=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== hggdh_ is now known as hggdh
pittiGood morning06:54
pittisuperm1, hyperair: it's not the keys themselves that aren't working, it's the missing support for backligths in X (that wasn't converted to devkit-power)06:55
pittisuperm1, hyperair: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/devkit-devel/2009-July/000268.html FYI06:55
TheMusoMorning pitti .06:55
pittihey TheMuso06:55
TheMusopitti: I'm attempting to debug that pulse mute volume issue, but haven't got very ar with it yet.06:55
pittiTheMuso: didn't you say it was a local problem only?06:57
pittiI still get it with every boot, haven't dug into that one so far06:57
pittiI plan to reinstall for alpha-3, so I don't care much06:57
TheMusopitti: Well I did a fresh install ona machine today, and instaleld pulse from the PPA. THings seem to be muted until you play some sound, then adjust the volume. Not exactly sure whats going on yet, so I need to do more testing.06:59
didrocksmorning o/07:37
pittihey didrocks07:37
didrocksguten Tag pitti07:37
hyperairpitti: ah i thought it would be something of that kind =\08:08
hyperairpitti: thanks for telling08:08
hyperairpitti: but gpm seems pretty capable of changing the screen brightness when the power supply is disconnected or connected08:09
pittihyperair: that sounds like a gpm bug then08:14
pittiif it just doesn't work with AC attached08:14
pittibonjour seb128!08:39
seb128pitti, guten tag!08:39
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone08:40
pittihey chrisccoulson08:41
didrockshey seb128 and chrisccoulson08:42
pittiseb128: FYI, I'll look at the two gpm sponsoring things08:43
chrisccoulsonhey pitti and didrocks08:45
chrisccoulsondid everyone have a good weekend?08:45
pittiquiet, but relaxing08:45
chrisccoulsonthat's what i like ;)08:45
seb128hello chrisccoulson didrocks08:46
seb128didrocks, thanks for the clutter upload08:46
seb128pitti, ok thanks08:46
chrisccoulsonhey seb12808:46
didrocksseb128: y/w08:47
pittiseb128: taking libxklavier sponsoring, too (also affects gdm, will update my patch there in bzr)08:53
seb128pitti, ok08:53
seb128I didn't notice there was sponsoring yet, I'm looking at yet another gtk update08:53
pittiseb128: btw, new gtk working mostly fine here; only regression is the gtimelog panel applet, it's black now08:54
seb128wait for the new version and tell me if that's still an issue08:54
seb128we got reports about awn and lotus notes being broken08:54
seb128awn should be easy to test I had no clue lotus notes was still being used08:54
pittichrisccoulson: re bug 398579, could you please send this to debian as well? Would be bad if they decide for a different -dev name08:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 398579 in libxklavier "Update to 4.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39857908:55
pitti(sponsoring now)08:55
chrisccoulsonpitti - no problem. did you see dholbach's comment though?08:57
pittichrisccoulson: yes, just answered08:57
chrisccoulsonit is missing a conflicts/replaces08:57
pittiand having one too much :)08:57
chrisccoulsonheh. i probably should have tried installing the -dev package too when testing it;)08:59
pittichrisccoulson: it shouldn't have an actual effect08:59
pittijust looks weird08:59
chrisccoulsonah, ok09:00
pittiquite a few rdepends, so that needs a library transition09:00
pittiI'll fix gdm in bzr09:00
chrisccoulsoni did the update quite late last night when i realised the g-c-c update needed it too09:00
pittithanks for that09:00
chrisccoulsonpitti - if there's no rush, i can help out fixing some of the rdepends, although it'll have to be when i finish work09:01
pittiuploaded; I'll beat it through NEW once it built09:01
pittichrisccoulson: no rush; the gnome stuff will just fix itself with the next gnome update round09:01
pittino need to do extra uploads for those, IMHO09:01
chrisccoulsonthat's ok then :)09:02
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
seb128new GNOME update round being for today09:09
seb128if people are back from gdcs to roll tarballs ;-)09:09
crevette__hey hey seb12809:10
seb128lut crevette___________________09:10
crevette__nto too much sunburns ?09:10
crevette__yeah, I should clean my ______09:10
seb128no, the weather was quite cloudy there09:10
* pitti takes bug 39043709:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 390437 in gnome-menus "Merge with Debian and update to 2.26.2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39043709:12
crevette__seb128, I be happy to help doing some packaging tonight and tomorrow, if my work load duty is not too high09:13
pittijames_w: stop making package updates so much fun with bzr-bd! this is supopsed to be _work_ :)09:13
seb128crevette: cool09:13
crevette__it's been a long time I didn't do some ....09:14
seb128pitti, any clue about bug #398253?09:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 398253 in gdm "gdm doesnt start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39825309:14
pittiseb128: haven't seen that yet09:14
seb128"** (gdm-binary:10980): WARNING ** : Failed to acquire org.gnome.DisplayManager: Connection ":1.23" is not allowed to own the service "org.gnome.DisplayManager" due to security policies in the configuration file"09:14
pittihuh, sounds like a wrong d-bus conf?09:14
seb128could be, but you said you had an issue similar to that when you first tried on karmic09:15
seb128I was wondering if you remember if you changed something to fix the issue09:15
pittiseb128: I rebooted, AFAIK09:15
=== crevette__ is now known as crevette
crevettepitti, did you had a look to the new policykit?09:16
pitticrevette: which kind of "look" are you interested in?09:17
pitticrevette: I plan to do some more migration, yes09:17
pittiI prepared a consolekit upload09:17
pittibut that needs to be done in lockstep with gnome-session and gdm, etc.09:17
pittididn't manage to finish that last Friday09:17
pittiso far only dk-disks is using it, AFAIR09:17
seb128crevette, it's in karmic for a while now09:18
crevettepitti, from a patch I seen I seen a lot of code is removed in applications that use policy, so all the check is done within policykit now09:18
pittiLaney: gnome-menus merge> ugh, what a patch :)09:20
pitticrevette: exactly09:20
pittiapps don't need to talk to the auth agent directly any more09:20
pittichrisccoulson: xklavier NEWed09:26
chrisccoulsonpitti - thanks:)09:27
* chrisccoulson hugs pitti09:27
* pitti hugs back chrisccoulson09:29
pittiLaney: hm, with your gnome-menus, "Add/Remove" moved into the "Others.." submenu; does that need to be fixed in gnome-menus or in gnome-app-install?09:33
pittiLaney: perhaps in debian/patches/09_app_install_entry.patch?09:34
huatsmorning everyone !10:00
coolbhavihi huats10:01
huatscoolbhavi: hey10:01
Laneypitti: let me look10:04
* Laney boots up pc10:04
pittiLaney: (sponsoring bug updated as well)10:04
Laneygot the mail, thanks10:04
seb128lut huats10:05
seb128Laney, nothing like telepathy IRC before stating the computer ;-)10:05
LaneyI wish! (got a Macbook as my laptop)10:06
seb128ah ok ;-)10:06
huatsseb128: o/10:07
huatsseb128: so how was GCDS ?10:07
Laneyguess I need to test gnome-menus with a new user eh10:13
seb128huats, very good!10:15
huatsseb128: and the ice cream contest ? do you participate ?10:16
seb128huats, no, I'm not crazy enough for that ;-)10:17
pittiyay, finally a working gdm keyboard selector10:17
huats(you were talking of icecreams before leaving so I guessed...)10:17
crevettepitti, one question, the keyboard layout in console since few days, I guess this is a know problem?10:18
pitticrevette: "... is wrong"?10:18
crevetteah yeah :)10:18
pitticrevette: yes, cjwatson mentioned that it's known-broken10:18
pittinothing to do with gdm, though10:18
Laneydidn't add 09_app_install_menu to series10:19
* Laney runs10:19
crevetteyeah I know this is not related, but as you spoke about keybd10:19
seb128go quilt go10:19
* pitti wonders how many hours he spent on this gdm thing by now10:19
* seb128 hugs pitti for the outstanding gdm work10:19
crevetteseb128 is evil10:19
* seb128 kicks crevette10:19
seb128no I'm not10:19
pittiseb128: bug 395324 is still unnerving, though10:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395324 in gdm "'These windows do not support "save current setup"....' metacity warning when logging in with gdm 2.26" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39532410:19
pittiexcept that one, it's working pretty well now10:20
seb128pitti, it's mostly cosmetic though, did you try to catch the #gdm guys about it?10:20
pittiseb128: not yet, just spoke to mclasen last week10:20
seb128pitti, another issue is that it doesn't let you to log out if you use autologin10:20
crevetteI had the same dialog appearing for empathy when I ended a session10:20
seb128right, I did read that, mclasen is not one of the gdm guys though10:20
pittiseb128: right, it doesn't fall back to timed login after logout, right?10:20
seb128he did some fixing for fedora but that's about it10:20
seb128pitti, indeed10:21
* pitti sighs10:21
seb128pitti, the issue could be a gnome-session one10:21
seb128pitti, chriscoulson might be a good person to ping about that10:21
seb128he has been looking at gnome-session for a while10:21
crevettedid seb128 updated to the latest gdm ?10:22
