[00:25] <slangasek> I don't understand the purpose of ubuntu-devel being moderated, if "please put a browser on the Linux kernel and call it Ubuntu" makes the cut
[00:27] <pochu> I guess it's psychological
[00:28] <pochu> many people don't probably mail -devel because it's moderated :)
[00:28] <slangasek> perhaps
[00:31] <ScottK> slangasek: Maybe someone should ask Barry Warsaw for a "No, send this to devel-discuss" button for the moderator in mailman.
[00:55] <Keybuk> slangasek: indeed
[00:55] <Keybuk> clearly a browser on top of the Linux kernel should be called "ChromeOS"
[01:50] <slangasek> Keybuk: that's *GNU*/ChromeOS
[02:02] <ScottK> Back will it have emacs?
[02:02] <ScottK> Back/But
[02:12] <directhex> ScottK, *insert tasteless yet topical joke involving emacs virgins here*?
[02:12] <ScottK> Yeah, well I figured people would get that without me having to actually say it.
[02:42] <billybigrigger> are we going to end up with packagekit in karmic?
[02:46] <directhex> i never got the jumping up & down people do about packagekit
[02:47]  * ScottK neither.  We're using kpackagekit in Kubuntu and it's really unsuitable.
[02:48] <emma> oh yeah?
[02:48] <ScottK> Yeah.
[02:48] <wgrant> ScottK: How does that work with debconf?
[02:49] <ScottK> wgrant: It doesn't.  That's one chunk of the unsuitableness.
[02:49] <wgrant> ScottK: It's not the primary package manager, then?
[02:49] <ScottK> wgrant: It is.
[02:49] <wgrant> .... huh?
[02:50] <ScottK> Our choices were Adept which was still beta and only barely being developed, kpackagekit which had some people behind it, or no GUI package management.
[02:51] <ScottK> Personally, I'd have gone with choice 1 or choice 3, but it wasn't my decision.
[02:54] <ScottK> It doesn't do any cryptographic verification of packages either (this may get fixed in Karmic).
[02:54] <ScottK> It crashes a lot.
[02:54] <ScottK> It doesn't notify about new packages reliably.
[02:55] <ScottK> There's no way to do the equivalent of dist-upgrade.
[02:55] <ScottK> Other than that, it's not too bad.
[02:57] <wgrant> Um, how did it get away with not verifying signatures?
[02:57] <wgrant> That sounds like about the worst possible kind of bug.
[02:57] <ScottK> Well Adept 3 didn't do it either, so it wasn't a regression.
[02:58] <ScottK> (Adept 2, the KDE3 one we had in Hardy did do this)
[02:58] <ScottK> If it sounds like I'm grumpy about it, then your on track.
[02:58] <wgrant> I'm very scared now.
[02:59] <ScottK> Yeah, well except for this netbook that I'm about to reinstall, I've never installed a package using it.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> slangasek: i don't think new subscriptions get moderated :(  perhaps they should
[08:08] <tracyanne> I'm looking for help to create a custom Ubuntu installer, that will create 3 partitions by default root swap home instead of the standard root swap that is the default Ubuntu install
[09:06] <cjwatson> (I answered tracyanne's question on #ubuntu-installer)
[09:29] <didrocks> jdstrand: thanks for merging it :)
[10:23] <jetienne> q. i am building livecd, building the md5sum.txt consumes time, can i skip it if i am ready to give up the possibility to check the cd
[11:03] <Keybuk> slangasek: GNU/kLinux/ChromeOS
[11:54] <ogra> geez ... upstart fails totally random places if i try to build it
[12:11] <ogra> hmm and gcc-snapshot ftbfs on armel too ... bad
[12:11]  * ogra tries to build it himself
[12:20] <Sarvatt_> see you in 48 hours :)
[12:20] <Sarvatt_> oh just snapshot
[12:21] <ogra> well, 4.4 definately has issues, i want to see if they go away with snapshot
[12:21] <ogra> and my armel build system here is as fast as the buildds ...
[12:23] <Sarvatt_> is it failing making the lzma debs, or during the build/test runs?
[12:24] <ogra> its segfaulting during builds, sometimes it spills "internal error" during the tests ... totally random
[12:24] <ogra> bug 398403
[12:24] <Sarvatt_> how much memory do those builders have?
