=== asac_ is now known as asac
sridlaunchpad down again? this is frustrating.00:21
ebroderSeems to WFM00:21
sriddown for me since last 2 days00:21
sridloading forever, that is.00:21
Laneyworks here00:21
ebroderSeems snappier than usual to me. Seems like something weird on your end00:22
sridIP addr?00:22
cjwatsonsrid: I suggest #launchpad - they actually have some influence over Launchpad's responsiveness00:22
cjwatsonwe, in general, do not00:22
sriddamn it, it's the damn opera. launchpad loads fine on safari.00:23
sridcjwatson: ok00:23
ebroderCrap - typed too quickly. Can somebody unsub ubuntu-motu from bug #394398?00:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 394398 in open-iscsi "Logic to determine expected number of running session wrong (regression in hardy's open-iscsi 2.0.865-1ubuntu3.1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39439800:26
ajmitchone sec00:26
ajmitchok, it's gone00:26
ajmitchLP still isn't snappy here :)00:26
Laneyit has to travel through quite some tubes to get to you though00:27
ebroderITYM they have to make room on the big truck :)00:28
merkur2khey all00:31
merkur2kanyone here that can give me some help with customizing the installer via a preseed file?00:33
ajmitchebroder: it's more like each packet gets hand-wrapped & taken to NZ on a rowboat00:38
cjwatsonmerkur2k: I can, but I'm just about to go to bed. I suggest asking on #ubuntu-installer during European working hours00:40
cjwatsonmerkur2k: and, if you haven't already, read the preseeding appendix in the installation guide (linked from help.ubuntu.com) first00:40
merkur2kok, it might be a simple one. I am wanting to run a fairly complicated script from preseed/late_command that needs user input, but the installer has its own dialog up that blocks the screen00:41
cjwatsonyou'll need to use debconf if you want to interact with the user; not simple ;-)00:41
merkur2kjust looking for suggestions or ideas for fixes or alternate methods00:41
merkur2kit is too interactive to be able to ask questions in advance00:42
cjwatsoncan talk you through the issues and possible fixes tomorrow or whatever00:42
cjwatsondebconf doesn't necessarily mean in advance00:42
merkur2kat the very least it would just be nice to have some progress feedback other than "running preseed command"00:43
merkur2kbut have a good sleep, i will be around00:44
twbGiven an arbitrary source package (e.g. darcs) and release (e.g. feisty), how can I find out if there is a PPA or backport for a recent version of that package for that release?02:39
twbThat is plan B.02:40
twbI had the impression that Launchpad had some sort of predictable naming scheme for PPAs02:40
ebroderNot really. They're arbitrary02:40
twbBummer, thanks.02:41
ebroderPeople creating PPAs for backports usually create a team with a name similar to the package, e.g. https://launchpad.net/~git-core02:41
ebroderBut that's entirely at the maintainer's discretion02:41
pittiGood morning06:53
StevenKMorning pitti06:54
StevenKpitti: So, lool wanted me to fix clutter to build a .pot. I've added langpack.mk to it's rules file, is that all I have to do?06:55
pittiStevenK: that should do; build log will tell :)06:56
StevenKpitti: But the .pot doesn't turn up anywhere?06:58
StevenKpitti: I can pastebin the build log, if you wish06:58
pittiStevenK: then it apparently doesn't use standard intltool?06:58
pittiStevenK: I just wonder why clutter has translatable strings in the first place; isn't it just a graphics lib?06:59
pittipochu: the total ddeb archive size is 164 GB, 6 arches, 5 releases07:00
* pitti cleans up gutsy07:00
* StevenK waits for fbreader to finish building07:01
StevenKpitti: I'm not sure about a delta from Debian for the removal of -qt and -maemo07:01
* ScottK decides not to wait for kdesdk to build and goes to bed.07:01
pittiStevenK: lool reviewed clutter and didn't complain about a missing pot07:02
StevenKpitti: See later comment07:02
pittilaga: devkit-power is already used, yes; pm-utils needs to grow support for quirks, it's on the TODO list (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy)07:05
pittilaga: most devices today shouldn't need quirks any more, but it's still needed for old hw07:05
dholbachgood morning07:06
StevenKpitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/216679/07:12
pittiStevenK: looks good07:15
pittihey dholbach! *hug*07:15
* dholbach hugs pitti back07:16
dholbachhi thekorn07:16
thekornhey dholbach07:17
superm1hi pitti.  so with the old HAL world, I was able to prevent partitions from being exposed in nautilus as user mountable with a nice FDI file.  with devicekit-disks, does similar functionality carry over?07:17
pittisuperm1: yes, there is; this is just being re-added, see https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2270707:19
ubottuFreedesktop bug 22707 in detection "Set DKD_PRESENTATION_HIDE for unwanted partitions" [Normal,Assigned]07:19
pittisuperm1: also, bug 39408807:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 394088 in devicekit-disks "Ignore EFI partition on Intel Macs" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39408807:20
superm1pitti, ah spectacular.07:20
superm1yeah i was gonna point out that dell utility partitions are getting mounted and shown too which brought it to my attention07:20
pittisuperm1: our /lib/udev/rules.d/95-devkit-disks.rules already has an earlier version of that patch07:20
superm1which reading through is already in your comments from a few days ago07:20
pittisuperm1: could you try the patch on the fd.o bug and verify that this covers it?07:21
pittiyou can just apply it to /lib/udev/rules.d/95-devkit-disks.rules and reboot or udevadm trigger07:21
superm1pitti, yeah i should be able to tomorrow morning07:21
pittiunfortunately I wiped my recovery partition in a sad accident07:22
superm1well the utility partition and recovery partitions are different beasts though07:22
pittitried to dd an image to my USB stick and accidentally picked sda..07:23
superm1after things are sorted for the utility partition, i'm planning on having a third party rule that will be part of the recovery media creation tool on factory shipped ubuntu and rhel6 systems07:23
