[01:38]  * mneptok stares at Channy
[01:40] <Paddy_NI> hey piracy discussion on #ubuntu
[01:40] <mneptok> Paddy_NI: anything we can help you with?
[01:41] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: no.. not you
[01:41] <Paddy_NI> kthxbye
[01:41] <mneptok> Paddy_NI: is that all?
[01:41] <Paddy_NI> Are there any ops here apart from mneptok?
[01:41] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: welcome to ignore :D
[01:42] <mneptok>  /ignore'ing ops is a dangerous gambit
[01:42] <mneptok> (as is the veiled threat of 
[01:43] <mneptok> "i'm logging you"
[01:43] <Paddy_NI> May I speak to an channel operator apart from mneptok please?
[01:44] <nalioth> ctmjr: is there something we can help you with?
[01:45] <ctmjr> well was going to ask how to get a cloak but found it myself  i ask in freenode correct?
[01:45] <nalioth> for an unaffiliated cloak?
[01:45] <ctmjr> yes for now
[01:46] <nalioth> saved you a trip  :p
[01:46] <ctmjr> thank you very much
[01:46] <nalioth> you're welcome
[01:48] <mneptok> nalioth: care to see what Paddy_NI has to say other than reporting !ot? if nothing else is on his agenda, it might be good to remind him of the no idling policy. apparently, i am /ignore'd.
[01:48]  * mneptok will be nice and not remind him of the policy while on /ignore
[01:50] <nalioth> Paddy_NI: 1247446108 19:48 <+mneptok> nalioth: care to see what Paddy_NI has to say other than reporting !ot? if nothing else is on his agenda, it might be good to remind him of the no idling policy. apparently, i am ignore'd.
[01:51]  * mneptok tips his hat toward TX
[01:51] <Paddy_NI> nalioth: apparently piracy is okay now
[01:51] <nalioth> Paddy_NI: did you have anything else?
[01:52] <Paddy_NI> nalioth: apparently not.. pity people dont know how to do their jobs any more
[01:52] <mneptok> my "job"
[01:53] <mneptok> apparently people don;t have the sense not to tell other people how to do their jobs any more.
[01:53] <nalioth> one man's "piracy" is another mans "what the devil are you talking about, sir?"
[01:54] <mneptok> yarrr.
[01:54] <mneptok> me hearty.
[01:59] <mneptok> 18:58 < th0r> xorso: if you changed the boot order the computer would read the cd first and not hang on the hd, but the net nazi doesn't like that idea
[01:59] <mneptok> 18:58 < Paddy_NI> th0r: whom is the net nazi?
[01:59] <mneptok> 18:59 < mneptok> Paddy_NI: please do not feed the troll. and please acknowledge that you have read my request.
[02:00] <mneptok> i suspect he will not answer. putting ops on /ignore is a bad idea.
[02:00] <nalioth> yep
[02:00] <mneptok> i'll ban forward him here to correct his mistake. but i suspect someone else will have to explain why it's not a good idea.
[02:01] <nalioth> nah, he can talk to you
[02:01]  * nalioth hangs the ticket on mneptok's peg
[02:01] <tsimpson> not if he's on /ignore
[02:01] <nalioth> guess he'll just have to unignore . . .
[02:01] <tsimpson> :)
[02:02] <Madpilot> Paddy_NI has whiffed of troll before, IIRC. The name seems too familiar.
[02:03] <tsimpson> I think I recognise it from -ot, but not sure if that's a good or bad thing
[02:03] <mneptok> not sure if it's Paddy_EIRE
[02:04] <nalioth> unfortunately, it's quite similar to one of freenode's finest . . .
[02:04] <nalioth> an no, paddy_eire is not a troll
[02:04] <mneptok> agreed.