pittiwe do have the latest gdm10:22
pittiplus some three git cherrypicks10:22
crevetteI mean, perhaps it was just kicked of its session10:22
huatshello pitti and crevette10:23
crevettesalut huats10:23
pittibonjour huats, comment vas-tu?10:24
=== ara_ is now known as ara
huatspitti: very good ! since I am on holidays tonight... but I am sorry I can't say that in german :)10:27
asacchrisccoulson: hi ;)10:27
chrisccoulsonjust saw your e-mail10:28
asacchrisccoulson: i commented on the bug10:28
chrisccoulsoni've not seen that yet10:28
asacchrisccoulson: the --remove-all isnt redundant10:28
asacits there to workaround alternative bugs10:28
asace.g. if you --remove the last one and dont do a --remove-all, the next --install will not get auto selected10:28
chrisccoulsonah, ok. i didn't realise that10:29
asacaka the user ends up with nothing10:29
seb128ok, so the new gtk doesn't solve the csw issues reported10:29
asacchrisccoulson: so please put the code back in and lets fix the return code ;)10:29
asacchrisccoulson: and please request a merge ;)10:29
pittihey chrisccoulson10:29
asacchrisccoulson: isnt the bzr branch mentioned in control?10:29
asacif so we should add it there i guess10:29
chrisccoulsonasac - no problem. i couldnt find any other packages which do this though (other than xulrunner), so i thought it was ok ;)10:30
asacchrisccoulson: do what? --remove-all?10:30
chrisccoulsonasac - there is a bzr branch mentioned, but it is out of date10:30
asaclet me check10:30
chrisccoulsonyeah, i couldn't find any other package that did the --remove-all10:30
asacchrisccoulson: yeah. but try it10:31
asacchrisccoulson: maybe its fixed in the meantime10:31
chrisccoulsoni just did a "grep update-alternatives "\-\-remove\-all" /var/lib/dpkg/info" on my system, and the only other package that did it was xulrunner10:31
chrisccoulsonhey pitti10:32
asacchrisccoulson: right. i think for most alternatives user never remove all providers10:32
asacso they dont end up there10:32
chrisccoulsonah, ok10:32
asacchrisccoulson: lp:~gnash/gnash/ubuntu10:32
asacis that the one mentioned?10:33
chrisccoulsonasac - thanks. the one in debian/control is ubuntu-core-dev it think, which looks quite out of date10:33
chrisccoulsonalso, doesn't update-alternatives --remove-all also fail with an error when there are no providers left?10:33
asacchrisccoulson: ok. i will drop that10:33
asacchrisccoulson: right .... you can do  || true10:34
asacchrisccoulson: i dont think that it fails10:34
asacchrisccoulson: unless the alternative doesnt exist at all10:34
chrisccoulsonhmmm, i'll try it again. but i'm sure when i tried it on saturday, update-alternatives --remove-all failed with an error after removing the last provider with udpate-alternatives --remove10:35
asacchrisccoulson: seems that changed then. so either the underlying bug fixed or we are doomed10:37
chrisccoulsonasac - i'll take another look at it anyway, but it will have to be when i finish work10:37
asacchrisccoulson: sure thanks.10:37
* pitti pokes bugzilla.gnome.org, wake up!10:38
chrisccoulsonpitti - perhaps it wants us to stop reporting bugs ;)10:38
asacchrisccoulson: so assuming its really fixes, we probably also need to change flashplugin-nonfree10:39
asacand swfdec10:39
chrisccoulsonasac - probably, if it does the same thing then it will likely fail on removal in karmic at the moment anyway10:40
chrisccoulsoni'll take a look at it in gnash first though10:40
chrisccoulsonpitti - is bugzilla not working for you then? i can get on to it from here10:40
asacchrisccoulson: please use RELEASE 0.0-0...1 to ubuntu/karmic as the commit message for the release commits ;)10:40
asaccheck out bzr log10:41
chrisccoulsonno problem10:41
pittichrisccoulson: seems to work again now10:42
asacchrisccoulson: you can commit directly to ~gnash team now10:43
chrisccoulsonasac - thanks:)10:43
crevetteseb128, bug related to csw should bet tagged with csw in whiteboard field in bugzilla10:54
seb128crevette, thanks but there is no way to set the whiteboard on the bug filing page is it?10:55
seb128crevette, ie I need to file the bug and then edit it10:55
crevetteah there is not?10:55
* crevette pretend to file a bug10:55
crevetteah ture10:56
seb128crevette, I get mid-air collisions now thanks to you, no need to jump on new bugs while I'm editing those and adding details ...10:57
seb128Laney, can tomboy be synced now?11:18
seb128Laney, do you want to do the 0.15.3 update? ;-)11:18
Laneyseb128: yes from experimental. I didn't request as there are no changews yet11:18
Laneyit's on my list ;)11:19
seb128Laney, also we need somebody to do a sru for the current 0.14 in jaunty, want to work on that one too?11:19
Laneyyeah I was talking to lool about that11:19
Laneyyou want to sru 0.14.2?11:19
seb128I just need to get pitti convinced ;-)11:19
seb128or 0.14.3 rather now11:20
LaneyI wish they'd update their homepage11:20
Laneyseb128: do you have a script to watch ftp or something?11:22
laxmir u listening me?11:22
seb128laxmi, hi, no11:22
seb128Laney, I'm subscribed to the ftp mailing list11:22
laxmiI am facing a problem11:22
Laneydidn't know it existed11:22
seb128laxmi, try #ubuntu11:22
seb128Laney, we also have http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html11:22
Laneygood point11:23
seb128but it's not tracking stable11:23
Laneygot it on the list anyways11:23
Laneyjust fighting with gnome-menus11:23
Laneysomehow gnome-app-install doesn't get enabled11:23
seb128Laney, it's in applications.menu11:29
Laneyseb128: I see it if I edit the menu11:29
Laneybut it's disabled and if I enable it it just gets unset again11:29
seb128does it work on a stock config?11:29
Laneythis is a new user11:30
seb128and it's not displayed by default?11:31
Laneyprobably because it's being disabled for some reason11:31
seb128you applied 09_app_install_entry.patch?11:31
seb128btw no need to merge the old ubuntu changelog entries11:31
seb128better to clean those they take space for no real benefit11:32
Laneysome people like to see them for merges11:32
seb128I don't see the point11:33
seb128especially for desktop updates where we copy the NEWS11:33
seb128it tends to be lot of extra text for no real benefit11:33
LaneyI've looked at the changelog to see when/why changes were done before11:34
Laneyor even who so you can ask the changer11:34
LaneyLP does hold this information most of the time though11:35
seb128all the time I would say11:35
seb128and we summarize changes in the merge changelog entry11:35
seb128I tend to put references there or in the patch comment11:35
Laneythe problem is when the merge changelogs are not as detailed11:38
Laneybut it's nto a big deal11:38
Laneydoes empathy have privacy settings? getting spammed now11:40
pittiseb128: FYI, I'm currently building polkit-1-ified gnome-{session,panel},gdm, consolekit; any objections against those?11:43
pittii. e. would you rather wait until they are committed upstream?11:43
pitti(either way, I want them locally to test them)11:43
seb128pitti, not at all11:43
seb128go go go11:43
* pitti moves the crack-o-meter up another notch11:44
pittiI like the polkit-1 patches11:44
Nafallopitti: ...and crack11:44
pitti gnome-session/gsm-consolekit.c |  612 ++++-------------------------------------11:44
pitti 3 files changed, 62 insertions(+), 570 deletions(-)11:44
chrisccoulsonpitti - the gnome-session / consolekit migration causes some wierd side-effects though doesn't it?11:45
pittigdm is even better11:45
pitti gui/simple-greeter/gdm-greeter-login-window.c |  237 --------------------------11:45
pitti 3 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 263 deletions(-)11:45
pittichrisccoulson: yes, that's why the gnome-session one hasn't been sent upstream yet11:45
Nafallooooh. is that the annoying dialog getting removed? :-)11:46
pittiNafallo: which one?11:46
pitti(no, it's not meant to remove dialogs)11:46
Nafallopitti: the one after the login11:46
chrisccoulsonpitti - do you know if anyone is working on changing the consolekit API this cycle?11:46
pittiNafallo: not the "cannot save session greeter blabla" thing11:46
Nafallopitti: that one! :-)11:46
pittichrisccoulson: I don't know11:46
pittiNafallo: bug 395324, still needs looking into11:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395324 in gdm "'These windows do not support "save current setup"....' metacity warning when logging in with gdm 2.26" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39532411:46
Nafallopitti: think I'm subbed, and therefor saw you taking ownership ;-)11:47
NafalloI think that's the one issue I have on the EeePC 701 4GB at the moment :-)11:47
james_wchrisccoulson: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2009-June/msg00007.html <- that one?11:48
chrisccoulsonjames_w - yeah, thats the one11:48
chrisccoulsoni was just wondering if anyone was working on that yet11:48
james_wmclasen would be the one to ask I get11:48
chrisccoulsonah, ok. thanks11:49
chrisccoulsonpitti - do you know what that dialog appears for yet?11:49
chrisccoulsonit's displayed by metacity isn't it?11:50
pittichrisccoulson: no, I still need to learn how session management works, and what goes wrong there11:50
pittiapparently the greeter doesn't properly register with the session11:50
