| Keybuk | mbiebl: which debian packages? | 09:08 |
|---|---|---|
| Keybuk | the speed difference between "initctl list" and "sudo initctl list" is kinda interesting | 11:35 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: the packages you uploaded to karmic | 14:12 |
| Keybuk | mbiebl: of upstart? | 14:20 |
| mbiebl | yeah | 14:20 |
| Keybuk | I didn't look in the Debian package | 14:20 |
| Keybuk | was there something I missed? | 14:20 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: for one, there was upstart-job already in their | 14:22 |
| mbiebl | and you merged the debs into one | 14:22 |
| mbiebl | (and some smaller stuff) | 14:22 |
| Keybuk | oh, I didn't know you'd done the upstart-job thing yet | 14:23 |
| Keybuk | I just stuck a quick-and-dirty shell script in there for now, until you did :) | 14:23 |
| mbiebl | maybe we should communicate better then ;-) | 14:25 |
| mbiebl | why the merge of the packages? | 14:26 |
| mbiebl | imho keeping e.g. the tty job files and the core upstart package separat made sense | 14:27 |
| Keybuk | the separation we had didn't make much sense | 14:44 |
| Keybuk | it was kinda arbitrary | 14:44 |
| Keybuk | ok, I'm confused ;) | 14:47 |
| Keybuk | you were saying I merged the Debian packages | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | did you mean that I merged the binary debs together | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | or merged with the Debian package (compared to the Ubuntu one) | 14:48 |
| mbiebl | I meant, merged the debs | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | ahh | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | right, yeah | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | we talked about doing that in Ubuntu a while back | 14:48 |
| Keybuk | since most things will ship their own upstart jobs, and we'll try and push them upstream | 14:49 |
| Keybuk | even util-linux will ship the jobs for the gettys | 14:49 |
| Keybuk | nothing would end up in those two packages | 14:49 |
| mbiebl | so it would be much easier to just drop system-services when util-linux does that | 14:49 |
| Keybuk | and with merging upstart-compat-sysv back into upstart (since shutdown, etc. are "native" now), they kinda all went away | 14:50 |
| Keybuk | really? doesn't make much difference surely? | 14:50 |
| Keybuk | util-linux will ship /etc/init/getty.conf | 14:50 |
| Keybuk | you don't have to follow that in Debian of course ;) | 14:51 |
| Keybuk | that's up to you | 14:51 |
| Keybuk | what did you mean about upstart-job btw? | 14:51 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: my point is not so much about the merge itself but having known beforehand what you are planning | 14:54 |
| Keybuk | you were in the room at UDS when we talked about it ;) | 14:55 |
| mbiebl | sorry, then I completely missed that part | 14:55 |
| mbiebl | when was this discussed, the the binary packages will be merged? | 14:55 |
| Keybuk | in the packaging policy session I think | 14:55 |
| Keybuk | the room with the glass wall | 14:55 |
| Keybuk | the getty bit specifically was in the karmic kms console one though | 14:56 |
| mbiebl | I honestly can't remember that | 14:56 |
| Keybuk | rationale: | 14:56 |
| Keybuk | system-services, currently only contains getty | 14:56 |
| Keybuk | we want to merge those into one instance job | 14:56 |
| Keybuk | now we've discovered that we probably need to dynamically create ttys anyway | 14:57 |
| Keybuk | so it all makes sense to move to util-linux | 14:57 |
| Keybuk | (leaving that package empty) | 14:57 |
| Keybuk | startup-tasks is already empty | 14:57 |
| mbiebl | there is no point arguing about that ;-) | 14:57 |
| Keybuk | things like running udev belong in udev, setting hostname belongs in util-linux, etc. | 14:57 |
| Keybuk | upstart-compat-sysv, we discussed here ages ago that it didn't make sense to hang those tools out to dry | 14:58 |
| mbiebl | arguing about startup-tasks, I mean | 14:58 |
| Keybuk | they got moved from compat/sysv to util in the main source package (pre 0.5 iirc) | 14:58 |
| Keybuk | and now the default recommended jobs are shipped in the source package as well | 14:58 |
| Keybuk | especially when upstart gains native lsb jobs, it becomes increasingly blurry | 14:58 |
| Keybuk | having everything in one binary package makes the migration easier too | 14:59 |
| Keybuk | the missing piece is something to migrate custom changes from /etc/event.d to /etc/init | 14:59 |
| Keybuk | and clean up after | 14:59 |
| Keybuk | if all the resulting files are in one package, that's easier :p | 14:59 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: slightly off topic: you said 0.10/1.0 will continue to support 0.6 job definitions, right? | 15:01 |
| Keybuk | right | 15:02 |
| sadmac2 | ah. that'll make life easier. | 15:03 |
| sadmac2 | much as I'd love to delete all that code :) | 15:03 |