[12:24] <ogra> 512M
[12:24] <Sarvatt_> (just curious)
[12:25] <Sarvatt_> i get random failures compiling gcc in 512MB on my OpenVZ VPS
[12:26] <ogra> well, i didnt get failures compiling gcc :)
[12:26] <ogra> i did get failures compiling upstart
[12:26] <ogra> gcc segfaulting or dying with internal error
[12:26] <Sarvatt_> never could figure out why, can compile it from upstream source fine but rebuilding the packages fails in random spots
[12:27] <cjwatson> jetienne: yes
[12:27] <jetienne> cjwatson: thanks
[12:28] <Sarvatt_> thats exactly the error it fails out with too not that it says alot
[12:29] <Sarvatt_> gcc: Internal error: Killed (program cc1) that is, not failing in that specific spot.. some kind of ulimit problem maybe?
[12:29] <ogra> we'll see if it goes away if building with -snapshot
[12:29] <ogra> (once i have built that :) )
[12:30] <ogra> well, i doubt that since i also get random segfaults
[13:01] <ogra_> grr
[13:01] <ogra_> gcc -c  -g -fkeep-inline-functions -DIN_GCC   -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wcast-qual -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-format-attribute -pedantic -Wno-long-long -Wno-variadic-macros -Wno-overlength-strings -Wold-style-definition -Wc++-compat -fno-common  -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/gcc -I../../src/gcc/. -I../../src/gcc/../include -I../../src/gcc/../libcpp/include  -I../../src/g
[13:01] <ogra_> cc/../libdecnumber -I../../src/gcc/../libdecnumber/dpd -I../libdecnumber    genrtl.c -o genrtl.o
[13:01] <ogra_> cc1: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[13:01] <ogra_> Please submit a full bug report,
[13:02] <cjwatson> isn't that basically classic gcc FAQ symptoms of bad RAM?
[13:03] <cjwatson> particularly when intermittently reproducible
[13:04] <cjwatson> or I suppose that you're short on memory
[13:04] <cjwatson> http://www.bitwizard.nl/sig11/
[13:05] <cjwatson> I mean, obviously segfaults are often programming errors. But intermittent random-appearing segfaults in something like gcc that has known input and processes it in a deterministic way ... well, go figure
[13:05] <cjwatson> a gcc bug would not be the first thing I'd suspect for that, myself
[13:29] <pochu> pitti: hi, what space do you need for the ddebs archive? ISTR it was around 5GB/arch/release, counting main+restricted+universe+multiverse?
[13:41] <gimpuzmani> Hello
[13:42] <gimpuzmani> I want to interview with Ubuntu developer
[13:42] <gimpuzmani> for e-magazine
[13:48] <pochu> pitti: hmm, seems to be 12GB for main+universe on karmic/i386 ?
[15:44] <geser> jdstrand: re bug 398445: it's already fixed but the fix didn't land yet on edge
[15:44] <geser> jdstrand: getPublishedSources() OOPSes currently for every synced package
[18:19] <jdstrand> geser: ok, cool. thanks :)
[18:26] <Carroarmato0> is it normal for an Ubuntu server to ask me to reboot the system juist when I logged in?
[18:26] <Carroarmato0> do I have to worry? :|
[18:39] <|Baby|> anyone with a Nvidia graphic card might want to help me test a game package?
[18:39] <tgpraveen2> Carroarmato0: wrong channel
[18:39] <tgpraveen2> try ubuntu-server or something
[18:40] <Carroarmato0> tgpraveen2, sorry about that
[20:33] <laga> ping pitti - hey. do you know if devicekit-power is already used in karmic? i'm wondering because i don't see support for quirks in the code
[20:35] <ion> i   ubuntu-desktop      Depends gnome-power-manager, i A gnome-power-manager Depends devicekit-power (>= 009)
[20:36] <laga> ion: yeah. but i think HAL is still used for some stuff (or at least it can be used by devicekit-power.. from what i read on their mailing list). so i'm not sure if the quirks are available or not
[22:24] <realo> hiho
[22:25] <realo> we develop http://dooble.sf.net --- currently making the linux release
[22:26] <realo> the idea is, to maybe later add an linux kernel, so to have the browser as the gui
[22:26] <realo> anyone insterested to join or help to create a deb. file for the linux release?
[22:28] <pochu> a browser on top of a kernel? that sounds familiar :)
[22:28] <mok0> realo: no one here right now, probably better to post a message to udd
[22:29] <realo> uud?
[22:30] <realo> yes a browser on top of a kernel
[22:30] <realo> dooble has a desktop integrated for that
[22:30] <pam> What is the best way to work on a merge issue when a package is assigned to Ubuntu Core Developers? (to check we are not duplicating work)
[22:31] <mok0> pam, contact last uploader
[22:31] <pam> mok0: ok. Thanks
[22:43] <lifeless> realo: 'udd' == 'ubuntu distro development' list, I think
[22:44] <Laney> ubuntu-devel-discuss
[22:44] <pam> cjwatson: Do you know if anyone is looking at the gfxboot patches for syslinux (merge issue)? Not sure https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/270822 is the official bug. Otherwise, I'd be happy to give it a shot (we already talked a bit about it with hpa).