chrisccoulsonyeah, i don't understand what it means yet. the dialog is actually displayed by metacity, so i'm unsure of what it has to do with session management11:51
chrisccoulsonit might be worth having a look at the metacity code though11:51
pittioh, that's not gnome-session?11:51
chrisccoulsonno, it seems the dialog is displayed be metacity. i noticed it when i was debugging another metacity issue last week11:51
* pitti tests new PK crack, brb11:51
chrisccoulsonthat's why the dialog goes away if you don't start metacity in the greeter session11:52
chrisccoulsonbtw, there is still a metacity patch in the sponsor queue i think ;)11:53
Nafalloseb128: wb11:54
seb128ok, new gtk uploaded11:54
seb128re Nafallo11:54
chrisccoulsonpitti - do you know if the greeter already registers with the session manager?11:55
chrisccoulsonlooking at the metacity code, it seems that it displays the error for any window not having a sm_client_id11:56
chrisccoulsonso gdm probably needs to call gdk_set_sm_client_id somewhere11:56
Nafalloseb128: you should get a new computer! one that let's you be on irc at the same time as you dput :-)11:56
seb128Nafallo, that's rather that I do a full session restart before uploading gtk to make sure it does't break gdm, login, anything11:57
Nafalloseb128: meh. what's the fun in development version if it doesn't break? :-P11:58
seb128we have enough people breaking things already ;-)11:59
pittichrisccoulson: latest upload of gdm added a patch to do that, but it didn't help11:59
pittiugh, so consolekit/gdm work fine now, but restart in panel menu breaks completely12:00
pittisomething to figure out after lunch12:00
* pitti sighs12:00
seb128pitti, restart what?12:00
pittiseb128: reboot12:00
seb128ah the menu item you mean12:00
asacseb128: so yelp to webkit migration is not going to happen this cycle, right?12:01
seb128asac, dunno, they will decide on new components this week12:01
seb128asac, it's still on the roadmap but I'm not sure they will declare all issues solved12:01
asacseb128: i mean codewise. is yelp ready for webkit?12:01
seb128yes, they have a webkit version in git for a while I think12:02
seb128over a cycle12:02
asacbut not in tarball?12:02
seb128they just didn't make it official default12:02
asacmaybe we can pull that in?12:02
seb128no, they just roll tarballs for the official mainstream version12:02
asacor would you feel bad about such a moveß12:02
seb128what is the rational to do it?12:02
asacoh i remember there are a11y12:03
seb128I would prefer to stay on a version translated, etc12:03
asacseb128: we want to get rid of as much xulrunner rdepends as possible12:03
seb128and supported by upstream guys12:03
seb128let's wait a week12:03
seb128I want to see how their discussion about webkit for this cycle go12:03
asacseb128: its here as a todo: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-firefox-3.512:03
asaci can make it postponed and add a "port to 1.9.1 entry" instead12:03
asacits just that i want to finish all the main porting this week so we can swiftly move to 1.9.112:04
seb128wait a few days and let's revisit that once GNOME has decided what to do for 2.2812:04
asacseb128: ok, but for ephy we can kick the epiphany-browser package out and migrate to epiphany-webkit?12:04
seb128vuntz, ^ any idea about webkit being used by GNOME for 2.28?12:04
seb128asac, I would like to keep both but we can move it to universe12:05
asacseb128: well. i wouldnt want to invest much time making it work on 1.9.112:05
asacseb128: so if the port is easy we can keep it ... otherwise we can keep it if we keep 1.9 in universe12:05
seb128let somebody do that if they are interested and drop it if nobody does?12:06
asaci dont think anyone will do it, but ok12:06
seb128ie break it when you need and wait for somebody to fix it or not12:06
asacseb128: point is that if we dont drop it we cant migrate the gecko users to webkit12:06
seb128well maybe other distros do and we can grab the change ;-)12:06
seb128well I'm not sure webkit is ready to be default yet12:06
seb128ie I need greasemonkey to work12:07
seb128I need to go for lunch now, bbl, we can continue this discussion after lunch if you want12:07
asacok lets wait till we know whats up with webkit12:09
Laneydoesn't seem like I broke gnome-app-install12:21
Laneybroken in a VM install too12:21
crevettedoes anyone noticed problem with volume slider in totem in karmic, the slider doesn't seems to move12:24
crevette... but the volume is changed. I wonder if it a side effect of csw12:25
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
Laneycrevette: weird the popout thing just seems to clise12:27
seb128works fine here12:27
crevetteLaney, I can't recall the behavior as I back to windows, but it seems broken for me on 2 laptops12:27
crevetteseb128, perhaps latest gtk fixed the issue12:28
LaneyI click on the slider and the widget disappears12:28
Laneydon't know if the volume changes, got the radio on12:28
seb128I doubt it12:28
seb128I played with it some days ago to try the "jump to 0" bug fix12:28
seb128and it was working correctly with 2.17.3 too12:28
crevetteI noticed the behavior yesterday12:29
crevetteand I tested on my professional laptop and got the same problem12:29
* Laney has 2.17.312:29
* crevette has too12:29
seb128do you get the same issue in rhythmbox?12:30
Laney~laney/+junk/gnome-menus needs a merge12:30
Laneyseb128: no12:30
seb128that's the same widget being used12:31
Laneyif I don't let go of the mouse button then I can alter it12:31
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
chrisccoulsonhey pitti - this dialog that metacity displays for the gdm greeter at the moment will appear for any application which doesn't connect to the session manager, including any non-native application and some proprietary ones. i'm just wondering whether we should disable the dialog completely and just turn it in to a g_warning or something (so it logs an error in xsession-errors)? the dialog was never there before, and it will prob13:17
Laney"will prob"13:17
chrisccoulsoneg, the dialog always appears when logging it whilst you're running something like xterm13:17
chrisccoulsonlooging it -> logging out13:18
Laney(your line got cut off)13:19
chrisccoulsonwill probably end up irritating users ;)13:19
chrisccoulsonthat was the end of it13:19
Laneyyes, it already irritates me :)13:19
chrisccoulsonme too. i think we should just turn it off ;)13:19
Laneyyou should at least be allowed to never see it again13:19
chrisccoulsonyeah, i agree. a dialog that appears every time is overkill13:20
chrisccoulsonif a user is really that bothered about the WM not restoring the window position, they will open a bug report13:20
seb128you might want to ping vuntz about it too though13:21
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, thanks. i'll wait and see if he responds13:22
seb128he might still be in gran canaria or travelling back13:22
seb128I know he said he would take some extra days there13:22
chrisccoulsonok, no problem13:22
seb128you might want to apply the change for karmic meanwhile so users don't get annoyed13:22
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i can look at that. it shouldn't be difficult to do13:23
pittichrisccoulson: I agree13:24
pittichrisccoulson: especially since "session saving" is a joke anyway in current gnome13:24
chrisccoulsonyeah, definately. and i'm not sure users will care about being notified every time they log out13:25
pittiso, let's rip it out13:26
chrisccoulsonyeah, i'll look at that. rather than ripping it out completely though, i think i'll just make it log a warning in xsession-errors instead. at least there's still a way to find buggy apps then13:27
seb128pitti, session saving is not a joke, it works fine when client applications do their job13:27
pittiseb128: I never ever got my session restored since feisty or so13:28
chrisccoulsonyeah, we should still fix gdm as well though13:28
seb128pitti, well it's at least asking if you want to save work since jaunty before closing13:28
pittibut that's not session save/restore13:28
seb128which is the import part13:28
seb128well open applications on a workspace seems to work there13:29
seb128at least with gedit and some other GNOME things I tried13:29
seb128the position is not part of the session storing though and applications should handle that13:29
pittihm, not with gnome-terminal, empathy, and firefox then13:29
pittiI always get a clean desktop after logging in13:29
pittiis that supposed to work?13:29
pittiI thought that was ripped out from the old gnome-session and never put back in?13:30
chrisccoulsonpitti - it depends whether you've enabled it in gnome-session-properties13:30
seb128well if you save your session13:30
seb128ie enable the key to save session at closing or use the save button in the capplet13:30
pittioh, that works again?13:30
seb128since jaunty yes13:31
Laneydoes it remember workspaces?13:31
seb128worked when I tried with gedit13:31
seb128but many of the issues are buggy softwares13:31
chrisccoulsonLaney - that is probably the responsibility of the WM - which is what this error dialog is about13:32
Laneyso I expect it not to work for claws and gwibber then ;)13:32
chrisccoulsonthe error dialog appears if a client doesn't tell the WM it's sm_client_id (at least that is my understanding of it from the metacity code)13:32
