[01:50] <Sarvatt> ahhh crap, video ABI bump in xserver master now :(
[01:50] <bryce> erf
[01:50] <Sarvatt> "These old interfaces are no longer supported by the server, removing them requires bumping the video driver ABI. Note that this is not guaranteed to be the last change in ABI version 6. "
[01:53] <Sarvatt> thats where I switch back to using server 1.6 branch/edgers methinks :D
[01:55] <Sarvatt> looks like theres a cleaner fix for the fbdev problem now too http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=43ee8d2ead862f84a4526a472519663ef27a8d6a
[01:58] <bryce> hrm
[01:59] <Sarvatt> did you get those messages about the nvidia and fglrx patches bryce?
[01:59] <Sarvatt> we cant use it that way, when you have a default xorg.conf it does walk the table from that list and only tries the first thing in there
[02:00] <Sarvatt> so when i boot with the patches applied and the default xorg.conf from now, it only tries fglrx or nvidia and gives up
[02:01] <Sarvatt> guess we could delete xorg.conf on upgrade if it matches a default's hash, but the people that edit it and dont explicitly add a driver to the device section will still fail
[02:02] <bryce> Sarvatt, no, which patches?
[02:02] <bryce> oh those patches
[02:02] <Sarvatt> the 104 and 105 patches we just added that change around the device tables in xf86AutoConfig.c
[02:02] <bryce> heh, well good we tested them only in xorg-edgers
[02:02] <Sarvatt> yup lol
[02:03] <bryce> yeah I was wondering at the time if it would mis-interact with when xorg.conf was present
[02:03] <Sarvatt> i only noticed because i was setting up an ibook to play with radeon KMS
[02:03] <bryce> no, deleting xorg.conf would be an ugly kludge.  this needs to work properly in both cases.
[02:04] <Sarvatt> tjaalton was saying it didnt use those tables at all if there was an xorg.conf but its pretty clear it does after testing it since its trying to load fglrx and failing, I am no programmer so I couldnt just follow the source to see what happens
[02:05] <bryce> yeah there's a different code path for both cases
[02:05] <Sarvatt> maybe if theres no pci ids folder defined its different is all I can think of
[02:07] <Sarvatt> we could maybe add more placeholder definitions to xorg.conf so it tries more than one entry?
[02:07] <Sarvatt> i didnt test that yet
[02:08] <Sarvatt> if theres anything you'd like me to test just let me know, i left the patches on my powerpc machine's xserver so i could test potential fixes out easier
[02:10] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Hurray!  More fglrx & nvidia pain with ABI changes?
[02:10] <Sarvatt> yup! fun!
[02:10] <Sarvatt> i'm switching to server 1.6 branch on all my machines now :D
[02:11] <RAOF> Thinking of which, libdrm is updated in git to get us a Karmic nouveau update.
[02:11] <Sarvatt> libdrm doesnt compile right now if you are thinking about pulling upstream git
[02:13] <RAOF> I'm not; I'm talking about the ubuntu branch of libdrm.git on alioth.
[02:14] <RAOF> 2.4.11 + the 4 git commits needed to support the 0.0.14 nouveau interface.
[02:14] <Sarvatt> yeah i was just saying that incase you were because libdrm-radeon1 would be nice to have at some point with KMS being enabled in karmic now, but thats not really important because it also requires mesa 7.6 which wont be in karmic anytime soon
[02:14] <RAOF> And radeon KMS isn't enabled by default again now.
[02:14] <bryce> dinner... bbs
[02:16] <RAOF> Mmm.  nouveau has lost the last of it's non-randr12 codepath.
[06:54] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: meh, not good
[10:26] <popey> bryce: any chance you could please take a look at bug 393510 for me, I'm trying to figure out if it is indeed an xorg or kernel issue, and if it's xorg, would a gdb debug be helpful?
