[10:20] <mac_v> mpt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/388633/comments/8
[10:20] <mac_v> maybe you could comment there itself
[10:48] <mpt> mac_v, done
[10:52] <mac_v> ah... 
[10:58] <SiDi> MacSlow: woot, nice blur :)
[10:59] <MacSlow> SiDi, brought to you with a lot of pain :)
[10:59] <SiDi> hehe i can imagine it's not been easy
[10:59] <SiDi> congratulations :D
[10:59] <SiDi> btw i think i saw a sync notification with text in the test schemes
[10:59] <MacSlow> so?
[10:59] <SiDi> does that mean i could use the sync notification's progress bar for a media player notification where the progress bar would be the advancement of the song ? :P
[11:00] <MacSlow> argl no! 
[11:00] <MacSlow> :)
[11:00] <SiDi> :p
[11:00] <SiDi> now i can harras my family with math formulas via ssh, its great
[11:06] <mac_v> MacSlow: there have been users complaining that the notify-osd bubble is not obvious on a dark background , how about having a dim grey 1px border? wouldnt that solve the visibility a bit?
[11:07] <SiDi> mac_v: no :P
[11:07] <SiDi> I think a border wouldnt look sexy at all
[11:07] <SiDi> if its not readable for them they-should-be-able-to-change-the-colour
[11:07] <mac_v> 1px is not a border!
[11:07] <SiDi> yes it is
[11:08] <mac_v> its just to differentiate the bubble from a dark background
[11:08] <SiDi> anyway other users complain they cant read white text on black without massive visual effort, and this has to be fixed :)
[11:08] <mac_v> SiDi: baby steps ;p
[11:08] <SiDi> that'd be a fairly old baby then
[11:09] <MacSlow> mac_v, SiDi: There will probably be some gconf-keys for background-, text- and text-dropshadow-color
[11:09] <mac_v> \o/
[11:09] <SiDi> i hope you remove this probably word :D
[11:10] <SiDi> MacSlow: i'll begin my xfconf port soon so i might in the same time add code for this, ill tell you if i managed to do it
[11:10] <MacSlow> the nasty thing about this will be the schema/autotools mayhem
[11:10]  * MacSlow is not looking forward to this
[12:35]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[13:06] <mac_v> mpt: haha another dup of the same issue, ;p > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/391404 , http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28266448/Captura_de_tela-Abrir.png ,  IMO this does not look pretty!
[13:54] <mac_v> mpt : i'v done a mockup , "you can scroll this!" visual hint mockup> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29043629/Mockup.png still not convinced?
[13:55] <SiDi> isnt it possible in gtk to differentiate the prelight one and the active one ?
[13:57] <mac_v> SiDi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388633/comments/6
[13:57] <mac_v> its not the decision about the prelight, but the present option needs to be the centre
[13:58] <SiDi> mac_v: if you can have prelight and selected differently
[13:58] <SiDi> you can put the "current" value at the top
[13:58] <SiDi> it'll have the "selected" color and be recognisable
[13:58] <mac_v> SiDi: i suggested that also , finally we have similar thoughts , ;p
[13:58]  * SiDi hides
[13:59] <mac_v> SiDi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388633/comments/7
[14:02] <SiDi> :)
[14:02] <SiDi> that was a bit rude :p
[14:02] <mac_v> which?
[14:03] <mac_v> my comment?
[14:03] <SiDi> yeh
[14:03] <SiDi> But i'm nonely better than you for that :p
[14:04] <mpt> mac_v, sorry, I don't understand what that mockup is showing
[14:05] <mpt> partly because I can't see where the menu started, perhaps
[14:05] <mac_v> the scroll arrows
[14:05] <mpt> Those scroll pseudobuttons that GTK uses inside the menu are really quite ugly
[14:05] <mpt> They don't behave like buttons, so they really shouldn't look like buttons
[14:06] <mac_v> mpt: but we have to do with what we have :(
[14:06] <mpt> Well, no, if you're proposing a change in appearance, you can do that for any part of the menu :-)
[14:07] <mac_v> SiDi: i wasnt trying to be rude :(
[14:09] <SiDi> mac_v: i didnt say you tried to
[14:10] <SiDi> what happens is that often when you report a bug you believe you are right (im the first in that case and sometimes i AM rude, but i notice later)
[14:10] <SiDi> so you explain why things _have to_ change instead of stating that they _could_ change
[14:10] <SiDi> i dont know if im very clear :P
[14:10] <mac_v> mpt: a better mockup from bugzilla>  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=47137&action=view
[14:10] <mac_v> SiDi: ;p
[14:11] <mpt> mac_v, yes, exactly
[14:12] <mac_v> mpt: the one on the right is better, and a patch for it exists!
