| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === salgado_ is now known as salgado | ||
| barry | #startmeeting | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry. | 15:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:00 |
| barry | hello and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting. who's here today? | 15:00 |
| bigjools | me | 15:00 |
| rockstar | ni! | 15:00 |
| bac | me | 15:00 |
| henninge | me | 15:00 |
| allenap | me | 15:00 |
| abentley | me | 15:00 |
| mars | me | 15:00 |
| noodles | yup | 15:00 |
| sinzui | me | 15:00 |
| BjornT | me | 15:00 |
| EdwinGrubbs | me | 15:01 |
| barry | intellectronica sends his apologies | 15:01 |
| barry | adeuring: ping | 15:01 |
| adeuring | me | 15:01 |
| gmb | me | 15:01 |
| barry | cprov, danilos ping | 15:01 |
| cprov | me | 15:02 |
| barry | gary_poster: ping | 15:02 |
| barry | salgado: ping | 15:02 |
| gary_poster | barry: thanks | 15:02 |
| gary_poster | me | 15:02 |
| salgado | me! | 15:02 |
| barry | [TOPIC] agenda | 15:02 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 15:02 |
| barry | * Roll call | 15:02 |
| barry | * Wednesday AMEU hard stop, barry | 15:02 |
| barry | * Action items | 15:02 |
| barry | * Mentoring update | 15:02 |
| barry | * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) | 15:02 |
| barry | i have a hard stop at 14:45 today. hopefully we won't go that long anyway :) | 15:03 |
| barry | [TOPIC] action items | 15:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: action items | 15:03 |
| barry | * adeuring to update wiki pages regarding `except Exception`, `KeyboardInterrupt` and `SystemExit` | 15:03 |
| adeuring | done | 15:03 |
| barry | adeuring: thanks! | 15:03 |
| barry | * gary_poster to take importfascist and rSP() discussion to ml | 15:04 |
| gary_poster | nope. I will bring new energy to the task. ;-) | 15:04 |
| barry | gary_poster: cool. keep it on the list then? | 15:04 |
| gary_poster | y | 15:04 |
| barry | +1 | 15:04 |
| danilos | me | 15:04 |
| barry | intellectronica's not here today, so... | 15:04 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Mentoring update | 15:05 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Mentoring update | 15:05 |
| barry | lessee, i think we're missing both deryck and leonardr | 15:05 |
| barry | any word from their mentors? how are things going? | 15:05 |
| rockstar | barry, things is going well. | 15:06 |
| barry | leonardr_: hi! | 15:06 |
| gmb | Very well. | 15:06 |
| leonardr_ | hi barry | 15:06 |
| gmb | Speaking of which... | 15:06 |
| barry | rockstar: great, thanks for mentoring. leonardr_ any comments, problems, feedback on reviewing? | 15:06 |
| barry | gmb: what's up? | 15:07 |
| gmb | barry: Oh, nothing, I just realised deryck wasn't here :) | 15:07 |
| barry | :) | 15:07 |
| barry | deryck: how's the reviewing going? | 15:07 |
| gmb | barry: FTR, deryck's doing a fine job. He'll graduate in no time. | 15:08 |
| deryck | barry, I think going well, if I could remember to show up for things. :) | 15:08 |
| barry | gmb, deryck excellent | 15:08 |
| barry | deryck: isn't it almost your eod? :) | 15:08 |
| leonardr_ | barry: i was hoping for some more interactive mentoring. on thursday i was reviewing a complicated branch and both rockstar and the person who submitted the branch were afk. i did the review but i don't think i learned as much from it as i could have | 15:08 |
| deryck | barry, not quite. :) | 15:08 |
| barry | leonardr_: you can always ping me if needed | 15:09 |
| leonardr_ | barry, ok, cool | 15:09 |
| barry | anything else on mentoring? | 15:09 |
| rockstar | leonardr_, I was afk? Hm. I don't remember that. I'll make sure to be around. | 15:09 |
| bigjools | leonardr_: if the submitter is not around, drop the review if you have questions | 15:09 |
| rockstar | I don't think dropping the review is right. I think you can respond without voting. | 15:10 |
| barry | or just ask all those questions in the review! | 15:10 |
| bigjools | if it was requested as an OCR, it goes to the back of the queue until that person shows up | 15:10 |
| leonardr_ | that's what i did. i did other reviews which were easier, and then i did this one | 15:10 |
| bigjools | these are the rules we agreed on a long time ago | 15:11 |
| barry | bigjools: +1 | 15:11 |
| leonardr_ | and i asked my questions in the review | 15:11 |
| bigjools | but leave a question in the review and mark it needs-reply | 15:11 |
