[01:00] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[01:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cprofitt.
[01:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[01:00] <cprofitt> Hello all welcome to the Ubuntu Community Learning Project Meeting
[01:02] <popey> hey
[01:02] <cprofitt> hey popey
[01:02] <cprofitt> he doctormo
[01:02] <doctormo> hello
[01:02] <cprofitt> pleia2, are you here?
[01:02] <cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, Vantrax
[01:04] <Vantrax|Work> i is kinda here
[01:04] <cprofitt> We have no official agenda -- and it appears as though many are not here.
[01:04] <Vantrax|Work> yeah
[01:04] <cprofitt> Would anyone like to motion to close the meeting and we can wait until next week
[01:04] <Vantrax|Work> i guess i can update everyone on the theme
[01:04] <cprofitt> that would work too...
[01:04] <Vantrax|Work> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/theme/preview.php?preview=learn_ubuntu
[01:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/theme/preview.php?preview=learn_ubuntu
[01:05] <Vantrax|Work> its almost there
[01:05] <cprofitt> or we can wait until next week... your choice
[01:05] <Vantrax|Work> the menus have to be manually coded after we work out what menu's we want
[01:05] <Vantrax|Work> those are just the ones that were already there
[01:05] <cprofitt> it looks like grey stripes?
[01:07] <Vantrax|Work> oro??
[01:08] <Vantrax|Work> have you logged in before trying the link?
[01:08] <cprofitt> no
[01:08] <Vantrax|Work> you have to log into http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
[01:08] <Vantrax|Work> then use the link or go admin theme, theme selector, preview
[01:08] <cprofitt> I am not sure I have a login to this new site...
[01:08] <Vantrax|Work> one min
[01:08] <popey> ditto
[01:09] <Vantrax|Work> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
[01:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
[01:09] <Vantrax|Work> there you go
[01:09] <Vantrax|Work> ive updated it to show on login for the moment
[01:09] <Vantrax|Work> it still needs work, but its getting closer
[01:10] <Vantrax|Work> er on the main page
[01:10] <popey> seems a bit broken in firefox
[01:10] <popey> calendar is way off screen
[01:10] <cprofitt> nice overall Vantrax the blue underline on the mouse over is not the best...
[01:11] <Vantrax|Work> as i said, im still debugging
[01:11] <Vantrax|Work> moodle themes are very hard to debug >.<
[01:11] <cprofitt> popey, wow... I did not even see the calendar... good catch
[01:11] <Vantrax|Work> it will take some time to get it right
[01:11] <cprofitt> Vantrax, why is there a link to OWA
[01:11] <cprofitt> for Newberry college?
[01:11] <Vantrax|Work> unfortunately we dont have anyone that knows how to do this
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> cprofitt: the theme came from them
[01:12] <cprofitt> got it...
[01:12] <cprofitt> so we have to rip and replace.
[01:12] <cprofitt> what is it in... PHP?
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> im still updating it, just put it there so you guys could see what is going on
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> php, html, css
[01:12] <cprofitt> I like the colors ...
[01:12] <cprofitt> and the branding doctormo did is nice
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> yeah, it works well
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> it will look great soon
[01:12] <Vantrax|Work> the funny thing is it looks alot better in the preview mode >.<
[01:12] <cprofitt> obviously we will have to rework some stuff...
[01:12] <doctormo> :-D thanks
[01:13] <Vantrax|Work> by we you mean me >.<
[01:13] <cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, if you can send me an admin password I can try to poke around at it...
[01:13] <Vantrax|Work> sure
[01:13] <popey> looks good
[01:13] <Vantrax|Work> it will
[01:14] <doctormo> I get the feeling I want to have my hand in the fixing and further design for this too
[01:14] <Vantrax|Work> feel free doctormo
[01:15] <Vantrax|Work> im happy to have you take over:P
[01:15] <Vantrax|Work> gives me headaches
[01:15] <doctormo> heh
[01:15] <doctormo> considering my css, svg, design background I might be able to do it quickly. But I need a hand with the php
[01:17] <cprofitt> Vantrax|Work, can the theme be modified via the web or do you need ssh access?
[01:17] <Vantrax|Work> sure, im reasonably good at php hacking from doing joomla themes
[01:17] <Vantrax|Work> ssh access
[01:17] <cprofitt> k
[01:17] <Vantrax|Work> i do an scp copy then change the permissions
[01:18] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: is all the files were modifing on our launchpad project page yet?
[01:18] <Vantrax|Work> no, they are living in my ubuntuone folder shared out
[01:18] <Vantrax|Work> they can be added to LP if you want
[01:18] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: I'll need code commited to bzr and ssh access, that'll give me everythign I need to get going.
[01:18] <doctormo> Do you want me to organise lp?
[01:18] <Vantrax|Work> sure
[01:19] <Vantrax|Work> i dont know LP that well, and dont know bzr at all
[01:20] <cprofitt> Well.. the work looks good so far Vantrax|Work
[01:20] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: something that this should hope to introduce is the workflow for this kind of collab
[01:20] <cprofitt> and I like the way it is working with doctormo's artwork
[01:20] <doctormo> OK cprofitt, you can add those as actions then
[01:21] <Vantrax|Work> doctormo: true, lets do that later outside ubuntu meeting
[01:21] <doctormo> doctormo to add Vantrax's code to launchpad project and Vantrax|Work to organise ssh access to website.
[01:21] <cprofitt> [ACTION]doctormo to get SSH access and code put in bzr, he will work with Vantrax to get this all setup
[01:21] <MootBot> ACTION received: doctormo to get SSH access and code put in bzr, he will work with Vantrax to get this all setup
[01:22] <cprofitt> are there any other topics... or should we motion to close the meeting until next week?
[01:22] <doctormo> cprofitt: No lets call this impromptu meeting to a close
[01:22] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[01:22] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:22.
[11:05] <TheMuso> Hey amachu.
[11:05] <amachu> Hi
[11:05] <amachu> TheMuso: Hi, got stuck up with a work and it caused a five minute delay..
[11:06] <TheMuso> Np, we don't have our candidate here yet anyway.
[11:06] <amachu> elky: persia: lifeless: Hi
[11:06] <elky> um... is it today?
[11:06] <TheMuso> Yes.
[11:06]  * elky looks at the calendar
[11:07] <elky> we might want to fix that before next week then :)
[11:07] <amachu> hey 07 th looked so long for me after the beginning of a month
[11:07] <amachu> and its next week :-)
[11:08] <elky> hehe
[11:08] <amachu> elky: you are right
[11:08] <amachu> :-)
[11:08] <elky> what did the wiki say, though?
[11:08] <amachu> elky: on 14th
[11:08] <amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[11:08] <amachu> TheMuso: on 14th
[11:09] <TheMuso> ah ok
[11:09] <elky> well, we are short of quorum anyway
[11:09] <TheMuso> I could have swarn it was this week, since its been 2 weeks.
[11:09]  * TheMuso usually goes by the 2 week rule.
[11:09] <elky> TheMuso, it has been, but i suspect it was not used in specifying the date
[11:09] <TheMuso> right
[11:10] <amachu> TheMuso: me too :-)
[11:10] <TheMuso> oh well so bye for now then. :)
[11:10] <amachu> bye bye
[11:10] <amachu> :-)
[11:10] <elky> cyas :)
[14:12] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:12] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:12. The chair is NCommander.
[14:12] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:12]  * NCommander coughs
[14:12] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[14:12] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:12.
[14:14] <mr_pouit> that was a fast meeting :}
[14:15] <artir> XD
[14:17] <NCommander> mr_pouit, its a matter of time, and the inconsistanty of it
[15:25] <kuerten> hello, i've read an email on the "osm-talk" mailinglist about the offline-openstreetmap-dvd for ngos
[15:25] <kuerten> anybody here who is active in this project?=
[16:00] <sommer> hey all
[16:00] <soren> o/
[16:00] <kirkland> howdy all
[16:00] <ivoks> hi
[16:00] <kirkland> so mathiaz is running a few minutes late
[16:00] <kirkland> he asked me to get started running the meeting today
[16:01] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:01] <kirkland> the agenda is ^
[16:01] <soren> kirkland: Do the #startmeeting thing.
[16:01] <kirkland> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is kirkland.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <soren> Or did you want to leave that to mathiaz?
[16:02] <kirkland> soren: i don't really know the mootbot commands
[16:02] <ajmitch> morning
[16:02] <soren> kirkland: Noone does. Just pretend.
[16:02] <kirkland> [TOPIC] agenda
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[16:02] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[16:03]  * kirkland looks for action items
[16:03] <kirkland> ACTION: jmdault to start packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms
[16:04] <kirkland> jmdault: how's that coming?
[16:04] <kirkland> jmd<tab><tab> -> nothing
[16:04] <kirkland> anyone else workingo n packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms?
[16:05] <kirkland> ACTION: nijaba to add rules detailing what makes a relevant tip and what’s not
[16:05] <kirkland> looks like there has been some good discussion on the tips on the ubuntu-server@ list
[16:05] <kirkland> nijaba is at a conference today, and won't be here in attendance
[16:06] <kirkland> if you have ideas for tips, please get them to nijaba
[16:06] <kirkland> i think the current rules are "2 lines less than 80 characters"
[16:06] <kirkland> these would be randomly, optionally appended to the motd using update-motd
[16:06] <ajmitch> was it agreed whether it just be about packages in main?
[16:07] <kirkland> ajmitch: let me review the thread
[16:07] <zul> morning
[16:08] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
[16:08] <kirkland> ajmitch: looks like exceptions can be made at the discretion of this team meeting
[16:09] <kirkland> ajmitch: ie, if there's something about universe (or some group of universe tips), those should be brought to this meeting or the mailing list
[16:09] <ajmitch> ok
[16:10] <kirkland> ACTION: ttx to add Roadmap Review to next meeting agenda
[16:10] <kirkland> ttx is on vacation at the moment, and isn't around to discuss this with us
[16:10] <kirkland> that's the end of last week's items
[16:10] <kirkland> did anyone else have any followups from last week's discussion?
[16:11] <kirkland> [TOPIC] RoadMap
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  RoadMap
[16:11] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:11] <kirkland> there's a few easy merges still out there
[16:12] <kirkland> anyone here hoping to become a MOTU this year?
[16:12] <zul> oooh...me
[16:12] <zul> oh wait..
[16:12] <ivoks> -> RoAkSoAx
[16:12]  * kirkland smacks zul :-)
[16:12] <ajmitch> zul: you don't qualify
[16:12] <RoAkSoAx> I am :)
[16:12]  * RoAkSoAx hoping to become MOTU this year 
[16:13]  * sommer has thought about it, but gets distracted :)
[16:13] <kirkland> merges are one of the best ways to really pump up your visibility
[16:13] <ajmitch> asterisk doesn't count as an easy merge anymore, I think heimdal was done at some point recently?
[16:13] <kirkland> Karmic's merge window is rapidly closing
[16:13] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:13] <kirkland> we've already hit debian import freeze
[16:14] <kirkland> merges will be pretty much done by Feature Freeze (August 27)
[16:14] <kirkland> as for Testing ....
[16:14] <kirkland> anyone here running Karmic?