superm1ah that'd do it07:23
pittisuperm1: that would work; you should put it into /etc/udev/rules.d/07:25
superm1pitti, well it comes part of an installed system in a proper deb or rpm07:26
pittiah, ok; /lib then07:26
superm1normally i'd say it's best to just put it in that upstream devdisk-disks.rules, but unfortunately the partition naming scheme clashes with that of the one for windows factory shipped systems and would cause people with a windows factory shipped system to not have access to their data from linux in a dual boot scenario07:28
StevenKpitti: So, I've done everything for fbreader aside from the i18n, since I have no idea how to sprinkle in a standard intltool build system07:33
pittiStevenK: that'd indeed be a more intrusive patch, and you should really check with upstream first that they'd take it07:34
StevenKpitti: Right.07:34
StevenKpitti: So does fbreader have a hope of getting approved without i18n?07:35
pittiStevenK: well, if you need it in mobile, sure07:35
pittibut as I said, it's really an ugly wart07:35
pittiand I really recommend fixing it07:35
pittisure, it's a day of work, but if you consider it an important use case, it's well worth it07:36
pittithe intltool build system is easy to do07:36
pittimost of the work is writing some python code to generate .po files from the existing xml files07:36
pittisuperm1: just uploaded a new dk-disks with current ignore rules07:39
pitti(needed for NBSing out libsgutils2 anyway)07:40
StevenKpitti: fbreader uploaded08:09
StevenKpitti: Bug task slammed back to New, too08:12
loolStevenK: +include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/langpack.mk08:58
loolStevenK: that's not mergeable in Debian AFAIK08:58
loolStevenK: You could have used -include foo to the same effect, but that would have been mergeable in Debian; I fixed clutter/clutter-gtk in Debian's pkg-gnome SVN to include gnome.mk instead of autotools.mk which should pull in langpack.mk automatically08:59
pitti( ^ confirmed)08:59
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
StevenKlool: Okay, I'll fix them both soonish09:23
ograis my system supposed to drop out of usplash after finding the initramfs with the last kernel update or did i just see a race ?09:34
=== luisbg_ is now known as luisbg
chrisccoulsonhi asac10:26
=== ara_ is now known as ara
coolbhavido ppa's and archives use different buildd's?10:35
Nafallocoolbhavi: yes10:35
coolbhaviNafallo, please take a look: package is building on my ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~bhavi/+archive/bhavi-upstream-testing/+build/1116212 but ftbfs on archive buildd: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28954351/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.libselinux_2.0.82-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz10:38
Nafallocoolbhavi: ehrm. why would I be a good person to look at that?10:38
Keybukpitti: quick reply to your mail10:38
Keybukpitti: the Mini 9 has an SSD, I/O seek and load times are _rarely_ an issue10:38
coolbhaviNafallo, okay anyone please guide am confused now..10:39
pittiKeybuk: well, cold vs. hot cache makes a _tremendous_ difference for gnome-panel, so I wondered how big of an impact it has on ssd10:39
seb128pitti, most of the gnome-panel start time on my laptop is the menu building10:40
seb128ie it starts in 1.5s rather than 6s when there is no .desktop installed10:41
pittiseb128: right, I aked Key to time gnome-menus-ls.py with cold and hot cache10:41
pittifor me that's 10s (cold) vs. 0.1 (hot)10:41
pittiseb128: that's what I discussed with vuntz on LinuxTag10:41
Keybukpitti: will do that this morning :-)10:41
pittiKeybuk: it's not urgent (I won't actually get to this in the next weeks), but I'm curious10:42
pittiKeybuk: thanks10:42
coolbhavipitti, can you please help me? /me scratches his head10:43
pitticoolbhavi: I guess your PPA package was built earlier, and a new kernel broke it or so?10:43
coolbhavipitti, okay now what to do?10:44
pitticoolbhavi: I didn't look into it yet, it probably nees a small fix for current linux-libc-dev10:45
Keybukpitti: I'm doing the i386 vs. i586 performance tests this morning, easy enough to slip that one in as well10:45
pittiKeybuk: oh, does that make a significant difference?10:45
Keybukpitti: I'll tell you when I've done the tests10:45
pittigood luck10:45
Keybukit certainly did with the last set of test CDs we made10:45
Keybukbut we think we made those wrong :p10:45
Keybukthe last test proved that the new gcc + i586 makes a much faster install than the old gcc + i386 ;)10:46
coolbhavipitti, okay, in the archive or in the source that I kept for sponsoring?10:46
pitticoolbhavi: in libselinux10:47
seb128hey coolbhavi10:47
seb128coolbhavi, thanks for your work on the pango update10:47
coolbhaviokay pitti hey seb128 no mention10:48
coolbhavipitti, sorry for the mistake I created10:48
pitticoolbhavi: don't worry; it wasn't a mistake, just a timing issue10:48
pittithese things are perfectly normal in a dev release which changes as fast as Karmic10:48
pitticoolbhavi: the original version would be FTBFS as well now, so it's a completely new issue10:49
coolbhaviI changed the cflag thing and tested it on my PPA it built so I created a diff10:50
coolbhavipitti, now also I tested out on my PPA its building fine10:52
coolbhavibut I didnt think it would ftbfs in the archive10:52
lagapitti: ok, thanks for the input re devicekit and quirks. i read an email from the pm-utils guy from last year saying that he didn't want the quirks in pm-utils, i guess that has changed then10:56
pittilaga: well, it has to10:57
pittinothign except pm-utils is using them10:57
ograpitti, any chance we get the drum sound back into gdm at some point ?10:57
pittiogra: I consider that a feature :-P10:57
* ogra doesnt 10:57
pittianyway, would need to be hacked into the simple greeter10:58
ograi like that i can hear when my system is done booting without watching the screen10:58
pittibut DX has some plans for this greeter anyway, I think10:58
ograand i gues TheMuso likes that too :)10:58
TheMusoogra: Yeah I have been meaning to look into that. It may be a matter of tweaking the default sound theme for the gdm session.11:00