chrisccoulsonthinking about it, the dialog shouldn't display at all unless you want the session saved when you exit, by explicitly enabling session saving13:34
pittioh, indeed it restores gome-terminals now; nothing else, though :(13:36
pittibut that's good to know13:36
chrisccoulsonpitti - if things don't work, then those are application bugs13:36
pittiok, seems new polkit stuff works13:45
didrockspitti: are you aware of any way to use distutils to make it install every date files in setup.py? I'm considering to write a function with os.walk returning every files…13:47
pittididrocks: every date file?13:47
pittididrocks: DistUtilsExtra.auto should already do that13:47
pittididrocks: everything under data/ is copied verbatim13:47
pittionly data/icons/ are special13:48
kenvandinepitti, can you make it pick up files in media/ too?13:48
kenvandinequickly puts stuff in there13:48
pittikenvandine: why not just put that into data/?13:48
pittiI don't want two directories13:48
pittisince that opens up the possibility of file conflicts13:48
kenvandinei think rick is getting annoyed i keep suggesting moving directories :)13:48
pittidata/foo and media/foo would both land in /usr/share/<appname>/foo13:48
kenvandinei think data makes more sense anyway13:48
didrockspitti: pitti ok, thanks (I'm experiencing for quickly itself, not subproject currently) :)13:48
pittiwell *shrug*, data/ is an established norm in GNOME and freedesktop packages, not just in distutils13:49
maxbThis is a bit weird ... mouse-selecting text in xchat is now sending the selection to the X clipboard instead of the X primary selection - is this a "feature" or a bug?13:49
kenvandinei'll propose a branch moving it to data :)13:49
pittiyou could use data/media/13:49
seb128maxb, is that specific to xchat?13:50
maxbSo far I've only noticed it there, but that could just be a reflection of my usage pattern13:50
maxbgnome-terminal seems unaffected13:51
* pitti uploads polkit-1 crack; let hell break loose!14:05
Nafallowho let pitti loose?14:06
pittiNafallo: MUHAHAHA14:07
* kenvandine is scared to update tomorrow :)14:11
chrisccoulsondo it:-|14:12
kenvandinei'll forget to be scared by tomorrow morning, when i do my daily updates :)14:13
pittihey, I was nice and triggered a "needs reboot" stamp14:14
pitti(you really need it)14:14
kenvandinemorning rickspencer314:21
rickspencer3hello kenvandine14:21
pittihey rickspencer314:23
pittiseb128, chrisccoulson, mvo: ugh, still way to go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PolicyKitOneMigration14:23
seb128pitti, your list is weird14:24
pittiit's checkrdepends policykit karmic14:24
pittiby and large14:24
seb128pitti, since when update-notifier uses policykit?14:24
maxbThe weird xchat clipboard vs. primary issue I mentioned seems to have been resolved by gtk+ 2.17.4, ftr14:24
mvois there a porting guide?14:24
pittiDepends: libpolkit214:25
pittiseb128: might be libtool fuzz14:25
seb128pitti, indeed, that's funny I rebuilt it 25 minutes ago to look at GNOME3 things14:25
pittimvo: I'll link it14:25
seb128Depends: [-libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0),-] libc6 (>= 2.4), [-libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.0.2),-] libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78), [-libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1),-] libgconf2-4 (>= 2.23.2), libgdu0 (>= 0.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= [-2.17.0),-] {+2.17.3),+} libnotify1 (>= 0.4.5), libnotify1-gtk2.10, [-libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpolkit2 (>= 0.7),-] libx11-6, gconf2 (>= 2.10.1-2), update-notifier-com14:25
seb128mon (= [-0.85),-] {+0.85ubuntu1),+} python, update-manager, notification-daemon, gksu14:25
seb128mvo, ^ interested to cut some depends from update-notifier?14:26
pittiright, so probably just a -Wl,--as-needed or so?14:26
pitti.la files for the lose!14:26
seb128mvo, do you want me to upload?14:26
seb128pitti, yes, it's14:26
seb128+LDFLAGS += -Wl,-z,defs -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed14:26
mvoseb128: have you commited to bzr?14:26
mvoseb128: I may have some other changes pending, let me check first please14:26
seb128mvo, I've the bzr locally, didn't push yet which is what I'm asking, do you want me to push and upload?14:27
mvoseb128: just push please and add changelog etc (with UNRELEASED)14:27
seb128mvo, there is no pending change14:27
mvothanks (pending here in my local tree I mean)14:28
seb128mvo, debdiff between my building and karmic is14:28
seb128 changelog |    7 +++++++14:28
seb128 rules     |    1 +14:28
pittimvo, seb128: page updated14:28
seb128oh ok14:28
seb128mvo, ok, pushed but I forgot to change the distro it's still karmic, do you want me to do another commit to change that?14:30
mvoseb128: its fine, thanks14:30
* seb128 hugs mvo14:30
* mvo says thanks and hugs seb12814:30
seb128pitti, I'm wondering if I should do such pages for libglade and gnomevfs14:30
pittiseb128: hm, thinking about it I'll probably convert this page to bug reports14:31
pittibut for initial data collection this is easier14:31
pittiphone, brb14:31
=== evanrmurphy_ is now known as evanrmurphy
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, it looks like there's still quite a bit of work to do14:34
chrisccoulsonit's a shame to have to spend time porting hal though14:34
pittiprobably won't happen14:37
pittichrisccoulson: we could disable pk support14:37
chrisccoulsonpossibly. what is HAL used for now?14:37
pittibut best would be to drop hal altogether :)14:37
chrisccoulsonit doesn't do anything needing PK now does it?14:37
pittiit does, for KDE presumably14:38
pittichrisccoulson, seb128: I updated the page again, now with links to patches, etc.14:46
chrisccoulsonpitti - thanks:)14:47
pittiI'll port jockey now, I think14:47
chrisccoulsonpitti - i'm updating g-c-c later, so i'll take that one, seeing as fedora already have a patch for that14:48
pitticool, thanks14:48
pittiright, we can grab them as we touch the packages anyway14:48
pittiand for dk-power/g-p-m we should just wait on a new upstream release14:48
pittibut CK/gdm/g-session/panel was one major lockstep14:49
pittiLaney: so applying 09_app_install_entry.patch doesn't make any difference at all? why do we need the patch then?14:54
Laneypitti: I think there are two problems14:54
Laneythe missing patch definitely doesn't help14:54
Laneyas even if we fixed the underlying issue then it still wouldn't appear14:55
pittiwell, it does appear, just in the Others/ submenu14:55
pitti(even without the patch)14:55
LaneyI don't see it there14:55
Laneythere's an unselectable version in alacarte though14:55
Laneywell let me check in Others/ in my vm14:56
kenvandinehey didrocks14:57
kenvandinei am doing a merge with your changes from quickly14:57
Laneydon't see it there14:57
kenvandinein save.py, -import os14:57
kenvandine-import sys14:57
kenvandine+import osimport sys14:57
Laneypitti: it's like this http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/alacarte.png14:58
didrockskenvandine: do we really need to import those modules?14:58
kenvandineos yes14:58
Laneyyou can tick the checkbox but it just gets disabled again14:58
Laney...and that's with 2.26.1-0ubuntu114:59
kenvandinebut looks like a missing carriage return14:59
didrocksok, I can do it, I have still a lot of things to push14:59
didrocksindeed, you're right. Wait for 10 minutes. I first finish my setup.py :)15:00
kenvandinedidrocks, ping me when you are done with trunk so i can merge before pushing changes :)15:00
didrockskenvandine: ok :) For you, where templates must be located?15:01
kenvandineyou want to move the templates?15:01
didrockskenvandine: when installed, yes15:01
kenvandineoh... humm15:02
kenvandine /usr/share/quickly/templates perhaps?15:02
pittikenvandine: do you know the current status of the pymsn fork and butterfly packaging?15:02
kenvandinethey are getting it uploaded to debian15:02
pittikenvandine: I wondered if we should move empathy to the default install now and temporarily drop butterfly15:02
pittior wait until they are available15:02
didrockskenvandine: ok, so, we agree :) I just have to see how to complete that in a smart way with distutils :/15:02
pittiI'd really like to have empathy in alpha-315:02
kenvandinepitti, lets do that...15:02
kenvandineme too15:03
kenvandineit is an alpha... so no msn support isn't the end of the world15:03
pittiit's just a recommends, isn't it?15:03
kenvandinepitti, did you split up libpurple?15:03
kenvandinei think so15:03
pittikenvandine: no, I didn't; too much pain^Wfun with gdm15:03
kenvandinewant me to split it up by protocol?15:04
pittikenvandine: perhaps not for each protocol, just the ones we need to install by default perhaps?15:04
pittikenvandine: but I think that's the sort of stuff we can do after beta15:05
pittiit's not a blocker right now15:05
seb128why do you guys want to split libpurple now?15:05
pittijust for size optimization15:05
seb128how much potential win?15:05
seb128it seems lot of extra work and diff over debian for now real win15:05
seb128now -> no15:05
pittiseb128: right, that's why I woudln't like to do it now15:05
pittijust if we are despearate for space15:06
seb128how much difference would that make?15:06