[16:14] <kirkland> real hardware or vm's?
[16:14] <ivoks> i am, vm
[16:14] <RoAkSoAx> vm here too
[16:15] <ajmitch> I am, real hardware
[16:15] <kirkland> ivoks: RoAkSoAx: ajmitch: reporting bugs?
[16:15] <ivoks> probably we are all :)
[16:15] <kirkland> there's plenty out there :-)
[16:15] <kirkland> ivoks: i have it on my Thinkpad x61 ;-)
[16:15] <ajmitch> kirkland: of course
[16:15] <kirkland> cool, great, keep up the good work
[16:15] <ivoks> i'm not reporting; i'm fixing them :)
[16:16] <RoAkSoAx> I'm testing HA packages :)
[16:16]  * kirkland high-fives ivoks 
[16:16] <kirkland> that's all for the agenda
[16:16] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
[16:17] <kirkland> ivoks: what did you fix last week?
[16:17] <ivoks> drbd
[16:17] <ivoks> still not uploaded into karmic, but it's on ppa
[16:17] <kirkland> ivoks: for the record, one liner about drbd, please
[16:17] <ivoks> and lots of pacemaker* openais* corosync* stuff
[16:17] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: what about you?
[16:18] <ivoks> drbd; debian is interested in dkms (http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-ha-maintainers/2009-July/000126.html); we have a dkms enabled package in PPA
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland, Fixed Heartbeat and now it is working, and I'm doing further testing
[16:18] <ivoks> and i'll probably upload it by the end of the week
[16:18] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: nice
[16:18] <kirkland> ivoks: very good
[16:18] <kirkland> ajmitch: ?
[16:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: I've played with puppet and started to work on directory integration
[16:19] <ajmitch> looking at PHP 5.3 & starting to help out the debian team with various bits & pieces
[16:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: looks good so far :)
[16:19] <kirkland> mathiaz: cool, that sounds great
[16:19] <kirkland> ajmitch: PHP is always a big merge
[16:19] <kirkland> soren: zul: ?
[16:20] <ajmitch> kirkland: I know, I'm trying to reduce that :)
[16:20] <kirkland> ajmitch: that would be a huge help
[16:20] <zul> kirkland: i triaged alot of bugs amongst other things
[16:20] <kirkland> zul: nice, wanna help triage some KVM bugs?  :-)
[16:21] <zul> kirkland: if i had time ;)
[16:21] <soren> kirkland: Sorry, what?
[16:21] <kirkland> anyone else out there actively following this meeting that wants to mention something cool they worked on last week?
[16:21] <kirkland> soren: one cool Ubuntu-Server thing you did last week.
[16:21] <ivoks> napravi jos jednoga
[16:21] <soren> kirkland: Eucalyptus. A lot.
[16:21] <ivoks> ups... :)
[16:22] <kirkland> soren: nice
[16:22] <soren> THat sums up last week pretty well, actually :)
[16:22] <kirkland> so soren and I sprinted with the Eucalyptus folks last week
[16:22] <kirkland> i worked on two new tools for the Ubuntu server, powernap and powerwake
[16:22] <kirkland> i should be blogging an announcement about that this week
[16:23] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i gather you're back now?\
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we've covered the agenda
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: great
[16:23] <zul> so I have something
[16:23] <kirkland> zul: hit me
[16:24] <zul> so ajmitch and a bunch of users have been asking for php 5.3 in karmic ajmitch has more information about what needs to be done so Ill let him take it from here
[16:24] <ajmitch> right
[16:25] <ajmitch> as you probably saw, it's been uploaded to debian experimental for some testing
[16:25] <ajmitch> 5.3 introduces a few big changes, and probably some bugs, such as the suhosin patch not updated for 5.3 yet
[16:26] <ajmitch> currently we're down to just 1 patch difference from debian, aside from the changes to debian/{rules,control}, but it's undecided whether we should stick with 5.2.10 in karmic, or go with 5.3
[16:27] <ajmitch> anyone have any preferences on that? :)
[16:28] <kirkland> ajmitch: is 5.3 GA upstream at php.net?
[16:28] <ivoks> i always considered non-LTS releases as a playground for testing new stuff, so i'd support going for 5.3
[16:28] <mathiaz> ajmitch: why should we move to 5.3?
[16:28] <kirkland> ajmitch: or is it a beta/dev release?
[16:28] <zul> i dont have a problem with it the only thing is the suhosin patch is not applied
[16:28] <zul> yet
[16:29] <ajmitch> it's now a stable release on php.net
[16:29] <mathiaz> zul: what would be the timeframe to get the suhosin patch updated to 5.3?
[16:29] <ajmitch> mathiaz: because of the number of new features that have been added that people are already asking for
[16:29] <kirkland> ajmitch: okay, that's a good thing;  as mathiaz said, what's the motivation for 5.3?
[16:29] <zul> mathiaz: dunno
[16:29] <mathiaz> is it fair to say that shipping without suhosin would be a feature regression?
[16:30] <ajmitch> apart from the super-awesome ones like goto, it adds namespaces, closures, late static bindings, plus a few pecl extensions moved into the core
[16:30] <zul> mathiaz: yes imho
[16:30] <mathiaz> ajmitch: ok - so code that would run on jaunty would not work on karmic if we move to 5.3?
[16:30] <ajmitch> iirc we enable the core part of suhosin & have the rest available as an extension at the moment
[16:31] <ajmitch> mathiaz: it ought to work on karmic, they've deprecated but not removed things in 5.3
[16:31] <mathiaz> ajmitch: ok. I'm unfamiliar with the suhosin patch
[16:31] <ajmitch> I haven't seen what's needed to be changed for the suhosin patch, it's not a small patch
[16:32] <mathiaz> ajmitch: thus my naive questions - does the suhosin patch introduce new construct?
[16:32] <mathiaz> ajmitch: or is it just performance improvements?
[16:32] <ajmitch> suhosin patch is for security & restricts PHP some more, catches some bugs
[16:32] <ajmitch> I haven't seen a mention on the debian list of when it may be added back in
[16:33] <mathiaz> ajmitch: would some scripts break if the suhosin patch is not applied?
[16:33] <ajmitch> No, they shouldn't
[16:33] <mathiaz> jdstrand: mdeslaur: what's your opinion on shipping php without the suhosin patch?
[16:34] <ajmitch> I believe that the patch would likely be enabled again in debian by feature freeze, though couldn't guarantee that
[16:35] <mathiaz> ajmitch: hm ok.
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: i wonder if a php ppa might be the best place for it until that point?
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: for instance, i'm providing daily upstream builds of qemu, qemu-kvm, and libvirt for testing
[16:35] <ajmitch> kirkland: sounds logical
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: i'm using those to refine the packaging, and do some testing
[16:36] <mathiaz> right - that seems like a reasonable plan to my - 5.3 in a PPA
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: without forcing that on someone
[16:36] <jdstrand> it would be disappointing to see it go
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: my goal being to migrate from there into karmic as soon as its ready
[16:36] <mathiaz> until the suhosin patch is reenabled in which case it can be pushed to karmic
[16:36] <ajmitch> I was going to throw it in my PPA first, as I said, it's still in experimental
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: right
[16:37] <mathiaz> so the plan would be to wait for the suhosin patch to be renenabled and if done so before FF push 5.3 in karmic?
[16:37] <ajmitch> ok
[16:38] <mathiaz> is there an ubuntu-php-team ?
[16:39] <ajmitch> not that I saw, which is why i'm trying to start doing stuff in the debian team instead
[16:39] <mathiaz> ajmitch: right - that's a great way to collaborate
[16:39] <mathiaz> I was also thinking about setting up a team PPA
[16:40] <ajmitch> I know at least one of the debian maintainers is active on launchpad in looking at PHP bugs
[16:40] <ivoks> would it be possible to provide packages for older ubuntu releases?
[16:40] <mathiaz> to push the 5.3 package in the team PPA and ask people to test it there
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: with a PPA - sure
[16:40] <ivoks> of course, with a ppa
[16:40] <ajmitch> ivoks: it should be, though some other things may need to be backported
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: or using -backports
[16:40] <mdeslaur> I wouldn't want to shit php without the suhosin patch...
[16:40] <mdeslaur> s/shit/ship/
[16:40] <jdstrand> mathiaz: re feature regression> http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/a_feature_list.html lists the stuff that would be lost in dropping the patch
[16:41] <mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: great. thanks for your input.
[16:41] <mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: the plan is to wait for the suhosin patch to be ported to 5.3 before uploading to karmic
[16:42] <mdeslaur> whoa...freudian slip on my part there
[16:42] <ajmitch> mdeslaur: understandable ;)
[16:43] <ajmitch> right, I'll look at getting an ubuntu team setup for the PPA
[16:43] <mathiaz> ajmitch: awesome - thanks:)
[16:43] <ivoks> that would be great, indeed
[16:44] <mathiaz> and then announce it on the planet
[16:44] <mathiaz> IIRC it worked well for the ubuntu-ha team
[16:44] <mathiaz> ivoks: ^^??
[16:44] <ajmitch> that'd require me to actually setup a blog, what a shocking thought
[16:45] <ivoks> yeah... we had more members of ubuntu-ha than i hoped for
[16:45] <ivoks> ajmitch: abuse ubuntu-server blog :D
[16:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: and you're using multiple PPAs to handle package?
[16:45] <ivoks> yes
[16:45] <ivoks> one for stable drbd for all ubuntu versions
[16:45] <ivoks> and one development ppa for all other stuff
[16:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: awesome! may be the ubuntu-php team could be modeled after that in the medium-term
[16:46] <ivoks> sure
[16:47] <ivoks> i'm just not aware how to create access restrictions to ppas
[16:47] <ivoks> and who was right to upload to ppa anyway? all members of the team or just administrators?
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - that's a good questions
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know the answer yet.
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: I think it would be great to use a LP mailing list to gather users and anounce new package upload to be tested
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: but still restrict who can upload to the PPAs.
[16:48] <ivoks> we annonunced it on ubuntu-ha ml
[16:49] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - and who can subscribe to the ubuntu-ha ml?
[16:49] <ivoks> members of ubuntu-ha
[16:49] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - who could also upload to the ubuntu-ha PPAs?
[16:50] <RoAkSoAx> I think only administrators can upload to PPA
[16:50] <ivoks> that's what i don't know... i hope that not all members are able to upload to ppa
[16:50] <ivoks> i really hope only admins can do that :)
[16:50] <ajmitch> I think all members, from what I recall?
[16:50] <ajmitch> #launchpad would know
[16:50] <mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know either - #launchpad is the best place to ask
[16:50] <ivoks> right
[16:50] <dholbach> RoAkSoAx: I think all members
[16:51] <ivoks> that could be an issue :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> dholbach: do you have examples of other teams that handle that correctly?
[16:51] <RoAkSoAx> gonna ask on #launchpad
[16:52] <dholbach> mathiaz: correctly? just create a team that has just uploaders in it, create a PPA for them and you're done :)
[16:52] <mathiaz> dholbach: right - that's what I though
[16:52] <mathiaz> create an ubuntu-{ha,php}-maintainers team
[16:52] <mathiaz> and an ubuntu-{ha,php} team
[16:53] <mathiaz> the former with PPAs, the latter with mailing lists.