ograyeah, i bet its not to hard11:00
pittiah, indeed11:00
pittiI keep forgetting that it's a normal gnome session now11:01
loolpitti: I made the same remark to kirkland about the cron job which should move to PAM (slangasek was complaining about the usage of a cron which spams syslog°11:01
loolpitti: I think the issue was that you need to update more frequently than on each login, perhaps to display up-to-date information when displaying it within screen for instance11:01
TheMusoAfter all, pulseaudio gets run by GDM, and if you press the backspace key in the password field, you get a sound.11:02
loolpitti: But I didn't confirm that; perhaps this information should simply be updated whenever it's needed rather than regularly though; I agree11:02
pittilool: but then screen should directly display the load11:02
pittiinstead of jumping through the python/cron -> motd -> read motd hoop11:02
pittia static file is simply not the right thing for this kind of information which updates every second11:03
pitti(also, why do we need a load, etc. in motd in the first place?)11:03
loolpitti: It's not just the load, it's a bunch of things like e.g. number of packages which are update-able11:04
pittilool: right, but that can be updated in the apt cronjob11:04
pittiit just feels like throwing a lot of resources into trying to feed dynamic information into a static file11:05
loolpitti: I don't want to dive into specifics; I made the same high level remarks than you did, but I don't use it11:05
loolTo answer this fully, I would have to check every plugin and see how it could be made efficient11:06
loolI agree with you on APT updates and on load; I don't know what else is involved11:06
Keybukpitti: replied with numbers11:28
pittiKeybuk: wow, SSD has quite an effect11:28
KeybukSSD has the effect of eliminating "hot cache" issues from your performance tests11:29
pittiit's a worthwhile optimization for spinning disks still11:29
Keybuksince it's almost as fast to read from the SSD as it is from the page cache11:29
Keybukbut that's not the problem I see11:29
Keybukthe problem I see is that there are still fundmental performance issues with gnome-panel *after* you eliminate the I/O problem11:29
seb128it's named libbonobo11:30
seb128and sync calls11:30
Keybuksync calls wouldn't show up as CPU time11:31
seb128how much cpu usage do you get?11:32
KeybukI don't have a recent chart to hand, but it's a fair amount11:33
seb128ok, I've no been looking at that because it was so small on my chart compared to disk use11:34
seb128but I'm using a regular disk11:34
seb128and 80% of the gnome-panel start here is ios11:34
Keybukright, when you're using a regular disk, the I/O wait and load times is what will show up11:34
pittihm, an autoreconf in gnome-panel adds "SHAVE_INIT(., enable)11:34
pitti" to configure11:34
pittiwhich fails11:34
Keybukseb128: ah, be careful11:34
Keybukdon't fall into *that* trap11:34
pittidoes that ring a bell with anyone?11:34
seb128pitti, no11:35
james_wpitti: it fails with a syntax error in configure?11:35
Keybukseb128: if a process is waiting for I/O, it'll show up as I/O wait11:35
pittijames_w: yes11:35
Keybukeven if it's caning the CPU at the same time for something else11:36
james_wpitti: check Makefile.am has "ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS = -I m4"11:36
seb128Keybuk, ah, I didn't know that11:36
Keybukso the "80% is I/O" just means that on a rotary disk, you spend 80% of your time in I/O wait11:36
pittijames_w: find -name Makefile.am | xargs grep ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS -> nothing11:36
Keybukif you take away the I/O, it often doesn't speed it up by removing that11:36
Keybukyou just expose what else it was doing while it was waiting for I/O11:36
Keybukoften in another thread, etc.11:36
seb128Keybuk, ok, it will just unmask the cpu use11:36
seb128I see11:37
james_wpitti: if there is m4/*.m4 then try adding that line, it fixed it in other packages11:37
pittijames_w: to all 25 Makefile.am files? *sigh*11:37
james_wpitti: just ./Makefile.am should work11:37
* pitti sobs at autotools breakage the 23948234th time11:37
james_wpitti: then autoreconf11:37
seb128pitti, in configure.ac is usually enough11:37
james_wfwiw, autoreconf tells you that you should do this :-)11:38
seb128it has "AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4])" already11:38
pittijames_w: autoreconf outputs several hundred lines, admittedly I didn't read them all11:38
Keybukif autoreconf outputs more than a dozen lines, you probably have a problem :p11:39
seb128pitti, "libtoolize: Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am." is displayed indeed11:39
james_wadmittedly only if you run with -v and work out that that particular message is the one you should pay attention to11:40
pittijames_w, seb128: I think that helped; thanks!11:40
seb128that's the only message from autotools11:41
seb128the flood is for the documentation which you don't really care about11:41
pittiyay, gnome-panel configured, building now11:42
dholbachwho'd like to run a session on merging at UDW? or about anything else ubuntu-develop-y?11:52
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has some open slots11:52
StevenKHmmm. How do I change CPU frequency scaling?11:52
ograStevenK, you cant anymore11:52
ograits builtin ...11:52
lagaogra: so there is only one governor?11:53
StevenKBut I don't want this machine to be running at 2GHz11:53
ograat least the governor is hardcoded now11:53
wgrantStevenK: The GNOME Panel frequency scaling applet will let you change things temporarily.11:53
lagaogra: it might still be possible to change to governor in /sys11:53
StevenKI wasn't after temporarily, either. :-)11:54
wgrantIs ondemand not sufficient to reduce it?11:54
ograStevenK, it is set to performance during initramfs and should switch to ondemand after boot11:54
ogracheck if its at ondemand now11:54
StevenKHow do I check?11:54
ograif not, file a kernel bug11:54
StevenKSince that's one of the things I'm not clear on11:55
ogracat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor11:56
ograshould be ondemand11:57