pittiprobably ~ 1 MB, plus another MB if we drop pidgin-data from libpurple's dependencies15:06
AmaranthLaney: is your user in the admin group?15:11
LaneyAmaranth: no15:12
Laneydoes it need to be for g-a-i to show up?15:12
Laneymakes sense I guess15:12
AmaranthLaney: that's why you can't get gnome-app-install (or most of the things in the admin menu)15:12
seb128Laney, yes15:12
Laneyok let me try with another one15:12
Laneygood catch15:12
seb128mvo, are you sure that import gobject issues are pygobject bugs and not due to all the debian packaging around rather?15:14
* seb128 just noticed that you reassigned a bug to pygobject but if pygobject failed to import other users would have noticed15:15
seb128seems rather some local install or packaging system issue15:15
Laneypitti: yeah I just confirmed that it works if I use an admin user15:19
Laneysorry for confusino15:19
Laneythe patch just ensures it gets added to the root menu15:19
LaneyI guess it lives in Others by default too15:20
pittiright, so it seems that patch doesn't work then15:20
Laneyit does15:20
LaneyI just forgot to put it in series15:20
pittiah, right15:20
Laneypushed it up to my branch already15:20
* pitti builds and tests15:20
pittiLaney: alrighty then; thanks, and sorry for the confusion15:21
* Laney thinks it came more from this end15:21
mvoseb128: pretty sure its the debian packaging around it, but its difficult to debug that :(15:21
seb128mvo, ok, I don't think bouncing it on pygobject will make it being solve though, I will bounce back on python*15:23
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk
didrockspitti: does distutils-extra update xx.po files? It seems to only update .pot file and xx.po -> xx.mo, but not running intltool-update xx16:10
pittididrocks: ./setup.py build_i18n -m16:10
pittiit's not meant to do that automatically on build16:10
pittisince that creates noise in revision control, etc.16:10
pittiusually developers want to do this by hand only16:10
didrockspitti: understood (and yes, it works ;)) Thanks.16:11
statikhi rickspencer316:36
statikwe'll happily merge CouchWidget into lp:desktopcouch if you propose a branch for merging :) i was ecstatic to hear that you were writing this16:37
rickspencer3hi statik16:39
rickspencer3I need to add a catalogue file and fix up a couple of thngs16:39
seb128hey rickspencer316:43
rickspencer3hi seb12816:43
* rickspencer3 is using empathy for irc16:43
rickspencer3hard to find messages and such from folks16:44
seb128rickspencer3, it doesn't highlight?16:46
rickspencer3seb128: it's hard to navigate to the correct window16:46
rickspencer3I get the notification, but then don't know from where I was pinged16:47
rickspencer3the tabs don't highlight to show I got a ping16:47
rickspencer3other than that, works pretty much the same as pidgin for irc16:48
rickspencer3seb128: would it be helpful if I logged a bug?16:48
seb128rickspencer3, yes, always good to have issues listed on the bug tracker, especially if that's not something we will look at immediately16:50
* rickspencer3 takes not to log bug on empathy irc usage16:51
* rickspencer3 has too much to do today16:51
waltersKeybuk: working on that release, got a number of bugs done.  Feel like reviewing https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896 ?17:00
ubottuFreedesktop bug 896 in core "D-BUS messages lost when auto-activating" [Major,Assigned]17:00
rickspencer3seb128: I put in a blank dvd-rom disk, and there is no way to eject it17:01
rickspencer3where would you suggest I log a bug on that?17:01
seb128rickspencer3, you can't right click on it in the computer location?17:01
rickspencer3seb128: I can right click on it, but there is no "eject" option in the menu (as there is for my external hard drive connected via usb)17:02
seb128rickspencer3, just press the drive button?17:02
rickspencer3I can click the little eject icon in nautilus, but nothing happens17:02
rickspencer3seb128: I'm sure I can get it out, but it seems like a bug that I can't eject it17:02
seb128rickspencer3, karmic?17:03
rickspencer3seb128: yes17:03
seb128rickspencer3, I'm not sure but I think that should be fixed with the next gvfs and nautilus update17:03
Keybukwalters: reading now17:03
seb128rickspencer3, if you want to open a bug open it on gvfs I will track it there17:03
seb128rickspencer3, or wait for the next update before opening if you are lazy17:04
rickspencer3I'll hold off for a couple of days17:04
seb128lazy or busy ;-)17:04
rickspencer3busy and lazy ...17:04
rickspencer3the worst combination17:04
seb128I can confirm there with a blank CD, I've only unmount17:04
seb128I will check when I update gvfs and nautilus17:04
seb128mvo, do you know how to debug gksu?17:05
seb128mvo, it's broken with the new gtk apparently17:06
Keybukwalters: so basically defer error handling to the read() part of the transport17:10
waltersKeybuk: yeah17:11
mvoseb128: I can have a look, let me quickly update my gtk17:12
Keybukack'd on bug17:14
mvoseb128: I can reproduce it here17:15
seb128mvo, me too, I'm just not sure where to start looking, any hint?17:15
seb128libgksu I guess?17:15
mvoseb128: yeah, the huge do_sudo_full function there17:15
mvomaybe a rebuild is enough?17:16
seb128mvo, would mean abi got broken on the way?17:17
seb128I don't really believe in rebuilds making things work17:17
=== maxb_ is now known as maxb
seb128mvo, no, doesn't work17:19
seb128mvo, using   gtk_entry_set_visibility(GTK_ENTRY(gksuui_dialog->entry), TRUE); works17:28
seb128but it displays your password :-p17:28
mvoheh :)17:28
seb128I guess it's due to mclasen's changes17:28
seb128"* GtkEntry now has model-view separation, with GtkEntryBuffer.17:29
seb128  One intended use case for this is to support 'secure memory'17:29
seb128  for password entries."17:29
mvoheh, yeah - I can confirm that17:30
mvoI get as the password "*****" :)17:30
mclasenwhat does not work ?17:30
seb128mclasen, gksu17:31
mclasena bit more specific, maybe ?17:31
seb128mclasen, the passwords are not accepted after the gtk 2.17.3 to 2.17.4 upgrade17:31
seb128mclasen, I'm trying to figure what happens exactly will give specifics when I've those17:31
seb128mvo, do you know what part of the code get the password from the entry?17:32
mvoyeah, it sues gtk_editable_get_chars()17:32
mvoin libgksuui/gksuui.c17:33
* mclasen has used password entries in Fedora after uploading 2.17.4, so it cannot be altogether broken...17:33
seb128gksuui_dialog_get_password (GksuuiDialog *dialog)?17:33
mvoseb128: yes17:33
seb128ok, that's where I was looking17:33
=== dpm is now known as dpm-afk
seb128mclasen, is gtk_editable_get_chars() supposed to give the clear password or "*****"?17:34
seb128for a gtk_entry with gtk_entry_set_visibility FALSE17:34
kenvandineseb128, can you get evolution-indicator rebuilt against evo 2.27.x?17:34
kenvandinebug 39036017:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 390360 in evolution-indicator "evolution-indicator not working in Karmic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39036017:35
mclasenwhatever it did in previous releases17:35
kenvandineseb128, i confirmed a rebuild fixes it17:35
seb128kenvandine, ok17:35
seb128mvo, mclasen: ok that's the issue, gtk_editable_get_chars() used to return the password in clear text and returns ******** now17:36
mclasenyeah, file a bug, I'll get that fixed17:37
mvoit seems like a workaround is to just use "gtk_entry_get_text()"17:37
* mvo prepares the workaround17:38
* seb128 waits on bugzilla to respond17:40
seb128mvo, if you do an upload bug #39884917:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 398849 in gksu "Can't elevate privledges on administrative tasks" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39884917:41
mvothanks seb12817:41
mvoalmost ready, just doing a final rebuild17:42
* mvo hugs seb128 for finding the problem so quickly17:42
* seb128 hugs mvo for doing a quick workaround ;-)17:42
* charlie-tca thanks both mvo and seb128 for this one17:42
* mclasen steps out of the hugging circle17:43
waltersmclasen: free software, free love!  don't be a hater17:44
=== WelshDragon is now known as YDdraigGoch
seb128mclasen, ok, bugzilla replied now, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58846117:51
ubottuGnome bug 588461 in GtkEntry "gtk_editable_get_chars() behaviour change in 2.17.4" [Normal,Unconfirmed]17:51
* Laney stabs empathy17:56
Laneywhy do I have to click on the notification icon for new conversations to come up?17:57
pittiI think that already was discussed heavily in an upstream bug18:13
seb128where else would you expect to click?18:13
pittiI lamented there as well, but it got quiet unfortunately18:13
pittiI want a window open, like in pidgin18:13
seb128you want jumping dialogs?18:14
seb128should the email client make emails jump on screen when they arrive too? ;-)18:14
pittiemail is not "instant" messaging18:14
pittiseb128: email shouldn't blink in the notification bar either :)18:14
seb128right, nothing should "blink"18:15
seb128they should just be indicated by an icon there18:15
pittibut then I wouldn't notice it at all18:15
seb128good point18:16
LaneyI *already* had a chat window open in this case anyway18:16
seb128I've no strong opinion about things jumping or blinking though18:16
seb128but I tend to dislike things autoopening18:16
