[00:07] wo someone confirmed the AWN bug [00:07] cool [00:07] ops === soliva_ is now known as Bmw1000c [00:08] cool. [00:11] Bmw1000c: theres a post going on about it [00:11] i pasted the link to the bug to get it out there [00:11] i find it funny how forum users stick to forums and not irc, huge communication breakdown there haha [00:12] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1209542 [00:13] * BUGabundo doesn't like forums [00:13] IRC++ [00:13] the [near] instant response is rather better than forums :) [00:14] roger [00:14] seems more info to trade on here anyway... [00:14] ack, update-manager is doing its silly "busy" cursor thing again >:( [00:15] The stupid thing is, I can't look at the updates, but I can click "install updates" >_< [00:15] Anybody know how I ought to debug this? [00:17] nope :( [00:17] off to a bbq for some good eats and some brews [00:17] peace all [00:19] thanks billybigrigger [00:20] hmm, Staples had that funky touchstyk-only laptop. [00:20] Sony one. [00:20] Netbook-ish. [00:20] Screen was 1600x768. [00:21] wo [00:21] http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2w39e9j&s=3 <-- thing. [00:22] The updates themselves are not clickable, so I can't see the changes etc. :> [00:22] aptitude safe-upgrade? [00:23] $ sudo aptitude safe-upgrade [00:23] try it [00:23] well, sure, I can do something else... but the point is update-manager is broken :) [00:23] Twigathy: or some update is [00:23] my latop is a total mess [00:23] I can click 'install updates' and update-manager will correctly install the updates. It's just the list is greyed out and unselectable. [00:23] python broken everywhere [00:24] FF broken [00:24] fail :/ [00:24] PA broken [00:24] Compiz broken [00:24] kmail broken [00:24] my firefox and pulse are working (as far as you can say pulse works... *stabstabstab*) [00:26] even my mouse scroll is broken [00:27] :(( [00:27] :S [00:27] damn scroll button died today [00:27] oh, not a software issue then c_c [00:30] sup [00:30] can someone help me fix dpkg? [00:30] it won't upgrade. [00:31] LLStarks: pastebin: $ sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade [00:31] thanks [00:35] if i do that, i'll kill my upstart and my system [00:35] why would it ? [00:35] it did earlier today [00:35] also, consider this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/397498 [00:35] Ubuntu bug 397498 in dpkg "package dpkg 1.14.24ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] [00:35] at least it should output what's wrong so we can see [00:36] i posted my output there [00:36] also, don't tell update their upstart yet. [00:37] it's not ready. [00:37] Installed: 1.15.3.1ubuntu1 [00:37] Candidate: 1.15.3.1ubuntu1 [00:37] are you on karmic??? [00:37] yes [00:37] you can't be correct [00:37] that's a very old package [00:38] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/397498/comments/7 [00:38] Ubuntu bug 397498 in dpkg "package dpkg 1.14.24ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] [00:38] that's my output [00:38] I'm reading it now [00:38] does this still happen after reboot? [00:38] yes [00:38] for the past few days [00:38] unfixed [00:39] very strange [00:39] looks like a bad combo of packaged [00:39] *packages [00:39] and i obviously can't purge then install [00:39] what does safe-upgrade in simulation mode tell you ? [00:41] nothing useful [00:41] in apt-get or aptitude [00:41] the package is corrupt and multiple people agree [00:41] that's all there is to it [00:41] ok [00:41] then you may have to redownload it manually and force install it [00:42] even on recovery console, if need be [00:42] rc didn't help [00:42] even in etroot [00:42] *netroot [00:44] chroot? [00:45] tried [00:45] the package doesn't take. period. [00:45] and i am afraid to reboot right now because of the upstart updates [00:46] $10 bucks it won't boot [00:46] ehhe [00:46] worse case scenary: re-install [00:46] i had to chroot from a liveusb to fix [00:46] it's not fun [00:47] such is the bleeding edge :) [00:47] LLStarks: Twigathy is right [00:47] running a devel version you must be ready for breakage [00:47] thank science that i've picked up all these recovery tricks since i discovered ubuntu during the feisty dev cycle [00:48] eheh [00:48] we all have [00:48] yarr, I've learnt quite a bit about How Stuff Works just based on random package breakage (Usually my own fault - I run a heck of a weird system c_c) [00:49] Twigathy: what does it have so special? [00:49] NFS root, for a start. It's also