56] <mbana> hello
[18:57] <BUGabundo> hello mbana
[18:59] <asac> micahg:
[18:59] <asac> 14:54 < asac> we need this as pseudo-SRU bug
[18:59] <asac> 14:55 < asac> security team busted my plans to push this through -security
[18:59] <asac> 14:57 < asac> configure: error:
[18:59] <micahg> yes?
[19:00] <micahg> asac: which bug?
[19:00] <asac> micahg: so firefox-3.5 is now in proposed ;)
[19:00] <micahg> ah
[19:00] <micahg> ok
[19:00] <micahg> :)
[19:00] <micahg> thanks
[19:01] <asac> micahg: too many non-security changes in packaging
[19:01] <BUGabundo> fta: ping
[19:01] <asac> so monday most likely
[19:01] <micahg> ok
[19:03] <micahg> are the packages in teh security ppa and proposed the same?
[19:03] <fta> BUGabundo, ?
[19:03] <micahg> We've had some possible user agent bugs
[19:04] <BUGabundo> fta if you have too many dent from me, you can instead follow my other OMB account! it only has 6 dents/day
[19:04] <BUGabundo> http://www.macno.org/denticator/?service=brainbird.co.cc&user=bugabundo
[19:04] <BUGabundo> fta http://www.macno.org/denticator/?service=&user=fta&chart=flash
[19:04] <BUGabundo> Absolute average: 682 dents since 2009-01-11 (174 days): 3.92  dents/day
[19:04] <asac> micahg: yes
[19:05] <asac> pfft
[19:05] <asac> DirectFB thing is not fixed in thebes yet
[19:07] <asac> bug 304033
[19:08] <asac> MEDIUM
[19:08] <asac> crazy guys
[19:08] <BUGabundo> aaaahaha
[19:08] <BUGabundo> asac: well it did affect a bunch of users
[19:08] <BUGabundo> works for me! it always has!
[19:08] <BUGabundo> only was affected by a similar bug for 1 day
[19:09] <asac> its still broken in karmic
[19:09] <asac> guys you should really care for the archive
[19:09] <asac> and not only ppas ;)
[19:09] <BUGabundo> yeah
[19:09] <BUGabundo> asac: it shouldn't even be in archive!!!
[19:09] <BUGabundo> it can!!
[19:09] <asac> it doesnt help if you run the .head if noone pushes stuff to the archive
[19:09] <asac> better keep running archive and bug folks to update gwibber
[19:09] <BUGabundo> gwibber is one of those apps that only works on a PPA with often releases
[19:09] <asac> i dont think so
[19:10] <asac> why would that be the case
[19:10] <asac> its just undermaintained from what i understand
[19:10] <BUGabundo> or we need to change the rules
[19:10] <asac> what rules?
[19:10] <asac> gwibber doesnt brake in a stable release
[19:10] <BUGabundo> and allow packages to change features on stable release
[19:10] <asac> BUGabundo: thats not the problem for this case, is it?
[19:10] <BUGabundo> eheh
[19:10] <asac> the jaunty version still works from what i know
[19:10] <BUGabundo> won't comment on it :)
[19:11] <BUGabundo> but no support for jaiku, redent, etc
[19:11] <asac> well
[19:11] <BUGabundo> or even SSL-less laconica
[19:11] <asac> thats a differnt story
[19:11] <BUGabundo> its features
[19:11] <asac> but thats not a regression
[19:11]  * BUGabundo searches for a power socket
[19:11] <asac> what you see in karmic is a regression
[19:13]  * BUGabundo finds a power socket in the max reach of power cord :\
[19:14] <fta> asac, gwibber never releases anything, so it's a random snapshot or nothing
[19:14] <BUGabundo> yep
[19:14] <BUGabundo> that's right
[19:15] <BUGabundo> *if* they had releases, they might be able to fix asac prob!
[19:15] <BUGabundo> but they don't even have branches for head and releases
[19:16] <fta> i will push a random snapshot but i need to figure out what are those -u2
[19:17] <asac> fta: well. if the random snapshot is stable enough its ok
[19:17] <asac> i am commiting now the not-committed releases
[19:19] <BUGabundo> what are you both talking about?
[19:20] <fta> some guy pushed changes to karmic without using the bzr branch
[19:20] <BUGabundo> who and what?
[19:20] <BUGabundo> right since this cycle everything is supposed to be in bzr right?
[19:24] <asac> fta: yes. i replayed them now and merged from daily. let me check if its good
[19:27] <fta> what were the changes?
[19:28] <asac> Bah! ... and Ah! ;)
[19:28] <asac> first was no change upload
[19:28] <asac> second unfixed libwebkit version
[19:29] <asac> public timeline is broken for me?
[19:29] <asac> you see that too?
[19:29] <asac> was there public before?
[19:30] <asac> ah ok
[19:30] <asac> its a bug
[19:30] <asac> i didnt have any public timeline enabled
[19:30] <asac> the tab shouldnt be there then
[19:30] <asac> or indicate that one has nothing to expect
[19:31] <BUGabundo> asac: if you remove it there's no way to get it back
[19:31] <BUGabundo> unless you close and start again
[19:31] <BUGabundo> eheh
[19:31] <asac> it hsould just be hidden and not removable?