| leonardr_ | the reason it was difficult is it took me a long time to understand the code well enough to formulate the questions | 15:11 |
| rockstar | bigjools, hm, I guess you have different rules than I, but my team spans more timezones than yours. | 15:11 |
| rockstar | leonardr_, was this cprov's branch? | 15:11 |
| leonardr_ | rockstar, yeah | 15:12 |
| bac | we should reiterate that people requesting an OCR need to be around or negotiate their absense with the reviewer | 15:12 |
| barry | leonardr_: that'll happen at first, don't worry about it too much | 15:12 |
| * bigjools is shocked that cprov was not around :) | 15:12 | |
| rockstar | bac, why do they need to be around? | 15:12 |
| bigjools | leonardr_: yeah, don't feel too bad about doing another review | 15:12 |
| bigjools | instead of that one | 15:12 |
| abentley | rockstar: OCR is supposed to be interactive. | 15:13 |
| rockstar | leonardr_, I was around last week. Remember, we got swamped? | 15:13 |
| bac | rockstar: so the review can be interactive. that was one of the principles of having OCR | 15:13 |
| cprov | leonardr_: I thought it was perfectly fine to jump to another review when I was out | 15:13 |
| barry | rockstar: they need to negotiate their absence with the reviewer, who might not want to take a particular branch if the submitter isn't around to answer questions in realtime | 15:13 |
| bigjools | this is written up on the OCR page I thought | 15:13 |
| rockstar | barry, okay, I think "negotiate with the reviewer" is better than "drop it until they come back" | 15:13 |
| cprov | leonardr_: there was enough time for finishing the review while I was around, but you had problems with your account, remember ? | 15:14 |
| leonardr_ | cprov: i did | 15:14 |
| barry | rockstar: right. but if the submitter just disappears, the reviewer has every right to move on | 15:14 |
| bigjools | exactly | 15:14 |
| leonardr_ | i don't blame anyone for not being around at my convenience. and i did move on--i reviewed the other two branches in the queue before coming back | 15:14 |
| rockstar | barry, yes, because it wasn't negotiated. I'm happy with that. | 15:14 |
| cprov | leonardr_: right, I think when something like this happens there isn't much you can do, abstain and move on, no worries. | 15:14 |
| barry | cool | 15:15 |
| barry | cprov: yep | 15:15 |
| leonardr_ | ok, in the future i'll abstain and do other work rather than bang my head against a branch all day | 15:15 |
| barry | leonardr_: thanks for bringing this up | 15:15 |
| leonardr_ | np | 15:15 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) | 15:16 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) | 15:16 |
| barry | does anybody have any other topics today? | 15:16 |
| barry | that seems like a "no" :) | 15:17 |
| henninge | barry: just to mention: | 15:17 |
| barry | henninge: go ahead | 15:17 |
| henninge | I changed my OCR slot to Monday Euro. | 15:17 |
| rockstar | barry, do we have a policy on multiline list comprehensions? | 15:17 |
| * bigjools thought of something | 15:17 | |
| barry | henninge: thanks. did you update the wiki page? | 15:17 |
| henninge | barry: yes | 15:17 |
| barry | rockstar: i believe we do, in our python style guide | 15:18 |
| barry | henninge: thanks! | 15:18 |
| barry | bigjools: go ahead | 15:18 |
| bigjools | ok | 15:18 |
| salgado | leonardr_, another option is to use kiko's approach and ask tons of questions on the review. once the developer answers them you can do a proper review | 15:18 |
| bigjools | in a fix I made this week I had a hellish time dealing with code that was a mix of unicode and ascii strings | 15:18 |
| bigjools | Bjorn had some interesting post-review points | 15:18 |
| bigjools | but the upshot is that the code should be using unicode strings throughout, up until the point where you have to encode it as utf | 15:19 |
| bigjools | is this enforceable? | 15:19 |
| leonardr_ | salgado, true | 15:19 |
| bigjools | across LP I mean | 15:19 |
| cprov | salgado: yes, that would work too, but unnecessarily binds the reviewer to the branch. | 15:19 |
| rockstar | bigjools, it'd be nice. | 15:19 |
| abentley | bigjools: In bzr, we often hold strings as utf-8-encoded bytes, for performance reasons. | 15:20 |
| barry | when we're on python 2.6, i really want to add "from __future__ import unicode_literals" to the header of every file | 15:20 |