[22:44] <ion> (offtopic) realo: Dooble seems to contain RetroMessenger, which seems to be based on RetroShare. The last time i looked, RetroShare was horribly insecure. It used an ancient version OpenSSL (∴ many unpatched security holes) with a RetroShare-specific patch (that appears to be a pain to rebase against a newer version of OpenSSL).
[22:45] <lifeless> Laney: ah thanks
[22:47] <cjwatson> pam: probably not for karmic
[22:47] <cjwatson> pam: seems like a heck of a lot of work in a critical component, would rather do it at the start of a release
[22:48] <cjwatson> pam: if somebody wants to do it, I guess I can review it, although I expect that reviewing it might actually be as much work as just doing it myself ;-)
[22:48] <pam> heh
[22:48] <cjwatson> pam: although it *is* good news that the gfxboot patches are merged upstream
[22:48] <loois> is it possible to upgrade the kernel + intel drivers to jaunty without all the other upgrades?
[22:49] <loois> oops maybe i'm in the wrong channel :(
[22:49] <cjwatson> pam: so, I don't have time, but feel free to suggest patches in the form of a diff against the current package in Debian unstable. Please test them with current CD images
[22:49] <pam> cjwatson: getting rid of the old suse patch would be great
[22:49] <pam> okay
[22:49] <pam> cjwatson: Just wanted to double check you are not actively working on it right now ;)
[22:50] <cjwatson> I am not
[22:50] <cjwatson> I've commented on the bug. Depressed as usual about bugabundo's rather direct attitude
[22:51] <maco> is there a mini iso for karmic yet?
[22:51] <pam> Thanks for the comment. Will ping hpa about it as soon as he is back.
[22:51] <cjwatson> maco: always was
[22:51] <maco> apparently cdimage is not the right place to look...got a hint for me?
[22:51] <cjwatson> pam: why hpa? I know he's upstream, but I wouldn't expect him to be involved in Ubuntu packaging
[22:52] <cjwatson> oh, no links on cdimage/netboot/, bah
[22:52] <cjwatson> maco: look at /netboot/jaunty/ on cdimage, do the obvious URL substitution :-)
[22:52] <cjwatson> I'll sort out cdimage now
[22:52] <maco> ok
[22:53] <cjwatson> oh, actually
[22:53] <cjwatson> maco: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/karmic/ does exist, it's just not linked from /netboot/
[22:53] <maco> yeah, i see that
[22:53] <pam> cjwatson: we talked about reducing the amount of changes between distro and upstream a while ago. Just want his take again.
[22:53] <cjwatson> (fixeD)
[22:53] <maco> i keep trying to look in cdimage.ubuntu.com/karmic/
[22:53] <maco> thanks
[22:53] <cjwatson> pam: that's usually best done by forwarding patches :-)
[22:54] <pam> Forwarding? Meaning forward-porting your patches or submitting them upstram?
[22:54] <pam> +e
[22:55] <cjwatson> the latter
[22:55] <cjwatson> what I mean is, there's little point in agreeing some kind of joint position statement with upstream that we think we should be shipping the same thing :-P
[22:55] <cjwatson> developers are practical people - just send patches around if you want to get things in sync
[22:56] <pam> Yeah, IIRC he didn't like the overall approach and had ideas about improving that.
[22:56] <cjwatson> anyhow, I think the only patches we have against syslinux aside from gfxboot are pure packaging, not anything to do with upstream
[22:57] <pam> That should be easy.
[22:57] <cjwatson> so if gfxboot exists upstream as a module now then there's nothing else to be done with hpa
[22:57] <pam> Anyway, there is a lot of work being done with gsoc this summer (ext4, hdt, ...) and upgrading ubuntu package would really benefit the distro
[22:57] <cjwatson> but it *does* need to be smoke-tested (preferably in at least isolinux and syslinux modes) before just dropping it into Ubuntu
[22:58] <pam> definitively
[22:58] <cjwatson> that should be fairly straightforward for somebody with time who more or less knows their way around; have at it ;-)
[22:58] <pam> heh
[23:05] <realo> bug created: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/398575
[23:06] <cjwatson> pam: (oh, and thanks in advance. not enough hours in the day ...)
[23:07] <pam> cjwatson: You're very welcome.