[19:31] <asac> how do i remove it?
[19:31] <BUGabundo> ctrl+w
[19:31] <asac> ah its a view
[19:31] <asac> view -> public timeline
[19:31] <BUGabundo> or mouse middle click
[19:31] <asac> works
[19:31] <asac> comes back for me
[19:32] <BUGabundo> nope
[19:32] <BUGabundo> not for me
[19:34] <BUGabundo> asac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/357206
[19:34] <BUGabundo> humm
[19:34] <BUGabundo> doenst work for me
[19:34] <BUGabundo> LOL
[19:34] <BUGabundo> oh wait.  diff bug
[19:34] <BUGabundo> LOL
[19:34] <BUGabundo> nvm
[19:35] <asac> BUGabundo: in View menu
[19:36] <BUGabundo> I saw it
[19:36] <BUGabundo> pressed and pressed again
[19:36] <BUGabundo> didn't reopen
[19:36] <BUGabundo> then again I don't have the pubic feed enable
[19:36] <BUGabundo> let me try that
[19:37] <BUGabundo> darn it! it crashed before I got there
[19:41] <BUGabundo> asac: ok seems to work
[19:42] <asac> thats what i mean ;)
[19:42] <asac> BUGabundo: feel like jumping the gun and trying NM trunk?
[19:43] <BUGabundo> humm
[19:43] <BUGabundo> will it work??
[19:43] <BUGabundo> already running modem manager trunk
[19:43] <asac> i think it should work better than the nm 0.7.1 with modemmanager at least
[19:43] <BUGabundo> ok
[19:43] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk
[19:43] <BUGabundo> then I need to remobe MM?
[19:43] <asac> thats NM 0.8~a ... and NMA
[19:43] <BUGabundo> 0.8??
[19:43] <asac> BUGabundo: the modemmangaer is a copy ... just add the ppa and upgrade
[19:43] <asac> BUGabundo: yes nm trunk is 0.8
[19:43] <BUGabundo> I keep MM ppa?
[19:44] <BUGabundo> or remove it?
[19:44] <asac> BUGabundo: dont need to ... i coped the mm to the trunk ppa too
[19:44] <asac> and will keep doing so
[19:44] <asac> i am seriously thinking about pushing that to karmic
[19:44] <asac> just need initial feedback ;)
[19:45] <BUGabundo> and you pick the crist here
[19:45] <BUGabundo> ok ok
[19:47] <asac> thought you like new stuff ;)
[19:48] <BUGabundo> I do!
[19:49] <BUGabundo> but I also like it working
[19:49] <BUGabundo> eheh
[19:49] <BUGabundo> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[19:49] <BUGabundo>   modemmanager{u}
[19:49] <asac> i didnt run the package, but i ran the git tree and it worked well
[19:49] <BUGabundo> The following packages will be upgraded: network-manager network-manager-dev network-manager-gnome
[19:50] <asac> BUGabundo: removes modemmanager?
[19:50] <asac> what does {u} mean?
[19:50] <BUGabundo> no idea!
[19:50] <BUGabundo> aptitude words
[19:51] <asac> BUGabundo: what does sudo apt-get upgrade suggest?
[19:51] <BUGabundo> $ apt-cache policy modemmanager  | pastebinit
[19:51] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/209211/
[19:51] <BUGabundo> now running aptitude! need to wait
[19:52] <asac> BUGabundo: so you accepted that mm gets removed? ok.
[19:52] <BUGabundo> sure!
[19:52] <BUGabundo> I do what im told
[19:52] <BUGabundo> hummm
[19:52] <BUGabundo> nm-applet just blew
[19:53] <BUGabundo> got a error message but pressed SPACE accidentily
[19:53] <BUGabundo> GUI confirmations SHOULD never do that :(((
[19:53] <BUGabundo> need to restart
[19:53] <BUGabundo> gonna halt and have dinner
[19:53] <asac> BUGabundo: install modemmanager also
[19:53] <BUGabundo> if I don't come back in 30/40 min its your fault!
[19:53] <BUGabundo> LOL
[19:53] <asac> its not getting removed fir me ;)
[19:53] <asac> you should really dump aptitude
[19:54] <asac> thats really an annoying package management frontend
[19:54] <BUGabundo> installed
[19:54] <BUGabundo> asac: its much better then apt-get to manage confilcts
[19:54] <BUGabundo> even a simple aptitude update tells you much more
[19:55] <asac> well. but it sometimes does stupid things that are really unexpected
[19:57] <BUGabundo> asac: bugs in depencies
[19:57] <BUGabundo> ?
[19:58] <mbana> i;m glad the font bug was given high status
[19:58] <BUGabundo> asac: fta: apport failing to open FF?
[19:59] <asac> not sure
[19:59] <asac> BUGabundo: do you see anything in .xsession-errors?
[19:59] <asac> mbana: which font bug are you seeing?
[19:59] <BUGabundo> a lot !?