| bigjools | abentley: interesting, how much of a performance hit is there? | 15:20 |
| barry | (and absolute_import but that's a different issue) | 15:20 |
| abentley | bigjools: dunno. And I know that bzr manipulates a lot more data than your typical Launchpad page. | 15:20 |
| bigjools | right | 15:21 |
| barry | abentley: bzr is probably more byte-oriented than launchpad, which is more text oriented | 15:21 |
| bigjools | it probably won't make much difference for us, we have bigger performance problems to worry about | 15:21 |
| abentley | barry: Lots of things are defined as unicode, like filenames and revision-ids. | 15:21 |
| barry | abentley: good point about filenames, didn't know about revids | 15:22 |
| bigjools | the thing I was fixing were error messages in our upload processor, as soon as an ascii string formatter pulls in some unicode from the database, you're in trouble | 15:22 |
| barry | i do think enforcing unicode literals will help, but it will probably expose places where we are being sloppy | 15:22 |
| flacoste | barry: won't that means a 100,000 line diffs? | 15:23 |
| bigjools | it might need a larger concentrated cross-team effort on it at some point | 15:23 |
| flacoste | barry: to update the expected output of doctests? | 15:23 |
| barry | flacoste: not if people are printing string values! | 15:23 |
| flacoste | barry: they are not | 15:23 |
| flacoste | barry: just grep for u' in the tests | 15:24 |
| abentley | barry: Python's willingness to convert ascii-encoded str into unicode is convenient, but can mask problems later. | 15:24 |
| barry | flacoste: it's our rule (now) but yeah there's legacy code | 15:24 |
| barry | abentley: yep | 15:24 |
| barry | anyway, we're not on python2.6 so it's kind of a moot discussion, but it should be a goal of ours to be explicit in our code whether we're talking strings or bytes | 15:25 |
| barry | (where byte literals are defined with b'' prefix) | 15:25 |
| barry | it won't be painless though ;) | 15:25 |
| barry | anyway... | 15:26 |
| barry | anything else on this or other topics for today? | 15:26 |
| bigjools | my immediate question is, it might be worth trying to enforce unicode now in reviews to reduce the potential for more problems. What do you think? | 15:26 |
| barry | bigjools: possibly. i hate to introduce more u'' prefixes when we can soon make them all go away | 15:27 |
| barry | bigjools: otoh, we can probably convert module-by-module | 15:27 |
| bigjools | I guarantee there will be lots of pain unless it's done all at once | 15:28 |
| bigjools | but ok, let's move on | 15:28 |
| barry | bigjools: which isn't to say you guarantee it will be painless if it is all done at once :) | 15:28 |
| bigjools | there's relative levels of pain :) | 15:28 |
| barry | :) | 15:29 |
| barry | okay, anything else? | 15:29 |
| barry | 5 | 15:29 |
| barry | 4 | 15:29 |
| barry | 3 | 15:29 |
| barry | 2 | 15:29 |
| barry | 1 | 15:29 |
| barry | #endmeeting | 15:29 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:29. | 15:29 |
| barry | thanks everyone! | 15:29 |
| abentley | barry: thanks yous | 15:29 |
| gmb | Cheers barry | 15:30 |
| bigjools | cheers | 15:30 |
| === salgado_ is now known as salgado | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| mwhudson | barry: hello | 23:34 |
| barry | #startmeeting | 23:35 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 17:35. The chair is barry. | 23:35 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 23:35 |
| barry | mwhudson: hi | 23:35 |
| barry | thumper: hi | 23:35 |
| barry | jml: hi | 23:35 |
| thumper | hi | 23:35 |
| barry | well, not much to recap from ameu today | 23:35 |
| barry | so i'll just open up the floor to anything you guys have | 23:36 |
| thumper | I don't have anything | 23:36 |
| mwhudson | oh | 23:36 |
| mwhudson | me neither | 23:37 |
| barry | mwhudson: record breaking | 23:37 |
| barry | i guess we're done then :) | 23:37 |
| thumper | w00t | 23:37 |
| barry | #endmeeting | 23:37 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 17:37. | 23:37 |
| * mwhudson wonders what the relationship between number of attendees and length of meeting is | 23:37 | |
| mwhudson | i think it's not linear :) | 23:37 |
| thumper | exponential | 23:37 |
| barry | you don't even want to know how long the meeting is when i'm the only one there | 23:38 |
| * barry -> more dinner | 23:38 | |
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