[02:04] <mneptok> and Paddy_EIRE wouldn't put me on /ignore
[02:04] <mneptok> (as much as he may want to)
[02:05] <tsimpson> I mean, I've seen it in -ot
[02:06] <mneptok> he's in -ot now
[02:06] <tsimpson> was yesterday (for me) too
[02:22] <tsimpson> goose: hi, can we help you?
[02:24] <tsimpson> goose: this is not #ubuntu, you have been forwarded here because of you attitude in #ubuntu
[02:25] <goose> how sweet; I'll be sure to modify my startup script as to reflect such
[02:26] <tsimpson> maybe someone should just change the forward to plain ban
[03:23] <elky_work> maybe not a troll, but certainly a pseudotroll
[05:15] <Flannel> !away > Kyon0`Away 
[06:33] <Flannel> no k train?
[06:34] <Flannel> Also, floodbots seem to not be banning victims
[06:34] <nalioth> Flannel: the train has already left
[06:35] <Flannel> So I can remove my ban?
[06:50] <nalioth> if you want to
[08:11] <Paddy_NI> Excuse me why have I been kicked from #ubuntu?
[08:13] <Paddy_NI> Could anyone tell me why I have been banned from #ubuntu ?
[08:14] <Paddy_NI> topyli: Are you here?
[08:18] <Madpilot> Paddy_NI, for /ignore on an op, far as I know
[08:18] <Paddy_NI> I am perfectly within my rights
[08:19] <Paddy_NI> there are many other ops that could have talked to me
[08:19] <Paddy_NI> the one that is not doing his job properly kicked me
[08:19] <Paddy_NI> rather *banned* me
[08:21] <Madpilot> hmm, reading the scrollback, there's also the feeding of trolls mentioned, but mostly the quasi-trollishness of /ignore mneptok 
[08:21] <Paddy_NI> there are no trolling I have the scroll back here
[08:21] <Paddy_NI> show me where I trolled
[08:22] <Madpilot> 18:58 < Paddy_NI> th0r: whom is the net nazi?
[08:22] <Madpilot> 18:59 < mneptok> Paddy_NI: please do not feed the troll. and please acknowledge that you have read my request.
[08:22] <Paddy_NI> Madpilot: yes.. as it was directed at me
[08:23] <Paddy_NI> Madpilot: so I got banned for that
[08:23] <Paddy_NI> I chose to ignore an op that was not doing his job properly.. If he could please get over this childish huff that would be great thanks
[08:23] <mneptok> 19:00 <+mneptok> 18:58 < th0r> xorso: if you changed the boot order the computer would read the cd first and not hang on the hd, but the net nazi doesn't like that idea
[08:24] <mneptok> NOT directed at Paddy_NI 
[08:24] <Madpilot> ah, you are still up
[08:24] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: yes it was.. 
[08:24] <Madpilot> you're xorso as well?
[08:24] <mneptok> Paddy_NI: your nick is not xorso. and even if it was, do not feed trolls.
[08:24] <mneptok> !feedthetroll
[08:24] <mneptok> we even have a factoid to that effect
[08:24] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: still not an excuse to ban me from the channel
[08:25] <Paddy_NI> and you banned me much later on
[08:25] <Paddy_NI> after the fact.
[08:25] <Paddy_NI> which shows a rather childish over use of power in my opinion
[08:25] <tsimpson> you say "I chose to ignore an op that was not doing his job properly", what is your interpretation of "not doing his job properly"?
[08:25] <mneptok> you were banned for not responding when i asked for an acknowledgment that you had read my request, and failed to do so.
[08:25] <Paddy_NI> there was piracy discussion in the channel that he completely dismissed
[08:26] <mneptok> i asked people to stop. more than once.
[08:26] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: you may have asked another op
[08:26] <mneptok> that's as far as i chose to take it.
[08:26] <Paddy_NI> you knew I ignored you
[08:26] <mneptok> that was your decision. you live with the consequences of it.