[19:59] <BUGabundo> its always filed
[19:59] <BUGabundo> lol
[20:00] <mbana> asac: the 3.5
[20:00] <asac> BUGabundo: see you something that looks like its firefox failing
[20:00] <asac> mbana: are you on jaunty?
[20:00] <BUGabundo> no
[20:00] <asac> mbana: or karmic?
[20:00] <BUGabundo> pastebining
[20:01] <mbana> januty
[20:01] <asac> mbana: which cairo version is installed there?
[20:02] <asac> mbana: are you running our firefox build?
[20:02] <mbana> no ... repo
[20:02] <asac> mbana: what does repo mean?
[20:02] <asac> you mean archive.ubuntu.com ?
[20:02] <mbana> asac:  main repo sir.
[20:02] <asac> k
[20:03] <asac> mbana: and your sympomts are that the gnome font hinting settings are not used?
[20:03] <mbana> to be honest, i'm not entirely sure.  i just want it to have the same rendering as ff 3.1, shall i try a ppa?
[20:03] <asac> mbana: no.
[20:04] <asac> mbana: what you ned to check is if the rendering is the same as the rendering of other apps on the desktop
[20:04] <asac> like other gnome apps
[20:04] <asac> thats the baseline we have to compare against
[20:04] <asac> ffox 3.0 might have been buggy - even though it might have been fortunately for you buggy.
[20:05] <mbana> yes.  ff 3.1 is using the desktop rendering.  ff 3.5 isn't
[20:05] <asac> but what we should aim for is that firefox has the same fonts in the menu etc. that are used in other menus
[20:05] <asac> mbana: so your problem is only in the content area?
[20:05] <asac> e.g. on the html pages?
[20:05] <asac> or also the menu fonts, etc.
[20:05] <mbana> precisely.
[20:05] <mbana> no the menus are perfect
[20:06] <mbana> it's the content area, as you sya.
[20:06] <BUGabundo> dinner and a reboot
[20:07] <BUGabundo> bbl , I hope ;)
[20:08] <asac> mbana: does that problem go away if you disallow websites choosing their own fonts? (in preferences -> conten -> fonts ...)
[20:08] <asac> which bug if was that again?
[20:09] <mbana> it's ff 3.5 rendering something, i can't recall the exact name
[20:09] <mbana> brb
[20:11] <asac> bug 379761
[20:28]  * asac goes off to dinner ;)
[20:31] <reed> yawnmoo
[20:46] <BUGabundo> asac: I'm here. so at least wifi works
[20:47] <BUGabundo> will test 3g latter
[20:57] <BUGabundo> asac: read it ?
[20:58] <BUGabundo> mbana: ping what conclusion did you get from the Fonts issue?
[21:02] <BUGabundo> asac: users on locoteam complaing about FF3.5 fonts, they look like bold!
[21:07] <BUGabundo> asac: https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.feedback.firefox.prerelease/browse_thread/thread/44a6ad4702915b95?fwc=1
[21:07] <BUGabundo> FF3.5 plus Google toolbar
[21:07] <BUGabundo> makes FF lose tooltips
[21:08] <BUGabundo> I know its not a FF bug, but I've asked the user to put it on LP so you can dupe others
[21:08] <BUGabundo> micahg: ping ^^^^^^^^
[21:08] <micahg> BUGabundo: pong
[21:09] <micahg> BUGabundo: I don't see any such thing with RC2
[21:10] <BUGabundo> micahg: users just reported it to me, and said removing Gbar fixed it
[21:10] <micahg> ah
[21:10] <micahg> I don't have google toolbar
[21:10] <micahg> maybe they should fix their toolbar
[21:10] <BUGabundo> yep
[21:10] <BUGabundo> they know about it
[21:10] <BUGabundo> but users may report it against FF on LP
[21:11] <micahg> ok
[21:11] <micahg> thanks for the headsup
[21:15] <BUGabundo> micahg: another one: fonts as BOLD
[21:15] <BUGabundo> https://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/921561/1/Screenshots?h=5c8570
[21:15] <BUGabundo> see two last images
[21:18] <micahg> that firefox-lp is speeding up triage
[21:18] <BUGabundo> micahg: fta: asac: https://labs.mozilla.com/2009/03/firefox-new-tab-next-iteration/
[21:18] <BUGabundo> really kewl
[21:20] <micahg> asac: is it offically listed anywhere that proper updates for Firefox in Ubuntu is through Synaptic?
[21:20] <micahg> I keep getting bug reports for it
[21:22] <mbana> BUGabundo: i'm not sure what to do.  all i can say is, the menu, as asac mentioned, is rendering correctly, the page isn't
[21:22] <asac> BUGabundo: isnt that old?
[21:23] <asac> BUGabundo: great. so NM trunk works ok?
[21:28] <BUGabundo> asac: any apt front end should do it!
[21:28] <fta> grrrr... http://paste.ubuntu.com/209269/
[21:28] <BUGabundo> asac: works
[21:28] <BUGabundo> asac: old what?
[21:28] <BUGabundo> micahg: : any apt front end should do it!  sorry asac
[21:29] <micahg> BUGabundo: agreed
[21:29] <micahg> but does it say that anywhere
[21:29] <micahg> peoples keep asking about the greyed out update option
[21:29] <micahg> especially now that they want ff3.5
[21:30] <BUGabundo> micahg: mirrors still updating?