ScottKpitti: Is there a wiki page on how to make multimedia keys work in Karmic?  I've got a Dell Mini 10v that's not very happy in that department and I'd like to look into it.12:25
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
alkisgasac, just notifying that I'll be here for the next few hours, in case you'd like feedback on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/39104012:30
ubottuUbuntu bug 391040 in network-manager "When eth0 is unmanaged, system connections for other NICs aren't displayed nor used" [Medium,Triaged]12:30
StevenKpitti: You'll look at fbreader today?12:42
StevenKlool: So, should I undo the change to clutter-gtk, and fix clutter to use gnome.mk?12:43
loolStevenK: I guess it's ok as long as the person doing the clutter/clutter-gtk merges know that the langpack include can be dropped12:46
loolStevenK: I had in mind to do a couple of Debian uploads and then ask for syncs, but didn't have time yet; I guess we'll get the changes after next upstream release12:47
StevenKlool: Well, I screwed it up, so I should fix it.12:48
loolStevenK: It's not very screwed up, just a bit inelegant; if you like to fix it, perhaps you can do a merge from a snapshot of the SVN packages?12:51
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
pittiStevenK: okay; so mobile team (you, lool, etc.) are fine with broken translations?13:20
loolpitti: Which one?13:20
pittiScottK: incidentally I just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Troubleshooting for Karmic last week :)13:20
pittilool: fbreader13:22
pittilool: it doesn't use gettext, but translated xml files13:22
ScottKpitti: Thanks.  I'll have a look.13:23
tseliotcjwatson: I managed to get the debian installer to install my product-check udeb (to check hardware and halt the installer) but the script in lib/debian-installer-startup.d doesn't seem to be called: https://pastebin.canonical.com/19636/13:25
tseliotcjwatson: am I supposed to tell which script the installer should use in debian-installer-startup.d ?13:26
=== rmcbride_ is now known as rmcbride
loolpitti: That sounds bad13:30
dpmpitti: lool, StevenK: if the decision is to go with xml translations (I'd prefer gettext as well, but I realise this might require some work and coordination with upstream), I'll tell Ubuntu translators that at least they can translate the xml files and also send them to upstream - or maybe someone from the community might want to have a go at adding gettext support to fbreader upstream13:32
cjwatsontseliot: name shouldn't matter. To debug it I suggest booting with BOOT_DEBUG=3, exiting the *first* shell you get (but not the second), and stepping through what /sbin/debian-installer-startup would do by hand13:32
pittilool, dpm: adding gettext support and changing the build system doesn't actually sound hard; one just needs to write a script to translate the existing .xml files to .po files13:32
tseliotcjwatson: it's an automated installation and after I choose it, there's no way to exit. Or are you suggesting some CTRL+ALT+F1?13:34
cjwatsontseliot: so make it not automated for the purposes of debugging! :-)13:35
cjwatsontseliot: i.e. boot the installer with BOOT_DEBUG=3 on the kernel command line to see what it's doing13:35
cjwatsontseliot: when you do that, it will give you the shells I mentioned, regardless of any automation13:36
loolpitti: I think gettext has some support for XML; but I have no idea whether it applies here13:36
dpmpitti, lool: do you mean that the most work would be simply in writing a one-time script to convert the existing xml files to PO in order to reuse existing translations? I thought the most (or at least most intrusive) work would be to add gettext support (the code uses string id's instead of the English strings)13:37
pittilool: no, that's just intltool13:37
pittidpm: right13:37
pittidpm: as far as  I can see, all strings are defined in a single .c file, in a string_constant = blabla('string') manner13:37
pittitrivial to wrap that in a _()13:38
loolpitti: I think xgettext can read Glade files13:38
dpmpitti: they are in several files (although I guess that's not important), but I think the problem is that string id's are used instead of the English texts. If we wrap them in _() we're going to get the id's as msgids13:39
pittidpm: right, the English strings need to go into that file13:40
tseliotcjwatson: it looks like s37speakup fails with "line 1: cannot open /proc/cmdline: no such file" then debian-installer-startup exits13:41
dduckare here ubuntu developers?13:41
dpmpitti: I'm not sure I can follow. So you're proposing:13:44
dpm1) adding gettext support to the code13:44
dpm2) replace the string id's in the code by the English strings in the .cpp file where those are defined13:45
dpm3) wrap those replaced strings in _()13:45
loolReplacing the string ids sounds like a large diff13:46
pittithat's why I said that this should be cleared with upstream first13:46
pittiit's much easier to do that one-time (with the xml->po conversion), etc.13:46
dpmpitti, lool: ok, I understand it now, thanks. For me 1) is the gray area, since I don't know how the xml strings are loaded at the moment and I don't really now how much work would be to get rid of their own special l10n system and replace it by gettext13:48
pittidpm: I suppose it's a manday of work in total13:49
pittibut, it's really only worth it if upstream takes it13:49
pittimaintaining that large delta forever would be a PITA13:50
tseliotcjwatson: that happens because /proc is still empty13:51
dpmpitti: lool, StevenK: would anyone from the mobile team be willing to do this work for fbreader if I contact upstream (maybe some Ubuntu translators might want to help as well)?13:55
loolStevenK: ^13:56
cjwatsontseliot: sounds as though you ignored my advice to exit the first shell straight away, and use the second one it gives you13:57
cjwatsontseliot: the first shell is immediately before /proc is mounted13:57
tseliotcjwatson: I can get to the isolinux (boot) screen and to a second shell in which I can select the automatic installation (which then I customise to pass it BOOT_DEBUG=3). Is it wrong?14:00