[08:26] <tsimpson> it's not your place to decide what his "job" is
[08:27] <tsimpson> especially since ops are volunteers
[08:27] <Paddy_NI> This is really very biased.. is piracy not against the rules of the channel.. and is it not the ops responsibility to deal with it
[08:27] <tsimpson> if you think there was some major transgression, the you should report it
[08:27] <Paddy_NI> to whom
[08:27] <tsimpson> rather than just /ignore the op
[08:27] <Madpilot> Paddy_NI, given that you were right in the middle of the piracy discussion, you're not being too convincing right now
[08:28] <Paddy_NI> Madpilot: explain that
[08:28] <tsimpson> here or to the mailing list
[08:28] <Paddy_NI> I was telling them to stop
[08:28] <tsimpson> or the IRCC mailing list
[08:28] <Flannel> Paddy_NI: It's not our job to find someone who you will listen to; if you don't listen when asked, it's a problem, regardless of who asked you.
[08:28] <Madpilot> Paddy_NI, you were getting right into !feedthetroll territory
[08:29] <Paddy_NI> I guess so.. but nothing was being done about it for quite a while Madpilot I was just showing a little initiative
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:37 < Paddy_NI> Reitz: simply telephone dell then
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:37 < Paddy_NI> gogeta: yes.. it is
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:37 < Paddy_NI> gogeta: read the eula instead of making up your own rules
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:37 < Paddy_NI> it is
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:37 < Paddy_NI> and it should stop
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:38 < Paddy_NI> gogeta: not to pirate it though
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:38 < Paddy_NI> gogeta: your morals are very loose
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:38 < gogeta> Paddy_NI: downloading a iso is not pirate unless you dont own it
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:38 < Paddy_NI> gogeta: and he does not.
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:38 < mneptok> gogeta Paddy_NI: drop it, please
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:39 < Madpilot> gogeta, Paddy_NI, Reitz, whoever else - #ubuntu-offtopic or ##windows, please. Not here.
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:39 < Paddy_NI> Reitz: what does linux have to do with pirating windows?
[08:29] <mneptok> 18:40 < Paddy_NI> Reitz: telephone dell and I *guarantee* that you will not get a rar file ;)
[08:29] <mneptok> that looks like a bit more than telling people to stop
[08:30] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: I was trying to reason with them 
[08:30] <mneptok> and that looks like a bit more than telling people to stop
[08:30] <Madpilot> two or three minutes is not really 'quite a while' when #ubuntu is busy, either
[08:31] <Paddy_NI> well however I find the ban completely unnecessary especially since it only just took place a little while ago
[08:31] <mneptok> i banned you much earlier.
[08:31] <mneptok> then i banned you a few minutes ago when your hostmask changed.
[08:32] <mneptok> i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not deliberately evading.
[08:32] <Paddy_NI> Okay is there any chance that the ban can be lifted.. as the main error I made was to ignore you
[08:32] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: no I am not deliberately evading
[08:33] <mneptok> placing ops on /ignore is dangerous, as you have discovered.
[08:33] <Paddy_NI> Well I guess I learned the hard way
[08:34] <mneptok> telling me my what my "job" is does not make me happy. the veiled threat of "i'm logging this" makes me even less happy. i'd like to be happy.
[08:37] <mneptok> the ban is removed.
[08:37] <mneptok> please play nicely.
[08:37] <Paddy_NI> mneptok: thank you, I apologise for my attitude earlier
[08:37] <mneptok> appreciated, but not necessary.
[08:37] <Paddy_NI> thanks
[14:11] <bazhang> any ideas who masterbot was yesterday? had to kill my xchat session to escape from the dcc sends it was trying to give me
[14:30] <nalioth> bazhang: not sure why, it flooded itself off almost instantly
[14:31] <bazhang> nalioth, thanks :)
[14:35] <nalioth> as far as i saw, it only sent 3 DCC attempts
[14:36] <bazhang> that was what I got; was away so could not cancel quickly enough
[14:37]  * nalioth reserves his opinion on xchat
[14:37] <nalioth> you DO have it set to not accept DCC automatically, right?