Laneyhaving to leave my keyboard just to open another tab was pretty obnoxious18:16
seb128those being im messages or updates18:17
seb128Laney, alt-tab and alt-n?18:17
* Laney knows not of this18:17
pittialt-tab> there is no window to alt-tab to18:17
seb128or whatever they use to switch tabs18:17
seb128pitti, <Laney> I *already* had a chat window open in this case anyway18:17
Laneythere is no tab to switch to18:17
Laneyyou have to click to create the new tab18:17
seb128that's a different discussion18:18
Laneyseems to be the same one18:18
seb128there is no reason tabs could not be added in the background18:18
seb128that's different from auto-opening things on your screen18:18
Laneywe already created a precedent for auto opening things18:19
seb128Laney, the update autoopening you mean?18:20
Laneyright, things the user wants to see right away :)18:20
seb128I'm trying to argue against that auto-opening too18:20
seb128kenvandine, evolution-indicator doesn't build on current karmic18:20
pittiright, for u-m18:20
pittithe difference is that update-manager doesn't get grumpy if ignore it for two hours18:21
pittiunlike my wife :)18:21
seb128good reason to get a blinking icon rather than a dialog in the background you will not notice18:22
LaneyI noticed the icon; just didn't want to have to move my hands off the keyboard to respond to it18:23
Laneytwo issues here - icon behaviour (shouldn't it be using indicator-applet anyway?) and spawning of dialogs18:23
asacseb128: latest gtk+ breaks mozilla dailies http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28975448/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-lpia.xulrunner-1.9.1_1.9.1.1~hg20090713r26052%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz18:25
asacseb128: seems the headers became pickier or something18:25
seb128asac, seems so, fix xulrunner? ;-)18:27
asacseb128: can you please verify that this is intended breakage in the most recent release with gtk+ folks? if so we will fix xulrunner, but not if its a bug18:27
seb128asac, gtk is moving in this way for sure that's one of the gtk3 goals18:29
asacdo you see the commit that broke it?18:30
seb128asac, http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+/commit/?id=eab02f697a29f2bfd388f6318adf18e2936e7e9618:30
seb128asac, gtkentrybuffer.h is a new file18:30
seb128+#if defined(GTK_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES) && !defined (__GTK_H_INSIDE__) && !defined (GTK_COMPILATION)18:30
seb128+#error "Only <gtk/gtk.h> can be included directly."18:30
asachow is that set?18:31
asacby pkg-config now?18:31
seb128no, in your makefile that's a simple cflags18:31
asacseb128: err. we dont set it for sure18:32
asaci guess it must come from somewhere by default now18:32
seb128asac, well, you should if you want to be able to use granularity18:32
asacits a flag to disable it18:33
asace.g. if you dont pass anything it will not complain18:33
asacso it seems to be defined somewhere now by default ;)18:33
seb128it's a flag to make it not break when you don't respect single include18:33
asacno ... its DISABLE ... its a flag to make it break18:33
asacnot to not break ;)18:33
asacor am i missing something?18:33
seb128SINGLE_INCLUDES is what gtk tries to enforce now18:33
asacwhich i am sure existed before18:33
asacbut wasnt default18:34
seb128ie force you to do include <gtk/gtk.h>18:34
asacseb128: but where ?18:34
seb128and not gtkentry.h18:34
asacseb128: was it added to pkg-config ? ... or is it defined in gtk.h now?18:34
seb128mclasen, ^ that's a wanted change right?18:34
seb128asac, gtkentrybuffer.h which triggers your build error in a new file included in gtkentry.h18:34
kenvandineseb128, hummm... built locally18:34
seb128kenvandine, you have 2.27.4 from today?18:35
asacseb128: and gtkentry.h sets that define?18:35
kenvandineseb128, oh... no18:35
kenvandinei guess that was after my morning update :)18:35
* kenvandine will fix it18:35
* asac gets gtk+2.0 sources18:37
seb128asac, you probably include gtkentry.h which uses to not enforce single include18:37
seb128asac, now gtkentry.h includes gtkentrybuffer.h which does enforce single include18:37
seb128asac, you can set -DGTK_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES to not break on that or fix your code to include gtk.h18:37
seb128"which used to not enforce"18:38
mclasenseb128: fixed in master18:38
mclasenit was not intentional to break everybody who includes gtkentry.h18:38
seb128asac, ^18:38
seb128mclasen, thanks ;-)18:38
asachah. i knew it18:39
asacmclasen: do you have a commit id?18:39
asachey you even committed it18:40
seb128asac, do you want me to backport the change?18:40
asacseb128: if you can cherry pick that it would be great18:41
seb128asac, will do, I've to backport http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+/commit/?id=ea3184f12972a6b03a0479ce26855c709ca41867 too18:41
pittiTaekwondo time, cu tomorrow!18:41
asacseb128: why not take a git snapshot ;)18:41
seb128pitti, see you on wednesday, today is a holiday there18:41
asacthere are just a few commits on top of .418:41
seb128asac, because I don't fancy uploading an another 30meg tarball on my 128k upload18:42
pittiseb128: enjoy18:42
seb128pitti, danke18:42
pittiseb128: please send your report, touhgh18:42
seb128pitti, will do, I might be around for the meeting too but not sure yet18:42
didrockspitti: if you have some time (no hurry), can you please give a look at setup.py in lp:quickly branch? (I think it should be ok appart from an added po/ directory I can't remove). I'm not quite confident in my distutil usage.18:53
seb128asac, uploading19:19
asacseb128: rock ... and roll ;)19:21
crevetteseb128, bug 397571 shouldn't be assigned to bluez-gstreamer instead of bluez-gnome?19:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 397571 in bluez-gnome "rhythmbox-metadata crashed with SIGSEGV in memcpy()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39757119:27
seb128crevette, dunno, check where the file is distributed, I've no clue about bluetooth19:28
seb128brb testing gtk19:28
crevettedpkg -S libgstbluetooth.so can give you the answer :)19:28
=== SiDi_ is now known as SiDi
Ampelbeinhi there. is the deskbar-applet upgrade free to take?19:35
seb128Ampelbein, hey, yes19:36
Ampelbeinseb128: ok, then now it is taken. ;-)19:36
didrockskenvandine: why did you remove camel_case_nameWindow.py at rev 129 for quickly? (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickly/quickly/trunk/revision/129)19:42
kenvandineit was moved to bin/project_name19:43
didrockscamel_case_nameWindow.py is different from project_name script, no?19:43
didrocksthe file still exists and is not the same than project_name. It's just no more installed when creating a project19:44
Ampelbeinseb128: hey... I have a little trouble understanding deskbar-applet here. They claim in the NEWS-file to have removed dependency on the deprecated libgnomeui. Yet in configure.ac they remove the pkg-config check for gnome-python-2.0, not gnome-desktop-2.0 . Where am I mistaken here?20:16
Ampelbeinseb128: see http://paste.ubuntu.com/217196/ for clarification20:16
seb128Ampelbein, gnomeui is in gnome-python20:18
Ampelbeinseb128: ok, i got slightly confused there. thanks.20:22
asacRiddell: if i want to provide a api mostly doing signal emission for kde/Qt, is there any particular base-lib i should use to make adaption easy? (similar to glib)20:57
rickspencer31kenvandine: thoughts on a  unit testing framework for quickly?21:21
kenvandinethe shell outs there make that a pain21:22
kenvandinei think the most useful testing work we can do is functional tests21:23
kenvandineat least the biggest bang for the buck21:23
kenvandinesince that is what we have been breaking21:23
kenvandinethe shell commands21:23
rickspencer31how do you recommend I approach that?21:24
kenvandinethinking about that21:24
kenvandinewe would need to create a new stub project and execute all the commands and destroy it after21:24
asackenvandine: now that i see you, is this an experiment or something that is supposed to land for karmic: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/gwibber/gwibber-dbus-activated  ?21:24
kenvandinethis was something segphault merged21:25
kenvandineyes for karmic21:25
kenvandinebut for his branch that hasn't merged into trunk yet21:25
asackenvandine: ok so its in his "2.0" branch?21:25
asacso i guess having that is a requirement for karmic?21:25
asackenvandine: is there a spec about this?21:26
kenvandineone sec21:26
asackenvandine: i guess the firefox extension is not ment to be installed by default?21:28
kenvandineif that even happens21:29
kenvandinenot sure if that is reasonable for karmic21:29
kenvandineif we did it... it would be installed by default21:29
asacis the task split randome (e.g. the "split service out 1:" and create UI that renders results from service 1)21:29
asacjust wonder because i couldnt find anything about that in the wiki on first glance21:30
kenvandinenot random21:30
asackenvandine: well if you start working on the firefox extension please talk to me first  ;)21:30
kenvandinethe posting and caching of posts should be in the backend21:30
kenvandinethen the client just renders that21:30
kenvandineasac, of course :)21:30
rickspencer31kenvandine: if it's not going into Karmic, you could set the work item to postponed21:30