cjwatsonon the isolinux boot screen, press F6 to get to extra options14:00
cjwatsonadd BOOT_DEBUG=3 to the kernel parameters there14:00
cjwatsonpress enter14:00
cjwatsonwait until you get a Unix shell14:00
cjwatsontype 'exit'14:00
cjwatsonyou will get another Unix shell14:00
cjwatsondo your work there14:00
StevenKdpm: I would be, yes.14:05
dpmStevenK: then I'll contact upstream with the proposal and you on CC. Depending on what they say, I'll then also tell Ubuntu translators, since some of them might be able to contribute to the technical work. Sounds ok?14:15
=== The_Company is now known as Company
ScottKjdstrand: Just about to upload clamav with your apparmor change.  I didn't get to it over the weekend.14:19
jdstrandScottK: oh np. there is no rush on that-- it is just sometime during the cycle14:21
ScottKRight. It was mostly I said I'd do it over the weekend and then didn't.14:22
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
tseliotcjwatson: F6 doesn't seem to do anything on the isolinux boot screen14:25
tseliotcjwatson: never mind, I got to the 2nd shell14:28
ogradoko, the debian package has the same upstream version, i thought it was an upstream change14:28
ogra(re binutils)14:29
ogradoko, the differentce is that debian builds with gcc-4.314:29
cjwatsontseliot: ok14:30
dokoogra: the debian package doesn't have the patch applied14:31
ograoh, i thought it was accepted upstream14:31
=== evanrmurphy_ is now known as evanrmurphy
tseliotcjwatson: it looks like my script is not in /lib/debian-installer-startup.d/ and this is why it's not called.14:34
tseliotcjwatson: currently I make sure that it's installed by adding the package to the list in pkg-lists/local14:34
tseliotmaybe the package is installed after debian-installer-startup14:35
cjwatsontseliot: no, pkg-lists is entirely processed at build-time not run-time14:38
cjwatsontseliot: I don't know why your udeb wasn't included; check the d-i build log14:39
tseliotcjwatson: ok, thanks14:39
StevenKdpm: Sorry, I was AFK. That sounds great.15:08
dpmStevenK: np, cool, I'll do that, then.15:09
=== akgraner_ is now known as akgraner
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk
smoseranyone else seeing timeouts on keyserver.ubuntu.com ?15:52
smoseron --send-keys, i'm getting "gpg: keyserver timed out" and "gpg: keyserver send failed: keyserver error"15:53
kirklandpitti: yo16:33
ogra...ghurt ?16:33
ionMay the Schwartz be with you16:34
pittihey kirkland, good morning16:34
kirklandpitti: howdy howdy16:35
kirklandpitti: so you're hating on update-motd as a daemon :-)16:35
pittiion: Mr. Coffee or Mr. Radar?16:35
liwkirkland, he's not the only one16:35
pittikirkland: well, it's a very large club to slam a small problem :)16:35
kirklandpitti: i can revert the upload, but i need to figure out what an acceptable approach might be to all parties16:35
kirklandliw: lool: right, i appreciate your views too :-)16:35
* liw rejects the entire notion of automatically editing /etc/motd to start with :)16:36
pittikirkland: perhaps we should step back for a while16:36
pittikirkland: what is the actual goal? displaying system stats on login?16:36
pittikirkland: since I don't think that modifying /etc/motd is your actual goal, it's just one way to reach your actual goal16:36
pittikirkland: if you want to display system stats on login, wouldn't that be so much easier to do directly in an optional pam module?16:37
kirklandpitti: i don't think it's about the stats at all, at this point16:37
kirklandpitti: the goal is to provide the system administrator, as well as other packages, a method to dynamically inject interesting information into the MOTD16:37
pittimodifying a static system configuration file every 5 seconds seems like an approach that can only result in weird hacks?16:38
pittikirkland: again, into /etc/motd, or for an user to see when he logs in?16:38
kirklandpitti: as for the system stats, they are inherently always stale (which was part of the motivation for the byobu-approach to delivering such system stats)16:38
pitti(since the latter can be done with a pam module, and doesn't need motd)16:38
kirklandpitti: fair enough16:39
kirklandpitti: we considered that approach back in August16:39
pittikirkland: I'm just trying to understand what you actually want to achieve16:39
kirklandpitti: i'm happy to revisit it though, as it's been almost a year16:39
pittiand obviously I don't know all the history16:39
kirklandpitti: the objection to pam (actually, it was /etc/profile.d that we examined) was that it could introduce a delay on login, gathering such statistics16:39
liwkirkland, what is the goal of modifying motd?16:40
kirklandpitti: particularly the calculation of the updates available16:40
pittikirkland: well, that's an one-time 0.1 second penalty, as opposed to the permanent penalty you pay by having a resident python daemon..16:40
kirklandpitti: i suppose we could handle those particular cases with appropriate caching16:40
pittikirkland: well, I'm not saying that you should swing to the other extreme and calculate _everything_ on the fly :)16:40
loolkirkland: Concerning available updates, there's a daily cron, perhaps you could hook into that?16:40
pittikirkland: e. g. the apt cron job could write that information into a cache, and load etc. is cheap to calculate16:41
kirklandlool: yeah, just catting /var/run/updates-available would be the cheapest alternative16:41
pittikirkland: you could still have a motd.d/ with scripts, which are run by that pam module16:41
pittiand one would just display apt's cache file, the other would output the load, etc.16:41
pittibut then motd could remain static, cause less headache to admins who modify it (and backup systems), and avoids all the cron/daemon stuff16:42
tseliotcjwatson: it looks like my package is only added to the packages pool (in binary/pool/main/p ) but it's not installed. Maybe I should use anna-install to make sure that the package is installed?16:42
kirklandliw: motd = message of the day, but it's no where near that dynamic in its non-update-motd implementation16:43
liwkirkland, I know what motd is, and I know it is semi-useless for providing info to people... so what is your goal in modifying it? :)16:44