[21:30] <BUGabundo> micahg: both my mirrors have it $ apt-cache policy firefox-3.5 |pastebinit
[21:30] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/209271/
[21:32] <BUGabundo> asac: what's up with mutt?!?!
[21:35] <micahg> BUGabundo: that's karmic. not jaunty
[21:36] <BUGabundo> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
[21:36] <BUGabundo> totally missed my mind
[21:37] <micahg> asac: I'm just wondering what I can tell a guy who I've been waiting to reply on a bug
[21:37] <micahg> about if it officially states anywhere that apt updates FF and not the menu option
[21:39] <BUGabundo> micahg: ask apt-cache policy firefox-3.5
[21:39] <micahg> BUGabundo: you want to see my rsults?
[21:40] <micahg> BUGabundo: http://pastebin.com/f3037a61d
[21:42] <BUGabundo> archive on b4??
[21:42] <micahg> BUGabundo: jaunty
[21:42] <BUGabundo> what ppa has .1 ?
[21:42] <micahg> moz-daily
[21:42] <BUGabundo> didn't jaunty also got -security ?
[21:43] <micahg> BUGabundo: not yet, that's what asac was going on about earlier
[21:43] <micahg> BUGabundo: my question though is about documentation
[21:43] <BUGabundo> all week ? ;)
[21:43] <BUGabundo> micahg: no documentaion !! PPL have to wait!
[21:44] <micahg> BUGabundo: about the menu option, not when the update wil happen
[21:45] <BUGabundo> the update menu HAS always been disable
[21:45] <BUGabundo> we get updates from archive
[21:45] <micahg> BUGabundo: that doesn't help new users
[21:45] <micahg> you and I know that
[21:46] <BUGabundo> o what??
[21:46] <BUGabundo> aren't they running a stable system?
[21:46] <BUGabundo> s/o/so/
[21:46] <micahg> BUGabundo: new users coming from windows expect firefox to behave the same
[21:47] <micahg> someone was commenting on how it would be nice if the menu option being disabled was documented
[21:47] <micahg> I'm just wondering if it is before I reply
[21:47] <BUGabundo> so they expect Virus the same!?!
[21:47] <BUGabundo> or Exporer?
[21:47] <micahg> otherwise, I'll throw somethign on the wiki
[21:47] <BUGabundo> or MSFT office? or to pay for it?
[21:47] <micahg> no, FF in Windows checks for updates within the browser
[21:48] <BUGabundo> its a diff OS with diff way to keep the system
[21:48] <micahg> BUGabundo: agreed, but it would be nice if it was documented
[21:48] <BUGabundo> micahg: FF on Win is no FF on Linux
[21:50] <micahg> BUGabundo: I'm going to update help.ubuntu.com for people
[21:50] <BUGabundo> ok
[21:51] <BUGabundo> you have perm for that one ?
[21:51] <micahg> yep :)
[21:51] <micahg> I think everyone does
[21:53] <BUGabundo> nope
[21:53] <BUGabundo> almost no one does
[21:53] <BUGabundo> wiki.ubuntu, yes
[21:53] <BUGabundo> help.u no!
[21:55] <micahg> BUGabundo: wfm
[21:55] <BUGabundo> ah?
[21:56] <fta> asac, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28670842/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.thunderbird-3.0_3.0~b3~hg20090703r3009%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:56] <micahg> BUGabundo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion
[21:57] <asac> sorry irssi didnt continue to scroll
[21:57] <asac> so i didnt see any msg ;)
[21:57] <BUGabundo> lolol
[21:57] <BUGabundo> I have no idea what I told you before either
[21:57] <asac> micahg: i dont think that its officially documented that ubuntu firefox doesnt use the mozilla auto update feature
[21:57] <BUGabundo> ahah
[21:57] <asac> micahg: not sure where do document something like that
[21:57] <micahg> asac: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion
[21:57] <asac> micahg: maybe a FAQ page?
[21:57] <micahg> just added it to the introduction
[21:57] <asac> BUGabundo: old: the new-tab blog entry you posted
[21:58] <BUGabundo> ahhh
[21:58] <BUGabundo> new to me
[21:58] <asac> BUGabundo: mutt: i dont know. usually it asked me if i want to move seen mail to inbox-seen or something ... but it stopped doing that apparently in one of the karmic updates
[21:58] <micahg> asac: does that post on help.ubuntu work?
[21:59] <asac> micahg: "tell a guy that didnt answer". depends if the bug doesnt look like a gem, just set it to invalid and say that if he has the info, he should reopen the bug
[21:59] <BUGabundo> asac: it's a mutt profile rule/option. maybe default changed!
[21:59] <micahg> asac: Oh, I've already responded, the bug was too big to begin with
[21:59] <asac> fta: damn ;)
[21:59] <micahg> asac: I'm just wondering if what I posted was ok on help.ubuntu
[22:00] <asac> micahg: which post on help.ubuntu?
[22:00] <asac> where?