got a very very minimal set of packages installed. pulse is hacked up to run just as single user. /boot is on a partition which is kept unmounted most of the time... [00:50] Lots of potential for breakage every time I hit the magic 'update' button :D [00:50] eheheeheheh [01:16] * BUGabundo off to bed [01:16] * cwillu pokes BUGabundo [02:14] I'm wondering where my "Login Window" Button from gnome-control-center went? [02:15] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/395299 [02:15] Ubuntu bug 395299 in gdm "gdm 2.26 has no graphical configuration tool" [Wishlist,Triaged] [02:15] akio: ^ [02:16] wow [02:16] what about gdm.conf? [02:19] I'm not sure, I'd assume its still honored [02:22] handy hint: return GDM to login screen, then switch to a TTY and: [02:22] DISPLAY=:0 sudo -u gdm xterm [02:29] DanaG, what does that do? [02:30] open up an xterm as the gdm user? [02:30] yeah. [02:30] Then you can open gconf-editor, or gnome-appearance-properties. [02:30] You can even set the "settings-manager" thing to do media (i.e. volume-up-down) keys. [02:30] is that a bug? [02:31] Whaddayamean? [02:31] It's not any sort of vulnerability, because you have to have sudoer permissions to do that, anyway. [02:31] nevermind, I didn't read slowly [02:33] Handy hint: set theme and wallpaper the same as your desktop -- then it'll be extra nifty-spiffy. [02:34] That doesn't work for those of us who use Desktop Drapes. :< [02:35] I suppose you use a tiling window manager started by startx? [02:35] Drapes? [02:35] Whazzat? [02:35] (sorry, I just like saying "zz" instead of "t's th". [02:37] I was wondering how I would do an automatic login [02:37] I didnt see a gdm.conf in /etc/gdm [02:38] wait no [02:38] * akio whines too much [02:38] I also dislike some aspects of the new GDM. [02:38] Can't just type my name, for one. [02:39] I don't share my computer anyway [02:39] no like that [02:39] I have a separate firefox profile for my wife [02:40] ok, it was still in the locate db, but it isn't currently in /etc/gdm [02:40] it moved or is no longer there [02:41] /etc/dbus-1/system.d/gdm.conf ? [02:43] hmm, check /etc/gdm/custom.conf [02:45] but I don't know what to but in there, I'm checking the horses mouth [02:47] http://www.perturb.org/display/entry/812/ [02:47] ... but put them in custom.conf. [02:58] I did that and it didn't take effect. [02:59] Ahh the details [02:59] in the daemon section [03:11] that page did it [03:11] it seems like gdm gets skipped altogether, I like this [03:14] I love the intel optimizations in UNR [03:15] * DanaG wants to see if the updated thingamajobber (er, upstart) makes stuff boot faster. [03:15] I thought upstart has been around for a while now [03:19] i was looking forward to switching my netbook to lpia in karmic but they dropped the atom support patches in gcc and switched it to pentium-m arch to support some crappy celeron netbooks :( [03:23] Fail! [03:24] Now Karmic won't boot. [03:24] Stops at "running scripts/init_bottom" [03:24] Or rather, stops after printing it. CPU backtrace shows both cores doing cpu_idle. [03:34] Well, glad I have my jaunty and karmic sharing a home... it's trivially easy to just go and boot the other one. [03:43] ah, fixed it... had to upgrade upstart. [03:43] upstart-compat-sysv got removed despite upstart not upgrading. [03:45] ah yuck, upgraded meta without upgrading upstart then? how did you do the upgrade? [03:45] Aptitude. =þ [03:45] Looks like they got the conflicts right in one direction, but not in the other. Or something like that. [03:45] aptitude upgrade? [03:45] manual UI, shift-U. [03:46] It suggested leaving upstart, rather than removing upstart-logd. =þ [03:47] yuck, glad i use apt-get dist-upgrade then :D [03:47] Any idea if virtualbox 3.0 is going to be included in Karmic? [03:47] I just read it supports DirectX hardware acceleration, I'm blown away. [03:47] i'm sure it will be [03:47] When is the package freeze for Karmic? [03:48] you can get it here for now https://edge.launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/virtualbox [03:48] september something? [03:48] Sarvatt: Oh, there's plenty of time, great! Haven't been so excited about an Ubuntu release in a long time. [03:48] I'm going to go look for Karmic screenshots. I haven't installed it yet. [03:49] I tried it, the d3d didn't work. [03:49] oR rather, not well at all. [03:49] Many missing extensions. [03:49] thats when the freeze for xorg drivers is at least, imagine its the same [03:49] Yeah, I'm still figuring I'm going