[16:53] <ivoks> we should really fix the design then
[16:53] <ivoks> ACL's on PPA
[16:54] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[16:54] <RoAkSoAx> gonna create the ubuntu-ha-maintainers team then
[16:54] <kirkland> okay, guys, are we wrapping this up?
[16:54]  * nealmcb1 returns from a two-week vacation in the wilds of Utah and Colorado and slowly gets back in the routine....
[16:55] <ajmitch> kirkland: I hope so, it's nearly 4AM :)
[16:55] <kirkland> i think we have a consensus, php in a ppa, get suhosin, then merge 5.3 into karmic
[16:55] <kirkland> ajmitch: heh
[16:55] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
[16:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
[16:55] <kirkland> same time/place?
[16:55] <ivoks> yep, 3AM ajmitch time
[16:56] <ajmitch> different time would be lovely, but I'm probably one of the few in this area of the world
[16:56] <ajmitch> it's been discussed before & too few people would be around at other times, I think?
[16:56] <mathiaz> ajmitch: yeah - :/
[16:56] <RoAkSoAx> it's 11 am here and it's still early for me :) xD
[16:56] <ivoks> how about moving it +2?
[16:56] <ajmitch> no big problem either way, I don't want to disrupt it for people
[16:57] <mathiaz> ivoks: that would not fit well with europeans - they eat at this time
[16:57] <ivoks> i'm european :)
[16:57] <ivoks> who eats at 7PM?
[16:57] <ivoks> that's not healty :)
[16:57] <mathiaz> ivoks: soren and ttx apparently
[16:57]  * ajmitch would go with same time/place next week
[16:59] <ivoks> ok
[16:59] <ivoks> -#endmeeting
[16:59] <kirkland> #endmeeting
[16:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
[17:00] <andresmujica> hi
[17:00] <bdmurray> hello
[17:01]  * charlie-tca__ waves
[17:01] <andresmujica> hi charlie, bdmurray!
[17:02] <andresmujica> i had to travel and couldn't prepare the proper minutes for last meeting, however i've just pasted the log at the wiki
[17:02] <andresmujica> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2009-06-09
[17:05] <bdmurray> thanks for doing that!
[17:05] <andresmujica> the main topics discussed last time were UDS related topics ( process for new bugsquad members, mentorship, kernel bug handling, ubuntu-bug usage, symptom bug based reporting) and the LP improvements
[17:05] <mrooney> good morning bugsquad :)
[17:06]  * andresmujica waves mrooney
[17:07] <hggdh> so, did we start already?
[17:07] <andresmujica> just waiting for quorum:
[17:08] <andresmujica> let's start then
[17:08] <andresmujica> #startmeeting
[17:08] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:08. The chair is andresmujica.
[17:08] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:08] <andresmujica> we stil have some topics here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
[17:09] <andresmujica> [TOPIC] LoCo Bug Jams -- bcurtiswx
[17:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo Bug Jams -- bcurtiswx
[17:10] <hggdh> hum. bcurtiswx is MIA...
[17:10] <andresmujica> there's the Ubuntu Global Jam now.. so i'm supposing we would particpate there...
[17:11] <hggdh> yes indeed.
[17:11] <hggdh> For those of us living in a LoCo area, we should try to be present
[17:11] <andresmujica> should we make some previous irc classrooms for that??
[17:12] <hggdh> bdmurray, ^^?
[17:12] <bdmurray> I'm not sure I understand the question
[17:13] <hggdh> I guess is should we try to schedule a classroom for triaging before the GBJ?
[17:13] <andresmujica> i mean, maybe we can give a classroom session of bug triaging in order to help newcomers with the event..
[17:13] <bdmurray> Yes, that sounds like a great idea
[17:14] <andresmujica> anyone wants to volunteer?
[17:15] <hggdh> I can help, but I am not sure I will have the time to do it alone
[17:15] <hggdh> (not right now)
[17:15] <andresmujica> hmm how much time is left before the UGJ?
[17:16] <charlie-tca__> I can't really do it at this time
[17:16] <andresmujica> hmm 2th -4th October...
[17:17] <andresmujica> we've got some time.. so we can wait.. maybe in August / September we can do something about it... don't you think?
[17:17] <hggdh> October... so we could try to get it done in September (to be near, and get the new triagers still fresh on memory)
[17:17] <hggdh> heh
[17:18] <andresmujica> yeap!
[17:18] <andresmujica> ok..
[17:18] <andresmujica> i'll try to make one in spanish..
[17:18] <andresmujica> ok. so let's check the other topic.
[17:19] <andresmujica> [TOPIC] BugSquad new members orientation -- tlcoffee
[17:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  BugSquad new members orientation -- tlcoffee
[17:20] <hggdh> another one MIA...
[17:20] <andresmujica> i don't think tlcoffe is around here.. however this is like the mentorship program for new bugsquad members..
[17:20] <hggdh> I have been doing something like that, in an un-official way, for quite some time
[17:21] <hggdh> I think some new triagers get, er, shy on asking questions in the open, and would rather use PVT
[17:21] <andresmujica> :)
[17:22] <hggdh> My view is we should try, whenever possible, to have the doubts answered in the open, but we should make clear we do accept PVT questions
[17:22] <mrooney> is this related at all to bugcontrol specialization, where a new bugsquad member might be interested in something specific and we want to hook them up with the right mentor?
[17:23] <hggdh> mrooney, it may well be.
[17:23] <bdmurray> pedro is looking at setting up a mentoring program
[17:23] <bdmurray> I believe that the two are related yes
[17:24] <hggdh> hum. Since pedro is out right now, I propose we ask him for an update later
[17:24] <andresmujica> ok we'll wait for news about it.. i believe is really important
[17:25] <hggdh> I agree. I remember, when I started, I was stepping on eggs
[17:25] <andresmujica> ok.
[17:26] <mrooney> sorry, gdm likes to randomly restart in karmic :)
[17:26] <andresmujica> the next topic we've got is
[17:26] <andresmujica> [TOPIC] Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic -- Andrew Starr
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic -- Andrew Starr
[17:26] <hggdh> and I had a real bad experience with a developer
[17:26] <andresmujica> mrooney: yeapp. i´m trying to debug that but is hard..
[17:27] <andresmujica> hggdh: sorry.. .. go on..
[17:27] <hggdh> Well. Andrew is also missing. May I propose that we ask not only for a topic, but also for a short explanation on what is intended?
[17:28] <bdmurray> that sounds fair to me
[17:28] <andresmujica> yeap.. that one i don't have a clue.. it can as long as we want to...
[17:28] <andresmujica> it can be.. sorry
[17:28] <hggdh> OK. Let's just pass it on, and update the wiki. I have no clue on what Andrew intended here
[17:29] <andresmujica> [TOPIC] Open Discussions
[17:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussions
[17:29] <hggdh> I have one
[17:29] <hggdh> bdmurray, sent out an email (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2009-July/001505.html) asking for help on apport hools
[17:29] <hggdh> hooks
[17:29] <hggdh> This is something that most of us would be able to do
[17:30] <hggdh> I would really like to see more apport hook coverage. I have started with an Evolution one, currently under review
[17:31] <hggdh> I also wrote some small hacks to work on existing apport bugs, with help from a list Brian provided me
[17:31] <hggdh> Anyone volunteers?
[17:31]  * mrooney looks
[17:32] <mrooney> I could try to help with a few, is the idea to talk to a dev and figure out what information is valuable?
[17:32] <mrooney> what is the process for figuring out what to include
[17:32] <bdmurray> or looking at upstream bugtrackers, existing bug reports
[17:32] <bdmurray> for the compiz one I wrote I looked at the DebuggingCompiz page
[17:32] <mrooney> I see, ok, makes sense
[17:33] <hggdh> for the record, the hacks and the proposed Evo hook is at bug 391623
[17:33] <bdmurray> I think sbeattie did the same thing for gnome-power-manager and a script included with that  package
[17:33] <mrooney> okay cool, I'll  set a goal for 1 a week
[17:34] <hggdh> one thing Brian and I were working on is on sanitising backtraces, but this depends on an enhancement on apport. This should be considered when applicable
[17:35] <sbeattie> mrooney: I looked at the debugging page for gnome-power-manager as well as the debian bug reporting script in /usr/share/bug/gnome-power-manager/script
[17:35] <bdmurray> One could also look in '/usr/share/bug/' for information to include for a specific package
[17:36] <hggdh> mrooney, also, the hook will have to be officially proposed, and will go through a review by the maintainers
[17:38] <mrooney> makes sense!
[17:38] <andresmujica> ok.
[17:38] <andresmujica> anything else we want to discuss?
[17:39] <mrooney> I had a quick one
[17:39] <mrooney> there was a bug filed for eeebotu in #ubuntu-bugs-announce that it shouldn't show Invalid bugs, I wondered what a consensus was on that
[17:39] <mrooney> it was discussed briefly in that channel
[17:39] <mrooney> I always thought seeing newly Invalidated bugs was interesting personally, sometimes people did it by mistake
[17:39] <hggdh> yes, Ampelbein filed it.
[17:40] <charlie-tca__> I find seeing them useful myself
[17:40] <bdmurray> I don't hang out in the channel much but agree
[17:40] <hggdh> but what a bout Triaged ones?
[17:40] <charlie-tca__> Triaged to Invalid?
[17:40] <mrooney> no I think hggdh meant newly filed bugs immediately set to triaged
[17:41] <hggdh> do triaged (but otherwise new) bugs appear on -announce?
[17:41] <mrooney> yeah they do
[17:41] <mrooney> the only stipulation is that they are newly filed
[17:41] <hggdh> should we keep them in the list?
[17:41] <mrooney> I could see that hiding Triaged bugs makes sense
[17:41] <hggdh> +1
[17:42] <bdmurray> I think those are more important for bug control to look at to ensure they are addressed
[17:42] <bdmurray> however maybe that should happen in a different channel
[17:42] <mrooney> yeah that should ideally be any bug set to triaged
[17:42] <mrooney> a newly filed bug that is triaged is probably done so by a developer as a workflow item
[17:42] <hggdh> hum. What about different channels with different bug status?
[17:42] <bdmurray> ah, yes
[17:43] <bdmurray> I think that would be really useful
[17:43] <mrooney> yeah that would be cool but is a larger topic, I wanted to make eeebotu look at all touched bugs and allow for that but never had the time
[17:43] <andresmujica> +1
[17:43] <bdmurray> at least for Confirmed, Triaged, High and Critical
[17:43] <hggdh> yes
[17:44] <mrooney> yeah that would be cool definiteily
[17:44] <hggdh> mrooney, let's work on it?
[17:44] <mrooney> I don't think it would be too much work, sounds good
[17:44] <mrooney> hggdh: I'll work with you on deploying a new eeebotu with the two bugs addressed as well as that
[17:44] <hggdh> mrooney, roger wilco
[17:45] <andresmujica> great!
[17:46] <andresmujica> so if there's nothing else...
[17:46] <bdmurray> Is anybody using the firefox extension?
[17:46] <hggdh> bdmurray, I am
[17:46] <micahg> the LP improvements?