[22:00] <micahg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion
[22:00] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/209289/ :(
[22:00] <BUGabundo> asac: micahg already pasted it 3 times
[22:00] <micahg> asac: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion
[22:00] <asac> micahg: did you create that page now or did that exist before?
[22:00] <asac> nice
[22:00] <micahg> it existed before
[22:00] <micahg> I edited the Intro
[22:00] <micahg> I added the last 2 lines
[22:01] <asac> micahg: not sure if we should really put firefox 3.5 on it ... it will get old and if nobody cleans it up the help site looks outdated
[22:01] <asac> ok
[22:01] <micahg> asac: I didn't do that
[22:01] <asac> just remember to remove the firefox 3.5 news when its done
[22:01] <micahg> asac: I don't maintain it :)
[22:01] <micahg> asac: What I posted was timeless
[22:01] <micahg> unless we move from apt to yum :)
[22:01] <asac> ok
[22:02] <asac> micahg: but now you touched it and so you own it ;)
[22:02] <micahg> agh
[22:02] <asac> jk
[22:02] <micahg> yeah
[22:02] <micahg> that's the beauty of this team, right asac?
[22:02] <asac> hehe
[22:02] <micahg> now I have to get some work work done
[22:03] <asac> fta: great. this gzip error looks awful famlilar
[22:03] <asac> what does python do to tar?
[22:03] <asac> it also happens with cdbs and bzr bd some times
[22:04] <fta> micahg, there's not such things as an "early alpha of Firefox 3.5.1". Now that 3.5 is released, all 3.5.* are just minor releases, so 3.5.1pre is not alpha at all, it's an intermediate snapshot between minor releases
[22:04] <asac> fta: its only -xf
[22:04] <micahg> fta: I didnt't write it
[22:04] <asac> where is the -z
[22:04] <micahg> you're welcome to edit it...it's community docs
[22:05] <fta> asac, missing, but it's the same
[22:06] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/209297/
[22:08] <micahg> fta: I'll look at the page over the weekend
[22:08] <asac> fta: i dont understand why without a -z there is a gzip problem
[22:08] <asac> anyway. seems like python does somethig harmful to subprocesses pipes
[22:09] <fta> indeed
[22:09]  * asac wonders how a parent process could prevent chils processes from doing proper pipes
[22:09] <asac> especially accidentially
[22:10] <asac> fta: can you reproduce that?
[22:10] <asac> fta: with a small tarball?
[22:10] <asac> if so file a bug please and let someone familiar with python look at that
[22:10] <asac> or check python upstream
[22:10] <asac> or does that only happen with builddeb
[22:10] <asac> ?
[22:11] <mbana> asac: obviously, u don't want my reply on that bug do you?  the menu stuff
[22:12] <asac> mbana: the menu stuff?
[22:12] <asac> i replied on the font bug i thought this was it about
[22:12] <asac> you didnt give me the bug id ;)
[22:12] <asac> or did you?
[22:12] <mbana> that's it
[22:14] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/209301/
[22:14] <asac> mbana: whats it?
[22:14] <asac> i didnt see anything posted by you
[22:15] <asac> fta: and doing the same tarball in a while loop?
[22:15] <mbana> no, i asked if you want me to confirm if the menu uses diff rendering, amybe to the benefit of others
[22:16] <asac> mbana: so bug 379761 ?
[22:16] <mbana> yes, i reported it
[22:17] <asac> mbana: yes. seems all the others on the bug dont see the bug you wanted to file
[22:17] <asac> ok retitled
[22:17] <asac> 379761
[22:17] <asac> please update the bug. sy that upstream build has problems everywhere
[22:17] <asac> and that archive packages are ok, in chrome, but have problems on website
[22:19] <asac> also be verbose about what you consider a problem. i didnt really see the problem/difference in your screenshot. i only see that its different. whether ffox 3 is right or 3.5 is still a mystery to me
[22:21] <mbana> how do you want me to prove it
[22:22] <asac> i dont want you to prove
[22:22] <asac> i want to you identify whats the difference is
[22:22] <asac> then we have to check on code if that difference is a bug or a fix
[22:23] <mbana> asac, look at the content of the page and look at the gnome task panel
[22:23] <asac> mbana: well. the content of the page probably uses a different font ... e.g. whatever the website wants
[22:23] <mbana> and on that screenshot, even the menus aren't rendering correctly, but it seems to be fixed now
[22:23] <asac> mbana: if you want the same font for sans that is used in the task panel
[22:23] <asac> you have to prevent website selecting their own fonts
[22:23] <asac> (e.g. Preferences -> Content -> Fonts -> Settings... ")
[22:23] <asac> or something
[22:24] <asac> mbana: consider to check if you have the same setting in 3.0 as in 3.5
[22:24] <mbana> all the fonts --- ff 3.1 and 3.5 and the task panel --- are the same
[22:24] <mbana> dejavu sans
[22:24] <asac> mbana: can you also post the url in the bug to reproduce what you snapshotted
[22:24] <mbana> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization
[22:26] <mbana> asac: that screen is from a first launch of FF 3.1 and 3.5, nothing was tweeked
[22:26] <asac> mbana: for me both look identical
[22:26] <asac> mbana: mbana 3.1 = 3.0?