kirklandpitti: okay, so drop the cronjobs, drop the daemon;  replace it all with a compiled-c pam module that runs every time a user logs in that executes each of the update-motd scripts, concatenating the results16:44
kirklandliw: to make it more useful16:45
pittikirkland: for efficiency it could provide some standard stuff itself, such as load16:45
pittikirkland: but well, it shouldn't matter that much16:45
pittilogin, with all the profile.d/, ecryptfs, etc. stuff is so slow that it would hardly matter16:45
pittikirkland: if that'd be feasible, I would certainly like it much better personally; however, what do _you_ think?16:46
kirklandpitti: you think it's better as a pam module?  because it would be like a 5-line script in profile.d ?16:46
vadi2I'm not sure where to report this, but the rafal.ca mirror has a 404 on the update manager kde version 0.111.8 for jaunty16:46
pittikirkland: oh, if profile.d/ works, so much the better16:46
pittikirkland: right, that already has legal.sh16:47
pittikirkland: great, that's even easier :)16:47
pittikirkland: so, /etc/profile.d/ubuntu-system-info.sh should be all you need?16:48
cjwatsontseliot: putting it in pkg-lists/local should have caused it to be included in your image. anna-install will *not help you at all*, nor will *any run-time methods*.16:49
kirklandpitti: i think it would make more sense to keep sysinfo a consumer of a generic update-motd script in profile.d16:49
kirklandpitti: i've gotten a few random emails from people telling me how they're using update-motd for their unique situations16:49
pittikirkland: "sysinfo" is the landscape thingy in your context?16:50
kirklandpitti: but if you're okay with that approach, so am i16:50
kirklandpitti: yes, landscape-sysinfo is one consumer of update-motd16:50
pittikirkland: sure, I don't mind one more level of indirection16:50
kirklandpitti: cool, i'll run with this16:50
kirklandpitti: until someone else slams me for that approach :-D16:50
pittikirkland: so in summary, it needs an extension to the apt cronjob to cache the package updates, and then just another profile.d/ script? perfect16:51
pittikirkland: I'll come to your defense then :)16:51
kirklandpitti: i think the apt cronjob already does that?16:51
kirklandpitti: i thought i worked with mvo on that in Jaunty, for screen-profiles and byobu?16:51
kirklandpitti: my "requirement" was that /var/run/updates-available be "as current as the last apt run"16:51
pittimmmm retroactive features :)16:52
kirklandpitti: where either that was the cronjob apt16:52
pittikirkland: /var/run wouldn't work so well for this, though16:52
pittiit should be in /var/cache16:52
kirklandpitti: or your last apt-get update manually16:52
pittisince /var/run is cleaned on boot16:52
pittiI don't have that file there16:52
pittisince I rebooted two hours ago16:52
kirklandpitti: ah16:52
pittibut in /var/cache it should be perfect16:52
kirklandpitti: cool, i'll get with mvo on this one16:53
* pitti ^5s kirkland, thanks so much16:53
kirklandpitti: okay, thanks16:53
superm1pitti, it appears the updated udev rule in devkit disks you uploaded fixes utility partitions properly17:06
superm1I adapted the rule for what factory shipped linux systems should look like.  by specifying the partition number I don't suspect it should clash with windows factory shipped systems.  do you think this should go upstream too, http://pastebin.com/f17bffd6c ?17:07
mvokirkland: I changed the code in u-n to use /var/lib/update-notifier/updates-available now17:10
=== so is now known as simon-o
loolKeybuk: hola17:18
Keybuklool: what's up?17:18
loolKeybuk: libnih seems to cause upstart to timeout on ARM17:18
loolKeybuk: the test_node.c file seems too big17:18
=== maxb_ is now known as maxb
loolKeybuk: I couldn't decide whether it's generated17:18
Keybukit's not generated17:18
loolIt's 16k lines17:18
loolKeybuk: Could we split it?17:18
Keybukogra filed a bug report, it caused gcc to crash for him17:18
Keybukbesides, there are bigger files17:18
Keybukthere's a ~50,000 line file not long after17:18
ograKeybuk, yes, but thats apparently a HW issue on my side17:18
loolKeybuk: Indeed; that's worrying17:19
Keybukwhy would it take >2.5hrs to compile that file?17:19
loolKeybuk: Is this something new?17:19
ograits either ld's fault of the system running out of ram17:19
NCommanderKeybuk, if its paging out, it might cause the issue. I've seen that when trying to build KDE on the NSLU217:19
Keybuklool: "new" ?17:19
loolKeybuk: Did you recently introduced large files?17:19
ogralool, the whole 0.6 upstart is *new* :)17:19
KeybukNCommander: well, we know that the current I/O scheduler is fucked and can permanently defer forever things using too much I/O :)17:19
ograwe had 0.3 until now17:19
loolIt only took 10 minutes in jaunty17:20
Keybuklool: right, as ogra said; 0.6 is basically a rewrite17:20
NCommanderKeybuk, we've had issues w/ that before with libipc-sharelite-perl17:20
loolKeybuk: Did < 0.6 have large source files as well?17:20
loolKeybuk: I'm trying to decide whether it's a regression the toolchain17:20
Keybuklool: some relatively large source files in the test suite, yes17:20
looljaunty's upstart built relatively fast: Build needed 00:10:48, 22740k disk space17:20
Keybukjaunty's upstart had fewer tests17:20
loolIt didn't have test_node.c though17:20
ograyou cant compare them17:20
Keybuklool: it didn't link to libdbus either17:21
* NCommander wonders how much swap the buildds have ...17:21
NCommanderrimu has a little under 1.5GB worth of swap; I think the buildds are setup the same ...17:23
loolKeybuk: Couldn't we split at least the test_path_valid/test_new/test_start_tag etc. into separate files?17:24
Keybuklool: no, the test suite doesn't work that way17:24
looltest_proxy_functions is the huge function; 10k lines17:24
loolKeybuk: What do you suggest?17:25
Keybuklool: fix gcc17:25
Keybukhell, I thought we had commercial engagements with the maintainers of the gcc ARM port for precisely this reason17:26