to have to make a Windows host, Ubuntu guest if I want to play games. [03:50] But, that that's even available. Unbelievable. Never thought it would happen 15 years ago when I started using Linux. [03:51] oh wow virtualbox 3.0.2 released today [03:51] musta been a bad bug [03:52] Ha, they stayed with the orange, but made it not so 1980's looking. [03:52] I don't get what everbody is talking about "nice as a Mac UI". Is there any article I can read somewhere where they explain what those claims are about? Or, is it all hype? [03:54] anyone have any experiences with 790GX 780G or nvidia 8200 chipsets under karmic? trying to decide on a new mobo and I dont know if any of those have problems in linux right now [03:55] whatcha talking about levander? [03:56] Grrr, scroll up, don't wanna re-type. [03:56] kubuntu is probably what you're looking for if you want that type of UI, gnome doesnt really try to look like the other OSes [03:57] i dont know what you mean by "they stayed with orange" or "nice as a mac UI" [03:57] are you talking about ubuntu in general? or some app? [03:57] Sarvatt: hold on, let me find a link to all the Mac OS hype. [03:57] I saw some Karmic screenshots, it was all darker orange instead of the now bright-light orange. [03:57] That's what I mean stayed with the orange. [03:59] http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.3-rc2.php -- that probably looks closer to a mac than gnome [04:00] I tried KDE a while back. Wasn't impressed. There were like 3 different applications you used to change the look. One for thems, another for icons, etc. In GNOME that's all in one place. And, the Start Menu on KDE, that always reminded me too much of Windows. [04:00] After I noticed those 2 things, I uninstalled. [04:00] yup I dont like it either for similar reasons :D [04:01] I just don't like how everything starts with k [04:01] makes the menus hard to read [04:01] lots of GNOME stuff starts with 'g'. [04:01] levander, most of it doesn't [04:01] at least, not the menu names [04:02] things look too cluttered in KDE for me [04:02] and it's not Gthis Gthat Geverything Gtexteditor [04:02] It's this and that and gedit. [04:02] They use application file names, not like regular English names in the menus? [04:02] DE is so cluttered, it's not even funny [04:02] *KDE. [04:02] Ha, yeah, that is annoying. [04:02] gedit is the only one I can think of, and it's actually a pronounceable word :p [04:02] gpointing-device-settings! [04:02] oh, and now gparted. [04:02] lol [04:03] there, two :p [04:03] I can never find it when I need it... it was previously "partition editor". [04:03] And, it's called 'Text Editor' in the menus like it should be. Having gedit in there would be annoying.. [04:03] Kyourmom [04:03] s/mom/face/ [04:04] gnome-shell is quite nice, if only I could adjust sizes on things so it wasnt so huge on this netbook screen [04:04] I'm not really a fan of gnome-shell. It looks kinda ugly IMO. [04:05] It has lots of potential, but as of now, it's kinda ugly. [04:05] if I want a terminal window, I keep 8 of them open on my desktop like I already do :p [04:05] I just use tabbed terminals. [04:05] yeah i'll probably end up just using mutter for karmic, love clutter GL compositing without having to use compiz and succomb to all the bugs it causes :D [04:05] mutter does have lots of potential. [04:06] Can you replace metacity directly with mutter? [04:06] yup using it right now [04:07] Does GNOME Do work fine on it? If it does, I might switch to mutter. [04:07] yeah it does [04:07] Is it just me... or is this a mangled patch? [04:07] http://www.mentby.com/Group/linux-kernel/patch-hpfallc-improvements-thoughts.html [04:07] I haven't even tried gnome-shell, because I don't like the idea of something non-customizable. [04:08] Sarvatt: Would there happen to be a mutter PPA? [04:09] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa [04:09] was just about to link it when you asked [04:09] You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. [04:09] just mutter --replace works [04:09] mutter mutter mutter... say, what is mutter? [04:09] Metacity done in clutter. [04:10] weird [04:10] that sounds cool though [04:11] its metacity with 3d compositing instead of the crappy old xrender metacity compositing [04:11] 3d compositing backend rather [04:12] Anyone know how to speed up the reading database junk. [04:12] It takes *froever* here, though I do have nearly 200,000 files. [04:12] what database junk? [04:13] e4defrag /var/cache/ ? :D [04:13] !g