[17:46] <bdmurray> Yeah
[17:47] <hggdh> but I cannot get the teams icons to show
[17:47]  * micahg is
[17:47] <andresmujica> which one.. ?  i've missed that one...
[17:47] <bdmurray> I was planning on making a larger announcement soon
[17:47] <bdmurray> hggdh: team icons were a launchpad bug, now its a script bug
[17:47] <bdmurray> but I plan on fixing that this week then announce if it is working well
[17:47] <hggdh> heh
[17:47] <hggdh> and update the package?
[17:47] <bdmurray> "it" being the extension as a whole
[17:47] <bdmurray> yes
[17:48] <hggdh> cool
[17:48] <hggdh> andresmujica, Brian package the LP greasemonkey scripts
[17:49] <andresmujica> i'm using the GM script..
[17:51] <hggdh> andresmujica, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2009-June/000488.html
[17:51] <bdmurray> I've made a firefox extension available as a ppa package that collects all of the greasemonkey scripts to allow for easier updates
[17:51] <andresmujica> cool... gonna test it..
[17:52] <andresmujica> ok,
[17:52] <mrooney> okay, I must head to work, I'll check the logs to read the rest, bye for now everyone :)
[17:52] <andresmujica> so the next meeting august 11th ?
[17:52] <hggdh> yes, me guesses
[17:52] <andresmujica> ok..
[17:53] <bdmurray> thanks andresmujica!
[17:53] <andresmujica> i'll update the wiki just after the meeting, if not it would be forgotten..
[17:53] <andresmujica> thanks to you!
[17:53] <hggdh> thank you for chairing, andresmujica
[17:53] <andresmujica> #endmeeting
[17:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:53.
[17:59] <bjf> roll call
[17:59]  * jjohansen here
[17:59]  * ogasawara_ waves
[17:59]  * manjo waves
[17:59]  * amitk waves
[17:59]  * smb warps in
[18:00]  * sconklin checks in
[18:00]  * cking too
[18:00] <lieb> yo
[18:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <bjf> this is going to be a bit longer than usual we've added a few things to the agenda
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git repository"
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "ogasawara to push the hsdb scripts to the buildscripts git repository"
[18:01] <ogasawara> I sent an email to the kernel team ml noting where the scripts can currently be found.  We're actually going to get them pushed to a central hwdb project repo in lp instead so others can easily contribute.
[18:01]  * pgraner is here
[18:02]  * apw zones in
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
[18:02] <bjf> Who wants to handle this? ogasawara?
[18:02]  * apw hadn't seen that one on the list.
[18:02] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <apw> i can talk to regression-potentials
[18:03]  * ball is with Ubuntu-Chicago <- for the record
[18:03] <ogasawara> release meeting bugs, rc milestoned bugs and release targeted bugs are listed at that link
[18:03] <apw> we have a number of regressions coming in on the 2.6.31-rc1 based kernels, but they look mostly to be being fixed by the latest kernels
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
[18:05] <ogasawara> Kernel Arsenal scripts for New, Incomplete, Confirmed, and Triaged bugs have already been written and merged into the arsenal-devel bzr tree.  I've started running these manually and hope to post some stats next week regarding the impact.
[18:05]  * apw has seen some bugs beiing progressed by them, so far so good
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
[18:05] <ogasawara> As noted earlier, the updated scripts will be pushed to a central repo and a README doc created.  Newly added features include being able to mine driver stats and retrieving a lists of bugs related to hw.  We're still working on getting apport to be able to link a bug to a hw profile when the bug is submitted.  Checkbox needs to store the hw profile submission key somwhere for apport to reference it.  See bug 379393 for
[18:05] <ogasawara> more info.  ETA for checkbox fix is karmic-alpha3.
[18:07] <bjf> anything on kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop?
[18:07] <ogasawara> bjf: that's it for now
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
[18:07] <apw> All new configuration options applied to the kernel.  Review of existing options ongoing.
[18:08] <apw> We need to check for common options insanly set, and likely that will be it.
[18:08] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
[18:08] <apw> KMS for Intel i915 enabled by default userspace drivers are KMS enabled, testing so far is good generally.  KMS for ATI Radeon is now in the kernel with 2.6.31-rc based kernels, userspace is not yet supporting it so it is disabled by default.  KMS for Nouveau is not likely to make the Karmic kernel, updated kernels in preparation to allow further testing.
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:09] <rtg> in progress
[18:10] <pgraner> rtg: how does it look initially?
[18:10] <rtg> ok for the server, there are some meta messes to cleanup
[18:10] <pgraner> rtg: interesting, I would have expected much more fallout
[18:10] <rtg> i've tabled work on it for the last week or so. i'll get back on it full time next werek
[18:11] <pgraner> rtg: ack
[18:11] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
[18:11] <smb> ongoing too
[18:11] <smb> dmraid and compcache were updated recently
[18:11] <apw> ndiswrapper was updated also
[18:11] <manjo> and sndbtsco was removed
[18:11] <smb> lenovo-sl is being looked after
[18:12] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
[18:12] <bjf> this one isn't getting as much love right now for 2 reasons:
[18:13] <bjf> 1. Bryan has been given a new priority to help me with Jaunty+imx51 patches for babbage 2
[18:13] <bjf> 2. He is sick right now so he's moving a little slowly
[18:13] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
[18:13] <rtg> moot point, isn't it?
[18:14] <rtg> its done
[18:14] <pgraner> did we complete all decisions, that is are they implemented or will be?
[18:14] <apw> basically this one is done, we have a strand on checking new options which should be covered by the config review
[18:15] <bjf> I'ts listed as "Started" on the status page
[18:15] <bjf> should it be removed from the agenda?
[18:15] <apw> yep, it was unclear if we could close it till the kernel was 2.6.31, as there is some stuff about configs
[18:15] <apw> i propose we move that to the configs review and close it
[18:15] <pgraner> bjf: yep, lets call it complete
[18:15] <pgraner> apw: can you update the status page to reflect?
[18:16] <apw> ack
[18:16] <bjf> [ACTION] (bjf) Remove kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session from agenda
[18:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (bjf) Remove kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session from agenda
[18:16] <bjf> [ACTION] (apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
[18:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session
[18:16] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
[18:17] <apw> that one as far as i know it is on hold
[18:17] <rtg> no progress, everyone is too busy with other things
[18:17] <apw> its not a release blocker
[18:17] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
[18:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
[18:17] <cking> there is nothing kernel related that can be worked on for now; it's all userspace installer related, e.g. SSD partition alignment needs tweaking in the installer - this probably needs cjwatson attention
[18:17] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
[18:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
[18:17] <manjo> updated the spec page with Implementation design details.
[18:18] <manjo> Posted a poll on ubuntuform & used micro-blogging  to get the word out on KMS on karmic & Jaunty. I got a few responds saying KMS works well for suspend/resume.
[18:18] <manjo> Spent some time looking at Jaunty suspend/resume bugs. Manual triage of these bugs not practical.
[18:18] <cjwatson> cking: this is the first I've heard of this spec - somebody should mail me or something with what we're supposed to do
[18:18] <pgraner> manjo: you want to do the Atlanta Linux Fest with some live sticks for testing?
[18:18] <cking> cjwatson: will do.
[18:18] <pgraner> cjwatson: Keybuck was in on it
[18:18] <cking> ah. my mistake
[18:18] <manjo> pgraner, sure I emailed you earliler last week
[18:18] <pgraner> cjwatson: we will get you updated tho
[18:18] <cjwatson> well, Keybuk doesn't typically hack on the installer
[18:18] <cjwatson> though obviously he's welcome to
[18:18] <pgraner> manjo: I know I'm just getting out in the open :-)
[18:19] <pgraner> cjwatson: he was the foundations rep in the meeting I was assuming he was taking that back to the team
[18:19] <cjwatson> Keybuk: ^-
[18:19] <cjwatson> anyway, I've heard of it now; with this notice I don't know what I can promise yet though
[18:19] <pgraner> cjwatson: ack
[18:19] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
[18:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
[18:20] <manjo> bjf, that is all about that blue print
[18:20] <bjf> wifi anyone?
[18:21] <rtg> apw updated it yesterday
[18:21] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
[18:21] <apw> i pushed in the discussion.  i don't think its really got going yet.  we need to review what we are planning there
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
[18:21] <amitk> NOP since turning on snd-hda-intel powersave. Also waiting for a somewhat stable kernel/configs to start measurements on.
[18:22] <amitk> i guess some measurements can be done now in tandem with suspend/resume measurements
[18:22] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
[18:22] <rtg> done
[18:22] <pgraner> bjf: done
[18:22] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
[18:22] <amitk> done
[18:22] <rtg> done
[18:22] <apw> Config system rebuilt to introduce a top level configuration file for completely common options.   Merging enhanced to allow merging of non-existent options producing much more common options.  Ports kernels split off into a separate hierarchy to simplify updates.
[18:22] <apw> This blueprint is complete.
[18:23] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
[18:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
[18:23] <jjohansen> in regression testing
[18:23] <jjohansen> its passing about 95% of the tests right now
[18:23] <pgraner> jjohansen: when can we expect to see it in a ubuntu kernel?
[18:24] <jjohansen> we can merge anytime
[18:24] <pgraner> jjohansen: might need to issue a pull request so apw can pick it up
[18:24] <jjohansen> okay
[18:24] <apw> jjohansen, yep when you are ready to have it in we can suck it up
[18:24] <apw> and then turn it on when you say 'go'
[18:24] <jjohansen> okay, I'll do a pull request today
[18:25] <bjf> [ACTION] jjohansen to issue AA pull request
[18:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to issue AA pull request
[18:25] <apw> assuming thats last thing i'll get with you in the morning to confirm configs etc for it
[18:25] <jjohansen> sounds good
[18:25] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
[18:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
[18:26] <bjf> I'm now working on getting Jaunty booting on B2 and that is going very well
[18:26] <bjf> I'm continuing to apply freescale patches, and have Jaunty booting on B2 now
[18:26] <amitk> I'm debugging the ARM boot code to see why the 2.6.31 kernel won't boot on the Babbage boards
[18:27] <amitk> There is a rather large delta/cleanup in the common arm arch code in .30 and .31 that needs to be reviewed
[18:27] <cking> amitk: any ideas why it's not working?
[18:28] <amitk> the machine ID issue turned out to be a red herring
[18:28] <amitk> I suspect some changes in MM/IO config code
[18:28] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
[18:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
[18:28] <apw> The ports architectures have been reintegrated.  All but sparc are now building.  We are expecting updates this week for sparc to fix this.
[18:28] <apw> This activity is now complete.
[18:29] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Grub2
[18:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Grub2
[18:30] <cking> Not aware of any show stopping issues.
[18:30] <apw> i think our involvement with grub is done?  it is now the default, testing has been majority positive
[18:30] <bjf> I can remove this from the agenda?
[18:30] <cking> reckon so.
[18:30] <apw> i believe so
[18:31] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Kernel Msg Clean up at boot
[18:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Kernel Msg Clean up at boot
[18:31] <rtg> no progress
[18:31] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
[18:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
[18:31] <apw> it should be a small job, so not concerned for
[18:31] <smb> Ok first the summary
[18:31] <smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, released)
[18:31] <smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, released)
[18:31] <smb>             2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[25] with 2/11 verifications GONE!!!