[10:31] <tjaalton> popey: get a backtrace with gdb to see where it breaks
[10:31] <popey> doing that now
[10:31] <popey> is it good enough to get the "easy" one from apport?
[10:31] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing as per the top of that page?
[10:32] <tjaalton> never done that.. it depends on the output ;)
[10:32] <tjaalton> if it's useful or not
[10:32] <popey> ok, will do the gdb way then
[10:32] <popey> I know that works :)
[10:32] <tjaalton> yeah
[10:32] <popey> thanks
[10:33] <popey> libgl1-mesa-dri-dbg looks just like libg11-mesa-dri-dbg on my screen 
[10:33] <popey> l/1
[10:33] <tjaalton> that's probably not needed
[10:33] <bryce> popey, when you say "system crash" do you mean that X "freezes"?
[10:34] <popey> bryce: yes, x goes nuts with the display panel blinking madly
[10:34] <bryce> popey, looking at your logs I'm not seeing any of the normal stuff that suggests a crash
[10:34] <popey> maybe crash isn't the word, x becomes unusable
[10:34] <bryce> ok, gdb may not be useful in this case (but continue collecting it if it's not too hard, you never know)
[10:34] <popey> black screen with flickering and "interference" at the top
[10:34] <popey> ok, will do
[10:34] <bryce> ok sounds more like a freeze-with-corruption.  standby
[10:35] <popey> i note lots of spurious keys coming from the mouse pad
[10:35] <popey> in dmesg
[10:35] <bryce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze has some general tips for debugging freezes
[10:35] <popey> thanks
[10:35] <bryce> popey, ok attach your dmesg to the bug report that shows those spurious keys
[10:36] <popey> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28629975/dmesg.txt
[10:36] <bryce> popey, also, a lot of freeze bugs got resolved in going to karmic, so it would be REALLY useful if you could boot the karmic live cd (or upgrade) and see if that resolves the problem
[10:37] <popey> would you recommend an alpha bryce or a daily build?
[10:37] <bryce> tjaalton, do you have any clues on those key press errors?
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.052606] atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (raw set 2, code 0x8 on isa0060/serio0).
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.052613] atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes 08 <keycode>' to make it known.
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.054005] atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (raw set 2, code 0x0 on isa0060/serio0).
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.054011] atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes 00 <keycode>' to make it known.
[10:37] <popey> thats coming from the mouse
[10:37] <bryce> popey, for intel graphics, Alpha-2 was really solid
[10:37] <popey> ok, will try that
[10:38] <popey> thanks for the help, it's appreciated. It's for a machine that a friend of mine (the guy who filed the bug) is rebuilding for a woman whose son got the windows install infected 
[10:39] <bryce> popey, *nod*
[10:39] <bryce> popey, for what it's worth, Jaunty with Intel graphics kind of ended up sucking pretty bad
[10:39] <popey> yeah, i have an intel laptop myself :(
[10:39] <bryce> popey, either Jaunty or Karmic Alpha-2 are probably better choices if you go with a default install
[10:39] <popey> am now on karmic, which is a much more pleasant place for many reasons
[10:40] <bryce> popey, Jaunty can often be improved a lot by reverting to 2.4 or upgrading using xorg-edgers
[10:40] <bryce> er, "either Intrepid or Karmic Alpha-2..."
[10:40] <popey> karmic looking to fix the jaunty issues?
[10:41] <bryce> yep
[10:41] <bryce> karmic seems to be extraordinarily solid for intel graphics
[10:41] <popey> good good
[10:41] <tjaalton> bryce: nope, doesn't ring a bell
[10:41] <popey> the way it should be :)
[10:41] <bryce> :-)
[11:01] <popey> haha, typical, can't get the damn thing to crash now :)
[11:03] <Ng> karmic is indeed splendiforously wonderful on my 965 :)
[11:03] <Ng> hope it's the same on my new G45 ;)
[11:05] <tjaalton> popey: do you still need those options for the kernel?