asacbut thanks for the insight.21:30
kenvandinerickspencer31, i think we are still negotiating :)21:31
kenvandinei wish ryan had made it to gcds21:31
asackenvandine: negotiating?21:31
asacabout the firefox exension?21:31
kenvandineasac, i'll ping you if there is a chance someone will work on it21:32
kenvandinehis 2.0 roadmap includes way too much imho21:32
* kenvandine wants to reduce the scope21:32
asackenvandine: great. if you could do that before its started let me know ;)21:32
rickspencer31kenvandine: so back to testing quickly21:41
rickspencer31should I just write some python code that runs functional tests?21:41
rickspencer31or is there a functional testing fx that I should use?21:41
kenvandinerickspencer31, i think that is the best start21:41
kenvandinethen figure out unit testing later... functional tests is what will save us right now21:41
rickspencer31m not sure I can automate everything21:42
rickspencer31like how to confirm that quickly glade works21:42
kenvandineyeah.. :/21:42
rickspencer31still, it's a start21:42
kenvandineyou could verify by exit code?21:42
rickspencer31okay, should I use quickly to create the functional tests ;)21:42
rickspencer31quickly new ubutnu-project quickly_tests21:43
rickspencer31gotta run21:44
Riddellasac: qtcore?22:05
Riddellthat has the essential non gui classes22:05
asacRiddell: so i need to implement a QObject ?22:06
Riddellasac: to getsignals and slots yes22:07
asacare there any snippets how to do moc stuff for normal automake things that dont want to use qmake?22:07
asacRiddell: what about mainloop and IO stuff?22:07
asacalso qtcore?22:08
Riddelluse the Q_OBJECT macro in the header22:08
asaci general io things like watches on FDs etc.22:08
asacRiddell: so no need for moc run during compile? great! ;)22:08
Riddellyes, mainloop is in qapplication in qtcore, qfile for files and qsocketthing for fd watches22:10
Riddellyou'll need moc if doing signals and slots nand include the gnerated moc file at the bottom22:10
huatsseb128: since when do you release upstream software ? :)22:12
huats(I just saw the gvfs one :))22:12
* seb128 slaps huats22:12
seb128huats, I just did the tarball upload ;-)22:12
Riddelli think when kde used to use automake it had some magic to run moc when needed, with plain automake i guess you just need a maked target22:13
asacRiddell: right if you could find that kde automake thing that would be great.22:14
asacRiddell: so do i usually use .moc as file extension or just .h?22:14
Riddellmoc for the one moc generates22:14
AmpelbeinIs the gnome-keyring update free to take?22:24
seb128Ampelbein, too late I just did it22:26
seb128Ampelbein, you can do glibmm if you want22:26
Ampelbeinseb128: ok, will do that. has anybody ever told you that you are really fast at updating? ;-)22:27
crevetteseb128 is the packaging super-hero22:27
seb128Ampelbein, I've some years of experience in this area ;-)22:30
seb128Ampelbein, there is also cheese to update if you want22:34
seb128pitti, the gvfs is yours to do for tomorrow if you want, it starts being late for me to do that and test now and since you landed many of the changes there22:34
Ampelbeinseb128: ok. having some problem with "bzr bd-do" now: gzip: stdout: Broken pipe; tar: Child returned status 122:35
seb128is your orig tarball working?22:35
seb128ie can you use tar to untar it?22:35
Ampelbeinseb128: yeah, that works.22:37
Ampelbeinseb128: will do manual copy of the debian dir and investigate later22:37
rickspencer31hi robert_ancell23:12
rickspencer31good morning, up early? A little jet lag?23:12
robert_ancellrickspencer31, yeah :)23:13
robert_ancellrickspencer31, nah, it's not too bad23:13
rickspencer31I'm sitting in the dentist waiting room, awaiting my appointment :(23:13
robert_ancellrickspencer31, you've got it worse than me!!23:13
rickspencer31robert_ancell: regarding bug 37213223:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 372132 in nautilus ""Create Document" Templates difficult to use" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37213223:14
rickspencer31If I suggest three documents, is there any reason that you could see not to put the templates in asap?23:14
rickspencer31I'm thinking "Word Processing Document", "Spreadsheet", "Presentation"23:14
robert_ancellI can propose the merge23:15
asacwill those templates be shipped by the apps (e.g. like ooo-writer package ships the word processing document template)?23:16
rickspencer31asac: I think we just drop emplates into a directory23:16
rickspencer31so the templates are shipped by us, not the apps23:17
asacyeah. but those should not be shipped in nautilus, but rather in the application that can deal with them23:17
rickspencer31Am I understanding your question?23:17
rickspencer31I suppose we should tell OOo to install them when it installs itself, and to remove them when it removes itself23:17
asacwell, why not put them in the packages of the apps? in that way you wont see menu entries if the app that can handle them is not installed23:17
rickspencer31asac: sure, that sounds like a fine solution23:18
asacrickspencer31: right. that basically means that OOO should ship the templates itself23:18
asacin particular: ooo-writer -> word processing template, ooo-calc -> spreadsheet template (not sure if thats the right mapping)23:18
rickspencer31fine, but we should put *something* there23:18
asacalso maybe abiword, etc.23:18
asacrickspencer31: thats definitly true23:18
asacso lets add tasks for the apps that should ship templates to the bug23:19
rickspencer31let's just do Word Processing Document, Spreadsheet, Presentation23:19
rickspencer31and just for OOo in Karmic23:19
rickspencer31that will be a substantial improvement without incurring too much work23:19
asacyeah. though i wouldnt stop contributions for others23:19
rickspencer31oops time to go!23:19
asaccu tomorrow23:19
seb128rickspencer31, the main concern from upstream about templates what not what to put there but to have a location open for abuses23:21
seb128we can chat about that later, good luck with the dentist23:21
asacseb128: location for abuses?23:22
seb128asac, the rational against putting that in the application is that lot of applications will want to ship templates23:22
asacseb128: if its a system path the risk sounds acceptable ... having $HOME/. ... one might have some risk23:22
seb128and that you will quickly have 15 entries there23:22
asacseb128: i would think lets first have that problem23:22
asacand then think what we can do23:22
seb128asac, "abuse" in the sense of "too many items will quickly go there and make the menu un-usable"23:22
asacfor now i dont see that many apps that want to ship templates23:23
asacooo*, abi*23:23
asacwhat else would ship something there?23:23
asacif the list grows too long on the default install, we can always remove templates from packages that we think are inappropriate23:23
seb128you will probably quickly have editor dropping template for programming23:23
asacbut why wouldnt you want to offer a template for write/spreadsheet software you have installed?23:23
seb128in anjuta dropping C programs template23:24
seb128java doing the same23:24
asacseb128: yeah. but we can complain and remove from packages23:24
seb128mono doing the same23:24
seb128asac, because I don't use openoffice and I don't want my menu polluted with those23:25
seb128we need a way to filter the system ones from the user UI if we start adding some23:25
asacyeah. but we should first have that problem imo. then we can try to fix that on a social way (e.g. removing stuff) or by making a hierachy, like "top level templates", and "more ..." templates23:25
asacseb128: yeah well. its teh default install, so you could remove ooo23:25
seb128I don't want to remove OO.o some people have account on the same computer and run it23:25
seb128if we add system templates we need some editor to allow users to select those they want or not23:26
asacseb128: personally i think the menu is already nested23:26
asacso its not a problem23:26
asacif it would be on first level on right clickt, that would be bad indeed23:26
asaci guess you rarely use the Create document feature on your own23:27
seb128well I've some custom and useful templates there23:27
seb128I don't want it to be cluttered with speadsheet, oowriter, oocalc, etc23:27
asacseb128: so the menu is currently customizable. so having the ability to disable system templates on a per-user basis would be best)23:27
asacnot sure if we really need that to begin with23:27
seb128well we need to think about it23:27
asacseb128: or custom templates always get shown on top23:27
asacCustome 123:27
asacCUstom 223:27
asacSystem 123:28
asacSystem ...23:28
seb128that has been discussed for a while upstream and alex refused the system template patch for a reason23:28
asacusers that are starters probably dont have custom ones23:28
asacseb128: is there a bug?23:28
seb128read http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2008-June/msg00123.html about that if you want23:28
seb128asac, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.nautilus/3745 is the email from alex against those23:29
seb128"We intentionally avoided that, since it give a load of problems. First23:29
seb128of all all sort of editing gets extremely complicated with merged23:29