superm1Keybuk, ping.  I missed you last week, so I'll retry: I'm having a hard time figuring out something going on with a udev rule.  [ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="bluetooth", RUN+="/usr/sbin/bluetoothd --udev"] is the rule.  it works fine if the device is hotplugged, but not if the system boots up with the device plugged in.  Any ideas?17:30
Keybuksuperm1: /usr not mounted when the system is booted?17:32
superm1Keybuk, so shouldn't udev be retrying any failed rules then?17:32
superm1but that sounds like a sensible reasoning17:32
Keybuksuperm1: no, it doesn't17:32
superm1is there any way to specify in said rule then to defer running it until /usr gets mounted?17:33
=== dpm is now known as dpm-afk
Keybuksuperm1: no17:38
Keybuksuperm1: indeed, such things are deliberately not permitted17:38
Keybukbluetoothd should probably be in / anyway?17:38
superm1Keybuk, oh well when you were saying /usr I was thinking you meant / (and /usr being on /). It is in /17:39
Keybukdunno then17:40
Keybukwhat does your logs say?17:40
superm1well I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get verbose logs from during boot. the init script makes it look like they should be ending up /dev/.udev/, but I'm not seeing logs there17:42
superm1/var/log/udev definitely does show an add event for a device on the bluetooth subsystem17:43
=== iulian is now known as Guest22306
=== WelshDragon is now known as YDdraigGoch
Sarvattit isnt loading v4l devices at boot for me and a bunch of people too (no webcams)17:48
Keybuksuperm1: right, I'm betting /usr/sbin/bluetoothd is failing in some strange way18:00
Keybukie. that it's not a udev bug18:00
Keybukprobably tries to write to the filesystem or something18:00
superm1well they've got it working in fedora devel with this udev rule, so I was leaning towards some type of integration problem here. i'll try'n switch it out with a daemon that I know should work then18:03
Keybukrun a shell script around it and capture the output?18:03
pittisuperm1: cool, thanks18:04
superm1can't write to the filesystem that early though can you?18:04
cjwatsonuse /dev/18:04
pittisuperm1: hm, "OS" seems prone to false positives18:04
cjwatson/dev/.initramfs/ for example18:05
pittisuperm1: in that generality I think it'd be better to do as an OEM rule18:05
superm1pitti, okay will keep it that way then thanks18:05
pittisuperm1: no chance to slam a "special" partition type to it?18:11
superm1pitti, it unfortunately really is a vfat partition18:11
pittisuperm1: like 27?18:11
pittisuperm1: sure, but vfat is the file system18:11
superm1dellutility really is a special type that has other data embedded in it18:12
pittisuperm1: it could still be partition type 27, as opposed to 06 or 0b18:12
Ngam I the only person seeing ubuntu-bug cause ff35 to crash in karmic? it looks to be spinning up a new instance of ff which immediately crashes :/18:24
NgI've asked a couple of other karmic users and they are able to file bugs fine with ubuntu-bug and ff3518:24
* Caesar just read #38932218:34
Caesarpitti: what's your preferred way forward for bug 389322 on Hardy?18:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 389322 in pidgin "Yahoo server authentication changed: Pidgin =<2.5.6 will not connect to Yahoo! servers." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38932218:35
=== MobileMyles6o7 is now known as TwoToneSpirit
ScottKCaesar: IIRC there's a fixed package in hardy-proposed.18:35
pittiCaesar: hm, someone backporting the fix and sending it to the bug? :-)18:36
pittiScottK: only in jaunty-updates18:36
ScottKAh.  Misemembered.18:36
Caesarpitti: so you're cool with a honking great big debdiff?18:36
pittiCaesar: whatever works; jaunty-proposed debdiff was huge, too18:37
CaesarYeah, so I saw18:38
pittibut if it only touches the yahoo protocol, it can hardly get any worse18:38
Laneyif you can succeed where I failed, please go ahead18:38
CaesarOkay, I'll see about cooking up a debdiff18:38
LaneyCaesar: I'll send you what I got if you like18:38
pittiCaesar: gret, thanks!18:38
LaneyI just couldn't get it to work18:38
CaesarLaney: sure18:38
CaesarI think we have some Pidgin developers on staff18:38
CaesarSo they might be able to help18:38
LaneyI think I deleted it ¬_¬18:39
CaesarLaney: no biggie18:39
Laneythe simple backport didn't work anyway, kept throwing nss problems18:40
Laneybut good luck18:41
jsteelHi. I'm trying to build a custom kernel with a patch to support the latest winbond watchdog. I run `fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=-custom kernel_image kernel_headers` and everything works great except the /lib comes out to be 1.1GB. Compare that to the 100-200MB that the server image creates in lib. Does anybody know how to make my image smaller? Whats the magical incantation to make?19:43
=== fbond_ is now known as fbond
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk
BUGabundopitti: around? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/38968620:12
ubottuUbuntu bug 389686 in metacity "compiz --replace fails to kill metacity, resulting in cpu overload" [High,Triaged]20:12
BUGabundowrong link ehe20:13
BUGabundopitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gui-ufw/+bug/39894520:13
ubottuUbuntu bug 398945 in gui-ufw "File "/usr/share/gufw/gufw.py", line 42, in <module>" [Undecided,New]20:13
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
radixso, uh, has anyone else received (private) responses to u-d-d posts from a guy named "Kevin Croissant" containing a link to a javascript hack which DoSes firefox while displaying extremely disturbing images?20:35
macoradix, i have not, but thank you for the warning20:52
=== robbiew-afk is now known as robbiew
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
kirklandseb128: around?21:57
seb128kirkland, yes21:57
kirklandseb128: hi, update-notifier question for you21:57
BUGabundohey kirkland21:58
kirklandseb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/217283/21:58
seb128kirkland, update-notifier is mvo's but sure if I can reply21:58
kirklandseb128: ah, right, i saw your name in the changelog recently, and mvo is not around ;-)21:59
kirklandBUGabundo: hang on a second21:59
kirklandseb128: i was about to commit that change to bzr21:59
kirklandseb128: i'd like to upload too, but i see that 0.86 is not yet uploaded to karmic21:59