[11:07] <popey> tjaalton: i will try without, but the internal keyboard seems wired up strangely
[11:07] <popey> ok, this is odd, the only thing that has changed (other than updates for 9.04 today) is its now not plugged into the mains
[11:10] <tjaalton> popey: ah, so you can't make it crash with 9.04 now?
[11:10] <popey> not at the moment
[11:10] <tjaalton> k..
[11:10] <popey> which is a little frustrating
[11:11] <popey> running x under gdb shouldn't change the behaviour should it?
[11:11] <tjaalton> shouldn't
[11:17] <Ng> but it will :)
[11:47] <popey> i have removed all the kernel boot options, and rebooted, no issues at all
[11:48] <popey> i can only imagine that the latest kernel update fixed this. could someone set that bug to fix released?
[11:51] <tjaalton> ok, done :)
[19:08] <Duke`> strange... during my last boot, DRM failed to open the gfx card (i945GM)
[19:09] <Sarvatt> so you have no drm now, or rebooting again fixed it?
[19:09] <Sarvatt> err no dri, sorry
[19:13] <Duke`> no dri... I rebooted and it loaded fine, this time
[19:14] <Duke`> like a random bug
[19:14] <Duke`> hardware not ready on time, or dunno what... :p
[19:16] <bryce> morning
[19:26] <Sarvatt> morning bryce
[19:48] <bdmurray> bryce: bug 395700 has a patch you might be interested in
[19:49] <bryce> bdmurray, cool thanks
[19:54] <Sarvatt> RAOF already added it to libdrm on origin/ubuntu on debian git
[19:56] <Sarvatt> shouldnt dh_makeshlibs -plibdrm-nouveau1 -V'libdrm-nouveau1 (>= 2.4.5)' -- -c4 be updated as well with that?
[19:57] <Sarvatt> man i really need to sit down and read up more on lib packaging
[19:59] <bryce> yeah no clue
[20:01] <Sarvatt> new symbols were added so i imagine it should be bumped to 2.4.11
[20:02] <tjaalton> yes
[20:37] <tormod> sarvatt: no mouse/touchpad (yay for assistive technologies like numpad mousing)
[20:38] <Sarvatt> lol someone just mentioned xserver-xorg-input-all not getting pulled in in #ubuntu-devel too
[20:39] <tormod> so the stock live CD is also broken?
[20:39] <Sarvatt> i just chrooted into the livecd and theres no input packages besides evdev
[20:40] <tormod> if you reroll the iso, consider removing usplash also
[20:40] <Sarvatt> yep no xserver-xorg-input-all package installed
[20:41] <Sarvatt> and i dont see why that is because its a depends  in the xorg metapackage
[20:41] <tormod> is xorg installed? :)
[20:41] <Sarvatt> yes
[20:42]  * tormod tries to resize the pidgin window using the keyboard
[20:43] <Sarvatt> oh i have source for  1:7.4+3ubuntu3, lets see if its in 3ubuntu4 thats broken
[20:43] <Sarvatt> nevermind it is 3ubuntu4 that i have
[20:45] <tjaalton> jcristau: ^^, xserver-xorg depends on -evdev first, then -input-all | -input-4, meaning that by installing -evdev the latter dependency is already satisfied, thus -input-all won't get installed
[20:45] <Sarvatt>  xserver-xorg-input-all | xserver-xorg-input-4,
[20:46] <Sarvatt> ^^ what he said :D
[20:47] <tjaalton> -evdev should be moved after -input-all | -input-4
[20:47] <Sarvatt> so i'll just add xserver-xorg-input-all to the build script tormod
[20:47] <tjaalton> it was like that in jaunty
[20:48]  * jbarnes wonders why pulseaudio periodically makes a "bump" sound
[20:48] <tjaalton> jbarnes: it turns off the amp
[20:48] <Sarvatt> HDA power savings probably
[20:48] <jbarnes> happens every few minutes though, it's not just a one time thing
[20:49] <jbarnes> maybe hda and pulse are fighting.. hda turns off the amp, pulse later turns it back on
[20:49] <Sarvatt> jbarnes remove the powersave line from snd-hda-intel in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
[20:51] <jbarnes> cool I'll try that
[20:57]  * tormod found an old usb mouse
[20:58] <Sarvatt> why not just install xserver-xorg-input-all tormod?