[14:37] <bazhang> now I do :)
[14:38]  * nalioth facepalms
[14:44] <Pici> Is the default setting to allow them through?
[14:45] <bazhang> yep
[14:45] <Tm_T> Pici: allow AND run too!
[14:45] <bazhang> on xchat at least
[14:45] <Pici> Yuck, thats quite a bit of a security hole imo
[14:45] <Tm_T> Pici: FYI, that run part was a joke, I hope
[14:46] <Pici> Tm_T: I hope too
[15:11] <Pici> odd
[15:25] <bazhang> policy on bots? if silent leave alone, or just kick if permission not asked? toxbot_ is not responding to PM or communication in channel
[15:26] <Tm_T> if it is verified to be bot, remove with point to bot policy
[15:27] <Tm_T> IMO
[15:27] <nalioth> yep
[15:27] <bazhang> two of them in fact toxbot_ and toxbot__
[15:27] <nalioth> "all bots need approval"
[15:29] <bazhang> and Mystic as well
[15:35] <nalioth> yeah, run 'em all out
[17:34] <jussi01> Ladies and Gents, we just wanted to run over the  "Ubuntu operator expectations" quickly, as it is a good thing to keep refreshed on what is expected of you.
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+Amaranth ] [+Gary     ] [+mneptok   ] [+stew       ] [ fdoving ] [ ubot3    ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+bazhang  ] [+ikonia   ] [+nalioth   ] [+SWAT       ] [ JanC    ] [ ubot4    ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+christel ] [+jpds     ] [+Pici      ] [+Tm_T       ] [ jdong   ] [ ubottu   ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+Dave2    ] [+jrib     ] [+pleia2    ] [+tomaw      ] [ jdong_  ] [ ubuntulog]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+Daviey   ] [+jussi01  ] [+popey     ] [+tonyyarusso] [ juliux  ] [ Ursinha  ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+DLange   ] [+jussi01_ ] [+Pricey    ] [+topyli     ] [ Nafallo ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+elky     ] [+Mamarok  ] [+robotgeek ] [+tritium    ] [ Riddell ]
[17:34] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+elky_work] [+Martinp23] [+Seeker`   ] [+tsimpson   ] [ ryanakca]
[17:35] <jussi01> [07/13/09 19:27:00] [+Flannel  ] [+Mez      ] [+SportChick] [+vorian     ] [ ubot2   ]
[17:35] <jussi01> oh dear, that wasnt supposed to paste
[17:35] <popey> got everyone listening though, no doubt
[17:35] <topyli> at least you have an audience :)
[17:35] <bazhang> hehe
[17:35] <jussi01> ANyway, I now hand over to nalioth to continue
[17:36] <stew> one thing that is expected of you, is to know how to use copy/paste :P
[17:36] <topyli> we're doing a podcast in 25min here though
[17:36] <nalioth> we are not like any other operating system / distro
[17:36]  * jussi01 hugs stew
[17:36] <nalioth> we should not act like the others here, either
[17:36] <jrib> eh?
[17:36] <Nafallo> oh hai!
[17:37] <jrib> leave bots that don't talk alone :/
[17:37] <nalioth> to wit, when there are troublemakers, we should keep a "ladder of resolution" in mind when dealing with them, and our first interaction should be a PM 
[17:37] <nalioth> a PM with "this is why your behaviour is not acceptable" can sometimes turn a troublemaker into an asset
[17:38] <jrib> honestly, I can't remember the last time that has worked for me
[17:38] <nalioth> if the PM doesn't serve to mitigate the bad behaviour, a limited +q or a /remove should be used
[17:39] <nalioth> kickbans should only be used as a last resort - never a first response
[17:39] <nalioth> jrib: back in the day, it worked wonderfully
[17:40] <nalioth> anyway, we've gotten away from "the kinder, gentler folks" that we are here on the irc, and it's not pretty  :(
[17:41] <nalioth> any questionss or comments?