[18:31] <smb>             2.6.24-24.56 (proposed+security, upload pending)
[18:31] <smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, released)
[18:31] <smb>             2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[25] 3/24 verifications
[18:31] <smb>             2.6.27-14.36 (proposed+security, upload pending)
[18:31] <smb>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[25] with 1/2 verifications.
[18:31] <rtg> apw, besides, it didn't make much sense until 2.6.31 anyways
[18:31] <smb>             Need to run wl testing on Intrepid, too.
[18:31] <smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, released)
[18:31] <smb>             2.6.28-14.46 (proposed, upload pending)
[18:31] <smb>             LRM 2.6.28-14.18 (proposed, upload pending)
[18:31] <smb>             LBM 2.6.28-14.15 (proposed, upload pending)
[18:32] <smb>             LRM and LBM are rebuilds with bumped ABI
[18:32] <smb> Some detail to it
[18:32] <smb> The old Hardy proposed seems to be MIA, so it will need the security+proposed upload to get into live again
[18:32] <smb> The next Jaunty proposed scares the sru team as it contains the last upstram stable import
[18:33] <smb> I hope it gets accepted anyways
[18:33] <smb> At least it runs for me on desktop, laptop and netbook
[18:34] <smb> That's all so far
[18:34] <sbeattie> smb: is the new hardy-proposed kernel intended to make it into 8.04.3?
[18:34] <bjf> I'm gong to have a large wad of imx51 patches that will go into Jaunty SRU, smb and I have discussed this and they will go onto a topic branch
[18:34] <smb> sbeattie, It would be good if it did. Not sure about the timeings for that (8.04.3 still open?)
[18:35] <sbeattie> 8.04.3 is supposed to come out this week, but the daily isos were being generatd off of the old -proposed kernel.
[18:35] <apw> diary says thrusday for that
[18:35] <smb> apw, Last one
[18:35] <apw> slipped to 7/9
[18:36] <apw> sbeattie, is that -proposed at .54 or the -security kernel at .55
[18:36] <smb> sbeattie, So at least the new proposed should get into updates soon as the current security is based on the old updates kernel and the old proposed did not include security
[18:37] <smb> apw, yes the old proposed was .54
[18:37] <smb> security was .55 but based on .53
[18:37] <smb> The kernel now waiting for accept is .56 including both
[18:37] <sbeattie> smb: let's take it up with slangasek
[18:38] <smb> sbeattie, ping me too, to join you
[18:38] <bjf> are we done with this topic?
[18:38] <sbeattie> okay
[18:38] <smb> bjf, done
[18:38] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic
[18:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic
[18:38] <apw> The karmic kernel is now rebased to 2.6.31-rc2 (2.6.31-2.16).  This seems to resolve a number of serious issues from the previous 2.6.31-rc1 based kernels.
[18:39] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: ARM
[18:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM
[18:39] <bjf> already covered
[18:39] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook
[18:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook
[18:39] <sconklin> I have finished review of all the patches from the old netbook-lpia repo. A couple were upstreamed. The rest were backports or are obsolete. I am declaring that effort to be finished.
[18:40] <apw> we released a jaunty netbook kernel for testing by oem
[18:40] <sconklin> No new work on Jaunty by me
[18:40] <apw> be worth chasing them up to see how that kernels worked out
[18:40] <sconklin> I'd like to know that they've at least tried it
[18:41] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions
[18:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions
[18:41] <ogasawara> I added 4 regression-potential bugs and 1 regression-release bug to the list this week.  apw has already fixed one of the regression-potential bugs and he and smb are already assigned to the others.
[18:41] <ogasawara> Bug day stats for today look good so far:
[18:41] <ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
[18:41] <ogasawara> Fix Released    2 (↑2)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (↑0)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Won't Fix   2 (↑2)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Invalid 1 (↑1)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (↑0)
[18:41] <smb> the three remaining might be solved by rc2
[18:41] <ogasawara> In Progress 1 (↑1)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Incomplete  52 (↑52)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Triaged 26 (↓5)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Confirmed   29 (↓6)
[18:41] <ogasawara> New 107 (↓47)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
[18:41] <ogasawara> Fix Released    0 (↑0)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Fix Committed   1 (↑1)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Won't Fix   1 (↑1)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Invalid 0 (↑0)
[18:41] <ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (↑0)
[18:41] <ogasawara> In Progress 1 (↑1)
[18:42] <ogasawara> Incomplete  4 (↑4)
[18:42] <ogasawara> Triaged 42 (↓8)
[18:42] <ogasawara> Confirmed   0 (↑0)
[18:42] <ogasawara> New 1 (↑1)
[18:42] <ogasawara> smb: I was thinking that too
[18:42] <ogasawara> I also personally emailed the guys who sent introductory emails to the kernel team mailing list to see if they'd want to help out.  Real life seems to get in the way but hopefully I can work with them to tackle a few bugs on the list today or sometime later this week.
[18:42] <ogasawara> bjf: done
[18:42] <apw> ogasawara, good stuff, a gentle intro is worth it
[18:42] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:42] <jjohansen> union mounts?
[18:43] <apw> they are looking dubious, seems there are some reworks in there
[18:43] <apw> (vf union mounts, making 2.6.31 timeframe)
[18:43] <apw> we need to discuss our fallback position, which may well be using fuse for the release
[18:44] <apw> that can be discussed nearer the release
[18:44] <cking> w/o any risk?
[18:44] <apw> cking, ?
[18:45] <cking> if there is no working fallback, it's cutting it close to the release. Or maybe I misunderstood
[18:45] <apw> no we are using fuse now as our fill in for live cd's
[18:45] <apw> so no work would be needed to use that for final.  we need to confirm its acceptable of course
[18:46] <cking> OK. Thanks - I understand now.
[18:46] <apw> i'll add union mounts to the release status
[18:46] <apw> there is also devtmpfs which is looking very interesting for recovery
[18:47] <apw> and we may be asked to carry it for karmic, just to keep it in mind
[18:47] <bjf> Anyone else have anything?
[18:47] <bjf> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
[18:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
[18:47]  * apw suggests we have a rota, so its easy to chose
[18:48] <manjo> yes
[18:48] <bjf> alphabetical?
[18:48] <apw> heh ... anything
[18:48] <cking> OK, but note I may be zipping off to have an op at a drop of a hat
[18:48] <smb> wfm
[18:48] <apw> ack
[18:48] <bjf> if cking unavailable I'll cover for him
[18:49] <apw> ok so i thikn that makes it me for next week
[18:49] <rtg> apw, amitk comes before andy
[18:49] <apw> yay
[18:49] <amitk> I'll do it
[18:49] <bjf> a plan!   That's All Folks!!
[18:49] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:49] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:49.
[18:50] <amitk> bjf: please mail me the actions
[18:52]  * ball needs to attend beginners' meetings
[19:41] <Ddorda> when will the membership meeting begin..?
[19:45] <adiroiban> after mj is burried :)
[19:46] <Ddorda> :ג
[19:46] <Ddorda> :D
[19:46] <Ddorda> hey adiroiban, long timr no see :P
[19:46] <adiroiban> :)
[19:46] <adiroiban> hi
[19:48] <czajkowski> Ddorda: there is one at 9pm tonight
[19:49] <Ddorda> 9pm..? here it's 9:48 atm.. lol
[19:49] <Ddorda> you mean more 10 minutes?
[19:49] <czajkowski> well it's 19:49 here
[19:49] <czajkowski> popey: *ping*
[19:49] <adiroiban> i think that all community meetings for today were postponed
[19:50] <czajkowski> popey: is there a membership meeting tonight and if so what toe
[19:54] <Ddorda> hey RockyRoad :D
[19:54] <popey> hi czajkowski
[19:54] <popey> what does the wiki say?
[19:55] <heartsmagic> hello
[19:55] <popey> The EMEA membership board meets every first tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC. The next meeting is scheduled for July 7th 2009, 20:00 UTC and and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.
[19:55] <popey> looks good
[19:55] <RockyRoad> hi Ddorda
[19:55]  * popey pokes Seveas stgraber Pricey ..
[19:55] <czajkowski> popey: just wondered as somone said some meetings were postponed and Ddorda was wondering
[19:55] <czajkowski> Ddorda: there you go 20:00UTC
[19:55]  * czajkowski goes back to sleep
[19:55] <popey> which is in 1 hour and 5 mins :)
[19:56] <popey> 1 hour and 4 mins
[19:56] <popey> ish
[19:56] <heartsmagic> has meeting started?
[19:56] <Ddorda> popey: the meeting is in 1 hour?
[19:56] <stgraber> I'm sort of around (half in another meeting)
[19:56] <czajkowski> Ddorda: yes
[19:57] <popey> stgraber: its not for another hour
[19:57] <heartsmagic> ok one hour later
[19:57] <Ddorda> czajkowski: thanks
[19:57] <RockyRoad> hi czajkowski :)
[20:00] <stgraber> popey: fine, will be there then
[20:52] <jester-> hi
[20:52] <MTecknology> hi
[20:52] <shane_fagan> hi
[20:52] <Deindre> hi
[20:53] <elleuca> hi
[20:55] <artir> hi
[20:57] <czajkowski> Aloha
[21:00] <Ddorda> hey. i'm back for the meeting
[21:01] <MTecknology> popey: you ready?
[21:03]  * stgraber waves
[21:03]  * forumsmatthew waves back
[21:04] <popey> o/
[21:05] <MTecknology> popey: meeting is late
[21:05] <popey> thanks for the info
[21:05] <MTecknology> must start right this very second!
[21:05] <MTecknology> :P
[21:07] <popey> Seveas, stgraber, Pricey...
[21:07]  * artir is away for dinnar. brb in some minutes
[21:07] <Seveas> yo
[21:07] <popey> evening
[21:08] <popey> no phanatic..
[21:08] <Seveas> Pricey, wake up!
[21:08] <Seveas> :)
[21:08] <popey> no markvandenborre
[21:08] <popey> Pricey has a couple of emergencies at work
[21:08] <Seveas> k
[21:09] <popey> ok, stgraber / Seveas / forumsmatthew and me is enough
[21:09] <Seveas> shall we start with the 4 of us?
[21:09] <forumsmatthew> +1
[21:09] <popey> yup
[21:09] <Seveas> excellent. Consider the meeting started then
[21:09] <Seveas> first candidate is shane_fagan, please introduce yourself to us Shane
[21:09] <shane_fagan> Im kind of a little helper in a lot of areas. I admin http://ubuntu-ie.org/ . Im the leader of the Irish translations team for about 2 months now and im trying to get some interest in that. I fixed a few bugs in ubuntu's documentation recently, I test new releases of ubuntu (im using 9.10 at the moment), a little bit of advocacy and answer questions on launchpad and IRC if they have any problems there that I can help with
[21:09] <shane_fagan> . I also help out with zeitgeist that will more than likely be included in ubuntu at some stage, I do documentation for zeitgeist and I sorted out one cool feature for developers, that lists out the development work they were doing recently. So I do a lot in many different areas both upstream and in ubuntu itself.