seb128directories. Both code-wise and conceptually for the user. Secondly23:29
seb128it'll mean everyone and his dog will install crap there, making a user23:29
seb128interface for removing or overriding system wide templates necessary to23:29
seb128even have a usable template menu.23:29
asac"directory. So you'll never get crap "create XML-foobar document"23:30
asacentries in there that nobody will use. Instead you get to personally23:30
asacpick exactly the templates you use.23:30
asaci understand that argument23:31
asacbut if we want to improve it we need a "customize ..." menu entry right in the Create Document ... folder23:31
seb128http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2008-June/msg00139.html too23:31
asacotherwise no normal user will find it23:31
seb128"I'm worried that people end up with menus like these23:31
seb128 Create Document -> OpenOffice Writer ODF document23:31
seb128                    Abiword ODF document23:31
seb128                    KOffice ODF document23:31
seb128times the number of formats, times the number of different document23:31
asacwell. thats when they install all three solutions23:31
seb128which is a good point, how do you avoid that on system with several desktop installed?23:31
asacpersonally i dont see a problme23:31
seb128well, some computers are multi-users23:32
asacnobody complains that the applications -> Submenu grows similarly23:32
seb128oh they do23:32
seb128we have a talk about menus being cluttered at every uds23:32
asacyeah. but still they dont make the menu empty23:32
asacthey fill it up and then users can remove stuff23:32
seb128well we have a menu editor23:32
asacthats the same approach that should be done here23:32
seb128you have no way to remove system templates right now23:32
asacseb128: yes, but the approach starts with a full glass and not with an empty one ;)23:32
seb128well I don't say it's not solvable23:32
asacseb128: i didnt say that ;)23:33
seb128it's just not as simple as "create the dir, patch nautilus and start throwing things in the directory"23:33
asaci appreciate that you summarized the disussion and provided links23:33
seb128well, I've been reading discussions about that several times over the year23:33
asacthough i wouldnt think its a big problem, really :) ...  i have never seen that menu and i guess most advanced users dont need it ;) ... you for instance could do the same for your custom templates, e.g. create a symlink etc.23:34
seb128so I might be on the other side because I've seen how their turned and upstream disagreeing strongly23:34
seb128well, I just don't like starting adding difference in behaviour which angry upstream23:35
seb128that will only lead to tension when they will get bugs about it especially when they know that the topic has been discussed and they made it clear they think it's not a good thing for their software23:35
asacfrom what i understand its just alex23:35
asacbut i didnt see all discussion23:36
asacso ok23:36
seb128"just", he's the only nautilus maintainer ;-)23:36
asacin any case. we can do it, because we can control what gets installed23:36
seb128davidz agrees with him too23:36
seb128I'm read to bet that you will get the situation with the same templates for openoffice, koffice, abiword quickly23:36
seb128read -> ready23:37
seb128once you have the feature on users from those applications will get those patched to provide templates23:37
asaci just dont think that users having installed openoffice, abiword and koffice should be something we should really care about for now ;)23:37
seb128well that's probably the case on many office or university installs23:38
asaci mean, i dont care for bugabundo's firefox experience because he has installed 56 extensions ;)23:38
Ampelbeinseb128: glibmm ready, doing cheese now.23:38
seb128Ampelbein, cool23:38
asacseb128: yeah. but why does koffice install its template in the location of the gnome file  bropwser?23:38
asacit shouldnt show up in gnome23:38
seb128asac, the suggestion upstream was to use a common locations because some users run kapps under GNOME and other way around23:39
mclasenwhats wrong with having an 'odf document' template ?23:39
mclasenwithout odf in the name, of course23:39
asacdont know if anyone said that in particular was a problem23:40
seb128mclasen, none, but you want the template to be installed with abiword or openoffice23:41
seb128ie if any of those is installed23:41
asac(this is about allowing apps to install their own templates that show up in create document ... in nautilus)23:41
seb128so you need to have stock documents in each package23:41
seb128or a clever way to mask duplicates23:41
mclasenhave a office-templates package that gets pulled in by all of those ?23:41
seb128mclasen, I guess that could work, though they might not support all the same format if you start addict oocalc, etc formats23:42
seb128could get complicated23:43
mclasenalternatively, make nautilus not show templates that have an unsupported mime-type23:43
mclasenor use packagekit to offer installing an app that can handle it...23:43
Ampelbeinseb128: do we want multimedia keys support in cheese? This is a new feature in 2.27.423:44
seb128Ampelbein, sounds good23:44
seb128mclasen, yeah, that should be doable, that just requires some thinking and discussion23:44
seb128asac, which was sort of my point, we should think about potential issues rather than running into the basis changes which have already been discussed and will trigger buggy situations23:46
seb128asac_, re, got disconnected?23:46
seb128asac_, I was saying23:47
seb128<seb128> asac, which was sort of my point, we should think about potential issues rather than running into the basis changes which have already been discussed and will trigger buggy situations23:47
seb128ie it's not a "don't do it" but a "wait guys, that has been discussed already and has issues to consider"23:47
asac_yes. i agree we should first think about where we want to be in the end23:47
asac_then we have to think how we get there23:47
seb128good, we agree ;-)23:48
seb128one thing to think about is what should ship the template, the distribution or sysadmin or the packages when installed23:49
seb128and one other think is how we let users organize that menu if we use a system location23:49
asac_i think that in the end we will have a per-app solution with either smart thing or with easy configurability for the user23:49
seb128during one of the first discussion we had on the topic we discussed copying those to the user directory when the user is added23:50
seb128so it would be easy to clean things for the user23:50
seb128but that has drawbacks too, ie no dynamic changes on updates; need a way to copy those when the user is added and for desktop installs only23:50
asac_right. but if the end solution is that we get something like the gnome menu editor, then we could as well start to do system stuff and keep our eyes open that no packages misuse that (e.g. only those few that we allow get in there until the general problem is fixed)23:50
asac_but if upstream says they dont want to do something like menu editor, then i dont know ;)23:51
asac_maybe a mime + xdg wrapper combination23:51
seb128I don't think the upstream discussions went so far23:51
asac_so you only get one entry per mime-type23:51
asac_and you automatically open the xdg configured default application23:51
seb128they rather argued on whether is was a good idea to let any application be able to clutter your menu23:51
asac_but then the templates are probably not compatible ,)23:51
seb128that's why I suggest coming with a design first23:52
asac_i think its reasonable approach and we should think about that and maybe resurrect upstream discussion23:52
seb128and not running in the "let's drop quickly some templates there"23:52
asac_in the meantime we can either ship the templates for selected apps only, or ship them system wide23:52
asac_but then we should automatically hide them if the associated binary is not avilable23:52
asac_e.g. similar to what preferred applications did for years23:53
seb128well nautilus doesn't even have a system wide location it reads for those now23:53
asac_i think there is no other way than enabling that ... copying to user profile is just a mess and will be a pain to cleanup when the system wide solution becomes available23:56
asac_i think the risk that upstream apps start to install that in the private ubuntu system location is low23:56
seb128not upstream apps23:57
seb128but random ubuntu packages23:57
asac_yeah. but we can make a intermediate policy23:57
asac_everything needs to be approved in desktop team meeting23:57
asac_or something23:57
seb128well there is a valid usecase to have abiword shipping templates23:57
seb128some people don't install openoffice but abiword and they want that feature to work too23:58
seb128if we want to start telling those users they are wrong that will lead to lot of discussions23:58
seb128not there that's worth the win23:58
asac_would you deny abiword to install the template? if they ask in the -desktop meeting?23:58
asac_e.g. is that too much clutter for you already?23:59
asac_just curious to understand what level amount of templates you think would be offending/confusing etc.23:59
seb128no I wouldn't23:59

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