[17:42] <jussi01> No one has comments? 
[17:43] <nalioth> freenode isn't an "old school" network, and neither should Ubuntu be an "old school" community
[17:44] <bazhang> PM idea has merit ; if they are capable of suasion in cases like ifailatlife and one other yesterday where they are flooding huge lines of nonsense though, not so much
[17:45] <nalioth> the PM idea works.  we used it to good effect in the early days
[17:45]  * Amaranth wonders what early days nalioth is remembering
[17:45] <bazhang> sure it does, when they enter right off the bat with obscenities and huge floods though not so much
[17:46] <Pici> We also asked that people start using it again about 6 months ago, but it has fell into disuse again. I admit, I'm one of the people who stopped doing it as well,.
[17:47] <jussi01> bazhang: there is a guide to when to use certain types of bans on the operator guidelines page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines ) I trust you have read it?
[17:48] <bazhang> jussi01, yes I have, will read it once more thanks
[17:48]  * Amaranth hasn't read it :P
[17:48] <Amaranth> oh, that page used to have another name, didn't it?
[17:48] <jussi01> Anyway, As I mentioned before, the purpose of this little discussion was to refresh, and remind. :)
[17:49] <Pici> Don't be afraid to ask here too if you aren't sure whether a kick or ban or whatever was necessary.
[17:51] <jussi01> The other operators and the IRC council are here to help you if needed. sometimes its best to talk it out, to gain a little more objectivity.
[17:53] <topyli> well, i'm all for ubuntu being extra nice, including the ops
[17:53] <bazhang> they are nice already
[18:21] <Mez> bazhang: depends who you ask :D
[18:21] <bazhang> Mez, true :)
[18:22] <bazhang> those being banned in -ot especially (power mad operators!!!1)
[19:32] <Pici> ....
[19:32] <Pici> ....
[19:33] <Pici> come on!
[19:33] <bazhang> heh
[19:33] <Pici> I messaged him...
[19:58]  * genii sips
[20:05]  * genii hands jussi01 a coffee
[20:19]  * jussi01 waves, and politely declines the coffee... its almost bedtime
[20:22] <Tm_T> jussi01: thanks for noticing (:
[20:56]  * mneptok reads backscroll
[20:56] <mneptok> i'd be interested to know what prompts that reminder
[21:04] <ikonia> just read the reminder, seems fair enough, I assume it's just common sense stuff, if a guy jumps in with an obvious troll quieting him before talking to him is appropriate (I assume)
[21:16] <Ampelbein> hi there. you might want to watch for "imgoofygoober", he asked some troll-ish question in #ubuntu-classroom.
[21:17] <Ampelbein> i did not want to answer him because then he might just leave, but who knows what he is about to do.
[21:32] <ikonia> Ampelbein: I've not got any power in there but I'll have a look in 
[21:33] <ikonia> Ampelbein: sometimes people can be "talked down" if they become a problem
[21:33] <Ampelbein> ikonia: seems he's a one-time troll only.
[21:34] <Ampelbein> ikonia: in my experience, arguing with those kind is complete waste of time.
[21:34] <ikonia> Ampelbein: does look it, but lets keep an eye out, thanks for the heads up
[21:34] <ikonia> Ampelbein: totally agree
[21:34] <Ampelbein> ikonia: ok, have fun with him in case he wakes up ;-)
[21:34] <ikonia> no problem
[21:34] <ikonia> thank you
[22:20] <ikonia> delt
[22:20] <jrib> that was actually kind of funny
[22:20] <ikonia> !staff | someguy1 targeted DCC exploit
[22:23] <jrib> should have muted him on his failed cat
[22:24] <ikonia> jrib: I was too slow
[22:24] <stew> 17:20 -!- someguy1 [n=mooncup@static-72-64-146-9.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [K-lined]
[22:24] <ikonia> ahh
[22:24] <ikonia> I'll remove the ban then