mutter [04:13] Sorry, I don't know anything about g mutter [04:13] dang, no googlebot. [04:16] Oof, mutter really fucked up. [04:16] It crashed, and didn't restart metacity. [04:16] Er, compiz. [04:16] it's not responsible for restarting another window manager [04:16] SeveredCross: watch your language [04:16] I figured it would do something like that [04:16] that's what your session manager is fo [04:16] for [04:16] i dont use compiz, it replaces metacity fine at least [04:16] My bad. [04:17] i launch it from a VT with DISPLAY=:0 mutter --replace [04:17] Sarvatt: Hmm. [04:17] I would try that, except when I switch to a VT, I don't get a VT, I get a borked version of my X display. [04:17] if it starts it will restart metacity again for you at least when it stops [04:18] Odd. It's not restarting compiz. Oh well. [04:19] Aha, now it's started. [04:19] But it's a bit slow. [04:20] And it crashed. [04:20] Oh well. [04:43] ugh, pulseaudio flat-volumes is damned confusing. [04:45] Not to mention that it breaks Totem. [04:45] And that earcandy thing, too. [04:46] Makes it go lloOOOOUUUUUUDDDDD OH GOD MY EARS! [04:47] It also breaks my LFE. [04:47] :| [04:47] I say, if I have my app at 70% volume, and move it to a card that's at 50% volume... I don't want the card's volume to change! [04:47] I want it to be 0.7 * 0.5. [05:19] huh.. i must be blind because i swear it just kicked me back to grub instead of restarting doing a restart from gnome.. [05:25] Sarvatt, you missed that checkin? hal now simply writes 'b' to /proc/sysqr-trigger to reboot [05:25] Sarvatt, the rationale was that any properly written application should have their state in a recoverable form anyway, and so this will flush out any remaining bugs in the system [05:25] * cwillu does his best to maintain a straight face [05:27] Oh yeah, what's screwed-up about the upstart packaging: new version has BREAKS, but does _not_ have REPLACES. [05:27] ohh that would be extra fun for people using ext4 too, they should backport that on jaunty :) [05:28] * cwillu blinks [05:28] * cwillu stabs Sarvatt with a "have you fixed my crappy acer's suspend yet?" stick [05:29] oh yeahzz, does the gnome-shell PPA add a separate login item, or just replace? [05:31] ugh, "mutter" effects are ugly. [05:31] If I click a taskbar button to minimize a thing... I expect it to at least slightly move towards the taskbar in the animation. [05:31] Otherwise it feels entirely too disconnected. [05:31] DanaG, but the taskbar entry was already there, no? it' [05:31] Oh, and closing is a horizonatl squish. [05:32] Reminds me of when Vista was in beta, and windows actually seemingly "bubbled" up. [05:32] Back then, it actually "overshot" the size before plopping down to normal. Made me a bit dizzy, in fact. [05:34] Imagine if your doors randomly opened from the middle, instead of from the knob where you grabbed them. That's the sort of feeling I get. [05:35] wow the depends on upstart are enough to make my head spin trying to follow how its handled by the different things :D [05:36] Pre-Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, sysvinit-utils, sysv-rc, initscripts [05:36] Replaces: sysvinit, upstart-compat-sysv, startup-tasks, system-services [05:36] Conflicts: sysvinit, upstart-compat-sysv, startup-tasks, system-services [05:36] Provides: upstart-compat-sysv, startup-tasks, system-services [05:36] oh, and what's with notify-osd showing my bubble for 10 full seconds? [05:38] you use gnome-shell --replace or mutter --replace [05:39] guess you could do it through xephyr but i dont even build xephyr in the xserver i'm using [05:39] hah, when I ran the xserver one, I got 3 things: xeyes, xterm, and one other thing I can't remember. That's it. [05:39] er, xephyr one. [05:40] http://pastebin.com/f3b969e7a [05:40] that's with -r [05:41] you dont have cogl installed? [05:41] What's that? [05:41] Whatever it was, it wasn't a dependency. [05:42] hmm wonder what it is, its working fine here just tested it [05:42] I got it from here: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa [05:44] install libclutter-0.9-dev? [05:44] weird that it needs the dev package [05:44] !find cogl [05:44] File cogl found in libclutter-0.8-dev, libclutter-0.9-dev, python-clutter [05:45] yeah 0.9-dev [05:46] here's it in xephyr: http://pastebin.com/f50e7e0fa [05:47] oh, now it works in -r. [05:47] Ugh, it sucks. [05:47] I click activities, I expect a menu, not laaaaag and OH HECK WHAT IS IT DOING? [05:47] Try clicking it a bunch of times in