| mbiebl | my preliminary packages on http://debs.michaelbiebl.de/upstart/ | 15:03 |
| Keybuk | the idea being that people should feel safe about updating to 0.6 now | 15:03 |
| Keybuk | and using it as a stable release | 15:03 |
| Keybuk | while 0.10 is a development release that they can experiment with without worrying | 15:04 |
| mbiebl | had the maintainer scripts updated to support the conffile migration | 15:04 |
| Keybuk | mbiebl: ah, I deliberately didn't do that because 0.3 and 0.6 job files aren't directly compatible | 15:04 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: hehe, I only migrated the ttyS | 15:05 |
| Keybuk | you need to do more than just copy them | 15:05 |
| mbiebl | for the same reason I on rm the old if unmodified | 15:05 |
| Keybuk | what do you if modified? | 15:05 |
| mbiebl | keep a copy | 15:05 |
| Keybuk | in /etc/event.d ? | 15:05 |
| mbiebl | yeah | 15:06 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: did we ever increase the strictness of the 0.6 job format? does having two start stanzas still just silently take the second one? | 15:06 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: yes | 15:06 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: yes to which question :P | 15:07 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: what you said is true; the last of all dup stanzas is used | 15:07 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: unfortunate, but not much to be done about it. | 15:07 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: regarding the merge: I guess you should also add Conflicts | 15:08 |
| Keybuk | why unfortunate? | 15:08 |
| Keybuk | mbiebl: already did that ;) | 15:08 |
| mbiebl | oh, not in -1 | 15:08 |
| mbiebl | which I looked at | 15:08 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: it should at least give a warning. That behavior is almost certainly not reflecting what the user intended when they wrote the job definition. | 15:08 |
| mbiebl | And why the Provides? | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: it followed what most other configs do | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | e.g. | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | SomeOption on | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | SomeOption off | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | SomeOption on | 15:09 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: if most other configs jumped off a bridge... :P | 15:09 |
| Keybuk | sadmac2: I'd push you off ;) | 15:11 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: touche | 15:12 |
| Keybuk | I'd give you a portal gun first | 15:12 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: potential release name: "Thank you for helping us help you help us all." | 15:13 |
| * sadmac2 <3 GlaDoS | 15:13 | |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: about upstart-job | 15:23 |
| mbiebl | imho it makes sense to map force-reload to restart | 15:24 |
| mbiebl | I also strip away any leading SK?? from the basename | 15:25 |
| mbiebl | so it can be started e.g. by /etc/rc2.d/S50cups | 15:26 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: Idea is, that packages can potentially start now to ship upstart job files | 15:27 |
| mbiebl | without strictly having to got from bottom up | 15:27 |
| mbiebl | e.g. cups could ship a job file today | 15:28 |
| mbiebl | which then is not started by events | 15:28 |
| mbiebl | but by sysv | 15:28 |
| mbiebl | which imho is pretty neat, as we don't to strictly synchronize when to convert which packages | 15:29 |
| sadmac2 | Keybuk: did you look at the state transfer patch? | 15:33 |
| mbiebl | Keybuk: I think you can drop the Provides from the Ubuntu package | 17:16 |
| mbiebl | and I also think it doesn't make sense to ship the nih-dbus-binding tool man page | 17:16 |
| Keybuk | mbiebl: we need those in Ubuntu the way that ubuntu-meta works | 17:17 |
| mbiebl | how's that? | 17:17 |
| Keybuk | ubuntu is installed by packages that depend on others | 17:18 |
| Keybuk | ubuntu-minimal depends on those packages provided | 17:18 |
| mbiebl | hm, doesn't the latest ubuntu-minimal not only depend on upstart? | 17:18 |
| Keybuk | latest yes, but not when upgrading from jaunty to karmic when released | 17:19 |
| Keybuk | the installed one will still depend on upstart-compat-sysv | 17:19 |
| Keybuk | providing it makes upgrade ordering easier :) | 17:19 |
| mbiebl | so update-manager will fall over if those provides are not there? | 17:20 |
| Keybuk | no | 17:20 |
| Keybuk | it'll just get pessimal ordering | 17:20 |
| mbiebl | what's pessimal? | 17:22 |
| mbiebl | ok, seems to be the opposite of optimal ;-) | 17:24 |
| ion | keybuk: I’m thinking of fixing some typos etc. in the 0.6.0 manpages. How are the lines wrapped? I don’t seem to find a consistent maximum line width or equivalent. | 18:36 |
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