[21:10] <Seveas> other candidates: please prepare a 3-line introduction to paste in the channel when it is your turn.
[21:10] <shane_fagan> Oh sorry that was a little long
[21:10]  * popey reads wiki pages and launchpad profile
[21:11] <Seveas> is the irish cheering squad available to applaud shane_fagan ?
[21:11] <shane_fagan> A few
[21:11] <shane_fagan> Some are away at guadec etc
[21:11]  * forumsmatthew invites the friends of Shane to speak up
[21:11] <RockyRoad> yep
[21:12] <czajkowski> shane_fagan: is a great guyu for the Irish LoCo he helps where he can on the site when myself and mean-machine are busy and is always in the channel to help out
[21:12] <czajkowski> He has taken on the role of promoting the Irish translations and knows a lotta work needs to be done with it
[21:12] <czajkowski> He's a great assest to the Irish LoCo.
[21:13] <ebel> Yeah
[21:13] <ebel> He's been doing loads on launchpad as you can see from his profile
[21:13] <popey> I see lots of launchpad answers activity, does that take up much of your time shane_fagan ?
[21:13] <shane_fagan> Ah a little but its not too hard
[21:14] <shane_fagan> I do it just because its an easy way to get involved
[21:14] <ebel> and he's taken upon the task of doign irish translations, which no-one else was doing
[21:14] <popey> :)
[21:14] <popey> I am going to +1 based on launchpad answers, and cheers from other members of the Irish LoCo
[21:14] <forumsmatthew> I'm very pleased. You have a lot going for you and seem to be a real benefit to the community.
[21:14] <forumsmatthew> I'm +1
[21:14] <Seveas> +1
[21:14] <forumsmatthew> and happy birthday
[21:15] <shane_fagan> Thanks
[21:15] <shane_fagan> :)
[21:15] <Seveas> stgraber, ?
[21:15] <RockyRoad> happy birthday shane :)
[21:15] <stgraber> +1
[21:16] <Seveas> that's +4, happy birthday and welcome aboard!
[21:16] <shane_fagan> Thanks guys :)
[21:16] <Seveas> Ddorda, you're up
[21:16] <czajkowski> shane_fagan: well done
[21:16] <forumsmatthew> congratulations!
[21:16] <Ddorda> okay.
[21:16] <ebel> congrats shane_fagan
[21:16] <Ddorda> I'm very active on the Israeli LoCo. I'm a Hebrew translator and give support on out LoCo forums. on the last weeks i was very active on Ubuntu-drupal project too, while building out new Loco website.
[21:16] <Ddorda> I love being active. I have the time and I love open-source, so why not :D
[21:17] <artir> back
[21:17] <RockyRoad> \o/
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> I see lots of translation work and your testimonials look good
[21:18] <MTecknology> Ddorda has been very helpful with #ubuntu-drupal. He's helped us with styles for RTL languages and has been helping in the channel and on launchpad. He's already been very helpful doing things I can't. The thing I've liked most about him is his interest in promoting FOSS.
[21:19] <Seveas> Ddorda, your translation activity, which I would consider an important part of your application only really started about a month ago with some sporadic things before that
[21:19] <Seveas> and as you say your drupal involvement is fairly recent too
[21:19] <forumsmatthew> tell us about the sub distribution you mention on your wiki page
[21:19] <popey> brb
[21:19] <Seveas> Thus I'm inclined to go for -1, as I like to see more sustained contributions
[21:20] <MTecknology> Seveas: Ddorda has been helping for a few months now
[21:20] <Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i'm starting a new distribution
[21:20] <Ddorda> basted on the Islamic one
[21:21] <Pricey> Sorry for rubbish reliability.
[21:21] <Pricey> Ddorda: What are your aims for that?
[21:21] <Ddorda> that one is going to be for the religion Jewish, cause most of them are real poor, and they need many specific application
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> Seveas, I do see translations going back to Sept 2008, although you are right that they became far more regular and common just a month ago
[21:21] <Ddorda> well, i thought of the idea making it. it's a real new project so it doesn;t have anything yet
[21:22] <Seveas> Ddorda, just curious, which applications would that be? I know that the christian edition includes bible software but I know of no equivalents for a jewish distro.
[21:22] <Pricey> Ddorda: You'd probably do best to have a real reasnoing for putting huge work into maintaining a project like that.
[21:22] <MTecknology> Seveas: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~ddorda/+translations?start=100&batch=50
[21:23] <Ddorda> Seveas: prayers clock for example
[21:23] <Ddorda> or an app to close the computer when Saturday comes
[21:23] <Ddorda> and a bible program
[21:23] <forumsmatthew> What I'm seeing is a really good start, but I think Seveas has a point, that there hasn't yet been a sustained contribution over time.
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> There have been sporatic contributions over time, but consistent contributions started last month
[21:24] <Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i'm active on ubuntu israel forums about a year
[21:24] <popey> back
[21:24] <MTecknology> His translation efforts have been going on for a year now
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> cool. do you have a link to your forum profile?
[21:24] <Pricey> MTecknology: but sporadic?
[21:24] <Ddorda> forumsmatthew: one minute
[21:25] <Ddorda> http://www.ubuntu-il.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=68
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> bummer. I can't view it without being logged in
[21:26] <aantn> Ddorda: very cool idea about creating a jewish distribution of ubuntu
[21:26] <Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i will tell what's in it..?
[21:26] <aantn> Ddorda: are you aiming at charedim or datim leumim?
[21:27] <aantn> (ultra-orthodox or modern orthodox jews, for the rest of you)
[21:27] <MTecknology> He's been working on the new website for the israel team - ubuntu-il.com/site/new
[21:27] <Ddorda> aantn: i thought of trying to find something they both will like
[21:27] <forumsmatthew> I would like to see a join date, posts, categories (mostly chat, or helping other users with problems), stuff like that
[21:27] <forumsmatthew> it would be better to have other forum users testify on those stats and activities
[21:27] <Seveas> We need to keep track of time. Can I please ask for a vote?
[21:27] <Ddorda> forumsmatthew: i have joing about a year and half ago, but the forums crashed
[21:27] <Pricey> I'm agreeing with Seveas for the time being. -1
[21:28] <Ddorda> so the manager made another forums
[21:28] <popey> I'm finding it difficult seeing a sustained contribution
[21:28] <Ddorda> so it's not my real joining date
[21:28] <aantn> Ddorda: okay, cool
[21:28] <forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to -1 for now, but with the hope that in about 6 months or so you will come back with more consistent activity to show during that time
[21:28] <Seveas> popey, stgraber ?
[21:28] <popey> agreed, -1
[21:28] <stgraber> I'd also like seeing you in a few months with even more contributions to Ubuntu, so -1 for me too
[21:28] <Pricey> Ddorda: Please don't rush into this 'new distribution' without working out if it is really needed.
[21:29] <Pricey> (and then what is required of it)
[21:29] <Seveas> ok. Ddorda, as we said, you are doing good work, but we are also looking for documented sustained contributions. So please keep on going and come back in a few months
[21:29] <Seveas> Deindre, you're up next
[21:29] <Deindre> ok
[21:29] <Ddorda> Seveas: okay. thanks...
[21:30] <Pricey> Very sorry, running :S
[21:30] <Deindre> Hi! I'm Flavia Weisghizzi, I'm from Italy and I'm a journalist and I'm Ubuntu-it media relation coordinator. I entered Italian Community about 2 years and half ago, and I've tried to do my best in every field in which my language skills could be useful: localization, web and marketing. My mainly objective and care is spread Ubuntu spirit beyond trade magazines through TV, radio and traditional media.
[21:30] <Deindre>  This is my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Flavia and this is my Lp profile https://launchpad.net/~flavia-weisghizzi
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> you have wonderful testimonials!
[21:31] <popey> yeah
[21:31] <Deindre> thank you
[21:32] <Deindre> My work is very hidden, because I often work with mail or by phone with journalist
[21:32] <Seveas> Deindre, are you active on the italian and/or global forums? If so, can you give us a link to your forum profile(s)?
[21:32] <forumsmatthew> the press releases and such on the Media Relations page look good
[21:33] <Deindre> Seveas: I have a profile on Italian forum, but isn't much releavant probably
[21:33] <Deindre> but this is: http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> do you still coordinate the work of the media relations team?
[21:34] <Deindre> yes of course
[21:34] <Seveas> Deindre, what's your userid? The link you sent is a link-to-your-own-profile thing :)
[21:34] <Deindre> we gather the work of our team in a media web page   http://www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=media
[21:35] <forumsmatthew> okay, looking at that, and seeing the number of Italian language media outlets that have received and run items based on the team's press releases is impressive
[21:35] <Deindre> and to wiki one :    	 	 	 	 	 	   http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoPromozione/UbuntuUfficioStampa/Comunicati
[21:36] <popey> http://www.ubuntu-it.org/contenuti/u-weekly.shtml are these no longer translated or are they somewhere else Deindre ?
[21:36] <forumsmatthew> this one is what I was looking at http://www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=media
[21:37] <Deindre> Seveas: sorry, this is my profile http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23500
[21:37] <Deindre> forumsmatthew: yes that is right
[21:37] <Seveas> +1 from me based on contributions in a difficult area, good testimonials and long term activity
[21:38] <Deindre> popey: no no, the articles gather in media pages are written by italian newspapers
[21:38] <popey> ahh
[21:38] <forumsmatthew> I feel very good giving a +1
[21:38] <Deindre> popey: we don't translate it all, we write international and local news
[21:38] <stgraber> +1 too
[21:38] <popey> oh, even better :)
[21:38] <popey> +1
[21:38] <Seveas> that's +4, and with Pricey having run away to another disaster that means welcome aboard!
[21:39] <popey> congratulations Deindre keep up the great work
[21:39] <Seveas> elleuca, you're next and last on the list
[21:39] <Deindre> thank you!!!!
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> congratulations!
[21:39] <shane_fagan> Congrats
[21:39] <Gwaihir> congrats!
[21:39] <popey> \o/ more female ubuntu members
[21:39] <elleuca> here I'm
[21:39] <elleuca> I switched to Ubuntu 5 year ago, but a was yet a GNU/Linux - 10 years next autumn, let's party :) - user and a GNOME translator and contributor. My current official role is coordinate the Italian GNOME Team and work on translations, but I also enjoy myself testing development stuff, providing patches, and help Italian Ubuntu users to solve their issues.
[21:39] <elleuca> http://launchpad.net/~elle.uca
[21:39] <elleuca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucaFerretti/
[21:40] <Seveas> elleuca, 5 years ago ubuntu did not exist :)
[21:40] <elleuca> hmmm
[21:40] <popey> Its funny how many people put that on their wiki pages :)
[21:40] <elleuca> wopps
[21:41] <elleuca> 4, maybe?
[21:41] <forumsmatthew> Um, wasn't April 2004 more than 5 years ago? :)
[21:41] <popey> Ok, this is a very easy +1 for me, _massive_ translation effort over a sustained period, with great testimonials.
[21:42] <popey> forumsmatthew: october 2004 wasnt :)
[21:42] <popey> picky picky picky
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> Agreed, I've been looking through everything. +1
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> popey, doh!