[22:26] <asac> (e.e.g there is no 3.1)
[22:26] <mbana> yes, sorry
[22:26] <asac> mbana: so in about:config
[22:26] <asac> browser.display.use_document_fonts
[22:26] <asac> is set to 0 in ffox 3 and 3.5?
[22:27] <mbana> 1 in both.  but i don't want to set it to 0, i prefer to use the font the site was specified
[22:28] <mbana> maybe, you post a binary on the bug report so others can confirm the behaviour
[22:28] <mbana> unfortunately, builds from mozilla are just hideous
[22:29] <asac> mbana: yeah. just please check:
[22:29] <asac> if you set it in 3.0 to 0
[22:29] <asac> and keep it in 3.5 to 1
[22:29] <asac> does it look identical?
[22:29] <mbana> yes, it's 1 in 3.0
[22:29] <mbana> browser.display.use_document_fonts;1
[22:33] <BUGabundo> micahg: link to ppa with 3,5 final ?
[22:33] <micahg> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[22:36] <BUGabundo> asac: LOLOLOLOL if I place 3.6 on full screen, it won't come out OLOLOLOL fta can you test ?
[22:37] <asac> mbana: so what i did: 1. create a new user account. log-in
[22:37] <asac> start ffox 3.0 and ffox 3.5 next to each other
[22:37] <asac> and the fonts look exactly the same
[22:37] <mbana> please take a screen.  is this your personal build?
[22:38] <asac> mbana: no. its the build from daily PPA
[22:38] <micahg> BUGabundo: with F11?
[22:38] <asac> but that should be the same as 3.5 final
[22:38] <BUGabundo> micahg: yes
[22:38] <asac> ok i take a screen ... let me re log in
[22:38] <micahg> BUGabundo: wfm on jaunty
[22:39] <BUGabundo> karmic FF3.6
[22:39] <BUGabundo> daily
[22:39] <micahg> BUGabundo: I'm 2 days behind
[22:39] <micahg> on ff3.6
[22:39] <BUGabundo> LOL
[22:39] <micahg> let me upgrade
[22:40] <BUGabundo> so that I know what to replies to unpacient users: asac what's delaying FF3.5 (the hally grail Final, and oficial branding) on jaunty archive?
[22:40] <BUGabundo> getting tired of ppl asking for it
[22:41] <mbana> it'll be a sin to release it until this font bug is fixed ;)
[22:41] <micahg> BUGabundo: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/03/%23ubuntu-mozillateam.txt aroung 13:50
[22:42] <micahg> and 19:00
[22:44] <micahg> BUGabundo: confirmed with 0703 daily
[22:44] <asac> mbana: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot2.png
[22:44] <BUGabundo> thanks micahg
[22:44] <BUGabundo> micahg: thanks
[22:44] <BUGabundo> care to file it?
[22:44] <micahg> BUGabundo: worked fine on 0701
[22:44] <BUGabundo> I'm a very slow net
[22:45] <mbana> asac: ok seems like you got slight hinting.  have you tried setting the hinting to full?  because i believe that's when u notice a difference
[22:45] <BUGabundo> fta its your deal
[22:45] <micahg> BUGabundo: nope, I've gotta finish a project up before Monday
[22:45] <BUGabundo> we got it bisected
[22:45] <BUGabundo> errr
[22:45] <BUGabundo> how do I remove it now ?!? LOL
[22:45] <asac> mbana: so in gnome settings?
[22:45] <asac> or in fontconfig?
[22:45] <mbana> yes, or even in .fonts.conf, what u prefer
[22:45] <mbana> how can i do it through fontconfig?
[22:46] <asac> btw that info _needs_ to be in the bug
[22:46] <asac> mbana: err. please remove fonts.conf
[22:46] <asac> firefox 3.0 has bugs in fontconfig processing
[22:46] <asac> so that might make a difference
[22:46] <asac> just use gnome-settings
[22:46] <asac> and dont touch .fonts.conf
[22:47] <asac> otherwise i need the .fonts.conf for sure
[22:47] <asac> to see if its a bug or not
[22:47] <asac> (attach to bug too)
[22:49] <asac> mbana: yeah so with full hinting its different
[22:49] <asac> (gnome-settings)
[22:49] <asac> let me check fontconfig full hinting
[22:50] <mbana> (when i try to switch user, my internet connection seems to die, for instance, xchat will disconnect.  something wrong on my end?  u checking on another machine?)
[22:51] <BUGabundo> asac: now I'll try 3G
[22:51] <BUGabundo> brb
[22:52] <asac> mbana: ok. you can mark the connection in connection editor as "available to all users"
[22:52] <asac> mbana: then its a system wide connection and wont die
[22:55] <BUGabundo> asac: not so good news: NM doesn't see 3G modem!
[22:56] <asac> mbana: ok so please update the bug summary: add that this happens when hinting is set to full. also give the example URL
[22:56] <asac> i could reproduce it, so there is something i can work on at least ;)
[22:56] <mbana> wo ha
[22:57] <micahg> asac: you still work on NM>?