[20:58] <tormod> what can I do to make X (re)discover the touchpad after install it?
[20:58] <Sarvatt> sudo rmmod psmouse && sudo modprobe psmouse
[20:58] <tormod> thanks
[20:59] <tormod> Sarvatt, that worked! rocking
[20:59]  * tormod throws mouse away
[20:59] <Sarvatt> darn, cant reuse the DELPACKAGES env variable stuff without wiping edit/ since it fails doing the apt-get purge openoffice* that is already deleted
[21:00] <Sarvatt> so no usplash purge this cd, but input is installed :D
[21:05] <Sarvatt> should purge the brltty junk and printing/scanning support to save another 100MB off the iso size really :D
[21:06] <Sarvatt> but people might actually try to install off the cd and ubuntu-desktop would be gone that way, dunno how that would work
[21:10] <Sarvatt> wow, mozilla/chromium updates seem to be getting worse every day - Estimated build start:  	in 7 hours
[21:12] <Sarvatt> tormod: uploading the new cd now -- http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xorg-edgers-0.16-i386.iso
[21:14] <Sarvatt> ack no wonder theres a 7 hour wait -- https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/
[21:28] <Ng> man, first X crash on new laptop :(
[21:28] <Ng> nothing in logs, not even a segfault notice in dmesg
[22:26] <RAOF> tjaalton: Re the dh_makeshlibs above - Aren't the correct versioned dependencies generated by the versioning on the symbols in libdrm-nouveau1.symbols?  If not, why does that file exist?
[22:28] <jcristau> tjaalton: can you either file a bug, or commit the change yourself?  that way i don't have to keep track.
[22:29] <tjaalton> jcristau: I can commit it myself
[22:31] <tjaalton> RAOF: the symbols file is used to remind the packager to bump the shlibs :)
[22:31] <jcristau> i don't know how the various package managers resolve dependencies, so if you think changing the ordering works, then go for it
[22:31] <tjaalton> it used to be like that in jaunty
[22:31] <tjaalton> and I remember changing it in December or so
[22:35] <tjaalton> ah, it was in February.. it's a mystery why I didn't push it to debian back then
[22:41] <Sarvatt> anyone know a way to parse a large number of bootchart logs and make a graph of overall boot times out of it?
[23:25] <Sarvatt> hooo boy, its going to be fun figuring out how to reencode all audio output to an ac3 stream to switch my htpc to linux. i dont even know where to start with that one
[23:26] <Sarvatt> sorry, didnt mean to say that in here, silly irc client switching where it sends when someone disconnects
[23:26] <jbarnes> Sarvatt: the new sound blasters can do that in hw
[23:27] <Sarvatt> yeah i'm gonna have to look into getting something with dolby digital live built in and hope it works in linux i guess :D
[23:27] <jbarnes> the sound blaster I have works ok with linux
[23:27] <jbarnes> though the fancy stuff like ac3 transcode aren't supported yet I think (though I havne't looked too hard)
[23:29] <Sarvatt> i'm guessing i can do it with pulseaudio, or just force it somehow in xbmc.. in windows i do it through ffmpeg so i imagine i can do it in linux too
[23:30] <Sarvatt> ahhah mplayer -ao alsa:device=iec958 -ac hwac3 <file>
[23:31] <jbarnes> cool
[23:31] <jbarnes> I just have my amp do it for stereo streams
[23:31] <jbarnes> my new amp can do quite a few fancy things with non-7.1 streams