[21:42] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, in april 2004 ubuntu did not exist. i believe it was called no-name-yet until august
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> it was that 2009-2004 thing that threw me
[21:42] <Seveas> but yeah, +1 for elleuca. Yay for upstreams
[21:42] <popey> aaanyway
[21:42] <stgraber> +1
[21:42] <elleuca> ok, my memory is falling down, most probably it was october 2005
[21:42] <popey> thats 4!
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> congratulations!
[21:43] <elleuca> thank you
[21:43] <Gwaihir> congrats! :)
[21:43] <shane_fagan> Congrats
[21:43] <popey> well done elleuca keep up the fantastic effort!
[21:43] <Deindre> congrats
[21:43] <Seveas> list empty. meeting done
[21:43] <Deindre> thank you for all
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> thanks, everyone!
[21:43] <Seveas> next meeting august 4th, 20:00
[21:43] <elleuca> thanks, everyone
[21:44] <Seveas> my eyes are killing me so I'm out. Congratulations new members!
[21:44] <popey> hah, Seveas you beat me to ~ubuntumembers :)
[21:45] <popey> "Luca Ferretti (elle.uca) is already a member of Ubuntu Members."
[21:45] <Seveas> doing that during the meeting now so I don't forget :)
[21:45] <popey> i thought the same thing ;)
[21:52] <Ddorda> when will be the next ubuntu memership meeting?
[21:53] <elleuca> (22:43:53) Seveas: next meeting august 4th, 20:00
[21:56] <Ddorda> elleuca: thanks...
[22:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[22:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
[22:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:00] <ogra> moo
[22:00] <dholbach> hola
[22:00] <nhandler> o/
[22:00]  * NCommander blinks
[22:00] <NCommander> people?
[22:00] <paulliu> hi
[22:00] <ogra> hmm
[22:00] <NCommander> !calendar
[22:00] <NCommander> ...
[22:00] <NCommander> that's handy
[22:00] <nhandler> NCommander: Community Council Meeting
[22:00]  * stgraber waves
[22:00] <NCommander> ugh
[22:01] <ogra> nhandler, bad
[22:01] <NCommander> Veyr bad
[22:01] <ogra> :)
[22:01] <dholbach> you guys have a meeting right now?
[22:01] <ogra> (fro NCommander at least)
[22:01] <NCommander> dholbach, sorta
[22:01] <NCommander> dholbach, I kinda set the time wrong for the meeting today for us. It was technically supposed to be at 13:00UTC
[22:01] <dholbach> keep going, there might be some people a bit late or are you just starting?
[22:01] <NCommander> dholbach, but I sent the time as 21:00
[22:01] <NCommander> *cough*
[22:01] <ogra> dholbach, we would start now
[22:01] <dholbach> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[22:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[22:01] <ogra> dholbach, NCommander messed up the time
[22:01] <dholbach> oops
[22:01] <NCommander> We can vacate to #ubuntu-mobile
[22:02] <ogra> NCommander, lets go to #ubuntu-mobile
[22:02] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[22:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:02.
[22:03] <dholbach> hi sabdfl
[22:03] <sabdfl> hola dholbach
[22:03] <dholbach> mako just texted me and said he'd be a bit late
[22:03] <dholbach> didn't hear back from mdke though
[22:03] <dholbach> TechnoViking can't make it for sure
[22:03] <nhandler> dholbach: Just out of curiosity, how is the CC handling mako's expired membership?
[22:04] <dholbach> nhandler: that's one of the things we're going to talk about in just a bit
[22:04] <nhandler> Great! I didn't see it on the agenda, which is why I asked
[22:05] <dholbach> sabdfl: shall we dive right into it and I send Mako the log once he turns up or shall we wait? (I guess it might take another 15m for him - he's in Mexico somewhere)
[22:05] <sabdfl> let's get going
[22:05] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[22:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is dholbach.
[22:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:05] <sladen> mako was just disappearing off to lunch 45minutes ago, so (hopefully) should be back
[22:06] <dholbach> so there's a bunch of topics on the agenda, I don't think we get around to doing all of them, we should cut them down now
[22:06] <dholbach> the most pressing one to keep the CC running is re-staffing it
[22:06] <dholbach> I guess the Wiki licensing can wait until the next meeting
[22:07] <dholbach> the CoC review we can do if there's still time
[22:07] <dholbach> sabdfl: does that sound reasonable?
[22:07] <sladen> dholbach: that is kind of important, why is it not on the Agenda?
[22:07] <dholbach> sladen: I did a review together with mako, somehow nobody put it up there
[22:08] <dholbach> sladen: but if we do it in 2 weeks that should be fine too
[22:08] <sabdfl> Karmic.
[22:08]  * dholbach hugs sabdfl
[22:08] <dholbach> sabdfl: does that sound OK? agenda-wise?
[22:09] <sabdfl> dholbach: X crashed
[22:09] <sabdfl> restaffing first
[22:09] <dholbach> ok
[22:09] <dholbach> [TOPIC] restaffing the CC
[22:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  restaffing the CC
[22:09] <dholbach> the last time we were complete we were around 8 people
[22:09] <dholbach> and decisions and meetings were a lot more fluent and regular :)
[22:10] <dholbach> we have 4 people left on the CC: https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
[22:10] <dholbach> and four slots open
[22:11] <dholbach> sabdfl: how do you want us to handle it? I think you have a few recommendations already
[22:11] <sabdfl> in the past, we've aimed to stagger elections
[22:12] <sabdfl> but that just makes the admin pile up
[22:12] <sabdfl> i think it would be better to run a big election every year, or two
[22:12] <dholbach> yes, it took me a bit to realise that :)
[22:12] <sabdfl> that way, the whole community will be aware of it
[22:12] <sabdfl> we can run a proper nomination process, i'll put forward candidates and we vote
[22:12] <sabdfl> what do you think?
[22:13] <dholbach> sabdfl: nomination process would be "everybody send an email to mark@ubuntu" and "we vote" means ~ubuntumembers polls?
[22:13] <sabdfl> i would ask that you handle the collation, but yes
[22:13] <czajkowski> totally new here, but could you put forward candidates say at a uds, and vote after that giving people time  to meet them or find out about them post an event like uds
[22:14] <czajkowski> then do the emailing bit
[22:14] <sabdfl> a good idea, yes
[22:14] <dholbach> czajkowski: interesting you mention that - we did that for one of the last MC elections and while they were not real "platforms" people at least set up wiki pages and said what they thought was important to them in the community and so on
[22:14] <sabdfl> not everyone comes to UDS, but it's useful nonetheless
[22:14] <sladen> sounds fine, anything that is capable of quickly reboosting the numbers.  I vaguely remember last time that here was some confusion about whether people were expected to self-nominate, be proposed by others, or be invited by Mark
[22:14] <sabdfl> sladen: any of the above
[22:14] <czajkowski> that way introducing new people and not necessarily the same pople so you get to meet the people behind the group
[22:15] <dholbach> so at least gave some insight and especially in a community of hundreds of ~ubuntumembers where you don't know everybody that makes sense
[22:15] <sabdfl> we have always had amazing folks on the CC
[22:15] <popey> tough act to follow :S
[22:15] <sabdfl> but the organisation of candidates and votes has been poor
[22:15] <nhandler> sabdfl: I think part of that is lack of publicizing votes in the past
[22:16] <dholbach> nhandler: the results were available in LP, weren't they?
[22:16] <nhandler> Most of the votes for other councils get an email sent out and possibly a blog post, that is all
[22:16] <sabdfl> i think things like the regional membership boards give us a deeper sense of the talent pool for governance
[22:16] <sabdfl> as do the various delegated councils
[22:16] <nhandler> dholbach: The results are available, but based on those numbers, not many people are voting
[22:16] <nhandler> I think that is due to them not being aware that a vote is going on
[22:16] <sabdfl> i think having a vote of more candidates than seats would make for more charged elections
[22:16] <dholbach> nhandler: ah, now I see what you mean
[22:17] <sabdfl> ok, so coming to the present challenge...
[22:17] <sabdfl> if we want a CC of 8, does that mean we need 12 candidates?
[22:17] <nellery> is voting based on yes or no for each person or each person has a single vote?
[22:18] <nhandler> sabdfl: That might be a bit too many to vote on in LP. Maybe the CC could narrow down the number of candidates after the nomination period is over
[22:18] <sabdfl> nellery: we could do single transferable vote, for eg
[22:19] <sabdfl> for a confirmation vote, you vote on each candidate separately
[22:19] <nhandler> One thing we do not get with these elections are testimonials from other members like we get when people go for membership and stuff like that
[22:19] <sabdfl> if you're electing a group, then STV makes more sense
[22:20] <czajkowski> nhandler: that seems to work for the gnome foundation board
[22:20] <sabdfl> so, 12 candidates. when do we want to run the vote? i'm assuming everyone who's on will stand again, and those who just expired will too
[22:21] <dholbach> I guess we need 2 weeks time for nominations, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting
[22:21] <dholbach> ... or something
[22:22] <sabdfl> ok, +1. anyone want different timing?
[22:22] <nellery> with these "platforms" just be wiki pages?
[22:22] <dholbach> (and a week in between to probably shortlist)
[22:22] <nhandler> Are all nominated people going to be put on the LP poll?
[22:22] <nhandler> Ah, that answers my question dholbach
[22:22] <czajkowski> is there an ubuntu event on soon enough we could tie it in with , so more people will vote?
[22:23] <dholbach> I think it would make sense to use LP's "mail team members" feature for that :-)
[22:23] <dholbach> TATAAAA! :-)
[22:23] <popey> hah
[22:23] <sladen> sabdfl: so you're proposing to have all of the slots stand, not just the empty ones?
[22:23] <nhandler> dholbach: Who would be notified? All ubuntumembers?
[22:23] <dholbach> nhandler: yes, everybody who can vote :)
[22:24] <heartsmagic> is it started?
[22:24] <nhandler> dholbach: I also think *several* blog posts should be put on the Planet announcing the vote (and an email to one of the -announce lists as well)
[22:24] <sabdfl> sladen: yes, if we are going to converge, and elect a group in one sot, we should do that
[22:24] <dholbach> nhandler: that sounds good to me
[22:25] <sladen> sabdfl: for a period of 24 months?
[22:25] <nhandler> Also, you need to leave time for the CC to confirm all nominees are willing to serve on the CC
[22:25] <dholbach> nhandler: yes
[22:26] <sabdfl> sladen: 12 or 24, what do you think would be better?
[22:26] <dholbach> sabdfl: is there a default expiry set in LP right now?
[22:27] <sabdfl> yes, i think it's one year
[22:27] <nhandler> It looks more like 2 years based on the dates sabdfl
[22:28] <nellery> I think one would keep the members more fresh
[22:28] <dholbach> 2 years sounds fine to me (with the expiry of the current members)
[22:28] <heartsmagic> sorry for disturbing you but i am a member candidate, do i have to do someting for this meeting?