[22:57] <mbana> i'll paste in the this chat session, if you don't mind
[22:58] <micahg> mbana: if it's more than one line, paste to pastebin
[23:01] <asac> micahg: yes
[23:01] <asac> micahg: use paste.ubuntu.com ;)
[23:01] <asac> mbana: ^ ;)
[23:02] <micahg> asac: what to do with crash reports on 3.5b4?
[23:04] <BUGabundo> !paste | mbana
[23:04] <asac> micahg: if they have no way to reproduce and no recent duplicates, maybe wait to see if 3.5 final brings in duplicates
[23:04] <mbana> lol
[23:04] <asac> micahg: otherwise close
[23:05] <micahg> ok, so I'll wait till next weekend
[23:05] <micahg> BUGabundo: next time use > instead of |, that's almost as bad a not using pastebin :)
[23:06] <BUGabundo> ahahah
[23:06] <BUGabundo> right
[23:13] <asac> mbana: try
[23:13] <asac> pango-view -t "is the process of committing " --backend=xft --font="Sans 10"
[23:13] <asac> pango-view -t "is the process of committing " --backend=cairo --font="Sans 10"
[23:13] <asac> mbana: is that exactly like "3.5 vs. 3.0" (in that order)
[23:14] <asac> thats the text from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorization
[23:14] <asac> wiki page ;)
[23:16] <mbana> i think the cairo one is ebtter
[23:16] <mbana> u want a screen
[23:16] <asac> thats not what i asked
[23:16] <asac> no
[23:16] <asac> 00:13 < asac> mbana: is that exactly like "3.5 vs. 3.0" (in that order)
[23:16] <BUGabundo> asac: asac asac I need 3G back!!!
[23:16] <asac> ?
[23:16] <asac> BUGabundo: doesnt the modemmanager stuff work?
[23:16] <mbana> ok then it seems like it
[23:17] <asac> seems or _is_
[23:17] <asac> thats important
[23:17] <BUGabundo> asac: no idea! it doesn't show modem in there
[23:17] <asac> my eyes are bad and i dont see any font specifics ;)
[23:17] <BUGabundo> $ apt-cache policy modemmanager   Installed: 0.2.git5.ef0a604dc-0ubuntu1~mm1
[23:17] <asac> BUGabundo: is modem-manager running?
[23:17] <mbana> yes it is dude
[23:17] <BUGabundo> $ apt-cache policy network-manager  Installed: 0.8~a~git.20090702t164632.9c8e600-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[23:18] <asac> mbana: good ... also add that to the bug ;)
[23:18] <BUGabundo> asac: how do I check?
[23:18] <asac> so i think have to check why its xft now ;)
[23:18] <asac> or rather, why xft doesnt do full hinting
[23:18] <asac> seems like its the same as slight?
[23:18] <asac> BUGabundo: ps -eaf | grep modem
[23:19] <BUGabundo> asac: root      3342     1  0 20:39 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/modem-manager
[23:20] <asac> BUGabundo: stop NetworkManager, then sudo killall modem-manager
[23:20] <asac> then start it on command line like:
[23:20] <asac> sudo modem-manager --debug
[23:20] <asac> what does it print
[23:20] <asac> ?
[23:20] <BUGabundo> humm ok
[23:20] <BUGabundo> that will kill my wifi
[23:20] <BUGabundo> so hang on while I reconnect
[23:21] <asac> BUGabundo: did you restart your X session?
[23:21] <BUGabundo> I rebootede!
[23:21] <asac> ah ok
[23:21] <asac> and you have 0.8~a for nm and nm-applet?
[23:21] <asac> then run mm as i said above
[23:22] <BUGabundo> asac: what's the package fot the applet ?
[23:22] <asac> network-manager-gnome
[23:23] <BUGabundo> asac:   Installed: 0.8~a~git.20090701t182005.3bec17d-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[23:23] <asac> k
[23:23] <BUGabundo> gonna test debug
[23:23] <BUGabundo> brb
[23:23] <asac> <wa
[23:23] <BUGabundo> wait?
[23:23] <asac> BUGabundo: also:; what modem are you having?
[23:23] <BUGabundo> huawei E220
[23:24] <asac> ok
[23:24] <asac> in general that should work i think ;)
[23:24] <asac> so start it with --debug
[23:24] <asac> you might need a hal-info entry
[23:24] <BUGabundo> again?
[23:24] <asac> did your modem work before we switched to udev?
[23:24] <BUGabundo> worked up until I installed 0.8
[23:24] <asac> BUGabundo: no ... for now just get the --debug
[23:24] <BUGabundo> every day for every karmic cycle
[23:25] <BUGabundo> ok
[23:25] <BUGabundo>  /etc/init.d/NM stop
[23:30] <micahg> asac: Is security ppa missing ff branding?
[23:30] <BUGabundo> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/209348/
[23:30] <BUGabundo> asac: debug doesn't help much
[23:30] <BUGabundo> it detects it but I still can't connect to it
[23:31] <asac> micahg: intentionally yes
[23:32] <asac> BUGabundo: if you connect the --debug should hav espit out quite a lot
[23:32] <micahg> ok, what do I tell people, wait for Jaunty release for branding?