[14:12] <mpt> Here's a scrolling menu on the Mac: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/userexperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/XHIGMenus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-BABBBABH
[14:12] <mpt> and on Windows: http://www.prof-uis.com/prof-uis/feature-tour/tour_menu_bar.aspx#Figure7
[14:13] <mpt> though I don't think that Windows one is particularly native
[14:13] <mpt> It looks very Office-XP-ish
[14:16] <mac_v> mpt: the apple one is better, but i dont understand what you mean? the bugzilla mockup still doesnt do the trick? when a better solution exist for now ,why are we searching for an elusive best solution?
[14:17] <mpt> mac_v, the Bugzilla mockup is what I had in mind in my first comment in that bug report.
[14:17] <mpt> (Though I didn't know there was a mockup of it.)
[14:18] <mac_v> they also have a patch
[14:21] <SiDi> mpt mac_v as far as i know windows doesnt have native comboboxentries at all
[14:21] <mpt> SiDi, true, Windows has "drop-down listboxes" instead, but I was looking more at how the OSes show menu scrolling in general
[14:23] <mpt> (The name "ComboBoxEntry" is a monumental confusion on the part of whichever GTK developer gave it that name. A combo box is already a combination of a menu and a text entry. That's where the "combo" comes from.)
[14:23] <mac_v> SiDi: see proper naming is needed ;p
[14:24] <mpt> Ah, here's a more native-looking scrollable menu in Windows: http://vbnet.mvps.org/images/gfx/menu/menuscroll.gif
[14:24] <mac_v> mpt: do you want to re-think that gtk bug? or is it still invalid
[14:24] <SiDi> Lets rename it to ScrollableListThatMakesAGoodConversationSubjectForAyatana then
[14:27] <SiDi> the main problem is filling this white space, right ?
[14:27] <mpt> mac_v, I have no new facts with which to rethink it. :-P I can see how it could be argued either way, and the GTK developers have chosen one way, and you prefer the other.
[14:27] <SiDi> Cause actually removing it would make it a loss of vertical space when you do need to scroll :/
[14:28] <mac_v> mpt: ok.
[14:28] <SiDi> What about appending the last items on the top empty space with a big vertical separator between beginning and end ?
[14:28] <SiDi> and make it possible to scroll to top to reach the bottom faster ? (i wonder how _confusing_ this could be for users, but at least the space would be exploited :/)
[14:33] <mpt> That would be ... strange
[14:35] <SiDi> ok, lets put it in the "stupid ideas" box. :D
[14:36] <SiDi> mpt: mind having a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/UpdateIssues and commenting it please ?
[14:36] <SiDi> mac_v: you didnt add the updates on login/logout to it btw, i was expecting you to do so :D
[14:38] <mpt> SiDi, thanks, I'm planning to write a design spec for handling updates and this will be good source material
[14:39] <SiDi> i need to detail it a little more though but i'm being lazy :)
[14:41] <mac_v> SiDi:  i think the better way is to do in-session updates and not disturb the user > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/397324
[14:42] <SiDi> mac_v: can you please add this as issue #5 on the UpdateIssues page above and add your solution for it ?
[14:42] <mac_v> SiDi: sure... BTW what is issue #5?
[14:42] <SiDi> the issue you describe in your bug report :)
[14:42] <mac_v> oh... ok
[14:43] <SiDi> ie. "it MUST be restarted" statement when it should be "changes will be applied after a restart"
[14:45] <SiDi> We also need to add another issue for apps that do need to be restarted after an update and find a decent compromise for these
[14:45] <SiDi> (or remove firefox from the repo and close eyes on the problem :X)
[14:51] <SiDi> i get instant answers from ubottu in our xubuntu chans
[14:51] <SiDi> wrong channel ~
[14:53] <ScottK> SiDi: For Firefox it must be restarted or it won't work.  Must is right.
[14:53] <SiDi> ScottK: indeed
[14:53] <SiDi> the idea is to tell the user BEFORE it screws his FF
[14:54] <SiDi> and provide an option to automatically delay the installation of those packages and those that depend on them, on session close
[15:01] <mac_v> SiDi: why do you insist on NO TOC?
[15:01] <mac_v> its better to navigate the page
[15:02] <SiDi> mac_v: it looks ugly. :D
[15:02] <SiDi> put one if you want its ok ;)
[15:02] <SiDi> dont put one with an ubuntu-art icon though
[15:02] <SiDi> and remove the float=right too imo
[15:02] <mac_v> ;p , i forgot to remove it the last time!
[15:03] <bratsche_> Morning!
[15:04] <SiDi> hi
[15:10] <djsiegel_> danrabbit: can you please s/elebuntu/humanity ?
[15:10] <djsiegel_> and move the wiki page?
[15:26] <jblount_> MacSlow: When you get a free second, I'd love to chat with you about notify-osd via ssh -Y
[15:27] <MacSlow> jblount_, not this week I'm afraid... best in such a case is email me
[15:27] <jblount_> MacSlow: Will do. Thanks!
[15:49] <mac_v> mpt: oops! i didnt realize i missed a word in #5! it is actually! "Further evidence of" i'll correct it