[22:28] <dholbach> heartsmagic: the CC doesn't do membership approval anymore - please head to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[22:28] <sabdfl> heartsmagic: nice nick, but no, this is the CC not a membership board
[22:28] <popey> heartsmagic: i think you missed the emea membership earlier
[22:28] <sladen> my personal preference would be 24 months  staggered 4 + 4  (same amount of hassle as 12 months x 8)
[22:28] <sabdfl> sladen: twice the hassle
[22:29] <sladen> both are twice the hassle of 24 months x8, yes
[22:29] <sabdfl> ok, i'm going to XO this one - dholbach, will you announce the schedule as discussed above?
[22:29] <dholbach> so to recap? 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length
[22:29] <heartsmagic> missed it? when
[22:29] <sabdfl> +1
[22:29] <popey> heartsmagic: 20:00UTC
[22:29] <dholbach> 1 from me too
[22:30] <dholbach> [AGREED] CC Re-staffing: 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length - Daniel to announce the schedule
[22:30] <MootBot> AGREED received:  CC Re-staffing: 2 weeks time for nominations, some time for shortlisting, a week of confirmation, 2 weeks time for asking people to put up their "platforms" or wiki pages which talk a bit about them 1 week for announce, 2 weeks for voting, 24 months term length - Daniel to announce the schedule
[22:30] <heartsmagic> so, how can i learn my stuation now?
[22:30] <sabdfl> thanks daniel
[22:30] <sabdfl> heartsmagic: sshhhhh ;-)
[22:30] <dholbach> heartsmagic: please head to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[22:30] <dholbach> sabdfl: which topic you want to talk about next?
[22:31] <sabdfl> CoC
[22:31] <dholbach> ok
[22:31] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Code of Conduct Review
[22:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Code of Conduct Review
[22:31] <dholbach> so while Mako was in Berlin, we spent some hours revamping the Code of Conduct and fixing bugs that were reported with it
[22:32] <dholbach> it now should be more general
[22:32] <dholbach> the merge proposal is up here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/+merge/7341
[22:32] <dholbach> This is the list of open bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct
[22:32] <dholbach> I didn't receive too many comments about the proposal yet
[22:33] <dholbach> we also added a rationale for all of the changes: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emako/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision/annotate/head%3A/rationale.txt
[22:34] <heartsmagic> good night everybody
[22:34]  * mako waves
[22:34] <dholbach> hey mako
[22:35] <mako> sorry i'm late. i was delayed getting in from the airport
[22:36] <dholbach> mako: no worries :)
[22:36] <ogra> mako !
[22:37] <ogra> the busy man
[22:37] <sabdfl> i'm still reading the rationale and changes
[22:37] <sabdfl> but this is very good so far
[22:37]  * dholbach high-fives mako
[22:40] <mako> the diff is too big too be useful. the wdiff is better but still pretty big
[22:41] <mako> mostly because of the you/we changes. hence the rationale document. if there are substantive changes not in the rationale document, that's a bug in the rationale. we tried to be comprehensive
[22:42] <sabdfl> ...translations around a release...
[22:43] <sabdfl> should that be during, rather than around?
[22:43] <dholbach> probably "around release time"
[22:43] <mako> yeah
[22:43] <dholbach> I think I introduced that mistake - mako: can you fix it?
[22:44] <mako> sure, no problem
[22:45] <dholbach> super
[22:46] <dholbach> beuno: wdiff plugin for loggerhead? :-)
[22:46] <sladen> I don't thing I am in a position to take in and comphrend the rationale and the various diffs this evening.
[22:46] <sabdfl> i'm removing whitespace and want to reflow the text
[22:46] <sabdfl> which will blow out the diff
[22:46] <sabdfl> also, i feel a need for a closing paragraph, anyone else agree>
[22:47] <sabdfl> ?
[22:47] <beuno> dholbach, I'm on bug-driven development for Loggerhead, so file a bug, and I'll get it done!
[22:47] <dholbach> sabdfl: "Be excellent with each other!"? :-)
[22:47] <sabdfl> there are a couple of other projects that have adopted this CoC
[22:47] <mako> i don't think it's necessary but wouldn't object to a good one :)
[22:48] <sabdfl> they've had to amend it to put their own project name in, and contextualise it
[22:48] <sabdfl> is it a pipe dream to have it be really general?
[22:48] <sladen> would be possible to debrand it
[22:48] <mako> so i've talked to some other people about this during this process
[22:49] <sladen> the same situation has occured with the MPL etc where the proliferation has come from having to change the $name and then rename it
[22:49] <sladen> even if the content is pretty much identical
[22:49] <mako> yeah, but that's not a problem here
[22:49] <sladen> and the service of providing a document that says "be nice to each other" is a good community service
[22:49] <mako> license proliferation is bad because it leads to incompatible code
[22:50] <dholbach> sabdfl: in that case we'd have to remove the examples too probably, which I found fairly helpful in bringing our values in a "very vague" way across
[22:50] <sabdfl> ok, let's defer that till another time, i like it as it is
[22:50] <sabdfl> it's already much classier and easier to derive from
[22:50] <mako> right, i would encourge other projects to think about relevant examples to help drive the points home when they derive :)
[22:51] <dholbach> sabdfl: do you want to leave some time for others to review or shall we go ahead with it?
[22:51] <sladen> (if somebody can prepare it, a reflowed and then HTML pretty red/green diff would be perfect for the review the changes)
[22:52] <sladen> ...per-word diff
[22:53] <sabdfl> i'm adding some bits
[22:54] <dholbach> how about putting up a new merge proposal and deciding about it at the next meeting?
[22:54] <mako> so i really like that we're using the meeting to sort of force people to look at this and edit it :)
[22:54] <sabdfl> okdokey
[22:54] <mako>  but there is a process issue as well
[22:54] <mako> is the CC happy voting as group to approve the CC, or do we want to put this up to a vote (perhaps at the same time as the new CC candidates)
[22:55] <sabdfl> not a bad idea
[22:55] <mako> since we've explicitly our community to sign it, it seems like it might be a good idea
[22:55] <dholbach> yeah, sounds good to me too
[22:55] <mako> and if we've got a vote coming up *anyway*...
[22:55] <dholbach> sabdfl: are you going to push your changes?
[22:55] <ajmitch> will the community need to sign the new revision again?
[22:56] <mako> ajmitch: that's another question
[22:56] <mako> i would say no
[22:56] <sabdfl> shortly, and then i'll need to wrap up here and head to bed. i know its even later for you daniel!
[22:56] <mako> logistically, that sounds insane :)
[22:56] <dholbach> I don't think there's changes in there that really require some "reconsideration"
[22:56] <sabdfl> ajmitch: i don't think these changes warrant asking for a re-affirmation
[22:56] <mako> not individually at least
[22:56] <ajmitch> I didn't think they would, but at some point in the future you may cross that
[22:56] <mako> if a large number of people say they think it's not in the spirit of the old draft and would have a problem with it, the CC should think real hard about approving it
[22:57] <sabdfl> We pride ourselves on building a productive, happy and agile community
[22:57] <sabdfl> that can welcome new ideas in a complex field, and foster collaboration
[22:57] <sabdfl> between groups with very different needs, interests and goals. We hold
[22:57] <sabdfl> our leaders to an even higher standard, in the Leadership Code of
[22:57] <sabdfl> Conduct, and arrange the governance of the community to ensure that
[22:57] <sabdfl> there are people with whom issues can be raised who are engaged,
[22:57] <sabdfl> interested and competent to help resolve them.
[22:57] <sabdfl> ...
[22:57] <sabdfl> it needs a final sentence
[22:57] <mako> ultimately, our leadership needs to be accountable to our members. this seems like one place where that (a) may be necessary and (b) where a consultation will help ensure that
[22:57] <popey> could launchpad keep a record of which one people have signed?, make it optional. So someone who signed the v1 CoC can also sign v2, but should not be forced to?
[22:58] <sabdfl> popey: it does, iirc
[22:58] <ajmitch> popey: I think it has the version stored
[22:58] <mako> it might be nice to keep track of that, but not necessary
[22:59] <mako> the new draft really is trying to enshire an identical set of principles :)
[22:59] <dholbach> [AGREED] Mark to push CoC changes, set up ~ubuntumembers vote about CoC change at the time of the CC election, which leaves enough time for comments. no explicit re-affirmation required.
[22:59] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Mark to push CoC changes, set up ~ubuntumembers vote about CoC change at the time of the CC election, which leaves enough time for comments. no explicit re-affirmation required.
[23:00] <dholbach> mako: we'll defer wiki licensing and expectations for boards and team councils until the next meeting
[23:00] <dholbach> there's still Edubuntu on the agenda, which I'd prefer to defer too
[23:01] <dholbach> does that sound OK?
[23:01] <dholbach> and Ubuntu One, where I'm not clear if the wiki page was updated with the explicit points that need discussion
[23:01] <sabdfl> ok
[23:02] <mako> i saw that nhandler asked about my expired membership at the beginning and y'all said it would be discussed
[23:02] <mako> i didn't see anything highlighted. was there an outcome?
[23:02] <sabdfl> mako: you're in till we have the big vote, if that's ok
[23:03] <dholbach> pasted it to you in PM
[23:04] <mako> ah, ok
[23:05] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[23:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[23:05] <sladen> dholbach: what's unclear about Silbs' request
[23:05] <dholbach> sorry
[23:06] <dholbach> who's here to discuss it?
[23:06] <stgraber> dholbach: I guess the edubuntu agenda item is also moving to the next meeting then ? (Diddn't see it mentioned above)
[23:06] <sabdfl> dholbach: lp:~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposed-revision
[23:06] <dholbach> thanks sabdfl
[23:06] <sabdfl> let's wrap!
[23:07] <sladen> can-of-worms neatly avoided for another fortnight^Wmonth
[23:07] <dholbach> yes, I'd prefer that too
[23:08] <dholbach> sladen: that's not fair - we had difficulties in achieving quorum and have a bunch of other things to discuss
[23:08] <dholbach> and is no honoring the discussions we had already
[23:09] <mako> it i don't undersatnd what that means
[23:09] <dholbach> the next meeting is going to be Tue, 21st July 11:00 UTC
[23:09] <mako> minus the "it"
[23:10] <sabdfl> the controversy stands, i'd like us to be raising new issues only now
[23:10] <dholbach> so let's adjourn and we'll have silbs there too
[23:10] <sabdfl> we didn't reach consensus on the use of the Ubuntu name, I don't think it's productive to revisit that now
[23:10] <mako> silbs issues sounded like a new issue (maybe a subset, but it was a distince new proposal/question)
[23:11] <sabdfl> there's a new question, w.r.t. one.ubuntu.com which is being raised here rather than simply executed
[23:11] <sabdfl> i asked that the domain be one.ubuntu.com, and it was felt better to raise it here than JFDI
[23:11] <sabdfl> which is how that came to be on the agenda
[23:11] <sabdfl> but we're out of time now
[23:12] <dholbach> I'll let silbs know about the meeting time
[23:12] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[23:12] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:12.
[23:12] <sabdfl> dholbach: thank you!
[23:12] <dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
[23:12] <sabdfl> and good night all
[23:12] <dholbach> I'll do the minutes (team report) tomorrow
[23:13] <mako> dholbach: awesome! thanks!
[23:14] <kalon33> good night all