[23:32] <BUGabundo> asac: that's all I have
[23:32] <asac> BUGabundo: do you see your modem in the applet?
[23:32] <BUGabundo> no
[23:32] <BUGabundo> with or without NM running
[23:33] <asac> micahg: in jaunty 3.5 will stay unbranded we we only ship one branded firefox for every release
[23:33] <asac> users should consider firefox-3.5 a preview service
[23:33] <micahg> asac: that seems a little weird
[23:33] <asac> no
[23:33] <asac> why ;)
[23:33] <asac> one principal of stable updates is to not change the UI
[23:33] <asac> changing branding is a big UI change
[23:33] <micahg> If it's a legitimate release, then it shoudl be branded, it'll screw up with user agents and such
[23:34] <asac> yes. firefox 3.5 in karmic will be an official build with branding. but not in jaunty
[23:34] <BUGabundo> asac: still 3.5 is A LOT of Feature changes too
[23:34] <asac> jaunty is a preview package and its not stabilitized, didnt undergo trademark and patch review etc.
[23:35] <asac> BUGabundo: it has. but we had firefox-3.5 in jaunty
[23:35] <micahg> asac: ah, that's a different story
[23:35] <asac> just in universe
[23:35] <micahg> ah, so we only brand the pacakges in main?
[23:35] <BUGabundo> asac: HHHAAAA
[23:35] <asac> micahg: but its not only the trademark. its really that changing branding in a security/stable update is not the way to go ... we released teh firefox-3.5 with shiretoko branding in jaunty; so it should stay shiretoke all release
[23:36] <asac> micahg: we only brand packages in main yes.
[23:36] <micahg> ok, but that'll cause problems for sites that try to dynamically provide HTML5 based on user agent
[23:36] <asac> micahg: but we also dont change branding post release
[23:36] <micahg> should I suggest people install the karmic version?
[23:36] <asac> micahg: it has the right gecko version i
[23:36] <asac> n
[23:36] <BUGabundo> micahg: ok ok you have yiour anwser
[23:37] <micahg> or just install useragentswitcher?
[23:37] <asac> micahg: also its done in js anyway
[23:37] <BUGabundo> now let me own asac for a few minutes
[23:37] <asac> user agents are not ment to be used for that
[23:37] <asac> we try to stop sites doing that
[23:37] <asac> BUGabundo: so nothing in applet?
[23:37] <BUGabundo> nope asac
[23:37] <asac> BUGabundo: and in syslog?
[23:37] <micahg> asac: Yes, ideally everything should be standards based, but that's hard
[23:37] <micahg> ok
[23:37] <asac> micahg: yes. but we dont run after the web
[23:38] <asac> micahg: most sites will work
[23:38] <micahg> so, I'll tell people it can;t be branded
[23:38] <micahg> and mark won't fix?
[23:38] <asac> and the sites that dont work usually also dont work if you have the right string
[23:38] <asac> because the see "linux" and say: "unsupported OS"
[23:38] <asac> micahg: tell them it will not be branded.
[23:38] <micahg> ok
[23:38] <asac> micahg: dont explain the trademark story etc.
[23:38] <asac> that doesnt matter. changing branding is just not allowed in stable update. thats it
[23:39] <micahg> ok
[23:39] <micahg> will do asac, thanks
[23:39] <asac> people go nuts if you give them too many things. they start to argue about specific points etc.
[23:39] <asac> its not worth it
[23:39] <asac> and whatever you do, the people complaining will always be loud and unhappy
[23:39] <fta> X crashed during apt-get upgrade :(
[23:39] <asac> the happy folks you dont hear about ;)
[23:40] <asac> thats how it is ;)
[23:40] <fta> 2nd time in 2 days
[23:40] <asac> BUGabundo: do you have a syslog?
[23:40] <asac> like a complete thing ;)?
[23:41] <BUGabundo> asac: trying to pastebin
[23:41] <BUGabundo> darn wifi :((
[23:41] <asac> k
[23:41] <asac> fta: chipset?
[23:41] <asac> fta: on .31?
[23:41] <fta> nvidia
[23:41] <asac> you are lucky that X works at all
[23:41] <fta> yes
[23:41] <asac> my ati freezes when X is started
[23:41] <asac> intel works
[23:41] <asac> ati only with .30
[23:42] <asac> BUGabundo: i need the full syslog as usualy ;)
[23:44] <fta> crash in evdev_drv
[23:44] <fta> doesn't seem to be HW related
[23:50] <asac> BUGabundo: ok i follow and upgrade to your mm trunk thing ;)
[23:51] <BUGabundo> ah
[23:51] <BUGabundo> ?
[23:52] <asac> bad time for 3g
[23:52] <asac> NM ppa broken
[23:52] <asac> trunk ppa broken
[23:52] <asac> mm ppa works?
[23:52] <asac> or didnt that work for you?
[23:53] <asac> slow archive mirrors
[23:53] <asac> me takes a break
[23:53] <asac> its really high humidity
[23:57] <BUGabundo> ahah
[23:57] <BUGabundo> humm asac I was using MM ppa
[23:57] <BUGabundo> and working
[23:57] <BUGabundo> with NM from archive