rapid succession. =þ [05:48] As I do, when I don't see a menu start appearing. [05:48] There's a lag of 3/4 to 1 second. [05:49] (ugh, and taking away all configurability of panel applets... is akin to a "sin". [05:49] s/a sin/Apple/ [05:49] oh, and desktops have a "+", but not a "-". [05:51] ok i wasnt crazy, it just happened again.. flood of error messages about rc init stopping and continuing after it disconnected the system bus then it went back to grub [05:51] ya get it working DanaG? [05:51] yeah. [05:52] you missed my bit of a rant. =þ [05:53] (09:47:01 PM) DanaG: oh, now it works in -r. (09:47:17 PM) DanaG: Ugh, it sucks. (09:47:37 PM) DanaG: I click activities, I expect a menu, not laaaaag and -- HEY, WHAT IS IT DOING? (09:47:51 PM) DanaG: Try clicking it a bunch of times in rapid succession. =þ (09:48:00 PM) DanaG: As I do, when I don't see a menu start appearing. (09:48:19 PM) DanaG: There's a lag of 3/4 to 1 second. (09:49:01 PM) DanaG: [05:54] eww, its not that bad here [05:54] and i'm on a crappy netbook [05:54] And I have a "beefy" computer. [05:54] It just sits there doing nothing for like 1/2 to 3/4 second. [05:54] ugh, no tab-complete on alt-f2? [05:54] ... and no history. [05:55] what type of video are you on? === Sarvatt_ is now known as Sarvatt [05:55] ATI. [05:55] fglrx, on RV635. [05:56] wouldn't be surprised if it was something crappy between clutter and fglrx [05:56] yay something to look forward to if i get a 790GX motherboard :D [05:56] 790GX... what IGP does that have? [05:56] 3300 [05:57] Oh, and I load compiz... and everything's GONE! [05:57] Even the alt-f2 stuff. [05:57] Evil, I tell you. [05:57] it starts metacity when you close gnome-shell, did you stop that too? [05:57] I just did compiz --replace [05:57] to see what it would do. [05:57] The answer is: breaks everything. [05:57] Because the gnome-shell doesn't play nicely with anything else. [05:58] sounds like compiz --replace when you're using metacity compositing too :D [05:58] It runs off and hides. [05:58] No, that's different. [05:58] Compiz loaded, and works. [05:58] just control-c then control-c again and load your compiz [05:58] But the alt-f2 to bring up a menu is not working. [05:58] And all the buttons are gone. [05:58] Ah, just had to re-open gnome-panel. [05:59] The panel opens the alt-f2 thingy, not the WM? Odd. [05:59] oh it must be how you killed gnome-shell [05:59] oh, and gnome-shell in xephyr still gives me just xterm, xeyes, and xlogo. [05:59] it reloads gnome-panel and crap when you kill gnome-shell (or its supposed to at least) [05:59] no clue on that one, i dont even have xephyr built on my xserver [05:59] Still, I'd expect to see the gnome-shell stuff on top of compiz. [06:00] compiz is a window manager... the shell thingy should be a desktop manager. [06:00] no way [06:00] "Hey, you kids, get off my lawn!" -- where "lawn" is "desktop management" [06:00] gnome-shell and compiz completely arent compatable [06:00] I will never give up compiz. [06:00] mutter is the window manager for gnome shell [06:00] gnome shell replaces gnome panel and everything [06:01] Sounds like a not-modular-enough design. [06:01] its a plugin for mutter [06:01] Oh, so the desktop stuff is a part of the WM itself? That's even weirder. [06:02] heh, I still get just xterm, xeyes, and xlogo, when running it in xephyr. [06:02] yeah and they are pretty dead set against decoupling it so there probably isnt going to be much option with compiz post 3.0 [06:03] So then, screw gnome-shell. [06:04] I've always been taught that coupling stuff that tightly is bad. [06:04] Bad style, bad karma. =þ [06:04] Xlib: extension "ATIFGLRXDRI" missing on display ":29.0". [06:04] XD [06:05] what happens when you just run gnome-shell without replace? [06:05] I get a xephyr with xterm, xeyes, and xlogo. That's it. [06:05] ahhh [06:05] you need dri, i guess fglrx doesnt work in xephyr [06:06] oddly enough, glxinfo reports everything same as on the host. [06:06] waitaminute [06:06] that WAS the host I ran it in. [06:06] =þ [06:06] what xserver are you running? [06:06] the nested, or the host? [06:06] theres no xephyr in xorg-testing if you're using that so you'd be using the old karmic one [06:07] 2:1.6.1.901-2ubuntu3 [06:07] random: http://git.fishsoup.net/cgit/xserver/diff/?id=5af73f98c46dfe5640185ca90feb20c39c6e06fa [06:08] where did you get 2ubuntu3 from? [06:08] thats xserver-xorg-core? [06:09] 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status [06:09] so... I have no idea. [06:09]