kirklandseb128: so i was nervous about pushing21:59
BUGabundokirkland: don't bother. just waving o/22:00
kirklandah, hello22:00
seb128kirkland, better to ping mvo about it tomorrow or drop him an email22:01
kirklandseb128: okay, thanks22:01
seb128kirkland, looking at the source update-mot.d doesn't seem used at all by update-notifier22:01
kirklandseb128: i thought you guys might be off for Bastille day tomorrow22:02
kirklandseb128: yes, it should be22:02
kirklandseb128: in the links22:02
seb128kirkland, I am, german guys and mvo are not ;-)22:02
majikmanare there plans to modify tomcat so that it doesn't log to syslog?22:02
kirklandseb128: doh!  sorry22:02
seb128kirkland, nothing to be sorry about ;-) you will probably get a reply from mvo tomorrow22:02
kirklandseb128: cool, thanks.22:03
davmor2guys due to kms and intel the text for ejecting cd press enter to continue is tiny.  Is this a set font size?22:19
BUGabundoseb128: still here? did something change on gnome for karmic, not allowing apples to be dragged with mouse middle click?22:23
seb128BUGabundo, there is new tarballs every 3 weeks for GNOME I expect that something changed yes, we would not bother doing 60 uploads of nothing22:25
seb128BUGabundo, I just moved the clock and the wcnk applet there, works correctly22:26
seb128the menus too22:26
BUGabundoseb128: not for me! let me find some one else22:26
seb128did you lock those applets?22:26
sebnerseb128: don't forget to re-enable gnome tetris as clutter 0.9.x is now in karmic :P22:27
BUGabundoseb128: yes they are unlocked22:27
seb128sebner, ah ah, it's far to be on the CD though22:28
NCommanderpitti, ping, has there been any issues w/ the apport-retracer on karmic recently?22:35
chrisccoulsonseb128 - this g-c-c update is a pain ;)22:35
BUGabundoseb128: seems I can't confirme it on another system... but it does happen on this one :(22:35
chrisccoulsonit doesn't build without libgnomekbd from git22:35
seb128chrisccoulson, I'm sure you can win over it ;-)22:36
chrisccoulsonmost probably. i might not get it finished tonight though ;)22:36
seb128NCommander, what sort of issue?22:36
chrisccoulsonshall we wait for a libgnomekbd tarball or do you want me to package it from git?22:37
NCommanderseb128, Can't exec "/tmp/libssl0.9.8.config.87075": Exec format error at /usr/share/perl/5.10/IPC/Open3.pm line 168. and issues with update-alternatives22:37
NCommanderseb128, same issue popped up on both powerpc and armel, so I'm kinda curious to figure out what's going on22:37
seb128NCommander, well the retracers only use apport-retrace which meanwhile use a chroot22:38
BUGabundoseb128: I got this on identica: "jacob: @bugabundo Working only on icons and the notification area. Everything else is stuck, even though unlocked. "22:38
seb128not sure about that issue22:38
NCommanderseb128, I think its a bad interaction between fakechroot, the auto-update, and karmic22:39
seb128could be22:39
seb128needs debugging I guess22:39
NCommanderI was hoping the same issue would pop up on i386/amd64, but that doesn't seem to be the case22:39
seb128chrisccoulson, I've no strong opinion, patch backport, git snapshot22:41
seb128chrisccoulson, I can try pinging upstream when he's around but that's not the case right now22:41
chrisccoulsonseb128 - no problem. i'll put the g-c-c update to one side for now and work on the gnome-session one22:41
=== j_ack_ is now known as j_ack
BUGabundoseb128: another user just confirmed it again. should I open a bug and upstream it ?22:43
directhexTheMuso, gabaug's got a11y working in banshee's infamous listview :)22:44
BUGabundoseb128: ok22:44
seb128BUGabundo, on what applets do you get the issue?22:44
BUGabundomost of them to me22:44
BUGabundobut the some do work22:44
BUGabundognome-monitor, netspeed, diskmounter22:44
seb128some standard ones?22:45
BUGabundodoesn't are among thes ones don't work22:45
seb128ie menus, mixer, wnck, clock, weather, etc?22:45
BUGabundotime, menu, work22:45
BUGabundofunny.... bright doesn't ,but xkills does work22:45
seb128open a gnome-panel bug if you want, upstream would be better if you can open it there too22:46
BUGabundoI can22:47
BUGabundoI will22:47
BUGabundoseb128: should I file upstream on 2.27 snapshot or 2.26, cause gnome-panel is still 2.26.3?22:59
ubottuUbuntu bug 399031 in gnome-panel "some applets are not draggble with mouse middle click" [Undecided,New]23:00
seb128BUGabundo, there is no 2.27 so 2.2623:00
BUGabundognome-media:  Installed:
BUGabundoseb128: and I see it on the dropdown list on bugzilla.g.o23:02
seb128BUGabundo, gnome-media for applets?23:02
BUGabundoeven my about says so Version: 2.27.323:02
BUGabundoseb128: no... for gnome23:02
seb128BUGabundo, you want gnome-panel23:02
seb128well gnome-media has 2.27 tarballs23:02
seb128gnome-panel doesn't23:02
BUGabundoseb128: upstream http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58848823:04
ubottuGnome bug 588488 in Panel "some applets are not draggble with mouse middle click" [Normal,Unconfirmed]23:04
seb128BUGabundo, thanks23:04
BUGabundoseb128: np23:07
TheMusodirecthex: Great. I am not a banshee user.23:26
TheMusodirecthex: But good news nonetheless.23:27
directhexTheMuso, well, yes. banshee's had a11y problems for years23:28
directhexwhich doesn't cause *me* issues, but i hear some folks without perfect vision like to use computers...23:28
macoalso, nose prints on the screen aren't so fun :P23:30
ionmaco: I officially have a nose print on my screen. I had to test whether the touchscreen can be controlled with a nose. :-P23:37
macohaha...i was referring to my tendency over time to get closer and closer to my screen. if i dont stop and notice that i'm only 2 inches away...im sure one day i'll smack right into it23:38
slangasekpitti: where did hal's Recommends: smartdimmer go?  component-mismatches wants to demote smartdimmer now23:41
ajmitchslangasek: a MIR needs to be filled out for any package recommended by something in main, right?23:42
slangasekajmitch: yes23:42
ajmitchthanks, I think I'll change it to suggests for a bit instead23:43

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!